Was Zhen Jiu Da Cheng - Now NanJing

[Guest guest]

Dr. Kramer,

 

Thank you for the reference!

 

I know him - he's excellent in stems and branches NeiJing style.

 

:0)

 

Thomas

 

 

fre, 13 03 2009 kl. 20:23 +0000, skrev Dr Kramer:

> You should look into Peter vanKervel in the Netherlands.

> Rick

>

> Dr Kramer

> 773-747-8798

>

>

> Thomas Sørensen <>

>

> Fri, 13 Mar 2009 20:58:22

> <Chinese Medicine >

> Re: Zhen Jiu Da Cheng

>

>

> Z'ev,

>

> > My main teacher and inspiration, Michael Broffman of Pine Street

> > Foundation, San Anselmo, Ca., bases his entire practice on the Nan

> > Jing, including herbal medicine, dietary counseling, acumoxa, and

> > lifestyle recommendations. He largely works with complex disorders.

> > Basically what he does (and I am slowly trying to do over the

> years)

> > is uses the difficult issues as templates to apply to the broad

> > palate

> > of medicine and health, building diagnostic and treatment

> strategies

> > on the principles contained within.

>

> I should tour the States for a bit to learn.... There are no real

> authorities on NanJing theory in Europe it seems - definitely no one

> in

> denmark, so get my main inspiration from different practitioners on

> my

> yearly trips to Japan.

>

>

> > An e-mail rendering would be

> > impossible, but what I will do is give a short e-mail example in my

> > next posting.

>

>

> That would be great :0) And Btw during the past couple of years your

> posts and article(s) in the Lantern have been of excellent help and

> inspiration to me Z'ev - thanks a bunch.

>

>

>

> > To quote Michael: " the Nan Jing is an evolving blueprint for how

> > Chinese medicine has developed through the generations of

> > practitioners. It starts with a process of pattern recognition that

> > ultimately leads the practitioner to a personal language of pulses

> > and

> > what they mean " .

>

>

> That's very beautifully put :0)

>

> :0)

>

> Thomas

>

> --

> Althea Akupunktur

> Albanigade 23A, kld.

> 5000 Odense C

>

> Tlf.: 31 25 92 26

> http://www.ditlivditpotentiale.dk

>

> RAB: 2006059

> CVR: 27322646

>

> Frøslev Mollerup Sparekasse

> Reg.: 9133

> Konto: 2050409

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

While he doesn't go into the nanjing by name he does seem to propose the same

connections and ideas. Did you also learn from him?

Rick

Dr Kramer

773-747-8798

 

 

Thomas Sørensen <>

 

Fri, 13 Mar 2009 21:50:19

<Chinese Medicine >

Re: Was Zhen Jiu Da Cheng - Now NanJing

 

 

Dr. Kramer,

 

Thank you for the reference!

 

I know him - he's excellent in stems and branches NeiJing style.

 

:0)

 

Thomas

 

 

fre, 13 03 2009 kl. 20:23 +0000, skrev Dr Kramer:

> You should look into Peter vanKervel in the Netherlands.

> Rick

>

> Dr Kramer

> 773-747-8798

>

>

> Thomas Sørensen <>

>

> Fri, 13 Mar 2009 20:58:22

> <Chinese Medicine >

> Re: Zhen Jiu Da Cheng

>

>

> Z'ev,

>

> > My main teacher and inspiration, Michael Broffman of Pine Street

> > Foundation, San Anselmo, Ca., bases his entire practice on the Nan

> > Jing, including herbal medicine, dietary counseling, acumoxa, and

> > lifestyle recommendations. He largely works with complex disorders.

> > Basically what he does (and I am slowly trying to do over the

> years)

> > is uses the difficult issues as templates to apply to the broad

> > palate

> > of medicine and health, building diagnostic and treatment

> strategies

> > on the principles contained within.

>

> I should tour the States for a bit to learn.... There are no real

> authorities on NanJing theory in Europe it seems - definitely no one

> in

> denmark, so get my main inspiration from different practitioners on

> my

> yearly trips to Japan.

>

>

> > An e-mail rendering would be

> > impossible, but what I will do is give a short e-mail example in my

> > next posting.

>

>

> That would be great :0) And Btw during the past couple of years your

> posts and article(s) in the Lantern have been of excellent help and

> inspiration to me Z'ev - thanks a bunch.

>

>

>

> > To quote Michael: " the Nan Jing is an evolving blueprint for how

> > Chinese medicine has developed through the generations of

> > practitioners. It starts with a process of pattern recognition that

> > ultimately leads the practitioner to a personal language of pulses

> > and

> > what they mean " .

>

>

> That's very beautifully put :0)

>

> :0)

>

> Thomas

>

> --

> Althea Akupunktur

> Albanigade 23A, kld.

> 5000 Odense C

>

> Tlf.: 31 25 92 26

> http://www.ditlivditpotentiale.dk

>

> RAB: 2006059

> CVR: 27322646

>

> Frøslev Mollerup Sparekasse

> Reg.: 9133

> Konto: 2050409

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Joan Duveen, who also happens to be from the Netherlands is also worth

mentioning. Aren't the Danes close neighbours with the Dutch?

 

 

 

Simon

 

 

 

Chinese Medicine

 

Fri, 13 Mar 2009 21:50:19 +0100

Re: Was Zhen Jiu Da Cheng - Now NanJing

 

 

 

 

 

Dr. Kramer,

 

Thank you for the reference!

 

I know him - he's excellent in stems and branches NeiJing style.

 

:0)

 

Thomas

 

fre, 13 03 2009 kl. 20:23 +0000, skrev Dr Kramer:

> You should look into Peter vanKervel in the Netherlands.

> Rick

>

> Dr Kramer

> 773-747-8798

>

>

> Thomas Sørensen <>

>

> Fri, 13 Mar 2009 20:58:22

> <Chinese Medicine >

> Re: Zhen Jiu Da Cheng

>

>

> Z'ev,

>

> > My main teacher and inspiration, Michael Broffman of Pine Street

> > Foundation, San Anselmo, Ca., bases his entire practice on the Nan

> > Jing, including herbal medicine, dietary counseling, acumoxa, and

> > lifestyle recommendations. He largely works with complex disorders.

> > Basically what he does (and I am slowly trying to do over the

> years)

> > is uses the difficult issues as templates to apply to the broad

> > palate

> > of medicine and health, building diagnostic and treatment

> strategies

> > on the principles contained within.

>

> I should tour the States for a bit to learn.... There are no real

> authorities on NanJing theory in Europe it seems - definitely no one

> in

> denmark, so get my main inspiration from different practitioners on

> my

> yearly trips to Japan.

>

>

> > An e-mail rendering would be

> > impossible, but what I will do is give a short e-mail example in my

> > next posting.

>

>

> That would be great :0) And Btw during the past couple of years your

> posts and article(s) in the Lantern have been of excellent help and

> inspiration to me Z'ev - thanks a bunch.

>

>

>

> > To quote Michael: " the Nan Jing is an evolving blueprint for how

> > Chinese medicine has developed through the generations of

> > practitioners. It starts with a process of pattern recognition that

> > ultimately leads the practitioner to a personal language of pulses

> > and

> > what they mean " .

>

>

> That's very beautifully put :0)

>

> :0)

>

> Thomas

>

> --

> Althea Akupunktur

> Albanigade 23A, kld.

> 5000 Odense C

>

> Tlf.: 31 25 92 26

> http://www.ditlivditpotentiale.dk

>

> RAB: 2006059

> CVR: 27322646

>

> Frøslev Mollerup Sparekasse

> Reg.: 9133

> Konto: 2050409

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Rick,

 

No I didn't learn from him, but a few of my patients who are also

acupuncturists are currently doing seminars with him and I am familiar

with his work.

 

His approach is really interesting and there's no doubt that he's i

excellent at what he does.

 

5E and stems and branches are tightly interwoven in the NeiJing and

since the NanJing is pure 5E it has some of that flavor as well. The

NanJing mentions stems and branches several places, however NanJing is

more about organizing functions in relation to each other from a more

microcosmical here-and-now point of view * whereas stems and branches

are more an explanation of how the macrocosm is the main arbiter in

developing our constitution and as such should be used in treatment by

deciding open points in treatment.

 

I have been playing around with stems and branches in a very small way

and find that - even with my very limited ability - it's quite accurate

in determining the constitution determined by past macrocosmical

influences.

 

The way I have experienced the use of stems and branches is that it has

a tendency to override the here and now - also in Japanese styles - in

favor of set patterns of the past. Whereas the NanJing is more oriented

to the fluidity of the moment. Of course both styles have both past and

present inherent in them, but their focus is different. I am a simple

pragmatic here-and-now kind of guy so NeiJing, stems and branches, and

for that matter (ShangHanLun) herbal therapy which have a much more

theoretical flavor to it are not really up my alley.

 

---

 

* This is my interpretation.... I also feel that NanJing is not a mere

commentary to the NeiJing, but a break with NeiJing theory in a huge way

moving needle therapy towards being more poetic, more artful and more

fluent in terms of physiology, pathology, diagnosis and treatment and

away from a more " if-this-symptom/sign-treat-like-this " approach which

is more characteristic for NeiJing, ShangHanLun and most other texts I

have read on CM.

 

But thanks again!

 

:0)

 

Thomas

 

 

fre, 13 03 2009 kl. 21:00 +0000, skrev Dr Kramer:

> While he doesn't go into the nanjing by name he does seem to propose

> the same connections and ideas. Did you also learn from him?

> Rick

> Dr Kramer

> 773-747-8798

>

>

> Thomas Sørensen <>

>

> Fri, 13 Mar 2009 21:50:19

> <Chinese Medicine >

> Re: Was Zhen Jiu Da Cheng - Now NanJing

>

>

> Dr. Kramer,

>

> Thank you for the reference!

>

> I know him - he's excellent in stems and branches NeiJing style.

>

> :0)

>

> Thomas

>

>

> fre, 13 03 2009 kl. 20:23 +0000, skrev Dr Kramer:

> > You should look into Peter vanKervel in the Netherlands.

> > Rick

> >

> > Dr Kramer

> > 773-747-8798

> >

> >

> > Thomas Sørensen <>

> >

> > Fri, 13 Mar 2009 20:58:22

> > <Chinese Medicine >

> > Re: Zhen Jiu Da Cheng

> >

> >

> > Z'ev,

> >

> > > My main teacher and inspiration, Michael Broffman of Pine Street

> > > Foundation, San Anselmo, Ca., bases his entire practice on the

> Nan

> > > Jing, including herbal medicine, dietary counseling, acumoxa, and

> > > lifestyle recommendations. He largely works with complex

> disorders.

> > > Basically what he does (and I am slowly trying to do over the

> > years)

> > > is uses the difficult issues as templates to apply to the broad

> > > palate

> > > of medicine and health, building diagnostic and treatment

> > strategies

> > > on the principles contained within.

> >

> > I should tour the States for a bit to learn.... There are no real

> > authorities on NanJing theory in Europe it seems - definitely no

> one

> > in

> > denmark, so get my main inspiration from different practitioners on

> > my

> > yearly trips to Japan.

> >

> >

> > > An e-mail rendering would be

> > > impossible, but what I will do is give a short e-mail example in

> my

> > > next posting.

> >

> >

> > That would be great :0) And Btw during the past couple of years

> your

> > posts and article(s) in the Lantern have been of excellent help and

> > inspiration to me Z'ev - thanks a bunch.

> >

> >

> >

> > > To quote Michael: " the Nan Jing is an evolving blueprint for how

> > > Chinese medicine has developed through the generations of

> > > practitioners. It starts with a process of pattern recognition

> that

> > > ultimately leads the practitioner to a personal language of

> pulses

> > > and

> > > what they mean " .

> >

> >

> > That's very beautifully put :0)

> >

> > :0)

> >

> > Thomas

> >

> > --

> > Althea Akupunktur

> > Albanigade 23A, kld.

> > 5000 Odense C

> >

> > Tlf.: 31 25 92 26

> > http://www.ditlivditpotentiale.dk

> >

> > RAB: 2006059

> > CVR: 27322646

> >

> > Frøslev Mollerup Sparekasse

> > Reg.: 9133

> > Konto: 2050409

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

Thomas,

I agree that Nan Jing is a very fluid approach to systems

dynamics in medicine, giving practitioners the tools to develop their

own treatment strategies with a strong focus on time. However, this

doesn't mean that the Shang Han Lun doesn't do this as well.

 

Hans Agren wrote an article published in a book by MIT press 20

years ago (Time, Science and Society in China and the West/The Study

of Time V) that argued that Shang Han Lun is based on linear

sequential time, and that both the Nei Jing and Nan Jing were based on

ying/resonance, a 'recognition of analogous patterns in different

settings. " . However, since studying Shang Han Lun in depth with

Arnaud Versluys, I don't see the two approaches as being dichotomous.

The Shang Han Lun is simply a practical, clinically based expression

of the theories of the Nei Jing.

 

 

On Mar 13, 2009, at 9:53 PM, Thomas Sørensen wrote:

 

> Rick,

>

> No I didn't learn from him, but a few of my patients who are also

> acupuncturists are currently doing seminars with him and I am familiar

> with his work.

>

> His approach is really interesting and there's no doubt that he's i

> excellent at what he does.

>

> 5E and stems and branches are tightly interwoven in the NeiJing and

> since the NanJing is pure 5E it has some of that flavor as well. The

> NanJing mentions stems and branches several places, however NanJing is

> more about organizing functions in relation to each other from a more

> microcosmical here-and-now point of view * whereas stems and branches

> are more an explanation of how the macrocosm is the main arbiter in

> developing our constitution and as such should be used in treatment by

> deciding open points in treatment.

>

> I have been playing around with stems and branches in a very small way

> and find that - even with my very limited ability - it's quite

> accurate

> in determining the constitution determined by past macrocosmical

> influences.

>

> The way I have experienced the use of stems and branches is that it

> has

> a tendency to override the here and now - also in Japanese styles - in

> favor of set patterns of the past. Whereas the NanJing is more

> oriented

> to the fluidity of the moment. Of course both styles have both past

> and

> present inherent in them, but their focus is different. I am a simple

> pragmatic here-and-now kind of guy so NeiJing, stems and branches, and

> for that matter (ShangHanLun) herbal therapy which have a much more

> theoretical flavor to it are not really up my alley.

>

> ---

>

> * This is my interpretation.... I also feel that NanJing is not a mere

> commentary to the NeiJing, but a break with NeiJing theory in a huge

> way

> moving needle therapy towards being more poetic, more artful and more

> fluent in terms of physiology, pathology, diagnosis and treatment and

> away from a more " if-this-symptom/sign-treat-like-this " approach which

> is more characteristic for NeiJing, ShangHanLun and most other texts I

> have read on CM.

>

> But thanks again!

>

> :0)

>

> Thomas

>

> fre, 13 03 2009 kl. 21:00 +0000, skrev Dr Kramer:

> > While he doesn't go into the nanjing by name he does seem to propose

> > the same connections and ideas. Did you also learn from him?

> > Rick

> > Dr Kramer

> > 773-747-8798

> >

> >

> > Thomas Sørensen <>

> >

> > Fri, 13 Mar 2009 21:50:19

> > <Chinese Medicine >

> > Re: Was Zhen Jiu Da Cheng - Now NanJing

> >

> >

> > Dr. Kramer,

> >

> > Thank you for the reference!

> >

> > I know him - he's excellent in stems and branches NeiJing style.

> >

> > :0)

> >

> > Thomas

> >

> >

> > fre, 13 03 2009 kl. 20:23 +0000, skrev Dr Kramer:

> > > You should look into Peter vanKervel in the Netherlands.

> > > Rick

> > >

> > > Dr Kramer

> > > 773-747-8798

> > >

> > >

> > > Thomas Sørensen <>

> > >

> > > Fri, 13 Mar 2009 20:58:22

> > > <Chinese Medicine >

> > > Re: Zhen Jiu Da Cheng

> > >

> > >

> > > Z'ev,

> > >

> > > > My main teacher and inspiration, Michael Broffman of Pine Street

> > > > Foundation, San Anselmo, Ca., bases his entire practice on the

> > Nan

> > > > Jing, including herbal medicine, dietary counseling, acumoxa,

> and

> > > > lifestyle recommendations. He largely works with complex

> > disorders.

> > > > Basically what he does (and I am slowly trying to do over the

> > > years)

> > > > is uses the difficult issues as templates to apply to the broad

> > > > palate

> > > > of medicine and health, building diagnostic and treatment

> > > strategies

> > > > on the principles contained within.

> > >

> > > I should tour the States for a bit to learn.... There are no real

> > > authorities on NanJing theory in Europe it seems - definitely no

> > one

> > > in

> > > denmark, so get my main inspiration from different practitioners

> on

> > > my

> > > yearly trips to Japan.

> > >

> > >

> > > > An e-mail rendering would be

> > > > impossible, but what I will do is give a short e-mail example in

> > my

> > > > next posting.

> > >

> > >

> > > That would be great :0) And Btw during the past couple of years

> > your

> > > posts and article(s) in the Lantern have been of excellent help

> and

> > > inspiration to me Z'ev - thanks a bunch.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > > To quote Michael: " the Nan Jing is an evolving blueprint for how

> > > > Chinese medicine has developed through the generations of

> > > > practitioners. It starts with a process of pattern recognition

> > that

> > > > ultimately leads the practitioner to a personal language of

> > pulses

> > > > and

> > > > what they mean " .

> > >

> > >

> > > That's very beautifully put :0)

> > >

> > > :0)

> > >

> > > Thomas

> > >

> > > --

> > > Althea Akupunktur

> > > Albanigade 23A, kld.

> > > 5000 Odense C

> > >

> > > Tlf.: 31 25 92 26

> > > http://www.ditlivditpotentiale.dk

> > >

> > > RAB: 2006059

> > > CVR: 27322646

> > >

> > > Frøslev Mollerup Sparekasse

> > > Reg.: 9133

> > > Konto: 2050409

> > >

> > >

> > >

[Guest guest]

Simon,

 

Thanks for the reference - I will look into it :0)

 

Yeah, I am just a few hours drive away from Holland, where Stephen Birch

also resides.

 

Thanks again!

 

:0)

 

Thomas

 

 

fre, 13 03 2009 kl. 21:29 -0600, skrev Simon Cairns:

>

> Joan Duveen, who also happens to be from the Netherlands is also worth

> mentioning. Aren't the Danes close neighbours with the Dutch?

>

> Simon

>

>

> Chinese Medicine

>

> Fri, 13 Mar 2009 21:50:19 +0100

> Re: Was Zhen Jiu Da Cheng - Now NanJing

>

> Dr. Kramer,

>

> Thank you for the reference!

>

> I know him - he's excellent in stems and branches NeiJing style.

>

> :0)

>

> Thomas

>

> fre, 13 03 2009 kl. 20:23 +0000, skrev Dr Kramer:

> > You should look into Peter vanKervel in the Netherlands.

> > Rick

> >

> > Dr Kramer

> > 773-747-8798

> >

> >

> > Thomas Sørensen <>

> >

> > Fri, 13 Mar 2009 20:58:22

> > <Chinese Medicine >

> > Re: Zhen Jiu Da Cheng

> >

> >

> > Z'ev,

> >

> > > My main teacher and inspiration, Michael Broffman of Pine Street

> > > Foundation, San Anselmo, Ca., bases his entire practice on the

> Nan

> > > Jing, including herbal medicine, dietary counseling, acumoxa, and

> > > lifestyle recommendations. He largely works with complex

> disorders.

> > > Basically what he does (and I am slowly trying to do over the

> > years)

> > > is uses the difficult issues as templates to apply to the broad

> > > palate

> > > of medicine and health, building diagnostic and treatment

> > strategies

> > > on the principles contained within.

> >

> > I should tour the States for a bit to learn.... There are no real

> > authorities on NanJing theory in Europe it seems - definitely no one

> > in

> > denmark, so get my main inspiration from different practitioners on

> > my

> > yearly trips to Japan.

> >

> >

> > > An e-mail rendering would be

> > > impossible, but what I will do is give a short e-mail example in

> my

> > > next posting.

> >

> >

> > That would be great :0) And Btw during the past couple of years

> your

> > posts and article(s) in the Lantern have been of excellent help and

> > inspiration to me Z'ev - thanks a bunch.

> >

> >

> >

> > > To quote Michael: " the Nan Jing is an evolving blueprint for how

> > > Chinese medicine has developed through the generations of

> > > practitioners. It starts with a process of pattern recognition

> that

> > > ultimately leads the practitioner to a personal language of

> pulses

> > > and

> > > what they mean " .

> >

> >

> > That's very beautifully put :0)

> >

> > :0)

> >

> > Thomas

> >

> > --

> > Althea Akupunktur

> > Albanigade 23A, kld.

> > 5000 Odense C

> >

> > Tlf.: 31 25 92 26

> > http://www.ditlivditpotentiale.dk

> >

> > RAB: 2006059

> > CVR: 27322646

> >

> > Frøslev Mollerup Sparekasse

> > Reg.: 9133

> > Konto: 2050409

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

Z'ev,

 

 

> Thomas,

> I agree that Nan Jing is a very fluid approach to systems

> dynamics in medicine, giving practitioners the tools to develop their

> own treatment strategies with a strong focus on time. However, this

> doesn't mean that the Shang Han Lun doesn't do this as well.

 

 

I agree with you wholly! I believe I described both Shang Han Lun theory

as well as the NeiJing in relative terms to the NanJing - no such thing

as a - If this didn't come through properly, I apologize.

 

 

> Hans Agren wrote an article published in a book by MIT press 20

> years ago (Time, Science and Society in China and the West/The Study

> of Time V) that argued that Shang Han Lun is based on linear

> sequential time, and that both the Nei Jing and Nan Jing were based

> on

> ying/resonance, a 'recognition of analogous patterns in different

> settings. " . However, since studying Shang Han Lun in depth with

> Arnaud Versluys, I don't see the two approaches as being dichotomous.

> The Shang Han Lun is simply a practical, clinically based expression

> of the theories of the Nei Jing.

 

 

I don't think that the NeiJing / NanJing / Shang Han Lun are divorced

from each other and that Shang Han Lun is born out of pure theory - I

believe that that the classics that survived are basically of a

practical nature - that's why they survived in the first place, I think.

And I do employ Shang Han theory whenever appropriate - It's absolutely

very practical.

 

However the herbal therapy texts are different from needle therapy texts

simply because their therapeutic natures are different. Herbs have

complex compositions which require much more theory in terms of both

diagnosis as wells as herbal properties in order to practice it

effeciently whereas needle therapy - which is my therapy of choice - in

order to be practiced effeciently requires a much more hands-on kind of

practice and in that manner is of a much more practical nature.

 

The way I see it is that the NeiJing provides the basic understanding

and Shang Han Lun expands on it using herbs as it's main therapy, coming

from a main stand point that disease is something coming from the

outside mainly, requiring much greater knowledge about everything that

moves in the universe and this calls for a large theoretical structure.

Whereas the NanJing uses NeiJing theory as it's basis, but reforms it

and turns more toward the self as the cause of disease stating that

deficiency must always be treated first and that prevention should have

priority in the proficient physician - this requires more

" innerstanding " than understanding making it much more

intuitive/practical and less theoretical. This approach is what I would

like to see if it is possible to apply to herbs.

 

I would like to underline that my statements are not absolute, but

rather relative in comparing these documents all which I hold in very

high esteem.

 

:0)

 

Thomas

 

 

 

>

> On Mar 13, 2009, at 9:53 PM, Thomas Sørensen wrote:

>

> > Rick,

> >

> > No I didn't learn from him, but a few of my patients who are also

> > acupuncturists are currently doing seminars with him and I am

> familiar

> > with his work.

> >

> > His approach is really interesting and there's no doubt that he's i

> > excellent at what he does.

> >

> > 5E and stems and branches are tightly interwoven in the NeiJing and

> > since the NanJing is pure 5E it has some of that flavor as well. The

> > NanJing mentions stems and branches several places, however NanJing

> is

> > more about organizing functions in relation to each other from a

> more

> > microcosmical here-and-now point of view * whereas stems and

> branches

> > are more an explanation of how the macrocosm is the main arbiter in

> > developing our constitution and as such should be used in treatment

> by

> > deciding open points in treatment.

> >

> > I have been playing around with stems and branches in a very small

> way

> > and find that - even with my very limited ability - it's quite

> > accurate

> > in determining the constitution determined by past macrocosmical

> > influences.

> >

> > The way I have experienced the use of stems and branches is that it

> > has

> > a tendency to override the here and now - also in Japanese styles -

> in

> > favor of set patterns of the past. Whereas the NanJing is more

> > oriented

> > to the fluidity of the moment. Of course both styles have both past

> > and

> > present inherent in them, but their focus is different. I am a

> simple

> > pragmatic here-and-now kind of guy so NeiJing, stems and branches,

> and

> > for that matter (ShangHanLun) herbal therapy which have a much more

> > theoretical flavor to it are not really up my alley.

> >

> > ---

> >

> > * This is my interpretation.... I also feel that NanJing is not a

> mere

> > commentary to the NeiJing, but a break with NeiJing theory in a

> huge

> > way

> > moving needle therapy towards being more poetic, more artful and

> more

> > fluent in terms of physiology, pathology, diagnosis and treatment

> and

> > away from a more " if-this-symptom/sign-treat-like-this " approach

> which

> > is more characteristic for NeiJing, ShangHanLun and most other texts

> I

> > have read on CM.

> >

> > But thanks again!

> >

> > :0)

> >

> > Thomas

> >

> > fre, 13 03 2009 kl. 21:00 +0000, skrev Dr Kramer:

> > > While he doesn't go into the nanjing by name he does seem to

> propose

> > > the same connections and ideas. Did you also learn from him?

> > > Rick

> > > Dr Kramer

> > > 773-747-8798

> > >

> > >

> > > Thomas Sørensen <>

> > >

> > > Fri, 13 Mar 2009 21:50:19

> > > <Chinese Medicine >

> > > Re: Was Zhen Jiu Da Cheng - Now NanJing

> > >

> > >

> > > Dr. Kramer,

> > >

> > > Thank you for the reference!

> > >

> > > I know him - he's excellent in stems and branches NeiJing style.

> > >

> > > :0)

> > >

> > > Thomas

> > >

> > >

> > > fre, 13 03 2009 kl. 20:23 +0000, skrev Dr Kramer:

> > > > You should look into Peter vanKervel in the Netherlands.

> > > > Rick

> > > >

> > > > Dr Kramer

> > > > 773-747-8798

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Thomas Sørensen <>

> > > >

> > > > Fri, 13 Mar 2009 20:58:22

> > > > <Chinese Medicine >

> > > > Re: Zhen Jiu Da Cheng

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Z'ev,

> > > >

> > > > > My main teacher and inspiration, Michael Broffman of Pine

> Street

> > > > > Foundation, San Anselmo, Ca., bases his entire practice on the

> > > Nan

> > > > > Jing, including herbal medicine, dietary counseling, acumoxa,

> > and

> > > > > lifestyle recommendations. He largely works with complex

> > > disorders.

> > > > > Basically what he does (and I am slowly trying to do over the

> > > > years)

> > > > > is uses the difficult issues as templates to apply to the

> broad

> > > > > palate

> > > > > of medicine and health, building diagnostic and treatment

> > > > strategies

> > > > > on the principles contained within.

> > > >

> > > > I should tour the States for a bit to learn.... There are no

> real

> > > > authorities on NanJing theory in Europe it seems - definitely no

> > > one

> > > > in

> > > > denmark, so get my main inspiration from different

> practitioners

> > on

> > > > my

> > > > yearly trips to Japan.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > > An e-mail rendering would be

> > > > > impossible, but what I will do is give a short e-mail example

> in

> > > my

> > > > > next posting.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > That would be great :0) And Btw during the past couple of years

> > > your

> > > > posts and article(s) in the Lantern have been of excellent help

> > and

> > > > inspiration to me Z'ev - thanks a bunch.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > > To quote Michael: " the Nan Jing is an evolving blueprint for

> how

> > > > > Chinese medicine has developed through the generations of

> > > > > practitioners. It starts with a process of pattern recognition

> > > that

> > > > > ultimately leads the practitioner to a personal language of

> > > pulses

> > > > > and

> > > > > what they mean " .

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > That's very beautifully put :0)

> > > >

> > > > :0)

> > > >

> > > > Thomas

> > > >

> > > > --

> > > > Althea Akupunktur

> > > > Albanigade 23A, kld.

> > > > 5000 Odense C

> > > >

> > > > Tlf.: 31 25 92 26

> > > > http://www.ditlivditpotentiale.dk

> > > >

> > > > RAB: 2006059

> > > > CVR: 27322646

> > > >

> > > > Frøslev Mollerup Sparekasse

> > > > Reg.: 9133

> > > > Konto: 2050409

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >