Guest guest Posted January 19, 2009 Report Share Posted January 19, 2009 Hi, This is my first post here in a long while. I'm a student at AIMC Berkeley just starting my clinical internship. My wife has been taking Liu Wei Di Huang Wan for yin xu and is doing very well on it. However, we've decided to start a family and I'm wondering if it's safe for her to continue taking it. In the Bensky formulas book Liu Wei Di Huang Wan is not contraindicated during pregnancy. However, one of the individual ingredients - Mu Dan Pi - is contraindicated during pregnancy. We want to be cautious, of course, and if there's even a chance that this formula could cause problems I'd like to find a better one for her that wouldn't interfere with pregnancy. I'd welcome your ideas on that as well. With appreciation, Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 19, 2009 Report Share Posted January 19, 2009 Hi Chris: What a CM doctor does in every instance is justify his or her prescription. If the signs, symptoms and history point toward a certain formula, then it is justifiable to apply it. Once the signs and symptoms change, which changes the trajectory of the history as well, then it is no longer justifiable to apply the initial prescription, and the doctor must move forward to the next indicated prescription. Following change is the modus operandi of . Mu Dan Pi is acrid, bitter and mildly cool. Mu Dan Pi clears heat and cools the blood, clears the fire of yin deficiency, clears blood stasis and dissolves clots, drains pus and reduces swelling due to blood stasis. Mu Dan Pi is contraindicated in cold disorder, pregnancy, excessive menstruation. Let's say, Chris, that your wife tends toward some deficiency heat, which she should if Liu Wei has been prescribed for her. Guess what deficiency heat untreated means for the baby? Insufficient jing provided by the mother during gestation - that leads to all sorts of things, from restless fetus, to difficult labour, to a child who tends to deficiency heat early in life and so on. And guess what would solve these problems? Liu Wei Di Huang (with Mu Dan Pi). We could say that it is risky for this patient to _not_ take Liu Wei Di Huang (with Mu Dan Pi). That said, if your wife does not present with the appropriate S & S, then she should not be taking Liu Wei Di Huang. If possible, you can look for a more experienced practitioner to care for her. To finish up, if your wife has a very mild deficiency heat syndrome, you may want to switch her to high quality Liu Wei pills, and a low dosage might be warranted as well. However, you would be justified in prescribing medicine for deficiency heat so long as she presents with that, pregnant or not. Always match the syndrome and follow closely. It's like push hands. Hope that helps, Hugo ________________________________ Hugo Ramiro http://middlemedicine.wordpress.com http://www.chinesemedicaltherapies.org ________________________________ chriskjezp <chriskresser Chinese Medicine Sunday, 18 January, 2009 20:46:00 Liu Wei Di Huang Wan & Pregnancy Hi, This is my first post here in a long while. I'm a student at AIMC Berkeley just starting my clinical internship. My wife has been taking Liu Wei Di Huang Wan for yin xu and is doing very well on it. However, we've decided to start a family and I'm wondering if it's safe for her to continue taking it. In the Bensky formulas book Liu Wei Di Huang Wan is not contraindicated during pregnancy. However, one of the individual ingredients - Mu Dan Pi - is contraindicated during pregnancy. We want to be cautious, of course, and if there's even a chance that this formula could cause problems I'd like to find a better one for her that wouldn't interfere with pregnancy. I'd welcome your ideas on that as well. With appreciation, Chris __._,_..___ Messages in this topic (1) Reply (via web post) | Start a new topic Messages | Files | Photos | Links | Database | Polls | Calendar Subscribe to the free online journal for TCM at Times http://www.chinesemedicinetimes.com Help build the world's largest online encyclopedia for Chinese medicine and acupuncture, click, http://www.chinesemedicinetimes.com/wiki/CMTpedia and adjust accordingly. Please consider the environment and only print this message if absolutely necessary. MARKETPLACE ________________________________ From kitchen basics to easy recipes - join the Group from Kraft Foods Change settings via the Web ( ID required) Change settings via email: Switch delivery to Daily Digest | Switch format to Traditional Visit Your Group | Terms of Use | Un Recent Activity * 3 New MembersVisit Your Group Need traffic? Drive customers With search ads on Sitebuilder Build a web site quickly & easily with Sitebuilder. Going Green Zone Find Green groups. Find Green resources. .. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 19, 2009 Report Share Posted January 19, 2009 Chris, I specialize in the treatment of pregnant women, and would not hesitate to use liu wei di huang wan as classically prescribed (including the mu dan pi, ze xie and fu ling) if it fits the pattern. I have used it many times, and sometimes have the usual feedback (for this Rx) of minor digestive complaints, for which I might use acupuncture. Pregnancy is state where yin and blood are concentrated in the chong and ren channels, and patients who usually have few or no yin xu signs can develop such signs in pregnancy. Heat, as an evil, can also be a problem in pregnancy and may contribute to the concept of " fetal toxins " in the baby. I learned that one of the best ways to clear heat in pregnancy was to nourish yin, so when heat signs develop, and the accompanying pattern indicates yin xu, nourishing yin in pregnancy through a balanced nourishing and draining formula such as LWDHW is very appropriate. There's some pretty fascinating new science on placentation (placenta formation, attachment and growth) that suggests that about a third of miscarriages and perhaps metabolic disorders in later pregnancy such as pre-eclampsia, small for dates, pregnancy induced hypertension may be set up by small clots forming in the maternal arteriole. I mention this to emphasize that where there is need to drain or move blood by TCM pattern differentiation, there may be some Western science explanations to coincide with TCM theory. However, I would say that perhaps the 30+ year experienced practitioner your wife is seeing would be in the best position to make this call. Always good to ask questions and get some assurance. Isolated facts can lead to an incomplete conclusion, esp in TCM. Valerie Hobbs Chinese Medicine , " chriskjezp " <chriskresser wrote: > > Hi, > > This is my first post here in a long while. I'm a student at AIMC > Berkeley just starting my clinical internship. > > My wife has been taking Liu Wei Di Huang Wan for yin xu and is doing > very well on it. However, we've decided to start a family and I'm > wondering if it's safe for her to continue taking it. > > In the Bensky formulas book Liu Wei Di Huang Wan is not > contraindicated during pregnancy. However, one of the individual > ingredients - Mu Dan Pi - is contraindicated during pregnancy. > > We want to be cautious, of course, and if there's even a chance that > this formula could cause problems I'd like to find a better one for > her that wouldn't interfere with pregnancy. I'd welcome your ideas on > that as well. > > With appreciation, > Chris > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 20, 2009 Report Share Posted January 20, 2009 Again, a big thanks to everyone for sharing your thoughts. This is obviously important to me personally, but it's also a great learning experience for me as a student. I should probably mention that my wife is 38 years old, so there is a time consideration here. We both have friends who have become pregnant in their early 40s, but we don't want to wait that long provided we can create the fertile ground for a healthy pregnancy now. My wife has been on a pre-conception nutrition regime for several months according to the Weston A. Price approach, i.e. lots of yin and blood nourishing foods. The only supplement she is taking right now is a high vitamin cod liver oil. She has responded very well to the LWDHW, and provided it is safe like Valerie and others believe, it seems that it would be a good formula for her to continue with prior to and even after conception. It is helpful to hear from someone like Valerie who has used this formula during pregnancy without any issues (other than the common mild digestive complaints some experience with this formula). Thanks again, Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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