Gou teng, changing functions, and recognizing the power that herbs have

[Guest guest]

Hi David,

 

There are many more examples of herbs which change their function depending upon

how they're cooked or even by changing their dosages.  These are just two of

them. 

 

Though not exactly related,  I'll tell you a funny anecdote that happened with

me today, just showing how powerful herbs are:  I realized that I made a mistake

by including  small dosages of just 2 herbs that were not appropriate  in my

wife's case, though they did address some of her symptoms. (This is a very

important lesson that we must all remember, to treat the patient and not the

symptom or condition--what can I say, I'm human!)  After I made her formula on

Friday, her spasms dramatically increased, her body felt very hot, she was

angry, nervous and irritated, she was constipated and I only got her to finally

fall asleep by giving her acupuncture.  Needless to say it was not a happy day. 

When I realized what I had done, I modified the formula (including taking out

those two " hot "  herbs, of course), after which, she slept like a baby and woke

up happy, smiling and not spasming.  My wife's caregiver who was all upset with

the way my

wife had been acting (like she had control over how she felt!?) was shocked

this morning with how calm she now was. She asked me what happened, and when I

told her that I modified the formula she called me a mad scientist using my wife

as a guinea pig!  But, the main thing is that now everybody's happy!

 

Oh, BTW,  the two " hot "  herbs were Huang Lian 3g and Huang Qin 6g.  Obviously

very cold herbs, treating damp heat (which she displays sign of) but

contraindicated in cases of severe yin vacuity which unfortunately she

has, resulting in paradoxically, greater yin vacuity manifesting in severe

deficient heat. Interesting, no? 

  

 

 

 

 

--- On Sun, 12/14/08, davidetoone <davidetoone wrote:

 

davidetoone <davidetoone

Re: Gou Teng as an add last herb

Chinese Medicine

Sunday, December 14, 2008, 3:06 PM

 

 

 

 

 

 

Yehuda,

 

Thanks. Sounds like in this case Gou Teng is more like Da Huang, where the

nature of the

herb is not destroyed by cooking it differently, but merely changed.

 

Under your scenario, fully cooked Gou Teng might be a better fit for Yi Gan San,

for some

presentations where internal wind causes in facial ticks in children.

 

David Toone, L.Ac.

Health without Drugs or Surgery

441 Selborne Way

Palmetto, GA 30268

770.780.9608

www.davidtoone. com

 

Traditional_ Chinese_Medicine , yehuda frischman

<@.. .>

wrote:

>

> Dear David and Hugo,

>  

> Not necessarily!  According to Zhang JI, Gou Teng needs to be specifically 

added at the

end of cooking when particularly treating liver yang rising (hypertension) .

However

not when using it in a formula to  treat liver wind.  One other point that he

makes which is

not usually mentioned, is that Gou Teng also mildly enriches yin.

>  

> All the best,

>  

>  

>  

>

> www.traditionaljewi shmedicine. net

>  

>

> --- On Sun, 12/14/08, davidetoone <davidetoone@ ...> wrote:

>

> davidetoone <davidetoone@ ...>

> Re: Gou Teng as an add last herb

>

> Sunday, December 14, 2008, 10:22 AM

Thanks for the feedback on gou teng.

>

> David Toone, L.Ac.

> 441 Selborne Way

> Palmetto, GA 30268

> 770.780.9608

> www.davidtoone. com

>

> Traditional_ Chinese_Medicine , Hugo Ramiro <subincor@

..>

> wrote:

> >

> > Hi David; I would just add the herbs again at the end in that case.

> >

> > Hugo

> >

> >

> > ____________ _________ _________ __

> > Hugo Ramiro

> > http://middlemedici ne.wordpress. com

> > http://www.chinesem edicaltherapies. org

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > ____________ _________ _________ __

> > David Toone <davidetoone@ ...>

> >

> > Friday, 12 December, 2008 7:58:44

> > Re: Gou Teng as an add last herb

> >

> >

> > I am making an extract of Yi Gan (san) Tang. About 30 days worth. I

> > have a person come in to assist when I am busy in the clinic. Usually,

> > she does a good job, but this time she forgot and added the gou teng

> > with the rest of the herbs. By the time I caught the mistake the herbs

> > had been cooking for quite awhile. It was partially my fault as well,

> > since I clearly did not state that Gou Teng should be added last in my

> > instructions.

> >

> > Thanks

> >

> > David

> > On Dec 11, 2008, at 10:48 PM, wrote:

> >

> > > i don't really see your logic here: if you are wanting to add more

> > > at the

> > > end, why not just follow the trad instructions and add the herb in

> > > the last

> > > 5-7 min?

> > >

> > > Chinese Medicine

> > >

> > > On Thu, Dec 11, 2008 at 6:53 PM, davidetoone <davidetoone@ gmail.com>

> > > wrote:

> > >

> > > > Hello all,

> > > >

> > > > I would like to solicit opinions about what would happen if Gou

> > > Teng were

> > > > not added last, but

> > > > instead were added with all the other herbs. I learned that the

> > > active

> > > > ingredients in Gou teng

> > > > that extinguish wind are destroyed if cooked more than 10 or so

> > > minutes.

> > > >

> > > > Now my question: Would it be advisable to simply add more gou teng

> > > to the

> > > > formula at the

> > > > end in order to get the extinguish wind effect, or would that pose

> > > dosing

> > > > problems.

> > > >

> > > > Many thanks in advance.

> > > >

> > > > David Toone, L.Ac.

> > > > 441 Selborne Way

> > > > Palmetto, GA 30268

> > > > 770.780.9608

> > > > info (AT) davidtoone (DOT) com <info%40davidtoone. com>

> > > > www.davidtoone. com

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > >

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