Guest guest Posted September 3, 2008 Report Share Posted September 3, 2008 Hi, I am wondering if any of you have had experience with bringing on another practitioner into your established practice and how you set it up. Do you pay per hour, do a percentage or partnership and what would all of these include. I know the 40/60% is popular but would you pay for all supplies, furniture, payroll of secretaries, basically all overhead and still do the 40/60%? I am in a situation where we have a very busy practice in a very high overhead building, we have a huge waiting list so the new practitioner would basically be walking into a job and have insurance providership under my contract. All furniture (massage tables, tdp lamps etc.) are already in pt. rooms and the rooms are designated for the new practitoner. All needles etc. are ready and this person would have their own office. Basically I would take care of all the business stuff. Does anyone have any suggestions on how they would set it up. I've heard people getting into contracts their not happy with and then leave and I wouldn't want that and on the other hand I've built the business from the bottom up 8 yrs. ago and want it to be profitable for me as well. Any ideas are appreciated. Thanks, Maureen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 11, 2008 Report Share Posted September 11, 2008 Dear Maureen, I have had quite a bit of experience in bringing in another acupuncturist into my busy, thriving practice of 19 years where the new L.Ac. literally walked into a practice with new patients waiting and a fully equipped and staffed office, with me providing everything from needles to experienced billing clerk to the latest paperless software. My first time, I just charged a flat rent. Although very straight forward and simple, it didn't work out in the long run as my costs went up and the L.Ac. didn't appreciate what was handed to them. Next I hired an L.Ac. as an employee and paid them 40% of collections. This also didn't work out as it didn't compensate me for providing all the new patients and all the raw materials to run the practice. My overhead was running about 55% of collections, so I was profiting about 5% on my associate, which barely compensated me for the time spent managing that employee. And, the L.Ac. felt like they should get more since they were providing the service (again, unless one has prior business experience, the cost of overhead and management process is rarely appreciated.) I am now on my third associate, and she has been with me 4 years and we have developed a system that is working well for both of us. It's complicated, but fair for all. She is an employee, so although by law I pay unemployement, TDI, and health insurance ($320/month)for her, I also get to specify her hours, vacation time and terms of employment and termination of employment. In addition to her base salary, she is paid 35% of collections after a set amount (in our case she works 20 hours per week for $1000 salary + benefits + 35% of collections over $3500 per month and 50% for collections over $7000.) So, if her collections are $8000 for the month, she gets employee benefits + $1000 salary + 35% of $3500 (7K-$3500 cap) and 50% of $1000 (the amount above $7K) for a total of $1000 + $1225 + $500 = $2725 + benefits for half time work. If her collections are just $3800 in a month, then her pay is salary of $1000 + 35% of $300. Collections for herbs are calculated separately, she is given 35% of collections on herbs sold. I hope this helps! Joni > Hi, I am wondering if any of you have had experience with bringing > on another practitioner into your established practice and how you > set it up. Do you pay per hour, do a percentage or partnership and > what would all of these include. I know the 40/60% is popular but > would you pay for all supplies, furniture, payroll of secretaries, > basically all overhead and still do the 40/60%? I am in a situation > where we have a very busy practice in a very high overhead building, > we have a huge waiting list so the new practitioner would basically > be walking into a job and have insurance providership under my > contract. All furniture (massage tables, tdp lamps etc.) are > already in pt. rooms and the rooms are designated for the new > practitoner. All needles etc. are ready and this person would have > their own office. Basically I would take care of all the business > stuff. Does anyone have any suggestions on how they would set it > up. I've heard people getting into contracts their not happy with > and then leave and I wouldn't want that and on the other hand I've > built the business from the bottom up 8 yrs. ago and want it to be > profitable for me as well. Any ideas are appreciated. > > Thanks, > Maureen > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 11, 2008 Report Share Posted September 11, 2008 Joni, What a great business analysis. I use to teach business classes, but it is a challenge to translate that into a small business model that is also a healing business. Just a question: Why did you choose the employee option over the independent contractor? I love the increase in percentage with more clients/collections - that way the practitioner is motivated to bring people in, rather than you having to do that 24/7. Anne -- Anne C. Crowley, L.Ac., M.Ac., Dipl.Ac. www.SouthernMDacupuncture.com -------------- Original message ---------------------- " Joni Kroll, D.Ac. " <acujoni > Dear Maureen, > I have had quite a bit of experience in bringing in another > acupuncturist into my busy, thriving practice of 19 years where the > new L.Ac. literally walked into a practice with new patients waiting > and a fully equipped and staffed office, with me providing everything > from needles to experienced billing clerk to the latest paperless > software. > > My first time, I just charged a flat rent. Although very straight > forward and simple, it didn't work out in the long run as my costs > went up and the L.Ac. didn't appreciate what was handed to them. > > Next I hired an L.Ac. as an employee and paid them 40% of > collections. This also didn't work out as it didn't compensate me > for providing all the new patients and all the raw materials to run > the practice. My overhead was running about 55% of collections, so I > was profiting about 5% on my associate, which barely compensated me > for the time spent managing that employee. And, the L.Ac. felt like > they should get more since they were providing the service (again, > unless one has prior business experience, the cost of overhead and > management process is rarely appreciated.) > > I am now on my third associate, and she has been with me 4 years and > we have developed a system that is working well for both of us. It's > complicated, but fair for all. She is an employee, so although by law > I pay unemployement, TDI, and health insurance ($320/month)for her, I > also get to specify her hours, vacation time and terms of employment > and termination of employment. In addition to her base salary, she > is paid 35% of collections after a set amount (in our case she works > 20 hours per week for $1000 salary + benefits + 35% of collections > over $3500 per month and 50% for collections over $7000.) So, if her > collections are $8000 for the month, she gets employee benefits + > $1000 salary + 35% of $3500 (7K-$3500 cap) and 50% of $1000 (the > amount above $7K) for a total of $1000 + $1225 + $500 = $2725 + > benefits for half time work. If her collections are just $3800 in a > month, then her pay is salary of $1000 + 35% of $300. Collections > for herbs are calculated separately, she is given 35% of collections > on herbs sold. > > I hope this helps! > Joni > > > > > Hi, I am wondering if any of you have had experience with bringing > > on another practitioner into your established practice and how you > > set it up. Do you pay per hour, do a percentage or partnership and > > what would all of these include. I know the 40/60% is popular but > > would you pay for all supplies, furniture, payroll of secretaries, > > basically all overhead and still do the 40/60%? I am in a > situation > > where we have a very busy practice in a very high overhead > building, > > we have a huge waiting list so the new practitioner would basically > > be walking into a job and have insurance providership under my > > contract. All furniture (massage tables, tdp lamps etc.) are > > already in pt. rooms and the rooms are designated for the new > > practitoner. All needles etc. are ready and this person would have > > their own office. Basically I would take care of all the business > > stuff. Does anyone have any suggestions on how they would set it > > up. I've heard people getting into contracts their not happy with > > and then leave and I wouldn't want that and on the other hand I've > > built the business from the bottom up 8 yrs. ago and want it to be > > profitable for me as well. Any ideas are appreciated. > > > > Thanks, > > Maureen > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 12, 2008 Report Share Posted September 12, 2008 Anne, I chose employee option because I needed to dictate the specifc hours I wanted my associate in the clinic. In our state (Hawaii), one of the definitions of independent contractor versus employee is if the hours are specified, in otherwords an independent contractor is free to work whenever they choose and an employee is not. Another thing I've learned is to specify in the contract that all patients and patient files are clinic patients, not " belonging " to any one practitioner. Thus, should the associate leave, there is no issue about compensation for his or her patient files. Of course, patients are always free to follow the practioner to a new location, but should they stay, no compensation is expected. Joni > > Joni, > > What a great business analysis. I use to teach business classes, but it is a challenge to translate that into a small business model that is also a healing business. > > Just a question: Why did you choose the employee option over the independent contractor? I love the increase in percentage with more clients/collections - that way the practitioner is motivated to bring people in, rather than you having to do that 24/7. > > Anne > > > -- > Anne C. Crowley, L.Ac., M.Ac., Dipl.Ac. > > www.SouthernMDacupuncture.com > > -------------- Original message ---------------------- > " Joni Kroll, D.Ac. " <acujoni > > Dear Maureen, > > I have had quite a bit of experience in bringing in another > > acupuncturist into my busy, thriving practice of 19 years where the > > new L.Ac. literally walked into a practice with new patients waiting > > and a fully equipped and staffed office, with me providing everything > > from needles to experienced billing clerk to the latest paperless > > software. > > > > My first time, I just charged a flat rent. Although very straight > > forward and simple, it didn't work out in the long run as my costs > > went up and the L.Ac. didn't appreciate what was handed to them. > > > > Next I hired an L.Ac. as an employee and paid them 40% of > > collections. This also didn't work out as it didn't compensate me > > for providing all the new patients and all the raw materials to run > > the practice. My overhead was running about 55% of collections, so I > > was profiting about 5% on my associate, which barely compensated me > > for the time spent managing that employee. And, the L.Ac. felt like > > they should get more since they were providing the service (again, > > unless one has prior business experience, the cost of overhead and > > management process is rarely appreciated.) > > > > I am now on my third associate, and she has been with me 4 years and > > we have developed a system that is working well for both of us. It's > > complicated, but fair for all. She is an employee, so although by law > > I pay unemployement, TDI, and health insurance ($320/month)for her, I > > also get to specify her hours, vacation time and terms of employment > > and termination of employment. In addition to her base salary, she > > is paid 35% of collections after a set amount (in our case she works > > 20 hours per week for $1000 salary + benefits + 35% of collections > > over $3500 per month and 50% for collections over $7000.) So, if her > > collections are $8000 for the month, she gets employee benefits + > > $1000 salary + 35% of $3500 (7K-$3500 cap) and 50% of $1000 (the > > amount above $7K) for a total of $1000 + $1225 + $500 = $2725 + > > benefits for half time work. If her collections are just $3800 in a > > month, then her pay is salary of $1000 + 35% of $300. Collections > > for herbs are calculated separately, she is given 35% of collections > > on herbs sold. > > > > I hope this helps! > > Joni > > > > > > > > > Hi, I am wondering if any of you have had experience with bringing > > > on another practitioner into your established practice and how you > > > set it up. Do you pay per hour, do a percentage or partnership and > > > what would all of these include. I know the 40/60% is popular but > > > would you pay for all supplies, furniture, payroll of secretaries, > > > basically all overhead and still do the 40/60%? I am in a > > situation > > > where we have a very busy practice in a very high overhead > > building, > > > we have a huge waiting list so the new practitioner would basically > > > be walking into a job and have insurance providership under my > > > contract. All furniture (massage tables, tdp lamps etc.) are > > > already in pt. rooms and the rooms are designated for the new > > > practitoner. All needles etc. are ready and this person would have > > > their own office. Basically I would take care of all the business > > > stuff. Does anyone have any suggestions on how they would set it > > > up. I've heard people getting into contracts their not happy with > > > and then leave and I wouldn't want that and on the other hand I've > > > built the business from the bottom up 8 yrs. ago and want it to be > > > profitable for me as well. Any ideas are appreciated. > > > > > > Thanks, > > > Maureen > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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