Guest guest Posted February 21, 2009 Report Share Posted February 21, 2009 Tom, I've been thinking about this today. Firstly, I want and need to apologize to you for being so heavy and emotional and self righteous with you about this big subject. The information you were sharing I didn't respect, and railed on about so much, that I cut you off, instead of allowing a conversation. The concerns I have are real to me, but I made you the bad guy. Sorry. The codex deals with so many food, livestock, medical and manufacturing standards, I would like to think of it as a global information sharing tool, not just a collective legislative body. I'd imagine them as a base of transformation, an enlightened powwow, that holds the universal declaration of human rights as a factor in elevating trading agreements amongst areas and nations. The sea that lifts all the ships, as the saying goes. But that isn't my impression. It may be so in some areas, but I don't know of them, it feels like a Tsunami, more than a cooling rain. Are there instances of the codex groups' promoting indigenious medical systems, even the big TCM market, without restrictions, without an agenda for the supremacy of the huge multinationals and their social and financial engineering? I'm not always an optimist, tho ultimately I am, (rejoice, rejoice, you have no choice). What do you know that can warm me to the codex implementations, even for our medicine? As topics, nations, governments, world systems, all things, come and go, I wanted to say sorry again for being a loudmouth, because there are probably subjects we'd agree on without a hesitation. But I dropped decorum. --- On Fri, 2/20/09, Tom Verhaeghe <tom.verhaeghe wrote: Tom Verhaeghe <tom.verhaeghe RE: Re: Herbs in Italy Chinese Medicine Friday, February 20, 2009, 2:47 AM Last thing I heard about the codex alimentarius is that they do use advisors from the different sectors (including Chinese medicine) and that they do listen to their needs. Things will be more controlled, and given the sometimes poor quality control of herbal medicinals coming from China, this may not be a bad idea. Remember the melamine scandal, we don't want something similar happening to our sector. Granules will be regarded as pharmaceuticals, and formulas will have to be dispensed by a chemist ('apotheker' in Belgium) in a controlled environment. However, raw herbs will still be regarded as foods, not pharmaeuticals, or so I've heard. So I'm looking into buying one of those pressure cooker machines. They might be a good solution to the Codex Alimentarius question. Or we can just order granule formulas from official suppliers/ chemists. There are some obstacles, but as someone else said on this list, I don't think these will be as dramatic as we once thought they would be. I got this information from someone who acts as an advisor for the European Union in this matter, so I tend to believe him. I am also an optimist :-) Tom. Tom Verhaeghe Stationsplein 59 8770 Ingelmunster www.chinese- geneeskunde. be _____ Traditional_ Chinese_Medicine [Traditional_ Chinese_Medicine ] On Behalf Of mystir vrijdag 20 februari 2009 7:50 Re: Re: Herbs in Italy codex alimentarius is manifesting slowly and surely, the economic decline will help it happen http://www.youtube. <http://www.youtube. com/watch? v=nhApQ3QkG0Q & feature=related> com/watch?v= nhApQ3QkG0Q & feature=related and their soft sell pro site http://www.codexali <http://www.codexali mentarius. net/web/index_ en.jsp> mentarius.net/ web/index_ en.jsp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 3, 2009 Report Share Posted March 3, 2009 Hi Fran and list members, Sorry for the late reply- I guess I'm not the only one with an overflowing mailbox problem. No need to apologize for what you said, Fran. You are entitled to your opinion. I never felt you didn't respect my opinion or were being too heavy on me. 'Are there instances of the codex groups' promoting indigenious medical systems, even the big TCM market, without restrictions, without an agenda for the supremacy of the huge multinationals and their social and financial engineering?' As I said before, there are committees that are actually listening to the specific needs of the different communities. For sure there will be some restrictions- why else would there be a need for a new Codex? But restrictions are not always bad, the Yi Jing is full of examples of restraint ;-) We do need identity and quality checks with what's being offered on the European market. And from what I hear Americans have also grown weary of things Chinese. The biggest problem I see is that small businesses will have problems bringing new products on the market, as these will have to be researched and registered (notified) with the EU. This will cost a lot of money. The other option is proving that your product has been safely used for a period of time (I believe 20 years) on the European market, without any problems. Chinese herbs might get exempted from this rule. The committee involved with Chinese herbs knows that Chinese formulas are often individualized and cannot possibly all get tested. They are willing to accept this. The formulas will have to be mixed in a clean room when they are granules. Raw herbs cooked together would be regarded as food stuff with much more relaxed rules. Tom Verhaeghe Stationsplein 59 8770 Ingelmunster www.chinese-geneeskunde.be _____ Chinese Medicine Chinese Medicine On Behalf Of mystir zaterdag 21 februari 2009 8:53 Chinese Medicine RE: Re: Herbs in Italy, to Tom Tom, I've been thinking about this today. Firstly, I want and need to apologize to you for being so heavy and emotional and self righteous with you about this big subject. The information you were sharing I didn't respect, and railed on about so much, that I cut you off, instead of allowing a conversation. The concerns I have are real to me, but I made you the bad guy. Sorry. The codex deals with so many food, livestock, medical and manufacturing standards, I would like to think of it as a global information sharing tool, not just a collective legislative body. I'd imagine them as a base of transformation, an enlightened powwow, that holds the universal declaration of human rights as a factor in elevating trading agreements amongst areas and nations. The sea that lifts all the ships, as the saying goes. But that isn't my impression. It may be so in some areas, but I don't know of them, it feels like a Tsunami, more than a cooling rain. Are there instances of the codex groups' promoting indigenious medical systems, even the big TCM market, without restrictions, without an agenda for the supremacy of the huge multinationals and their social and financial engineering? I'm not always an optimist, tho ultimately I am, (rejoice, rejoice, you have no choice). What do you know that can warm me to the codex implementations, even for our medicine? As topics, nations, governments, world systems, all things, come and go, I wanted to say sorry again for being a loudmouth, because there are probably subjects we'd agree on without a hesitation. But I dropped decorum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 3, 2009 Report Share Posted March 3, 2009 That's funny Tom, after this little time, I just wrote to you now before I opened my inbox, to say I'm glad that people like you are involved. --- On Tue, 3/3/09, Tom Verhaeghe <tom.verhaeghe wrote: Tom Verhaeghe <tom.verhaeghe RE: Re: Herbs in Italy, to Tom Chinese Medicine Tuesday, March 3, 2009, 4:11 AM Hi Fran and list members, Sorry for the late reply- I guess I'm not the only one with an overflowing mailbox problem. No need to apologize for what you said, Fran. You are entitled to your opinion. I never felt you didn't respect my opinion or were being too heavy on me. 'Are there instances of the codex groups' promoting indigenious medical systems, even the big TCM market, without restrictions, without an agenda for the supremacy of the huge multinationals and their social and financial engineering? ' As I said before, there are committees that are actually listening to the specific needs of the different communities. For sure there will be some restrictions- why else would there be a need for a new Codex? But restrictions are not always bad, the Yi Jing is full of examples of restraint ;-) We do need identity and quality checks with what's being offered on the European market. And from what I hear Americans have also grown weary of things Chinese. The biggest problem I see is that small businesses will have problems bringing new products on the market, as these will have to be researched and registered (notified) with the EU. This will cost a lot of money. The other option is proving that your product has been safely used for a period of time (I believe 20 years) on the European market, without any problems. Chinese herbs might get exempted from this rule. The committee involved with Chinese herbs knows that Chinese formulas are often individualized and cannot possibly all get tested. They are willing to accept this. The formulas will have to be mixed in a clean room when they are granules. Raw herbs cooked together would be regarded as food stuff with much more relaxed rules. Tom Verhaeghe Stationsplein 59 8770 Ingelmunster www.chinese- geneeskunde. be _____ Traditional_ Chinese_Medicine [Traditional_ Chinese_Medicine ] On Behalf Of mystir zaterdag 21 februari 2009 8:53 RE: Re: Herbs in Italy, to Tom Tom, I've been thinking about this today. Firstly, I want and need to apologize to you for being so heavy and emotional and self righteous with you about this big subject. The information you were sharing I didn't respect, and railed on about so much, that I cut you off, instead of allowing a conversation. The concerns I have are real to me, but I made you the bad guy. Sorry. The codex deals with so many food, livestock, medical and manufacturing standards, I would like to think of it as a global information sharing tool, not just a collective legislative body. I'd imagine them as a base of transformation, an enlightened powwow, that holds the universal declaration of human rights as a factor in elevating trading agreements amongst areas and nations. The sea that lifts all the ships, as the saying goes. But that isn't my impression. It may be so in some areas, but I don't know of them, it feels like a Tsunami, more than a cooling rain. Are there instances of the codex groups' promoting indigenious medical systems, even the big TCM market, without restrictions, without an agenda for the supremacy of the huge multinationals and their social and financial engineering? I'm not always an optimist, tho ultimately I am, (rejoice, rejoice, you have no choice). What do you know that can warm me to the codex implementations, even for our medicine? As topics, nations, governments, world systems, all things, come and go, I wanted to say sorry again for being a loudmouth, because there are probably subjects we'd agree on without a hesitation. But I dropped decorum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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