Tongue/Asbergers

[Guest guest]

Hi I am a mom of a seven year old who has autism. Believe it or not I

haven't really done anything with acupuncture or herbs with him. He was far

to sensitive for acupuncture and I encountered enzymes that worked so well

for him that I haven't went that route. The biomedical route is phenomenal

for those on the spectrum. Lots of gut/brain issues. So I don't have a lot

of input from TCM other than I have heard of three points on the side of the

head above the ear (you can look back in the archives for them) and along

with heart most definately look at how he presents with SP/ST issues. And

get him on a good probiotic for sure!!! My son has a red tip and his tongue

curls up at the end, pretty consistent in these kids. And just for

semantics it is Asperger's with a P not a B.

 

I would be really interested to hear other's input, especially herbally.

 

Si shen cong might be nice on him, if he can handle the needles, be extra

gentle, no da qi, these people are EXTREMELY sentive to sensory input.

EXTREMELY.

 

Julie

 

 

 

On Thu, Oct 23, 2008 at 7:18 AM, loulumina <loulumina wrote:

>

> Hello all; I am a new practitioner, pretty awed by the accumulated

> experience evident here.

> I saw for the first time yesterday a new patient, a young (23) year old

> man who has the western diagnosis of asbergers.I would not necessarily

> have picked this up; he was unusual, but so are we all. He intereacted

> easily; was a bit challenged when speaking of emotions. He noted that

> he feels dependent on external stimuli (to want to wake in the morning,

> for instance, and otherwise)

> So far, i have not seen a tongue like his : a 'heart' type tongue in

> length, and with a very red tip; very thin strands of phlegmyness along

> the sides.What I hadnt seen begfore were the * 2 * distinct cracks at

> centre. They almost , but not quite , reached to the tip. is there

> significance to this?

> He came in both because of back pain, and by the urging of his parents

> both of whom have benefitted very much from acuouncture, bioth

> physically and in the sense of 'feeling more clear " .

> This young man's body type was sort of undeveloped -narrow shoulders,

> thin. His eyes were large and bright but almost impenetrable.Pulse was

> deeper than im accustomed to finding on someone his age and gender, and

> probably cottony.

> Im am curious if anyone has experience with Asbergers patients, and if

> there is any consistency in CM terms to what you observe. Id welcome

> any input or perspective!

>

>

>

 

 

 

--

Julie Ormonde, L.Ac.

Auburn Community Acupuncture

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Hi " Lou " (?);

It is spelled Asperger after the guy who described it way back when...I am sure

you'll get a lot of info on how to proceed, so I will keep my suggestion simple.

Eliminate the word " Asperger's " from your vocabulary. It will only confuse and

limit you.

Do a detailed CM intake, follow the evidence and proceed in a supple fashion.

Put it together from a CM perspective. Ignore the WM label in this case.

 

Hope that's helpful!

 

Hugo

 

 

________________________________

Hugo Ramiro

http://middlemedicine.wordpress.com

http://www.chinesemedicaltherapies.org

 

 

 

 

 

loulumina <loulumina

Chinese Medicine

Thursday, 23 October, 2008 10:18:17

Tongue/Asbergers

 

 

Hello all; I am a new practitioner, pretty awed by the accumulated

experience evident here.

I saw for the first time yesterday a new patient, a young (23) year old

man who has the western diagnosis of asbergers.I would not necessarily

have picked this up; he was unusual, but so are we all. He intereacted

easily; was a bit challenged when speaking of emotions. He noted that

he feels dependent on external stimuli (to want to wake in the morning,

for instance, and otherwise)

So far, i have not seen a tongue like his : a 'heart' type tongue in

length, and with a very red tip; very thin strands of phlegmyness along

the sides.What I hadnt seen begfore were the * 2 * distinct cracks at

centre. They almost , but not quite , reached to the tip. is there

significance to this?

He came in both because of back pain, and by the urging of his parents

both of whom have benefitted very much from acuouncture, bioth

physically and in the sense of 'feeling more clear " .

This young man's body type was sort of undeveloped -narrow shoulders,

thin. His eyes were large and bright but almost impenetrable. Pulse was

deeper than im accustomed to finding on someone his age and gender, and

probably cottony.

Im am curious if anyone has experience with Asbergers patients, and if

there is any consistency in CM terms to what you observe. Id welcome

any input or perspective!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Chinese Medicine , " loulumina "

<loulumina wrote:

>

" Hello all; I am a new practitioner, pretty awed by the accumulated

experience evident here. I saw for the first time yesterday a new

patient, a young (23) year old man who has the western diagnosis of

asbergers... "

" ...a bit challenged when speaking of emotions... "

" So far, i have not seen a tongue like his : a 'heart' type tongue in

length, and with a very red tip; very thin strands of phlegmyness

along the sides.What I hadnt seen begfore were the * 2 * distinct

cracks at centre. They almost , but not quite , reached to the tip.

is there significance to this? "

" He came in both because of back pain, and by the urging of his

parents...His eyes were large and bright but almost impenetrable.... "

 

 

 

Hi 'Lou'

Like any of us here, I've read and 'seen' this from only my own

perspective, so it doesn't mean I'm right! Hence the edit of your

original post so you can see what I saw in your case notes.

 

For my ten cents worth:

 

Ascertain if he actually wants to be there, receiving treatment, or

if he's responding to his parent's urging; it might be they who are

hoping you can help their son with his " Aspergers " , not the young man

himself. He might just be there for his BACK PAIN, which I'm guessing

is more important to him than anything else. Ask him.

 

Tongue cracks almost to the very red tip, challenged when speaking of

emotions, large bright almost impenetrable eyes - SHEN /HEART stuff,

which WSM sees is Aspergers in him. Treat the Heart / Shen if it

relates to his back pain, if not, just leave it alone for now.

 

For tricky or interesting tongues I love Barbara Kirschbaum's 'Atlas

of Chinese Tongue Diagnosis' - for each juicy colour photo of a

tongue there are listed the presenting complaints, TCM & WSM

diagnoses, background to disease, and a comment about notable

features of the tongue. I like that these are the tongues of

westerners, eating western food, leading western lives... different

from the tongues of Chinese folk which in the past featured in many

TCM texts.

 

I'm thankful - again - for the advice of one of my favourite

teachers; in complex cases, simply treat what the patient wants

treated.

 

Good luck

 

Margi