[PCOM Alumni] Ethics of sharing downloaded e-book files?

[Guest guest]

I think it's ethical only if you get permission from the author and/or

publisher.

 

Andrea Beth

 

Traditional Oriental Medicine

Happy Hours in the CALM Center

1770 E. Villa Drive, Suite 5

Cottonwood, AZ  86326

(928) 274-1373

 

 

--- On Sun, 2/8/09, Jamie Koonce <jamie wrote:

Jamie Koonce <jamie

Re: [PCOM Alumni] Ethics of sharing downloaded e-book files?

" "

Cc: " PCOM Alumni " <alumni, " TCM List "

<Chinese Traditional Medicine >

Sunday, February 8, 2009, 3:24 PM

 

Dan Kennedy, a marketing genius, prevents the sharing of downloadable files and

hardcopies of his audio recordings by a special technology that renders these

files unusable when shared.  If someone is selling a downloadable or hardcopy

product without any technological plagiarism prevention devices, then in my

opinion you can share it.

 

 

 

On Sat, Feb 7, 2009 at 1:55 PM,

wrote:

 

a colleague has approached me about sharing the cost of a $50 e-book download &

printing/copying on an out of print book.  we figured by sharing the cost we'd

pay approx $25 ea.  i am concerned about the ethics of file sharing intellectual

property.  the book is out of print, but the author offers the download for

$50.  (this is TCM material).

 

 

what do you think about downloading one copy, and then printing copies for 3

practitioners?  ethical or no can do?

 

kath

 

--

Kath Bartlett, LAc, MS,  BA UCLA

Oriental Medicine

 

Experienced, Dedicated, Effective

 

Kath's Blog about , Healthy Living & Spirituality:

http://acukath.blogspot.com/

 

Flying Dragon Liniment:  Effective pain relief for muscles & joints

 

Formulated by Kath Bartlett, Traditional Chinese Herbalist

Available at Asheville Center for :

www.FlyingDragonLiniment.com

 

and from the following supply companies:

 

Kamwo Herbal Pharmacy: NY - Chinatown

https://www.kamwo.com/shop/product.php?productid=17442 & cat=0 & page=1

 

 

Golden Needle Acupuncture, Herbal & Medical Supply - Candler, NC

http://www.goldenneedleonline.com/index.php?page=categories & category=14 & vendor= & \

product=5554 & pg=

 

 

 

Asheville Center For

70 Woodfin Place, Suite West Wing Two

Asheville, NC  28801     828.258.2777

kbartlett

www.AcupunctureAsheville.com

 

 

_____________

Alumni mailing list

Alumni

http://mail.pacificcollege.edu/mailman/listinfo/alumni

 

 

 

 

 

--

http://www.jamiekoonce.com/servicesandproducts

 

 

http://www.tcmdirectory.com/jamie-koonce.html

 

 

 

_____________

Alumni mailing list

Alumni

http://mail.pacificcollege.edu/mailman/listinfo/alumni

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Hey, Yael! 

 

Good point!  Somebody did this to me last year, and I was pissed!  Someone came

and stole all the plums off of my tree - every last blessed one of them!  I was

also astounded that someone would actually do this!

 

Andrea Beth

 

Traditional Oriental Medicine

Happy Hours in the CALM Center

1770 E. Villa Drive, Suite 5

Cottonwood, AZ  86326

(928) 274-1373

 

 

--- On Sun, 2/8/09, Yael Shapiro <yaelshapiro wrote:

Yael Shapiro <yaelshapiro

Re: [PCOM Alumni] Ethics of sharing downloaded e-book files?

" Jamie Koonce " <jamie, alumni-bounces,

" "

Cc: " PCOM Alumni " <alumni, " TCM List "

<Chinese Traditional Medicine >

Sunday, February 8, 2009, 5:23 PM

 

Jamie,

You mean, if someone doesn't have a fence around his yard, it's ok to

still his fruit from the trees?

Yael

Sent from my BlackBerry wireless handheld.

 

 

Jamie Koonce <jamie

 

Sun, 8 Feb 2009 16:24:38

 

Cc: PCOM Alumni<alumni; TCM

List<Chinese Traditional Medicine >

Re: [PCOM Alumni] Ethics of sharing downloaded e-book files?

 

 

_____________

Alumni mailing list

Alumni

http://mail.pacificcollege.edu/mailman/listinfo/alumni

 

_____________

Alumni mailing list

Alumni

http://mail.pacificcollege.edu/mailman/listinfo/alumni

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

A few years ago, Redwing books or Paradigm press (forgot which one) lost

over a million dollars,

because some people were scanning text books and putting them on dvds (and

selling them as well).

I think that's disgusting and a huge disservice to the profession.

 

As far as going into buying a downloadable book or dvd and sharing the

costs,

what are the legalities in distributing it to others?

 

One way to protect this from happening is to get it where your program/book

is hardware encoded

(only accessible for download to the computer that is downloading it).

Qpuncture knows how to do this.

I think it's a good system and can save people from the almost inevitable

guilt that can occur.

 

K.

 

 

 

On Sun, Feb 8, 2009 at 4:43 PM, <wrote:

 

> Hey, Yael!

>

> Good point! Somebody did this to me last year, and I was pissed! Someone

> came and stole all the plums off of my tree - every last blessed one of

> them! I was also astounded that someone would actually do this!

>

>

> Andrea Beth

>

> Traditional Oriental Medicine

> Happy Hours in the CALM Center

> 1770 E. Villa Drive, Suite 5

> Cottonwood, AZ 86326

> (928) 274-1373

>

> --- On Sun, 2/8/09, Yael Shapiro

<yaelshapiro<yaelshapiro%40gmail.com>>

> wrote:

> Yael Shapiro <yaelshapiro <yaelshapiro%40gmail.com>>

> Re: [PCOM Alumni] Ethics of sharing downloaded e-book files?

> " Jamie Koonce " <jamie <jamie%40jamiekoonce.com>>,

> alumni-bounces <alumni-bounces%40pacificcollege.edu>,

> " " <acukath <acukath%40gmail.com>>

> Cc: " PCOM Alumni " <alumni <alumni%40pacificcollege.edu>>,

> " TCM List "

<Chinese Traditional Medicine <Chinese Traditional Medicine%40yah\

oogroups.com>

> >

> Sunday, February 8, 2009, 5:23 PM

>

> Jamie,

> You mean, if someone doesn't have a fence around his yard, it's ok to

> still his fruit from the trees?

> Yael

> Sent from my BlackBerry wireless handheld.

>

>

> Jamie Koonce <jamie <jamie%40jamiekoonce.com>>

>

> Sun, 8 Feb 2009 16:24:38

> <acukath <acukath%40gmail.com>>

> Cc: PCOM Alumni<alumni <alumni%40pacificcollege.edu>>;

> TCM

>

List<Chinese Traditional Medicine <Chinese Traditional Medicine%4\

0>

> >

> Re: [PCOM Alumni] Ethics of sharing downloaded e-book files?

>

> _____________

> Alumni mailing list

> Alumni <Alumni%40pacificcollege.edu>

> http://mail.pacificcollege.edu/mailman/listinfo/alumni

>

> _____________

> Alumni mailing list

> Alumni <Alumni%40pacificcollege.edu>

> http://mail.pacificcollege.edu/mailman/listinfo/alumni

>

>

[Guest guest]

Look at the copyright laws and have respect for the publisher.

 

On Sun, Feb 8, 2009 at 4:36 PM, <wrote:

 

> I think it's ethical only if you get permission from the author and/or

> publisher.

>

> Andrea Beth

>

> Traditional Oriental Medicine

> Happy Hours in the CALM Center

> 1770 E. Villa Drive, Suite 5

> Cottonwood, AZ 86326

> (928) 274-1373

>

> --- On Sun, 2/8/09, Jamie Koonce

<jamie<jamie%40jamiekoonce.com>>

> wrote:

> Jamie Koonce <jamie <jamie%40jamiekoonce.com>>

> Re: [PCOM Alumni] Ethics of sharing downloaded e-book files?

> " " <acukath <acukath%40gmail.com>>

> Cc: " PCOM Alumni " <alumni <alumni%40pacificcollege.edu>>,

> " TCM List "

<Chinese Traditional Medicine <Chinese Traditional Medicine%40yah\

oogroups.com>

> >

> Sunday, February 8, 2009, 3:24 PM

>

> Dan Kennedy, a marketing genius, prevents the sharing of downloadable files

> and hardcopies of his audio recordings by a special technology that renders

> these files unusable when shared. If someone is selling a downloadable or

> hardcopy product without any technological plagiarism prevention devices,

> then in my opinion you can share it.

>

> On Sat, Feb 7, 2009 at 1:55 PM,

<acukath<acukath%40gmail.com>>

> wrote:

>

> a colleague has approached me about sharing the cost of a $50 e-book

> download & printing/copying on an out of print book. we figured by sharing

> the cost we'd pay approx $25 ea. i am concerned about the ethics of file

> sharing intellectual property. the book is out of print, but the author

> offers the download for $50. (this is TCM material).

>

> what do you think about downloading one copy, and then printing copies for

> 3 practitioners? ethical or no can do?

>

> kath

>

> --

> Kath Bartlett, LAc, MS, BA UCLA

> Oriental Medicine

>

> Experienced, Dedicated, Effective

>

> Kath's Blog about , Healthy Living & Spirituality:

> http://acukath.blogspot.com/

>

> Flying Dragon Liniment: Effective pain relief for muscles & joints

>

> Formulated by Kath Bartlett, Traditional Chinese Herbalist

> Available at Asheville Center for :

> www.FlyingDragonLiniment.com <http://www.flyingdragonliniment.com/>

>

> and from the following supply companies:

>

> Kamwo Herbal Pharmacy: NY - Chinatown

> https://www.kamwo.com/shop/product.php?productid=17442 & cat=0 & page=1

>

> Golden Needle Acupuncture, Herbal & Medical Supply - Candler, NC

>

>

http://www.goldenneedleonline.com/index.php?page=categories & category=14 & vendor= & \

product=5554 & pg=

>

> Asheville Center For

> 70 Woodfin Place, Suite West Wing Two

> Asheville, NC 28801 828.258.2777

> kbartlett <kbartlett%40AcupunctureAsheville.com>

> www.AcupunctureAsheville.com <http://www.acupunctureasheville.com/>

>

> _____________

> Alumni mailing list

> Alumni <Alumni%40pacificcollege.edu>

> http://mail.pacificcollege.edu/mailman/listinfo/alumni

>

> --

> http://www.jamiekoonce.com/servicesandproducts

>

> http://www.tcmdirectory.com/jamie-koonce.html

>

> _____________

> Alumni mailing list

> Alumni <Alumni%40pacificcollege.edu>

> http://mail.pacificcollege.edu/mailman/listinfo/alumni

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hi All,

 

I have gone back and forth about writing a comment on this thread all

day I think the group opinion on this is (at least from the posts)

is that this is wrong.

 

So I thought I might explore a little bit about why this is wrong.

Obviously, there are copyright infringement problems, and these can

lead to lawsuits, etc. But for me, at least with my publishing

company, I think of sharing files that have been purchased, either

through use of a database or of a pdf of a book, as actually

devastating to our Research and Development as a field.

 

Why I see this as so, is that we are a very small community, by my

estimate less then a million practitioners worldwide, maybe a bit

more. Roughly 16,000 Chinese medicine practitioners in the United

States. This is a tiny market. When a publisher or author commits to

publishing a book, the return on investment (because of the tiny

market) is not made in the short term, but only made in the long term

(sometimes in the span of decades). Some companies do better then

others, and some companies have more material that is circulating then

others, but when we as a field share files or database material, what

we are really doing, is limiting the amount of investment that our

peers can and will do in our field. In other words, a company/author

has to feel like in the near future, it will at least break even when

it has invested heavily of its own time and money to publish a book.

When it does not feel like it can do that, then books are not made.

 

In the piracy scandal that occurred a few years ago, which affected

Eastland, Paradigm, and Blue Poppy, we were all effected by this.

How? Because our big three companies that handle the majority of the

publications for our field cut back on the new books that they were

producing, and hunkered down only printing several new titles each for

the year. They cumulatively did lose millions as companies, so much

so that there is a federal investigation, but it was really us that

lost out.

 

My personal interest is in the Classics of Chinese medicine, the

1000's of texts in China which have never been translated. My modest

company pays translators to translate as many of these texts as we can

afford, where we are constantly re-investing our subscriptions to

translate more material. 6 months ago, I had over 300 pre Republican

period texts in my possession. A combined total of 32 million

characters. If I could fund raise enough money to translate 100,000

characters per month (the Shang Han Lun is 20,000 characters as

comparison), it would take 26 years to translate these 300 books, and

roughly 9 million dollars. I share this with you, because I publish

this material electronically. If someone was to come in, figure out a

way to beat our safeties, and copy our entire database of texts, then

distribute them on the internet/ or to their friends or colleagues, I

would no longer be able to afford to pay the translators that work

with me to translate these never before translated texts. In other

words, I would no longer be able to afford, as a company to do more

Research and more Development (R & D) into the Classical texts. This

would greatly sadden me, as I feel like the Classics are the legacy

that has been handed down to us from generations of Master

practitioners. Surely, as a field, we respect our academics enough to

buy their material and thus support them, so that they can continue to

create more material for us to enjoy in the future.

 

I think the copyright issue is secondary to what we lose as a community.

 

Wishing you all well in the niu year.

 

Sincerely,

 

L.Ac.

The Database

Chinese Medicine

 

 

 

Chinese Medicine , Robert Chu

<chusauli wrote:

>

> Look at the copyright laws and have respect for the publisher.

>

[Guest guest]

Jonathon,

I just signed up for the Database for $20/month (including

access to the translations).

I see 2 translations from Arnaud, a Shang han lun expert that we've been

lucky enough to hang out with for the past year.

Also, I' ve been looking forward to reading Sabine Wilms translation of Sun

Si Miao for a while now.

 

Thanks for putting this together.

We can all undo the negative actions of a few by supporting your translation

 

and comprehensive clinical database group.

 

K.

 

 

 

On Mon, Feb 9, 2009 at 7:59 PM, Chinese Medicine

<jonk2012wrote:

 

> Hi All,

>

> I have gone back and forth about writing a comment on this thread all

> day I think the group opinion on this is (at least from the posts)

> is that this is wrong.

>

> So I thought I might explore a little bit about why this is wrong.

> Obviously, there are copyright infringement problems, and these can

> lead to lawsuits, etc. But for me, at least with my publishing

> company, I think of sharing files that have been purchased, either

> through use of a database or of a pdf of a book, as actually

> devastating to our Research and Development as a field.

>

> Why I see this as so, is that we are a very small community, by my

> estimate less then a million practitioners worldwide, maybe a bit

> more. Roughly 16,000 Chinese medicine practitioners in the United

> States. This is a tiny market. When a publisher or author commits to

> publishing a book, the return on investment (because of the tiny

> market) is not made in the short term, but only made in the long term

> (sometimes in the span of decades). Some companies do better then

> others, and some companies have more material that is circulating then

> others, but when we as a field share files or database material, what

> we are really doing, is limiting the amount of investment that our

> peers can and will do in our field. In other words, a company/author

> has to feel like in the near future, it will at least break even when

> it has invested heavily of its own time and money to publish a book.

> When it does not feel like it can do that, then books are not made.

>

> In the piracy scandal that occurred a few years ago, which affected

> Eastland, Paradigm, and Blue Poppy, we were all effected by this.

> How? Because our big three companies that handle the majority of the

> publications for our field cut back on the new books that they were

> producing, and hunkered down only printing several new titles each for

> the year. They cumulatively did lose millions as companies, so much

> so that there is a federal investigation, but it was really us that

> lost out.

>

> My personal interest is in the Classics of Chinese medicine, the

> 1000's of texts in China which have never been translated. My modest

> company pays translators to translate as many of these texts as we can

> afford, where we are constantly re-investing our subscriptions to

> translate more material. 6 months ago, I had over 300 pre Republican

> period texts in my possession. A combined total of 32 million

> characters. If I could fund raise enough money to translate 100,000

> characters per month (the Shang Han Lun is 20,000 characters as

> comparison), it would take 26 years to translate these 300 books, and

> roughly 9 million dollars. I share this with you, because I publish

> this material electronically. If someone was to come in, figure out a

> way to beat our safeties, and copy our entire database of texts, then

> distribute them on the internet/ or to their friends or colleagues, I

> would no longer be able to afford to pay the translators that work

> with me to translate these never before translated texts. In other

> words, I would no longer be able to afford, as a company to do more

> Research and more Development (R & D) into the Classical texts. This

> would greatly sadden me, as I feel like the Classics are the legacy

> that has been handed down to us from generations of Master

> practitioners. Surely, as a field, we respect our academics enough to

> buy their material and thus support them, so that they can continue to

> create more material for us to enjoy in the future.

>

> I think the copyright issue is secondary to what we lose as a community.

>

> Wishing you all well in the niu year.

>

> Sincerely,

>

> L.Ac.

> The Database

> Chinese Medicine

>

> --- In

Chinese Medicine <Chinese Medicine%40yaho\

ogroups.com>,

> Robert Chu

>

> <chusauli wrote:

> >

> > Look at the copyright laws and have respect for the publisher.

> >

>

>

>

 

 

 

--

 

www.tcmreview.com

 

The Four Reliances:

Do not rely upon the individual, but rely upon the teaching.

As far as teachings go, do not rely upon the words alone, but rely upon the

meaning that underlies them.

Regarding the meaning, do not rely upon the provisional meaning alone, but

rely upon the definitive meaning.

And regarding the definitive meaning, do not rely upon ordinary

consciousness, but rely upon wisdom awareness.

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Jonathan,

 

Thank you for this post.  It really helps to think of the " big picture " , and

your perspective and experience are invaluable in this regard.  I shortened your

email for space considerations only.

 

Andrea Beth

 

Traditional Oriental Medicine

Happy Hours in the CALM Center

1770 E. Villa Drive, Suite 5

Cottonwood, AZ  86326

(928) 274-1373

 

 

--- On Mon, 2/9/09, Chinese Medicine <jonk2012 wrote:

Chinese Medicine <jonk2012

Re: [PCOM Alumni] Ethics of sharing downloaded e-book files?

Chinese Medicine

Monday, February 9, 2009, 8:59 PM

 

Hi All,

 

I have gone back and forth about writing a comment on this thread all

day I think the group opinion on this is (at least from the posts)

is that this is wrong.

 

So I thought I might explore a little bit about why this is wrong.

Obviously, there are copyright infringement problems, and these can

lead to lawsuits, etc. But for me, at least with my publishing

company, I think of sharing files that have been purchased, either

through use of a database or of a pdf of a book, as actually

devastating to our Research and Development as a field.

 

Why I see this as so, is that we are a very small community, by my

estimate less then a million practitioners worldwide, maybe a bit

more. Roughly 16,000 Chinese medicine practitioners in the United

States. This is a tiny market. When a publisher or author commits to

publishing a book, the return on investment (because of the tiny

market) is not made in the short term, but only made in the long term

(sometimes in the span of decades). Some companies do better then

others, and some companies have more material that is circulating then

others, but when we as a field share files or database material, what

we are really doing, is limiting the amount of investment that our

peers can and will do in our field. In other words, a company/author

has to feel like in the near future, it will at least break even when

it has invested heavily of its own time and money to publish a book.

When it does not feel like it can do that, then books are not made.

 

I think the copyright issue is secondary to what we lose as a community.

 

 

Sincerely,

 

L.Ac.

The Database

Chinese Medicine

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Jonathan:

 

i appreciate your thoughtful and eloquent post on the subject. these are

the issues i was thinking about when i thought the file sharing wouldn't be

ethical. may i forward your post to my colleagues?

 

kath

 

On Mon, Feb 9, 2009 at 10:59 PM, Chinese Medicine <jonk2012

> wrote:

 

> Hi All,

>

> I have gone back and forth about writing a comment on this thread all

> day I think the group opinion on this is (at least from the posts)

> is that this is wrong.

>

> So I thought I might explore a little bit about why this is wrong.

> Obviously, there are copyright infringement problems, and these can

> lead to lawsuits, etc. But for me, at least with my publishing

> company, I think of sharing files that have been purchased, either

> through use of a database or of a pdf of a book, as actually

> devastating to our Research and Development as a field.

>

> Why I see this as so, is that we are a very small community, by my

> estimate less then a million practitioners worldwide, maybe a bit

> more. Roughly 16,000 Chinese medicine practitioners in the United

> States. This is a tiny market. When a publisher or author commits to

> publishing a book, the return on investment (because of the tiny

> market) is not made in the short term, but only made in the long term

> (sometimes in the span of decades). Some companies do better then

> others, and some companies have more material that is circulating then

> others, but when we as a field share files or database material, what

> we are really doing, is limiting the amount of investment that our

> peers can and will do in our field. In other words, a company/author

> has to feel like in the near future, it will at least break even when

> it has invested heavily of its own time and money to publish a book.

> When it does not feel like it can do that, then books are not made.

>

> In the piracy scandal that occurred a few years ago, which affected

> Eastland, Paradigm, and Blue Poppy, we were all effected by this.

> How? Because our big three companies that handle the majority of the

> publications for our field cut back on the new books that they were

> producing, and hunkered down only printing several new titles each for

> the year. They cumulatively did lose millions as companies, so much

> so that there is a federal investigation, but it was really us that

> lost out.

>

> My personal interest is in the Classics of Chinese medicine, the

> 1000's of texts in China which have never been translated. My modest

> company pays translators to translate as many of these texts as we can

> afford, where we are constantly re-investing our subscriptions to

> translate more material. 6 months ago, I had over 300 pre Republican

> period texts in my possession. A combined total of 32 million

> characters. If I could fund raise enough money to translate 100,000

> characters per month (the Shang Han Lun is 20,000 characters as

> comparison), it would take 26 years to translate these 300 books, and

> roughly 9 million dollars. I share this with you, because I publish

> this material electronically. If someone was to come in, figure out a

> way to beat our safeties, and copy our entire database of texts, then

> distribute them on the internet/ or to their friends or colleagues, I

> would no longer be able to afford to pay the translators that work

> with me to translate these never before translated texts. In other

> words, I would no longer be able to afford, as a company to do more

> Research and more Development (R & D) into the Classical texts. This

> would greatly sadden me, as I feel like the Classics are the legacy

> that has been handed down to us from generations of Master

> practitioners. Surely, as a field, we respect our academics enough to

> buy their material and thus support them, so that they can continue to

> create more material for us to enjoy in the future.

>

> I think the copyright issue is secondary to what we lose as a community.

>

> Wishing you all well in the niu year.

>

> Sincerely,

>

> L.Ac.

> The Database

> Chinese Medicine

>

> --- In

Chinese Medicine <Chinese Medicine%40yaho\

ogroups.com>,

> Robert Chu

> <chusauli wrote:

> >

> > Look at the copyright laws and have respect for the publisher.

> >

>

>

>

 

 

 

--

Kath Bartlett, LAc, MS, BA UCLA

Oriental Medicine

Experienced, Dedicated, Effective

 

Kath's Blog about , Healthy Living & Spirituality:

http://acukath.blogspot.com/

 

Flying Dragon Liniment: Effective pain relief for muscles & joints

Formulated by Kath Bartlett, Traditional Chinese Herbalist

Available at Asheville Center for :

www.FlyingDragonLiniment.com

 

and from the following supply companies:

Kamwo Herbal Pharmacy: NY - Chinatown

https://www.kamwo.com/shop/product.php?productid=17442 & cat=0 & page=1

 

Golden Needle Acupuncture, Herbal & Medical Supply - Candler, NC

http://www.goldenneedleonline.com/index.php?page=categories & category=14 & vendor= & \

product=5554 & pg=

 

 

Asheville Center For

70 Woodfin Place, Suite West Wing Two

Asheville, NC 28801 828.258.2777

kbartlett

www.AcupunctureAsheville.com

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

TCM books are not only sold in the United States, but also outside US. Many of

the books are overpriced, at least that is what we think in developing country.

For comparison one can get chinese herbal medicine text with more complete

information than what John Chen got for only US$ 20.

 

I am not sure the regulation in China, but they have many websites which let you

download TCM books, Symposium audio/video files, etc. I have downloaded

thousands of TCM books myself, ranging from acupuncture, herbal, classic text.

They are all free. Some of those book has been translated into English, like the

work of jiao shu de, deng tie dao, shi xue min. The majority of the ebook are

scanned text with marginal quality. May be they did this on purpose, so you buy

the original book yourself and take the ebook as reference only. I want to have

as much reference book as possible, but I don't want to buy all of them.

Honestly, I still prefer to read from paper but handy reference material is

useful.

 

Best regards,

Yandy

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

There is quite a cultural difference between TCM books in the west and

those in China. The Chinese texts are difficult to read, badly laid

out and regurgitate a lot of the same party line info on TCM. That's

why they are not popular in the west and why people buy the more

expensive western printed texts. As TCM books are considered by

publishers to be medical textbooks, then they carry the similar price

to western medical textbooks (although TCM practitioners don't get

paid the same as western medical doctors!). I often find this is the

case as i run an online bookstore, see

http://www.chinesemedicinetimes.com/section/11/1/book_shop

 

It is really not ethical to share ebooks, although i'm sure some

students/practitioners do. I sell a couple of ebooks on my bookstore

(http://www.chinesemedicinetimes.com/section/247/1/ebooks) and if

anyone is caught doing this from my bookstore, then we tend to ban them.

 

Having the classical texts available for free online is perfectly

acceptable as the copyright and intellectual property rights (IPR)

have expired. However, what's often the problem in Asia, especially

China, is that IPR are ignored and seldom enforced for recent

publications. You can actually buy copies of books from campus

bookstores! I'm sure this will change as China develops more.

 

Attilio

www.chinesemedicinetimes.com

 

 

Chinese Medicine , Yandy Yang

<yandy_mail wrote:

>

> TCM books are not only sold in the United States, but also outside

US. Many of the books are overpriced, at least that is what we think

in developing country. For comparison one can get chinese herbal

medicine text with more complete information than what John Chen got

for only US$ 20.

>

> I am not sure the regulation in China, but they have many websites

which let you download TCM books, Symposium audio/video files, etc. I

have downloaded thousands of TCM books myself, ranging from

acupuncture, herbal, classic text. They are all free. Some of those

book has been translated into English, like the work of jiao shu de,

deng tie dao, shi xue min. The majority of the ebook are scanned text

with marginal quality. May be they did this on purpose, so you buy the

original book yourself and take the ebook as reference only. I want to

have as much reference book as possible, but I don't want to buy all

of them. Honestly, I still prefer to read from paper but handy

reference material is useful.

>

> Best regards,

> Yandy

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Reproduction of copyrighted material for purposes of private research is

both legal and legitimate. This does not mean you can sell copies of

copyrighted material, but reproduction of them for personal research is

perfectly fine.

 

 

 

-

" Yandy Yang " <yandy_mail

<Chinese Medicine >

Thursday, February 12, 2009 8:05 PM

Re: [PCOM Alumni] Ethics of sharing downloaded e-book files?

 

 

> TCM books are not only sold in the United States, but also outside US.

> Many of the books are overpriced, at least that is what we think in

> developing country. For comparison one can get chinese herbal medicine

> text with more complete information than what John Chen got for only US$

> 20.

>

> I am not sure the regulation in China, but they have many websites which

> let you download TCM books, Symposium audio/video files, etc. I have

> downloaded thousands of TCM books myself, ranging from acupuncture,

> herbal, classic text. They are all free. Some of those book has been

> translated into English, like the work of jiao shu de, deng tie dao, shi

> xue min. The majority of the ebook are scanned text with marginal quality.

> May be they did this on purpose, so you buy the original book yourself and

> take the ebook as reference only. I want to have as much reference book as

> possible, but I don't want to buy all of them. Honestly, I still prefer to

> read from paper but handy reference material is useful.

>

> Best regards,

> Yandy

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Attilio is right about Chinese books being generally unwieldy, and

often out of context for the Western reader.

The small group of " foreign editors " at PMPH in Beijing are trying to

change that. Things have changed since Eric Brand acted as a

consultant here.

 

Have a look at the new books at www.pmph.com- the new catalogue is

downloadable .

 

We have great resources for the making good books here in China,but

the process of " Westernizing " them has been difficult, since the

Chinese publishers really dont really understand our perspective on

these things.

A lot of good stuff in in the works, however,

including a Jin Gui Yao Lue textbook based on the Chengdu Phd level

textbook, which I am editing at present.[shameless plug (*:]

 

In any event, were always looking for good ideas for new books, and as

colleagues, your opinions can help make good Chinese TCM publishing

happen. Hopefully at the right price point too.

 

Harry F. Lardner, Projects Editor

Peoples Medical Publishing House

Beijing, China

 

 

Chinese Medicine , " Attilio

DAlberto " <attiliodalberto wrote:

>

> There is quite a cultural difference between TCM books in the west and

> those in China. The Chinese texts are difficult to read, badly laid

> out and regurgitate a lot of the same party line info on TCM. That's

> why they are not popular in the west and why people buy the more

> expensive western printed texts. As TCM books are considered by

> publishers to be medical textbooks, then they carry the similar price

> to western medical textbooks (although TCM practitioners don't get

> paid the same as western medical doctors!). I often find this is the

> case as i run an online bookstore, see

> http://www.chinesemedicinetimes.com/section/11/1/book_shop

 

> Attilio

> www.chinesemedicinetimes.com

>

>

> Chinese Medicine , Yandy Yang

> <yandy_mail@> wrote:

> >

> > TCM books are not only sold in the United States, but also outside

> US. Many of the books are overpriced, at least that is what we think

> in developing country. For comparison one can get chinese herbal

> medicine text with more complete information than what John Chen got

> for only US$ 20.

> >

> > I am not sure the regulation in China, but they have many websites

> which let you download TCM books, Symposium audio/video files, etc. I

> have downloaded thousands of TCM books myself, ranging from

> acupuncture, herbal, classic text. They are all free. Some of those

> book has been translated into English, like the work of jiao shu de,

> deng tie dao, shi xue min. The majority of the ebook are scanned text

> with marginal quality. May be they did this on purpose, so you buy the

> original book yourself and take the ebook as reference only. I want to

> have as much reference book as possible, but I don't want to buy all

> of them. Honestly, I still prefer to read from paper but handy

> reference material is useful.

> >

> > Best regards,

> > Yandy

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

Hi Harry,

 

Yes, I've noticed PMPH are making good progress with westernising

Chinese texts. Most noticeable that I've seen is Shi Xue Min's

Comprehensive Textbook of Acupuncture and Moxibustion, which is very

well laid out, with a good type font and an all important index (often

missing from Chinese books), see

http://www.chinesemedicinetimes.com/product/353/167/shi_xue_min_s_comprehensive_\

textbook_of_acupuncture_and_moxibustion

 

 

Keep up the good work!

 

I might see you at the book fair in London this April.

 

Attilio

www.chinesemedicinetimes.com

 

Chinese Medicine , " skip8080 "

<skip8080 wrote:

>

> Attilio is right about Chinese books being generally unwieldy, and

> often out of context for the Western reader.

> The small group of " foreign editors " at PMPH in Beijing are trying to

> change that. Things have changed since Eric Brand acted as a

> consultant here.

>

> Have a look at the new books at www.pmph.com- the new catalogue is

> downloadable .

>

> We have great resources for the making good books here in China,but

> the process of " Westernizing " them has been difficult, since the

> Chinese publishers really dont really understand our perspective on

> these things.

> A lot of good stuff in in the works, however,

> including a Jin Gui Yao Lue textbook based on the Chengdu Phd level

> textbook, which I am editing at present.[shameless plug (*:]

>

> In any event, were always looking for good ideas for new books, and as

> colleagues, your opinions can help make good Chinese TCM publishing

> happen. Hopefully at the right price point too.

>

> Harry F. Lardner, Projects Editor

> Peoples Medical Publishing House

> Beijing, China

>

>

> Chinese Medicine , " Attilio

> DAlberto " <attiliodalberto@> wrote:

> >

> > There is quite a cultural difference between TCM books in the west and

> > those in China. The Chinese texts are difficult to read, badly laid

> > out and regurgitate a lot of the same party line info on TCM. That's

> > why they are not popular in the west and why people buy the more

> > expensive western printed texts. As TCM books are considered by

> > publishers to be medical textbooks, then they carry the similar price

> > to western medical textbooks (although TCM practitioners don't get

> > paid the same as western medical doctors!). I often find this is the

> > case as i run an online bookstore, see

> > http://www.chinesemedicinetimes.com/section/11/1/book_shop

>

> > Attilio

> > www.chinesemedicinetimes.com

> >

> >

> > Chinese Medicine , Yandy Yang

> > <yandy_mail@> wrote:

> > >

> > > TCM books are not only sold in the United States, but also outside

> > US. Many of the books are overpriced, at least that is what we think

> > in developing country. For comparison one can get chinese herbal

> > medicine text with more complete information than what John Chen got

> > for only US$ 20.

> > >

> > > I am not sure the regulation in China, but they have many websites

> > which let you download TCM books, Symposium audio/video files, etc. I

> > have downloaded thousands of TCM books myself, ranging from

> > acupuncture, herbal, classic text. They are all free. Some of those

> > book has been translated into English, like the work of jiao shu de,

> > deng tie dao, shi xue min. The majority of the ebook are scanned text

> > with marginal quality. May be they did this on purpose, so you buy the

> > original book yourself and take the ebook as reference only. I want to

> > have as much reference book as possible, but I don't want to buy all

> > of them. Honestly, I still prefer to read from paper but handy

> > reference material is useful.

> > >

> > > Best regards,

> > > Yandy

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

[Guest guest]

Attillo,

I agree with you. Western printed TCM books make some strong points, they have

better texts layout, helpful tables and comprehensive indexes. Chinese

publishers need to take some consideration to improve these areas.

 

Price is always the subject of my concern because good books are always

expensive. I was glad that www.chinesemedicinetimes.com offer a better price

than other web store. But there was something that I don't understand, when I

bought a Japanese acupuncture book from you via a friend in Germany, she said

you couldn't deliver the book to Indonesia. That was why the book should took a

route to Germany first and then remake it way here. I had to pay double postage.

I don't understand why some TCM web store couldn't deliver the book to me

directly.

 

Yandy

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Hi Yandy,

 

Yes, I'm sorry that we couldn't send the book to Indonesia. There are

about a dozen countries that we can't ship to, because the company we

use to process online payments won't accept payment from these

countries, due to high levels of internet fraud.

 

Attilio

www.chinesemedicinetimes.com

 

Chinese Medicine , Yandy Yang

<yandy_mail wrote:

>

> Attillo,

> I agree with you. Western printed TCM books make some strong points,

they have better texts layout, helpful tables and comprehensive

indexes. Chinese publishers need to take some consideration to improve

these areas.

>

> Price is always the subject of my concern because good books are

always expensive. I was glad that www.chinesemedicinetimes.com offer a

better price than other web store. But there was something that I

don't understand, when I bought a Japanese acupuncture book from you

via a friend in Germany, she said you couldn't deliver the book to

Indonesia. That was why the book should took a route to Germany first

and then remake it way here. I had to pay double postage. I don't

understand why some TCM web store couldn't deliver the book to me

directly.

>

> Yandy

>

>

>

>

>

>