Toenail Fungus

[Guest guest]

You can try tu jin liniment. It¹s inexpensive and works at least half the

time. 1 drop on each nail 2x daily

Cara

 

> anyone treated toenail fungus.

> patient has tried western route with no success.

>

Chinese Herbal Medicine offers various professional services, including board

> approved continuing education classes, an annual conference and a free

> discussion forum in Chinese Herbal Medicine.

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

I had good results with topical oregano essential oil for the night, plus

Listerine on the toes for the day time. Only cotton fabric for feet, wash and

dry feet thoroughly, before using oil. If there is any fungal stuff between

the toes and/or other parts of the feet it should be taken care of. Takes a

while, nails grow slowly. Good luck. Alex Zide L.Ac.

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

My first clinic case was toenail fungus. I should have walked out and asked

for another patient.

 

He was actually pretty interesting. He spent some time in the jungle/swamp

and contracted a number of interesting and poorly defined diseases which he

claimed to have gotten over. He was in his twenties and had a variety of

yin vacuity signs that today I wouldn't expect in someone of that age. His

tongue was cracked, red and peeled, I don't recall the pulse other than it

being strange rapid and slippery. My supervisor and I eventually decided the

various damp heat related pathogens had cooked his yin and set up house. We

used a combination of er miao san and er zhi wan to clear dampheat in the

lower body and supplement yin without cloying, Topically we used the

commercially available tu jin pi extract, which I think has some other stuff

in it. He was not a great patient, I was and am not a great practitioner,

nonetheless, he cleared the fungus from a couple of the lighter areas and

all seemed to be progressing. He kept whining about the tu jin pi staining

his toenails, I kept telling him he would have to get a decent nights sleep

if he wanted to address his constitutional issues. He bailed and I think he

took some of that internal pharmaceutical fungicide that turns your liver

into Swiss-cheese. I ran into him in the street about a year later and he

said it hadn't worked. In all we treated him for almost three months and

there was a greater than 50% reduction in the effected area on the big toes.

 

Since then I generally use internal medicine to address whatever is going on

there and use topical tu jin pi (grind, soak w/ vodka) and tea tree oil

mixed about 1-1. This isn't invariably successful I have also treated what

appeared to be a fungally infected fingernail with grapefruit seed extract,

which worked OK, but seemed to take an awful long time.

 

Patterns: In older people there seems to be blood vacuity, which makes sense

in terms of nails being the flourishing of the liver and an extension of the

tendons. I think there is usually an element of damp heat corrupting the

sinews, especially if the persons yin/blood is fairly intact. The newish

Donica " Dermatology in TCM " book by Xu Yihou has some interesting looking

topicals you may wish to look at it.

 

Par Scott

 

-

" jenandsteve02 " <spader9

 

Tuesday, May 10, 2005 10:14 PM

toenail fungus

 

 

> anyone treated toenail fungus.

> patient has tried western route with no success.

>

>

Chinese Herbal Medicine offers various professional services, including

> board approved continuing education classes, an annual conference and a

> free discussion forum in Chinese Herbal Medicine.

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

, " jenandsteve02 "

<spader9@j...> wrote:

> anyone treated toenail fungus.

> patient has tried western route with no success.

 

my chinese professor usualy prescribes " black vinegar from chinese

market " , topically.

[Guest guest]

Listerine

>>>>Alex, why listerine?

 

 

 

 

Oakland, CA 94609

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Cus your feet will be minty fresh!

-

" " <alonmarcus

 

Thursday, May 12, 2005 10:11 PM

Re: toenail fungus

 

 

> Listerine

>>>>>Alex, why listerine?

>

>

>

>

> Oakland, CA 94609

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

I think the fungus is aerobic. It's not Chinese

medicine, but covering the nail with nail polish and

touching it up for a few months seems to prevent the

fungus spreading to new nail growth.

 

Also, it seems to disappear during pregnancy

(according to one person).

 

--chris

 

Message: 23

Wed, 11 May 2005 02:14:42 -0000

" jenandsteve02 " <spader9

toenail fungus

 

anyone treated toenail fungus.

patient has tried western route with no success.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

...................A geranium by any other name would be easier to spell.

--Ed Flanagan, the Bard of Florida

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

One of the active ingredients in lysterine is thymol, from thyme

which I believe is anti-everything. There is an interesting OTC

product called Alkalol which contains many plant extracts(thymol,

eucalyptol, menthol,alum, etc.) and is available at CVS (big

drugstore) and is useful as a nasal douche. Golden Flower has a

product with oregano oil plus huang lian etc. that they recommend

for toenail fungus.

 

 

, " Par Scott "

<parufus@e...> wrote:

> Cus your feet will be minty fresh!

> -

> " " <alonmarcus@w...>

>

> Thursday, May 12, 2005 10:11 PM

> Re: toenail fungus

>

>

> > Listerine

> >>>>>Alex, why listerine?

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > Oakland, CA 94609

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

What kind of western med do you mean? We have a special nail polish in

Germany to put on and often that is enough, if not they use a special antifungal

for that to be taken orally which works. heavy stuff I think but usually quite

well tolerated

 

Best regards,

Andrea Hehlmann, Dr.med.vet.,MRCVS

Tel.02086607954

Hair of the dog

Hehlis Holistics

www.hehlis-holistics.com

info

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

When treating a toenail fungus, one should remember that it takes a full

year for the toenail to grow completely from bed to " cuttable " length. (6

months for the fingernail) so, if you are going to kill the fungus,

treatment should continue for the full year - and this is really hard for

the patient. There are several external formulas one could use.

 

1. Soak the foot in vinegar for 15 - 20 minutes. Cut the nail back as far

as possible.

 

2. Make a soak:

 

JIng JIe 18g

HOng Hua 18g

Zao Jiao 30g

Ming Fan 18g

Fang Feng 18g

Di Gu Pi 18g

Da Feng Zi 30g

 

Soak in vinegar for 1 - 2 weeks. Soak feet for 30 minutes 1 -2 times/day.

 

Treatment should continue until there is an entire new nail or there will

most likely just be a re-infection.

 

This is from Mazin Al-Khafaji.

 

Marnae

 

At 10:05 PM 5/16/2005, you wrote:

>jenandsteve wwote:

> > anyone treated toenail fungus. patient has tried western route with no

> > success.

>

>I have not treated toenail fungus but have used 2.5% copper sulphate

>successfully for " athlete's foot " in humans and interdigital dermatitis in

>dogs. I applied the solution as a toe-bath, on on a cotton-bud between

>the toes, 2-3 times at interval of 2-3 days. A variant for athlete's foot

>uses 2.5% bluestone + 2.5% zinc sulphate.

>

>Bluestone (usually mixed with washing soda) was the traditional spray

>used to prevent / control blight (fungal disease) in potatoes and grape-

>vines.

>

>I suspect that it may help in toenail fungus also.

>

>Best regards,

>

>

>Tel: (H): +353-(0) or (M): +353-(0)

>

>

>

>

>Ireland.

>Tel: (W): +353-(0) or (M): +353-(0)

>

>

>

> " Man who says it can't be done should not interrupt man doing it " -

>Chinese Proverb

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Just to clarify the below:

 

One should first soak the foot in vinegar, then trim/file back as far as

possible and then soak for 15 - 20 minutes in the herbal formula.

 

Marnae

 

At 09:44 AM 5/17/2005, you wrote:

>When treating a toenail fungus, one should remember that it takes a full

>year for the toenail to grow completely from bed to " cuttable " length. (6

>months for the fingernail) so, if you are going to kill the fungus,

>treatment should continue for the full year - and this is really hard for

>the patient. There are several external formulas one could use.

>

>1. Soak the foot in vinegar for 15 - 20 minutes. Cut the nail back as far

>as possible.

>

>2. Make a soak:

>

>JIng JIe 18g

>HOng Hua 18g

>Zao Jiao 30g

>Ming Fan 18g

>Fang Feng 18g

>Di Gu Pi 18g

>Da Feng Zi 30g

>

>Soak in vinegar for 1 - 2 weeks. Soak feet for 30 minutes 1 -2 times/day.

>

>Treatment should continue until there is an entire new nail or there will

>most likely just be a re-infection.

>

>This is from Mazin Al-Khafaji.

>

>Marnae

>

>At 10:05 PM 5/16/2005, you wrote:

> >jenandsteve wwote:

> > > anyone treated toenail fungus. patient has tried western route with no

> > > success.

> >

> >I have not treated toenail fungus but have used 2.5% copper sulphate

> >successfully for " athlete's foot " in humans and interdigital dermatitis in

> >dogs. I applied the solution as a toe-bath, on on a cotton-bud between

> >the toes, 2-3 times at interval of 2-3 days. A variant for athlete's foot

> >uses 2.5% bluestone + 2.5% zinc sulphate.

> >

> >Bluestone (usually mixed with washing soda) was the traditional spray

> >used to prevent / control blight (fungal disease) in potatoes and grape-

> >vines.

> >

> >I suspect that it may help in toenail fungus also.

> >

> >Best regards,

> >

> >

> >Tel: (H): +353-(0) or (M): +353-(0)

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >Ireland.

> >Tel: (W): +353-(0) or (M): +353-(0)

> >

> >

> >

> > " Man who says it can't be done should not interrupt man doing it " -

> >Chinese Proverb

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

One should first soak the foot in vinegar, then trim/file back as far as

possible and then soak for 15 - 20 minutes in the herbal formula.

 

Marnae

 

>>>>>Daily? that would be a lot of time investment. A topical antifungal with

DMSO is a lot simpler

 

 

 

 

 

Oakland, CA 94609

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

At 01:14 PM 5/17/2005, you wrote:

>One should first soak the foot in vinegar, then trim/file back as far as

>possible and then soak for 15 - 20 minutes in the herbal formula.

>

>Marnae

>

> >>>>>Daily? that would be a lot of time investment. A topical antifungal

> with DMSO is a lot simpler

 

 

>

 

Granted - I have had 2 -3 patients do this and been happy with it, but they

have to want to do it or to have tried everything else and failed.

 

Marnae

 

 

>

>Oakland, CA 94609

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Marnae,

 

Are you saying that those patients had tried the DMSO and it had

failed? Just curious.

 

Bob

[Guest guest]

This is what they told me - now, whether they were using it correctly or

not, I don't know. But, when they were really consistent with the formula

it did work. Most patients give up midway.

 

Marnae

 

At 02:13 PM 5/17/2005, you wrote:

>Marnae,

>

>Are you saying that those patients had tried the DMSO and it had

>failed? Just curious.

>

>Bob

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>Chinese Herbal Medicine offers various professional services, including

>board approved continuing education classes, an annual conference and a

>free discussion forum in Chinese Herbal Medicine.

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

The DMSO and antifungal also take a long time, 6 months or so and many do not

followthrugh

 

 

 

 

Oakland, CA 94609

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

, " "

<alonmarcus@w...> wrote:

> The DMSO and antifungal also take a long time, 6 months or so and

many do not followthrugh

>

>

>

 

Alon,

Which antifungal have you found to be most effective?

 

Thanks,

Jill Likkel

[Guest guest]

Which antifungal have you found to be most effective?

>>>>>Most pharmacies use fluconazole or ketoconazole

 

 

 

 

Oakland, CA 94609

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Where can you get this linament?

[Guest guest]

, " "

<alonmarcus@w...> wrote:

> Which antifungal have you found to be most effective?

> >>>>>Most pharmacies use fluconazole or ketoconazole

>

 

 

Thanks Alon but I thought you meant herbal antifungals. Most, if

not all of the patients that I have seen are not interested in the

Biomedicine route. They have either tried it and the fungus

returned or are concerned about toxicity. Would the DMSO be helpful

with herbals? Does anyone have experience with this? What are the

risks or downside of using DMSO?

 

Many people on this list wrote in about the herbal solutions to the

dreaded toenail fungus but what I want to know who has SEEN any of

these solutions actually WORK? Has anyone heard of any studies on

toenail fungus and herbal medicine?

 

And why does toenail fungus seem so prevalent nowadays? Is it

because we are all so damp from all the sugar, white bread and dairy

products? Or...?

 

I have patients who have tried everything from teatree oil to

oregano to vinegar to VicsVaporub to OTC and Rx and not had it

work. I want to see proof. Before and after pictures and a follow-

up report a year later. Anyone?

 

thanks

Jill Likkel

[Guest guest]

Hi jill,

 

Try the following four part solution which I have used successfully:

1. Determine the differential diagnosis. Dampness for sure, wind if

itching, and heat /fire toxin if red and hot. Treat the root as well:

dampness generally means concurrent spleen deficiency, the wind/heat most

probably means concurrrent yin deficiency . 2. H2O2 (hydrogen peroxide)

which is cheap and effective. Get a basin and soak the feet in a

solution of 1/2 water and 1/2 H2O2, 15 minutes mornings and evenings, for

2 weeks. 3. After soaking, apply Tu Jin liniment. Again, a cheap and

effective patent tincture containing herbs that address dampness and

heat. 4. Modify diet to support the differential diagnosis. Make sure

to avoid those foods and habits which exascerbate the pattern.

 

Best of luck,

 

Yehuda

 

On Fri, 20 May 2005 05:36:00 -0000 " Jill A. Likkel "

<jilllikkel writes:

> , " "

> <alonmarcus@w...> wrote:

> > Which antifungal have you found to be most effective?

> > >>>>>Most pharmacies use fluconazole or ketoconazole

> >

>

>

> Thanks Alon but I thought you meant herbal antifungals. Most, if

> not all of the patients that I have seen are not interested in the

> Biomedicine route. They have either tried it and the fungus

> returned or are concerned about toxicity. Would the DMSO be helpful

>

> with herbals? Does anyone have experience with this? What are the

> risks or downside of using DMSO?

>

> Many people on this list wrote in about the herbal solutions to the

> dreaded toenail fungus but what I want to know who has SEEN any of

> these solutions actually WORK? Has anyone heard of any studies on

> toenail fungus and herbal medicine?

>

> And why does toenail fungus seem so prevalent nowadays? Is it

> because we are all so damp from all the sugar, white bread and dairy

>

> products? Or...?

>

> I have patients who have tried everything from teatree oil to

> oregano to vinegar to VicsVaporub to OTC and Rx and not had it

> work. I want to see proof. Before and after pictures and a follow-

> up report a year later. Anyone?

>

> thanks

> Jill Likkel

>

>

 

[Guest guest]

, " Jill A. Likkel "

<jilllikkel@h...> wrote:

> Many people on this list wrote in about the herbal solutions to

the

> dreaded toenail fungus but what I want to know who has SEEN any

of

> these solutions actually WORK?

 

In the Chinese pharmacy where I used to work, the boss had an oily

paste made with Chinese meds that was topically applied to the

nail. It worked on the one case that I saw it used in. The boss

says that it typically works, but it takes months and months of

daily application. The paste is black, so it would make someone

feel very conspicuous if they had to apply it to a fingernail

instead of a toenail. Plus, the long course of treatment is a

serious roadblock to compliance.

 

In the case that I saw, the nail had to completely regrow before the

condition was resolved. I don't know whether or not it ever

recurred. The paste was not expensive, but it was homemade, very

thick, and easily stained anything that it touched. Like most

formulas used by practitioners who studied in the old lineage style,

the recipe was kept in house as a family secret. Because the

Chinese often shop around for cures for common ailments like skin

problems, many pharmacists seem to have a lot of experience with

them. Unfortunately, pharmacists hardly ever publish or share their

recipes since the recipes are what insures that their customers

return.

 

Eric

[Guest guest]

A I mentioned on a previous post: tu Jin :Liniment works 50% of the time. I

think that¹s pretty good. Plus it¹s inexpensive. One drop on each nail 2x

day

Cara

 

 

 

 

> , " Jill A. Likkel "

> <jilllikkel@h...> wrote:

>> > Many people on this list wrote in about the herbal solutions to

> the

>> > dreaded toenail fungus but what I want to know who has SEEN any

> of

>> > these solutions actually WORK?

>

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

I want to see proof

>>>Good for you

 

 

 

 

Oakland, CA 94609

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Thanks Cara and Yehuda for the suggestions.

I am interested in Dermatology and I would like to compile a list of

these remedies and then have patients try them out. In the Great Soggy

Northwest we have more than our fair share of this problem. I must

have several patients a day that I notice have it.

 

Alon,

What about the DMSO? Would that help the tu jin linement to be more

effective? Or quicker? Any downside to using it?

 

Thanks,

Jill