Response to styles of acupuncture-The Medicine Show

[Guest guest]

 Belief systems aside, charismatic practitioners aside, in our medicine as in

politics or entertainment etc., everybody wants to be admired as the most gifted

one, or, touched by the most gifted one. There's too much " I have a better

knowledge " crap in our profession. 

 That is what is killing our trade. Most of us have successes in the clinic, and

ALL of us, Dr. Tan, Manaka- everbody- have failed to heal at times. Everybody.

We have to respect each others' ability, it is there whether they are photogenic

or dynamic, or just middle income- middle class  humble medical workers.

 In TCM school, some of the worst practitioners were already set up with clinics

in Hawaii when they graduated, because they came from money. And of course

people expected papers from them, and wanted to have rounds with them, after

all, they had the most prestigious clinics in the area. You know who you are.

But they couldn't produce. More flame than heat, more bullshit than brilliance,

so our craft suffered.

 I worked down the road from one of those guys who charged $300 a treatment at

that time, and people would come to our lowly hut and say, " I think he/she was

helping me, but I couldn't afford to continue with them " , so they came to us and

got help too, even tho it wasn't as bling! bling!  That is the medical

profession. Don't make it the medicine show, where our incompetence falls on the

patient.

 To me, you all sound like fundamentalists thinking your interpretation of the

Quaran or Bible or the Inner Classic is the only authority. And we all have so

much to tell each other about our ocean deep look into this field. I can

honestly say I don't feel like I understand anything, especially when my private

life turns sad. But this is why our patients come! They don't come because

everything is roses, so now we can feel it. Syndrome by syndrome.

  And we all know how much the public wants to be healed by 'the best'  white

tower white coat. And it never fails in especially America, the students think

they know it all, and end up just the ones who work the reimbursement system

best.

 What amazes me is, almost every chinese medicine practitioner has gotten some

relief for their patients here and there. There is too much ego and not enough

vision. If Dr. Tan and some of his students get great results, well yippee! We

can all learn. If the classic expert finds some connection we missed, yea! Fun!

We all benefit.

 Humility, patience, farsightedness, courage. We are all on the same stream. It

has broken my heart for a long time, to see how guildlike this profession has

become. Even bricklayers make room for an energetic aspirant. Too much turf

battle. I don't remember who said it, but the quote went something like this, "

The chiropractors have an office on every block, but the acupuncturists have

only a couple people in any city. They don't know how to help eachother " . And it

is true. I thought western medicine was stratified: damn, reach down a little

more.

 

--- On Tue, 2/3/09, Douglas Knapp <knappneedleman wrote:

Douglas Knapp <knappneedleman

Re: Response to the recent thread regarding Tan/Chen/Tung styles

of acupuncture

Chinese Medicine

Tuesday, February 3, 2009, 12:45 AM

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Hear, hear

 

 

 

____________ _________ _________ __

 

Kim Blankenship <kuangguiyu (AT) gmail (DOT) com>

 

 

 

Monday, February 2, 2009 8:26:36 PM

 

Response to the recent thread regarding Tan/Chen/Tung styles of

acupuncture

 

 

 

Dear Group:

 

 

 

I am very disheartened and dismayed at all of the derogatory remarks and

 

misinformation concerning Tan/Chen/Tung- style acupuncture being bandied

 

about on this group. Many of these attacks have not just singled out certain

 

styles of acupuncture, but have rather focused on the morals and ethics of

 

the many of us who have incorporated these styles into our various

 

practices.

 

 

 

First I would like to address some of the misinformation and the stunning

 

lack of understanding of the basic principles of acupuncture and the

 

Classics displayed by some of the detractors:

 

 

 

Angela Pfaffenberger stated that, " A striking feature of Tan's system is

 

that it takes so little time, the clients do not need to disrobe, and you

 

don't really need a diagnosis, you can do the whole thing is a bout 10

 

minutes...Plus the underlying disorder is never remedied, consequently the

 

client has to return and Tan also recommends frequent treatments.. . "

 

 

 

First, of course there is a necessary diagnosis - to suggest otherwise is

 

ridiculous. And the comment that " the underlying disorder is never

 

remedied " is also nonsense. Meridian-style acupuncture/ Balance Method

 

focuses on diagnosing the " sick " meridian(s) which indicates the location of

 

physical pain as well as an underlying internal problem. This type of

 

treatment addresses root and branch and I am astounded that any experienced

 

practitioner could think for a second that bringing balance to a patient's

 

meridian system would only suffice to alleviate physical pain. And I don't

 

see any downside to being able to spend less time with each patient and see

 

more per hour as long as you are giving effective treatments. Don't we all

 

hope that clients return? I do, and I have personally had more patients

 

return to address other issues following a rather quick resolution of their

 

initial complaint. My results have been faster using this type of treatment

 

rather than the herbalized TCM style I was taught in school. And frequent

 

treatments - which happen to be the norm in China - can make a huge

 

difference in results with stubborn, chronic conditions.

 

 

 

Someone made the comment:

 

" Many practitioners are claiming how once they switched to Dr Tan's style,

 

they saw much better results. "

 

 

 

To which Lonny Jarrett replied:

 

" Lonny: This would depend on one's value system regarding what

 

constitutes " a better result " . "

 

 

 

This seems a terribly arrogant and negative assessment of Tan practitioners'

 

value systems. But we'll probably never know for sure because Lonny deigned

 

not to lower himself and " expound a bit " on what he was enigmatically

 

putting forth. attempted to translate:

 

 

 

" Lonny has a good point here...What Lonny is speaking about here is very

 

profound. He is asking

 

whether the relief of symptomatic pain is the goal of the patient and

 

practitioner, or something deeper, which in my approach to Chinese

 

medicine would be alleviation of disharmonious patterns. Lonny may be

 

looking at more spiritual issues as well, including lifestyle,

 

emotions, outlook . . . "

 

 

 

I am not sure how he managed to divine all of that from Lonny's cryptic

 

one-liner. Of course, once again, meridian-style treatments do much more

 

than simply alleviate symptomatic pain. As far as Lonny possibly looking at

 

more spiritual issues, that's nice - especially if that is the patient's

 

goal - but why is it necessary to comment on other practitioners' value

 

systems at all? What's profound about that?

 

 

 

David Vitello responded to Lonny as well:

 

 

 

" Lonny,

 

 

 

Good point. I think there is a large influence Orange in Dr Tan

 

practitioners. There are quite few big name Dr Tan'rs practitioners

 

in WA -where I practice- and resonating with Angelina, they seem to

 

me to be interested in fast paced busy practices with little care for

 

deeper healing. The Orange values of $bling are definetly apparent

 

with these guys. There is this whole Scientology- Singer-Dr Tan-Jimmy

 

Chang- Lotus seminar-collaborati on monster that is really a bit scary

 

to me...To not understand the effectiveness of local needling for some

 

disorders is

 

baffling. "

 

 

 

Well, to begin with, linking Tan/Chen/Tung practitioners in general with

 

Scientology, David Singer and colors (?) is preposterous. I had to google

 

Singer to even find out what the heck is being referenced. Here again we

 

also have the inaccurate slam on " little care for deeper healing " . And " The

 

Orange values of $bling are definetly apparent with these guys " also sounds

 

like a slam, but it's pointless to refute gibberish so I'm not even going to

 

attempt that. And yes, local needling can be effective but, in my

 

experience, meridian-style treatments provide quicker and deeper results so

 

I am really confused how you could interpret a stronger, quicker response as

 

being somehow sub-par. By the way, what color value is assigned to cheap

 

shots?

 

 

 

Sorry to have gone on so long with this post, but I am deeply disturbed to

 

see learned practitioners dissing an effective, Classically- derived modality

 

and, even more, showing such disrespect for their colleagues. I am also

 

very curious as to what can possibly motivate such a response. I'm afraid

 

that it is just this sort of thinking that is at the core of why we are such

 

a fractured, divided profession. And this is no time to be further

 

promulgating this sort of division.

 

 

 

With all due respect,

 

 

 

Kim Blankenship, L.Ac.

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Well said. There is no one right/best/correct/superior/enlightened way to

practice this medicine. We are truly fortunate to have such a wide and deep

pool of viable resources from which to sample and create the styles that

work best for each of us. And I feel sure that most of us are continually

learning and evolving, our 'styles' alive and flowing as we grow.

Of all of the different fields I have worked in, this one is the least

workable when ego enters the equation. In some professions ego may be a

valuable component, not so here.

 

" Humility, patience, farsightedness, courage. We are all on the same

stream. " You said it.

 

Take care -

 

Kim

 

 

 

 

On Tue, Feb 3, 2009 at 12:02 AM, mystir <ykcul_ritsym wrote:

 

> Belief systems aside, charismatic practitioners aside, in our medicine

> as in politics or entertainment etc., everybody wants to be admired as the

> most gifted one, or, touched by the most gifted one. There's too much " I

> have a better knowledge " crap in our profession.

> That is what is killing our trade. Most of us have successes in the

> clinic, and ALL of us, Dr. Tan, Manaka- everbody- have failed to heal at

> times. Everybody. We have to respect each others' ability, it is there

> whether they are photogenic or dynamic, or just middle income- middle class

> humble medical workers.

> In TCM school, some of the worst practitioners were already set up with

> clinics in Hawaii when they graduated, because they came from money. And of

> course people expected papers from them, and wanted to have rounds with

> them, after all, they had the most prestigious clinics in the area. You know

> who you are. But they couldn't produce. More flame than heat, more bullshit

> than brilliance, so our craft suffered.

> I worked down the road from one of those guys who charged $300 a treatment

> at that time, and people would come to our lowly hut and say, " I think

> he/she was helping me, but I couldn't afford to continue with them " , so they

> came to us and got help too, even tho it wasn't as bling! bling! That is

> the medical profession. Don't make it the medicine show, where our

> incompetence falls on the patient.

> To me, you all sound like fundamentalists thinking your interpretation of

> the Quaran or Bible or the Inner Classic is the only authority. And we all

> have so much to tell each other about our ocean deep look into this field. I

> can honestly say I don't feel like I understand anything, especially when my

> private life turns sad. But this is why our patients come! They don't come

> because everything is roses, so now we can feel it. Syndrome by syndrome.

> And we all know how much the public wants to be healed by 'the best'

> white tower white coat. And it never fails in especially America, the

> students think they know it all, and end up just the ones who work the

> reimbursement system best.

> What amazes me is, almost every chinese medicine practitioner has gotten

> some relief for their patients here and there. There is too much ego and not

> enough vision. If Dr. Tan and some of his students get great results, well

> yippee! We can all learn. If the classic expert finds some connection we

> missed, yea! Fun! We all benefit.

> Humility, patience, farsightedness, courage. We are all on the same

> stream. It has broken my heart for a long time, to see how guildlike this

> profession has become. Even bricklayers make room for an energetic aspirant.

> Too much turf battle. I don't remember who said it, but the quote went

> something like this, " The chiropractors have an office on every block, but

> the acupuncturists have only a couple people in any city. They don't know

> how to help eachother " . And it is true. I thought western medicine was

> stratified: damn, reach down a little more.

>

> --- On Tue, 2/3/09, Douglas Knapp

<knappneedleman<knappneedleman%40>>

> wrote:

> Douglas Knapp <knappneedleman <knappneedleman%40>

> >

> Re: Response to the recent thread regarding Tan/Chen/Tung

> styles of acupuncture

> To:

Chinese Medicine <Chinese Medicine%40yaho\

ogroups.com>

> Tuesday, February 3, 2009, 12:45 AM

>

> Hear, hear

>

> ____________ _________ _________ __

>

> Kim Blankenship <kuangguiyu (AT) gmail (DOT) com>

>

>

>

> Monday, February 2, 2009 8:26:36 PM

>

> Response to the recent thread regarding Tan/Chen/Tung styles

> of acupuncture

>

> Dear Group:

>

> I am very disheartened and dismayed at all of the derogatory remarks and

>

> misinformation concerning Tan/Chen/Tung- style acupuncture being bandied

>

> about on this group. Many of these attacks have not just singled out

> certain

>

> styles of acupuncture, but have rather focused on the morals and ethics of

>

> the many of us who have incorporated these styles into our various

>

> practices.

>

> First I would like to address some of the misinformation and the stunning

>

> lack of understanding of the basic principles of acupuncture and the

>

> Classics displayed by some of the detractors:

>

> Angela Pfaffenberger stated that, " A striking feature of Tan's system is

>

> that it takes so little time, the clients do not need to disrobe, and you

>

> don't really need a diagnosis, you can do the whole thing is a bout 10

>

> minutes...Plus the underlying disorder is never remedied, consequently the

>

> client has to return and Tan also recommends frequent treatments.. . "

>

> First, of course there is a necessary diagnosis - to suggest otherwise is

>

> ridiculous. And the comment that " the underlying disorder is never

>

> remedied " is also nonsense. Meridian-style acupuncture/ Balance Method

>

> focuses on diagnosing the " sick " meridian(s) which indicates the location

> of

>

> physical pain as well as an underlying internal problem. This type of

>

> treatment addresses root and branch and I am astounded that any experienced

>

> practitioner could think for a second that bringing balance to a patient's

>

> meridian system would only suffice to alleviate physical pain. And I don't

>

> see any downside to being able to spend less time with each patient and see

>

> more per hour as long as you are giving effective treatments. Don't we all

>

> hope that clients return? I do, and I have personally had more patients

>

> return to address other issues following a rather quick resolution of their

>

> initial complaint. My results have been faster using this type of treatment

>

> rather than the herbalized TCM style I was taught in school. And frequent

>

> treatments - which happen to be the norm in China - can make a huge

>

> difference in results with stubborn, chronic conditions.

>

> Someone made the comment:

>

> " Many practitioners are claiming how once they switched to Dr Tan's style,

>

> they saw much better results. "

>

> To which Lonny Jarrett replied:

>

> " Lonny: This would depend on one's value system regarding what

>

> constitutes " a better result " . "

>

> This seems a terribly arrogant and negative assessment of Tan

> practitioners'

>

> value systems. But we'll probably never know for sure because Lonny deigned

>

> not to lower himself and " expound a bit " on what he was enigmatically

>

> putting forth. attempted to translate:

>

> " Lonny has a good point here...What Lonny is speaking about here is very

>

> profound. He is asking

>

> whether the relief of symptomatic pain is the goal of the patient and

>

> practitioner, or something deeper, which in my approach to Chinese

>

> medicine would be alleviation of disharmonious patterns. Lonny may be

>

> looking at more spiritual issues as well, including lifestyle,

>

> emotions, outlook . . . "

>

> I am not sure how he managed to divine all of that from Lonny's cryptic

>

> one-liner. Of course, once again, meridian-style treatments do much more

>

> than simply alleviate symptomatic pain. As far as Lonny possibly looking at

>

> more spiritual issues, that's nice - especially if that is the patient's

>

> goal - but why is it necessary to comment on other practitioners' value

>

> systems at all? What's profound about that?

>

> David Vitello responded to Lonny as well:

>

> " Lonny,

>

> Good point. I think there is a large influence Orange in Dr Tan

>

> practitioners. There are quite few big name Dr Tan'rs practitioners

>

> in WA -where I practice- and resonating with Angelina, they seem to

>

> me to be interested in fast paced busy practices with little care for

>

> deeper healing. The Orange values of $bling are definetly apparent

>

> with these guys. There is this whole Scientology- Singer-Dr Tan-Jimmy

>

> Chang- Lotus seminar-collaborati on monster that is really a bit scary

>

> to me...To not understand the effectiveness of local needling for some

>

> disorders is

>

> baffling. "

>

> Well, to begin with, linking Tan/Chen/Tung practitioners in general with

>

> Scientology, David Singer and colors (?) is preposterous. I had to google

>

> Singer to even find out what the heck is being referenced. Here again we

>

> also have the inaccurate slam on " little care for deeper healing " . And " The

>

> Orange values of $bling are definetly apparent with these guys " also sounds

>

> like a slam, but it's pointless to refute gibberish so I'm not even going

> to

>

> attempt that. And yes, local needling can be effective but, in my

>

> experience, meridian-style treatments provide quicker and deeper results so

>

> I am really confused how you could interpret a stronger, quicker response

> as

>

> being somehow sub-par. By the way, what color value is assigned to cheap

>

> shots?

>

> Sorry to have gone on so long with this post, but I am deeply disturbed to

>

> see learned practitioners dissing an effective, Classically- derived

> modality

>

> and, even more, showing such disrespect for their colleagues. I am also

>

> very curious as to what can possibly motivate such a response. I'm afraid

>

> that it is just this sort of thinking that is at the core of why we are

> such

>

> a fractured, divided profession. And this is no time to be further

>

> promulgating this sort of division.

>

> With all due respect,

>

> Kim Blankenship, L.Ac.

>

>