Guest guest Posted September 9, 2008 Report Share Posted September 9, 2008 Chris and Jason, Sheng Ban Xia is warm, acrid and toxic. It is the processing that neutralizes it's toxicity. It is processed in a couple of ways: First it is soaked and rinced in water. Then, it depends: Jiang Ban Xia is then cooked with ginger and alum and then dried. It is better at treating stomach cold, manifested as nausea and vomiting. Fa Ban Xia is soaked with Gan Cao and lime. It is dried and then crushed. It treats MJ dampness and strengthening the Speen and Stomach. --- On Tue, 9/9/08, < wrote: < Re: Re: an observation concerning phlegm vs. pathogenic fluids Chinese Medicine Tuesday, September 9, 2008, 12:41 AM jasonwcom wrote: >If ban xia is non-toxic why is it always listed as TOXIC? > Did someone here yet make the distinction between 'ban xia' and 'so fa' (sorry, i know it only by Canonese), which is the raw nuts, white powdery. These. I hear, are distinctly toxic (alcoloid), but are very useful substitute for 'ban xia', in smaller quantities, vs virulent respiratory (respiratory) . 'ban xia', we all know, is fried in ginger (and something else, honey?), and, in dosage amounts (3-6gr) not really poisonous. chris macid Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 10, 2008 Report Share Posted September 10, 2008 Processing just changes it from very toxic to less toxic, same with processing of fu zi, if practitioners prescribe herbs like ban xia and fu zi indiscriminately they will hurt people, these herbs are listed as toxic for a reason and that should read like a bright red CAUTION sign... Chinese Medicine , yehuda frischman < wrote: > > Chris and Jason, > > Sheng Ban Xia is warm, acrid and toxic. It is the processing that neutralizes it's toxicity. It is processed in a couple of ways: First it is soaked and rinced in water. Then, it depends: Jiang Ban Xia is then cooked with ginger and alum and then dried. It is better at treating stomach cold, manifested as nausea and vomiting. Fa Ban Xia is soaked with Gan Cao and lime. It is dried and then crushed. It treats MJ dampness and strengthening the Speen and Stomach. > > > > > > > --- On Tue, 9/9/08, < wrote: > > < > Re: Re: an observation concerning phlegm vs. pathogenic fluids > Chinese Medicine > Tuesday, September 9, 2008, 12:41 AM jasonwcom wrote: > > >If ban xia is non-toxic why is it always listed as TOXIC? > > > Did someone here yet make the distinction between 'ban xia' and 'so fa' > (sorry, i know it only by Canonese), which is the raw nuts, white > powdery. These. I hear, are distinctly toxic (alcoloid), but are very > useful substitute for 'ban xia', in smaller quantities, vs virulent > respiratory (respiratory) . > > 'ban xia', we all know, is fried in ginger (and something else, honey?), > and, in dosage amounts (3-6gr) not really poisonous. > > chris macid > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 10, 2008 Report Share Posted September 10, 2008 The litmus test is just to put one piece of jiang or fa ban xia on your tongue. Most likely it will start tingling, even though it is processed. You will feel very thirsty in a few minutes and may even get a sore throat. It's very drying and the taste test proves it. Do you know if there's a bit of ephedrine in the ban xia, even after processing? K. On Wed, Sep 10, 2008 at 11:55 AM, jasonwcom <jasonwcom wrote: > Processing just changes it from very toxic to less toxic, same with > processing of fu zi, if practitioners prescribe herbs like ban xia and > fu zi indiscriminately they will hurt people, these herbs are listed > as toxic for a reason and that should read like a bright red CAUTION > sign... > > --- In Chinese Medicine <Chinese Medicine%40yaho\ ogroups.com>, > yehuda frischman > < wrote: > > > > Chris and Jason, > > > > Sheng Ban Xia is warm, acrid and toxic. It is the processing > that neutralizes it's toxicity. It is processed in a couple > of ways: First it is soaked and rinced in water. Then, it depends: > Jiang Ban Xia is then cooked with ginger and alum and then dried. It > is better at treating stomach cold, manifested as nausea and > vomiting. Fa Ban Xia is soaked with Gan Cao and lime. It is dried > and then crushed. It treats MJ dampness and strengthening the Speen > and Stomach. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- On Tue, 9/9/08, < wrote: > > > > < > > Re: Re: an observation concerning phlegm vs. > pathogenic fluids > > To: Chinese Medicine <Chinese Medicine%40yaho\ ogroups.com> > > Tuesday, September 9, 2008, 12:41 AM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > jasonwcom wrote: > > > > >If ban xia is non-toxic why is it always listed as TOXIC? > > > > > Did someone here yet make the distinction between 'ban xia' and 'so fa' > > (sorry, i know it only by Canonese), which is the raw nuts, white > > powdery. These. I hear, are distinctly toxic (alcoloid), but are very > > useful substitute for 'ban xia', in smaller quantities, vs virulent > > respiratory (respiratory) . > > > > 'ban xia', we all know, is fried in ginger (and something else, > honey?), > > and, in dosage amounts (3-6gr) not really poisonous. > > > > chris macid > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 20, 2008 Report Share Posted September 20, 2008 Dear Colleagues, Sorry for the delayed response. We are in the throes of preparing for our annual trip to Israel. (We will be gone for 6 weeks. BTW, those needing to contact me should call my son at 97239363793 or 972527662543). I think that this discussion brings up a very important point: IMO, it is absolutely wrong to think of an herb as either safe or toxic. The fact is that the safest natural substances when they are abused can become toxic. But rather the issue is that as practitioners, we need to use these marvelous gifts as they are medically indicated. If we determine the appropriate differential diagnosis, take a proper medical history, educate ourselves as to the side effects and contraindications, and then apply the herb as part of a formula using other herbs to mitigate, when necessary, that herb's side effects, then so called " toxic " herbs such as Ban Xia, Fu Zi, Ma Huang, or even Mu Tong, can be health giving and even live saving. I am reminded of the story of my cousin, a woman in her 40s who was clearly Yin vacuous, and who asked me (this was a good 7-8 years ago) if I could get her some Ma Huang to help her lose weight. I asked her why in the world would she want to use Ma Huang for that purpose? She answered that her acupuncturist (a guy who know nothing about herbs and had received his license in the 80s, then not even having to study herbs only acupuncture!) had recommended it to her! I begged her to not use it for that purpose, and told her that used wrongly it could be life threatening. Two week later, we all read how Baltimore Orioles pitcher Steve Bechler died from a heart attack after taking Ma Huang, to enhance his athletic performance. Happy Jewish New Year everyone! --- On Wed, 9/10/08, <johnkokko wrote: <johnkokko Re: Re: Ban Xia toxicity Chinese Medicine Wednesday, September 10, 2008, 3:24 PM The litmus test is just to put one piece of jiang or fa ban xia on your tongue. Most likely it will start tingling, even though it is processed. You will feel very thirsty in a few minutes and may even get a sore throat. It's very drying and the taste test proves it. Do you know if there's a bit of ephedrine in the ban xia, even after processing? K. On Wed, Sep 10, 2008 at 11:55 AM, jasonwcom <jasonwcom > wrote: > Processing just changes it from very toxic to less toxic, same with > processing of fu zi, if practitioners prescribe herbs like ban xia and > fu zi indiscriminately they will hurt people, these herbs are listed > as toxic for a reason and that should read like a bright red CAUTION > sign... > > Traditional_ Chinese_Medicine <Traditional_ Chinese_Medicine %40. com>, > yehuda frischman > <@.. .> wrote: > > > > Chris and Jason, > > > > Sheng Ban Xia is warm, acrid and toxic. It is the processing > that neutralizes it's toxicity. It is processed in a couple > of ways: First it is soaked and rinced in water. Then, it depends: > Jiang Ban Xia is then cooked with ginger and alum and then dried. It > is better at treating stomach cold, manifested as nausea and > vomiting. Fa Ban Xia is soaked with Gan Cao and lime. It is dried > and then crushed. It treats MJ dampness and strengthening the Speen > and Stomach. > > > > > > > > www.traditionaljewi shmedicine. net > > > > > > --- On Tue, 9/9/08, wrote: > > > > > > Re: Re: an observation concerning phlegm vs. > pathogenic fluids > > <Traditional_ Chinese_Medicine %40. com> > > Tuesday, September 9, 2008, 12:41 AM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > jasonwcom wrote: > > > > >If ban xia is non-toxic why is it always listed as TOXIC? > > > > > Did someone here yet make the distinction between 'ban xia' and 'so fa' > > (sorry, i know it only by Canonese), which is the raw nuts, white > > powdery. These. I hear, are distinctly toxic (alcoloid), but are very > > useful substitute for 'ban xia', in smaller quantities, vs virulent > > respiratory (respiratory) . > > > > 'ban xia', we all know, is fried in ginger (and something else, > honey?), > > and, in dosage amounts (3-6gr) not really poisonous. > > > > chris macid > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 21, 2008 Report Share Posted September 21, 2008 Dear Colleagues, Sorry for the delayed response. We are in the throes of preparing for our annual trip to Israel. (We will be gone for 6 weeks. BTW, those needing to contact me should call my son at 97239363793 or 972527662543). I think that this discussion brings up a very important point: IMO, it is absolutely wrong to think of an herb as either safe or toxic. The fact is that the safest natural substances when they are abused can become toxic. But rather the issue is that as practitioners, we need to use these marvelous gifts as they are medically indicated. If we determine the appropriate differential diagnosis, take a proper medical history, educate ourselves as to the side effects and contraindications, and then apply the herb as part of a formula using other herbs to mitigate, when necessary, that herb's side effects, then so called " toxic " herbs such as Ban Xia, Fu Zi, Ma Huang, or even Mu Tong, can be health giving and even live saving. I am reminded of the story of my cousin, a woman in her 40s who was clearly Yin vacuous, and who asked me (this was a good 7-8 years ago) if I could get her some Ma Huang to help her lose weight. I asked her why in the world would she want to use Ma Huang for that purpose? She answered that her acupuncturist (a guy who know nothing about herbs and had received his license in the 80s, then not even having to study herbs only acupuncture!) had recommended it to her! I begged her to not use it for that purpose, and told her that used wrongly it could be life threatening. Two week later, we all read how Baltimore Orioles pitcher Steve Bechler died from a heart attack after taking Ma Huang, to enhance his athletic performance. Happy Jewish New Year everyone! --- On Wed, 9/10/08, <johnkokko wrote: <johnkokko Re: Re: Ban Xia toxicity Chinese Medicine Wednesday, September 10, 2008, 3:24 PM The litmus test is just to put one piece of jiang or fa ban xia on your tongue. Most likely it will start tingling, even though it is processed. You will feel very thirsty in a few minutes and may even get a sore throat. It's very drying and the taste test proves it. Do you know if there's a bit of ephedrine in the ban xia, even after processing? K. On Wed, Sep 10, 2008 at 11:55 AM, jasonwcom <jasonwcom > wrote: > Processing just changes it from very toxic to less toxic, same with > processing of fu zi, if practitioners prescribe herbs like ban xia and > fu zi indiscriminately they will hurt people, these herbs are listed > as toxic for a reason and that should read like a bright red CAUTION > sign... > > Traditional_ Chinese_Medicine <Traditional_ Chinese_Medicine %40. com>, > yehuda frischman > <@.. .> wrote: > > > > Chris and Jason, > > > > Sheng Ban Xia is warm, acrid and toxic. It is the processing > that neutralizes it's toxicity. It is processed in a couple > of ways: First it is soaked and rinced in water. Then, it depends: > Jiang Ban Xia is then cooked with ginger and alum and then dried. It > is better at treating stomach cold, manifested as nausea and > vomiting. Fa Ban Xia is soaked with Gan Cao and lime. It is dried > and then crushed. It treats MJ dampness and strengthening the Speen > and Stomach. > > > > > > > > www.traditionaljewi shmedicine. net > > > > > > --- On Tue, 9/9/08, wrote: > > > > > > Re: Re: an observation concerning phlegm vs. > pathogenic fluids > > <Traditional_ Chinese_Medicine %40. com> > > Tuesday, September 9, 2008, 12:41 AM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > jasonwcom wrote: > > > > >If ban xia is non-toxic why is it always listed as TOXIC? > > > > > Did someone here yet make the distinction between 'ban xia' and 'so fa' > > (sorry, i know it only by Canonese), which is the raw nuts, white > > powdery. These. I hear, are distinctly toxic (alcoloid), but are very > > useful substitute for 'ban xia', in smaller quantities, vs virulent > > respiratory (respiratory) . > > > > 'ban xia', we all know, is fried in ginger (and something else, > honey?), > > and, in dosage amounts (3-6gr) not really poisonous. > > > > chris macid > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 21, 2008 Report Share Posted September 21, 2008 Here is an article that discusses the minute ephedrine content in northern Ban Xia: http://www.itmonline.org/arts/ephpin.htm - Bill > The litmus test is just to put one piece of jiang or fa ban xia on your > tongue. > Most likely it will start tingling, even though it is processed. > You will feel very thirsty in a few minutes and may even get a sore throat. > > It's very drying and the taste test proves it. > Do you know if there's a bit of ephedrine in the ban xia, even after > processing? > > K. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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