Guest guest Posted May 17, 2006 Report Share Posted May 17, 2006 Hi Bill, From my notes I believe Joanna Zhao said to consider the Yang Qiao extra meridian when treating cancer pain. Also, I believe Kiiko Matsumoto (from her book or a seminar) needles under the 2nd toe in the most proximal crease for the same thing. If I dig up any more info I'll post it for ya. Danny Johnson L.Ac. www.santacruzacupuncture.com On May 17, 2006, at 1:18 PM, Bill Schoenbart wrote: > I'm preparing to treat an 82-year-old relative with acupuncture for > pain due > to metastasized lung cancer that has gone to the hip bone. Other > than the > pain, his symptoms are all due to the chemo he did, although I > begged him > not to do it: bowel and bladder incontinence, extreme weakness, > repeated > pneumonia due to immune suppression, and others. I'm fairly > confident I will > be able to treat those symptoms with herbs. His oncologist wouldn't > let him > take any herbs during the chemo, so the chemo has nearly killed > him. This in > a man who had no symptoms and was strong and healthy (other than > having > cancer) before his " treatment " . Hard to believe that this is still > going on > in the 21st century ... > > My request is for acupuncture techniques that any of you have found > especially effective for pain, especially cancer pain. The last > time I saw > him in March, the treatments I gave him barely helped at all. I > used both > Dr. Tan distal point treatments and standard TCM local point/distal > point > treatments. Neither did much, which is quite frustrating, since > acupuncture > almost always works for pain. I have already received > recommendations to use > " turtle technique " around the pain, as well as some ear points, > which I'll > try when I get there. > > Any suggestions? > > - Bill Schoenbart > > ................................. > Bill Schoenbart, L.Ac. > PO Box 8099 > Santa Cruz, CA 95061 > > 831-335-3165 > plantmed > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 18, 2006 Report Share Posted May 18, 2006 Hi Bill, I would use auricular points The special tumor area located on a line extedning from Helix #4 to #6 on the earlobe. It is indicated as a definite analgesic effect for pain from tumors. O'Connor & Bensky (1997), Acupuncture A Comprehensive Text (Fourteenth printing) Seattle: Eastland Press, Inc., Pp. 478, 490 You can also combined this with the auricular points: Corresponding body area, Sympathetic point, and Shen men. These are adapted from an auricular cancer protocol: Primary: , Thymus Gland, , Heart.C, Point Zero, Shen men, Thyroid Gland.E Oleson, T (2003), Auriculotherapy Manual (Third edition) London: Churchill Livingstone., Pp. 312 I hope this helps! Steve Be a chatter box. Enjoy free PC-to-PC calls with Messenger with Voice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 18, 2006 Report Share Posted May 18, 2006 One of my lecturers used to go into palliative care wards and do acupuncture for pain relief. I think that it wasnt really the points chosen that were so important, but the fact that he used electroacupuncture stimulation. He used a combination of hertz in the treatment that affected different pain pathways so that the patient got immediate, short term acupuncture analgesia with one frequency and then the longer term analgesia with another frequency. , Danny Johnson <danny wrote: > > Hi Bill, > From my notes I believe Joanna Zhao said to consider the Yang Qiao > extra meridian when treating cancer pain. Also, I believe Kiiko > Matsumoto (from her book or a seminar) needles under the 2nd toe in > the most proximal crease for the same thing. > > If I dig up any more info I'll post it for ya. > > Danny Johnson L.Ac. > www.santacruzacupuncture.com > > > > On May 17, 2006, at 1:18 PM, Bill Schoenbart wrote: > > > I'm preparing to treat an 82-year-old relative with acupuncture for > > pain due > > to metastasized lung cancer that has gone to the hip bone. Other > > than the > > pain, his symptoms are all due to the chemo he did, although I > > begged him > > not to do it: bowel and bladder incontinence, extreme weakness, > > repeated > > pneumonia due to immune suppression, and others. I'm fairly > > confident I will > > be able to treat those symptoms with herbs. His oncologist wouldn't > > let him > > take any herbs during the chemo, so the chemo has nearly killed > > him. This in > > a man who had no symptoms and was strong and healthy (other than > > having > > cancer) before his " treatment " . Hard to believe that this is still > > going on > > in the 21st century ... > > > > My request is for acupuncture techniques that any of you have found > > especially effective for pain, especially cancer pain. The last > > time I saw > > him in March, the treatments I gave him barely helped at all. I > > used both > > Dr. Tan distal point treatments and standard TCM local point/distal > > point > > treatments. Neither did much, which is quite frustrating, since > > acupuncture > > almost always works for pain. I have already received > > recommendations to use > > " turtle technique " around the pain, as well as some ear points, > > which I'll > > try when I get there. > > > > Any suggestions? > > > > - Bill Schoenbart > > > > ................................. > > Bill Schoenbart, L.Ac. > > PO Box 8099 > > Santa Cruz, CA 95061 > > > > 831-335-3165 > > plantmed > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 19, 2006 Report Share Posted May 19, 2006 Thanks to everyone with the acupuncture suggestions for treating cancer pain. I appreciate the feedback. - Bill Schoenbart Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 21, 2006 Report Share Posted May 21, 2006 Are, Where on your web site is that cancer info? Interestingly, this morning I was able to stop a severe attack of pain in less than a minute with only Ear Shenmen and Ear Sympathetic on both sides. This is the first time I've seen him since March, but back then nothing worked to stop the pain. Hospice workers have started coming over to help. Those people are saints! - Bill Schoenbart ...................................... Bill Schoenbart, L.Ac. PO Box 8099 Santa Cruz, CA 95061 831-335-3165 plantmed >>>>Dear all + Bill, I have had very good effects on the cancer pain in treating the cancer itself as described on my homepage, that is on http://home.online.no/~arethore/engelsk/index.html Are Simeon Thoresen arethore <arethore http://home.online.no/~arethore/ >>> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 21, 2006 Report Share Posted May 21, 2006 Danny, I spoke with Joanna Zhao before I left Santa Cruz. She recommended Ear Shenmen and Ear Sympathetic and turtle technique, but she didn't mention the Yangqiao meridian. I'm not sure which point you are refering to. I'm planning on trying that Kiko point. I'm curious to see how it will work, since he has non-diabetic peripheral neuropathy and can't feel a thing in his feet. I have had success in reducing swelling in his feet in the past with local points, but I'm wondering how a point will get the Qi when there is no sensory nervous input. Does anybody on the list have experience using acupuncture on paralyzed extermities or extremities that have no sensation? Any difference in efficacy? - Bill Schoenbart .................................... Bill Schoenbart, L.Ac. PO Box 8099 Santa Cruz, CA 95061 831-335-3165 plantmed >>>>> Hi Bill, From my notes I believe Joanna Zhao said to consider the Yang Qiao extra meridian when treating cancer pain. Also, I believe Kiiko Matsumoto (from her book or a seminar) needles under the 2nd toe in the most proximal crease for the same thing. If I dig up any more info I'll post it for ya. Danny Johnson L.Ac. www.santacruzacupuncture.com >>>>>>>>>> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 22, 2006 Report Share Posted May 22, 2006 Hi Bill, I looked at my notes and Joanna had mentioned that it was not just any specific point on the Yang Qiao channel, but the channel as a whole. Sometimes needling 5-10 points on it. It was when she was teaching us about the extra meridians. The pain that was mentioned was late stage bone cancer pain. Wish I had more info, sorry! I would start by determining the affected meridians and go from there. Take care! -Danny > Danny, > > I spoke with Joanna Zhao before I left Santa Cruz. She recommended Ear > Shenmen and Ear Sympathetic and turtle technique, but she didn't > mention the > Yangqiao meridian. I'm not sure which point you are refering to. > > - Bill Schoenbart > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 5, 2008 Report Share Posted October 5, 2008 Hi all ! Would you please email me some reference comments about acupuncture treatment protocols/technics of the following conditions : 1. Cancer Pain 2. Gout 3. Rhomatoid Arthritis Regards, Mehdi Hashemi MD, AP gitavarz mhashemi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 12, 2008 Report Share Posted October 12, 2008 Hello Doctor! Google *Special 300-Needle Treatment for use by MDs only* Also, I'm curious where you obtained your AP credential? (My Acupuncture Physician status per CALC3209.3 is all but useless these days, so I don't often trifle with differential of arthritides or METS) Regards, joe >>>gitavarz wrote: > Would you please email me some reference comments about acupuncture > treatment protocols/technics of the following conditions : > 1. Cancer Pain > 2. Gout > 3. Rhomatoid Arthritis > Regards, > Mehdi Hashemi MD, AP > gitavarz > mhashemi <<< Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 19, 2008 Report Share Posted October 19, 2008 I didn't see a relevant hit on that search term. Can someone post a hyperlink? -Tim Sharpe LAc Chinese Medicine Chinese Medicine On Behalf Of jreidomd Saturday, October 11, 2008 6:39 PM Chinese Medicine Re: cancer pain Hello Doctor! Google *Special 300-Needle Treatment for use by MDs only* Also, I'm curious where you obtained your AP credential? (My Acupuncture Physician status per CALC3209.3 is all but useless these days, so I don't often trifle with differential of arthritides or METS) Regards, joe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 19, 2008 Report Share Posted October 19, 2008 re Google - 300-needle technique is the next level beyond 200-needle. As with 50-herb formulas, there are only a few living masters capable of explaining the action in precise detail with the confident self-assurance necessary to replicate the truly amazing results. You really should go to the seminar - they teach you a few new coded buzzwords and award Diplomate if you're already an MD or DC. Others get Fellow (LAc's get a certificate). Apologies for joking about a serious topic. joe the doctor sort of jreidomd.blogspot.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 19, 2008 Report Share Posted October 19, 2008 Chinese Medicine , " jreidomd " <jreidomd wrote: > > re Google - 300-needle technique is the next level beyond 200- needle. > As with 50-herb formulas, there are only a few living masters capable > of explaining the action in precise detail with the confident > self-assurance necessary to replicate the truly amazing results. You > really should go to the seminar - they teach you a few new coded > buzzwords and award Diplomate if you're already an MD or DC. Others > get Fellow (LAc's get a certificate). Apologies for joking about a > serious topic. > > joe the doctor sort of > jreidomd.blogspot.com > Not quite as many needles! Pain Management Unit INSERM, Villejuif, France Alimi et al Analgesic Effect of Auricular Acupuncture for Cancer Pain: A Randomized, Blinded, Controlled Trial J of Clin Oncol 2003;21(22):4120-4126 The only high-quality RCT noted in a 2005 systematic review of acupuncture for cancer-related pain. Only ear points are used; Rx is adapted / individualized to each patient. Points are located electronically, then tiny sterile, single-use steel needles are left in-situ for a number of days. Results: `auricular acupuncture at points where an electrodermal signal is detected is associated with a significant reduction in pain intensity in patients with neuropathic pain… reduction in pain is associated with a decline in average electrical signal detected in ear points.' Seems to work for pain other than 'cancer' pain - the auricular points with a strong signal are often sore prior to Rx, and are not once a therapeutic effect has occured. Margi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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