Guest guest Posted December 29, 2008 Report Share Posted December 29, 2008 Hi All, I recently attended a conference in which there was a conversation about prepayment plans for acupuncture treatments. The workshop was with Samuel A. Collins, the director of the Insurance Information Network through the American Acupuncture Council. According to him, it may be possible for acupuncturists to incorporate prepayment plans in our practices. The advantages are an overall lower cost per treatment for the patient, and an up-front bulk payment to the practitioner. According to Mr. Collins, prepayment plans have already been approved in California and Maryland. He encourages any acupuncturist interested in establishing prepayment plans, to contact their state department of insurance with a letter stating our intentions, and a sample of the contract we intend to use. I am considering exploring the legality of this in Arizona, where I live. I am looking for samples of contracts any of you might be using for this purpose, and to hear of your experiences of exploring this in your own areas. May we all have a happy, healthy, and successful new year! Blessings, Andrea Beth Traditional Oriental Medicine Happy Hours in the CALM Center 1770 E. Villa Drive, Suite 5 Cottonwood, AZ 86326 (928) 274-1373 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 29, 2008 Report Share Posted December 29, 2008 Andrea: I am in Maryland. Usually how change comes about is to go the Acupuncture Board and offer to them what is done in other states like MD. Let the Acupuncture board call the insurance commissioner. These folks will be very protective of their turf. I don't have a contract now for my clients but will be developing something for the new year. I have heard prepayment/contract bantered about in practice mgmt groups. That is why MD had to pay attention because practitioners started doing it. This is what I understand. Offer a prepayment plan to your clients. It does not have to be discounted or a different fee. It is nice if you do that to offer incentive.You have to stipulate that you will refund unused treatments if they decide to stop. We are not trainers, massage therapists or whoever can keep the money if you leave. However, what I think is fair and should be done is the following: If you have discounted the package of say 5 treatments, and a client leaves after tx #3 and they have paid for 5, the first 3 should be charged at the regular rate and the remaining amount refunded. Now that refund may be small because now everything is at the regular rate. You of course have to put this in bold print and also state it. The discount was given because the client committed to a group of treatments. It is fair to you and it is incentive for them to stay and see how this really works. I personally would see most people two times a week and prescribe herbs for this initial 4 weeks - maybe longer for some patients. They will see the benefits faster and be more likely to continue. My two cents Anne -- Anne C. Crowley, L.Ac., M.Ac., Dipl.Ac. www.LaPlataAcupuncture.com -------------- Original message ---------------------- < > Hi All, > > I recently attended a conference in which there was a conversation about > prepayment plans for acupuncture treatments. The workshop was with Samuel A. > Collins, the director of the Insurance Information Network through the American > Acupuncture Council. According to him, it may be possible for acupuncturists to > incorporate prepayment plans in our practices. The advantages are an overall > lower cost per treatment for the patient, and an up-front bulk payment to the > practitioner. > > According to Mr. Collins, prepayment plans have already been approved in > California and Maryland. He encourages any acupuncturist interested in > establishing prepayment plans, to contact their state department of insurance > with a letter stating our intentions, and a sample of the contract we intend to > use. > > I am considering exploring the legality of this in Arizona, where I live. I am > looking for samples of contracts any of you might be using for this purpose, and > to hear of your experiences of exploring this in your own areas. > > May we all have a happy, healthy, and successful new year! > > Blessings, > Andrea Beth > > > Traditional Oriental Medicine > Happy Hours in the CALM Center > 1770 E. Villa Drive, Suite 5 > Cottonwood, AZ 86326 > (928) 274-1373 > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 31, 2008 Report Share Posted December 31, 2008 ..The best feature of prepaid plans is that they motivate patients to get all the care they need (that is if YOU are skilled enough to predict how many treatments they really need to correct/resolve their issue/s and if YOU are bold enough to tell them the truth!!). oNCE THEY HAVE PRPAID, ANOTHER MOTIVATOR COMES INTO PLAY BESIDES WANTING TO FEEL BETTER...WANTING TO GET THEIR MONEY'S WORTH). Patients committed to a prepaid plan seem to refer more than those less committed. We frequently (multiple times per week) have Clients who prepay for plans that span 6 months to 18 months and include 12 to 70+ treatments, appropriate reevaluations, anticipated herbs, and bodywork. We also sell maintenance packages to those who have completed initial corrective care plans. I spoke with the State board of professional services regarding prepaid plans and they responded that they had no regulations prohibiting such. Mark Zaranski East Wind Acupuncture, Inc. Chesterton, Indiana Chinese Medicine , anne.crowley wrote: > > Andrea: > > I am in Maryland. Usually how change comes about is to go the Acupuncture Board and offer to them what is done in other states like MD. Let the Acupuncture board call the insurance commissioner. These folks will be very protective of their turf. > > I don't have a contract now for my clients but will be developing something for the new year. I have heard prepayment/contract bantered about in practice mgmt groups. That is why MD had to pay attention because practitioners started doing it. > > This is what I understand. Offer a prepayment plan to your clients. It does not have to be discounted or a different fee. It is nice if you do that to offer incentive.You have to stipulate that you will refund unused treatments if they decide to stop. We are not trainers, massage therapists or whoever can keep the money if you leave. > > However, what I think is fair and should be done is the following: If you have discounted the package of say 5 treatments, and a client leaves after tx #3 and they have paid for 5, the first 3 should be charged at the regular rate and the remaining amount refunded. Now that refund may be small because now everything is at the regular rate. You of course have to put this in bold print and also state it. The discount was given because the client committed to a group of treatments. It is fair to you and it is incentive for them to stay and see how this really works. > > I personally would see most people two times a week and prescribe herbs for this initial 4 weeks - maybe longer for some patients. They will see the benefits faster and be more likely to continue. > > My two cents > > Anne > > -- > Anne C. Crowley, L.Ac., M.Ac., Dipl.Ac. > > www.LaPlataAcupuncture.com > > -------------- Original message ---------------------- > < > > Hi All, > > > > I recently attended a conference in which there was a conversation about > > prepayment plans for acupuncture treatments. The workshop was with Samuel A. > > Collins, the director of the Insurance Information Network through the American > > Acupuncture Council. According to him, it may be possible for acupuncturists to > > incorporate prepayment plans in our practices. The advantages are an overall > > lower cost per treatment for the patient, and an up-front bulk payment to the > > practitioner. > > > > According to Mr. Collins, prepayment plans have already been approved in > > California and Maryland. He encourages any acupuncturist interested in > > establishing prepayment plans, to contact their state department of insurance > > with a letter stating our intentions, and a sample of the contract we intend to > > use. > > > > I am considering exploring the legality of this in Arizona, where I live. I am > > looking for samples of contracts any of you might be using for this purpose, and > > to hear of your experiences of exploring this in your own areas. > > > > May we all have a happy, healthy, and successful new year! > > > > Blessings, > > Andrea Beth > > > > > > Traditional Oriental Medicine > > Happy Hours in the CALM Center > > 1770 E. Villa Drive, Suite 5 > > Cottonwood, AZ 86326 > > (928) 274-1373 > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 31, 2008 Report Share Posted December 31, 2008 Mark: You do refund the unsused portion if they decide to discontinue, don't you? That would be figuring everything at the regular rate if they discontinue and refunding the rest. Anne -- Anne C. Crowley, L.Ac., M.Ac., Dipl.Ac. www.LaPlataAcupuncture.com -------------- Original message ---------------------- " zedbowls " <zaranski > .The best feature of prepaid plans is that they motivate patients to > get all the care they need (that is if YOU are skilled enough to > predict how many treatments they really need to correct/resolve > their issue/s and if YOU are bold enough to tell them the truth!!). > oNCE THEY HAVE PRPAID, ANOTHER MOTIVATOR COMES INTO PLAY BESIDES > WANTING TO FEEL BETTER...WANTING TO GET THEIR MONEY'S WORTH). > > Patients committed to a prepaid plan seem to refer more than those > less committed. We frequently (multiple times per week) have > Clients who prepay for plans that span 6 months to 18 months and > include 12 to 70+ treatments, appropriate reevaluations, anticipated > herbs, and bodywork. We also sell maintenance packages to those who > have completed initial corrective care plans. > > I spoke with the State board of professional services regarding > prepaid plans and they responded that they had no regulations > prohibiting such. > > Mark Zaranski > East Wind Acupuncture, Inc. > Chesterton, Indiana > > Chinese Medicine , > anne.crowley wrote: > > > > Andrea: > > > > I am in Maryland. Usually how change comes about is to go the > Acupuncture Board and offer to them what is done in other states > like MD. Let the Acupuncture board call the insurance > commissioner. These folks will be very protective of their turf. > > > > I don't have a contract now for my clients but will be developing > something for the new year. I have heard prepayment/contract > bantered about in practice mgmt groups. That is why MD had to pay > attention because practitioners started doing it. > > > > This is what I understand. Offer a prepayment plan to your > clients. It does not have to be discounted or a different fee. It > is nice if you do that to offer incentive.You have to stipulate that > you will refund unused treatments if they decide to stop. We are > not trainers, massage therapists or whoever can keep the money if > you leave. > > > > However, what I think is fair and should be done is the > following: If you have discounted the package of say 5 treatments, > and a client leaves after tx #3 and they have paid for 5, the first > 3 should be charged at the regular rate and the remaining amount > refunded. Now that refund may be small because now everything is at > the regular rate. You of course have to put this in bold print and > also state it. The discount was given because the client committed > to a group of treatments. It is fair to you and it is incentive for > them to stay and see how this really works. > > > > I personally would see most people two times a week and prescribe > herbs for this initial 4 weeks - maybe longer for some patients. > They will see the benefits faster and be more likely to continue. > > > > My two cents > > > > Anne > > > > -- > > Anne C. Crowley, L.Ac., M.Ac., Dipl.Ac. > > > > www.LaPlataAcupuncture.com > > > > -------------- Original message ---------------------- > > < > > > Hi All, > > > > > > I recently attended a conference in which there was a > conversation about > > > prepayment plans for acupuncture treatments. The workshop was > with Samuel A. > > > Collins, the director of the Insurance Information Network > through the American > > > Acupuncture Council. According to him, it may be possible for > acupuncturists to > > > incorporate prepayment plans in our practices. The advantages > are an overall > > > lower cost per treatment for the patient, and an up-front bulk > payment to the > > > practitioner. > > > > > > According to Mr. Collins, prepayment plans have already been > approved in > > > California and Maryland. He encourages any acupuncturist > interested in > > > establishing prepayment plans, to contact their state department > of insurance > > > with a letter stating our intentions, and a sample of the > contract we intend to > > > use. > > > > > > I am considering exploring the legality of this in Arizona, > where I live. I am > > > looking for samples of contracts any of you might be using for > this purpose, and > > > to hear of your experiences of exploring this in your own areas. > > > > > > May we all have a happy, healthy, and successful new year! > > > > > > Blessings, > > > Andrea Beth > > > > > > > > > Traditional Oriental Medicine > > > Happy Hours in the CALM Center > > > 1770 E. Villa Drive, Suite 5 > > > Cottonwood, AZ 86326 > > > (928) 274-1373 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 2, 2009 Report Share Posted January 2, 2009 Anne, If the Client does not complete their treatment plan, the unused portion of their prepay is promptly refunded to them via check, or by the method they paid (their choice). The services used (when not the complete plan) are charged at regular price. We discount services only, but prepaid treatment plans include estimated herbs, too. Their herb use is tracked in their file, so the remaining herb credit is never a mystery. I created a simple agreement that both parties sign at the start that lists all services included, as well as product credit. The agreement spells out the refund policy and gives an extensive example. We have had people decide to drop out, had people relocate, and we have kicked-out some people. All received refunds. We discount 15% for sizeable prepaid plans, 10% for small plans. We find that Clients on prepaid plans miss appointments far less frequently, have better compliance with diet, exercises, and herbs, and tend to refer much more often and more vigorously than those who do not make as deep a committment. Prepaids tend to get all the help they really need, and have much better results because of that. Remember our clinic's goal is correction (as opposed to relief) as evidenced by normal tongue and pulse. Mark Zaranski East Wind Acupuncture, Inc. Chinese Medicine , anne.crowley wrote: > > Mark: > > You do refund the unsused portion if they decide to discontinue, don't you? That would be figuring everything at the regular rate if they discontinue and refunding the rest. > > Anne > > -- > Anne C. Crowley, L.Ac., M.Ac., Dipl.Ac. > > www.LaPlataAcupuncture.com > > -------------- Original message ---------------------- > " zedbowls " <zaranski > > .The best feature of prepaid plans is that they motivate patients to > > get all the care they need (that is if YOU are skilled enough to > > predict how many treatments they really need to correct/resolve > > their issue/s and if YOU are bold enough to tell them the truth!!). > > oNCE THEY HAVE PRPAID, ANOTHER MOTIVATOR COMES INTO PLAY BESIDES > > WANTING TO FEEL BETTER...WANTING TO GET THEIR MONEY'S WORTH). > > > > Patients committed to a prepaid plan seem to refer more than those > > less committed. We frequently (multiple times per week) have > > Clients who prepay for plans that span 6 months to 18 months and > > include 12 to 70+ treatments, appropriate reevaluations, anticipated > > herbs, and bodywork. We also sell maintenance packages to those who > > have completed initial corrective care plans. > > > > I spoke with the State board of professional services regarding > > prepaid plans and they responded that they had no regulations > > prohibiting such. > > > > Mark Zaranski > > East Wind Acupuncture, Inc. > > Chesterton, Indiana > > > > Chinese Medicine , > > anne.crowley@ wrote: > > > > > > Andrea: > > > > > > I am in Maryland. Usually how change comes about is to go the > > Acupuncture Board and offer to them what is done in other states > > like MD. Let the Acupuncture board call the insurance > > commissioner. These folks will be very protective of their turf. > > > > > > I don't have a contract now for my clients but will be developing > > something for the new year. I have heard prepayment/contract > > bantered about in practice mgmt groups. That is why MD had to pay > > attention because practitioners started doing it. > > > > > > This is what I understand. Offer a prepayment plan to your > > clients. It does not have to be discounted or a different fee. It > > is nice if you do that to offer incentive.You have to stipulate that > > you will refund unused treatments if they decide to stop. We are > > not trainers, massage therapists or whoever can keep the money if > > you leave. > > > > > > However, what I think is fair and should be done is the > > following: If you have discounted the package of say 5 treatments, > > and a client leaves after tx #3 and they have paid for 5, the first > > 3 should be charged at the regular rate and the remaining amount > > refunded. Now that refund may be small because now everything is at > > the regular rate. You of course have to put this in bold print and > > also state it. The discount was given because the client committed > > to a group of treatments. It is fair to you and it is incentive for > > them to stay and see how this really works. > > > > > > I personally would see most people two times a week and prescribe > > herbs for this initial 4 weeks - maybe longer for some patients. > > They will see the benefits faster and be more likely to continue. > > > > > > My two cents > > > > > > Anne > > > > > > -- > > > Anne C. Crowley, L.Ac., M.Ac., Dipl.Ac. > > > > > > www.LaPlataAcupuncture.com > > > > > > -------------- Original message ---------------------- > > > <@> > > > > Hi All, > > > > > > > > I recently attended a conference in which there was a > > conversation about > > > > prepayment plans for acupuncture treatments. The workshop was > > with Samuel A. > > > > Collins, the director of the Insurance Information Network > > through the American > > > > Acupuncture Council. According to him, it may be possible for > > acupuncturists to > > > > incorporate prepayment plans in our practices. The advantages > > are an overall > > > > lower cost per treatment for the patient, and an up-front bulk > > payment to the > > > > practitioner. > > > > > > > > According to Mr. Collins, prepayment plans have already been > > approved in > > > > California and Maryland. He encourages any acupuncturist > > interested in > > > > establishing prepayment plans, to contact their state department > > of insurance > > > > with a letter stating our intentions, and a sample of the > > contract we intend to > > > > use. > > > > > > > > I am considering exploring the legality of this in Arizona, > > where I live. I am > > > > looking for samples of contracts any of you might be using for > > this purpose, and > > > > to hear of your experiences of exploring this in your own areas. > > > > > > > > May we all have a happy, healthy, and successful new year! > > > > > > > > Blessings, > > > > Andrea Beth > > > > > > > > > > > > Traditional Oriental Medicine > > > > Happy Hours in the CALM Center > > > > 1770 E. Villa Drive, Suite 5 > > > > Cottonwood, AZ 86326 > > > > (928) 274-1373 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 2, 2009 Report Share Posted January 2, 2009 Hi Mark: --- and we have kicked-out some people. --- Would you care to share some of these stories? In my opinion we are undertrained for this type of situation. Thanks! Hugo ________________________________ Hugo Ramiro http://middlemedicine.wordpress.com http://www.chinesemedicaltherapies.org ________________________________ zedbowls <zaranski Chinese Medicine Thursday, 1 January, 2009 19:57:19 Re: Prepayment Plans Anne, If the Client does not complete their treatment plan, the unused portion of their prepay is promptly refunded to them via check, or by the method they paid (their choice). The services used (when not the complete plan) are charged at regular price. We discount services only, but prepaid treatment plans include estimated herbs, too. Their herb use is tracked in their file, so the remaining herb credit is never a mystery. I created a simple agreement that both parties sign at the start that lists all services included, as well as product credit. The agreement spells out the refund policy and gives an extensive example. We have had people decide to drop out, had people relocate, All received refunds. We discount 15% for sizeable prepaid plans, 10% for small plans. We find that Clients on prepaid plans miss appointments far less frequently, have better compliance with diet, exercises, and herbs, and tend to refer much more often and more vigorously than those who do not make as deep a committment. Prepaids tend to get all the help they really need, and have much better results because of that. Remember our clinic's goal is correction (as opposed to relief) as evidenced by normal tongue and pulse. Mark Zaranski East Wind Acupuncture, Inc. Traditional_ Chinese_Medicine , anne.crowley@ ... wrote: > > Mark: > > You do refund the unsused portion if they decide to discontinue, don't you? That would be figuring everything at the regular rate if they discontinue and refunding the rest. > > Anne > > -- > Anne C. Crowley, L.Ac., M.Ac., Dipl.Ac. > > www.LaPlataAcupunct ure.com > > ------------ -- Original message ------------ --------- - > " zedbowls " <zaranski@.. .> > > .The best feature of prepaid plans is that they motivate patients to > > get all the care they need (that is if YOU are skilled enough to > > predict how many treatments they really need to correct/resolve > > their issue/s and if YOU are bold enough to tell them the truth!!). > > oNCE THEY HAVE PRPAID, ANOTHER MOTIVATOR COMES INTO PLAY BESIDES > > WANTING TO FEEL BETTER...WANTING TO GET THEIR MONEY'S WORTH). > > > > Patients committed to a prepaid plan seem to refer more than those > > less committed. We frequently (multiple times per week) have > > Clients who prepay for plans that span 6 months to 18 months and > > include 12 to 70+ treatments, appropriate reevaluations, anticipated > > herbs, and bodywork. We also sell maintenance packages to those who > > have completed initial corrective care plans. > > > > I spoke with the State board of professional services regarding > > prepaid plans and they responded that they had no regulations > > prohibiting such. > > > > Mark Zaranski > > East Wind Acupuncture, Inc. > > Chesterton, Indiana > > > > Traditional_ Chinese_Medicine , > > anne.crowley@ wrote: > > > > > > Andrea: > > > > > > I am in Maryland. Usually how change comes about is to go the > > Acupuncture Board and offer to them what is done in other states > > like MD. Let the Acupuncture board call the insurance > > commissioner. These folks will be very protective of their turf. > > > > > > I don't have a contract now for my clients but will be developing > > something for the new year. I have heard prepayment/contract > > bantered about in practice mgmt groups. That is why MD had to pay > > attention because practitioners started doing it. > > > > > > This is what I understand. Offer a prepayment plan to your > > clients. It does not have to be discounted or a different fee. It > > is nice if you do that to offer incentive.You have to stipulate that > > you will refund unused treatments if they decide to stop. We are > > not trainers, massage therapists or whoever can keep the money if > > you leave.. > > > > > > However, what I think is fair and should be done is the > > following: If you have discounted the package of say 5 treatments, > > and a client leaves after tx #3 and they have paid for 5, the first > > 3 should be charged at the regular rate and the remaining amount > > refunded. Now that refund may be small because now everything is at > > the regular rate. You of course have to put this in bold print and > > also state it. The discount was given because the client committed > > to a group of treatments. It is fair to you and it is incentive for > > them to stay and see how this really works. > > > > > > I personally would see most people two times a week and prescribe > > herbs for this initial 4 weeks - maybe longer for some patients. > > They will see the benefits faster and be more likely to continue. > > > > > > My two cents > > > > > > Anne > > > > > > -- > > > Anne C. Crowley, L.Ac., M.Ac., Dipl.Ac. > > > > > > www.LaPlataAcupunct ure.com > > > > > > ------------ -- Original message ------------ --------- - > > > <@> > > > > Hi All, > > > > > > > > I recently attended a conference in which there was a > > conversation about > > > > prepayment plans for acupuncture treatments. The workshop was > > with Samuel A. > > > > Collins, the director of the Insurance Information Network > > through the American > > > > Acupuncture Council. According to him, it may be possible for > > acupuncturists to > > > > incorporate prepayment plans in our practices. The advantages > > are an overall > > > > lower cost per treatment for the patient, and an up-front bulk > > payment to the > > > > practitioner. > > > > > > > > According to Mr. Collins, prepayment plans have already been > > approved in > > > > California and Maryland. He encourages any acupuncturist > > interested in > > > > establishing prepayment plans, to contact their state department > > of insurance > > > > with a letter stating our intentions, and a sample of the > > contract we intend to > > > > use. > > > > > > > > I am considering exploring the legality of this in Arizona, > > where I live. I am > > > > looking for samples of contracts any of you might be using for > > this purpose, and > > > > to hear of your experiences of exploring this in your own areas. > > > > > > > > May we all have a happy, healthy, and successful new year! > > > > > > > > Blessings, > > > > Andrea Beth > > > > > > > > > > > > Traditional Oriental Medicine > > > > Happy Hours in the CALM Center > > > > 1770 E. Villa Drive, Suite 5 > > > > Cottonwood, AZ 86326 > > > > (928) 274-1373 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 2, 2009 Report Share Posted January 2, 2009 Hi all, I heard that pre-pay medical plans are illegal, unless the fees are stored in an escrow bank account. Please clarify this. Also, is there something special in the wording or in the presentation which can protect you from liabilities? Any lawyers out there? Thanks. K. On Thu, Jan 1, 2009 at 4:57 PM, zedbowls <zaranski wrote: > Anne, > > If the Client does not complete their treatment plan, the unused > portion of their prepay is promptly refunded to them via check, or > by the method they paid (their choice). The services used (when not > the complete plan) are charged at regular price. We discount > services only, but prepaid treatment plans include estimated herbs, > too. Their herb use is tracked in their file, so the remaining herb > credit is never a mystery. > > I created a simple agreement that both parties sign at the start > that lists all services included, as well as product credit. The > agreement spells out the refund policy and gives an extensive > example. > > We have had people decide to drop out, had people relocate, and we > have kicked-out some people. All received refunds. > > We discount 15% for sizeable prepaid plans, 10% for small plans. > > We find that Clients on prepaid plans miss appointments far less > frequently, have better compliance with diet, exercises, and herbs, > and tend to refer much more often and more vigorously than those who > do not make as deep a committment. Prepaids tend to get all the > help they really need, and have much better results because of that. > > Remember our clinic's goal is correction (as opposed to relief) as > evidenced by normal tongue and pulse. > > > Mark Zaranski > East Wind Acupuncture, Inc. > > --- In Chinese Medicine <Chinese Medicine%40yaho\ ogroups.com>, > > anne.crowley wrote: > > > > Mark: > > > > You do refund the unsused portion if they decide to discontinue, > don't you? That would be figuring everything at the regular rate if > they discontinue and refunding the rest. > > > > Anne > > > > -- > > Anne C. Crowley, L.Ac., M.Ac., Dipl.Ac. > > > > www.LaPlataAcupuncture.com > > > > -------------- Original message ---------------------- > > " zedbowls " <zaranski > > > .The best feature of prepaid plans is that they motivate > patients to > > > get all the care they need (that is if YOU are skilled enough to > > > predict how many treatments they really need to correct/resolve > > > their issue/s and if YOU are bold enough to tell them the > truth!!). > > > oNCE THEY HAVE PRPAID, ANOTHER MOTIVATOR COMES INTO PLAY BESIDES > > > WANTING TO FEEL BETTER...WANTING TO GET THEIR MONEY'S WORTH). > > > > > > Patients committed to a prepaid plan seem to refer more than > those > > > less committed. We frequently (multiple times per week) have > > > Clients who prepay for plans that span 6 months to 18 months and > > > include 12 to 70+ treatments, appropriate reevaluations, > anticipated > > > herbs, and bodywork. We also sell maintenance packages to those > who > > > have completed initial corrective care plans. > > > > > > I spoke with the State board of professional services regarding > > > prepaid plans and they responded that they had no regulations > > > prohibiting such. > > > > > > Mark Zaranski > > > East Wind Acupuncture, Inc. > > > Chesterton, Indiana > > > > > > --- In Chinese Medicine <Chinese Medicine%40yaho\ ogroups.com>, > > > > anne.crowley@ wrote: > > > > > > > > Andrea: > > > > > > > > I am in Maryland. Usually how change comes about is to go the > > > Acupuncture Board and offer to them what is done in other states > > > like MD. Let the Acupuncture board call the insurance > > > commissioner. These folks will be very protective of their turf. > > > > > > > > I don't have a contract now for my clients but will be > developing > > > something for the new year. I have heard prepayment/contract > > > bantered about in practice mgmt groups. That is why MD had to > pay > > > attention because practitioners started doing it. > > > > > > > > This is what I understand. Offer a prepayment plan to your > > > clients. It does not have to be discounted or a different fee. > It > > > is nice if you do that to offer incentive.You have to stipulate > that > > > you will refund unused treatments if they decide to stop. We > are > > > not trainers, massage therapists or whoever can keep the money > if > > > you leave. > > > > > > > > However, what I think is fair and should be done is the > > > following: If you have discounted the package of say 5 > treatments, > > > and a client leaves after tx #3 and they have paid for 5, the > first > > > 3 should be charged at the regular rate and the remaining amount > > > refunded. Now that refund may be small because now everything > is at > > > the regular rate. You of course have to put this in bold print > and > > > also state it. The discount was given because the client > committed > > > to a group of treatments. It is fair to you and it is incentive > for > > > them to stay and see how this really works. > > > > > > > > I personally would see most people two times a week and > prescribe > > > herbs for this initial 4 weeks - maybe longer for some > patients. > > > They will see the benefits faster and be more likely to continue. > > > > > > > > My two cents > > > > > > > > Anne > > > > > > > > -- > > > > Anne C. Crowley, L.Ac., M.Ac., Dipl.Ac. > > > > > > > > www.LaPlataAcupuncture.com > > > > > > > > -------------- Original message ---------------------- > > > > <@> > > > > > Hi All, > > > > > > > > > > I recently attended a conference in which there was a > > > conversation about > > > > > prepayment plans for acupuncture treatments. The workshop > was > > > with Samuel A. > > > > > Collins, the director of the Insurance Information Network > > > through the American > > > > > Acupuncture Council. According to him, it may be possible > for > > > acupuncturists to > > > > > incorporate prepayment plans in our practices. The > advantages > > > are an overall > > > > > lower cost per treatment for the patient, and an up-front > bulk > > > payment to the > > > > > practitioner. > > > > > > > > > > According to Mr. Collins, prepayment plans have already been > > > approved in > > > > > California and Maryland. He encourages any acupuncturist > > > interested in > > > > > establishing prepayment plans, to contact their state > department > > > of insurance > > > > > with a letter stating our intentions, and a sample of the > > > contract we intend to > > > > > use. > > > > > > > > > > I am considering exploring the legality of this in Arizona, > > > where I live. I am > > > > > looking for samples of contracts any of you might be using > for > > > this purpose, and > > > > > to hear of your experiences of exploring this in your own > areas. > > > > > > > > > > May we all have a happy, healthy, and successful new year! > > > > > > > > > > Blessings, > > > > > Andrea Beth > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Traditional Oriental Medicine > > > > > Happy Hours in the CALM Center > > > > > 1770 E. Villa Drive, Suite 5 > > > > > Cottonwood, AZ 86326 > > > > > (928) 274-1373 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 3, 2009 Report Share Posted January 3, 2009 time to share just one: 24 year old female college student came in with md dx of chronic fatigue syndrome and fibromyalgia with the requisite antidepressants, antiinflammatories, etc. She responded slowly but markedly during the evaluation period (first 4 treatments) and told us she was genuinely committed to changing her life including diet, movement, getting off her drugs, getting out of her dis-ease...she wanted to change her life. She decided to prepay for a rather extensive course of care (given her young age) and responded increasingly well as she was able to taper off her drugs. She lost almost 20#s, got off her drugs completely, overhauled her diet, began exercising and then.... One day she went to a long standing semi-annual appointment with her principle physician who told her that she could be a danger to herself without the very neccessary medications he had prescribed her. He continued telling her how unsafe it was for her to be off the medications, especially after how long she had been taking them (5 years), even tho she said she told him she had been clean for 3 months. He coerced her into taking some samples he had on hand and to going back onto her meds. Wasn't long before she began complaining of many of the symptoms that had been resolved for 3 months, gaining weight... She told me she thought the whole process too hard, too much work, and that maybe she really DOES like the way the McDonald's food makes her feel. I told her that if she was not interested in changing what she puts in her body (fast food and unnecessary pharmaceuticals), then we might not be able to reach our treatment goals, and so we should stop right there. I did tell her that if she ever decided to take control of her life and regain her health, we would be thrilled to help with conditions. Mark Z Chinese Medicine , Hugo Ramiro <subincor wrote: > > Hi Mark: > > --- > and we have kicked-out some people. > --- > > Would you care to share some of these stories? In my opinion we are undertrained for this type of situation. > > Thanks! > Hugo > > > ________________________________ > Hugo Ramiro > http://middlemedicine.wordpress.com > http://www.chinesemedicaltherapies.org > > > > > > ________________________________ > zedbowls <zaranski > Chinese Medicine > Thursday, 1 January, 2009 19:57:19 > Re: Prepayment Plans > > > Anne, > > If the Client does not complete their treatment plan, the unused > portion of their prepay is promptly refunded to them via check, or > by the method they paid (their choice). The services used (when not > the complete plan) are charged at regular price. We discount > services only, but prepaid treatment plans include estimated herbs, > too. Their herb use is tracked in their file, so the remaining herb > credit is never a mystery. > > I created a simple agreement that both parties sign at the start > that lists all services included, as well as product credit. The > agreement spells out the refund policy and gives an extensive > example. > > We have had people decide to drop out, had people relocate, All received refunds. > > We discount 15% for sizeable prepaid plans, 10% for small plans. > > We find that Clients on prepaid plans miss appointments far less > frequently, have better compliance with diet, exercises, and herbs, > and tend to refer much more often and more vigorously than those who > do not make as deep a committment. Prepaids tend to get all the > help they really need, and have much better results because of that. > > Remember our clinic's goal is correction (as opposed to relief) as > evidenced by normal tongue and pulse. > > Mark Zaranski > East Wind Acupuncture, Inc. > > Traditional_ Chinese_Medicine , > anne.crowley@ ... wrote: > > > > Mark: > > > > You do refund the unsused portion if they decide to discontinue, > don't you? That would be figuring everything at the regular rate if > they discontinue and refunding the rest. > > > > Anne > > > > -- > > Anne C. Crowley, L.Ac., M.Ac., Dipl.Ac. > > > > www.LaPlataAcupunct ure.com > > > > ------------ -- Original message ------------ --------- - > > " zedbowls " <zaranski@ .> > > > .The best feature of prepaid plans is that they motivate > patients to > > > get all the care they need (that is if YOU are skilled enough to > > > predict how many treatments they really need to correct/resolve > > > their issue/s and if YOU are bold enough to tell them the > truth!!). > > > oNCE THEY HAVE PRPAID, ANOTHER MOTIVATOR COMES INTO PLAY BESIDES > > > WANTING TO FEEL BETTER...WANTING TO GET THEIR MONEY'S WORTH). > > > > > > Patients committed to a prepaid plan seem to refer more than > those > > > less committed. We frequently (multiple times per week) have > > > Clients who prepay for plans that span 6 months to 18 months and > > > include 12 to 70+ treatments, appropriate reevaluations, > anticipated > > > herbs, and bodywork. We also sell maintenance packages to those > who > > > have completed initial corrective care plans. > > > > > > I spoke with the State board of professional services regarding > > > prepaid plans and they responded that they had no regulations > > > prohibiting such. > > > > > > Mark Zaranski > > > East Wind Acupuncture, Inc. > > > Chesterton, Indiana > > > > > > Traditional_ Chinese_Medicine , > > > anne.crowley@ wrote: > > > > > > > > Andrea: > > > > > > > > I am in Maryland. Usually how change comes about is to go the > > > Acupuncture Board and offer to them what is done in other states > > > like MD. Let the Acupuncture board call the insurance > > > commissioner. These folks will be very protective of their turf. > > > > > > > > I don't have a contract now for my clients but will be > developing > > > something for the new year. I have heard prepayment/contract > > > bantered about in practice mgmt groups. That is why MD had to > pay > > > attention because practitioners started doing it. > > > > > > > > This is what I understand. Offer a prepayment plan to your > > > clients. It does not have to be discounted or a different fee. > It > > > is nice if you do that to offer incentive.You have to stipulate > that > > > you will refund unused treatments if they decide to stop. We > are > > > not trainers, massage therapists or whoever can keep the money > if > > > you leave.. > > > > > > > > However, what I think is fair and should be done is the > > > following: If you have discounted the package of say 5 > treatments, > > > and a client leaves after tx #3 and they have paid for 5, the > first > > > 3 should be charged at the regular rate and the remaining amount > > > refunded. Now that refund may be small because now everything > is at > > > the regular rate. You of course have to put this in bold print > and > > > also state it. The discount was given because the client > committed > > > to a group of treatments. It is fair to you and it is incentive > for > > > them to stay and see how this really works. > > > > > > > > I personally would see most people two times a week and > prescribe > > > herbs for this initial 4 weeks - maybe longer for some > patients. > > > They will see the benefits faster and be more likely to continue. > > > > > > > > My two cents > > > > > > > > Anne > > > > > > > > -- > > > > Anne C. Crowley, L.Ac., M.Ac., Dipl.Ac. > > > > > > > > www.LaPlataAcupunct ure.com > > > > > > > > ------------ -- Original message ------------ --------- - > > > > <@> > > > > > Hi All, > > > > > > > > > > I recently attended a conference in which there was a > > > conversation about > > > > > prepayment plans for acupuncture treatments. The workshop > was > > > with Samuel A. > > > > > Collins, the director of the Insurance Information Network > > > through the American > > > > > Acupuncture Council. According to him, it may be possible > for > > > acupuncturists to > > > > > incorporate prepayment plans in our practices. The > advantages > > > are an overall > > > > > lower cost per treatment for the patient, and an up-front > bulk > > > payment to the > > > > > practitioner. > > > > > > > > > > According to Mr. Collins, prepayment plans have already been > > > approved in > > > > > California and Maryland. He encourages any acupuncturist > > > interested in > > > > > establishing prepayment plans, to contact their state > department > > > of insurance > > > > > with a letter stating our intentions, and a sample of the > > > contract we intend to > > > > > use. > > > > > > > > > > I am considering exploring the legality of this in Arizona, > > > where I live. I am > > > > > looking for samples of contracts any of you might be using > for > > > this purpose, and > > > > > to hear of your experiences of exploring this in your own > areas. > > > > > > > > > > May we all have a happy, healthy, and successful new year! > > > > > > > > > > Blessings, > > > > > Andrea Beth > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Traditional Oriental Medicine > > > > > Happy Hours in the CALM Center > > > > > 1770 E. Villa Drive, Suite 5 > > > > > Cottonwood, AZ 86326 > > > > > (928) 274-1373 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 3, 2009 Report Share Posted January 3, 2009 Call your State's attorney general's office and get connected to whoever this falls under in your State. Its a straight forward question and they should either be able to answer it directly, or get back to you in a day or two. Word your agreement so that what you agree to provide for the $ is what you do (specific quantities of treatments, products, services). No guarantee of results, expressed or implyed as so much is out of the control of the practitioner (compliance with herbs, diet, etc.). what kind of liabilities are you thinking of? Mark Z Chinese Medicine , " " <johnkokko wrote: > > Hi all, > I heard that pre-pay medical plans are illegal, unless the fees are stored > in an escrow bank account. > Please clarify this. > Also, is there something special in the wording or in the presentation which > can protect you from liabilities? > > Any lawyers out there? > Thanks. > > K. > > > On Thu, Jan 1, 2009 at 4:57 PM, zedbowls <zaranski wrote: > > > Anne, > > > > If the Client does not complete their treatment plan, the unused > > portion of their prepay is promptly refunded to them via check, or > > by the method they paid (their choice). The services used (when not > > the complete plan) are charged at regular price. We discount > > services only, but prepaid treatment plans include estimated herbs, > > too. Their herb use is tracked in their file, so the remaining herb > > credit is never a mystery. > > > > I created a simple agreement that both parties sign at the start > > that lists all services included, as well as product credit. The > > agreement spells out the refund policy and gives an extensive > > example. > > > > We have had people decide to drop out, had people relocate, and we > > have kicked-out some people. All received refunds. > > > > We discount 15% for sizeable prepaid plans, 10% for small plans. > > > > We find that Clients on prepaid plans miss appointments far less > > frequently, have better compliance with diet, exercises, and herbs, > > and tend to refer much more often and more vigorously than those who > > do not make as deep a committment. Prepaids tend to get all the > > help they really need, and have much better results because of that. > > > > Remember our clinic's goal is correction (as opposed to relief) as > > evidenced by normal tongue and pulse. > > > > > > Mark Zaranski > > East Wind Acupuncture, Inc. > > > > --- In Chinese Medicine <Traditional_Chinese_Medic ine%40>, > > > > anne.crowley@ wrote: > > > > > > Mark: > > > > > > You do refund the unsused portion if they decide to discontinue, > > don't you? That would be figuring everything at the regular rate if > > they discontinue and refunding the rest. > > > > > > Anne > > > > > > -- > > > Anne C. Crowley, L.Ac., M.Ac., Dipl.Ac. > > > > > > www.LaPlataAcupuncture.com > > > > > > -------------- Original message ---------------------- > > > " zedbowls " <zaranski@> > > > > .The best feature of prepaid plans is that they motivate > > patients to > > > > get all the care they need (that is if YOU are skilled enough to > > > > predict how many treatments they really need to correct/resolve > > > > their issue/s and if YOU are bold enough to tell them the > > truth!!). > > > > oNCE THEY HAVE PRPAID, ANOTHER MOTIVATOR COMES INTO PLAY BESIDES > > > > WANTING TO FEEL BETTER...WANTING TO GET THEIR MONEY'S WORTH). > > > > > > > > Patients committed to a prepaid plan seem to refer more than > > those > > > > less committed. We frequently (multiple times per week) have > > > > Clients who prepay for plans that span 6 months to 18 months and > > > > include 12 to 70+ treatments, appropriate reevaluations, > > anticipated > > > > herbs, and bodywork. We also sell maintenance packages to those > > who > > > > have completed initial corrective care plans. > > > > > > > > I spoke with the State board of professional services regarding > > > > prepaid plans and they responded that they had no regulations > > > > prohibiting such. > > > > > > > > Mark Zaranski > > > > East Wind Acupuncture, Inc. > > > > Chesterton, Indiana > > > > > > > > --- In Chinese Medicine <Traditional_Chinese_Medic ine%40>, > > > > > > anne.crowley@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Andrea: > > > > > > > > > > I am in Maryland. Usually how change comes about is to go the > > > > Acupuncture Board and offer to them what is done in other states > > > > like MD. Let the Acupuncture board call the insurance > > > > commissioner. These folks will be very protective of their turf. > > > > > > > > > > I don't have a contract now for my clients but will be > > developing > > > > something for the new year. I have heard prepayment/contract > > > > bantered about in practice mgmt groups. That is why MD had to > > pay > > > > attention because practitioners started doing it. > > > > > > > > > > This is what I understand. Offer a prepayment plan to your > > > > clients. It does not have to be discounted or a different fee. > > It > > > > is nice if you do that to offer incentive.You have to stipulate > > that > > > > you will refund unused treatments if they decide to stop. We > > are > > > > not trainers, massage therapists or whoever can keep the money > > if > > > > you leave. > > > > > > > > > > However, what I think is fair and should be done is the > > > > following: If you have discounted the package of say 5 > > treatments, > > > > and a client leaves after tx #3 and they have paid for 5, the > > first > > > > 3 should be charged at the regular rate and the remaining amount > > > > refunded. Now that refund may be small because now everything > > is at > > > > the regular rate. You of course have to put this in bold print > > and > > > > also state it. The discount was given because the client > > committed > > > > to a group of treatments. It is fair to you and it is incentive > > for > > > > them to stay and see how this really works. > > > > > > > > > > I personally would see most people two times a week and > > prescribe > > > > herbs for this initial 4 weeks - maybe longer for some > > patients. > > > > They will see the benefits faster and be more likely to continue. > > > > > > > > > > My two cents > > > > > > > > > > Anne > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > Anne C. Crowley, L.Ac., M.Ac., Dipl.Ac. > > > > > > > > > > www.LaPlataAcupuncture.com > > > > > > > > > > -------------- Original message ---------------------- > > > > > <@> > > > > > > Hi All, > > > > > > > > > > > > I recently attended a conference in which there was a > > > > conversation about > > > > > > prepayment plans for acupuncture treatments. The workshop > > was > > > > with Samuel A. > > > > > > Collins, the director of the Insurance Information Network > > > > through the American > > > > > > Acupuncture Council. According to him, it may be possible > > for > > > > acupuncturists to > > > > > > incorporate prepayment plans in our practices. The > > advantages > > > > are an overall > > > > > > lower cost per treatment for the patient, and an up-front > > bulk > > > > payment to the > > > > > > practitioner. > > > > > > > > > > > > According to Mr. Collins, prepayment plans have already been > > > > approved in > > > > > > California and Maryland. He encourages any acupuncturist > > > > interested in > > > > > > establishing prepayment plans, to contact their state > > department > > > > of insurance > > > > > > with a letter stating our intentions, and a sample of the > > > > contract we intend to > > > > > > use. > > > > > > > > > > > > I am considering exploring the legality of this in Arizona, > > > > where I live. I am > > > > > > looking for samples of contracts any of you might be using > > for > > > > this purpose, and > > > > > > to hear of your experiences of exploring this in your own > > areas. > > > > > > > > > > > > May we all have a happy, healthy, and successful new year! > > > > > > > > > > > > Blessings, > > > > > > Andrea Beth > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Traditional Oriental Medicine > > > > > > Happy Hours in the CALM Center > > > > > > 1770 E. Villa Drive, Suite 5 > > > > > > Cottonwood, AZ 86326 > > > > > > (928) 274-1373 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 5, 2009 Report Share Posted January 5, 2009 Hi Mark, Thank you for your reply. I wasn't concerned about liabilities. However, having not drawn one of these documents before, I was hoping to find a few practitioners who already offer pre-payment plans, and who would be willing to share their contracts with me, so I could fashion a template from which to create my own. Ah, now I see your reply wasn't directed towards me... Still, anyone have a pre-payment contract they are willing to share? Thank you, Andrea Beth Traditional Oriental Medicine Happy Hours in the CALM Center 1770 E. Villa Drive, Suite 5 Cottonwood, AZ 86326 (928) 274-1373 --- On Fri, 1/2/09, zedbowls <zaranski wrote: zedbowls <zaranski Re: Prepayment Plans Chinese Medicine Friday, January 2, 2009, 10:49 PM Call your State's attorney general's office and get connected to whoever this falls under in your State. Its a straight forward question and they should either be able to answer it directly, or get back to you in a day or two. Word your agreement so that what you agree to provide for the $ is what you do (specific quantities of treatments, products, services). No guarantee of results, expressed or implyed as so much is out of the control of the practitioner (compliance with herbs, diet, etc.). what kind of liabilities are you thinking of? Mark Z Chinese Medicine , " " <johnkokko wrote: > > Hi all, > I heard that pre-pay medical plans are illegal, unless the fees are stored > in an escrow bank account. > Please clarify this. > Also, is there something special in the wording or in the presentation which > can protect you from liabilities? > > Any lawyers out there? > Thanks. > > K. > > > On Thu, Jan 1, 2009 at 4:57 PM, zedbowls <zaranski wrote: > > > Anne, > > > > If the Client does not complete their treatment plan, the unused > > portion of their prepay is promptly refunded to them via check, or > > by the method they paid (their choice). The services used (when not > > the complete plan) are charged at regular price. We discount > > services only, but prepaid treatment plans include estimated herbs, > > too. Their herb use is tracked in their file, so the remaining herb > > credit is never a mystery. > > > > I created a simple agreement that both parties sign at the start > > that lists all services included, as well as product credit. The > > agreement spells out the refund policy and gives an extensive > > example. > > > > We have had people decide to drop out, had people relocate, and we > > have kicked-out some people. All received refunds. > > > > We discount 15% for sizeable prepaid plans, 10% for small plans. > > > > We find that Clients on prepaid plans miss appointments far less > > frequently, have better compliance with diet, exercises, and herbs, > > and tend to refer much more often and more vigorously than those who > > do not make as deep a committment. Prepaids tend to get all the > > help they really need, and have much better results because of that. > > > > Remember our clinic's goal is correction (as opposed to relief) as > > evidenced by normal tongue and pulse. > > > > > > Mark Zaranski > > East Wind Acupuncture, Inc. > > > > --- In Chinese Medicine <Traditional_Chinese_Medic ine%40>, > > > > anne.crowley@ wrote: > > > > > > Mark: > > > > > > You do refund the unsused portion if they decide to discontinue, > > don't you? That would be figuring everything at the regular rate if > > they discontinue and refunding the rest. > > > > > > Anne > > > > > > -- > > > Anne C. Crowley, L.Ac., M.Ac., Dipl.Ac. > > > > > > www.LaPlataAcupuncture.com > > > > > > -------------- Original message ---------------------- > > > " zedbowls " <zaranski@> > > > > .The best feature of prepaid plans is that they motivate > > patients to > > > > get all the care they need (that is if YOU are skilled enough to > > > > predict how many treatments they really need to correct/resolve > > > > their issue/s and if YOU are bold enough to tell them the > > truth!!). > > > > oNCE THEY HAVE PRPAID, ANOTHER MOTIVATOR COMES INTO PLAY BESIDES > > > > WANTING TO FEEL BETTER...WANTING TO GET THEIR MONEY'S WORTH). > > > > > > > > Patients committed to a prepaid plan seem to refer more than > > those > > > > less committed. We frequently (multiple times per week) have > > > > Clients who prepay for plans that span 6 months to 18 months and > > > > include 12 to 70+ treatments, appropriate reevaluations, > > anticipated > > > > herbs, and bodywork. We also sell maintenance packages to those > > who > > > > have completed initial corrective care plans. > > > > > > > > I spoke with the State board of professional services regarding > > > > prepaid plans and they responded that they had no regulations > > > > prohibiting such. > > > > > > > > Mark Zaranski > > > > East Wind Acupuncture, Inc. > > > > Chesterton, Indiana > > > > > > > > --- In Chinese Medicine <Traditional_Chinese_Medic ine%40>, > > > > > > anne.crowley@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Andrea: > > > > > > > > > > I am in Maryland. Usually how change comes about is to go the > > > > Acupuncture Board and offer to them what is done in other states > > > > like MD. Let the Acupuncture board call the insurance > > > > commissioner. These folks will be very protective of their turf. > > > > > > > > > > I don't have a contract now for my clients but will be > > developing > > > > something for the new year. I have heard prepayment/contract > > > > bantered about in practice mgmt groups. That is why MD had to > > pay > > > > attention because practitioners started doing it. > > > > > > > > > > This is what I understand. Offer a prepayment plan to your > > > > clients. It does not have to be discounted or a different fee. > > It > > > > is nice if you do that to offer incentive.You have to stipulate > > that > > > > you will refund unused treatments if they decide to stop. We > > are > > > > not trainers, massage therapists or whoever can keep the money > > if > > > > you leave. > > > > > > > > > > However, what I think is fair and should be done is the > > > > following: If you have discounted the package of say 5 > > treatments, > > > > and a client leaves after tx #3 and they have paid for 5, the > > first > > > > 3 should be charged at the regular rate and the remaining amount > > > > refunded. Now that refund may be small because now everything > > is at > > > > the regular rate. You of course have to put this in bold print > > and > > > > also state it. The discount was given because the client > > committed > > > > to a group of treatments. It is fair to you and it is incentive > > for > > > > them to stay and see how this really works. > > > > > > > > > > I personally would see most people two times a week and > > prescribe > > > > herbs for this initial 4 weeks - maybe longer for some > > patients. > > > > They will see the benefits faster and be more likely to continue. > > > > > > > > > > My two cents > > > > > > > > > > Anne > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > Anne C. Crowley, L.Ac., M.Ac., Dipl.Ac. > > > > > > > > > > www.LaPlataAcupuncture.com > > > > > > > > > > -------------- Original message ---------------------- > > > > > <@> > > > > > > Hi All, > > > > > > > > > > > > I recently attended a conference in which there was a > > > > conversation about > > > > > > prepayment plans for acupuncture treatments. The workshop > > was > > > > with Samuel A. > > > > > > Collins, the director of the Insurance Information Network > > > > through the American > > > > > > Acupuncture Council. According to him, it may be possible > > for > > > > acupuncturists to > > > > > > incorporate prepayment plans in our practices. The > > advantages > > > > are an overall > > > > > > lower cost per treatment for the patient, and an up-front > > bulk > > > > payment to the > > > > > > practitioner. > > > > > > > > > > > > According to Mr. Collins, prepayment plans have already been > > > > approved in > > > > > > California and Maryland. He encourages any acupuncturist > > > > interested in > > > > > > establishing prepayment plans, to contact their state > > department > > > > of insurance > > > > > > with a letter stating our intentions, and a sample of the > > > > contract we intend to > > > > > > use. > > > > > > > > > > > > I am considering exploring the legality of this in Arizona, > > > > where I live. I am > > > > > > looking for samples of contracts any of you might be using > > for > > > > this purpose, and > > > > > > to hear of your experiences of exploring this in your own > > areas. > > > > > > > > > > > > May we all have a happy, healthy, and successful new year! > > > > > > > > > > > > Blessings, > > > > > > Andrea Beth > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Traditional Oriental Medicine > > > > > > Happy Hours in the CALM Center > > > > > > 1770 E. Villa Drive, Suite 5 > > > > > > Cottonwood, AZ 86326 > > > > > > (928) 274-1373 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 5, 2009 Report Share Posted January 5, 2009 I always heard that they are legal, if it is for a specific condition, such as 12 treatments for the price of 10 for backpain, if you prepay, but not if you collect a sum for " care as needed " . I would not worry too much about the legality; if someone in the system thinks you are doing something worng, they will write and say " Stop doing that " and you can say, " I didn't know the legal details; but I'll stop doing it. " Regards, Angela Pfaffenberger, Ph.D. angelapfa www.InnerhealthSalem.com Phone: 503 364 3022 - Chinese Medicine Friday, January 02, 2009 7:06 AM Re: Prepayment Plans Hi all, I heard that pre-pay medical plans are illegal, unless the fees are stored in an escrow bank account. Please clarify this. Also, is there something special in the wording or in the presentation which can protect you from liabilities? Any lawyers out there? Thanks. K. On Thu, Jan 1, 2009 at 4:57 PM, zedbowls <zaranski wrote: > Anne, > > If the Client does not complete their treatment plan, the unused > portion of their prepay is promptly refunded to them via check, or > by the method they paid (their choice). The services used (when not > the complete plan) are charged at regular price. We discount > services only, but prepaid treatment plans include estimated herbs, > too. Their herb use is tracked in their file, so the remaining herb > credit is never a mystery. > > I created a simple agreement that both parties sign at the start > that lists all services included, as well as product credit. The > agreement spells out the refund policy and gives an extensive > example. > > We have had people decide to drop out, had people relocate, and we > have kicked-out some people. All received refunds. > > We discount 15% for sizeable prepaid plans, 10% for small plans. > > We find that Clients on prepaid plans miss appointments far less > frequently, have better compliance with diet, exercises, and herbs, > and tend to refer much more often and more vigorously than those who > do not make as deep a committment. Prepaids tend to get all the > help they really need, and have much better results because of that. > > Remember our clinic's goal is correction (as opposed to relief) as > evidenced by normal tongue and pulse. > > > Mark Zaranski > East Wind Acupuncture, Inc. > > --- In Chinese Medicine <Chinese Medicine%40yaho\ ogroups.com>, > > anne.crowley wrote: > > > > Mark: > > > > You do refund the unsused portion if they decide to discontinue, > don't you? That would be figuring everything at the regular rate if > they discontinue and refunding the rest. > > > > Anne > > > > -- > > Anne C. Crowley, L.Ac., M.Ac., Dipl.Ac. > > > > www.LaPlataAcupuncture.com > > > > -------------- Original message ---------------------- > > " zedbowls " <zaranski > > > .The best feature of prepaid plans is that they motivate > patients to > > > get all the care they need (that is if YOU are skilled enough to > > > predict how many treatments they really need to correct/resolve > > > their issue/s and if YOU are bold enough to tell them the > truth!!). > > > oNCE THEY HAVE PRPAID, ANOTHER MOTIVATOR COMES INTO PLAY BESIDES > > > WANTING TO FEEL BETTER...WANTING TO GET THEIR MONEY'S WORTH). > > > > > > Patients committed to a prepaid plan seem to refer more than > those > > > less committed. We frequently (multiple times per week) have > > > Clients who prepay for plans that span 6 months to 18 months and > > > include 12 to 70+ treatments, appropriate reevaluations, > anticipated > > > herbs, and bodywork. We also sell maintenance packages to those > who > > > have completed initial corrective care plans. > > > > > > I spoke with the State board of professional services regarding > > > prepaid plans and they responded that they had no regulations > > > prohibiting such. > > > > > > Mark Zaranski > > > East Wind Acupuncture, Inc. > > > Chesterton, Indiana > > > > > > --- In Chinese Medicine <Chinese Medicine%40yaho\ ogroups.com>, > > > > anne.crowley@ wrote: > > > > > > > > Andrea: > > > > > > > > I am in Maryland. Usually how change comes about is to go the > > > Acupuncture Board and offer to them what is done in other states > > > like MD. Let the Acupuncture board call the insurance > > > commissioner. These folks will be very protective of their turf. > > > > > > > > I don't have a contract now for my clients but will be > developing > > > something for the new year. I have heard prepayment/contract > > > bantered about in practice mgmt groups. That is why MD had to > pay > > > attention because practitioners started doing it. > > > > > > > > This is what I understand. Offer a prepayment plan to your > > > clients. It does not have to be discounted or a different fee. > It > > > is nice if you do that to offer incentive.You have to stipulate > that > > > you will refund unused treatments if they decide to stop. We > are > > > not trainers, massage therapists or whoever can keep the money > if > > > you leave. > > > > > > > > However, what I think is fair and should be done is the > > > following: If you have discounted the package of say 5 > treatments, > > > and a client leaves after tx #3 and they have paid for 5, the > first > > > 3 should be charged at the regular rate and the remaining amount > > > refunded. Now that refund may be small because now everything > is at > > > the regular rate. You of course have to put this in bold print > and > > > also state it. The discount was given because the client > committed > > > to a group of treatments. It is fair to you and it is incentive > for > > > them to stay and see how this really works. > > > > > > > > I personally would see most people two times a week and > prescribe > > > herbs for this initial 4 weeks - maybe longer for some > patients. > > > They will see the benefits faster and be more likely to continue. > > > > > > > > My two cents > > > > > > > > Anne > > > > > > > > -- > > > > Anne C. Crowley, L.Ac., M.Ac., Dipl.Ac. > > > > > > > > www.LaPlataAcupuncture.com > > > > > > > > -------------- Original message ---------------------- > > > > <@> > > > > > Hi All, > > > > > > > > > > I recently attended a conference in which there was a > > > conversation about > > > > > prepayment plans for acupuncture treatments. The workshop > was > > > with Samuel A. > > > > > Collins, the director of the Insurance Information Network > > > through the American > > > > > Acupuncture Council. According to him, it may be possible > for > > > acupuncturists to > > > > > incorporate prepayment plans in our practices. The > advantages > > > are an overall > > > > > lower cost per treatment for the patient, and an up-front > bulk > > > payment to the > > > > > practitioner. > > > > > > > > > > According to Mr. Collins, prepayment plans have already been > > > approved in > > > > > California and Maryland. He encourages any acupuncturist > > > interested in > > > > > establishing prepayment plans, to contact their state > department > > > of insurance > > > > > with a letter stating our intentions, and a sample of the > > > contract we intend to > > > > > use. > > > > > > > > > > I am considering exploring the legality of this in Arizona, > > > where I live. I am > > > > > looking for samples of contracts any of you might be using > for > > > this purpose, and > > > > > to hear of your experiences of exploring this in your own > areas. > > > > > > > > > > May we all have a happy, healthy, and successful new year! > > > > > > > > > > Blessings, > > > > > Andrea Beth > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Traditional Oriental Medicine > > > > > Happy Hours in the CALM Center > > > > > 1770 E. Villa Drive, Suite 5 > > > > > Cottonwood, AZ 86326 > > > > > (928) 274-1373 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 8, 2009 Report Share Posted January 8, 2009 Why stop treating her? She is better off with meds, bad food and acupuncture than with just the meds and bad food... Chinese Medicine , " zedbowls " <zaranski wrote: > > time to share just one: 24 year old female college student came in > with md dx of chronic fatigue syndrome and fibromyalgia with the > requisite antidepressants, antiinflammatories, etc. > > She responded slowly but markedly during the evaluation period (first > 4 treatments) and told us she was genuinely committed to changing her > life including diet, movement, getting off her drugs, getting out of > her dis-ease...she wanted to change her life. She decided to prepay > for a rather extensive course of care (given her young age) and > responded increasingly well as she was able to taper off her drugs. > She lost almost 20#s, got off her drugs completely, overhauled her > diet, began exercising and then.... > > One day she went to a long standing semi-annual appointment with her > principle physician who told her that she could be a danger to > herself without the very neccessary medications he had prescribed > her. He continued telling her how unsafe it was for her to be off > the medications, especially after how long she had been taking them > (5 years), even tho she said she told him she had been clean for 3 > months. He coerced her into taking some samples he had on hand and > to going back onto her meds. > > Wasn't long before she began complaining of many of the symptoms that > had been resolved for 3 months, gaining weight... She told me she > thought the whole process too hard, too much work, and that maybe she > really DOES like the way the McDonald's food makes her feel. > > I told her that if she was not interested in changing what she puts > in her body (fast food and unnecessary pharmaceuticals), then we > might not be able to reach our treatment goals, and so we should stop > right there. I did tell her that if she ever decided to take control > of her life and regain her health, we would be thrilled to help with > conditions. > > Mark Z > > Chinese Medicine , Hugo Ramiro > <subincor@> wrote: > > > > Hi Mark: > > > > --- > > and we have kicked-out some people. > > --- > > > > Would you care to share some of these stories? In my opinion we > are undertrained for this type of situation. > > > > Thanks! > > Hugo > > > > > > ________________________________ > > Hugo Ramiro > > http://middlemedicine.wordpress.com > > http://www.chinesemedicaltherapies.org > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > zedbowls <zaranski@> > > Chinese Medicine > > Thursday, 1 January, 2009 19:57:19 > > Re: Prepayment Plans > > > > > > Anne, > > > > If the Client does not complete their treatment plan, the unused > > portion of their prepay is promptly refunded to them via check, or > > by the method they paid (their choice). The services used (when > not > > the complete plan) are charged at regular price. We discount > > services only, but prepaid treatment plans include estimated herbs, > > too. Their herb use is tracked in their file, so the remaining > herb > > credit is never a mystery. > > > > I created a simple agreement that both parties sign at the start > > that lists all services included, as well as product credit. The > > agreement spells out the refund policy and gives an extensive > > example. > > > > We have had people decide to drop out, had people relocate, All > received refunds. > > > > We discount 15% for sizeable prepaid plans, 10% for small plans. > > > > We find that Clients on prepaid plans miss appointments far less > > frequently, have better compliance with diet, exercises, and herbs, > > and tend to refer much more often and more vigorously than those > who > > do not make as deep a committment. Prepaids tend to get all the > > help they really need, and have much better results because of that. > > > > Remember our clinic's goal is correction (as opposed to relief) as > > evidenced by normal tongue and pulse. > > > > Mark Zaranski > > East Wind Acupuncture, Inc. > > > > Traditional_ Chinese_Medicine , > > anne.crowley@ ... wrote: > > > > > > Mark: > > > > > > You do refund the unsused portion if they decide to discontinue, > > don't you? That would be figuring everything at the regular rate if > > they discontinue and refunding the rest. > > > > > > Anne > > > > > > -- > > > Anne C. Crowley, L.Ac., M.Ac., Dipl.Ac. > > > > > > www.LaPlataAcupunct ure.com > > > > > > ------------ -- Original message ------------ --------- - > > > " zedbowls " <zaranski@ .> > > > > .The best feature of prepaid plans is that they motivate > > patients to > > > > get all the care they need (that is if YOU are skilled enough > to > > > > predict how many treatments they really need to correct/resolve > > > > their issue/s and if YOU are bold enough to tell them the > > truth!!). > > > > oNCE THEY HAVE PRPAID, ANOTHER MOTIVATOR COMES INTO PLAY > BESIDES > > > > WANTING TO FEEL BETTER...WANTING TO GET THEIR MONEY'S WORTH). > > > > > > > > Patients committed to a prepaid plan seem to refer more than > > those > > > > less committed. We frequently (multiple times per week) have > > > > Clients who prepay for plans that span 6 months to 18 months > and > > > > include 12 to 70+ treatments, appropriate reevaluations, > > anticipated > > > > herbs, and bodywork. We also sell maintenance packages to > those > > who > > > > have completed initial corrective care plans. > > > > > > > > I spoke with the State board of professional services regarding > > > > prepaid plans and they responded that they had no regulations > > > > prohibiting such. > > > > > > > > Mark Zaranski > > > > East Wind Acupuncture, Inc. > > > > Chesterton, Indiana > > > > > > > > Traditional_ Chinese_Medicine , > > > > anne.crowley@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Andrea: > > > > > > > > > > I am in Maryland. Usually how change comes about is to go > the > > > > Acupuncture Board and offer to them what is done in other > states > > > > like MD. Let the Acupuncture board call the insurance > > > > commissioner. These folks will be very protective of their > turf. > > > > > > > > > > I don't have a contract now for my clients but will be > > developing > > > > something for the new year. I have heard prepayment/contract > > > > bantered about in practice mgmt groups. That is why MD had to > > pay > > > > attention because practitioners started doing it. > > > > > > > > > > This is what I understand. Offer a prepayment plan to your > > > > clients. It does not have to be discounted or a different fee. > > It > > > > is nice if you do that to offer incentive.You have to stipulate > > that > > > > you will refund unused treatments if they decide to stop. We > > are > > > > not trainers, massage therapists or whoever can keep the money > > if > > > > you leave.. > > > > > > > > > > However, what I think is fair and should be done is the > > > > following: If you have discounted the package of say 5 > > treatments, > > > > and a client leaves after tx #3 and they have paid for 5, the > > first > > > > 3 should be charged at the regular rate and the remaining > amount > > > > refunded. Now that refund may be small because now everything > > is at > > > > the regular rate. You of course have to put this in bold print > > and > > > > also state it. The discount was given because the client > > committed > > > > to a group of treatments. It is fair to you and it is > incentive > > for > > > > them to stay and see how this really works. > > > > > > > > > > I personally would see most people two times a week and > > prescribe > > > > herbs for this initial 4 weeks - maybe longer for some > > patients. > > > > They will see the benefits faster and be more likely to > continue. > > > > > > > > > > My two cents > > > > > > > > > > Anne > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > Anne C. Crowley, L.Ac., M.Ac., Dipl.Ac. > > > > > > > > > > www.LaPlataAcupunct ure.com > > > > > > > > > > ------------ -- Original message ------------ --------- - > > > > > <@> > > > > > > Hi All, > > > > > > > > > > > > I recently attended a conference in which there was a > > > > conversation about > > > > > > prepayment plans for acupuncture treatments. The workshop > > was > > > > with Samuel A. > > > > > > Collins, the director of the Insurance Information Network > > > > through the American > > > > > > Acupuncture Council. According to him, it may be possible > > for > > > > acupuncturists to > > > > > > incorporate prepayment plans in our practices. The > > advantages > > > > are an overall > > > > > > lower cost per treatment for the patient, and an up-front > > bulk > > > > payment to the > > > > > > practitioner. > > > > > > > > > > > > According to Mr. Collins, prepayment plans have already > been > > > > approved in > > > > > > California and Maryland. He encourages any acupuncturist > > > > interested in > > > > > > establishing prepayment plans, to contact their state > > department > > > > of insurance > > > > > > with a letter stating our intentions, and a sample of the > > > > contract we intend to > > > > > > use. > > > > > > > > > > > > I am considering exploring the legality of this in Arizona, > > > > where I live. I am > > > > > > looking for samples of contracts any of you might be using > > for > > > > this purpose, and > > > > > > to hear of your experiences of exploring this in your own > > areas. > > > > > > > > > > > > May we all have a happy, healthy, and successful new year! > > > > > > > > > > > > Blessings, > > > > > > Andrea Beth > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Traditional Oriental Medicine > > > > > > Happy Hours in the CALM Center > > > > > > 1770 E. Villa Drive, Suite 5 > > > > > > Cottonwood, AZ 86326 > > > > > > (928) 274-1373 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 9, 2009 Report Share Posted January 9, 2009 I don't like to waste time. During the same time I work on someone who is fighting against the treatments by offsetting their gains with self-induced losses (thru their own decision to ingest harmful substances that are IN NO WAY NECESSARY) I could instead be working with someone who is MOTIVATED to get their health restored and who assists thru compliently following their suggested diets, showing-up for their scheduled treatments, taking their herbs, doing their assigned stretches or meridian exercises and thinking positively. If I keep working on the one who does nothing to help herself and plenty of things that hurt, she will get minimal benefits AND use up my time so I cannot work on the motivated and comnpliant one who came after. WHICH ONE should be worked on if both cannot? The antidepressant drug-taking crap-eating diet pop-drinking self- defeater doesn't really want to be there as she could instead be laying on the couch texting her friends how poorly she feels while watching soap operas and eating hostess cupocakes, makes minimal headway and tells her friends how " they won't let me eat anything good, they tell me not to have a good time (i.e., party), they think old-fashion herbs are better than the best modern science has to offer... " The compliant client moves from illness towards health in leaps and tells his friends how amazing the treatment process is, how many people he sees going in and out of the clinic who seem to-like him- be getting the help they need, how even things like his sleep and toenail fungus have resolved, how good he feels to leave the pharmaceuticals and bad-for-him foods and self-destructive habits behind him after deciding to persue health restoration, how his life has changed. I know which I chose! Now, if there was not a line of people wanting to get in the door who were sick and tired of their dis-ease(s), willing to do whatever was necessary to get their lives back on track; if the non-compliant one was all I could attract to the practice, my only source of income, my only opportunity to better my skills....I would do what I could, and work to attract the kind of clients I really wanted in the practice. Who do you want in YOUR practice? How do you help them find you? Mark Z Chinese Medicine , " jasonwcom " <jasonwcom wrote: > > Why stop treating her? She is better off with meds, bad food and > acupuncture than with just the meds and bad food... > > Chinese Medicine , " zedbowls " > <zaranski@> wrote: > > > > time to share just one: 24 year old female college student came in > > with md dx of chronic fatigue syndrome and fibromyalgia with the > > requisite antidepressants, antiinflammatories, etc. > > > > She responded slowly but markedly during the evaluation period (first > > 4 treatments) and told us she was genuinely committed to changing her > > life including diet, movement, getting off her drugs, getting out of > > her dis-ease...she wanted to change her life. She decided to prepay > > for a rather extensive course of care (given her young age) and > > responded increasingly well as she was able to taper off her drugs. > > She lost almost 20#s, got off her drugs completely, overhauled her > > diet, began exercising and then.... > > > > One day she went to a long standing semi-annual appointment with her > > principle physician who told her that she could be a danger to > > herself without the very neccessary medications he had prescribed > > her. He continued telling her how unsafe it was for her to be off > > the medications, especially after how long she had been taking them > > (5 years), even tho she said she told him she had been clean for 3 > > months. He coerced her into taking some samples he had on hand and > > to going back onto her meds. > > > > Wasn't long before she began complaining of many of the symptoms that > > had been resolved for 3 months, gaining weight... She told me she > > thought the whole process too hard, too much work, and that maybe she > > really DOES like the way the McDonald's food makes her feel. > > > > I told her that if she was not interested in changing what she puts > > in her body (fast food and unnecessary pharmaceuticals), then we > > might not be able to reach our treatment goals, and so we should stop > > right there. I did tell her that if she ever decided to take control > > of her life and regain her health, we would be thrilled to help with > > conditions. > > > > Mark Z > > > > Chinese Medicine , Hugo Ramiro > > <subincor@> wrote: > > > > > > Hi Mark: > > > > > > --- > > > and we have kicked-out some people. > > > --- > > > > > > Would you care to share some of these stories? In my opinion we > > are undertrained for this type of situation. > > > > > > Thanks! > > > Hugo > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > Hugo Ramiro > > > http://middlemedicine.wordpress.com > > > http://www.chinesemedicaltherapies.org > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > zedbowls <zaranski@> > > > Chinese Medicine > > > Thursday, 1 January, 2009 19:57:19 > > > Re: Prepayment Plans > > > > > > > > > Anne, > > > > > > If the Client does not complete their treatment plan, the unused > > > portion of their prepay is promptly refunded to them via check, or > > > by the method they paid (their choice). The services used (when > > not > > > the complete plan) are charged at regular price. We discount > > > services only, but prepaid treatment plans include estimated herbs, > > > too. Their herb use is tracked in their file, so the remaining > > herb > > > credit is never a mystery. > > > > > > I created a simple agreement that both parties sign at the start > > > that lists all services included, as well as product credit. The > > > agreement spells out the refund policy and gives an extensive > > > example. > > > > > > We have had people decide to drop out, had people relocate, All > > received refunds. > > > > > > We discount 15% for sizeable prepaid plans, 10% for small plans. > > > > > > We find that Clients on prepaid plans miss appointments far less > > > frequently, have better compliance with diet, exercises, and herbs, > > > and tend to refer much more often and more vigorously than those > > who > > > do not make as deep a committment. Prepaids tend to get all the > > > help they really need, and have much better results because of that. > > > > > > Remember our clinic's goal is correction (as opposed to relief) as > > > evidenced by normal tongue and pulse. > > > > > > Mark Zaranski > > > East Wind Acupuncture, Inc. > > > > > > Traditional_ Chinese_Medicine , > > > anne.crowley@ ... wrote: > > > > > > > > Mark: > > > > > > > > You do refund the unsused portion if they decide to discontinue, > > > don't you? That would be figuring everything at the regular rate if > > > they discontinue and refunding the rest. > > > > > > > > Anne > > > > > > > > -- > > > > Anne C. Crowley, L.Ac., M.Ac., Dipl.Ac. > > > > > > > > www.LaPlataAcupunct ure.com > > > > > > > > ------------ -- Original message ------------ --------- - > > > > " zedbowls " <zaranski@ .> > > > > > .The best feature of prepaid plans is that they motivate > > > patients to > > > > > get all the care they need (that is if YOU are skilled enough > > to > > > > > predict how many treatments they really need to correct/resolve > > > > > their issue/s and if YOU are bold enough to tell them the > > > truth!!). > > > > > oNCE THEY HAVE PRPAID, ANOTHER MOTIVATOR COMES INTO PLAY > > BESIDES > > > > > WANTING TO FEEL BETTER...WANTING TO GET THEIR MONEY'S WORTH). > > > > > > > > > > Patients committed to a prepaid plan seem to refer more than > > > those > > > > > less committed. We frequently (multiple times per week) have > > > > > Clients who prepay for plans that span 6 months to 18 months > > and > > > > > include 12 to 70+ treatments, appropriate reevaluations, > > > anticipated > > > > > herbs, and bodywork. We also sell maintenance packages to > > those > > > who > > > > > have completed initial corrective care plans. > > > > > > > > > > I spoke with the State board of professional services regarding > > > > > prepaid plans and they responded that they had no regulations > > > > > prohibiting such. > > > > > > > > > > Mark Zaranski > > > > > East Wind Acupuncture, Inc. > > > > > Chesterton, Indiana > > > > > > > > > > Traditional_ Chinese_Medicine , > > > > > anne.crowley@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Andrea: > > > > > > > > > > > > I am in Maryland. Usually how change comes about is to go > > the > > > > > Acupuncture Board and offer to them what is done in other > > states > > > > > like MD. Let the Acupuncture board call the insurance > > > > > commissioner. These folks will be very protective of their > > turf. > > > > > > > > > > > > I don't have a contract now for my clients but will be > > > developing > > > > > something for the new year. I have heard prepayment/contract > > > > > bantered about in practice mgmt groups. That is why MD had to > > > pay > > > > > attention because practitioners started doing it. > > > > > > > > > > > > This is what I understand. Offer a prepayment plan to your > > > > > clients. It does not have to be discounted or a different fee. > > > It > > > > > is nice if you do that to offer incentive.You have to stipulate > > > that > > > > > you will refund unused treatments if they decide to stop. We > > > are > > > > > not trainers, massage therapists or whoever can keep the money > > > if > > > > > you leave.. > > > > > > > > > > > > However, what I think is fair and should be done is the > > > > > following: If you have discounted the package of say 5 > > > treatments, > > > > > and a client leaves after tx #3 and they have paid for 5, the > > > first > > > > > 3 should be charged at the regular rate and the remaining > > amount > > > > > refunded. Now that refund may be small because now everything > > > is at > > > > > the regular rate. You of course have to put this in bold print > > > and > > > > > also state it. The discount was given because the client > > > committed > > > > > to a group of treatments. It is fair to you and it is > > incentive > > > for > > > > > them to stay and see how this really works. > > > > > > > > > > > > I personally would see most people two times a week and > > > prescribe > > > > > herbs for this initial 4 weeks - maybe longer for some > > > patients. > > > > > They will see the benefits faster and be more likely to > > continue. > > > > > > > > > > > > My two cents > > > > > > > > > > > > Anne > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > Anne C. Crowley, L.Ac., M.Ac., Dipl.Ac. > > > > > > > > > > > > www.LaPlataAcupunct ure.com > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------ -- Original message ------------ --------- - > > > > > > <@> > > > > > > > Hi All, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I recently attended a conference in which there was a > > > > > conversation about > > > > > > > prepayment plans for acupuncture treatments. The workshop > > > was > > > > > with Samuel A. > > > > > > > Collins, the director of the Insurance Information Network > > > > > through the American > > > > > > > Acupuncture Council. According to him, it may be possible > > > for > > > > > acupuncturists to > > > > > > > incorporate prepayment plans in our practices. The > > > advantages > > > > > are an overall > > > > > > > lower cost per treatment for the patient, and an up- front > > > bulk > > > > > payment to the > > > > > > > practitioner. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > According to Mr. Collins, prepayment plans have already > > been > > > > > approved in > > > > > > > California and Maryland. He encourages any acupuncturist > > > > > interested in > > > > > > > establishing prepayment plans, to contact their state > > > department > > > > > of insurance > > > > > > > with a letter stating our intentions, and a sample of the > > > > > contract we intend to > > > > > > > use. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I am considering exploring the legality of this in Arizona, > > > > > where I live. I am > > > > > > > looking for samples of contracts any of you might be using > > > for > > > > > this purpose, and > > > > > > > to hear of your experiences of exploring this in your own > > > areas. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > May we all have a happy, healthy, and successful new year! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Blessings, > > > > > > > Andrea Beth > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Traditional Oriental Medicine > > > > > > > Happy Hours in the CALM Center > > > > > > > 1770 E. Villa Drive, Suite 5 > > > > > > > Cottonwood, AZ 86326 > > > > > > > (928) 274-1373 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 10, 2009 Report Share Posted January 10, 2009 Chinese Medicine , " zedbowls " <zaranski wrote: " I don't like to waste time. During the same time I work on someone > who is fighting against the treatments by offsetting their gains with > self-induced losses... I could instead be working > with someone who is MOTIVATED to get their health restored... " > " If I keep working on the one who does nothing to help herself and > plenty of things that hurt, she will get minimal benefits AND use up > my time so I cannot work on the motivated and comnpliant one who came > after. > > WHICH ONE should be worked on if both cannot? " Hi Mark, The patient you've referred to specifically in other posts, was nevertheless, motivated enough to keep showing up to see you, despite the 'help' she received from the medical physician, and that she had realised that becoming well takes time, and the ability and courage to change. I am no longer surprised in this work - though still regularly saddened - by the fact that the 'kitchen cabinet' of a patient's friends, family, neighbours etc will still be the more powerful influence on their choices, irrespective of our expertise, care and diligence. There are all kinds of dynamics at play, even more so when medical physicians are operating from a position of power, and using fear-based methods of care to advise and prescribe. Hugo mentioned 'firing patients'. I've never felt the need to refrain from treating anyone. My peers and I have observed that patients often bail out when our treatment processes have brought them to a point where permanent life-altering change is imminent, and essential. Recovering health and well-being can leave an individual feeling all alone in the world, if their friends, family, and /or partner are all living lives which are incompatible with good health. An example - I've witnessed happy, stable marriages between smokers seriously challenged when one of the partners tries to quit smoking, and the other doesn't want to. Lots of 'stuff' starts to come up. I'd suggest you have been affective with this young woman, that your time was not wasted... your posts reminded me that as practitioners, we're just one of the cogs in the wheel. Bizarrely, interestingly, I've had a couple of people come to me for treatment, who were referred months or years later, by one or other of the folk who 'bailed out'. Whether we are effective or not, is always going to be seen through the filter of the patient's awareness and experiences, not just ours. And there are lots of folk out there, who will spend a life-time hopping from one practitioner to another, from one healing modality to another, and sometimes they'll be doing 5 at once... it's just the way some people are. They come, they go, and we learn from them. Margi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 12, 2009 Report Share Posted January 12, 2009 Kokko, In the U.S., insurance and managed care plans are regulated by the states. Most of the legal complexities with prepayment involve the insurance and HMO laws in the practitioner's state. In California, for example, prepayment for medical services is-- strictly speaking--illegal unless you are an HMO. The California Health & Safety Code (Knox-Keene Act) regulates HMOs in the state. Section 1345(f)(1) of this code defines a " health care service plan " or " specialized health care service plan " as: " Any person who undertakes to arrange for the provision of health care services to rs or enrollees, or to pay for or to reimburse any part of the cost for those services, in return for a prepaid or periodic charge paid by or on behalf of the rs or enrollees. " In short, if you accept prepayment in California, you're considered an HMO and would need to comply with all the laws and regs that govern HMOs. --Bill. On Jan 2, 2009, at 7:06 AM, wrote: > Hi all, > I heard that pre-pay medical plans are illegal, unless the fees are > stored > in an escrow bank account. > Please clarify this. > Also, is there something special in the wording or in the > presentation which > can protect you from liabilities? > > Any lawyers out there? > Thanks. > > K. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 13, 2009 Report Share Posted January 13, 2009 More confusion abounds! Insurance and prepaying for services are two very different things. Insurance is placing a wager: I pay $750 to place a bet that I will need more than $750 worth of (in this case) unspecified healthcare during the covered time period. Its a bet you hope to lose. Offering your clients unspecified healthcare over a period of time for a price would be selling insurance. Prepayment as discussed here means prepaying for specific services you intend to take anyway. The advantage comes in the form of " bookkeeping savings " . Our clients that prepay for their care plans have detailed treatments, etc. that they are buying. Example: 42 treatments (at specific frequencies that change over the course of treatment), 5 re- evaluations, 7 hours of specific body work, $880 worth of herbal products all to span the subsequent 10 months. Prepaying saves the clinic time and effort (at the desk, at the computer), and saves the Client time (standing in line at the desk waiting to pay). Time is money. List prices: $2940 for tx, $200 for re-evals, $490 for the body work plus the $880 in predicted products totals $4510. We offer 15% prepayment savings on SERVICES ($544.50 in this example), so the prepay would be $3965.50. We bundle in the herbs so that there is no need to exchange money after treatments. We keep a running herb balance inside their chart that also serves as a handy reminder of all the herbs they have used during the course of treatment. We also offer maintenance packages and wellness packages, again with specific quantities of specific services at discounted (for prepay) prices. We do not insist that people prepay for care, Those who partake choose to do so based on savings, convenience, and motivation. Z Chinese Medicine , Bill Mosca <mosca wrote: > > Kokko, > > In the U.S., insurance and managed care plans are regulated by the > states. Most of the legal complexities with prepayment involve the > insurance and HMO laws in the practitioner's state. > > In California, for example, prepayment for medical services is-- > strictly speaking--illegal unless you are an HMO. The California > Health & Safety Code (Knox-Keene Act) regulates HMOs in the state. > Section 1345(f)(1) of this code defines a " health care service plan " > or " specialized health care service plan " as: > > " Any person who undertakes to arrange for the provision of health care > services to rs or enrollees, or to pay for or to > reimburse any part of the cost for those services, in return for a > prepaid or periodic charge paid by or on behalf of the rs or > enrollees. " > > In short, if you accept prepayment in California, you're considered an > HMO and would need to comply with all the laws and regs that govern > HMOs. > > --Bill. > > On Jan 2, 2009, at 7:06 AM, wrote: > > > Hi all, > > I heard that pre-pay medical plans are illegal, unless the fees are > > stored > > in an escrow bank account. > > Please clarify this. > > Also, is there something special in the wording or in the > > presentation which > > can protect you from liabilities? > > > > Any lawyers out there? > > Thanks. > > > > K. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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