Guest guest Posted February 20, 2009 Report Share Posted February 20, 2009 I have been told that Gui Zhi Tang modified can treat Menopausal Sx, what would the S & S look like in that case and how would they be different from Yin Xu (Zhi Bai Di Huang Wan) or Yin & Yang Xu (Er Xian Tnag)? I have heard that Gui Zhi Fu Zi Tang works too, is that patient exhibiitng extreme yang Xu sx, if so what do they look like? Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 20, 2009 Report Share Posted February 20, 2009 I have used Gui Pi Tang very successfully. I would use it when the hot flashes are mild and the qi deficiency is severe. It's hard to explain because some of the chief ingredients raise the qi, however, many of my clients use straight self-prescribed ginseng for hotflashes and have good results. Regards, Angela Pfaffenberger, Ph.D. angelapfa www.InnerhealthSalem.com Phone: 503 364 3022 - snydez99 Chinese Medicine Friday, February 20, 2009 8:56 AM Gui Zhi Tang Menopasual Sx? I have been told that Gui Zhi Tang modified can treat Menopausal Sx, what would the S & S look like in that case and how would they be different from Yin Xu (Zhi Bai Di Huang Wan) or Yin & Yang Xu (Er Xian Tnag)? I have heard that Gui Zhi Fu Zi Tang works too, is that patient exhibiitng extreme yang Xu sx, if so what do they look like? Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 21, 2009 Report Share Posted February 21, 2009 I have heard that Gui Zhi Fu Zi Tang works too, is that patient exhibiitng extreme yang Xu sx, if so what do they look like? some menopausal women have a mix of yin & yg xu, which can be confusing and diff to tx when hot flashes are part of the sx. generally you'll see a mix of hot and cold sx: hotflashes/nsw, insomnia, anxiety/depp, aver to cold/cold easily, pale T, wet (could also be red, red tip, or flux btwn red and pale), weak, submerged P. P could also be weak and thready. as yn and yg are mutually engendering, with mixed sx like this, you can ton yg to ton yn. generally this would be done when yg sx are predominate, or you have already tried tx yin H and are not getting the results. with a mix of sx, you would add both heat clearing and warming herbs. this is the tricky part: it is difficult to judge. but you would need to begin somewhere with lower dosages, see what the responce is, and modify accordingly. it can be a brain buster, but a worthwhile approach when you hit it right. to give an example of what i mean: you might begin with a base kid tonic: shan zhu yu, gou qi zi, shan yao, tu si zi (you probably recognize these: they are in the you gui/zou gui kid yn/yg tonic rx), and then and one or 2 heat clearers: eg. sheng di, dan pi and warming herbs (select among fu zi, rou gui, xian lian pi, ba ji tian, amoung others). you could add du zhong, mai men dong, wu wei zi, suan zao ren depending upon presentation, or any other herbs that will round out the formula. if the yg tonics mentioned seem too warm, use other kid yg tonics that are more neutral to sl warm in the beginning, and modify based on response. of course other rx and herbs could be used. i chose these as a demo of the theory i was describing so you could get a picture of how to do it. its a rough/crude example just meant to give an idea of what i mean. actually, if you have jane lyttleton's infertility book, she explains this concept with more elegant examples than what i gave here. hope this helps, kath On Fri, Feb 20, 2009 at 11:56 AM, snydez99 <snydez99 wrote: > I have been told that Gui Zhi Tang modified can treat Menopausal Sx, > what would the S & S look like in that case and how would they be > different from Yin Xu (Zhi Bai Di Huang Wan) or Yin & Yang Xu (Er Xian > Tnag)? I have heard that Gui Zhi Fu Zi Tang works too, is that patient > exhibiitng extreme yang Xu sx, if so what do they look like? > Steve > > > -- Kath Bartlett, LAc, MS, BA UCLA Oriental Medicine Experienced, Dedicated, Effective Kath's Blog about , Healthy Living & Spirituality: http://acukath.blogspot.com/ Flying Dragon Liniment: Effective pain relief for muscles & joints Formulated by Kath Bartlett, Traditional Chinese Herbalist Available at Asheville Center for : www.FlyingDragonLiniment.com and from the following supply companies: Kamwo Herbal Pharmacy: NY - Chinatown https://www.kamwo.com/shop/product.php?productid=17442 & cat=0 & page=1 Golden Needle Acupuncture, Herbal & Medical Supply - Candler, NC http://www.goldenneedleonline.com/index.php?page=categories & category=14 & vendor= & \ product=5554 & pg= Asheville Center For 70 Woodfin Place, Suite West Wing Two Asheville, NC 28801 828.258.2777 kbartlett www.AcupunctureAsheville.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 21, 2009 Report Share Posted February 21, 2009  To throw in my own little bit of advice here:   It is so important to get a clear picture of the patient's background..   Sometimes, especially when a patient seems atypical, or their presentation is complex, it is useful to ignore, forget and throw out the window the patient's complaints and presenting problems. Then you work to get a really clear picture of what their whole life was characterised by. Usually, when this is done, everythign falls into place with its proper priority.   I have treated a substantial number of women with hot flashes by never treating their hot flahses, and treating for their lifelong imbalance instead.   Hugo Hugo Ramiro http://middlemedicine.wordpress.com http://www.chinesemedicaltherapies.org  Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 21, 2009 Report Share Posted February 21, 2009 I think gui zhi in the right dose has some property to guide flaring endogenous fire back to the mingmen From Bob Flaw's website: http://www.bluepoppy.com/cfwebstorefb/index.cfm?fuseaction=feature.display & featu\ re_id=811 Chinese Medicine , " Kath Bartlett, MS, LAc " wrote: > > I have heard that Gui Zhi Fu Zi Tang works too, is that patient > exhibiitng extreme yang Xu sx, if so what do they look like? > > some menopausal women have a mix of yin & yg xu, which can be confusing and > diff to tx when hot flashes are part of the sx. generally you'll see a mix > of hot and cold sx: hotflashes/nsw, insomnia, anxiety/depp, aver to > cold/cold easily, pale T, wet (could also be red, red tip, or flux btwn red > and pale), weak, submerged P. P could also be weak and thready. > > as yn and yg are mutually engendering, with mixed sx like this, you can ton > yg to ton yn. generally this would be done when yg sx are predominate, or > you have already tried tx yin H and are not getting the results. with a mix > of sx, you would add both heat clearing and warming herbs. this is the > tricky part: it is difficult to judge. but you would need to begin > somewhere with lower dosages, see what the responce is, and modify > accordingly. it can be a brain buster, but a worthwhile approach when you > hit it right. > > to give an example of what i mean: you might begin with a base kid tonic: > shan zhu yu, gou qi zi, shan yao, tu si zi (you probably recognize these: > they are in the you gui/zou gui kid yn/yg tonic rx), and then and one or 2 > heat clearers: eg. sheng di, dan pi and warming herbs (select among fu zi, > rou gui, xian lian pi, ba ji tian, amoung others). you could add du zhong, > mai men dong, wu wei zi, suan zao ren depending upon presentation, or any > other herbs that will round out the formula. if the yg tonics mentioned > seem too warm, use other kid yg tonics that are more neutral to sl warm in > the beginning, and modify based on response. > > of course other rx and herbs could be used. i chose these as a demo of the > theory i was describing so you could get a picture of how to do it. its a > rough/crude example just meant to give an idea of what i mean. actually, if > you have jane lyttleton's infertility book, she explains this concept with > more elegant examples than what i gave here. > > hope this helps, > > kath > > On Fri, Feb 20, 2009 at 11:56 AM, snydez99 <snydez99 wrote: > > > I have been told that Gui Zhi Tang modified can treat Menopausal Sx, > > what would the S & S look like in that case and how would they be > > different from Yin Xu (Zhi Bai Di Huang Wan) or Yin & Yang Xu (Er Xian > > Tnag)? I have heard that Gui Zhi Fu Zi Tang works too, is that patient > > exhibiitng extreme yang Xu sx, if so what do they look like? > > Steve > > > > > > > > > > -- > Kath Bartlett, LAc, MS, BA UCLA > Oriental Medicine > Experienced, Dedicated, Effective > > Kath's Blog about , Healthy Living & Spirituality: > http://acukath.blogspot.com/ > > Flying Dragon Liniment: Effective pain relief for muscles & joints > Formulated by Kath Bartlett, Traditional Chinese Herbalist > Available at Asheville Center for : > www.FlyingDragonLiniment.com > > and from the following supply companies: > Kamwo Herbal Pharmacy: NY - Chinatown > https://www.kamwo.com/shop/product.php?productid=17442 & cat=0 & page=1 > > Golden Needle Acupuncture, Herbal & Medical Supply - Candler, NC > http://www.goldenneedleonline.com/index.php?page=categories & category=14 & vendor= & \ product=5554 & pg= > > > Asheville Center For > 70 Woodfin Place, Suite West Wing Two > Asheville, NC 28801 828.258.2777 > kbartlett > www.AcupunctureAsheville.com > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 22, 2009 Report Share Posted February 22, 2009 Hi I asked this question of one of my teachers, he said he would almost never use Fu Zi(too hot & too harsh) on a menopausal women exhibiting heat signs unless yang was floating. He said that one needs to asume that a woman has been bleeding for 30 or more years so really blood/yin vacuity is the root. I also looked up Jane Lyettleton on the web sometimes with flusing up sx a very small amount of Rou Gui. Steve In Chinese Medicine , " Kath Bartlett, MS, LAc " wrote: > > I have heard that Gui Zhi Fu Zi Tang works too, is that patient > exhibiitng extreme yang Xu sx, if so what do they look like? > > some menopausal women have a mix of yin & yg xu, which can be confusing and > diff to tx when hot flashes are part of the sx. generally you'll see a mix > of hot and cold sx: hotflashes/nsw, insomnia, anxiety/depp, aver to > cold/cold easily, pale T, wet (could also be red, red tip, or flux btwn red > and pale), weak, submerged P. P could also be weak and thready. > > as yn and yg are mutually engendering, with mixed sx like this, you can ton > yg to ton yn. generally this would be done when yg sx are predominate, or > you have already tried tx yin H and are not getting the results. with a mix > of sx, you would add both heat clearing and warming herbs. this is the > tricky part: it is difficult to judge. but you would need to begin > somewhere with lower dosages, see what the responce is, and modify > accordingly. it can be a brain buster, but a worthwhile approach when you > hit it right. > > to give an example of what i mean: you might begin with a base kid tonic: > shan zhu yu, gou qi zi, shan yao, tu si zi (you probably recognize these: > they are in the you gui/zou gui kid yn/yg tonic rx), and then and one or 2 > heat clearers: eg. sheng di, dan pi and warming herbs (select among fu zi, > rou gui, xian lian pi, ba ji tian, amoung others). you could add du zhong, > mai men dong, wu wei zi, suan zao ren depending upon presentation, or any > other herbs that will round out the formula. if the yg tonics mentioned > seem too warm, use other kid yg tonics that are more neutral to sl warm in > the beginning, and modify based on response. > > of course other rx and herbs could be used. i chose these as a demo of the > theory i was describing so you could get a picture of how to do it. its a > rough/crude example just meant to give an idea of what i mean. actually, if > you have jane lyttleton's infertility book, she explains this concept with > more elegant examples than what i gave here. > > hope this helps, > > kath > > On Fri, Feb 20, 2009 at 11:56 AM, snydez99 <snydez99 wrote: > > > I have been told that Gui Zhi Tang modified can treat Menopausal Sx, > > what would the S & S look like in that case and how would they be > > different from Yin Xu (Zhi Bai Di Huang Wan) or Yin & Yang Xu (Er Xian > > Tnag)? I have heard that Gui Zhi Fu Zi Tang works too, is that patient > > exhibiitng extreme yang Xu sx, if so what do they look like? > > Steve > > > > > > > > > > -- > Kath Bartlett, LAc, MS, BA UCLA > Oriental Medicine > Experienced, Dedicated, Effective > > Kath's Blog about , Healthy Living & Spirituality: > http://acukath.blogspot.com/ > > Flying Dragon Liniment: Effective pain relief for muscles & joints > Formulated by Kath Bartlett, Traditional Chinese Herbalist > Available at Asheville Center for : > www.FlyingDragonLiniment.com > > and from the following supply companies: > Kamwo Herbal Pharmacy: NY - Chinatown > https://www.kamwo.com/shop/product.php?productid=17442 & cat=0 & page=1 > > Golden Needle Acupuncture, Herbal & Medical Supply - Candler, NC > http://www.goldenneedleonline.com/index.php? page=categories & category=14 & vendor= & product=5554 & pg= > > > Asheville Center For > 70 Woodfin Place, Suite West Wing Two > Asheville, NC 28801 828.258.2777 > kbartlett > www.AcupunctureAsheville.com > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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