Guest guest Posted September 24, 2008 Report Share Posted September 24, 2008 i would research bell's palsy tx. i got beautiful results recently tx a teenF with acute onset of bells palsy using estim on the mtr and sensory lines of the scalp. if there is no pain, you can just do the mtr line. i did body pts for liv wind and in her case xue xu, + local pts on the face. i used cmx (red with gold lettering, yellow paper cover with photo of bronze acu pt statue) or shang hi (comprehensive text: blue with gold lettering) protocols as a guideline (one of those). worked well. she also took raw herbs for liv wind/facial paralysis. i'ld work with her on the herbs, adding some stop cough herbs or trying different kinds: raw, gran, tinctures to find something she can take. she might have to accept the cough until the condition improves, but you should be able to address that s/e by adding the stop cough herbs to the formula. also, have her munch on gou ji berries. you need to tx 2-3x/week. 2x/month may be why she's not responding. the pattern here is liv wind due to yin/xue xu. xue xu -->xue yu. hope this helps, Chinese Medicine On Tue, Sep 23, 2008 at 6:18 PM, Kathy <Andrameada wrote: > I have a 59 year old female patient with a persistant and strong facial > tic involving her right eye and cheek. The tic also involves > peripheral muscles above and lateral to the eye. The tic gets worse > when she's more tired, but is present all the time, and causes her to > lose sleep. Her western MD was treating her with Botox injections that > froze the muscles and stopped the twitch, but caused uncomfortable > pulling sensations in her cheek. I have treated her twice in a one > month timeframe, and she's had no relief.I use local points (Taiyang, > Wu yao, ashi), and points for wind as well as points to tonify blood > (tonify blood to expel wind theory). > I have given her herbs, but they make her cough for some reason and she > can't take them. Her pulse is thin and wiry, tongue dry and slightly > dusky. > Does anyone have any ideas on treatment for this condition? > Thanks, > Kathy Kerr > L.Ac., Austin, Tx > > > -- Kath Bartlett, LAc, MS, BA UCLA Oriental Medicine Experienced, Dedicated, Effective Flying Dragon Liniment: Effective pain relief for muscles & joints Formulated by Kath Bartlett, Traditional Chinese Herbalist Available at Asheville Center for , or from the following suppliers: Kamwo Herbal Pharmacy: NY - Chinatown https://www.kamwo.com/shop/product.php?productid=17442 & cat=0 & page=1 Golden Needle Acupuncture, Herbal & Medical Supply - Candler, NC http://www.goldenneedleonline.com/index.php?page=categories & category=14 & vendor= & \ product=5554 & pg= Asheville Center For 70 Woodfin Place, Suite West Wing Two Asheville, NC 28801 828.258.2777 kbartlett www.AcupunctureAsheville.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 24, 2008 Report Share Posted September 24, 2008 Thanks for the reply! I thought about Bell's Palsy treatments, but didn't consider scalp needling with Estim. I've been thinking about estim on the face, but as with Bell's Palsy and estim, one could run the risk of transmitting the wind to adjacent channels. I have the same Dx you did, the patient also has red eyes, so I narrowed it to LV blood and some deficient heat. I'll try the scalp estim, though. With the herbs, I'm worried that she has an allergy of some sort. She's from Viet Nam, and doesn't translate well what exactly happened, she just keeps saying " it makes me cough " and clutches her throat. That makes me a bit leery of prescribing more herbs, these last were patents, not very strong. Tinctures and powders would be even stronger, as would raw. I know herbs are vitally important to this, but I think I'll wait a bit and try to get her more comfortable before I precribe another formula. I've upped her treatments to once per week, as well, but financial issues arise with more than that. Thanks again! Kathy Kerr L.Ac., Austin, Tx Chinese Medicine , " Kath Bartlett, MS, LAc " wrote: > > i would research bell's palsy tx. i got beautiful results recently tx a > teenF with acute onset of bells palsy using estim on the mtr and sensory > lines of the scalp. if there is no pain, you can just do the mtr line. i > did body pts for liv wind and in her case xue xu, + local pts on the face. > i used cmx (red with gold lettering, yellow paper cover with photo of bronze > acu pt statue) or shang hi (comprehensive text: blue with gold > lettering) protocols as a guideline (one of those). worked well. she also > took raw herbs for liv wind/facial paralysis. i'ld work with her on the > herbs, adding some stop cough herbs or trying different kinds: raw, gran, > tinctures to find something she can take. she might have to accept the > cough until the condition improves, but you should be able to address that > s/e by adding the stop cough herbs to the formula. also, have her munch on > gou ji berries. you need to tx 2-3x/week. 2x/month may be why she's not > responding. the pattern here is liv wind due to yin/xue xu. xue xu -->xue > yu. > > hope this helps, > > Chinese Medicine > > On Tue, Sep 23, 2008 at 6:18 PM, Kathy <Andrameada wrote: > > > I have a 59 year old female patient with a persistant and strong facial > > tic involving her right eye and cheek. The tic also involves > > peripheral muscles above and lateral to the eye. The tic gets worse > > when she's more tired, but is present all the time, and causes her to > > lose sleep. Her western MD was treating her with Botox injections that > > froze the muscles and stopped the twitch, but caused uncomfortable > > pulling sensations in her cheek. I have treated her twice in a one > > month timeframe, and she's had no relief.I use local points (Taiyang, > > Wu yao, ashi), and points for wind as well as points to tonify blood > > (tonify blood to expel wind theory). > > I have given her herbs, but they make her cough for some reason and she > > can't take them. Her pulse is thin and wiry, tongue dry and slightly > > dusky. > > Does anyone have any ideas on treatment for this condition? > > Thanks, > > Kathy Kerr > > L.Ac., Austin, Tx > > > > > > > > > > -- > Kath Bartlett, LAc, MS, BA UCLA > Oriental Medicine > Experienced, Dedicated, Effective > > Flying Dragon Liniment: > Effective pain relief for muscles & joints > Formulated by Kath Bartlett, Traditional Chinese Herbalist > Available at Asheville Center for , or from the following > suppliers: > > Kamwo Herbal Pharmacy: NY - Chinatown > https://www.kamwo.com/shop/product.php?productid=17442 & cat=0 & page=1 > > Golden Needle Acupuncture, Herbal & Medical Supply - Candler, NC > http://www.goldenneedleonline.com/index.php? page=categories & category=14 & vendor= & product=5554 & pg= > > > > Asheville Center For > 70 Woodfin Place, Suite West Wing Two > Asheville, NC 28801 828.258.2777 > kbartlett > www.AcupunctureAsheville.com > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 24, 2008 Report Share Posted September 24, 2008 Hi Kathy, I wonder how long she has suffered with the facial tic. I would think that if the single treatment did not do it (over a month) that it would be time for a more ongoing treatment plan. GB20 or 21 also TH16 as well as LU7 I would use. Do you consider it a deficiency syndrome with wind rising from the deficiency ? or is there any heat in her body - and or any other symptoms? Is she truly blood deficient? Do you need to bring liver fire down or just regulate Liv and the Qi in the GB meridian..? hard to say without pulse and tongue and or more history....... what was her herbal prescription that made her cough? keep us posted thanks Verena Kathy wrote: > > I have a 59 year old female patient with a persistant and strong facial > tic involving her right eye and cheek. The tic also involves > peripheral muscles above and lateral to the eye. The tic gets worse > when she's more tired, but is present all the time, and causes her to > lose sleep. Her western MD was treating her with Botox injections that > froze the muscles and stopped the twitch, but caused uncomfortable > pulling sensations in her cheek. I have treated her twice in a one > month timeframe, and she's had no relief.I use local points (Taiyang, > Wu yao, ashi), and points for wind as well as points to tonify blood > (tonify blood to expel wind theory). > I have given her herbs, but they make her cough for some reason and she > can't take them. Her pulse is thin and wiry, tongue dry and slightly > dusky. > Does anyone have any ideas on treatment for this condition? > Thanks, > Kathy Kerr > L.Ac., Austin, Tx > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 24, 2008 Report Share Posted September 24, 2008 Use the Balance Method for this condition. Oppossite side several needles around AhShi points LV8, SP9 and Kid10 will take care of all of the meridians involved in Belz, TN, etc, Chinese Medicine , " Kath Bartlett, MS, LAc " wrote: > > i would research bell's palsy tx. i got beautiful results recently tx a > teenF with acute onset of bells palsy using estim on the mtr and sensory > lines of the scalp. if there is no pain, you can just do the mtr line. i > did body pts for liv wind and in her case xue xu, + local pts on the face. > i used cmx (red with gold lettering, yellow paper cover with photo of bronze > acu pt statue) or shang hi (comprehensive text: blue with gold > lettering) protocols as a guideline (one of those). worked well. she also > took raw herbs for liv wind/facial paralysis. i'ld work with her on the > herbs, adding some stop cough herbs or trying different kinds: raw, gran, > tinctures to find something she can take. she might have to accept the > cough until the condition improves, but you should be able to address that > s/e by adding the stop cough herbs to the formula. also, have her munch on > gou ji berries. you need to tx 2-3x/week. 2x/month may be why she's not > responding. the pattern here is liv wind due to yin/xue xu. xue xu -->xue > yu. > > hope this helps, > > Chinese Medicine > > On Tue, Sep 23, 2008 at 6:18 PM, Kathy <Andrameada wrote: > > > I have a 59 year old female patient with a persistant and strong facial > > tic involving her right eye and cheek. The tic also involves > > peripheral muscles above and lateral to the eye. The tic gets worse > > when she's more tired, but is present all the time, and causes her to > > lose sleep. Her western MD was treating her with Botox injections that > > froze the muscles and stopped the twitch, but caused uncomfortable > > pulling sensations in her cheek. I have treated her twice in a one > > month timeframe, and she's had no relief.I use local points (Taiyang, > > Wu yao, ashi), and points for wind as well as points to tonify blood > > (tonify blood to expel wind theory). > > I have given her herbs, but they make her cough for some reason and she > > can't take them. Her pulse is thin and wiry, tongue dry and slightly > > dusky. > > Does anyone have any ideas on treatment for this condition? > > Thanks, > > Kathy Kerr > > L.Ac., Austin, Tx > > > > > > > > > > -- > Kath Bartlett, LAc, MS, BA UCLA > Oriental Medicine > Experienced, Dedicated, Effective > > Flying Dragon Liniment: > Effective pain relief for muscles & joints > Formulated by Kath Bartlett, Traditional Chinese Herbalist > Available at Asheville Center for , or from the following > suppliers: > > Kamwo Herbal Pharmacy: NY - Chinatown > https://www.kamwo.com/shop/product.php?productid=17442 & cat=0 & page=1 > > Golden Needle Acupuncture, Herbal & Medical Supply - Candler, NC > http://www.goldenneedleonline.com/index.php? page=categories & category=14 & vendor= & product=5554 & pg= > > > > Asheville Center For > 70 Woodfin Place, Suite West Wing Two > Asheville, NC 28801 828.258.2777 > kbartlett > www.AcupunctureAsheville.com > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 24, 2008 Report Share Posted September 24, 2008 Verena, She's had the tic for over 10 years; I believe I mentioned tongue was dry and pale/dusky, pulse thin and wiry. I saw her again today, and she also had extremely red eyes today. She doesn't sleep well (wakes a lot), and has night heat; the Dx of LV yin and blood deficiency, LV fire, and wind is the most appropriate, I think. There's definite heat there. I got her on to a once per week system, and tried estim on her motor line today, I'll keep you informed as she progresses. The original formula was Ming Mu Di Huang Wan, patent,8 TID. I'm changing her to a modified powder of Tian Ma Gou Teng Yin, with some added cought herbs to see how that works. I've never had a patient report a cought from herbs before - perhaps it was just the patent form. Thanks, Kathy Chinese Medicine , Verena Smith <verena wrote: > > Hi Kathy, > I wonder how long she has suffered with the facial tic. > I would think that if the single treatment did not do it (over a month) > that it would be time > for a more ongoing treatment plan. > GB20 or 21 also TH16 as well as LU7 I would use. > Do you consider it a deficiency syndrome with wind rising from the > deficiency ? > or is there any heat in her body - and or any other symptoms? > Is she truly blood deficient? > Do you need to bring liver fire down or just regulate Liv > and the Qi in the GB meridian..? > hard to say without pulse and tongue and or more history....... > what was her herbal prescription that made her cough? > keep us posted > thanks > Verena > > > > > > Kathy wrote: > > > > I have a 59 year old female patient with a persistant and strong facial > > tic involving her right eye and cheek. The tic also involves > > peripheral muscles above and lateral to the eye. The tic gets worse > > when she's more tired, but is present all the time, and causes her to > > lose sleep. Her western MD was treating her with Botox injections that > > froze the muscles and stopped the twitch, but caused uncomfortable > > pulling sensations in her cheek. I have treated her twice in a one > > month timeframe, and she's had no relief.I use local points (Taiyang, > > Wu yao, ashi), and points for wind as well as points to tonify blood > > (tonify blood to expel wind theory). > > I have given her herbs, but they make her cough for some reason and she > > can't take them. Her pulse is thin and wiry, tongue dry and slightly > > dusky. > > Does anyone have any ideas on treatment for this condition? > > Thanks, > > Kathy Kerr > > L.Ac., Austin, Tx > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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