Guest guest Posted March 6, 2009 Report Share Posted March 6, 2009 OK! Today I had a very strange case. A 69 year old female came in with a persistant case of head shaking. She had gone the western medical route that had included botox injections and pt. Nothing so far has helped. She presented to be in really good shape. The doctors of course put her on BP pills although she claims not to have high blood pressure along with Cholesterol meds. And let us not forget the Parkinson drug (Gabasomething.)and the Toprol. I think the problem is a side effect of the meds, but she insisted that she they are not related. She also takes lots of vitamins and ginger for hearburn. She really did not present with anything out of the ordinary. Tongue looked swollen in heart area, pale pink with a thin white coat. Pulse was deep and weak except in the liver position. I treated for wind and phlegm. Symptoms persisted. I followed with scalp acupuncture for movement disorders and opening the gates. HELP! Lee Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 6, 2009 Report Share Posted March 6, 2009 Hello Lee, Sometimes the Wind (shaking) is a result of efficiency - Yin or Blood. It is common for someone her age to be Yin efficient, but her tongue does not show usual Yin Xu signs. What about Blood deficiency - pale tongue, thin, deep pulse tend to agree with that direction of thought. Take a look at some other signs of Blood xu - pale/dry skin (palms of hand are easy to look at), eyes, poor memory, shallow, unrefreshing sleep and many other subtle things that are commonly associated with Blood Xu. How is her digestion, BM, sleep? Is the head shaking better in the morning when she is fresh and rested? In some cases of wind if the sedating formulas and treatments are not working it may be because the wind is a result of defficiency and the nourishing formuals and tonifying treatmens may produce good results. This is just something I have seen in the clinic. My 2c. Eugene â€A superior pilot is one that uses his superior decision making to avoid situations where his superior flying skills might be required†________________________________ lee tritt <ladylee0999 Chinese Medicine Friday, March 6, 2009 3:16:13 PM Head Shaking OK! Today I had a very strange case. A 69 year old female came in with a persistant case of head shaking. She had gone the western medical route that had included botox injections and pt. Nothing so far has helped. She presented to be in really good shape. The doctors of course put her on BP pills although she claims not to have high blood pressure along with Cholesterol meds. And let us not forget the Parkinson drug (Gabasomething. )and the Toprol. I think the problem is a side effect of the meds, but she insisted that she they are not related. She also takes lots of vitamins and ginger for hearburn. She really did not present with anything out of the ordinary. Tongue looked swollen in heart area, pale pink with a thin white coat. Pulse was deep and weak except in the liver position. I treated for wind and phlegm. Symptoms persisted. I followed with scalp acupuncture for movement disorders and opening the gates. HELP! Lee Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 6, 2009 Report Share Posted March 6, 2009 Eugene: Thank you for your input. What is confusing me is she is not deficient. Her skin is not pale or dry. Her memory is good. Her sleep is very good. She wakes refreshed. Good BM, good digestion. No body pain except a muscle in her neck that she said is fatigued from overuse. She was unable to determine when the shaking is better because she said she doesnt notice it much. I am unfamiliar with the term efficiency. Sorry. Please explain. ________________________________ Eugene Kokorin <ek2000 Chinese Medicine Friday, March 6, 2009 6:38:12 PM Re: Head Shaking Hello Lee, Sometimes the Wind (shaking) is a result of efficiency - Yin or Blood. It is common for someone her age to be Yin efficient, but her tongue does not show usual Yin Xu signs. What about Blood deficiency - pale tongue, thin, deep pulse tend to agree with that direction of thought. Take a look at some other signs of Blood xu - pale/dry skin (palms of hand are easy to look at), eyes, poor memory, shallow, unrefreshing sleep and many other subtle things that are commonly associated with Blood Xu. How is her digestion, BM, sleep? Is the head shaking better in the morning when she is fresh and rested? In some cases of wind if the sedating formulas and treatments are not working it may be because the wind is a result of defficiency and the nourishing formuals and tonifying treatmens may produce good results. This is just something I have seen in the clinic. My 2c. Eugene â€A superior pilot is one that uses his superior decision making to avoid situations where his superior flying skills might be required†____________ _________ _________ __ lee tritt <ladylee0999@ > Friday, March 6, 2009 3:16:13 PM Head Shaking OK! Today I had a very strange case. A 69 year old female came in with a persistant case of head shaking. She had gone the western medical route that had included botox injections and pt. Nothing so far has helped. She presented to be in really good shape. The doctors of course put her on BP pills although she claims not to have high blood pressure along with Cholesterol meds. And let us not forget the Parkinson drug (Gabasomething. )and the Toprol. I think the problem is a side effect of the meds, but she insisted that she they are not related. She also takes lots of vitamins and ginger for hearburn. She really did not present with anything out of the ordinary. Tongue looked swollen in heart area, pale pink with a thin white coat. Pulse was deep and weak except in the liver position. I treated for wind and phlegm. Symptoms persisted. I followed with scalp acupuncture for movement disorders and opening the gates. HELP! Lee Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 7, 2009 Report Share Posted March 7, 2009 Lee, Sorry, it was supposed to be " deficiency " . Eugene â€A superior pilot is one that uses his superior decision making to avoid situations where his superior flying skills might be required†________________________________ lee tritt <ladylee0999 Chinese Medicine Friday, March 6, 2009 3:47:43 PM Re: Head Shaking Eugene: Thank you for your input. What is confusing me is she is not deficient. Her skin is not pale or dry. Her memory is good. Her sleep is very good. She wakes refreshed. Good BM, good digestion. No body pain except a muscle in her neck that she said is fatigued from overuse. She was unable to determine when the shaking is better because she said she doesnt notice it much. I am unfamiliar with the term efficiency. Sorry. Please explain. ____________ _________ _________ __ Eugene Kokorin <ek2000 > Friday, March 6, 2009 6:38:12 PM Re: Head Shaking Hello Lee, Sometimes the Wind (shaking) is a result of efficiency - Yin or Blood. It is common for someone her age to be Yin efficient, but her tongue does not show usual Yin Xu signs. What about Blood deficiency - pale tongue, thin, deep pulse tend to agree with that direction of thought. Take a look at some other signs of Blood xu - pale/dry skin (palms of hand are easy to look at), eyes, poor memory, shallow, unrefreshing sleep and many other subtle things that are commonly associated with Blood Xu. How is her digestion, BM, sleep? Is the head shaking better in the morning when she is fresh and rested? In some cases of wind if the sedating formulas and treatments are not working it may be because the wind is a result of defficiency and the nourishing formuals and tonifying treatmens may produce good results. This is just something I have seen in the clinic. My 2c. Eugene â€A superior pilot is one that uses his superior decision making to avoid situations where his superior flying skills might be required†____________ _________ _________ __ lee tritt <ladylee0999@ > Friday, March 6, 2009 3:16:13 PM Head Shaking OK! Today I had a very strange case. A 69 year old female came in with a persistant case of head shaking. She had gone the western medical route that had included botox injections and pt. Nothing so far has helped. She presented to be in really good shape. The doctors of course put her on BP pills although she claims not to have high blood pressure along with Cholesterol meds. And let us not forget the Parkinson drug (Gabasomething. )and the Toprol. I think the problem is a side effect of the meds, but she insisted that she they are not related. She also takes lots of vitamins and ginger for hearburn. She really did not present with anything out of the ordinary. Tongue looked swollen in heart area, pale pink with a thin white coat. Pulse was deep and weak except in the liver position. I treated for wind and phlegm. Symptoms persisted. I followed with scalp acupuncture for movement disorders and opening the gates. HELP! Lee Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 7, 2009 Report Share Posted March 7, 2009 There could be a nerve issue emanating from her neck, creating twitching. I've seen this from a patient who started getting the head shaking after neck surgery. She is slightly blood deficient as well, but not more than anyone else. Does she have any head injuries or scars on her head/neck? On Fri, Mar 6, 2009 at 4:11 PM, Eugene Kokorin <ek2000 wrote: > Lee, > > Sorry, it was supposed to be " deficiency " . > > > Eugene > > ”A superior pilot is one that uses his superior decision making to avoid > situations where his superior flying skills might be required” > > ________________________________ > lee tritt <ladylee0999 <ladylee0999%40>> > To: Chinese Medicine <Chinese Medicine%40yaho\ ogroups.com> > Friday, March 6, 2009 3:47:43 PM > > Re: Head Shaking > > Eugene: > Thank you for your input. What is confusing me is she is not deficient. Her > skin is not pale or dry. Her memory is good. Her sleep is very good. She > wakes refreshed. Good BM, good digestion. No body pain except a muscle in > her neck that she said is fatigued from overuse. > > She was unable to determine when the shaking is better because she said she > doesnt notice it much. > > I am unfamiliar with the term efficiency. Sorry. Please explain. > > ____________ _________ _________ __ > Eugene Kokorin <ek2000 > > > Friday, March 6, 2009 6:38:12 PM > Re: Head Shaking > > Hello Lee, > > Sometimes the Wind (shaking) is a result of efficiency - Yin or Blood. > It is common for someone her age to be Yin efficient, but her tongue does > not show usual Yin Xu signs. What about Blood deficiency - pale tongue, > thin, deep pulse tend to agree with that direction of thought. > Take a look at some other signs of Blood xu - pale/dry skin (palms of hand > are easy to look at), eyes, poor memory, shallow, unrefreshing sleep and > many other subtle things that are commonly associated with Blood Xu. > How is her digestion, BM, sleep? > Is the head shaking better in the morning when she is fresh and rested? > > In some cases of wind if the sedating formulas and treatments are not > working it may be because the wind is a result of defficiency and the > nourishing formuals and tonifying treatmens may produce good results. > > This is just something I have seen in the clinic. My 2c. > > Eugene > > ”A superior pilot is one that uses his superior decision making to avoid > situations where his superior flying skills might be required” > > ____________ _________ _________ __ > lee tritt <ladylee0999@ > > > Friday, March 6, 2009 3:16:13 PM > Head Shaking > > OK! Today I had a very strange case. A 69 year old female came in with a > persistant case of head shaking. She had gone the western medical route that > had included botox injections and pt. Nothing so far has helped. > > She presented to be in really good shape. The doctors of course put her on > BP pills although she claims not to have high blood pressure along with > Cholesterol meds. And let us not forget the Parkinson drug (Gabasomething. > )and the Toprol. I think the problem is a side effect of the meds, but she > insisted that she they are not related. She also takes lots of vitamins and > ginger for hearburn. > > She really did not present with anything out of the ordinary. Tongue looked > swollen in heart area, pale pink with a thin white coat. Pulse was deep and > weak except in the liver position. > > I treated for wind and phlegm. Symptoms persisted. I followed with scalp > acupuncture for movement disorders and opening the gates. > HELP! > Lee > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 7, 2009 Report Share Posted March 7, 2009 Hi Lee, >From the few signs your patient is presenting with it sounds like a pattern Lu def / Liver Excess / Heat Lu Qi deficiency (fatigued muscle in neck, sinking weak pulse) is not opening the pores properly trapping heat in the GB of the upper warmer especially in neck and head (early trauma to head or strike of wind/Cold) causing the head to shake. This pattern also accounts for the Heartburn responding to Ginger and registering as excessive Heart Heat on the tongue (Lu not spreading heat from mucous membranes of the digestive tract = Metal insulting Fire). This pattern is probably a lung constitutional problem and if so should be easily fixed in 2-3 treatments maximum. If this is the correct pattern then treatment should involve as few needles as possible and should be with shallow insertion and short retention time (from a couple of seconds to a couple of minutes tops). Points to choose from according to the above pattern using apropriate tonification/spreading techniques could be: Step 1) Sp3, Lu9, Liv2, PC7 ( Sp21 Lu1-2, PC1) for underlying pattern Step 2) Bl13, 20, 14-15 for underlying pattern Step 3) Scatter needling of back, neck and scalp, local ashi points from Bl18 and up through the Bl meridian and ashi points on GB meridian - choose the 3~6 most painful ones and needle shallowly Step 4) With patients comfortably sitting try Lu 5 (palpate for nodule/tenderness/band of tightness one cun before and after point - this will be the active location of Lu5) needle it while having the patient rotate her neck in small circles first small circles then larger. This should release her tight muscle(s) in the neck and if everything goes really well a nice crack of the neck will be heard. If no crack then repalpate lu5 - make sure to palpate both arms and needle any nodules/tenderness/tightness following the same procedure. When crack is heard it could be a good idea to very lightly massage the neck to avoid muscle tenderness. If the pattern is right the above scenario is very likely to play itself out and it should take care of the head shaking in one treatment with two follow-ups to consolidate first treament and to deal with left over Heart burn . Hope this helps :0) Thomas fre, 06 03 2009 kl. 15:47 -0800, skrev lee tritt: > Eugene: > Thank you for your input. What is confusing me is she is not > deficient. Her skin is not pale or dry. Her memory is good. Her sleep > is very good. She wakes refreshed. Good BM, good digestion. No body > pain except a muscle in her neck that she said is fatigued from > overuse. > > She was unable to determine when the shaking is better because she > said she doesnt notice it much. > > I am unfamiliar with the term efficiency. Sorry. Please explain. > > ________________________________ > Eugene Kokorin <ek2000 > Chinese Medicine > Friday, March 6, 2009 6:38:12 PM > Re: Head Shaking > > Hello Lee, > > Sometimes the Wind (shaking) is a result of efficiency - Yin or Blood. > It is common for someone her age to be Yin efficient, but her tongue > does not show usual Yin Xu signs. What about Blood deficiency - pale > tongue, thin, deep pulse tend to agree with that direction of thought. > Take a look at some other signs of Blood xu - pale/dry skin (palms of > hand are easy to look at), eyes, poor memory, shallow, unrefreshing > sleep and many other subtle things that are commonly associated with > Blood Xu. > How is her digestion, BM, sleep? > Is the head shaking better in the morning when she is fresh and > rested? > > In some cases of wind if the sedating formulas and treatments are not > working it may be because the wind is a result of defficiency and the > nourishing formuals and tonifying treatmens may produce good results. > > This is just something I have seen in the clinic. My 2c. > > Eugene > > â€A superior pilot is one that uses his superior decision making to > avoid situations where his superior flying skills might be required†> > ____________ _________ _________ __ > lee tritt <ladylee0999@ > > > Friday, March 6, 2009 3:16:13 PM > Head Shaking > > OK! Today I had a very strange case. A 69 year old female came in with > a persistant case of head shaking. She had gone the western medical > route that had included botox injections and pt. Nothing so far has > helped. > > She presented to be in really good shape. The doctors of course put > her on BP pills although she claims not to have high blood pressure > along with Cholesterol meds. And let us not forget the Parkinson drug > (Gabasomething. )and the Toprol. I think the problem is a side effect > of the meds, but she insisted that she they are not related. She also > takes lots of vitamins and ginger for hearburn. > > She really did not present with anything out of the ordinary. Tongue > looked swollen in heart area, pale pink with a thin white coat. Pulse > was deep and weak except in the liver position. > > I treated for wind and phlegm. Symptoms persisted. I followed with > scalp acupuncture for movement disorders and opening the gates. > HELP! > Lee > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 7, 2009 Report Share Posted March 7, 2009 Hi Thomas, I like the way you analyze everything in details. This gives me a light to see through again. However, I have another vision , it may be close to your diagnosis. Let's see your first. If this is Lu Qi def / Liver Excess / Heat… Lu Qi def & #61664; skinpores open, sweating, larthagy, shortness of breath, damp or phlegm, tighness of chess, cough or asthma, tighness or chest discomfort, urinary problem, skin problems ………….. Does it show any problem above ?........Sinking pulse means interior problem……. Weak pulse ( how is this interpreted ? slow and light strokes, or fast and light stroke? Or it is very difficult to palpate ???????? )………. If Lu Qi def, how can it insult the Fire ( Heart )????? I does not have a power of its own, how can it attack someone else???????? Liver Excess from Liver Yin def, then pattern of Yin and deficiency must be apparent. Hypochondriac pain / discomfort, abdominal discomfort, irritability ( mother nourish the child ) & #61664; Heart excess, dizziness, vertigo, tinnitus, groin pain, vertex headache or GB headache, eaily anger, high BP ??????????? If Heat is there , Metal insulting Fire ( Fire must consume Metal instead )….. As I see shoulder and neck pain ( this is a fatigue pain instead of wind , cold, damp or heat pain )…….. This is because of overwork or wrong position. This can be treated by acupressure or massage. But if this is a caused from BP and some nerves were damaged, it would not work. Trembling or shaking of head can be caused by many factors????????? But first, let's try to eliminate all of chemical uses ( drug or alcohol ). Those are the most blamable. Shaking head since when ? Any accident before that happened? Sometimes I could see that a trauma can cause tickling, prickling or shaking ( neuro damaged ). Try to eliminate all traumas …… I ASK MYSELF, WHY TREMBLING OR SHAKING? Trembling and shaking are motion. Motion is Qi, Yang , Wind, Heat, or Pressure. Shaking head ( the most Yang is in motion ) which means Yin does not harmonize with Yang or controls Yang. I do not see excess nor deficiency, so I think they are separate. What causes them to separate????????? Please help me !!!!!!!!!! is this from trauma or from drug or from emotion? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 7, 2009 Report Share Posted March 7, 2009 Shaking always relates to wind(wind is motion) which always relates to wood(wind shakes trees) either liver blood def., - emptyness with wind stirring or fire from trees burning(liver fire flaring), pale pink tongue means blood def., the head is not getting enough blood circulation maybe so she is shaking trying to get the blood to reach those places, tonify blood strongly(only raw herbs are strong enough) with herbs like si wu tang add wind/phlegm herbs like tian ma,- herbs that " free network vessels " in the head to get the blood tonics there- leech is one, I think saffron too, pangolion scales...do wind points like gb20 wood points like liv1(tonify), boost blood st36, sp6, moxa sp/st shu...I've had some results with shaking by moxa at fengmen...If its medication as the cause then it will be hard to treat, I see the root as pills weaken stomach function of making blood= emptyness,(thus st36 is key point adding humidity of earth to cool stomach, while preserving yang function) pills disturb liver in processing them= decline of liver function(liver 3 is helpful, combine with lu7 and l.i.4 to move liver qi)...This is my best guess not seeing the patient obivously hopefully something I said helps, -JB Chinese Medicine , " dr_namnguyen58 " <dr_namnguyen58 wrote: > > Hi Thomas, > I like the way you analyze everything in details. This gives me a light to see through again. However, I have another vision , it may be close to your diagnosis. > Let's see your first. If this is Lu Qi def / Liver Excess / Heat… > Lu Qi def & #61664; skinpores open, sweating, larthagy, shortness of breath, damp or phlegm, tighness of chess, cough or asthma, tighness or chest discomfort, urinary problem, skin problems ………….. Does it show any problem above ?........Sinking pulse means interior problem……. Weak pulse ( how is this interpreted ? slow and light strokes, or fast and light stroke? Or it is very difficult to palpate ???????? )………. If Lu Qi def, how can it insult the Fire ( Heart )????? I does not have a power of its own, how can it attack someone else???????? > Liver Excess from Liver Yin def, then pattern of Yin and deficiency must be apparent. > Hypochondriac pain / discomfort, abdominal discomfort, irritability ( mother nourish the child ) & #61664; Heart excess, dizziness, vertigo, tinnitus, groin pain, vertex headache or GB headache, eaily anger, high BP ??????????? > If Heat is there , Metal insulting Fire ( Fire must consume Metal instead )….. > > > As I see shoulder and neck pain ( this is a fatigue pain instead of wind , cold, damp or heat pain )…….. This is because of overwork or wrong position. This can be treated by acupressure or massage. But if this is a caused from BP and some nerves were damaged, it would not work. > Trembling or shaking of head can be caused by many factors????????? But first, let's try to eliminate all of chemical uses ( drug or alcohol ). Those are the most blamable. > Shaking head since when ? Any accident before that happened? Sometimes I could see that a trauma can cause tickling, prickling or shaking ( neuro damaged ). Try to eliminate all traumas …… > > I ASK MYSELF, WHY TREMBLING OR SHAKING? > Trembling and shaking are motion. Motion is Qi, Yang , Wind, Heat, or Pressure. > Shaking head ( the most Yang is in motion ) which means Yin does not harmonize with Yang or controls Yang. I do not see excess nor deficiency, so I think they are separate. > What causes them to separate????????? Please help me !!!!!!!!!! is this from trauma or from drug or from emotion? > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 7, 2009 Report Share Posted March 7, 2009 Dr. Namguyen, I owe to tell you that I practice Keiraku Chiryo - Japanese Traditional Acupuncture. Oftentimes things are wieved slightly differently than in other styles..... It's based mainly though not exclusively on NanJing thought. > Lu Qi def & #61664; skinpores open, sweating, larthagy, shortness of > breath, damp or phlegm, tighness of chess, cough or asthma, tighness > or chest discomfort, urinary problem, skin problems ………….. Does it > show any problem above ? These symptoms are not necessary for the pattern to be present especially if we are dealing with constitutional issues.... and furthermore I am confident that palpation of abdomen and channels will reveal details to the diagnosis either confirming it or disproving it. > ........Sinking pulse means interior problem……. Yes from an Eight Principle point of view however I see it from a channel point of view. A sinking pulse shows that there's not enough Qi to keep the Wei afloat in the Yang channels. In this particular case all positions but the left Guan are sinking pointing towards generel lack of Yang Qi indicating Lung deficiency since the Lung rules all Qi. The left Guan shows excess pointing towards pathogenic Heat builiding in the GB channel becoming the main symptomatic presentation > Weak pulse ( how is this interpreted ? slow and light strokes, or fast > and light stroke? Or it is very difficult to palpate ???????? )………. Difficult to know I agree - the art of pulse diagnosis is hard to convey in writing - and many styles of pulse diagnosis are also available however it's going to be deficient as opposed to excess?! > If Lu Qi def, how can it insult the Fire ( Heart )????? I does not > have a power of its own, how can it attack someone else???????? In the NanJing it's called a minor evil and it is not a question of the controlled phase to reverse the controlling cycle. In classical thinking the controlling phase is controlling by taking away from the controlled. The Heart is taking away Qi from the Lung in order to spread Xue and Heat around the body. In TCM known as the Zhong Qi functioning - So the Lung has no Qi for the HT to borrow = Zhong Qi deficiency leading to stagnant Heat in the Upper Jiao. > Liver Excess from Liver Yin def, then pattern of Yin and deficiency > must be apparent. Liver is in excess the split second it's Qi is blocked Yin deficiency follows later - we are still at an early stage in the pathomechanism not yet affecting Blood, the Yin of the Liver. > Hypochondriac pain / discomfort, abdominal discomfort, irritability > ( mother nourish the child ) & #61664; Heart excess, dizziness, > vertigo, tinnitus, groin pain, vertex headache or GB headache, eaily > anger, high BP ??????????? > If Heat is there , Metal insulting Fire ( Fire must consume Metal > instead )…. Absolutely - In case of a Lung Yin deficiency this would be the case and we would have ourselves a killer problem. > As I see shoulder and neck pain ( this is a fatigue pain instead of > wind , cold, damp or heat pain )…….. This is because of overwork or > wrong position. This can be treated by acupressure or massage. But if > this is a caused from BP and some nerves were damaged, it would not > work. Overwork and invasion might very well be the trigger(s) but never the cause(s)! And by the way high BP due to Metal insulting Fire is very easy to treat. High BP due to Fire consuming Metal will be VERY much harder to treat. No nerve lesions will maybe not heal through acupuncture but who is to know if one doesn't try? > Trembling or shaking of head can be caused by many factors????????? > But first, let's try to eliminate all of chemical uses ( drug or > alcohol ). Those are the most blamable. > Shaking head since when ? Any accident before that happened? Sometimes > I could see that a trauma can cause tickling, prickling or shaking > ( neuro damaged ). Try to eliminate all traumas Also - not to forget - the trauma of self neglect..... > I ASK MYSELF, WHY TREMBLING OR SHAKING? > Trembling and shaking are motion. Motion is Qi, Yang , Wind, Heat, or > Pressure. > Shaking head ( the most Yang is in motion ) which means Yin does not > harmonize with Yang or controls Yang. I do not see excess nor > deficiency, so I think they are separate. > What causes them to separate????????? Please help me !!!!!!!!!! is > this from trauma or from drug or from emotion? Yin is definitely not embracing Yang - the ultimate job at hand is always to nourish Yin so Yang can transform effortlessly. ..... there's a lot to this case we will never see revealed so this will at best be talk on theory and points of view that will hopefully benefit Lee's patient. And furthermore.... as the main symptom subsides more issues are bound to surface.... people tend to get stuck in the most present variation of their suffering.... We probably have different views but also a common Heart :0) Respectfully, Thomas > > > > > -- Althea Akupunktur Albanigade 23A, kld. 5000 Odense C Tlf.: 31 25 92 26 http://www.ditlivditpotentiale.dk RAB: 2006059 CVR: 27322646 Frøslev Mollerup Sparekasse Reg.: 9133 Konto: 2050409 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 8, 2009 Report Share Posted March 8, 2009 Dr. Thomas, Thank to your analysis. Everything you pointed out makes senses...I love your points... However, there is a sinking pulse " not enough Yang nor Qi to float up is a def or Yang def " if forceful , I mean sinking and forceful " this would not be Yang def, wouldn't it? " ..... I also thought about nourishing the marrow and blood to calm the wind........... But I have not seen a deficiency sign. I am puzzling... Blood def --> internal Wind... But if there was a trauma, nerves are dead, or blood stagnation, tonification may get worse?????? Du 16 , Du20 directly enter the brain ..... G39 for bone marrow. B11 for blood , S36 + SP6 ( blood )...... Should we touch these points before we are finding out for more information? Chinese Medicine , Thomas Sørensen <> wrote: > > Dr. Namguyen, > > I owe to tell you that I practice Keiraku Chiryo - Japanese Traditional > Acupuncture. Oftentimes things are wieved slightly differently than in > other styles..... It's based mainly though not exclusively on NanJing > thought. > > > Lu Qi def & #61664; skinpores open, sweating, larthagy, shortness of > > breath, damp or phlegm, tighness of chess, cough or asthma, tighness > > or chest discomfort, urinary problem, skin problems ………….. Does it > > show any problem above ? > > > These symptoms are not necessary for the pattern to be present > especially if we are dealing with constitutional issues.... and > furthermore I am confident that palpation of abdomen and channels will > reveal details to the diagnosis either confirming it or disproving it. > > > > ........Sinking pulse means interior problem……. > > > Yes from an Eight Principle point of view however I see it from a > channel point of view. A sinking pulse shows that there's not enough Qi > to keep the Wei afloat in the Yang channels. In this particular case all > positions but the left Guan are sinking pointing towards generel lack of > Yang Qi indicating Lung deficiency since the Lung rules all Qi. The left > Guan shows excess pointing towards pathogenic Heat builiding in the GB > channel becoming the main symptomatic presentation > > > > Weak pulse ( how is this interpreted ? slow and light strokes, or fast > > and light stroke? Or it is very difficult to palpate ???????? )………. > > > Difficult to know I agree - the art of pulse diagnosis is hard to convey > in writing - and many styles of pulse diagnosis are also available > however it's going to be deficient as opposed to excess?! > > > > If Lu Qi def, how can it insult the Fire ( Heart )????? I does not > > have a power of its own, how can it attack someone else???????? > > > In the NanJing it's called a minor evil and it is not a question of the > controlled phase to reverse the controlling cycle. In classical thinking > the controlling phase is controlling by taking away from the controlled. > The Heart is taking away Qi from the Lung in order to spread Xue and > Heat around the body. In TCM known as the Zhong Qi functioning - So the > Lung has no Qi for the HT to borrow = Zhong Qi deficiency leading to > stagnant Heat in the Upper Jiao. > > > > Liver Excess from Liver Yin def, then pattern of Yin and deficiency > > must be apparent. > > > Liver is in excess the split second it's Qi is blocked Yin deficiency > follows later - we are still at an early stage in the pathomechanism not > yet affecting Blood, the Yin of the Liver. > > > > Hypochondriac pain / discomfort, abdominal discomfort, irritability > > ( mother nourish the child ) & #61664; Heart excess, dizziness, > > vertigo, tinnitus, groin pain, vertex headache or GB headache, eaily > > anger, high BP ??????????? > > If Heat is there , Metal insulting Fire ( Fire must consume Metal > > instead )…. > > > Absolutely - In case of a Lung Yin deficiency this would be the case and > we would have ourselves a killer problem. > > > > As I see shoulder and neck pain ( this is a fatigue pain instead of > > wind , cold, damp or heat pain )…….. This is because of overwork or > > wrong position. This can be treated by acupressure or massage. But if > > this is a caused from BP and some nerves were damaged, it would not > > work. > > > Overwork and invasion might very well be the trigger(s) but never the > cause(s)! > > And by the way high BP due to Metal insulting Fire is very easy to > treat. High BP due to Fire consuming Metal will be VERY much harder to > treat. > > No nerve lesions will maybe not heal through acupuncture but who is to > know if one doesn't try? > > > > Trembling or shaking of head can be caused by many factors????????? > > But first, let's try to eliminate all of chemical uses ( drug or > > alcohol ). Those are the most blamable. > > Shaking head since when ? Any accident before that happened? Sometimes > > I could see that a trauma can cause tickling, prickling or shaking > > ( neuro damaged ). Try to eliminate all traumas > > > Also - not to forget - the trauma of self neglect..... > > > > I ASK MYSELF, WHY TREMBLING OR SHAKING? > > Trembling and shaking are motion. Motion is Qi, Yang , Wind, Heat, or > > Pressure. > > Shaking head ( the most Yang is in motion ) which means Yin does not > > harmonize with Yang or controls Yang. I do not see excess nor > > deficiency, so I think they are separate. > > What causes them to separate????????? Please help me !!!!!!!!!! is > > this from trauma or from drug or from emotion? > > > Yin is definitely not embracing Yang - the ultimate job at hand is > always to nourish Yin so Yang can transform effortlessly. > > .... there's a lot to this case we will never see revealed so this will > at best be talk on theory and points of view that will hopefully benefit > Lee's patient. And furthermore.... as the main symptom subsides more > issues are bound to surface.... people tend to get stuck in the most > present variation of their suffering.... > > We probably have different views but also a common Heart :0) > > Respectfully, > > Thomas > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > Althea Akupunktur > Albanigade 23A, kld. > 5000 Odense C > > Tlf.: 31 25 92 26 > http://www.ditlivditpotentiale.dk > > RAB: 2006059 > CVR: 27322646 > > Frøslev Mollerup Sparekasse > Reg.: 9133 > Konto: 2050409 > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 8, 2009 Report Share Posted March 8, 2009 Dr. Namguyen, > Thank to your analysis. Everything you pointed out makes senses...I > love your points... However, there is a sinking pulse " not enough > Yang nor Qi to float up is a def or Yang def " if forceful , I mean > sinking and forceful " this would not be Yang def, wouldn't it? " ..... The original post from Lee said : " Pulse was deep and weak except in the liver position. " If it had been sinking and forceful then Yang would have entered Yin. If this pulse would be consistent through all three positions and beating as one (having no wave) then it would probably be RenMai Heat. Open with gold needle assist with silver needle retain till pulse becomes normal and St Qi is brought to the light from it's oppressor the Toxic Heat. > I also thought about nourishing the marrow and blood to calm the > wind........... But I have not seen a deficiency sign. I am > puzzling... Blood def --> internal Wind... But if there was a trauma, > nerves are dead, or blood stagnation, tonification may get worse?????? This is of course true however from my point of view there's always def behind exc. It is more a question of how much stimulation would be appropriate. From the few details we've had presented I would go ahead and tonify Sp3, Lu9 with a #00 inserting it very superficially along with the flow (0,5 Fen) of the channel or just touching the hairs/skin closely monitoring the pulses for changes. If this brings the pulse back up into the Yang - which it should if diagnosis is correct - and the Liver exc is still persistent I would shunt it using Liv4 against the flow of the channel, probably going slightly deeper than during tonification following the NanJing advice of grabbing the Yin and pulling it out to the Yang in order to shunt. I would choose a gold needle #1 ~ 2 depending on relative pulse strength - the stronger the needle the thicker the needle. Normally I shunt with stainless steel needles, but in cases of Yang Xu or Lung involvement I often opt to use silver or gold needles to take the edge of the shunting. > Du 16 , Du20 directly enter the brain ..... G39 for bone marrow. > B11 for blood , S36 + SP6 ( blood )...... Should we touch these points > before we are finding out for more information? Thorough palpation is the mark of the skilled artisan. These are all good points from an 8 principle approach if the diagnosis is Blood deficiency with internal Wind stirring in the Mud Pellet, but tonification of these points in Lung Yang def would be detrimental to the patient. Strengthening the Blood giving more work to the Heart and Lung would probably complicate matters. An interesting thing to look for is also disturbance of the 8 Odd Meridians. Head shaking can be considered Yang epilepsy - look for abnormality of the Yang Qiao Mai and Yang Wei Mai. These do not always register immediately in the pulse, but when they do the pulse for the Yang Qiao Mai is exc in both Cun positions simultaneously - in this particular case it would - if Yang Qiao Mai is involved - be expected to be slighly floating if they suddenly appear. If Yang Wei Mai is involved a diagonal pulse will eventually appear. Signs to look for in Yang Qiao Mai involvement is tension on the lateral aspect of the lower leg and relative slackness of the medial aspect of the lower leg made obvious by excessive pronation of the foot/feet and the hip, shoulders and occiput being off balance. Thank you :0) Respectfully, Thomas - not Dr. - just Thomas :0) > > Chinese Medicine , Thomas Sørensen > <> wrote: > > > > Dr. Namguyen, > > > > I owe to tell you that I practice Keiraku Chiryo - Japanese > Traditional > > Acupuncture. Oftentimes things are wieved slightly differently than > in > > other styles..... It's based mainly though not exclusively on > NanJing > > thought. > > > > > Lu Qi def & #61664; skinpores open, sweating, larthagy, shortness > of > > > breath, damp or phlegm, tighness of chess, cough or asthma, > tighness > > > or chest discomfort, urinary problem, skin problems ………….. > Does it > > > show any problem above ? > > > > > > These symptoms are not necessary for the pattern to be present > > especially if we are dealing with constitutional issues.... and > > furthermore I am confident that palpation of abdomen and channels > will > > reveal details to the diagnosis either confirming it or disproving > it. > > > > > > > ........Sinking pulse means interior problem……. > > > > > > Yes from an Eight Principle point of view however I see it from a > > channel point of view. A sinking pulse shows that there's not enough > Qi > > to keep the Wei afloat in the Yang channels. In this particular case > all > > positions but the left Guan are sinking pointing towards generel > lack of > > Yang Qi indicating Lung deficiency since the Lung rules all Qi. The > left > > Guan shows excess pointing towards pathogenic Heat builiding in the > GB > > channel becoming the main symptomatic presentation > > > > > > > Weak pulse ( how is this interpreted ? slow and light strokes, or > fast > > > and light stroke? Or it is very difficult to palpate ???????? )â > €¦â€¦â€¦. > > > > > > Difficult to know I agree - the art of pulse diagnosis is hard to > convey > > in writing - and many styles of pulse diagnosis are also available > > however it's going to be deficient as opposed to excess?! > > > > > > > If Lu Qi def, how can it insult the Fire ( Heart )????? I does not > > > have a power of its own, how can it attack someone else???????? > > > > > > In the NanJing it's called a minor evil and it is not a question of > the > > controlled phase to reverse the controlling cycle. In classical > thinking > > the controlling phase is controlling by taking away from the > controlled. > > The Heart is taking away Qi from the Lung in order to spread Xue and > > Heat around the body. In TCM known as the Zhong Qi functioning - So > the > > Lung has no Qi for the HT to borrow = Zhong Qi deficiency leading to > > stagnant Heat in the Upper Jiao. > > > > > > > Liver Excess from Liver Yin def, then pattern of Yin and > deficiency > > > must be apparent. > > > > > > Liver is in excess the split second it's Qi is blocked Yin > deficiency > > follows later - we are still at an early stage in the pathomechanism > not > > yet affecting Blood, the Yin of the Liver. > > > > > > > Hypochondriac pain / discomfort, abdominal discomfort, > irritability > > > ( mother nourish the child ) & #61664; Heart excess, dizziness, > > > vertigo, tinnitus, groin pain, vertex headache or GB headache, > eaily > > > anger, high BP ??????????? > > > If Heat is there , Metal insulting Fire ( Fire must consume Metal > > > instead )…. > > > > > > Absolutely - In case of a Lung Yin deficiency this would be the case > and > > we would have ourselves a killer problem. > > > > > > > As I see shoulder and neck pain ( this is a fatigue pain instead > of > > > wind , cold, damp or heat pain )…….. This is because of > overwork or > > > wrong position. This can be treated by acupressure or massage. But > if > > > this is a caused from BP and some nerves were damaged, it would > not > > > work. > > > > > > Overwork and invasion might very well be the trigger(s) but never > the > > cause(s)! > > > > And by the way high BP due to Metal insulting Fire is very easy to > > treat. High BP due to Fire consuming Metal will be VERY much harder > to > > treat. > > > > No nerve lesions will maybe not heal through acupuncture but who is > to > > know if one doesn't try? > > > > > > > Trembling or shaking of head can be caused by many > factors????????? > > > But first, let's try to eliminate all of chemical uses ( drug or > > > alcohol ). Those are the most blamable. > > > Shaking head since when ? Any accident before that happened? > Sometimes > > > I could see that a trauma can cause tickling, prickling or shaking > > > ( neuro damaged ). Try to eliminate all traumas > > > > > > Also - not to forget - the trauma of self neglect..... > > > > > > > I ASK MYSELF, WHY TREMBLING OR SHAKING? > > > Trembling and shaking are motion. Motion is Qi, Yang , Wind, Heat, > or > > > Pressure. > > > Shaking head ( the most Yang is in motion ) which means Yin does > not > > > harmonize with Yang or controls Yang. I do not see excess nor > > > deficiency, so I think they are separate. > > > What causes them to separate????????? Please help me !!!!!!!!!! is > > > this from trauma or from drug or from emotion? > > > > > > Yin is definitely not embracing Yang - the ultimate job at hand is > > always to nourish Yin so Yang can transform effortlessly. > > > > .... there's a lot to this case we will never see revealed so this > will > > at best be talk on theory and points of view that will hopefully > benefit > > Lee's patient. And furthermore.... as the main symptom subsides more > > issues are bound to surface.... people tend to get stuck in the most > > present variation of their suffering.... > > > > We probably have different views but also a common Heart :0) > > > > Respectfully, > > > > Thomas > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > Althea Akupunktur > > Albanigade 23A, kld. > > 5000 Odense C > > > > Tlf.: 31 25 92 26 > > http://www.ditlivditpotentiale.dk > > > > RAB: 2006059 > > CVR: 27322646 > > > > Frøslev Mollerup Sparekasse > > Reg.: 9133 > > Konto: 2050409 > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 8, 2009 Report Share Posted March 8, 2009 Dr. Nam Nguyen Is your name spelled correctly? I think I misspelled your name in previous posts - my apologies! Respectfully, Thomas søn, 08 03 2009 kl. 04:51 +0000, skrev dr_namnguyen58: > Dr. Thomas, > > Thank to your analysis. Everything you pointed out makes senses...I > love your points... However, there is a sinking pulse " not enough > Yang nor Qi to float up is a def or Yang def " if forceful , I mean > sinking and forceful " this would not be Yang def, wouldn't it? " ..... > I also thought about nourishing the marrow and blood to calm the > wind........... But I have not seen a deficiency sign. I am > puzzling... Blood def --> internal Wind... But if there was a trauma, > nerves are dead, or blood stagnation, tonification may get worse?????? > Du 16 , Du20 directly enter the brain ..... G39 for bone marrow. > B11 for blood , S36 + SP6 ( blood )...... Should we touch these points > before we are finding out for more information? > > Chinese Medicine , Thomas Sørensen > <> wrote: > > > > Dr. Namguyen, > > > > I owe to tell you that I practice Keiraku Chiryo - Japanese > Traditional > > Acupuncture. Oftentimes things are wieved slightly differently than > in > > other styles..... It's based mainly though not exclusively on > NanJing > > thought. > > > > > Lu Qi def & #61664; skinpores open, sweating, larthagy, shortness > of > > > breath, damp or phlegm, tighness of chess, cough or asthma, > tighness > > > or chest discomfort, urinary problem, skin problems ………….. > Does it > > > show any problem above ? > > > > > > These symptoms are not necessary for the pattern to be present > > especially if we are dealing with constitutional issues.... and > > furthermore I am confident that palpation of abdomen and channels > will > > reveal details to the diagnosis either confirming it or disproving > it. > > > > > > > ........Sinking pulse means interior problem……. > > > > > > Yes from an Eight Principle point of view however I see it from a > > channel point of view. A sinking pulse shows that there's not enough > Qi > > to keep the Wei afloat in the Yang channels. In this particular case > all > > positions but the left Guan are sinking pointing towards generel > lack of > > Yang Qi indicating Lung deficiency since the Lung rules all Qi. The > left > > Guan shows excess pointing towards pathogenic Heat builiding in the > GB > > channel becoming the main symptomatic presentation > > > > > > > Weak pulse ( how is this interpreted ? slow and light strokes, or > fast > > > and light stroke? Or it is very difficult to palpate ???????? )â > €¦â€¦â€¦. > > > > > > Difficult to know I agree - the art of pulse diagnosis is hard to > convey > > in writing - and many styles of pulse diagnosis are also available > > however it's going to be deficient as opposed to excess?! > > > > > > > If Lu Qi def, how can it insult the Fire ( Heart )????? I does not > > > have a power of its own, how can it attack someone else???????? > > > > > > In the NanJing it's called a minor evil and it is not a question of > the > > controlled phase to reverse the controlling cycle. In classical > thinking > > the controlling phase is controlling by taking away from the > controlled. > > The Heart is taking away Qi from the Lung in order to spread Xue and > > Heat around the body. In TCM known as the Zhong Qi functioning - So > the > > Lung has no Qi for the HT to borrow = Zhong Qi deficiency leading to > > stagnant Heat in the Upper Jiao. > > > > > > > Liver Excess from Liver Yin def, then pattern of Yin and > deficiency > > > must be apparent. > > > > > > Liver is in excess the split second it's Qi is blocked Yin > deficiency > > follows later - we are still at an early stage in the pathomechanism > not > > yet affecting Blood, the Yin of the Liver. > > > > > > > Hypochondriac pain / discomfort, abdominal discomfort, > irritability > > > ( mother nourish the child ) & #61664; Heart excess, dizziness, > > > vertigo, tinnitus, groin pain, vertex headache or GB headache, > eaily > > > anger, high BP ??????????? > > > If Heat is there , Metal insulting Fire ( Fire must consume Metal > > > instead )…. > > > > > > Absolutely - In case of a Lung Yin deficiency this would be the case > and > > we would have ourselves a killer problem. > > > > > > > As I see shoulder and neck pain ( this is a fatigue pain instead > of > > > wind , cold, damp or heat pain )…….. This is because of > overwork or > > > wrong position. This can be treated by acupressure or massage. But > if > > > this is a caused from BP and some nerves were damaged, it would > not > > > work. > > > > > > Overwork and invasion might very well be the trigger(s) but never > the > > cause(s)! > > > > And by the way high BP due to Metal insulting Fire is very easy to > > treat. High BP due to Fire consuming Metal will be VERY much harder > to > > treat. > > > > No nerve lesions will maybe not heal through acupuncture but who is > to > > know if one doesn't try? > > > > > > > Trembling or shaking of head can be caused by many > factors????????? > > > But first, let's try to eliminate all of chemical uses ( drug or > > > alcohol ). Those are the most blamable. > > > Shaking head since when ? Any accident before that happened? > Sometimes > > > I could see that a trauma can cause tickling, prickling or shaking > > > ( neuro damaged ). Try to eliminate all traumas > > > > > > Also - not to forget - the trauma of self neglect..... > > > > > > > I ASK MYSELF, WHY TREMBLING OR SHAKING? > > > Trembling and shaking are motion. Motion is Qi, Yang , Wind, Heat, > or > > > Pressure. > > > Shaking head ( the most Yang is in motion ) which means Yin does > not > > > harmonize with Yang or controls Yang. I do not see excess nor > > > deficiency, so I think they are separate. > > > What causes them to separate????????? Please help me !!!!!!!!!! is > > > this from trauma or from drug or from emotion? > > > > > > Yin is definitely not embracing Yang - the ultimate job at hand is > > always to nourish Yin so Yang can transform effortlessly. > > > > .... there's a lot to this case we will never see revealed so this > will > > at best be talk on theory and points of view that will hopefully > benefit > > Lee's patient. And furthermore.... as the main symptom subsides more > > issues are bound to surface.... people tend to get stuck in the most > > present variation of their suffering.... > > > > We probably have different views but also a common Heart :0) > > > > Respectfully, > > > > Thomas > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > Althea Akupunktur > > Albanigade 23A, kld. > > 5000 Odense C > > > > Tlf.: 31 25 92 26 > > http://www.ditlivditpotentiale.dk > > > > RAB: 2006059 > > CVR: 27322646 > > > > Frøslev Mollerup Sparekasse > > Reg.: 9133 > > Konto: 2050409 > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 8, 2009 Report Share Posted March 8, 2009 THanks so much THomas. Nam Nguyen Chinese Medicine , Thomas Sørensen <> wrote: > > Dr. Namguyen, > > > Thank to your analysis. Everything you pointed out makes senses...I > > love your points... However, there is a sinking pulse " not enough > > Yang nor Qi to float up is a def or Yang def " if forceful , I mean > > sinking and forceful " this would not be Yang def, wouldn't it? " ..... > > > The original post from Lee said : " Pulse was deep and weak except in the > liver position. " If it had been sinking and forceful then Yang would > have entered Yin. If this pulse would be consistent through all three > positions and beating as one (having no wave) then it would probably be > RenMai Heat. Open with gold needle assist with silver needle retain till > pulse becomes normal and St Qi is brought to the light from it's > oppressor the Toxic Heat. > > > > I also thought about nourishing the marrow and blood to calm the > > wind........... But I have not seen a deficiency sign. I am > > puzzling... Blood def --> internal Wind... But if there was a trauma, > > nerves are dead, or blood stagnation, tonification may get worse?????? > > > This is of course true however from my point of view there's always def > behind exc. It is more a question of how much stimulation would be > appropriate. From the few details we've had presented I would go ahead > and tonify Sp3, Lu9 with a #00 inserting it very superficially along > with the flow (0,5 Fen) of the channel or just touching the hairs/skin > closely monitoring the pulses for changes. If this brings the pulse back > up into the Yang - which it should if diagnosis is correct - and the > Liver exc is still persistent I would shunt it using Liv4 against the > flow of the channel, probably going slightly deeper than during > tonification following the NanJing advice of grabbing the Yin and > pulling it out to the Yang in order to shunt. I would choose a gold > needle #1 ~ 2 depending on relative pulse strength - the stronger the > needle the thicker the needle. Normally I shunt with stainless steel > needles, but in cases of Yang Xu or Lung involvement I often opt to use > silver or gold needles to take the edge of the shunting. > > > > Du 16 , Du20 directly enter the brain ..... G39 for bone marrow. > > B11 for blood , S36 + SP6 ( blood )...... Should we touch these points > > before we are finding out for more information? > > > Thorough palpation is the mark of the skilled artisan. > > These are all good points from an 8 principle approach if the diagnosis > is Blood deficiency with internal Wind stirring in the Mud Pellet, but > tonification of these points in Lung Yang def would be detrimental to > the patient. Strengthening the Blood giving more work to the Heart and > Lung would probably complicate matters. > > An interesting thing to look for is also disturbance of the 8 Odd > Meridians. Head shaking can be considered Yang epilepsy - look for > abnormality of the Yang Qiao Mai and Yang Wei Mai. These do not always > register immediately in the pulse, but when they do the pulse for the > Yang Qiao Mai is exc in both Cun positions simultaneously - in this > particular case it would - if Yang Qiao Mai is involved - be expected to > be slighly floating if they suddenly appear. If Yang Wei Mai is involved > a diagonal pulse will eventually appear. Signs to look for in Yang Qiao > Mai involvement is tension on the lateral aspect of the lower leg and > relative slackness of the medial aspect of the lower leg made obvious by > excessive pronation of the foot/feet and the hip, shoulders and occiput > being off balance. > > Thank you :0) > > Respectfully, > > Thomas - not Dr. - just Thomas :0) > > > > > > > Chinese Medicine , Thomas Sørensen > > <thomas@> wrote: > > > > > > Dr. Namguyen, > > > > > > I owe to tell you that I practice Keiraku Chiryo - Japanese > > Traditional > > > Acupuncture. Oftentimes things are wieved slightly differently than > > in > > > other styles..... It's based mainly though not exclusively on > > NanJing > > > thought. > > > > > > > Lu Qi def & #61664; skinpores open, sweating, larthagy, shortness > > of > > > > breath, damp or phlegm, tighness of chess, cough or asthma, > > tighness > > > > or chest discomfort, urinary problem, skin problems ………….. > > Does it > > > > show any problem above ? > > > > > > > > > These symptoms are not necessary for the pattern to be present > > > especially if we are dealing with constitutional issues.... and > > > furthermore I am confident that palpation of abdomen and channels > > will > > > reveal details to the diagnosis either confirming it or disproving > > it. > > > > > > > > > > ........Sinking pulse means interior problem……. > > > > > > > > > Yes from an Eight Principle point of view however I see it from a > > > channel point of view. A sinking pulse shows that there's not enough > > Qi > > > to keep the Wei afloat in the Yang channels. In this particular case > > all > > > positions but the left Guan are sinking pointing towards generel > > lack of > > > Yang Qi indicating Lung deficiency since the Lung rules all Qi. The > > left > > > Guan shows excess pointing towards pathogenic Heat builiding in the > > GB > > > channel becoming the main symptomatic presentation > > > > > > > > > > Weak pulse ( how is this interpreted ? slow and light strokes, or > > fast > > > > and light stroke? Or it is very difficult to palpate ???????? )â > > €¦â€¦â€¦. > > > > > > > > > Difficult to know I agree - the art of pulse diagnosis is hard to > > convey > > > in writing - and many styles of pulse diagnosis are also available > > > however it's going to be deficient as opposed to excess?! > > > > > > > > > > If Lu Qi def, how can it insult the Fire ( Heart )????? I does not > > > > have a power of its own, how can it attack someone else???????? > > > > > > > > > In the NanJing it's called a minor evil and it is not a question of > > the > > > controlled phase to reverse the controlling cycle. In classical > > thinking > > > the controlling phase is controlling by taking away from the > > controlled. > > > The Heart is taking away Qi from the Lung in order to spread Xue and > > > Heat around the body. In TCM known as the Zhong Qi functioning - So > > the > > > Lung has no Qi for the HT to borrow = Zhong Qi deficiency leading to > > > stagnant Heat in the Upper Jiao. > > > > > > > > > > Liver Excess from Liver Yin def, then pattern of Yin and > > deficiency > > > > must be apparent. > > > > > > > > > Liver is in excess the split second it's Qi is blocked Yin > > deficiency > > > follows later - we are still at an early stage in the pathomechanism > > not > > > yet affecting Blood, the Yin of the Liver. > > > > > > > > > > Hypochondriac pain / discomfort, abdominal discomfort, > > irritability > > > > ( mother nourish the child ) & #61664; Heart excess, dizziness, > > > > vertigo, tinnitus, groin pain, vertex headache or GB headache, > > eaily > > > > anger, high BP ??????????? > > > > If Heat is there , Metal insulting Fire ( Fire must consume Metal > > > > instead )…. > > > > > > > > > Absolutely - In case of a Lung Yin deficiency this would be the case > > and > > > we would have ourselves a killer problem. > > > > > > > > > > As I see shoulder and neck pain ( this is a fatigue pain instead > > of > > > > wind , cold, damp or heat pain )…….. This is because of > > overwork or > > > > wrong position. This can be treated by acupressure or massage. But > > if > > > > this is a caused from BP and some nerves were damaged, it would > > not > > > > work. > > > > > > > > > Overwork and invasion might very well be the trigger(s) but never > > the > > > cause(s)! > > > > > > And by the way high BP due to Metal insulting Fire is very easy to > > > treat. High BP due to Fire consuming Metal will be VERY much harder > > to > > > treat. > > > > > > No nerve lesions will maybe not heal through acupuncture but who is > > to > > > know if one doesn't try? > > > > > > > > > > Trembling or shaking of head can be caused by many > > factors????????? > > > > But first, let's try to eliminate all of chemical uses ( drug or > > > > alcohol ). Those are the most blamable. > > > > Shaking head since when ? Any accident before that happened? > > Sometimes > > > > I could see that a trauma can cause tickling, prickling or shaking > > > > ( neuro damaged ). Try to eliminate all traumas > > > > > > > > > Also - not to forget - the trauma of self neglect..... > > > > > > > > > > I ASK MYSELF, WHY TREMBLING OR SHAKING? > > > > Trembling and shaking are motion. Motion is Qi, Yang , Wind, Heat, > > or > > > > Pressure. > > > > Shaking head ( the most Yang is in motion ) which means Yin does > > not > > > > harmonize with Yang or controls Yang. I do not see excess nor > > > > deficiency, so I think they are separate. > > > > What causes them to separate????????? Please help me !!!!!!!!!! is > > > > this from trauma or from drug or from emotion? > > > > > > > > > Yin is definitely not embracing Yang - the ultimate job at hand is > > > always to nourish Yin so Yang can transform effortlessly. > > > > > > .... there's a lot to this case we will never see revealed so this > > will > > > at best be talk on theory and points of view that will hopefully > > benefit > > > Lee's patient. And furthermore.... as the main symptom subsides more > > > issues are bound to surface.... people tend to get stuck in the most > > > present variation of their suffering.... > > > > > > We probably have different views but also a common Heart :0) > > > > > > Respectfully, > > > > > > Thomas > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > Althea Akupunktur > > > Albanigade 23A, kld. > > > 5000 Odense C > > > > > > Tlf.: 31 25 92 26 > > > http://www.ditlivditpotentiale.dk > > > > > > RAB: 2006059 > > > CVR: 27322646 > > > > > > Frøslev Mollerup Sparekasse > > > Reg.: 9133 > > > Konto: 2050409 > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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