Guest guest Posted November 6, 2008 Report Share Posted November 6, 2008 I have a patient 34 male. In 1997 he had his stomach stapled. Something went wrong and he had 3 more operations. Starting in 2000 he vomited every time he ate. He has been cut on Dai mai all around his body. He has another cut running from Ren 15 to Spleen 10 on the right side. On August 21, 2008 he had another operation which basically bypassed the stomach and connected his esophagus directly to the small intestine. He thinks the stomach acids are introduced into the SI someplace. His doctors at Mayo Clinic told him the only thing they could do for the pain was morphine. He no longer vomits. He continues to have bleeding hemorroids. He gets mouth sores intermittently. He has excruciating stabbing pain on his left side starting from the umbilicus and going down to the pubic bone. He is hot to the touch in that area. The rest of his body with the exception of his head is cool to the touch. He is crouched over because he says it hurts to stand straight. The pain follows the Stomach muscular channel perfectly. His pulse is tight, thin but big and not forceful. His tongue is red with a superficial crack on the mid-line. It is moist. What have I tried. Moxa on the area of pain. No impact. Cupping the area. NO impact. Clearing the dai mai. No impact. I needled along the stomach muscular channel and he found the needling painful but it had no impact on the pain. Acupressure on Ren and Du mai. I was able to equalize his body temperature but he said it made no difference to his pain. Today I did 108 direct moxas on Bladder 43 to open the chest and let the energy flow. I have done this with acid reflux patients and it cures them for several months and they report the treatment makes them feel very free inside. NO Impact, once again. I gave him Shen Tong Zhu Yu Tang for the pain starting today but I am not sure he can absorb the formula. He is becoming emaciated. He finds it tiring to speak. Monday I will take him to a qi gong master to see if she can prescribe some exercises for him. My diagnosis is that he has blood stasis along with underlying deficiency. I want to move the blood first. Also I don't know how much of anything he is able to absorb. What do you suggest? Is there a more effective modality? Thank you. Zinnia Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 6, 2008 Report Share Posted November 6, 2008 Bloodletting and cupping UB 40 will take care of the hemorrhoids. As for the St pain and mouth sores, try the Lower 3 Emperors, St 34, 36, 44. Use the Liver Channel for the Blood Stasis - try using Liv 2, 3, 6. Please do not do this bilaterally. As for Rx's, try something more focused than Shen Tong Zhu Yu Tang - Tao Hong Si Wu Tang, Dan Shen Pian, and Ge Xia Zhu Yu Tang come to mind. Let us know what happens. Best regards, On Wed, Nov 5, 2008 at 7:36 PM, C. Zinnia Maravell <cmszinniawrote: > I have a patient 34 male. In 1997 he had his stomach stapled. Something > went wrong and > he had 3 more operations. Starting in 2000 he vomited every time he ate. He > has been > cut on Dai mai all around his body. He has another cut running from Ren 15 > to Spleen 10 > on the right side. On August 21, 2008 he had another operation which > basically bypassed > the stomach and connected his esophagus directly to the small intestine. He > thinks the > stomach acids are introduced into the SI someplace. His doctors at Mayo > Clinic told him > the only thing they could do for the pain was morphine. > > He no longer vomits. He continues to have bleeding hemorroids. He gets > mouth sores > intermittently. > > He has excruciating stabbing pain on his left side starting from the > umbilicus and going > down to the pubic bone. He is hot to the touch in that area. The rest of > his body with the > exception of his head is cool to the touch. He is crouched over because he > says it hurts to > stand straight. The pain follows the Stomach muscular channel perfectly. > > His pulse is tight, thin but big and not forceful. His tongue is red with a > superficial crack > on the mid-line. It is moist. > > What have I tried. Moxa on the area of pain. No impact. Cupping the area. > NO impact. > Clearing the dai mai. No impact. I needled along the stomach muscular > channel and he > found the needling painful but it had no impact on the pain. Acupressure on > Ren and Du > mai. I was able to equalize his body temperature but he said it made no > difference to his > pain. Today I did 108 direct moxas on Bladder 43 to open the chest and let > the energy > flow. I have done this with acid reflux patients and it cures them for > several months and > they report the treatment makes them feel very free inside. NO Impact, once > again. > > I gave him Shen Tong Zhu Yu Tang for the pain starting today but I am not > sure he can > absorb the formula. He is becoming emaciated. He finds it tiring to speak. > > Monday I will take him to a qi gong master to see if she can prescribe some > exercises for > him. > > My diagnosis is that he has blood stasis along with underlying deficiency. > I want to move > the blood first. Also I don't know how much of anything he is able to > absorb. > > What do you suggest? Is there a more effective modality? > > Thank you. > Zinnia > > > -- Robert Chu, PhD, L.Ac. QME chusauli See my webpages at: www.chusaulei.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 6, 2008 Report Share Posted November 6, 2008 Hi Zinnia, Robert gave you some really solid advice to get started on. I would offer two more points - 1. as much as it is irrelevant to his perception of his pain, it is significant that you normalised his body temperature, we _all start somewhere_. He needs patience and time, _he needs patience and time_. Hopefully you will do something magical, but when someone is, frankly, as screwed up as he is, we can simply hope for slow consistent progress, not miracle cures. 2. Whenever we are faced with an immovable mass, we apply pressure and lack of pressure all around, and we sense where the movement or response is. Every immovable mass has a point of response. Then, like water we begin to wear down the hardness and nurture the growth: " Under Heaven, nothing is more soft and yielding than Water. Yet for attacking the solid and strong, nothing is better. It has no equal. The weak can overcome the strong. " (Tao Teh Ching) It _is not fair to yourself_ to say " no response " " no response " , in fact you may hold yourself back and break your own spirit. The man has suffered multiple severe internal injuries including removal of organs and has not been able to take in post-heaven nourishment properly for years; he cannot be expected to respond like a twenty year old. He needs to be _nursed_ back to health, _nurtured_ back to balance. Forgive my passion tonight. Good luck, Hugo ________________________________ Hugo Ramiro http://middlemedicine.wordpress.com http://www.chinesemedicaltherapies.org ________________________________ C. Zinnia Maravell <cmszinnia Chinese Medicine Wednesday, 5 November, 2008 22:36:15 extreme pain I have a patient 34 male. In 1997 he had his stomach stapled. Something went wrong and he had 3 more operations. Starting in 2000 he vomited every time he ate. He has been cut on Dai mai all around his body. He has another cut running from Ren 15 to Spleen 10 on the right side. On August 21, 2008 he had another operation which basically bypassed the stomach and connected his esophagus directly to the small intestine. He thinks the stomach acids are introduced into the SI someplace. His doctors at Mayo Clinic told him the only thing they could do for the pain was morphine. He no longer vomits. He continues to have bleeding hemorroids. He gets mouth sores intermittently. He has excruciating stabbing pain on his left side starting from the umbilicus and going down to the pubic bone. He is hot to the touch in that area. The rest of his body with the exception of his head is cool to the touch. He is crouched over because he says it hurts to stand straight. The pain follows the Stomach muscular channel perfectly. His pulse is tight, thin but big and not forceful. His tongue is red with a superficial crack on the mid-line. It is moist. What have I tried. Moxa on the area of pain. No impact. Cupping the area. NO impact. Clearing the dai mai. No impact. I needled along the stomach muscular channel and he found the needling painful but it had no impact on the pain. Acupressure on Ren and Du mai. I was able to equalize his body temperature but he said it made no difference to his pain. Today I did 108 direct moxas on Bladder 43 to open the chest and let the energy flow. I have done this with acid reflux patients and it cures them for several months and they report the treatment makes them feel very free inside. NO Impact, once again. I gave him Shen Tong Zhu Yu Tang for the pain starting today but I am not sure he can absorb the formula. He is becoming emaciated. He finds it tiring to speak. Monday I will take him to a qi gong master to see if she can prescribe some exercises for him. My diagnosis is that he has blood stasis along with underlying deficiency. I want to move the blood first. Also I don't know how much of anything he is able to absorb. What do you suggest? Is there a more effective modality? Thank you. Zinnia Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 6, 2008 Report Share Posted November 6, 2008 Zinnia Using Chong Mai may help him. As the sea of blood Chong Mai will be very useful in this case as it will move blood deeply.(It controls the movement of blood to all the deep blood connecting channels) You can use opening and couple points as well as the sea of blood points BL 11 ST37 AND ST39 Ray _____ Chinese Medicine Chinese Medicine On Behalf Of C. Zinnia Maravell Thursday, 6 November 2008 2:36 PM Chinese Medicine extreme pain I have a patient 34 male. In 1997 he had his stomach stapled. Something went wrong and he had 3 more operations. Starting in 2000 he vomited every time he ate. He has been cut on Dai mai all around his body. He has another cut running from Ren 15 to Spleen 10 on the right side. On August 21, 2008 he had another operation which basically bypassed the stomach and connected his esophagus directly to the small intestine. He thinks the stomach acids are introduced into the SI someplace. His doctors at Mayo Clinic told him the only thing they could do for the pain was morphine. He no longer vomits. He continues to have bleeding hemorroids. He gets mouth sores intermittently. He has excruciating stabbing pain on his left side starting from the umbilicus and going down to the pubic bone. He is hot to the touch in that area. The rest of his body with the exception of his head is cool to the touch. He is crouched over because he says it hurts to stand straight. The pain follows the Stomach muscular channel perfectly. His pulse is tight, thin but big and not forceful. His tongue is red with a superficial crack on the mid-line. It is moist. What have I tried. Moxa on the area of pain. No impact. Cupping the area. NO impact. Clearing the dai mai. No impact. I needled along the stomach muscular channel and he found the needling painful but it had no impact on the pain. Acupressure on Ren and Du mai. I was able to equalize his body temperature but he said it made no difference to his pain. Today I did 108 direct moxas on Bladder 43 to open the chest and let the energy flow. I have done this with acid reflux patients and it cures them for several months and they report the treatment makes them feel very free inside. NO Impact, once again. I gave him Shen Tong Zhu Yu Tang for the pain starting today but I am not sure he can absorb the formula. He is becoming emaciated. He finds it tiring to speak. Monday I will take him to a qi gong master to see if she can prescribe some exercises for him. My diagnosis is that he has blood stasis along with underlying deficiency. I want to move the blood first. Also I don't know how much of anything he is able to absorb. What do you suggest? Is there a more effective modality? Thank you. Zinnia Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 6, 2008 Report Share Posted November 6, 2008 Dear Zinna . well for me when the discussion is about pain my first option is always auricular acupuncture .first do a general auricular scan or diagnosis and that will tell you where to start or if you have any body who knows anti.focal therapy may be able to help a great deal. regards. Dr,Fadaie --- On Wed, 11/5/08, C. Zinnia Maravell <cmszinnia wrote: C. Zinnia Maravell <cmszinnia extreme pain Chinese Medicine Wednesday, November 5, 2008, 9:36 PM I have a patient 34 male. In 1997 he had his stomach stapled. Something went wrong and he had 3 more operations. Starting in 2000 he vomited every time he ate. He has been cut on Dai mai all around his body. He has another cut running from Ren 15 to Spleen 10 on the right side. On August 21, 2008 he had another operation which basically bypassed the stomach and connected his esophagus directly to the small intestine. He thinks the stomach acids are introduced into the SI someplace. His doctors at Mayo Clinic told him the only thing they could do for the pain was morphine. He no longer vomits. He continues to have bleeding hemorroids. He gets mouth sores intermittently. He has excruciating stabbing pain on his left side starting from the umbilicus and going down to the pubic bone. He is hot to the touch in that area. The rest of his body with the exception of his head is cool to the touch. He is crouched over because he says it hurts to stand straight. The pain follows the Stomach muscular channel perfectly. His pulse is tight, thin but big and not forceful. His tongue is red with a superficial crack on the mid-line. It is moist. What have I tried. Moxa on the area of pain. No impact. Cupping the area. NO impact. Clearing the dai mai. No impact. I needled along the stomach muscular channel and he found the needling painful but it had no impact on the pain. Acupressure on Ren and Du mai. I was able to equalize his body temperature but he said it made no difference to his pain. Today I did 108 direct moxas on Bladder 43 to open the chest and let the energy flow. I have done this with acid reflux patients and it cures them for several months and they report the treatment makes them feel very free inside. NO Impact, once again. I gave him Shen Tong Zhu Yu Tang for the pain starting today but I am not sure he can absorb the formula. He is becoming emaciated. He finds it tiring to speak. Monday I will take him to a qi gong master to see if she can prescribe some exercises for him. My diagnosis is that he has blood stasis along with underlying deficiency. I want to move the blood first. Also I don't know how much of anything he is able to absorb. What do you suggest? Is there a more effective modality? Thank you. Zinnia Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 7, 2008 Report Share Posted November 7, 2008 Sounds like a real challenge... Is there a lot of scar tissue and is any of it still inflamed or irritable? Concentrating on helping scars that haven't healed fully can help a lot and is not usually that difficult to do. Castor oil packs, needles around the scar are simple, though there are many approaches to treating scars. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 7, 2008 Report Share Posted November 7, 2008 I feel for your patient who suffers such a pain. If you do herbals and do not mind answering a few follow-up questions, I would like to suggest a formula to relieve his pain, based upon the pathomechanism and etiology of TCM. Regards, SUNG, Yuk-ming, PhD (Chengdu), BA (Houston), L. Ac & CMD (HK) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 7, 2008 Report Share Posted November 7, 2008 I feel for your patient who suffers such a pain. If you do herbals and do not mind answering a few follow-up questions, I would like to suggest a formula to relieve his pain, based upon the pathomechanism and etiology of TCM. Regards, SUNG, Yuk-ming, PhD (Chengdu), BA (Houston), L. Ac & CMD (HK) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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