LV/GB Digestive Complaint Case

[Guest guest]

Although bitter is associated with drying, we cannot say that every herb

that is bitter is drying. For example sheng di huang is bitter. We really

have to look at the whole picture.

 

 

 

It was also written a few messages ago that " Acrid flavor causes dispersion;

those who have qi deficiency or fire effulgence are contradictive. " I agree,

however one has to look at the individual herb and circumstances. For

example ci wu jia tonifies the Spleen qi, yet is acrid (because it unblocks

the jing-luo).

 

 

 

Since clinically and historically dang gui is not known to damage yin (it

clearly has a moistening function) we should be careful in attributing such

a property merely based on what " some " material medicas say about its flavor

(e.g. bitter). We should remember that these tastes and temperatures vary

tremendously throughout the years. Most important though is clinical usage.

It is obvious that if someone has heat giving warm / hot herbs can aggravate

the situation, but that IMO is a different (and obvious) issue.

 

 

 

However I still welcome any references that discuss dang gui as damaging the

yin.

 

 

 

(HUGO) I guess I missed where it says dang gui is good to use in dampness.

Can you please post where this came from.

 

 

 

-Jason

 

 

 

 

 

Chinese Medicine

Chinese Medicine On Behalf Of Hugo

Ramiro

 

 

 

 

 

" A bitter herb possesses DRYING, reducing and downward-moving capabilities. "

 

(CHM: Comparisons and Characteristics, YiFan Yang)

 

Dang Gui is:

" Acrid, Sweet and slight Bitter in flavour "

(Ten Lectures on the use of Medicinals, ShuDe Jiang)

 

" Slightly Sweet, Bitter and Warm "

(CHM, YiFan Yang)

 

" Sweet, Spicy, Bitter, Warm "

(Synopsis of the Pharmacopeia, Cheung, Kaw, and Law)

 

It may be that these secondary functions of Dang Gui (that it is good to use

in dampness related conditions w/o fear of it aggravating the case) are not

well known since it is so common to use only Dang Gui Shen (the body only,

not the head or tail)...???

 

Thoughts?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Hugo,

 

 

 

Dang gui is moistening, please state where it says dang gui is drying.

 

 

 

-Jason

 

 

 

 

 

Chinese Medicine

Chinese Medicine

 

 

 

So...is it drying in action or not? Dang Gui is both warm and drying...

 

Hugo

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Hi Jason:

 

Hugo

" So...is it drying in action or not? Dang Gui is both warm and drying... "

 

Woops, that's either a freudian slip or an honest mistake. I could have *sworn*

I copied what YukMing wrote: " warm and ACRID " .

 

Sorry for adding to the confusion!

 

Hugo

 

 

________________________________

Hugo Ramiro

http://middlemedicine.wordpress.com

http://www.chinesemedicaltherapies.org

 

 

 

 

 

________________________________

 

Chinese Medicine

Sunday, 14 December, 2008 11:41:36

RE: Re: LV/GB Digestive Complaint Case

 

 

Hugo,

 

Dang gui is moistening, please state where it says dang gui is drying.

 

-Jason

 

Traditional_ Chinese_Medicine [Traditional_

Chinese_Medicine ]

 

So...is it drying in action or not? Dang Gui is both warm and drying...

 

Hugo

 

 

[Guest guest]

Hi Jason:

 

Your post below is helpful and is, I believe, reflective of the standards of

herbology.

 

Jason:

 

" It was also written a few messages ago that " Acrid flavor causes dispersion;

those who have qi deficiency or fire effulgence are contradictive. " I agree,

however one has to look at the individual herb and circumstances. For

example ci wu jia tonifies the Spleen qi, yet is acrid (because it unblocks

the jing-luo). "

 

The individual circumstances are, I agree, the most important to consider. At

the same time, there is a reason that the bitter flavour is considered to be

drying. I have never read it categorically stated that something *can be* bitter

and NOT drying - have you ever come across such a reference? I would be

interested to know.

 

Jason:

" (HUGO) I guess I missed where it says dang gui is good to use in dampness.

Can you please post where this came from. "

 

I think that a lot of posts are coming in the wrong order for me. For the sake

of the list, I've copied that post I wrote at the beginning of the thread to you

personally, so as not to subject everyone to it again.

 

Thanks,

Hugo

 

 

 

 

________________________________

Hugo Ramiro

http://middlemedicine.wordpress.com

http://www.chinesemedicaltherapies.org

 

 

 

 

 

________________________________

 

Chinese Medicine

Sunday, 14 December, 2008 11:39:07

RE: Re: LV/GB Digestive Complaint Case

 

 

Although bitter is associated with drying, we cannot say that every herb

that is bitter is drying. For example sheng di huang is bitter. We really

have to look at the whole picture.

 

It was also written a few messages ago that " Acrid flavor causes dispersion;

those who have qi deficiency or fire effulgence are contradictive. " I agree,

however one has to look at the individual herb and circumstances. For

example ci wu jia tonifies the Spleen qi, yet is acrid (because it unblocks

the jing-luo).

 

Since clinically and historically dang gui is not known to damage yin (it

clearly has a moistening function) we should be careful in attributing such

a property merely based on what " some " material medicas say about its flavor

(e.g. bitter). We should remember that these tastes and temperatures vary

tremendously throughout the years. Most important though is clinical usage.

It is obvious that if someone has heat giving warm / hot herbs can aggravate

the situation, but that IMO is a different (and obvious) issue.

 

However I still welcome any references that discuss dang gui as damaging the

yin.

 

(HUGO) I guess I missed where it says dang gui is good to use in dampness.

Can you please post where this came from.

 

-Jason

 

Traditional_ Chinese_Medicine

[Traditional_ Chinese_Medicine ] On Behalf Of Hugo

Ramiro

 

" A bitter herb possesses DRYING, reducing and downward-moving capabilities. "

 

(CHM: Comparisons and Characteristics, YiFan Yang)

 

Dang Gui is:

" Acrid, Sweet and slight Bitter in flavour "

(Ten Lectures on the use of Medicinals, ShuDe Jiang)

 

" Slightly Sweet, Bitter and Warm "

(CHM, YiFan Yang)

 

" Sweet, Spicy, Bitter, Warm "

(Synopsis of the Pharmacopeia, Cheung, Kaw, and Law)

 

It may be that these secondary functions of Dang Gui (that it is good to use

in dampness related conditions w/o fear of it aggravating the case) are not

well known since it is so common to use only Dang Gui Shen (the body only,

not the head or tail)...???

 

Thoughts?

 

 

[Guest guest]

I think I posted an example, sheng di huang is bitter and not drying.

 

 

 

-Jason

 

 

 

 

 

Chinese Medicine

Chinese Medicine

 

 

The individual circumstances are, I agree, the most important to consider.

At the same time, there is a reason that the bitter flavour is considered to

be drying. I have never read it categorically stated that something *can be*

bitter and NOT drying - have you ever come across such a reference? I would

be interested to know.

 

Jason:

" (HUGO) I guess I missed where it says dang gui is good to use in dampness.

Can you please post where this came from. "

 

I think that a lot of posts are coming in the wrong order for me. For the

sake of the list, I've copied that post I wrote at the beginning of the

thread to you personally, so as not to subject everyone to it again.

 

Thanks,

Hugo

 

________________________________

Hugo Ramiro

http://middlemedicine.wordpress.com

http://www.chinesemedicaltherapies.org

 

________________________________

<

<%40Chinese Medicine> >

Chinese Medicine

<Chinese Medicine%40>

Sunday, 14 December, 2008 11:39:07

RE: Re: LV/GB Digestive Complaint Case

 

Although bitter is associated with drying, we cannot say that every herb

that is bitter is drying. For example sheng di huang is bitter. We really

have to look at the whole picture.

 

It was also written a few messages ago that " Acrid flavor causes dispersion;

those who have qi deficiency or fire effulgence are contradictive. " I

agree,

however one has to look at the individual herb and circumstances. For

example ci wu jia tonifies the Spleen qi, yet is acrid (because it unblocks

the jing-luo).

 

Since clinically and historically dang gui is not known to damage yin (it

clearly has a moistening function) we should be careful in attributing such

a property merely based on what " some " material medicas say about its flavor

(e.g. bitter). We should remember that these tastes and temperatures vary

tremendously throughout the years. Most important though is clinical usage.

It is obvious that if someone has heat giving warm / hot herbs can aggravate

the situation, but that IMO is a different (and obvious) issue.

 

However I still welcome any references that discuss dang gui as damaging the

yin.

 

(HUGO) I guess I missed where it says dang gui is good to use in dampness.

Can you please post where this came from.

 

-Jason

 

Traditional_ Chinese_Medicine

[Traditional_ Chinese_Medicine ] On Behalf Of Hugo

Ramiro

 

" A bitter herb possesses DRYING, reducing and downward-moving capabilities.

"

 

(CHM: Comparisons and Characteristics, YiFan Yang)

 

Dang Gui is:

" Acrid, Sweet and slight Bitter in flavour "

(Ten Lectures on the use of Medicinals, ShuDe Jiang)

 

" Slightly Sweet, Bitter and Warm "

(CHM, YiFan Yang)

 

" Sweet, Spicy, Bitter, Warm "

(Synopsis of the Pharmacopeia, Cheung, Kaw, and Law)

 

It may be that these secondary functions of Dang Gui (that it is good to use

in dampness related conditions w/o fear of it aggravating the case) are not

well known since it is so common to use only Dang Gui Shen (the body only,

not the head or tail)...???

 

Thoughts?

 

 

[Guest guest]

Hi Jason:

 

" I think I posted an example, sheng di huang is bitter and not drying. "

 

Let me try one last time:

 

Sheng Di Huang may have a moistening function that overbears (tremendously) its

bitter drying function. Doesn't mean the drying function is not there. I.e.

chemical isolation may be able to derive a compound from sheng di, that, when

alone, acts to dry. This is what I am talking about: so, once again, simply

answering " it is not " (a statement of fact) does not do anything for the

discussion which has to do with the applicability, range and limitation of the

theoretical descriptions that we use to manipulate herbs.

Is there anything in the CM theory (I don't know, so I am asking) that states

" there are times when an herb has a bitter flavour *and that bitter flavour is

_entirely_ devoid of any drying function* " ? In fact, yin-yang theory which

repudiates the idea of unipolar purity, would state that all herbs must contain

some seed or activity of their opposites. It /is/ a theoretical question that

may or may not have an impact on

subtler aspects of clinical work. Nevertheless, that is my question.

I hope that was clearer - I am not arguing statements of fact, which are clear,

categorical and act as blocks to penetrative insight.

 

Hugo

 

 

________________________________

Hugo Ramiro

http://middlemedicine.wordpress.com

http://www.chinesemedicaltherapies.org

 

 

 

 

 

________________________________

 

Chinese Medicine

Sunday, 14 December, 2008 14:33:30

RE: Re: LV/GB Digestive Complaint Case

 

 

 

 

I think I posted an example, sheng di huang is bitter and not drying.

 

-Jason

 

Traditional_ Chinese_Medicine

[Traditional_ Chinese_Medicine ]

 

The individual circumstances are, I agree, the most important to consider.

At the same time, there is a reason that the bitter flavour is considered to

be drying. I have never read it categorically stated that something *can be*

bitter and NOT drying - have you ever come across such a reference? I would

be interested to know.

 

Jason:

" (HUGO) I guess I missed where it says dang gui is good to use in dampness.

Can you please post where this came from. "

 

I think that a lot of posts are coming in the wrong order for me. For the

sake of the list, I've copied that post I wrote at the beginning of the

thread to you personally, so as not to subject everyone to it again.

 

Thanks,

Hugo

 

____________ _________ _________ __

Hugo Ramiro

http://middlemedici ne.wordpress. com

http://www.chinesem edicaltherapies. org

 

____________ _________ _________ __

<@chinesemed icinedoc. com

<% 40chinesemedicin edoc.com> >

 

<Traditional _Chinese_ Medicine% 40. com>

Sunday, 14 December, 2008 11:39:07

RE: Re: LV/GB Digestive Complaint Case

 

Although bitter is associated with drying, we cannot say that every herb

that is bitter is drying. For example sheng di huang is bitter. We really

have to look at the whole picture.

 

It was also written a few messages ago that " Acrid flavor causes dispersion;

those who have qi deficiency or fire effulgence are contradictive. " I

agree,

however one has to look at the individual herb and circumstances. For

example ci wu jia tonifies the Spleen qi, yet is acrid (because it unblocks

the jing-luo).

 

Since clinically and historically dang gui is not known to damage yin (it

clearly has a moistening function) we should be careful in attributing such

a property merely based on what " some " material medicas say about its flavor

(e.g. bitter). We should remember that these tastes and temperatures vary

tremendously throughout the years. Most important though is clinical usage.

It is obvious that if someone has heat giving warm / hot herbs can aggravate

the situation, but that IMO is a different (and obvious) issue.

 

However I still welcome any references that discuss dang gui as damaging the

yin.

 

(HUGO) I guess I missed where it says dang gui is good to use in dampness.

Can you please post where this came from.

 

-Jason

 

Traditional_ Chinese_Medicine

[Traditional _ Chinese_Medicine ] On Behalf Of Hugo

Ramiro

 

" A bitter herb possesses DRYING, reducing and downward-moving capabilities.

"

 

(CHM: Comparisons and Characteristics, YiFan Yang)

 

Dang Gui is:

" Acrid, Sweet and slight Bitter in flavour "

(Ten Lectures on the use of Medicinals, ShuDe Jiang)

 

" Slightly Sweet, Bitter and Warm "

(CHM, YiFan Yang)

 

" Sweet, Spicy, Bitter, Warm "

(Synopsis of the Pharmacopeia, Cheung, Kaw, and Law)

 

It may be that these secondary functions of Dang Gui (that it is good to use

in dampness related conditions w/o fear of it aggravating the case) are not

well known since it is so common to use only Dang Gui Shen (the body only,

not the head or tail)...???

 

Thoughts?

 

 

[Guest guest]

Hugo's question: " Is dang gui drying in action or not?

 

According to what I learnt in textbook, the flavor and nature of dang

gui are sweet, acrid, and warm. That is a model answer for our written

examination.

 

According to TCM theories, acridity and warmth together will transform

into dryness. Clinically, when dang gui (or any medicinal) is precribed

in a formula, its acridity and warmth aspect can be balanced by other

herbs and may not post a problem. As more than one varible is present,

I am unable to answer your question but thank you for your interest.

 

Regards,

SUNG, Yuk-ming

[Guest guest]

Hugo,

 

 

 

I guess I am a bit dense here, but I feel this conversation is falling off

into the ether, or at least out of " my " clinical reality.

 

 

 

I really don't think it matters if you can isolate a compound from sheng di

and that this compound may be drying. Honestly at this point you haven't

even proven that this is true. But more importantly, we, in CM, do not deal

with any such approach to prescribing. We deal with the whole herb. Sheng di

is moistening, it nourishes yin and generates fluids, and as we know it is

bitter, and far from drying.

 

 

 

Your assumptions are not backed by anything that I have ever read, or

experienced clinically. To move forward please provide some evidence of you

ideas, not just theoretical thoughts.I just cannot follow philosophical

discussions about " possible " aspects of " possible " herbal constitutions.

Finally, my simple mind only is interested in how we use the herbs

clinically and what that means in the treatment of disease. This is however

my understanding of where the attributes of herbs come from, the clinic.

 

 

 

Finally, one cannot just make up ideas based on an herbs flavor. Flavor is

only a guideline. One must see what it does, as a whole, in the human body.

So to answer your question, it is obvious to me, and I assume most

herbalists, that the flavor is not some absolute truth. Therefore it is

obvious (to me) that every bitter herb is not drying. Nor is every herb that

is acrid and warm drying. I have to say the burden of proof is on you, since

CM literature supports these basic ideas. To sum up, there is no way I will

agree that shengdi is drying, until I see something substantial. As stated

pervious I have never seen dang gui or sheng di damage yin or dry someone

out. Thanks though for the conversation, and please don't take offense if I

do not respond anymore.

 

 

 

Respectfully,

 

 

 

-

 

 

 

 

 

Chinese Medicine

Chinese Medicine On Behalf Of Hugo

Ramiro

Sunday, December 14, 2008 5:07 PM

Chinese Medicine

Re: Re: LV/GB Digestive Complaint Case

 

 

 

Hi Jason:

 

" I think I posted an example, sheng di huang is bitter and not drying. "

 

Let me try one last time:

 

Sheng Di Huang may have a moistening function that overbears (tremendously)

its bitter drying function. Doesn't mean the drying function is not there.

I.e. chemical isolation may be able to derive a compound from sheng di,

that, when alone, acts to dry. This is what I am talking about: so, once

again, simply answering " it is not " (a statement of fact) does not do

anything for the discussion which has to do with the applicability, range

and limitation of the theoretical descriptions that we use to manipulate

herbs.

Is there anything in the CM theory (I don't know, so I am asking) that

states " there are times when an herb has a bitter flavour *and that bitter

flavour is _entirely_ devoid of any drying function* " ? In fact, yin-yang

theory which repudiates the idea of unipolar purity, would state that all

herbs must contain some seed or activity of their opposites. It /is/ a

theoretical question that may or may not have an impact on

subtler aspects of clinical work. Nevertheless, that is my question.

I hope that was clearer - I am not arguing statements of fact, which are

clear, categorical and act as blocks to penetrative insight.

 

Hugo

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Sung,

 

I agree that many times acrid and warm can cause drying, but just because a

medicinal is acrid and warm does not make it drying. There is a big

difference here. For example, kuan dong hua and zi wan are others that

moisten while being acrid and warm.

 

One must find some discussion (e.g. clinical) that says dang gui is drying

for me to believe it. There are too many instances where it is said to be

moistening, tonify yin and of course tonify blood (which is closely related

to fluids, essence, and yin). Merely basing an herb's nature off of a book's

taste and temperature (without clinical knowledge and specific usage) is

destined for error. However I agree that other herbs will balance out

unwanted aspects, but this is entirely a different issue. Has anyone ever

seen where dang gui is said to be drying or are we just making stuff up

here?

 

-Jason

 

According to TCM theories, acridity and warmth together will transform

into dryness. Clinically, when dang gui (or any medicinal) is precribed

in a formula, its acridity and warmth aspect can be balanced by other

herbs and may not post a problem. As more than one varible is present,

I am unable to answer your question but thank you for your interest.

 

Regards,

SUNG, Yuk-ming

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Some acrid herbs make one sweat, others just move Qi and blood around.

Depending on how you look at it, something acrid and warm like Sheng jiang

for instance,

will push the ying out to the surface in the form of sweat and if one sweats

too much,

they will lose yin substance.

Or you can see it as the acrid flavor moistening the skin by bringing the

ying to the surface.

 

However, something like Dang gui is harmonizing and moistening bowels.

In the Shen nong ben cao jing it is classified as sweet, not acrid.

Is there any literature out where Dang gui makes people lose yin substance

through sweat, tears, spitting out saliva, urination or defecation? Is it

so hot that it turns water into phlegm? Does it vaporize fluids?

or

Does it replenish yin substance by virtue of being oily and nutritious?

 

K.

 

 

On Mon, Dec 15, 2008 at 5:58 PM, <

> wrote:

 

>

>

> Sung,

>

> I agree that many times acrid and warm can cause drying, but just because a

> medicinal is acrid and warm does not make it drying. There is a big

> difference here. For example, kuan dong hua and zi wan are others that

> moisten while being acrid and warm.

>

> One must find some discussion (e.g. clinical) that says dang gui is drying

> for me to believe it. There are too many instances where it is said to be

> moistening, tonify yin and of course tonify blood (which is closely related

> to fluids, essence, and yin). Merely basing an herb's nature off of a

> book's

> taste and temperature (without clinical knowledge and specific usage) is

> destined for error. However I agree that other herbs will balance out

> unwanted aspects, but this is entirely a different issue. Has anyone ever

> seen where dang gui is said to be drying or are we just making stuff up

> here?

>

> -Jason

>

> According to TCM theories, acridity and warmth together will transform

> into dryness. Clinically, when dang gui (or any medicinal) is precribed

> in a formula, its acridity and warmth aspect can be balanced by other

> herbs and may not post a problem. As more than one varible is present,

> I am unable to answer your question but thank you for your interest.

>

> Regards,

> SUNG, Yuk-ming

>

>

[Guest guest]

Jason wrote <<<just because a medicinal is acrid and warm does not

make it drying>>>

 

The nature and flavor of each medicinal is varied in its degree. For

example, xi xin (asarum) and bai jie zi (white mustard). Their

acridity and warmth are very strong and easy to cause drying, so is

dang qui.

 

Although kuan dong hua (tussilago) and zi wan (aster) are acrid and

warm in flavor and nature, it is very mild. They are moistening is

because they also contain sweet flavor. Moreover, both the herbals

are processed with honey; the preparation enhances its moistening

action.

 

<<<it is said to be moistening, tonify yin and of course tonify

blood¡¦>>>

Dang gui also contains sweet flavor. It, therefore, is moistening.

However, the degree of sweet flavor is less outstanding that its

acridity and warmth. The reason why dang gui is moistening is because

1) it contains sweet flavor that is moistening, 2) it is always

paired with bai shao and di huang, enhancing its nourishing yin blood

action while its acridity is balanced/suppressed.

 

If dang gui is used solely, the place of origin is should be taken

into consideration. Dang gui from Qian county, Gansu Province is less

acrid and warm than those from Sichaun and other provinces; however,

its moistening action is addressed more. Clinically, what we got from

wholesalers is not qian dang gui, therefore, it should be more acrid

and warm in nature and flavor.

 

I cited a case study here. A patient of ten who was emaciated marked

by both qi and blood insufficiency. He was told to take some dang gui

(Sichuan) with stewed pork meat. He had nosebleeding the following

day. When other medicinals were also prescribed to offset the

acridity and warmth nature of dang gui, nosebleeding stopped.

 

Regards,

SUNG, Yuk-ming

[Guest guest]

Sung,

 

 

 

I guess we will agree to disagree. You have given us something to think

about. I do find it odd though that no Materia Medica or medical discussion

has been produced that actually says that dang gui is drying. Did I miss a

posted reference or source somewhere? Actually all sources I checked say it

is moistening. As was noted, I previously posted many of these MM quotes

saying how it is believed (by many) to nourish yin. However, I am happy for

your opinion, and any contrary opinion to normal belief is welcomed, because

this is how our medicine advances. So maybe you are the first (?). You

mention si chuan dang gui being more acrid and drying, are there sources

that discuss this variety as been drying?

 

 

 

Furthermore your case example is far from clear or definitive. 1) where is

this from? It seems like such a case would have some nice commentary

discussing the perils of dang gui, Please source it so we (/I) can read it.

 

2) there are many reasons that can cause bleeding. I seriously doubt that

dang gui caused bleeding because it “damaged the yin,” especially in one

day. More likely is because of its warmth and moving nature. Any herb can

cause side-effects if prescribed incorrectly (e.g. creating too much heat).

Maybe the dose was too high. Maybe the diagnosis was incorrect, For example

many qi and blood xu people have heat, therefore dang gui is inappropriate.

There are too many variables with this example.

 

 

 

BTW- It is my understanding that kuan dong hua and zi wan are considered

moistening even when not prepared with honey. And yes they are sweet as is

dang gui!

 

 

 

Thanks for the conversation,

 

 

 

-Jason

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Chinese Medicine

Chinese Medicine On Behalf Of sxm2649

Tuesday, December 16, 2008 9:09 PM

Chinese Medicine

Re: LV/GB Digestive Complaint Case

 

 

 

Jason wrote <<<just because a medicinal is acrid and warm does not

make it drying>>>

 

The nature and flavor of each medicinal is varied in its degree. For

example, xi xin (asarum) and bai jie zi (white mustard). Their

acridity and warmth are very strong and easy to cause drying, so is

dang qui.

 

Although kuan dong hua (tussilago) and zi wan (aster) are acrid and

warm in flavor and nature, it is very mild. They are moistening is

because they also contain sweet flavor. Moreover, both the herbals

are processed with honey; the preparation enhances its moistening

action.

 

<<<it is said to be moistening, tonify yin and of course tonify

blood¡¦>>>

Dang gui also contains sweet flavor. It, therefore, is moistening.

However, the degree of sweet flavor is less outstanding that its

acridity and warmth. The reason why dang gui is moistening is because

1) it contains sweet flavor that is moistening, 2) it is always

paired with bai shao and di huang, enhancing its nourishing yin blood

action while its acridity is balanced/suppressed.

 

If dang gui is used solely, the place of origin is should be taken

into consideration. Dang gui from Qian county, Gansu Province is less

acrid and warm than those from Sichaun and other provinces; however,

its moistening action is addressed more. Clinically, what we got from

wholesalers is not qian dang gui, therefore, it should be more acrid

and warm in nature and flavor.

 

I cited a case study here. A patient of ten who was emaciated marked

by both qi and blood insufficiency. He was told to take some dang gui

(Sichuan) with stewed pork meat. He had nosebleeding the following

day. When other medicinals were also prescribed to offset the

acridity and warmth nature of dang gui, nosebleeding stopped.

 

Regards,

SUNG, Yuk-ming

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Most USA Dang Gui is the moister, gentler kind that is mostly white or

yellow with some brown...The strong dang gui from China is dark brown

and thinner, not sure what area but there are two distinctly different

types they look as if they could be totally different species.

 

Chinese Medicine , " sxm2649 "

<sxm2649 wrote:

>

> Jason wrote <<<just because a medicinal is acrid and warm does not

> make it drying>>>

>

> The nature and flavor of each medicinal is varied in its degree. For

> example, xi xin (asarum) and bai jie zi (white mustard). Their

> acridity and warmth are very strong and easy to cause drying, so is

> dang qui.

>

> Although kuan dong hua (tussilago) and zi wan (aster) are acrid and

> warm in flavor and nature, it is very mild. They are moistening is

> because they also contain sweet flavor. Moreover, both the herbals

> are processed with honey; the preparation enhances its moistening

> action.

>

> <<<it is said to be moistening, tonify yin and of course tonify

> blood¡¦>>>

> Dang gui also contains sweet flavor. It, therefore, is moistening.

> However, the degree of sweet flavor is less outstanding that its

> acridity and warmth. The reason why dang gui is moistening is because

> 1) it contains sweet flavor that is moistening, 2) it is always

> paired with bai shao and di huang, enhancing its nourishing yin blood

> action while its acridity is balanced/suppressed.

>

> If dang gui is used solely, the place of origin is should be taken

> into consideration. Dang gui from Qian county, Gansu Province is less

> acrid and warm than those from Sichaun and other provinces; however,

> its moistening action is addressed more. Clinically, what we got from

> wholesalers is not qian dang gui, therefore, it should be more acrid

> and warm in nature and flavor.

>

> I cited a case study here. A patient of ten who was emaciated marked

> by both qi and blood insufficiency. He was told to take some dang gui

> (Sichuan) with stewed pork meat. He had nosebleeding the following

> day. When other medicinals were also prescribed to offset the

> acridity and warmth nature of dang gui, nosebleeding stopped.

>

> Regards,

> SUNG, Yuk-ming

>

[Guest guest]

Hi, y c:

 

I sent you a formula with 11 herbs days ago but have not heard from

you. Would you kindly let me know if you have got it so I know what to

expect. Sorry for bothering you.

 

SUNG, Yuk-ming

[Guest guest]

Jason, thanks for your information. I have no idea that dang gui is

grown in states or what kinds of dang gui are available there. I

understand it is confusing to differentiate all kinds of herbs we use.

 

There is a big wholesale herbal market in Chengdu (size of big Safeway)

with hundreds of wholesaling shops. During one visit, I remember that

our herbology professor said that he could not identify clearly the

place of origin of some herbs without the benefit of sophisicated

instruments. It is more important for us, CM pratitioners to master

their usages in order to see satisfactory clinical results.

 

SUNG, Yuk-ming