Must one work on Trigger Points directly?

[Guest guest]

Alon and All,

 

Is there a consensus among experienced practitioners specializing in

musculoskeletal pain that local needling usually gets the best

results?..Though there are exceptions of course.

 

I have really been happy with the results using

A.Marcus/M,Seem/M.Callison type treatments and have recently looked

into Tan/Tung styles. It seems some patients respond to local and some

distal..any thoughts on this?

 

Regards,

David Vitello

 

 

 

 

 

Chinese Medicine , alon marcus

<alonmarcus wrote:

>

> Hi Phil

> All the statements i made before apply to " myofascial triggers " via

> travell. I do agree that at times using direct treatment to these give

> good result if no other pathology exists. These are usually do to

> simple strain or short over use. I do not agree that one gets great

> results if the condition is more chronic and secondary, there are

> always exceptions like with anything. As far as triggers getting a

> life of their own, yes i agree, but again good results is not the rule

> unless the primary problem is addressed. Also, for the most part i

> agree with you that direct needling works better than distal

> acupuncture, but not always. I have seen TP disappear with Japanese

> type therapies, but again not the rule. What is see all the time is TP

> not disappearing with repeated local needling and/or injection, they

> improve but come back quite often, again if primary cause is not

> addressed. As far as referral patterns there is some information in my

> book, but just look at travell maps and sinew channels, there are many

> overlaps

>

>

>

> 400 29th St. Suite 419

> Oakland Ca 94609

>

>

>

> alonmarcus@wan

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

I do not believe there is consensus regarding any treatment of

musculoskeletal disorders including trigger points. My experience is

that in chronic cases were one can clearly find myofascial trigger

points local treatment is much more likely to a result that lasts a

little longer, and if the patient is willing to do rehab the results

are quite good. If the condition is primarily myofascial (from a

trigger point which is not the majority of cases) a local treatment of

the trigger works much much better. That said local treatment can also

aggravate pain and sometimes with no benefit. My experience with Tung/

Tong acupuncture is that it is very unlikely to give long lasting

results in chronic musculoskeletal pain and almost always requires

lots of treatments.

 

 

 

400 29th St. Suite 419

Oakland Ca 94609

 

 

 

alonmarcus

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Hi Alon, & All,

 

Alon, many thanks for your useful comments, adapted below.

 

For me, this (especially your) discussion reinforces the fundamental

therapeutic TCM concept: ALWAYS try to find and address the Root

Cause when treating TPs [which usually are secondary to a Root

Cause], viz, treat Ben & Biao [Root & Branch].

 

As I am weak [know little] on the Sinew Channels, I defer to your

experiences on them and on their relationships with referred areas

from TPs.

 

Best regards,

 

 

>>>>>>>>>>>>

 

Adapted from Alon Marcus, Tue Sep 2, 2008 :

 

Hi Phil, All my previous statements apply to Travell's " myofascial

TPs " .

 

I agree that direct treatment of TPs sometimes gives good result if

no other pathology exists. These usually are due to simple strain or

short overuse.

 

I do not agree that one gets great results if the condition is more

chronic and secondary, but there are exceptions.

 

I agree that TPs get a life of their own, but again good results are

not the rule unless the primary problem is addressed.

 

I agree also that direct needling works better than distal AP for the

most part but not always. I have seen TPs disappear with Japanese

type therapies, but again this is not the rule.

 

I see constantly that TPs do NOT disappear with repeated local AP

and/or injection. They improve but often recur if the primary cause

is not addressed.

 

My book has some information as regards referral patterns. Also, one

can see many overlaps if one compares the Travell maps and Sinew

Channels.

 

>>>>>>>>>>>>

[Guest guest]

Alon, Phil and others,

 

When you stress treating the root, are you talking about

TCM/constitutional txs or structural/postural/etc, or both?

 

Thanks,

dave vitello

 

 

Chinese Medicine , " "

< wrote:

>

> Hi Alon, & All,

>

> Alon, many thanks for your useful comments, adapted below.

>

> For me, this (especially your) discussion reinforces the

fundamental

> therapeutic TCM concept: ALWAYS try to find and address the Root

> Cause when treating TPs [which usually are secondary to a Root

> Cause], viz, treat Ben & Biao [Root & Branch].

>

> As I am weak [know little] on the Sinew Channels, I defer to your

> experiences on them and on their relationships with referred areas

> from TPs.

>

> Best regards,

>

>

> >>>>>>>>>>>>

>

> Adapted from Alon Marcus, Tue Sep 2, 2008 :

>

> Hi Phil, All my previous statements apply to Travell's " myofascial

> TPs " .

>

> I agree that direct treatment of TPs sometimes gives good result

if

> no other pathology exists. These usually are due to simple strain

or

> short overuse.

>

> I do not agree that one gets great results if the condition is

more

> chronic and secondary, but there are exceptions.

>

> I agree that TPs get a life of their own, but again good results

are

> not the rule unless the primary problem is addressed.

>

> I agree also that direct needling works better than distal AP for

the

> most part but not always. I have seen TPs disappear with Japanese

> type therapies, but again this is not the rule.

>

> I see constantly that TPs do NOT disappear with repeated local AP

> and/or injection. They improve but often recur if the primary

cause

> is not addressed.

>

> My book has some information as regards referral patterns. Also,

one

> can see many overlaps if one compares the Travell maps and Sinew

> Channels.

>

> >>>>>>>>>>>>

>

[Guest guest]

I am not talking about TCM, i am talking about other deeper pathology

eg ligamentous laxity, muscle weakness from under use, discogenic

problems, posture, joint dysfunction, facilitated neuromuscular

disorders, etc.

 

 

 

400 29th St. Suite 419

Oakland Ca 94609

 

 

 

alonmarcus