Follow up questions on Gou Qi Zi juice-GoChi : Enzyme loss with Pasteurization

[Guest guest]

Yehuda,

 

Thanks for bringing that up... Flash pasteurization is HEAT (70 degrees

celsius) pasteurization,

which denatures (deactivates) crucial enzymes which make the Gou qi zi

traditionally effective.

An example of a Gou qi zi enzyme are cerebrosides:

which " was shown to protect liver cells from a toxic dry-cleaning chemical

better than the well-known liver protectant milk thistle "

http://www.smart-publications.com/overall_health/goji_berry.php

 

This is also a good reason to not decoct the berry (heat deactivation of

enzymes), but just to chew it.

 

This is a disadvantage of the juices that you get at the store or through a

MLM group.

Better just to make a smoothie at home with the whole fruit (dried or not).

 

Usually when the herbs are dried by traditional methods via farmers/herb

salers, they are dried at lower heats (below pasteurization levels) or in

the sun (below 70 degrees celsius = 158 degrees fahrenheit)

The regulatory flash pasteurization by the Go-Chi company neutralizes their

fresh picked puree process, in relation to enzymes,

which are a crucial component to the Gou Qi zi's legendary powers.

Furthermore, when the product sits on the shelf (unfrozen) for weeks to

months, the antioxidant load also decreases.

 

K.

 

 

 

 

 

 

On Mon, Aug 25, 2008 at 1:02 AM, wrote:

 

> Hi Kokko,

>

> The point of the study was that drying significantly lowers the

> berry anthocyanin content. Now you are contending that it is a stretch to

> apply the fresh standards to Go Chi, which is essentially pureed and then

> flash pasteurized. We will wait for the studies to be published, but my

> point was that assuming that their process is able to sustain the benefit of

> the fresh fruit, then it would be significantly more beneficial than dried

> Gou Qi Zi.

>

> We'll see!

>

>

>

>

>

>

> --- On Fri, 8/22/08, <johnkokko<johnkokko%40gmail.com>>

> wrote:

>

> <johnkokko <johnkokko%40gmail.com>>

> Re: Follow up questions on Gou Qi Zi juice-GoChi

> To:

Chinese Medicine <Chinese Medicine%40yaho\

ogroups.com>

> Friday, August 22, 2008, 5:03 PM

>

> Yehuda,

>

> Thanks for the pubmed study and am excited to see the forthcoming studies.

> Of course, any company would only publish results which would support the

> sale of their own product,

> so hopefully we can see the entire results, irrespective of the outcome, in

> the name of science.

>

> If we go by content as the basis of our evaluation of the Go-chi

> product,

> The " Change of Total Anthocyanins in Blueberries and Their Antioxidant

> Effect After Drying and Freezing " study that you linked for us

> had these results:

>

> * " Table 1*

>

> Anthocyanin content in evaluated samples.

> Blueberry samplesTotal anthocyaninsmg/ g dry matter

> ------------ --------- ---------

> Fresh blueberries (FR0)7.2 ± 0.5a**Fresh blueberries 2-week5.7 ±

> 0.5abstorage

> at 5°C (FR2)Untreated dried (UN)4.3 ± 0.1bcPretreated dried (PT)3.7 ±

> 0.2cStored

> frozen for 1 month (FZ1M)8.1 ± 0.1aStored frozen for 3 months (FZ3M)7.9 ±

> 1.3a "

>

> Which one of these would the Go-chi product fall under? Once the product is

> put on the shelf even after initial freezing, the anthocyanin level falls

> to

> levels of those of " Untreated Dried " .

> 5.7 +/- .5 (if stored at 5 degrees celsius, which I don't believe the

> Go-chi product is consistently stored at, because of transportation,

> distribution to customers via vendors via outlets and storage) vs. 4.3 +/-

> .1 (if untreated and dried)

> This anthocyanin content difference is not significant.

> When the product becomes unfrozen and goes on the shelf for weeks to

> months,

> the anythocyanin level will drop to levels below that of 5.7 +/- .5

> (according to the decreasing trend).

>

> This study was also ex vivo. But from the results, we can see that a

> product which is not kept consistently frozen, does not have any

> significant

> increase in anthocyanins than a product which is untreated and dried (ie.

> organic dried gou qi zi).

>

> So, for now, I'll stick to the dried gou qi zi.

> If you can find some fresh-frozen gou qi zi berries, that's another story.

>

> Respectfully,

> K.

>

> On Thu, Aug 21, 2008 at 10:47 AM, wrote:

>

> > Dear Kokko,

> >

> > Studies do show that drying decreases anthocyanin content in fruit.

> > See:(http://www.pubmedce ntral.nih. gov/articlerende r.fcgi?artid=

> 1082901

>

> > And again the problem I have with ORAC scoring is that it just measures

> in

> > vitro, not in vivo. The amount of grape and pomegranate juice added to Go

> > Chi IMO is statistically insignificant (3%) and is added to enhance

> flavor.

> > Of course, this could present a problem to someone hypersensitive

> > to pomegranates and/or grapes (I have two such patients!)

> >

> > Your concerns, I think, are one of the reasons that Freelife has

> conducted

> > other clinical studies, and I await the published results of the two

> > additional studies submitted to peer-review journals which should be out

> > before the end of the year which I referred to earlier: The immune study

> > testing and comparing the significant difference of three markers in vivo

> :

> > lymphocytes, IL-2 and IgG, and the antioxidant study testing and

> comparing,

> > again, in vivo levels of SOD, GSH-Px and MDA.

> >

> > Concerning the cost, they claim that the costs involved in their

> production

> > are " higher than any other, as we are the only company that is using

> fresh

> > berries and not dried. The logistics of transporting and quickly

> processing

> > our berries in rural northern China are daunting.... " That doesn't seem

> > unreasonable to me, assuming that what they are claiming is true. It is

> > also telling, I think, that they are investing a significant amount of

> > their budget to research and development in order to support their claims

> > scientifically. I think that this also is unique for companies hawking a

> > product.

> >

> > Again, the two additional studies have been presented and will be

> published

> > shortly, apparently. They say that other studies are forthcoming.

> >

> > As always, I appreciate your insightful questions and desire to reinforce

> > scientific validation of our wonderful medicine.

> >

> > All the best,

> >

> >

> > Yehuda

> >

> >

> > Yehuda,

> > Thanks for relaying this info to the group.

> > I'm not convinced that the fresh puree that has been reconstituted,

> > bottled,

> > shipped and sitting on a non-refrigerated shelf is going to have more

> > nutritional value than the dried fruit that can be eaten whole or

> decocted

> > immediately be a patient or practitioner.

> > There was a clinical study done to compare the " Antioxidant capacity and

> > phenolic content of grapes, sun-dried raisins, and golden raisins and

> their

> > effect on ex vivo serum antioxidant capacity. "

> >

> > " The objectives of this study were to compare the antioxidant capacity

> and

> > phenolic content of green Thompson seedless grapes (the most common

> variety

> > of grapes consumed in the United States), sun-dried raisins, and golden

> > raisins (both produced from Thompson seedless grapes) and to observe the

> > effects of their consumption over 4 weeks in 15 healthy human males with

> a

> > cross-over design. The oxygen radical absorbance capacity (ORAC)

> (positive

> > statistical significance for grapes after 2 weeks and golden raisins

> after

> > 3

> > weeks), serum oxidation (positive statistical significance for golden

> > raisin

> > lag time after 4 weeks), total phenolics (no significant effects), and

> > C-reactive protein (no significant effects) were monitored. "

> >

> > *The conclusions from the study were that, " Golden raisins had the

> highest

> > antioxidant capacity and phenolic content. " *

> > http://cat.inist. fr/?aModele= afficheN & cpsidt=19186324

> >

> > So, more clinical research needs to be done to be convincing that the

> > Go-chi

> > juice is more beneficial than the traditional dried berries, especially

> for

> > the price differential.

> > If raisins have similar or even higher antioxidant profiles than the

> fresh

> > grapes from which they were derived, why pay 10 times more for the same

> > stuff in a bottle? (Since these fresh gou qi zi vs dried gou qi zi

> studies

> > have not been published, how can we truly know other than make

> > speculations,

> > as the Go-chi juice sales representative has done)

> >

> > Also, since grape and pomegranate juice are added to the puree for the

> > Go-chi juice,

> > doesn't that skew the results for the studies, since it has been long

> > verified that grape and pomegranate juices are among the highest ORAC

> > scored

> > foods? That doesn't give credence to " Go-chi " juice, but the power of

> > grape and pomegranate juices mixed with Gou qi zi (which has already been

> > validated by traditional use).

> >

> > What if I chewed dried gou qi zi mixing it with my salivary enzymes,

> > instead

> > of having a processing blade slice it and then have it take weeks to

> months

> > to get to my mouth?

> >

> > Without this evidence, it would be difficult for me to sell the " Go-chi "

> > product instead of giving my patients a pound of Organic dried Gou qi zi.

> >

> > Respectfully,

> > K.

> >

> > On Thu, Aug 21, 2008 at 4:34 AM, wrote:

> >

> > >

> > > Dear colleagues,

> > >

> > > About two weeks ago, I wrote to you asking for your feedback concerning

> > > Gou Qi Zi juice sold as GoChi by Freelife. I had a number of questions

> > and

> > > doubts about the product, and as I expressed, the concept of

> multi-level

> > > marketing I find abhorrent. I took your questions as well as my own,

> and

> > > presented them to the Freelife's chief products officer. Below are my

> > > questions and the answers I received:

> > >

> > > Q.It would be wise to have research done not by an employee of

> Freelife.

> > > It gives the impression of being jaded.

> > >

> > > A. Like all peer-reviewed journals, the Journal of Alternative and

> > > Complementary Medicine blinds their expert judges, so they had no idea

> > that

> > > the study was performed by the eminent Dr. Amagase and Dr. Nance.

> > Regardless

> > > of who designs or conducts a study, the fairness and honesty are

> > guaranteed

> > > by randomizing, double-blinding and placebo control. In our second and

> > third

> > > studies, Dr. Amagase was a corresponding author and did not conduct the

> > > study. We have other unreleased studies that have been conducted around

> > the

> > > world by members of our independent Scientific Advisory Board.

> > >

> > >

> > > Q. To be really considered seriously by the scientific community,

> studies

> > > should certainly be for longer than two weeks and they should be

> > conducted

> > > by objective third parties who do not have a vested interest in their

> > > validation.

> > >

> > > A. We respectfully disagree. For years, our customers had been telling

> us

> > > that they were getting remarkable results from our product within two

> > weeks

> > > or less. Frankly, we didn't believe them because there was nothing in

> the

> > > history of Traditional to support this. But, then

> again,

> > > goji's history in TCM has been in the form of dried berries, and our

> > product

> > > is the first ever to be made from fresh berries, and therefore delivers

> > far

> > > more of the goji berry's bioactive polysaccharides. And so, we decided

> to

> > > see if our customers were really experiencing these reported benefits

> or

> > if

> > > they were simply experiencing a placebo effect. We designed and

> conducted

> > a

> > > 14 day randomized, double-blind, placebo controlled study and found

> that

> > our

> > > customers were not crazy after all. The peer review judges at the

> medical

> > > journal that accepted and published our study had no problem with its

> 14

> > day

> > > duration, or that it was conducted on FreeLife

> > > employees. Our second and third studies were conducted for 30 days

> each,

> > > and on larger populations who had no knowledge of FreeLife or our

> > products.

> > > Other ongoing and planned studies are at 60 and 90 day duration.

> > >

> > > Q. These studies are very important to me and I would like to know when

> > > they will be published and authenticated.

> > >

> > > A. They are undergoing the peer review process at two separate

> journals,

> > > which can take several month. We can't disclose the names of the

> journals

> > > because they have prohibited us from doing so, but we hope that both

> > studies

> > > will be accepted and published by the end of 2008.

> > >

> > >

> > > Q. It would be helpful to conduct studies comparing the efficacy of

> juice

> > > from fresh Gou Qi ZI berries as opposed to reconstituted juice from

> dried

> > > berries.

> > >

> > > A. There's nothing wrong with using the dried gou qi zi, as has been

> done

> > > in China for thousands of years. But, as with any other fruit, we

> believe

> > > that fresh is better than dried. I always use the example of grapes vs.

> > > raisins. When we know that the reason that red grapes are healthy

> because

> > of

> > > the red pigment anthocyanin, how could one expect to get the same

> benefit

> > > from raisins or from raisin juice?

> > >

> > >

> > > Q. Can you tell me precisely where the Gou Qi Zi berry that Freelife

> uses

> > > comes from?

> > >

> > >

> > > A. From the Yellow River floodplains of Ningxia Hui province in north

> > > central China. There are also some great berries grown in Xinjiang

> Uygur

> > > province in the west, but our problem with using them is that we

> wouldn't

> > be

> > > able to get the fresh berries transported to our juicing plant in Gansu

> > > province quickly enough to prevent spoilage.

> > >

> > > Q. Why is the product called Himalayan Goji when it comes from Ningxia

> > Hui

> > > province in north central China, and Xinjiang Uygur in the Northwest.

> > These

> > > are nowhere near the Himalayas?

> > >

> > > A. The Himalayan people were the originators of a comprehensive

> > > wellness-based system of medicine, which predates TCM. They taught

> their

> > > system to the visiting Chinese silk traders and scholars, who

> ultimately

> > > refined it. Several Lycium species were used by the Himalayans, and

> > > according to legend, the Chinese visitors took samples home with them

> and

> > > planted them in their own valleys in northern and northwestern China.

> The

> > > name " Himalayan Goji Juice " was meant only to honor the discoverers of

> > the

> > > berry, but it was precisely because of confusion that we named our new

> > > product " GoChi " .

> > >

> > >

> > > Q. I am confused about an apparent contradiction. From what you

> > > represented to me, and from what the brochure " The pursuit of

> perfection "

> > > states, the berries used are freshly picked, cold pressed and packed in

> > > aseptic containers before they are shipped overseas (not reconstituted!

> )

> > > Yet, in the first study by Amagase and Nance it states on page 404

> under

> > > Materials and Methods: " ...This test material is a liquid dietary

> > supplement

> > > containing reconstituted juice from fresh whole L. Barbarum fruit with

> > 10%

> > > excipients by volume. " So which is it?

> > >

> > >

> > > A.The berries are freshly picked in Ningxia Hui, and are then shipped

> to

> > > our modern processing facility in nearby Gansu province. There, they

> are

> > > cold-pressed, after which about 50% of the water is removed by cold (36

> –

> > > 38ËšF), vacuum-assisted rotary thin-film evaporation. That gives us a

> > > concentrated puree (of a consistency somewhat like thin tomato paste).

> We

> > do

> > > this because the harvesting season is only 3 months long (July –

> > September),

> > > and we must purchase and prepare enough goji puree to last the rest of

> > the

> > > year (with accommodations for anticipated growth). Removing the water

> > makes

> > > it easier to store the puree under refrigerated conditions in

> aseptically

> > > sterilized totes. From a microbiological standpoint, removing the water

> > also

> > > reduces water activity, meaning that the puree is far less likely to

> > harbor

> > > bacteria and other microbes. Once we are ready for final processing,

> the

> > > puree is air-freighted to our bottling plant in the U.S., where it is

> > > reconstituted (meaning that the exact amount of water that was removed

> in

> > > Gansu is now replenished) , and then it is blended with a small (<10%)

> of

> > > grape and pomegranate juice to ensure a uniform color (our berries are

> > > picked for their polysaccharide content, not their color) and some

> > natural

> > > goji berry flavor (because once again, our berries have the highest LBP

> > > content and not always the sweetest taste – the natural goji berry

> flavor

> > > ensures that every bottle will taste the same). Lastly, the product is

> > > aseptically sterilized by a 4-second heat treatment (actually a shvitz

> > with

> > > live steam) that only coagulates microbial proteins and does not harm

> the

> > > delicate LBP content. We proved this during our process design and

> > > validation phase, and we test every batch to ensure that our product is

> > > pristine and fully potent.

> > >

> > >

> > > Q. Would it not be indicated to publish a research study comparing the

> > > potency of fresh Gou Qi Zi juice as opposed to reconstituted juice

> > (assuming

> > > that Freelife Go Chi juice is indeed fresh!).

> > >

> > > A. This is a very interesting idea, and if we had an unlimited research

> > > budget, I would love to do a study comparing our product with those of

> > our

> > > competitors, all of whom are using dried berries. Unfortunately, there

> is

> > a

> > > limit to the size of Ray and Kevin's wallet, but I can tell you this.

> We

> > > have analyzed every competing product that we have found on the market,

> > > including Goji 100, Goji Gold, Goji Splash and the rest, and we have

> not

> > > found one that has even one-third of our LBP content. And we truly

> > believe,

> > > as do most researchers, that the power of goji lies in these amazing

> > > glycopeptides known as Lycium barbarum polysaccharides (why Chinese

> > > researchers named them polysaccharides is a mystery to me, especially

> > when

> > > it's the amino acids on the glycopeptide surface – and their strong

> > > resemblance to microbial antigens – that initiates and promotes immune

> > > response). We also believe that there is significant LBP degradation in

> > > dried berries. Is

> > > it enough to render them ineffective? No. The long history of use of

> gou

> > qi

> > > zi in TCM is testimony to its effectiveness, but we are seeing with our

> > > product is quite remarkable. In China, people take gou qi zi over a

> > lifetime

> > > to achieve moderate improvement in disease resistance and health. But

> > we're

> > > seeing dramatic short-term improvement, and perhaps that's the biggest

> > > difference in using fresh berries – more polysaccharide power.

> > >

> > >

> > > Q. Would you be able to share with me the comparative analysis of the

> > > other Goji juice products?

> > >

> > > A. Sorry, but that information is highly confidential. Our philosophy

> is

> > > that we would rather promote our product based on its clinically

> > > demonstrated benefit rather than by slamming our competitors.

> > >

> > >

> > > Q. Can you explain in detail how the 90 day money back guarantee works.

> I

> > > understand that if not satisfied than when 90 days worth of bottles are

> > > returned, the amount paid for them will be refunded in full, correct?

> > > Well, first of all, I understand that this is based upon drinking 4 oz

> > > per day, but how many bottles does that mean? Also, what if two or

> three

> > > family members have been drinking the Go Chi juice, and none of them

> are

> > > satisfied, if all three return their bottles will they receive the same

> > > refund?

> > >

> > > A. FreeLife's no risk guarantee is just that: If you are dissatisfied

> > > with our product for any reason, return it within 90 days and receive a

> > > 100% refund, even if the bottle is empty! If you join FreeLife and you

> > > decide it is not for you even after 90 days, just let Freelife know

> that

> > you

> > > wish to cancel. Freelife will " refund your money less a 10% handling

> fee

> > for

> > > all resalable product and sales aids you purchased within one year of

> > your

> > > decision to cancel " .

> > >

> > >

> > > Q. What are the production costs that are involved, and why such an

> > > enormous price per bottle. Please show me how what is charged is not a

> > > reflection of a price which is inflated to benefit those higher up in

> the

> > > Multi-level marketing chain?

> > >

> > > A. The cost of our product is far higher than any other, as we are the

> > > only company that is using fresh berries and not dried. The logistics

> of

> > > transporting and quickly processing our berries in rural northern China

> > are

> > > daunting, and are very costly. Also, we would ask that you consider the

> > > millions of dollars that we are spending on clinical research and

> > charitable

> > > works. When compared to products such as Goji 100, we are competitively

> > > priced. We feel no reason to compete with the low-grade goji products

> > sold

> > > at deep discount in Wal-Mart and other outlets. We truly believe that

> > GoChi

> > > provides outstanding value for the money, even at the full retail

> price.

> > > However, many of our Marketing Executives receive rebates and bonuses

> > that

> > > result in them paying little or nothing for their product. Our

> > compensation

> > > plan benefits everyone who chooses to pursue our business opportunity,

> > and

> > > it is by far the most generous pay plan in the industry.

> > >

> > > Q. Would it not be prudent for Freelife to donate some of their profits

> > > back to the Chinese Medical community, such as to the TCM medical

> > schools,

> > > community clinics, research facilities, etc. The Chinese medical

> > community

> > > is an incredible potential ally, for sales referrals, and medical

> > > validation. Yet, thus far, the community views GoChi with much

> scepticism

> > > and distrust. As I think I have indicated to you, if I believe in a

> > product

> > > and receive satisfactory answers to my question, I will promote it. I

> can

> > > assure you that the same is true industry wide, but good will needs to

> be

> > > cultivated. Comments?

> > >

> > > A. We have donate generously from our profits to our worldwide GojiKids

> > > foundation, and a good amount of money has been spent in the areas of

> > > Ningxia Hui and Gansu provinces where our berries are grown and juiced.

> > > Perhaps some day we will be able to expand our charitable efforts

> beyond

> > > children's relief efforts, but for now, this is where we are dedicating

> > our

> > > dollars and our time.

> > >

> > > Q. It is customary for suppliers of medicinals, nutraceuticals, and

> other

> > > health products to offer licensed practitioners professional discounts.

> > Why

> > > is that not the policy of Freelife?

> > >

> > > A. The suppliers that you mention in the practitioner channel have a

> > > completely different sales and marketing structure, and our plan is

> > simply

> > > not optimized to favor one class of customers at the expense of others.

> > As

> > > stated previously, we do offer many opportunities for product rebates,

> > > volume-driven bonuses and substantial income. I'm just not the person

> to

> > > discuss them with you, as it's not my area of competence.

> > >

> > > Q. I am concerned with the hyperbole that has accompanied some of the

> > sales

> > > people I have come in contact with. Some of the claims and testimonials

> > > border on health claims which contravene FDA regulations. Please see

> this

> > > link to the letter from the FDA.

> > > http://www.fda. gov/cder/ warn/cyber/ 2006/CL226e. pdf How do you

> > reconcile

> > > this?

> > >

> > > A. I agree completely, and it bothers me tremendously that some of our

> > > people are trying to market our product as some kind of miracle cure.

> > This

> > > letter was sent to a FreeLife distributor, not to FreeLife. We have a

> > strict

> > > policy against making illegal medical claims for our product, and we

> > > terminate any distributor who fails to take down non-compliant websites

> > or

> > > who distributes non-compliant materials. This is why FreeLife has never

> > > received a warning letter from FDA or a state Attorney-General. You

> will

> > not

> > > find anything on a FreeLife website – past, present, or future – that

> > says

> > > anything about using our products for the treatment or cure of any

> > disease,

> > > and we strongly recommend to our Marketing Executives that they speak

> > only

> > > of the 19 clinically demonstrated benefits of GoChi and avoid trying to

> > > promote this product as some type of cure-all. We have no proof that it

> > is

> > > effective against any disease or condition, and we have no intention

> > > of studying it in any of these areas. Why? Because, in the eyes of FDA,

> > > that would re-classify our product as an unapproved new drug. It

> > currently

> > > costs about $600 million and 10 years to register a new drug in this

> > > country, and you can't sell drugs through Network Marketing, so can you

> > see

> > > why we would never go that route? We do believe, though that GoChi is

> the

> > > best gou qi zi product on the planet, and we are certain that it will

> be

> > a

> > > valuable addition to the armamentarium of any TCM practitioner. And,

> > > although I wish that I could teach restraint to those who would have

> you

> > > believe that GoChi can grow new limbs, I hope that you will forgive

> them

> > and

> > > understand that their exuberance arises from having seen remarkable

> > changes

> > > in themselves and in those dear to them as a result of using the

> > > product. But this is not how we promote our product. GoChi has been

> > > clinically demonstrated against placebo in a published randomized,

> > > double-blind study to

> > > significantly improve sleep, energy, mental sharpness, feelings of

> calm,

> > > contentment, good health and happiness, to help relieve stress and to

> > > improve regularity. Blood tests have shown dramatic increases in the

> > body's

> > > ability to defend itself against toxic free radicals and to improve

> > immune

> > > defenses. Isn't that enough? If people's medical conditions are

> improving

> > > while taking GoChi, it's because they are becoming more

> immunocompetent.

> > The

> > > immune system is G-d's miracle, not the goji berry. GoChi is simply the

> > > humble facilitator that restores balance to immunity. That is entirely

> > > consistent with the use of gou qi zi in Traditional .

> > >

> > > As many of you expressed, I too, harbor a natural scepticism towards

> > > products that make spectacular claims. But, in my opinion, the tough

> > > questions I asked were answered satisfactorily, and I will now

> recommend

> > > this product to those patients who are liver yin and blood, and Kidney

> > yin

> > > and jing vacuitous.

> > > The product appears to have quality and the guarantee is reasonable. If

> > > any of you are interested in it feel free to write or call me.

> > >

> > >

> > > Sincerely,

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > www.traditionaljewi shmedicine. net

> > >

> > >

> > >

[Guest guest]

Kokko,

 

I goofed, and you're right.  GoChi is NOT pasteurized or heat processed.  I

had assumed that it was, but when I check carefully one of their websites I saw

the following:

 

" Our goji berries are not heat processed or pasteurized like others on the

market as this would destroy the delicate balance of glyconutrients, which is

what makes this product superior to any other copy cat on the market. "

 

 

 

 

 

--- On Mon, 8/25/08, <johnkokko wrote:

 

<johnkokko

Re: Follow up questions on Gou Qi Zi juice-GoChi : Enzyme loss

with Pasteurization

Chinese Medicine

Monday, August 25, 2008, 9:19 AM

 

 

 

 

 

 

Yehuda,

 

Thanks for bringing that up... Flash pasteurization is HEAT (70 degrees

celsius) pasteurization,

which denatures (deactivates) crucial enzymes which make the Gou qi zi

traditionally effective.

An example of a Gou qi zi enzyme are cerebrosides:

which " was shown to protect liver cells from a toxic dry-cleaning chemical

better than the well-known liver protectant milk thistle "

http://www.smart- publications. com/overall_ health/goji_ berry.php

 

This is also a good reason to not decoct the berry (heat deactivation of

enzymes), but just to chew it.

 

This is a disadvantage of the juices that you get at the store or through a

MLM group.

Better just to make a smoothie at home with the whole fruit (dried or not).

 

Usually when the herbs are dried by traditional methods via farmers/herb

salers, they are dried at lower heats (below pasteurization levels) or in

the sun (below 70 degrees celsius = 158 degrees fahrenheit)

The regulatory flash pasteurization by the Go-Chi company neutralizes their

fresh picked puree process, in relation to enzymes,

which are a crucial component to the Gou Qi zi's legendary powers.

Furthermore, when the product sits on the shelf (unfrozen) for weeks to

months, the antioxidant load also decreases.

 

K.

 

On Mon, Aug 25, 2008 at 1:02 AM, >wrote:

 

> Hi Kokko,

>

> The point of the study was that drying significantly lowers the

> berry anthocyanin content. Now you are contending that it is a stretch to

> apply the fresh standards to Go Chi, which is essentially pureed and then

> flash pasteurized. We will wait for the studies to be published, but my

> point was that assuming that their process is able to sustain the benefit of

> the fresh fruit, then it would be significantly more beneficial than dried

> Gou Qi Zi.

>

> We'll see!

>

>

>

> www.traditionaljewi shmedicine. net

>

>

> --- On Fri, 8/22/08, <johnkokko (AT) gmail (DOT) com<johnkokko%40gmail. com>>

> wrote:

>

> <johnkokko (AT) gmail (DOT) com <johnkokko%40gmail. com>>

> Re: Follow up questions on Gou Qi Zi juice-GoChi

> <Traditional_

Chinese_Medicine %40. com>

> Friday, August 22, 2008, 5:03 PM

>

> Yehuda,

>

> Thanks for the pubmed study and am excited to see the forthcoming studies.

> Of course, any company would only publish results which would support the

> sale of their own product,

> so hopefully we can see the entire results, irrespective of the outcome, in

> the name of science.

>

> If we go by content as the basis of our evaluation of the Go-chi

> product,

> The " Change of Total Anthocyanins in Blueberries and Their Antioxidant

> Effect After Drying and Freezing " study that you linked for us

> had these results:

>

> * " Table 1*

>

> Anthocyanin content in evaluated samples.

> Blueberry samplesTotal anthocyaninsmg/ g dry matter

> ------------ --------- ---------

> Fresh blueberries (FR0)7.2 ± 0.5a**Fresh blueberries 2-week5.7 ±

> 0.5abstorage

> at 5°C (FR2)Untreated dried (UN)4.3 ± 0.1bcPretreated dried (PT)3.7 ±

> 0.2cStored

> frozen for 1 month (FZ1M)8.1 ± 0.1aStored frozen for 3 months (FZ3M)7.9 ±

> 1.3a "

>

> Which one of these would the Go-chi product fall under? Once the product is

> put on the shelf even after initial freezing, the anthocyanin level falls

> to

> levels of those of " Untreated Dried " .

> 5.7 +/- .5 (if stored at 5 degrees celsius, which I don't believe the

> Go-chi product is consistently stored at, because of transportation,

> distribution to customers via vendors via outlets and storage) vs. 4.3 +/-

> .1 (if untreated and dried)

> This anthocyanin content difference is not significant.

> When the product becomes unfrozen and goes on the shelf for weeks to

> months,

> the anythocyanin level will drop to levels below that of 5.7 +/- .5

> (according to the decreasing trend).

>

> This study was also ex vivo. But from the results, we can see that a

> product which is not kept consistently frozen, does not have any

> significant

> increase in anthocyanins than a product which is untreated and dried (ie.

> organic dried gou qi zi).

>

> So, for now, I'll stick to the dried gou qi zi.

> If you can find some fresh-frozen gou qi zi berries, that's another story.

>

> Respectfully,

> K.

>

> On Thu, Aug 21, 2008 at 10:47 AM, >wrote:

>

> > Dear Kokko,

> >

> > Studies do show that drying decreases anthocyanin content in fruit.

> > See:(http://www.pubmedce ntral.nih. gov/articlerende r.fcgi?artid=

> 1082901

>

> > And again the problem I have with ORAC scoring is that it just measures

> in

> > vitro, not in vivo. The amount of grape and pomegranate juice added to Go

> > Chi IMO is statistically insignificant (3%) and is added to enhance

> flavor.

> > Of course, this could present a problem to someone hypersensitive

> > to pomegranates and/or grapes (I have two such patients!)

> >

> > Your concerns, I think, are one of the reasons that Freelife has

> conducted

> > other clinical studies, and I await the published results of the two

> > additional studies submitted to peer-review journals which should be out

> > before the end of the year which I referred to earlier: The immune study

> > testing and comparing the significant difference of three markers in vivo

> :

> > lymphocytes, IL-2 and IgG, and the antioxidant study testing and

> comparing,

> > again, in vivo levels of SOD, GSH-Px and MDA.

> >

> > Concerning the cost, they claim that the costs involved in their

> production

> > are " higher than any other, as we are the only company that is using

> fresh

> > berries and not dried. The logistics of transporting and quickly

> processing

> > our berries in rural northern China are daunting.... " That doesn't seem

> > unreasonable to me, assuming that what they are claiming is true. It is

> > also telling, I think, that they are investing a significant amount of

> > their budget to research and development in order to support their claims

> > scientifically. I think that this also is unique for companies hawking a

> > product.

> >

> > Again, the two additional studies have been presented and will be

> published

> > shortly, apparently. They say that other studies are forthcoming.

> >

> > As always, I appreciate your insightful questions and desire to reinforce

> > scientific validation of our wonderful medicine.

> >

> > All the best,

> >

> >

> > Yehuda

> >

> >

> > Yehuda,

> > Thanks for relaying this info to the group.

> > I'm not convinced that the fresh puree that has been reconstituted,

> > bottled,

> > shipped and sitting on a non-refrigerated shelf is going to have more

> > nutritional value than the dried fruit that can be eaten whole or

> decocted

> > immediately be a patient or practitioner.

> > There was a clinical study done to compare the " Antioxidant capacity and

> > phenolic content of grapes, sun-dried raisins, and golden raisins and

> their

> > effect on ex vivo serum antioxidant capacity. "

> >

> > " The objectives of this study were to compare the antioxidant capacity

> and

> > phenolic content of green Thompson seedless grapes (the most common

> variety

> > of grapes consumed in the United States), sun-dried raisins, and golden

> > raisins (both produced from Thompson seedless grapes) and to observe the

> > effects of their consumption over 4 weeks in 15 healthy human males with

> a

> > cross-over design. The oxygen radical absorbance capacity (ORAC)

> (positive

> > statistical significance for grapes after 2 weeks and golden raisins

> after

> > 3

> > weeks), serum oxidation (positive statistical significance for golden

> > raisin

> > lag time after 4 weeks), total phenolics (no significant effects), and

> > C-reactive protein (no significant effects) were monitored. "

> >

> > *The conclusions from the study were that, " Golden raisins had the

> highest

> > antioxidant capacity and phenolic content. " *

> > http://cat.inist. fr/?aModele= afficheN & cpsidt=19186324

> >

> > So, more clinical research needs to be done to be convincing that the

> > Go-chi

> > juice is more beneficial than the traditional dried berries, especially

> for

> > the price differential.

> > If raisins have similar or even higher antioxidant profiles than the

> fresh

> > grapes from which they were derived, why pay 10 times more for the same

> > stuff in a bottle? (Since these fresh gou qi zi vs dried gou qi zi

> studies

> > have not been published, how can we truly know other than make

> > speculations,

> > as the Go-chi juice sales representative has done)

> >

> > Also, since grape and pomegranate juice are added to the puree for the

> > Go-chi juice,

> > doesn't that skew the results for the studies, since it has been long

> > verified that grape and pomegranate juices are among the highest ORAC

> > scored

> > foods? That doesn't give credence to " Go-chi " juice, but the power of

> > grape and pomegranate juices mixed with Gou qi zi (which has already been

> > validated by traditional use).

> >

> > What if I chewed dried gou qi zi mixing it with my salivary enzymes,

> > instead

> > of having a processing blade slice it and then have it take weeks to

> months

> > to get to my mouth?

> >

> > Without this evidence, it would be difficult for me to sell the " Go-chi "

> > product instead of giving my patients a pound of Organic dried Gou qi zi.

> >

> > Respectfully,

> > K.

> >

> > On Thu, Aug 21, 2008 at 4:34 AM, (AT) (DOT)

com>wrote:

> >

> > >

> > > Dear colleagues,

> > >

> > > About two weeks ago, I wrote to you asking for your feedback concerning

> > > Gou Qi Zi juice sold as GoChi by Freelife. I had a number of questions

> > and

> > > doubts about the product, and as I expressed, the concept of

> multi-level

> > > marketing I find abhorrent. I took your questions as well as my own,

> and

> > > presented them to the Freelife's chief products officer. Below are my

> > > questions and the answers I received:

> > >

> > > Q.It would be wise to have research done not by an employee of

> Freelife.

> > > It gives the impression of being jaded.

> > >

> > > A. Like all peer-reviewed journals, the Journal of Alternative and

> > > Complementary Medicine blinds their expert judges, so they had no idea

> > that

> > > the study was performed by the eminent Dr. Amagase and Dr. Nance.

> > Regardless

> > > of who designs or conducts a study, the fairness and honesty are

> > guaranteed

> > > by randomizing, double-blinding and placebo control. In our second and

> > third

> > > studies, Dr. Amagase was a corresponding author and did not conduct the

> > > study. We have other unreleased studies that have been conducted around

> > the

> > > world by members of our independent Scientific Advisory Board.

> > >

> > >

> > > Q. To be really considered seriously by the scientific community,

> studies

> > > should certainly be for longer than two weeks and they should be

> > conducted

> > > by objective third parties who do not have a vested interest in their

> > > validation.

> > >

> > > A. We respectfully disagree. For years, our customers had been telling

> us

> > > that they were getting remarkable results from our product within two

> > weeks

> > > or less. Frankly, we didn't believe them because there was nothing in

> the

> > > history of Traditional to support this. But, then

> again,

> > > goji's history in TCM has been in the form of dried berries, and our

> > product

> > > is the first ever to be made from fresh berries, and therefore delivers

> > far

> > > more of the goji berry's bioactive polysaccharides. And so, we decided

> to

> > > see if our customers were really experiencing these reported benefits

> or

> > if

> > > they were simply experiencing a placebo effect. We designed and

> conducted

> > a

> > > 14 day randomized, double-blind, placebo controlled study and found

> that

> > our

> > > customers were not crazy after all. The peer review judges at the

> medical

> > > journal that accepted and published our study had no problem with its

> 14

> > day

> > > duration, or that it was conducted on FreeLife

> > > employees. Our second and third studies were conducted for 30 days

> each,

> > > and on larger populations who had no knowledge of FreeLife or our

> > products.

> > > Other ongoing and planned studies are at 60 and 90 day duration.

> > >

> > > Q. These studies are very important to me and I would like to know when

> > > they will be published and authenticated.

> > >

> > > A. They are undergoing the peer review process at two separate

> journals,

> > > which can take several month. We can't disclose the names of the

> journals

> > > because they have prohibited us from doing so, but we hope that both

> > studies

> > > will be accepted and published by the end of 2008.

> > >

> > >

> > > Q. It would be helpful to conduct studies comparing the efficacy of

> juice

> > > from fresh Gou Qi ZI berries as opposed to reconstituted juice from

> dried

> > > berries.

> > >

> > > A. There's nothing wrong with using the dried gou qi zi, as has been

> done

> > > in China for thousands of years. But, as with any other fruit, we

> believe

> > > that fresh is better than dried. I always use the example of grapes vs.

> > > raisins. When we know that the reason that red grapes are healthy

> because

> > of

> > > the red pigment anthocyanin, how could one expect to get the same

> benefit

> > > from raisins or from raisin juice?

> > >

> > >

> > > Q. Can you tell me precisely where the Gou Qi Zi berry that Freelife

> uses

> > > comes from?

> > >

> > >

> > > A. From the Yellow River floodplains of Ningxia Hui province in north

> > > central China. There are also some great berries grown in Xinjiang

> Uygur

> > > province in the west, but our problem with using them is that we

> wouldn't

> > be

> > > able to get the fresh berries transported to our juicing plant in Gansu

> > > province quickly enough to prevent spoilage.

> > >

> > > Q. Why is the product called Himalayan Goji when it comes from Ningxia

> > Hui

> > > province in north central China, and Xinjiang Uygur in the Northwest.

> > These

> > > are nowhere near the Himalayas?

> > >

> > > A. The Himalayan people were the originators of a comprehensive

> > > wellness-based system of medicine, which predates TCM. They taught

> their

> > > system to the visiting Chinese silk traders and scholars, who

> ultimately

> > > refined it. Several Lycium species were used by the Himalayans, and

> > > according to legend, the Chinese visitors took samples home with them

> and

> > > planted them in their own valleys in northern and northwestern China.

> The

> > > name " Himalayan Goji Juice " was meant only to honor the discoverers of

> > the

> > > berry, but it was precisely because of confusion that we named our new

> > > product " GoChi " .

> > >

> > >

> > > Q. I am confused about an apparent contradiction. From what you

> > > represented to me, and from what the brochure " The pursuit of

> perfection "

> > > states, the berries used are freshly picked, cold pressed and packed in

> > > aseptic containers before they are shipped overseas (not reconstituted!

> )

> > > Yet, in the first study by Amagase and Nance it states on page 404

> under

> > > Materials and Methods: " ...This test material is a liquid dietary

> > supplement

> > > containing reconstituted juice from fresh whole L. Barbarum fruit with

> > 10%

> > > excipients by volume. " So which is it?

> > >

> > >

> > > A.The berries are freshly picked in Ningxia Hui, and are then shipped

> to

> > > our modern processing facility in nearby Gansu province. There, they

> are

> > > cold-pressed, after which about 50% of the water is removed by cold (36

> –

> > > 38ËšF), vacuum-assisted rotary thin-film evaporation. That gives us a

> > > concentrated puree (of a consistency somewhat like thin tomato paste).

> We

> > do

> > > this because the harvesting season is only 3 months long (July –

> > September),

> > > and we must purchase and prepare enough goji puree to last the rest of

> > the

> > > year (with accommodations for anticipated growth). Removing the water

> > makes

> > > it easier to store the puree under refrigerated conditions in

> aseptically

> > > sterilized totes. From a microbiological standpoint, removing the water

> > also

> > > reduces water activity, meaning that the puree is far less likely to

> > harbor

> > > bacteria and other microbes. Once we are ready for final processing,

> the

> > > puree is air-freighted to our bottling plant in the U.S., where it is

> > > reconstituted (meaning that the exact amount of water that was removed

> in

> > > Gansu is now replenished) , and then it is blended with a small (<10%)

> of

> > > grape and pomegranate juice to ensure a uniform color (our berries are

> > > picked for their polysaccharide content, not their color) and some

> > natural

> > > goji berry flavor (because once again, our berries have the highest LBP

> > > content and not always the sweetest taste – the natural goji berry

> flavor

> > > ensures that every bottle will taste the same). Lastly, the product is

> > > aseptically sterilized by a 4-second heat treatment (actually a shvitz

> > with

> > > live steam) that only coagulates microbial proteins and does not harm

> the

> > > delicate LBP content. We proved this during our process design and

> > > validation phase, and we test every batch to ensure that our product is

> > > pristine and fully potent.

> > >

> > >

> > > Q. Would it not be indicated to publish a research study comparing the

> > > potency of fresh Gou Qi Zi juice as opposed to reconstituted juice

> > (assuming

> > > that Freelife Go Chi juice is indeed fresh!).

> > >

> > > A. This is a very interesting idea, and if we had an unlimited research

> > > budget, I would love to do a study comparing our product with those of

> > our

> > > competitors, all of whom are using dried berries. Unfortunately, there

> is

> > a

> > > limit to the size of Ray and Kevin's wallet, but I can tell you this.

> We

> > > have analyzed every competing product that we have found on the market,

> > > including Goji 100, Goji Gold, Goji Splash and the rest, and we have

> not

> > > found one that has even one-third of our LBP content. And we truly

> > believe,

> > > as do most researchers, that the power of goji lies in these amazing

> > > glycopeptides known as Lycium barbarum polysaccharides (why Chinese

> > > researchers named them polysaccharides is a mystery to me, especially

> > when

> > > it's the amino acids on the glycopeptide surface – and their strong

> > > resemblance to microbial antigens – that initiates and promotes immune

> > > response). We also believe that there is significant LBP degradation in

> > > dried berries. Is

> > > it enough to render them ineffective? No. The long history of use of

> gou

> > qi

> > > zi in TCM is testimony to its effectiveness, but we are seeing with our

> > > product is quite remarkable. In China, people take gou qi zi over a

> > lifetime

> > > to achieve moderate improvement in disease resistance and health. But

> > we're

> > > seeing dramatic short-term improvement, and perhaps that's the biggest

> > > difference in using fresh berries – more polysaccharide power.

> > >

> > >

> > > Q. Would you be able to share with me the comparative analysis of the

> > > other Goji juice products?

> > >

> > > A. Sorry, but that information is highly confidential. Our philosophy

> is

> > > that we would rather promote our product based on its clinically

> > > demonstrated benefit rather than by slamming our competitors.

> > >

> > >

> > > Q. Can you explain in detail how the 90 day money back guarantee works.

> I

> > > understand that if not satisfied than when 90 days worth of bottles are

> > > returned, the amount paid for them will be refunded in full, correct?

> > > Well, first of all, I understand that this is based upon drinking 4 oz

> > > per day, but how many bottles does that mean? Also, what if two or

> three

> > > family members have been drinking the Go Chi juice, and none of them

> are

> > > satisfied, if all three return their bottles will they receive the same

> > > refund?

> > >

> > > A. FreeLife's no risk guarantee is just that: If you are dissatisfied

> > > with our product for any reason, return it within 90 days and receive a

> > > 100% refund, even if the bottle is empty! If you join FreeLife and you

> > > decide it is not for you even after 90 days, just let Freelife know

> that

> > you

> > > wish to cancel. Freelife will " refund your money less a 10% handling

> fee

> > for

> > > all resalable product and sales aids you purchased within one year of

> > your

> > > decision to cancel " .

> > >

> > >

> > > Q. What are the production costs that are involved, and why such an

> > > enormous price per bottle. Please show me how what is charged is not a

> > > reflection of a price which is inflated to benefit those higher up in

> the

> > > Multi-level marketing chain?

> > >

> > > A. The cost of our product is far higher than any other, as we are the

> > > only company that is using fresh berries and not dried. The logistics

> of

> > > transporting and quickly processing our berries in rural northern China

> > are

> > > daunting, and are very costly. Also, we would ask that you consider the

> > > millions of dollars that we are spending on clinical research and

> > charitable

> > > works. When compared to products such as Goji 100, we are competitively

> > > priced. We feel no reason to compete with the low-grade goji products

> > sold

> > > at deep discount in Wal-Mart and other outlets. We truly believe that

> > GoChi

> > > provides outstanding value for the money, even at the full retail

> price.

> > > However, many of our Marketing Executives receive rebates and bonuses

> > that

> > > result in them paying little or nothing for their product. Our

> > compensation

> > > plan benefits everyone who chooses to pursue our business opportunity,

> > and

> > > it is by far the most generous pay plan in the industry.

> > >

> > > Q. Would it not be prudent for Freelife to donate some of their profits

> > > back to the Chinese Medical community, such as to the TCM medical

> > schools,

> > > community clinics, research facilities, etc. The Chinese medical

> > community

> > > is an incredible potential ally, for sales referrals, and medical

> > > validation. Yet, thus far, the community views GoChi with much

> scepticism

> > > and distrust. As I think I have indicated to you, if I believe in a

> > product

> > > and receive satisfactory answers to my question, I will promote it. I

> can

> > > assure you that the same is true industry wide, but good will needs to

> be

> > > cultivated. Comments?

> > >

> > > A. We have donate generously from our profits to our worldwide GojiKids

> > > foundation, and a good amount of money has been spent in the areas of

> > > Ningxia Hui and Gansu provinces where our berries are grown and juiced.

> > > Perhaps some day we will be able to expand our charitable efforts

> beyond

> > > children's relief efforts, but for now, this is where we are dedicating

> > our

> > > dollars and our time.

> > >

> > > Q. It is customary for suppliers of medicinals, nutraceuticals, and

> other

> > > health products to offer licensed practitioners professional discounts.

> > Why

> > > is that not the policy of Freelife?

> > >

> > > A. The suppliers that you mention in the practitioner channel have a

> > > completely different sales and marketing structure, and our plan is

> > simply

> > > not optimized to favor one class of customers at the expense of others.

> > As

> > > stated previously, we do offer many opportunities for product rebates,

> > > volume-driven bonuses and substantial income. I'm just not the person

> to

> > > discuss them with you, as it's not my area of competence.

> > >

> > > Q. I am concerned with the hyperbole that has accompanied some of the

> > sales

> > > people I have come in contact with. Some of the claims and testimonials

> > > border on health claims which contravene FDA regulations. Please see

> this

> > > link to the letter from the FDA.

> > > http://www.fda. gov/cder/ warn/cyber/ 2006/CL226e. pdf How do you

> > reconcile

> > > this?

> > >

> > > A. I agree completely, and it bothers me tremendously that some of our

> > > people are trying to market our product as some kind of miracle cure.

> > This

> > > letter was sent to a FreeLife distributor, not to FreeLife. We have a

> > strict

> > > policy against making illegal medical claims for our product, and we

> > > terminate any distributor who fails to take down non-compliant websites

> > or

> > > who distributes non-compliant materials. This is why FreeLife has never

> > > received a warning letter from FDA or a state Attorney-General. You

> will

> > not

> > > find anything on a FreeLife website – past, present, or future – that

> > says

> > > anything about using our products for the treatment or cure of any

> > disease,

> > > and we strongly recommend to our Marketing Executives that they speak

> > only

> > > of the 19 clinically demonstrated benefits of GoChi and avoid trying to

> > > promote this product as some type of cure-all. We have no proof that it

> > is

> > > effective against any disease or condition, and we have no intention

> > > of studying it in any of these areas. Why? Because, in the eyes of FDA,

> > > that would re-classify our product as an unapproved new drug. It

> > currently

> > > costs about $600 million and 10 years to register a new drug in this

> > > country, and you can't sell drugs through Network Marketing, so can you

> > see

> > > why we would never go that route? We do believe, though that GoChi is

> the

> > > best gou qi zi product on the planet, and we are certain that it will

> be

> > a

> > > valuable addition to the armamentarium of any TCM practitioner. And,

> > > although I wish that I could teach restraint to those who would have

> you

> > > believe that GoChi can grow new limbs, I hope that you will forgive

> them

> > and

> > > understand that their exuberance arises from having seen remarkable

> > changes

> > > in themselves and in those dear to them as a result of using the

> > > product. But this is not how we promote our product. GoChi has been

> > > clinically demonstrated against placebo in a published randomized,

> > > double-blind study to

> > > significantly improve sleep, energy, mental sharpness, feelings of

> calm,

> > > contentment, good health and happiness, to help relieve stress and to

> > > improve regularity. Blood tests have shown dramatic increases in the

> > body's

> > > ability to defend itself against toxic free radicals and to improve

> > immune

> > > defenses. Isn't that enough? If people's medical conditions are

> improving

> > > while taking GoChi, it's because they are becoming more

> immunocompetent.

> > The

> > > immune system is G-d's miracle, not the goji berry. GoChi is simply the

> > > humble facilitator that restores balance to immunity. That is entirely

> > > consistent with the use of gou qi zi in Traditional .

> > >

> > > As many of you expressed, I too, harbor a natural scepticism towards

> > > products that make spectacular claims. But, in my opinion, the tough

> > > questions I asked were answered satisfactorily, and I will now

> recommend

> > > this product to those patients who are liver yin and blood, and Kidney

> > yin

> > > and jing vacuitous.

> > > The product appears to have quality and the guarantee is reasonable. If

> > > any of you are interested in it feel free to write or call me.

> > >

> > >

> > > Sincerely,

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > www.traditionaljewi shmedicine. net

> > >

> > >

> > >

[Guest guest]

Yehuda,

 

That's good to know.

But, how do they keep the product from bacterial and mold build-up without

preservatives?

Or are there some preservatives, since it isn't heat pasteurized?

K.

 

 

On Mon, Aug 25, 2008 at 9:49 AM, wrote:

 

> Kokko,

>

> I goofed, and you're right. GoChi is NOT pasteurized or heat processed. I

> had assumed that it was, but when I check carefully one of their websites I

> saw the following:

>

> " Our goji berries are not heat processed or pasteurized like others on the

> market as this would destroy the delicate balance of glyconutrients, which

> is what makes this product superior to any other copy cat on the market. "

>

>

>

>

>

>

> --- On Mon, 8/25/08, <johnkokko<johnkokko%40gmail.com>>

> wrote:

>

> <johnkokko <johnkokko%40gmail.com>>

> Re: Follow up questions on Gou Qi Zi juice-GoChi : Enzyme

> loss with Pasteurization

> To:

Chinese Medicine <Chinese Medicine%40yaho\

ogroups.com>

> Monday, August 25, 2008, 9:19 AM

>

>

> Yehuda,

>

> Thanks for bringing that up... Flash pasteurization is HEAT (70 degrees

> celsius) pasteurization,

> which denatures (deactivates) crucial enzymes which make the Gou qi zi

> traditionally effective.

> An example of a Gou qi zi enzyme are cerebrosides:

> which " was shown to protect liver cells from a toxic dry-cleaning chemical

> better than the well-known liver protectant milk thistle "

> http://www.smart- publications. com/overall_ health/goji_ berry.php

>

> This is also a good reason to not decoct the berry (heat deactivation of

> enzymes), but just to chew it.

>

> This is a disadvantage of the juices that you get at the store or through a

> MLM group.

> Better just to make a smoothie at home with the whole fruit (dried or not).

>

> Usually when the herbs are dried by traditional methods via farmers/herb

> salers, they are dried at lower heats (below pasteurization levels) or in

> the sun (below 70 degrees celsius = 158 degrees fahrenheit)

> The regulatory flash pasteurization by the Go-Chi company neutralizes their

> fresh picked puree process, in relation to enzymes,

> which are a crucial component to the Gou Qi zi's legendary powers.

> Furthermore, when the product sits on the shelf (unfrozen) for weeks to

> months, the antioxidant load also decreases.

>

> K.

>

> On Mon, Aug 25, 2008 at 1:02 AM, wrote:

>

> > Hi Kokko,

> >

> > The point of the study was that drying significantly lowers the

> > berry anthocyanin content. Now you are contending that it is a stretch to

> > apply the fresh standards to Go Chi, which is essentially pureed and then

> > flash pasteurized. We will wait for the studies to be published, but my

> > point was that assuming that their process is able to sustain the benefit

> of

> > the fresh fruit, then it would be significantly more beneficial than

> dried

> > Gou Qi Zi.

> >

> > We'll see!

> >

> >

> >

> > www.traditionaljewi shmedicine. net

> >

> >

> > --- On Fri, 8/22/08, <johnkokko (AT) gmail (DOT) com<johnkokko%40gmail.

> com>>

> > wrote:

> >

> > <johnkokko (AT) gmail (DOT) com <johnkokko%40gmail. com>>

> > Re: Follow up questions on Gou Qi Zi juice-GoChi

> > <Traditional_

> Chinese_Medicine %40. com>

>

> > Friday, August 22, 2008, 5:03 PM

> >

> > Yehuda,

> >

> > Thanks for the pubmed study and am excited to see the forthcoming

> studies.

> > Of course, any company would only publish results which would support the

> > sale of their own product,

> > so hopefully we can see the entire results, irrespective of the outcome,

> in

> > the name of science.

> >

> > If we go by content as the basis of our evaluation of the Go-chi

> > product,

> > The " Change of Total Anthocyanins in Blueberries and Their Antioxidant

> > Effect After Drying and Freezing " study that you linked for us

> > had these results:

> >

> > * " Table 1*

> >

> > Anthocyanin content in evaluated samples.

> > Blueberry samplesTotal anthocyaninsmg/ g dry matter

> > ------------ --------- ---------

> > Fresh blueberries (FR0)7.2 ± 0.5a**Fresh blueberries 2-week5.7 ±

> > 0.5abstorage

> > at 5°C (FR2)Untreated dried (UN)4.3 ± 0.1bcPretreated dried (PT)3.7 ±

> > 0.2cStored

> > frozen for 1 month (FZ1M)8.1 ± 0.1aStored frozen for 3 months (FZ3M)7.9 ±

> > 1.3a "

> >

> > Which one of these would the Go-chi product fall under? Once the product

> is

> > put on the shelf even after initial freezing, the anthocyanin level falls

> > to

> > levels of those of " Untreated Dried " .

> > 5.7 +/- .5 (if stored at 5 degrees celsius, which I don't believe the

> > Go-chi product is consistently stored at, because of transportation,

> > distribution to customers via vendors via outlets and storage) vs. 4.3

> +/-

> > .1 (if untreated and dried)

> > This anthocyanin content difference is not significant.

> > When the product becomes unfrozen and goes on the shelf for weeks to

> > months,

> > the anythocyanin level will drop to levels below that of 5.7 +/- .5

> > (according to the decreasing trend).

> >

> > This study was also ex vivo. But from the results, we can see that a

> > product which is not kept consistently frozen, does not have any

> > significant

> > increase in anthocyanins than a product which is untreated and dried (ie.

> > organic dried gou qi zi).

> >

> > So, for now, I'll stick to the dried gou qi zi.

> > If you can find some fresh-frozen gou qi zi berries, that's another

> story.

> >

> > Respectfully,

> > K.

> >

> > On Thu, Aug 21, 2008 at 10:47 AM, yehuda frischman

<wrote:

> >

> > > Dear Kokko,

> > >

> > > Studies do show that drying decreases anthocyanin content in fruit.

> > > See:(http://www.pubmedce ntral.nih. gov/articlerende r.fcgi?artid=

> > 1082901

> >

> > > And again the problem I have with ORAC scoring is that it just measures

> > in

> > > vitro, not in vivo. The amount of grape and pomegranate juice added to

> Go

> > > Chi IMO is statistically insignificant (3%) and is added to enhance

> > flavor.

> > > Of course, this could present a problem to someone hypersensitive

> > > to pomegranates and/or grapes (I have two such patients!)

> > >

> > > Your concerns, I think, are one of the reasons that Freelife has

> > conducted

> > > other clinical studies, and I await the published results of the two

> > > additional studies submitted to peer-review journals which should be

> out

> > > before the end of the year which I referred to earlier: The immune

> study

> > > testing and comparing the significant difference of three markers in

> vivo

> > :

> > > lymphocytes, IL-2 and IgG, and the antioxidant study testing and

> > comparing,

> > > again, in vivo levels of SOD, GSH-Px and MDA.

> > >

> > > Concerning the cost, they claim that the costs involved in their

> > production

> > > are " higher than any other, as we are the only company that is using

> > fresh

> > > berries and not dried. The logistics of transporting and quickly

> > processing

> > > our berries in rural northern China are daunting.... " That doesn't

> seem

> > > unreasonable to me, assuming that what they are claiming is true. It is

> > > also telling, I think, that they are investing a significant amount of

> > > their budget to research and development in order to support their

> claims

> > > scientifically. I think that this also is unique for companies hawking

> a

> > > product.

> > >

> > > Again, the two additional studies have been presented and will be

> > published

> > > shortly, apparently. They say that other studies are forthcoming.

> > >

> > > As always, I appreciate your insightful questions and desire to

> reinforce

> > > scientific validation of our wonderful medicine.

> > >

> > > All the best,

> > >

> > >

> > > Yehuda

> > >

> > >

> > > Yehuda,

> > > Thanks for relaying this info to the group.

> > > I'm not convinced that the fresh puree that has been reconstituted,

> > > bottled,

> > > shipped and sitting on a non-refrigerated shelf is going to have more

> > > nutritional value than the dried fruit that can be eaten whole or

> > decocted

> > > immediately be a patient or practitioner.

> > > There was a clinical study done to compare the " Antioxidant capacity

> and

> > > phenolic content of grapes, sun-dried raisins, and golden raisins and

> > their

> > > effect on ex vivo serum antioxidant capacity. "

> > >

> > > " The objectives of this study were to compare the antioxidant capacity

> > and

> > > phenolic content of green Thompson seedless grapes (the most common

> > variety

> > > of grapes consumed in the United States), sun-dried raisins, and golden

> > > raisins (both produced from Thompson seedless grapes) and to observe

> the

> > > effects of their consumption over 4 weeks in 15 healthy human males

> with

> > a

> > > cross-over design. The oxygen radical absorbance capacity (ORAC)

> > (positive

> > > statistical significance for grapes after 2 weeks and golden raisins

> > after

> > > 3

> > > weeks), serum oxidation (positive statistical significance for golden

> > > raisin

> > > lag time after 4 weeks), total phenolics (no significant effects), and

> > > C-reactive protein (no significant effects) were monitored. "

> > >

> > > *The conclusions from the study were that, " Golden raisins had the

> > highest

> > > antioxidant capacity and phenolic content. " *

> > > http://cat.inist. fr/?aModele= afficheN & cpsidt=19186324

> > >

> > > So, more clinical research needs to be done to be convincing that the

> > > Go-chi

> > > juice is more beneficial than the traditional dried berries, especially

> > for

> > > the price differential.

> > > If raisins have similar or even higher antioxidant profiles than the

> > fresh

> > > grapes from which they were derived, why pay 10 times more for the same

> > > stuff in a bottle? (Since these fresh gou qi zi vs dried gou qi zi

> > studies

> > > have not been published, how can we truly know other than make

> > > speculations,

> > > as the Go-chi juice sales representative has done)

> > >

> > > Also, since grape and pomegranate juice are added to the puree for the

> > > Go-chi juice,

> > > doesn't that skew the results for the studies, since it has been long

> > > verified that grape and pomegranate juices are among the highest ORAC

> > > scored

> > > foods? That doesn't give credence to " Go-chi " juice, but the power of

> > > grape and pomegranate juices mixed with Gou qi zi (which has already

> been

> > > validated by traditional use).

> > >

> > > What if I chewed dried gou qi zi mixing it with my salivary enzymes,

> > > instead

> > > of having a processing blade slice it and then have it take weeks to

> > months

> > > to get to my mouth?

> > >

> > > Without this evidence, it would be difficult for me to sell the

> " Go-chi "

> > > product instead of giving my patients a pound of Organic dried Gou qi

> zi.

> > >

> > > Respectfully,

> > > K.

> > >

> > > On Thu, Aug 21, 2008 at 4:34 AM, yehuda frischman

<wrote:

> > >

> > > >

> > > > Dear colleagues,

> > > >

> > > > About two weeks ago, I wrote to you asking for your feedback

> concerning

> > > > Gou Qi Zi juice sold as GoChi by Freelife. I had a number of

> questions

> > > and

> > > > doubts about the product, and as I expressed, the concept of

> > multi-level

> > > > marketing I find abhorrent. I took your questions as well as my own,

> > and

> > > > presented them to the Freelife's chief products officer. Below are my

> > > > questions and the answers I received:

> > > >

> > > > Q.It would be wise to have research done not by an employee of

> > Freelife.

> > > > It gives the impression of being jaded.

> > > >

> > > > A. Like all peer-reviewed journals, the Journal of Alternative and

> > > > Complementary Medicine blinds their expert judges, so they had no

> idea

> > > that

> > > > the study was performed by the eminent Dr. Amagase and Dr. Nance.

> > > Regardless

> > > > of who designs or conducts a study, the fairness and honesty are

> > > guaranteed

> > > > by randomizing, double-blinding and placebo control. In our second

> and

> > > third

> > > > studies, Dr. Amagase was a corresponding author and did not conduct

> the

> > > > study. We have other unreleased studies that have been conducted

> around

> > > the

> > > > world by members of our independent Scientific Advisory Board.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Q. To be really considered seriously by the scientific community,

> > studies

> > > > should certainly be for longer than two weeks and they should be

> > > conducted

> > > > by objective third parties who do not have a vested interest in their

> > > > validation.

> > > >

> > > > A. We respectfully disagree. For years, our customers had been

> telling

> > us

> > > > that they were getting remarkable results from our product within two

> > > weeks

> > > > or less. Frankly, we didn't believe them because there was nothing in

> > the

> > > > history of Traditional to support this. But, then

> > again,

> > > > goji's history in TCM has been in the form of dried berries, and our

> > > product

> > > > is the first ever to be made from fresh berries, and therefore

> delivers

> > > far

> > > > more of the goji berry's bioactive polysaccharides. And so, we

> decided

> > to

> > > > see if our customers were really experiencing these reported benefits

> > or

> > > if

> > > > they were simply experiencing a placebo effect. We designed and

> > conducted

> > > a

> > > > 14 day randomized, double-blind, placebo controlled study and found

> > that

> > > our

> > > > customers were not crazy after all. The peer review judges at the

> > medical

> > > > journal that accepted and published our study had no problem with its

> > 14

> > > day

> > > > duration, or that it was conducted on FreeLife

> > > > employees. Our second and third studies were conducted for 30 days

> > each,

> > > > and on larger populations who had no knowledge of FreeLife or our

> > > products.

> > > > Other ongoing and planned studies are at 60 and 90 day duration.

> > > >

> > > > Q. These studies are very important to me and I would like to know

> when

> > > > they will be published and authenticated.

> > > >

> > > > A. They are undergoing the peer review process at two separate

> > journals,

> > > > which can take several month. We can't disclose the names of the

> > journals

> > > > because they have prohibited us from doing so, but we hope that both

> > > studies

> > > > will be accepted and published by the end of 2008.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Q. It would be helpful to conduct studies comparing the efficacy of

> > juice

> > > > from fresh Gou Qi ZI berries as opposed to reconstituted juice from

> > dried

> > > > berries.

> > > >

> > > > A. There's nothing wrong with using the dried gou qi zi, as has been

> > done

> > > > in China for thousands of years. But, as with any other fruit, we

> > believe

> > > > that fresh is better than dried. I always use the example of grapes

> vs.

> > > > raisins. When we know that the reason that red grapes are healthy

> > because

> > > of

> > > > the red pigment anthocyanin, how could one expect to get the same

> > benefit

> > > > from raisins or from raisin juice?

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Q. Can you tell me precisely where the Gou Qi Zi berry that Freelife

> > uses

> > > > comes from?

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > A. From the Yellow River floodplains of Ningxia Hui province in north

> > > > central China. There are also some great berries grown in Xinjiang

> > Uygur

> > > > province in the west, but our problem with using them is that we

> > wouldn't

> > > be

> > > > able to get the fresh berries transported to our juicing plant in

> Gansu

> > > > province quickly enough to prevent spoilage.

> > > >

> > > > Q. Why is the product called Himalayan Goji when it comes from

> Ningxia

> > > Hui

> > > > province in north central China, and Xinjiang Uygur in the Northwest.

> > > These

> > > > are nowhere near the Himalayas?

> > > >

> > > > A. The Himalayan people were the originators of a comprehensive

> > > > wellness-based system of medicine, which predates TCM. They taught

> > their

> > > > system to the visiting Chinese silk traders and scholars, who

> > ultimately

> > > > refined it. Several Lycium species were used by the Himalayans, and

> > > > according to legend, the Chinese visitors took samples home with them

> > and

> > > > planted them in their own valleys in northern and northwestern China.

> > The

> > > > name " Himalayan Goji Juice " was meant only to honor the discoverers

> of

> > > the

> > > > berry, but it was precisely because of confusion that we named our

> new

> > > > product " GoChi " .

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Q. I am confused about an apparent contradiction. From what you

> > > > represented to me, and from what the brochure " The pursuit of

> > perfection "

> > > > states, the berries used are freshly picked, cold pressed and packed

> in

> > > > aseptic containers before they are shipped overseas (not

> reconstituted!

> > )

> > > > Yet, in the first study by Amagase and Nance it states on page 404

> > under

> > > > Materials and Methods: " ...This test material is a liquid dietary

> > > supplement

> > > > containing reconstituted juice from fresh whole L. Barbarum fruit

> with

> > > 10%

> > > > excipients by volume. " So which is it?

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > A.The berries are freshly picked in Ningxia Hui, and are then shipped

> > to

> > > > our modern processing facility in nearby Gansu province. There, they

> > are

> > > > cold-pressed, after which about 50% of the water is removed by cold

> (36

> > –

> > > > 38ËšF), vacuum-assisted rotary thin-film evaporation. That gives us a

> > > > concentrated puree (of a consistency somewhat like thin tomato

> paste).

> > We

> > > do

> > > > this because the harvesting season is only 3 months long (July –

> > > September),

> > > > and we must purchase and prepare enough goji puree to last the rest

> of

> > > the

> > > > year (with accommodations for anticipated growth). Removing the water

> > > makes

> > > > it easier to store the puree under refrigerated conditions in

> > aseptically

> > > > sterilized totes. From a microbiological standpoint, removing the

> water

> > > also

> > > > reduces water activity, meaning that the puree is far less likely to

> > > harbor

> > > > bacteria and other microbes. Once we are ready for final processing,

> > the

> > > > puree is air-freighted to our bottling plant in the U.S., where it is

> > > > reconstituted (meaning that the exact amount of water that was

> removed

> > in

> > > > Gansu is now replenished) , and then it is blended with a small

> (<10%)

> > of

> > > > grape and pomegranate juice to ensure a uniform color (our berries

> are

> > > > picked for their polysaccharide content, not their color) and some

> > > natural

> > > > goji berry flavor (because once again, our berries have the highest

> LBP

> > > > content and not always the sweetest taste – the natural goji berry

> > flavor

> > > > ensures that every bottle will taste the same). Lastly, the product

> is

> > > > aseptically sterilized by a 4-second heat treatment (actually a

> shvitz

> > > with

> > > > live steam) that only coagulates microbial proteins and does not harm

> > the

> > > > delicate LBP content. We proved this during our process design and

> > > > validation phase, and we test every batch to ensure that our product

> is

> > > > pristine and fully potent.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Q. Would it not be indicated to publish a research study comparing

> the

> > > > potency of fresh Gou Qi Zi juice as opposed to reconstituted juice

> > > (assuming

> > > > that Freelife Go Chi juice is indeed fresh!).

> > > >

> > > > A. This is a very interesting idea, and if we had an unlimited

> research

> > > > budget, I would love to do a study comparing our product with those

> of

> > > our

> > > > competitors, all of whom are using dried berries. Unfortunately,

> there

> > is

> > > a

> > > > limit to the size of Ray and Kevin's wallet, but I can tell you this.

> > We

> > > > have analyzed every competing product that we have found on the

> market,

> > > > including Goji 100, Goji Gold, Goji Splash and the rest, and we have

> > not

> > > > found one that has even one-third of our LBP content. And we truly

> > > believe,

> > > > as do most researchers, that the power of goji lies in these amazing

> > > > glycopeptides known as Lycium barbarum polysaccharides (why Chinese

> > > > researchers named them polysaccharides is a mystery to me, especially

> > > when

> > > > it's the amino acids on the glycopeptide surface – and their strong

> > > > resemblance to microbial antigens – that initiates and promotes

> immune

> > > > response). We also believe that there is significant LBP degradation

> in

> > > > dried berries. Is

> > > > it enough to render them ineffective? No. The long history of use of

> > gou

> > > qi

> > > > zi in TCM is testimony to its effectiveness, but we are seeing with

> our

> > > > product is quite remarkable. In China, people take gou qi zi over a

> > > lifetime

> > > > to achieve moderate improvement in disease resistance and health. But

> > > we're

> > > > seeing dramatic short-term improvement, and perhaps that's the

> biggest

> > > > difference in using fresh berries – more polysaccharide power.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Q. Would you be able to share with me the comparative analysis of the

> > > > other Goji juice products?

> > > >

> > > > A. Sorry, but that information is highly confidential. Our philosophy

> > is

> > > > that we would rather promote our product based on its clinically

> > > > demonstrated benefit rather than by slamming our competitors.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Q. Can you explain in detail how the 90 day money back guarantee

> works.

> > I

> > > > understand that if not satisfied than when 90 days worth of bottles

> are

> > > > returned, the amount paid for them will be refunded in full, correct?

> > > > Well, first of all, I understand that this is based upon drinking 4

> oz

> > > > per day, but how many bottles does that mean? Also, what if two or

> > three

> > > > family members have been drinking the Go Chi juice, and none of them

> > are

> > > > satisfied, if all three return their bottles will they receive the

> same

> > > > refund?

> > > >

> > > > A. FreeLife's no risk guarantee is just that: If you are dissatisfied

> > > > with our product for any reason, return it within 90 days and receive

> a

> > > > 100% refund, even if the bottle is empty! If you join FreeLife and

> you

> > > > decide it is not for you even after 90 days, just let Freelife know

> > that

> > > you

> > > > wish to cancel. Freelife will " refund your money less a 10% handling

> > fee

> > > for

> > > > all resalable product and sales aids you purchased within one year of

> > > your

> > > > decision to cancel " .

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Q. What are the production costs that are involved, and why such an

> > > > enormous price per bottle. Please show me how what is charged is not

> a

> > > > reflection of a price which is inflated to benefit those higher up in

> > the

> > > > Multi-level marketing chain?

> > > >

> > > > A. The cost of our product is far higher than any other, as we are

> the

> > > > only company that is using fresh berries and not dried. The logistics

> > of

> > > > transporting and quickly processing our berries in rural northern

> China

> > > are

> > > > daunting, and are very costly. Also, we would ask that you consider

> the

> > > > millions of dollars that we are spending on clinical research and

> > > charitable

> > > > works. When compared to products such as Goji 100, we are

> competitively

> > > > priced. We feel no reason to compete with the low-grade goji products

> > > sold

> > > > at deep discount in Wal-Mart and other outlets. We truly believe that

> > > GoChi

> > > > provides outstanding value for the money, even at the full retail

> > price.

> > > > However, many of our Marketing Executives receive rebates and bonuses

> > > that

> > > > result in them paying little or nothing for their product. Our

> > > compensation

> > > > plan benefits everyone who chooses to pursue our business

> opportunity,

> > > and

> > > > it is by far the most generous pay plan in the industry.

> > > >

> > > > Q. Would it not be prudent for Freelife to donate some of their

> profits

> > > > back to the Chinese Medical community, such as to the TCM medical

> > > schools,

> > > > community clinics, research facilities, etc. The Chinese medical

> > > community

> > > > is an incredible potential ally, for sales referrals, and medical

> > > > validation. Yet, thus far, the community views GoChi with much

> > scepticism

> > > > and distrust. As I think I have indicated to you, if I believe in a

> > > product

> > > > and receive satisfactory answers to my question, I will promote it. I

> > can

> > > > assure you that the same is true industry wide, but good will needs

> to

> > be

> > > > cultivated. Comments?

> > > >

> > > > A. We have donate generously from our profits to our worldwide

> GojiKids

> > > > foundation, and a good amount of money has been spent in the areas of

> > > > Ningxia Hui and Gansu provinces where our berries are grown and

> juiced.

> > > > Perhaps some day we will be able to expand our charitable efforts

> > beyond

> > > > children's relief efforts, but for now, this is where we are

> dedicating

> > > our

> > > > dollars and our time.

> > > >

> > > > Q. It is customary for suppliers of medicinals, nutraceuticals, and

> > other

> > > > health products to offer licensed practitioners professional

> discounts.

> > > Why

> > > > is that not the policy of Freelife?

> > > >

> > > > A. The suppliers that you mention in the practitioner channel have a

> > > > completely different sales and marketing structure, and our plan is

> > > simply

> > > > not optimized to favor one class of customers at the expense of

> others.

> > > As

> > > > stated previously, we do offer many opportunities for product

> rebates,

> > > > volume-driven bonuses and substantial income. I'm just not the person

> > to

> > > > discuss them with you, as it's not my area of competence.

> > > >

> > > > Q. I am concerned with the hyperbole that has accompanied some of the

> > > sales

> > > > people I have come in contact with. Some of the claims and

> testimonials

> > > > border on health claims which contravene FDA regulations. Please see

> > this

> > > > link to the letter from the FDA.

> > > > http://www.fda. gov/cder/ warn/cyber/ 2006/CL226e. pdf How do you

> > > reconcile

> > > > this?

> > > >

> > > > A. I agree completely, and it bothers me tremendously that some of

> our

> > > > people are trying to market our product as some kind of miracle cure.

> > > This

> > > > letter was sent to a FreeLife distributor, not to FreeLife. We have a

> > > strict

> > > > policy against making illegal medical claims for our product, and we

> > > > terminate any distributor who fails to take down non-compliant

> websites

> > > or

> > > > who distributes non-compliant materials. This is why FreeLife has

> never

> > > > received a warning letter from FDA or a state Attorney-General. You

> > will

> > > not

> > > > find anything on a FreeLife website – past, present, or future –

that

> > > says

> > > > anything about using our products for the treatment or cure of any

> > > disease,

> > > > and we strongly recommend to our Marketing Executives that they speak

> > > only

> > > > of the 19 clinically demonstrated benefits of GoChi and avoid trying

> to

> > > > promote this product as some type of cure-all. We have no proof that

> it

> > > is

> > > > effective against any disease or condition, and we have no intention

> > > > of studying it in any of these areas. Why? Because, in the eyes of

> FDA,

> > > > that would re-classify our product as an unapproved new drug. It

> > > currently

> > > > costs about $600 million and 10 years to register a new drug in this

> > > > country, and you can't sell drugs through Network Marketing, so can

> you

> > > see

> > > > why we would never go that route? We do believe, though that GoChi is

> > the

> > > > best gou qi zi product on the planet, and we are certain that it will

> > be

> > > a

> > > > valuable addition to the armamentarium of any TCM practitioner. And,

> > > > although I wish that I could teach restraint to those who would have

> > you

> > > > believe that GoChi can grow new limbs, I hope that you will forgive

> > them

> > > and

> > > > understand that their exuberance arises from having seen remarkable

> > > changes

> > > > in themselves and in those dear to them as a result of using the

> > > > product. But this is not how we promote our product. GoChi has been

> > > > clinically demonstrated against placebo in a published randomized,

> > > > double-blind study to

> > > > significantly improve sleep, energy, mental sharpness, feelings of

> > calm,

> > > > contentment, good health and happiness, to help relieve stress and to

> > > > improve regularity. Blood tests have shown dramatic increases in the

> > > body's

> > > > ability to defend itself against toxic free radicals and to improve

> > > immune

> > > > defenses. Isn't that enough? If people's medical conditions are

> > improving

> > > > while taking GoChi, it's because they are becoming more

> > immunocompetent.

> > > The

> > > > immune system is G-d's miracle, not the goji berry. GoChi is simply

> the

> > > > humble facilitator that restores balance to immunity. That is

> entirely

> > > > consistent with the use of gou qi zi in Traditional .

> > > >

> > > > As many of you expressed, I too, harbor a natural scepticism towards

> > > > products that make spectacular claims. But, in my opinion, the tough

> > > > questions I asked were answered satisfactorily, and I will now

> > recommend

> > > > this product to those patients who are liver yin and blood, and

> Kidney

> > > yin

> > > > and jing vacuitous.

> > > > The product appears to have quality and the guarantee is reasonable.

> If

> > > > any of you are interested in it feel free to write or call me.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Sincerely,

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > www.traditionaljewi shmedicine. net

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

[Guest guest]

Kokko,

 

Here's what they say:

 

Though their original formula Himalayan Goji Juice contained less than one-tenth

of 1% of sodium benzoate and potassium sorbate...

  " GoChi is not perishable, because it contains absolutely no spoilage

organisms. In fact, it contains no microbes at all, thanks to our proprietary

aseptic sterilization process. Like any fresh food, it should be refrigerated

promptly after opening, should be kept tightly closed except for when it is

being poured, and should be consumed within 30 days of opening. "

 

 

 

 

 

--- On Mon, 8/25/08, <johnkokko wrote:

 

<johnkokko

Re: Follow up questions on Gou Qi Zi juice-GoChi : Enzyme loss

with Pasteurization

Chinese Medicine

Monday, August 25, 2008, 10:19 AM

 

 

 

 

 

 

Yehuda,

 

That's good to know.

But, how do they keep the product from bacterial and mold build-up without

preservatives?

Or are there some preservatives, since it isn't heat pasteurized?

K.

 

On Mon, Aug 25, 2008 at 9:49 AM, >wrote:

 

> Kokko,

>

> I goofed, and you're right. GoChi is NOT pasteurized or heat processed. I

> had assumed that it was, but when I check carefully one of their websites I

> saw the following:

>

> " Our goji berries are not heat processed or pasteurized like others on the

> market as this would destroy the delicate balance of glyconutrients, which

> is what makes this product superior to any other copy cat on the market. "

>

>

>

> www.traditionaljewi shmedicine. net

>

>

> --- On Mon, 8/25/08, <johnkokko (AT) gmail (DOT) com<johnkokko%40gmail. com>>

> wrote:

>

> <johnkokko (AT) gmail (DOT) com <johnkokko%40gmail. com>>

> Re: Follow up questions on Gou Qi Zi juice-GoChi : Enzyme

> loss with Pasteurization

> <Traditional_

Chinese_Medicine %40. com>

> Monday, August 25, 2008, 9:19 AM

>

>

> Yehuda,

>

> Thanks for bringing that up... Flash pasteurization is HEAT (70 degrees

> celsius) pasteurization,

> which denatures (deactivates) crucial enzymes which make the Gou qi zi

> traditionally effective.

> An example of a Gou qi zi enzyme are cerebrosides:

> which " was shown to protect liver cells from a toxic dry-cleaning chemical

> better than the well-known liver protectant milk thistle "

> http://www.smart- publications. com/overall_ health/goji_ berry.php

>

> This is also a good reason to not decoct the berry (heat deactivation of

> enzymes), but just to chew it.

>

> This is a disadvantage of the juices that you get at the store or through a

> MLM group.

> Better just to make a smoothie at home with the whole fruit (dried or not).

>

> Usually when the herbs are dried by traditional methods via farmers/herb

> salers, they are dried at lower heats (below pasteurization levels) or in

> the sun (below 70 degrees celsius = 158 degrees fahrenheit)

> The regulatory flash pasteurization by the Go-Chi company neutralizes their

> fresh picked puree process, in relation to enzymes,

> which are a crucial component to the Gou Qi zi's legendary powers.

> Furthermore, when the product sits on the shelf (unfrozen) for weeks to

> months, the antioxidant load also decreases.

>

> K.

>

> On Mon, Aug 25, 2008 at 1:02 AM, >wrote:

>

> > Hi Kokko,

> >

> > The point of the study was that drying significantly lowers the

> > berry anthocyanin content. Now you are contending that it is a stretch to

> > apply the fresh standards to Go Chi, which is essentially pureed and then

> > flash pasteurized. We will wait for the studies to be published, but my

> > point was that assuming that their process is able to sustain the benefit

> of

> > the fresh fruit, then it would be significantly more beneficial than

> dried

> > Gou Qi Zi.

> >

> > We'll see!

> >

> >

> >

> > www.traditionaljewi shmedicine. net

> >

> >

> > --- On Fri, 8/22/08, <johnkokko (AT) gmail (DOT) com<johnkokko% 40gmail.

> com>>

> > wrote:

> >

> > <johnkokko (AT) gmail (DOT) com <johnkokko%40gmail. com>>

> > Re: Follow up questions on Gou Qi Zi juice-GoChi

> > <Traditional_

> Chinese_Medicine %40. com>

>

> > Friday, August 22, 2008, 5:03 PM

> >

> > Yehuda,

> >

> > Thanks for the pubmed study and am excited to see the forthcoming

> studies.

> > Of course, any company would only publish results which would support the

> > sale of their own product,

> > so hopefully we can see the entire results, irrespective of the outcome,

> in

> > the name of science.

> >

> > If we go by content as the basis of our evaluation of the Go-chi

> > product,

> > The " Change of Total Anthocyanins in Blueberries and Their Antioxidant

> > Effect After Drying and Freezing " study that you linked for us

> > had these results:

> >

> > * " Table 1*

> >

> > Anthocyanin content in evaluated samples.

> > Blueberry samplesTotal anthocyaninsmg/ g dry matter

> > ------------ --------- ---------

> > Fresh blueberries (FR0)7.2 ± 0.5a**Fresh blueberries 2-week5.7 ±

> > 0.5abstorage

> > at 5°C (FR2)Untreated dried (UN)4.3 ± 0.1bcPretreated dried (PT)3.7 ±

> > 0.2cStored

> > frozen for 1 month (FZ1M)8.1 ± 0.1aStored frozen for 3 months (FZ3M)7.9 ±

> > 1.3a "

> >

> > Which one of these would the Go-chi product fall under? Once the product

> is

> > put on the shelf even after initial freezing, the anthocyanin level falls

> > to

> > levels of those of " Untreated Dried " .

> > 5.7 +/- .5 (if stored at 5 degrees celsius, which I don't believe the

> > Go-chi product is consistently stored at, because of transportation,

> > distribution to customers via vendors via outlets and storage) vs. 4.3

> +/-

> > .1 (if untreated and dried)

> > This anthocyanin content difference is not significant.

> > When the product becomes unfrozen and goes on the shelf for weeks to

> > months,

> > the anythocyanin level will drop to levels below that of 5.7 +/- .5

> > (according to the decreasing trend).

> >

> > This study was also ex vivo. But from the results, we can see that a

> > product which is not kept consistently frozen, does not have any

> > significant

> > increase in anthocyanins than a product which is untreated and dried (ie.

> > organic dried gou qi zi).

> >

> > So, for now, I'll stick to the dried gou qi zi.

> > If you can find some fresh-frozen gou qi zi berries, that's another

> story.

> >

> > Respectfully,

> > K.

> >

> > On Thu, Aug 21, 2008 at 10:47 AM, (AT) (DOT)

com>wrote:

> >

> > > Dear Kokko,

> > >

> > > Studies do show that drying decreases anthocyanin content in fruit.

> > > See:(http://www.pubmedce ntral.nih. gov/articlerende r.fcgi?artid=

> > 1082901

> >

> > > And again the problem I have with ORAC scoring is that it just measures

> > in

> > > vitro, not in vivo. The amount of grape and pomegranate juice added to

> Go

> > > Chi IMO is statistically insignificant (3%) and is added to enhance

> > flavor.

> > > Of course, this could present a problem to someone hypersensitive

> > > to pomegranates and/or grapes (I have two such patients!)

> > >

> > > Your concerns, I think, are one of the reasons that Freelife has

> > conducted

> > > other clinical studies, and I await the published results of the two

> > > additional studies submitted to peer-review journals which should be

> out

> > > before the end of the year which I referred to earlier: The immune

> study

> > > testing and comparing the significant difference of three markers in

> vivo

> > :

> > > lymphocytes, IL-2 and IgG, and the antioxidant study testing and

> > comparing,

> > > again, in vivo levels of SOD, GSH-Px and MDA.

> > >

> > > Concerning the cost, they claim that the costs involved in their

> > production

> > > are " higher than any other, as we are the only company that is using

> > fresh

> > > berries and not dried. The logistics of transporting and quickly

> > processing

> > > our berries in rural northern China are daunting.... " That doesn't

> seem

> > > unreasonable to me, assuming that what they are claiming is true. It is

> > > also telling, I think, that they are investing a significant amount of

> > > their budget to research and development in order to support their

> claims

> > > scientifically. I think that this also is unique for companies hawking

> a

> > > product.

> > >

> > > Again, the two additional studies have been presented and will be

> > published

> > > shortly, apparently. They say that other studies are forthcoming.

> > >

> > > As always, I appreciate your insightful questions and desire to

> reinforce

> > > scientific validation of our wonderful medicine.

> > >

> > > All the best,

> > >

> > >

> > > Yehuda

> > >

> > >

> > > Yehuda,

> > > Thanks for relaying this info to the group.

> > > I'm not convinced that the fresh puree that has been reconstituted,

> > > bottled,

> > > shipped and sitting on a non-refrigerated shelf is going to have more

> > > nutritional value than the dried fruit that can be eaten whole or

> > decocted

> > > immediately be a patient or practitioner.

> > > There was a clinical study done to compare the " Antioxidant capacity

> and

> > > phenolic content of grapes, sun-dried raisins, and golden raisins and

> > their

> > > effect on ex vivo serum antioxidant capacity. "

> > >

> > > " The objectives of this study were to compare the antioxidant capacity

> > and

> > > phenolic content of green Thompson seedless grapes (the most common

> > variety

> > > of grapes consumed in the United States), sun-dried raisins, and golden

> > > raisins (both produced from Thompson seedless grapes) and to observe

> the

> > > effects of their consumption over 4 weeks in 15 healthy human males

> with

> > a

> > > cross-over design. The oxygen radical absorbance capacity (ORAC)

> > (positive

> > > statistical significance for grapes after 2 weeks and golden raisins

> > after

> > > 3

> > > weeks), serum oxidation (positive statistical significance for golden

> > > raisin

> > > lag time after 4 weeks), total phenolics (no significant effects), and

> > > C-reactive protein (no significant effects) were monitored. "

> > >

> > > *The conclusions from the study were that, " Golden raisins had the

> > highest

> > > antioxidant capacity and phenolic content. " *

> > > http://cat.inist. fr/?aModele= afficheN & cpsidt=19186324

> > >

> > > So, more clinical research needs to be done to be convincing that the

> > > Go-chi

> > > juice is more beneficial than the traditional dried berries, especially

> > for

> > > the price differential.

> > > If raisins have similar or even higher antioxidant profiles than the

> > fresh

> > > grapes from which they were derived, why pay 10 times more for the same

> > > stuff in a bottle? (Since these fresh gou qi zi vs dried gou qi zi

> > studies

> > > have not been published, how can we truly know other than make

> > > speculations,

> > > as the Go-chi juice sales representative has done)

> > >

> > > Also, since grape and pomegranate juice are added to the puree for the

> > > Go-chi juice,

> > > doesn't that skew the results for the studies, since it has been long

> > > verified that grape and pomegranate juices are among the highest ORAC

> > > scored

> > > foods? That doesn't give credence to " Go-chi " juice, but the power of

> > > grape and pomegranate juices mixed with Gou qi zi (which has already

> been

> > > validated by traditional use).

> > >

> > > What if I chewed dried gou qi zi mixing it with my salivary enzymes,

> > > instead

> > > of having a processing blade slice it and then have it take weeks to

> > months

> > > to get to my mouth?

> > >

> > > Without this evidence, it would be difficult for me to sell the

> " Go-chi "

> > > product instead of giving my patients a pound of Organic dried Gou qi

> zi.

> > >

> > > Respectfully,

> > > K.

> > >

> > > On Thu, Aug 21, 2008 at 4:34 AM, (AT) (DOT)

com>wrote:

> > >

> > > >

> > > > Dear colleagues,

> > > >

> > > > About two weeks ago, I wrote to you asking for your feedback

> concerning

> > > > Gou Qi Zi juice sold as GoChi by Freelife. I had a number of

> questions

> > > and

> > > > doubts about the product, and as I expressed, the concept of

> > multi-level

> > > > marketing I find abhorrent. I took your questions as well as my own,

> > and

> > > > presented them to the Freelife's chief products officer. Below are my

> > > > questions and the answers I received:

> > > >

> > > > Q.It would be wise to have research done not by an employee of

> > Freelife.

> > > > It gives the impression of being jaded.

> > > >

> > > > A. Like all peer-reviewed journals, the Journal of Alternative and

> > > > Complementary Medicine blinds their expert judges, so they had no

> idea

> > > that

> > > > the study was performed by the eminent Dr. Amagase and Dr. Nance.

> > > Regardless

> > > > of who designs or conducts a study, the fairness and honesty are

> > > guaranteed

> > > > by randomizing, double-blinding and placebo control. In our second

> and

> > > third

> > > > studies, Dr. Amagase was a corresponding author and did not conduct

> the

> > > > study. We have other unreleased studies that have been conducted

> around

> > > the

> > > > world by members of our independent Scientific Advisory Board.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Q. To be really considered seriously by the scientific community,

> > studies

> > > > should certainly be for longer than two weeks and they should be

> > > conducted

> > > > by objective third parties who do not have a vested interest in their

> > > > validation.

> > > >

> > > > A. We respectfully disagree. For years, our customers had been

> telling

> > us

> > > > that they were getting remarkable results from our product within two

> > > weeks

> > > > or less. Frankly, we didn't believe them because there was nothing in

> > the

> > > > history of Traditional to support this. But, then

> > again,

> > > > goji's history in TCM has been in the form of dried berries, and our

> > > product

> > > > is the first ever to be made from fresh berries, and therefore

> delivers

> > > far

> > > > more of the goji berry's bioactive polysaccharides. And so, we

> decided

> > to

> > > > see if our customers were really experiencing these reported benefits

> > or

> > > if

> > > > they were simply experiencing a placebo effect. We designed and

> > conducted

> > > a

> > > > 14 day randomized, double-blind, placebo controlled study and found

> > that

> > > our

> > > > customers were not crazy after all. The peer review judges at the

> > medical

> > > > journal that accepted and published our study had no problem with its

> > 14

> > > day

> > > > duration, or that it was conducted on FreeLife

> > > > employees. Our second and third studies were conducted for 30 days

> > each,

> > > > and on larger populations who had no knowledge of FreeLife or our

> > > products.

> > > > Other ongoing and planned studies are at 60 and 90 day duration.

> > > >

> > > > Q. These studies are very important to me and I would like to know

> when

> > > > they will be published and authenticated.

> > > >

> > > > A. They are undergoing the peer review process at two separate

> > journals,

> > > > which can take several month. We can't disclose the names of the

> > journals

> > > > because they have prohibited us from doing so, but we hope that both

> > > studies

> > > > will be accepted and published by the end of 2008.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Q. It would be helpful to conduct studies comparing the efficacy of

> > juice

> > > > from fresh Gou Qi ZI berries as opposed to reconstituted juice from

> > dried

> > > > berries.

> > > >

> > > > A. There's nothing wrong with using the dried gou qi zi, as has been

> > done

> > > > in China for thousands of years. But, as with any other fruit, we

> > believe

> > > > that fresh is better than dried. I always use the example of grapes

> vs.

> > > > raisins. When we know that the reason that red grapes are healthy

> > because

> > > of

> > > > the red pigment anthocyanin, how could one expect to get the same

> > benefit

> > > > from raisins or from raisin juice?

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Q. Can you tell me precisely where the Gou Qi Zi berry that Freelife

> > uses

> > > > comes from?

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > A. From the Yellow River floodplains of Ningxia Hui province in north

> > > > central China. There are also some great berries grown in Xinjiang

> > Uygur

> > > > province in the west, but our problem with using them is that we

> > wouldn't

> > > be

> > > > able to get the fresh berries transported to our juicing plant in

> Gansu

> > > > province quickly enough to prevent spoilage.

> > > >

> > > > Q. Why is the product called Himalayan Goji when it comes from

> Ningxia

> > > Hui

> > > > province in north central China, and Xinjiang Uygur in the Northwest.

> > > These

> > > > are nowhere near the Himalayas?

> > > >

> > > > A. The Himalayan people were the originators of a comprehensive

> > > > wellness-based system of medicine, which predates TCM. They taught

> > their

> > > > system to the visiting Chinese silk traders and scholars, who

> > ultimately

> > > > refined it. Several Lycium species were used by the Himalayans, and

> > > > according to legend, the Chinese visitors took samples home with them

> > and

> > > > planted them in their own valleys in northern and northwestern China.

> > The

> > > > name " Himalayan Goji Juice " was meant only to honor the discoverers

> of

> > > the

> > > > berry, but it was precisely because of confusion that we named our

> new

> > > > product " GoChi " .

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Q. I am confused about an apparent contradiction. From what you

> > > > represented to me, and from what the brochure " The pursuit of

> > perfection "

> > > > states, the berries used are freshly picked, cold pressed and packed

> in

> > > > aseptic containers before they are shipped overseas (not

> reconstituted!

> > )

> > > > Yet, in the first study by Amagase and Nance it states on page 404

> > under

> > > > Materials and Methods: " ...This test material is a liquid dietary

> > > supplement

> > > > containing reconstituted juice from fresh whole L. Barbarum fruit

> with

> > > 10%

> > > > excipients by volume. " So which is it?

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > A.The berries are freshly picked in Ningxia Hui, and are then shipped

> > to

> > > > our modern processing facility in nearby Gansu province. There, they

> > are

> > > > cold-pressed, after which about 50% of the water is removed by cold

> (36

> > –

> > > > 38ËšF), vacuum-assisted rotary thin-film evaporation. That gives us a

> > > > concentrated puree (of a consistency somewhat like thin tomato

> paste).

> > We

> > > do

> > > > this because the harvesting season is only 3 months long (July –

> > > September),

> > > > and we must purchase and prepare enough goji puree to last the rest

> of

> > > the

> > > > year (with accommodations for anticipated growth). Removing the water

> > > makes

> > > > it easier to store the puree under refrigerated conditions in

> > aseptically

> > > > sterilized totes. From a microbiological standpoint, removing the

> water

> > > also

> > > > reduces water activity, meaning that the puree is far less likely to

> > > harbor

> > > > bacteria and other microbes. Once we are ready for final processing,

> > the

> > > > puree is air-freighted to our bottling plant in the U.S., where it is

> > > > reconstituted (meaning that the exact amount of water that was

> removed

> > in

> > > > Gansu is now replenished) , and then it is blended with a small

> (<10%)

> > of

> > > > grape and pomegranate juice to ensure a uniform color (our berries

> are

> > > > picked for their polysaccharide content, not their color) and some

> > > natural

> > > > goji berry flavor (because once again, our berries have the highest

> LBP

> > > > content and not always the sweetest taste – the natural goji berry

> > flavor

> > > > ensures that every bottle will taste the same). Lastly, the product

> is

> > > > aseptically sterilized by a 4-second heat treatment (actually a

> shvitz

> > > with

> > > > live steam) that only coagulates microbial proteins and does not harm

> > the

> > > > delicate LBP content. We proved this during our process design and

> > > > validation phase, and we test every batch to ensure that our product

> is

> > > > pristine and fully potent.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Q. Would it not be indicated to publish a research study comparing

> the

> > > > potency of fresh Gou Qi Zi juice as opposed to reconstituted juice

> > > (assuming

> > > > that Freelife Go Chi juice is indeed fresh!).

> > > >

> > > > A. This is a very interesting idea, and if we had an unlimited

> research

> > > > budget, I would love to do a study comparing our product with those

> of

> > > our

> > > > competitors, all of whom are using dried berries. Unfortunately,

> there

> > is

> > > a

> > > > limit to the size of Ray and Kevin's wallet, but I can tell you this.

> > We

> > > > have analyzed every competing product that we have found on the

> market,

> > > > including Goji 100, Goji Gold, Goji Splash and the rest, and we have

> > not

> > > > found one that has even one-third of our LBP content. And we truly

> > > believe,

> > > > as do most researchers, that the power of goji lies in these amazing

> > > > glycopeptides known as Lycium barbarum polysaccharides (why Chinese

> > > > researchers named them polysaccharides is a mystery to me, especially

> > > when

> > > > it's the amino acids on the glycopeptide surface – and their strong

> > > > resemblance to microbial antigens – that initiates and promotes

> immune

> > > > response). We also believe that there is significant LBP degradation

> in

> > > > dried berries. Is

> > > > it enough to render them ineffective? No. The long history of use of

> > gou

> > > qi

> > > > zi in TCM is testimony to its effectiveness, but we are seeing with

> our

> > > > product is quite remarkable. In China, people take gou qi zi over a

> > > lifetime

> > > > to achieve moderate improvement in disease resistance and health. But

> > > we're

> > > > seeing dramatic short-term improvement, and perhaps that's the

> biggest

> > > > difference in using fresh berries – more polysaccharide power.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Q. Would you be able to share with me the comparative analysis of the

> > > > other Goji juice products?

> > > >

> > > > A. Sorry, but that information is highly confidential. Our philosophy

> > is

> > > > that we would rather promote our product based on its clinically

> > > > demonstrated benefit rather than by slamming our competitors.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Q. Can you explain in detail how the 90 day money back guarantee

> works.

> > I

> > > > understand that if not satisfied than when 90 days worth of bottles

> are

> > > > returned, the amount paid for them will be refunded in full, correct?

> > > > Well, first of all, I understand that this is based upon drinking 4

> oz

> > > > per day, but how many bottles does that mean? Also, what if two or

> > three

> > > > family members have been drinking the Go Chi juice, and none of them

> > are

> > > > satisfied, if all three return their bottles will they receive the

> same

> > > > refund?

> > > >

> > > > A. FreeLife's no risk guarantee is just that: If you are dissatisfied

> > > > with our product for any reason, return it within 90 days and receive

> a

> > > > 100% refund, even if the bottle is empty! If you join FreeLife and

> you

> > > > decide it is not for you even after 90 days, just let Freelife know

> > that

> > > you

> > > > wish to cancel. Freelife will " refund your money less a 10% handling

> > fee

> > > for

> > > > all resalable product and sales aids you purchased within one year of

> > > your

> > > > decision to cancel " .

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Q. What are the production costs that are involved, and why such an

> > > > enormous price per bottle. Please show me how what is charged is not

> a

> > > > reflection of a price which is inflated to benefit those higher up in

> > the

> > > > Multi-level marketing chain?

> > > >

> > > > A. The cost of our product is far higher than any other, as we are

> the

> > > > only company that is using fresh berries and not dried. The logistics

> > of

> > > > transporting and quickly processing our berries in rural northern

> China

> > > are

> > > > daunting, and are very costly. Also, we would ask that you consider

> the

> > > > millions of dollars that we are spending on clinical research and

> > > charitable

> > > > works. When compared to products such as Goji 100, we are

> competitively

> > > > priced. We feel no reason to compete with the low-grade goji products

> > > sold

> > > > at deep discount in Wal-Mart and other outlets. We truly believe that

> > > GoChi

> > > > provides outstanding value for the money, even at the full retail

> > price.

> > > > However, many of our Marketing Executives receive rebates and bonuses

> > > that

> > > > result in them paying little or nothing for their product. Our

> > > compensation

> > > > plan benefits everyone who chooses to pursue our business

> opportunity,

> > > and

> > > > it is by far the most generous pay plan in the industry.

> > > >

> > > > Q. Would it not be prudent for Freelife to donate some of their

> profits

> > > > back to the Chinese Medical community, such as to the TCM medical

> > > schools,

> > > > community clinics, research facilities, etc. The Chinese medical

> > > community

> > > > is an incredible potential ally, for sales referrals, and medical

> > > > validation. Yet, thus far, the community views GoChi with much

> > scepticism

> > > > and distrust. As I think I have indicated to you, if I believe in a

> > > product

> > > > and receive satisfactory answers to my question, I will promote it. I

> > can

> > > > assure you that the same is true industry wide, but good will needs

> to

> > be

> > > > cultivated. Comments?

> > > >

> > > > A. We have donate generously from our profits to our worldwide

> GojiKids

> > > > foundation, and a good amount of money has been spent in the areas of

> > > > Ningxia Hui and Gansu provinces where our berries are grown and

> juiced.

> > > > Perhaps some day we will be able to expand our charitable efforts

> > beyond

> > > > children's relief efforts, but for now, this is where we are

> dedicating

> > > our

> > > > dollars and our time.

> > > >

> > > > Q. It is customary for suppliers of medicinals, nutraceuticals, and

> > other

> > > > health products to offer licensed practitioners professional

> discounts.

> > > Why

> > > > is that not the policy of Freelife?

> > > >

> > > > A. The suppliers that you mention in the practitioner channel have a

> > > > completely different sales and marketing structure, and our plan is

> > > simply

> > > > not optimized to favor one class of customers at the expense of

> others.

> > > As

> > > > stated previously, we do offer many opportunities for product

> rebates,

> > > > volume-driven bonuses and substantial income. I'm just not the person

> > to

> > > > discuss them with you, as it's not my area of competence.

> > > >

> > > > Q. I am concerned with the hyperbole that has accompanied some of the

> > > sales

> > > > people I have come in contact with. Some of the claims and

> testimonials

> > > > border on health claims which contravene FDA regulations. Please see

> > this

> > > > link to the letter from the FDA.

> > > > http://www.fda. gov/cder/ warn/cyber/ 2006/CL226e. pdf How do you

> > > reconcile

> > > > this?

> > > >

> > > > A. I agree completely, and it bothers me tremendously that some of

> our

> > > > people are trying to market our product as some kind of miracle cure.

> > > This

> > > > letter was sent to a FreeLife distributor, not to FreeLife. We have a

> > > strict

> > > > policy against making illegal medical claims for our product, and we

> > > > terminate any distributor who fails to take down non-compliant

> websites

> > > or

> > > > who distributes non-compliant materials. This is why FreeLife has

> never

> > > > received a warning letter from FDA or a state Attorney-General. You

> > will

> > > not

> > > > find anything on a FreeLife website – past, present, or future –

that

> > > says

> > > > anything about using our products for the treatment or cure of any

> > > disease,

> > > > and we strongly recommend to our Marketing Executives that they speak

> > > only

> > > > of the 19 clinically demonstrated benefits of GoChi and avoid trying

> to

> > > > promote this product as some type of cure-all. We have no proof that

> it

> > > is

> > > > effective against any disease or condition, and we have no intention

> > > > of studying it in any of these areas. Why? Because, in the eyes of

> FDA,

> > > > that would re-classify our product as an unapproved new drug. It

> > > currently

> > > > costs about $600 million and 10 years to register a new drug in this

> > > > country, and you can't sell drugs through Network Marketing, so can

> you

> > > see

> > > > why we would never go that route? We do believe, though that GoChi is

> > the

> > > > best gou qi zi product on the planet, and we are certain that it will

> > be

> > > a

> > > > valuable addition to the armamentarium of any TCM practitioner. And,

> > > > although I wish that I could teach restraint to those who would have

> > you

> > > > believe that GoChi can grow new limbs, I hope that you will forgive

> > them

> > > and

> > > > understand that their exuberance arises from having seen remarkable

> > > changes

> > > > in themselves and in those dear to them as a result of using the

> > > > product. But this is not how we promote our product. GoChi has been

> > > > clinically demonstrated against placebo in a published randomized,

> > > > double-blind study to

> > > > significantly improve sleep, energy, mental sharpness, feelings of

> > calm,

> > > > contentment, good health and happiness, to help relieve stress and to

> > > > improve regularity. Blood tests have shown dramatic increases in the

> > > body's

> > > > ability to defend itself against toxic free radicals and to improve

> > > immune

> > > > defenses. Isn't that enough? If people's medical conditions are

> > improving

> > > > while taking GoChi, it's because they are becoming more

> > immunocompetent.

> > > The

> > > > immune system is G-d's miracle, not the goji berry. GoChi is simply

> the

> > > > humble facilitator that restores balance to immunity. That is

> entirely

> > > > consistent with the use of gou qi zi in Traditional .

> > > >

> > > > As many of you expressed, I too, harbor a natural scepticism towards

> > > > products that make spectacular claims. But, in my opinion, the tough

> > > > questions I asked were answered satisfactorily, and I will now

> > recommend

> > > > this product to those patients who are liver yin and blood, and

> Kidney

> > > yin

> > > > and jing vacuitous.

> > > > The product appears to have quality and the guarantee is reasonable.

> If

> > > > any of you are interested in it feel free to write or call me.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Sincerely,

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > www.traditionaljewi shmedicine. net

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

[Guest guest]

Yehuda,

 

Could you ask them to elaborate on their proprietary aseptic sterilization

process?

Is the product irradiated? If this is proprietary information, will they

keep that secret?

How does their sterilization process target only microbes and bacteria and

keep antioxidants and enzymes intact?

 

K.

 

 

On Mon, Aug 25, 2008 at 10:46 AM, wrote:

 

> Kokko,

>

> Here's what they say:

>

> Though their original formula Himalayan Goji Juice contained less than

> one-tenth of 1% of sodium benzoate and potassium sorbate...

> " GoChi is not perishable, because it contains absolutely no spoilage

> organisms. In fact, it contains no microbes at all, thanks to our

> proprietary aseptic sterilization process. Like any fresh food, it should be

> refrigerated promptly after opening, should be kept tightly closed except

> for when it is being poured, and should be consumed within 30 days of

> opening. "

>

>

>

>

>

>

> --- On Mon, 8/25/08, <johnkokko<johnkokko%40gmail.com>>

> wrote:

>

> <johnkokko <johnkokko%40gmail.com>>

> Re: Follow up questions on Gou Qi Zi juice-GoChi : Enzyme

> loss with Pasteurization

> To:

Chinese Medicine <Chinese Medicine%40yaho\

ogroups.com>

> Monday, August 25, 2008, 10:19 AM

>

> Yehuda,

>

> That's good to know.

> But, how do they keep the product from bacterial and mold build-up without

> preservatives?

> Or are there some preservatives, since it isn't heat pasteurized?

> K.

>

> On Mon, Aug 25, 2008 at 9:49 AM, wrote:

>

> > Kokko,

> >

> > I goofed, and you're right. GoChi is NOT pasteurized or heat processed. I

> > had assumed that it was, but when I check carefully one of their websites

> I

> > saw the following:

> >

> > " Our goji berries are not heat processed or pasteurized like others on

> the

> > market as this would destroy the delicate balance of glyconutrients,

> which

> > is what makes this product superior to any other copy cat on the market. "

> >

> >

> >

> > www.traditionaljewi shmedicine. net

> >

> >

> > --- On Mon, 8/25/08, <johnkokko (AT) gmail (DOT) com<johnkokko%40gmail.

> com>>

> > wrote:

> >

> > <johnkokko (AT) gmail (DOT) com <johnkokko%40gmail. com>>

> > Re: Follow up questions on Gou Qi Zi juice-GoChi : Enzyme

> > loss with Pasteurization

> > <Traditional_

> Chinese_Medicine %40. com>

> > Monday, August 25, 2008, 9:19 AM

> >

> >

> > Yehuda,

> >

> > Thanks for bringing that up... Flash pasteurization is HEAT (70 degrees

> > celsius) pasteurization,

> > which denatures (deactivates) crucial enzymes which make the Gou qi zi

> > traditionally effective.

> > An example of a Gou qi zi enzyme are cerebrosides:

> > which " was shown to protect liver cells from a toxic dry-cleaning

> chemical

> > better than the well-known liver protectant milk thistle "

> > http://www.smart- publications. com/overall_ health/goji_ berry.php

> >

> > This is also a good reason to not decoct the berry (heat deactivation of

> > enzymes), but just to chew it.

> >

> > This is a disadvantage of the juices that you get at the store or through

> a

> > MLM group.

> > Better just to make a smoothie at home with the whole fruit (dried or

> not).

> >

> > Usually when the herbs are dried by traditional methods via farmers/herb

> > salers, they are dried at lower heats (below pasteurization levels) or in

> > the sun (below 70 degrees celsius = 158 degrees fahrenheit)

> > The regulatory flash pasteurization by the Go-Chi company neutralizes

> their

> > fresh picked puree process, in relation to enzymes,

> > which are a crucial component to the Gou Qi zi's legendary powers.

> > Furthermore, when the product sits on the shelf (unfrozen) for weeks to

> > months, the antioxidant load also decreases.

> >

> > K.

> >

> > On Mon, Aug 25, 2008 at 1:02 AM, wrote:

> >

> > > Hi Kokko,

> > >

> > > The point of the study was that drying significantly lowers the

> > > berry anthocyanin content. Now you are contending that it is a stretch

> to

> > > apply the fresh standards to Go Chi, which is essentially pureed and

> then

> > > flash pasteurized. We will wait for the studies to be published, but my

> > > point was that assuming that their process is able to sustain the

> benefit

> > of

> > > the fresh fruit, then it would be significantly more beneficial than

> > dried

> > > Gou Qi Zi.

> > >

> > > We'll see!

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > www.traditionaljewi shmedicine. net

> > >

> > >

> > > --- On Fri, 8/22/08, <johnkokko (AT) gmail (DOT) com<johnkokko%

> 40gmail.

> > com>>

> > > wrote:

> > >

> > > <johnkokko (AT) gmail (DOT) com <johnkokko%40gmail. com>>

> > > Re: Follow up questions on Gou Qi Zi juice-GoChi

> > > <Traditional_

> > Chinese_Medicine %40. com>

> >

> > > Friday, August 22, 2008, 5:03 PM

> > >

> > > Yehuda,

> > >

> > > Thanks for the pubmed study and am excited to see the forthcoming

> > studies.

> > > Of course, any company would only publish results which would support

> the

> > > sale of their own product,

> > > so hopefully we can see the entire results, irrespective of the

> outcome,

> > in

> > > the name of science.

> > >

> > > If we go by content as the basis of our evaluation of the Go-chi

> > > product,

> > > The " Change of Total Anthocyanins in Blueberries and Their Antioxidant

> > > Effect After Drying and Freezing " study that you linked for us

> > > had these results:

> > >

> > > * " Table 1*

> > >

> > > Anthocyanin content in evaluated samples.

> > > Blueberry samplesTotal anthocyaninsmg/ g dry matter

> > > ------------ --------- ---------

> > > Fresh blueberries (FR0)7.2 ± 0.5a**Fresh blueberries 2-week5.7 ±

> > > 0.5abstorage

> > > at 5°C (FR2)Untreated dried (UN)4.3 ± 0.1bcPretreated dried (PT)3.7 ±

> > > 0.2cStored

> > > frozen for 1 month (FZ1M)8.1 ± 0.1aStored frozen for 3 months (FZ3M)7.9

> ±

> > > 1.3a "

> > >

> > > Which one of these would the Go-chi product fall under? Once the

> product

> > is

> > > put on the shelf even after initial freezing, the anthocyanin level

> falls

> > > to

> > > levels of those of " Untreated Dried " .

> > > 5.7 +/- .5 (if stored at 5 degrees celsius, which I don't believe the

> > > Go-chi product is consistently stored at, because of transportation,

> > > distribution to customers via vendors via outlets and storage) vs. 4.3

> > +/-

> > > .1 (if untreated and dried)

> > > This anthocyanin content difference is not significant.

> > > When the product becomes unfrozen and goes on the shelf for weeks to

> > > months,

> > > the anythocyanin level will drop to levels below that of 5.7 +/- .5

> > > (according to the decreasing trend).

> > >

> > > This study was also ex vivo. But from the results, we can see that a

> > > product which is not kept consistently frozen, does not have any

> > > significant

> > > increase in anthocyanins than a product which is untreated and dried

> (ie.

> > > organic dried gou qi zi).

> > >

> > > So, for now, I'll stick to the dried gou qi zi.

> > > If you can find some fresh-frozen gou qi zi berries, that's another

> > story.

> > >

> > > Respectfully,

> > > K.

> > >

> > > On Thu, Aug 21, 2008 at 10:47 AM, yehuda frischman

<wrote:

> > >

> > > > Dear Kokko,

> > > >

> > > > Studies do show that drying decreases anthocyanin content in fruit.

> > > > See:(http://www.pubmedce ntral.nih. gov/articlerende r.fcgi?artid=

> > > 1082901

> > >

> > > > And again the problem I have with ORAC scoring is that it just

> measures

> > > in

> > > > vitro, not in vivo. The amount of grape and pomegranate juice added

> to

> > Go

> > > > Chi IMO is statistically insignificant (3%) and is added to enhance

> > > flavor.

> > > > Of course, this could present a problem to someone hypersensitive

> > > > to pomegranates and/or grapes (I have two such patients!)

> > > >

> > > > Your concerns, I think, are one of the reasons that Freelife has

> > > conducted

> > > > other clinical studies, and I await the published results of the two

> > > > additional studies submitted to peer-review journals which should be

> > out

> > > > before the end of the year which I referred to earlier: The immune

> > study

> > > > testing and comparing the significant difference of three markers in

> > vivo

> > > :

> > > > lymphocytes, IL-2 and IgG, and the antioxidant study testing and

> > > comparing,

> > > > again, in vivo levels of SOD, GSH-Px and MDA.

> > > >

> > > > Concerning the cost, they claim that the costs involved in their

> > > production

> > > > are " higher than any other, as we are the only company that is using

> > > fresh

> > > > berries and not dried. The logistics of transporting and quickly

> > > processing

> > > > our berries in rural northern China are daunting.... " That doesn't

> > seem

> > > > unreasonable to me, assuming that what they are claiming is true. It

> is

> > > > also telling, I think, that they are investing a significant amount

> of

> > > > their budget to research and development in order to support their

> > claims

> > > > scientifically. I think that this also is unique for companies

> hawking

> > a

> > > > product.

> > > >

> > > > Again, the two additional studies have been presented and will be

> > > published

> > > > shortly, apparently. They say that other studies are forthcoming.

> > > >

> > > > As always, I appreciate your insightful questions and desire to

> > reinforce

> > > > scientific validation of our wonderful medicine.

> > > >

> > > > All the best,

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Yehuda

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Yehuda,

> > > > Thanks for relaying this info to the group.

> > > > I'm not convinced that the fresh puree that has been reconstituted,

> > > > bottled,

> > > > shipped and sitting on a non-refrigerated shelf is going to have more

> > > > nutritional value than the dried fruit that can be eaten whole or

> > > decocted

> > > > immediately be a patient or practitioner.

> > > > There was a clinical study done to compare the " Antioxidant capacity

> > and

> > > > phenolic content of grapes, sun-dried raisins, and golden raisins and

> > > their

> > > > effect on ex vivo serum antioxidant capacity. "

> > > >

> > > > " The objectives of this study were to compare the antioxidant

> capacity

> > > and

> > > > phenolic content of green Thompson seedless grapes (the most common

> > > variety

> > > > of grapes consumed in the United States), sun-dried raisins, and

> golden

> > > > raisins (both produced from Thompson seedless grapes) and to observe

> > the

> > > > effects of their consumption over 4 weeks in 15 healthy human males

> > with

> > > a

> > > > cross-over design. The oxygen radical absorbance capacity (ORAC)

> > > (positive

> > > > statistical significance for grapes after 2 weeks and golden raisins

> > > after

> > > > 3

> > > > weeks), serum oxidation (positive statistical significance for golden

> > > > raisin

> > > > lag time after 4 weeks), total phenolics (no significant effects),

> and

> > > > C-reactive protein (no significant effects) were monitored. "

> > > >

> > > > *The conclusions from the study were that, " Golden raisins had the

> > > highest

> > > > antioxidant capacity and phenolic content. " *

> > > > http://cat.inist. fr/?aModele= afficheN & cpsidt=19186324

> > > >

> > > > So, more clinical research needs to be done to be convincing that the

> > > > Go-chi

> > > > juice is more beneficial than the traditional dried berries,

> especially

> > > for

> > > > the price differential.

> > > > If raisins have similar or even higher antioxidant profiles than the

> > > fresh

> > > > grapes from which they were derived, why pay 10 times more for the

> same

> > > > stuff in a bottle? (Since these fresh gou qi zi vs dried gou qi zi

> > > studies

> > > > have not been published, how can we truly know other than make

> > > > speculations,

> > > > as the Go-chi juice sales representative has done)

> > > >

> > > > Also, since grape and pomegranate juice are added to the puree for

> the

> > > > Go-chi juice,

> > > > doesn't that skew the results for the studies, since it has been long

> > > > verified that grape and pomegranate juices are among the highest ORAC

> > > > scored

> > > > foods? That doesn't give credence to " Go-chi " juice, but the power of

> > > > grape and pomegranate juices mixed with Gou qi zi (which has already

> > been

> > > > validated by traditional use).

> > > >

> > > > What if I chewed dried gou qi zi mixing it with my salivary enzymes,

> > > > instead

> > > > of having a processing blade slice it and then have it take weeks to

> > > months

> > > > to get to my mouth?

> > > >

> > > > Without this evidence, it would be difficult for me to sell the

> > " Go-chi "

> > > > product instead of giving my patients a pound of Organic dried Gou qi

> > zi.

> > > >

> > > > Respectfully,

> > > > K.

> > > >

> > > > On Thu, Aug 21, 2008 at 4:34 AM, yehuda frischman

<wrote:

> > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Dear colleagues,

> > > > >

> > > > > About two weeks ago, I wrote to you asking for your feedback

> > concerning

> > > > > Gou Qi Zi juice sold as GoChi by Freelife. I had a number of

> > questions

> > > > and

> > > > > doubts about the product, and as I expressed, the concept of

> > > multi-level

> > > > > marketing I find abhorrent. I took your questions as well as my

> own,

> > > and

> > > > > presented them to the Freelife's chief products officer. Below are

> my

> > > > > questions and the answers I received:

> > > > >

> > > > > Q.It would be wise to have research done not by an employee of

> > > Freelife.

> > > > > It gives the impression of being jaded.

> > > > >

> > > > > A. Like all peer-reviewed journals, the Journal of Alternative and

> > > > > Complementary Medicine blinds their expert judges, so they had no

> > idea

> > > > that

> > > > > the study was performed by the eminent Dr. Amagase and Dr. Nance.

> > > > Regardless

> > > > > of who designs or conducts a study, the fairness and honesty are

> > > > guaranteed

> > > > > by randomizing, double-blinding and placebo control. In our second

> > and

> > > > third

> > > > > studies, Dr. Amagase was a corresponding author and did not conduct

> > the

> > > > > study. We have other unreleased studies that have been conducted

> > around

> > > > the

> > > > > world by members of our independent Scientific Advisory Board.

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Q. To be really considered seriously by the scientific community,

> > > studies

> > > > > should certainly be for longer than two weeks and they should be

> > > > conducted

> > > > > by objective third parties who do not have a vested interest in

> their

> > > > > validation.

> > > > >

> > > > > A. We respectfully disagree. For years, our customers had been

> > telling

> > > us

> > > > > that they were getting remarkable results from our product within

> two

> > > > weeks

> > > > > or less. Frankly, we didn't believe them because there was nothing

> in

> > > the

> > > > > history of Traditional to support this. But, then

> > > again,

> > > > > goji's history in TCM has been in the form of dried berries, and

> our

> > > > product

> > > > > is the first ever to be made from fresh berries, and therefore

> > delivers

> > > > far

> > > > > more of the goji berry's bioactive polysaccharides. And so, we

> > decided

> > > to

> > > > > see if our customers were really experiencing these reported

> benefits

> > > or

> > > > if

> > > > > they were simply experiencing a placebo effect. We designed and

> > > conducted

> > > > a

> > > > > 14 day randomized, double-blind, placebo controlled study and found

> > > that

> > > > our

> > > > > customers were not crazy after all. The peer review judges at the

> > > medical

> > > > > journal that accepted and published our study had no problem with

> its

> > > 14

> > > > day

> > > > > duration, or that it was conducted on FreeLife

> > > > > employees. Our second and third studies were conducted for 30 days

> > > each,

> > > > > and on larger populations who had no knowledge of FreeLife or our

> > > > products.

> > > > > Other ongoing and planned studies are at 60 and 90 day duration.

> > > > >

> > > > > Q. These studies are very important to me and I would like to know

> > when

> > > > > they will be published and authenticated.

> > > > >

> > > > > A. They are undergoing the peer review process at two separate

> > > journals,

> > > > > which can take several month. We can't disclose the names of the

> > > journals

> > > > > because they have prohibited us from doing so, but we hope that

> both

> > > > studies

> > > > > will be accepted and published by the end of 2008.

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Q. It would be helpful to conduct studies comparing the efficacy of

> > > juice

> > > > > from fresh Gou Qi ZI berries as opposed to reconstituted juice from

> > > dried

> > > > > berries.

> > > > >

> > > > > A. There's nothing wrong with using the dried gou qi zi, as has

> been

> > > done

> > > > > in China for thousands of years. But, as with any other fruit, we

> > > believe

> > > > > that fresh is better than dried. I always use the example of grapes

> > vs.

> > > > > raisins. When we know that the reason that red grapes are healthy

> > > because

> > > > of

> > > > > the red pigment anthocyanin, how could one expect to get the same

> > > benefit

> > > > > from raisins or from raisin juice?

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Q. Can you tell me precisely where the Gou Qi Zi berry that

> Freelife

> > > uses

> > > > > comes from?

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > A. From the Yellow River floodplains of Ningxia Hui province in

> north

> > > > > central China. There are also some great berries grown in Xinjiang

> > > Uygur

> > > > > province in the west, but our problem with using them is that we

> > > wouldn't

> > > > be

> > > > > able to get the fresh berries transported to our juicing plant in

> > Gansu

> > > > > province quickly enough to prevent spoilage.

> > > > >

> > > > > Q. Why is the product called Himalayan Goji when it comes from

> > Ningxia

> > > > Hui

> > > > > province in north central China, and Xinjiang Uygur in the

> Northwest.

> > > > These

> > > > > are nowhere near the Himalayas?

> > > > >

> > > > > A. The Himalayan people were the originators of a comprehensive

> > > > > wellness-based system of medicine, which predates TCM. They taught

> > > their

> > > > > system to the visiting Chinese silk traders and scholars, who

> > > ultimately

> > > > > refined it. Several Lycium species were used by the Himalayans, and

> > > > > according to legend, the Chinese visitors took samples home with

> them

> > > and

> > > > > planted them in their own valleys in northern and northwestern

> China.

> > > The

> > > > > name " Himalayan Goji Juice " was meant only to honor the discoverers

> > of

> > > > the

> > > > > berry, but it was precisely because of confusion that we named our

> > new

> > > > > product " GoChi " .

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Q. I am confused about an apparent contradiction. From what you

> > > > > represented to me, and from what the brochure " The pursuit of

> > > perfection "

> > > > > states, the berries used are freshly picked, cold pressed and

> packed

> > in

> > > > > aseptic containers before they are shipped overseas (not

> > reconstituted!

> > > )

> > > > > Yet, in the first study by Amagase and Nance it states on page 404

> > > under

> > > > > Materials and Methods: " ...This test material is a liquid dietary

> > > > supplement

> > > > > containing reconstituted juice from fresh whole L. Barbarum fruit

> > with

> > > > 10%

> > > > > excipients by volume. " So which is it?

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > A.The berries are freshly picked in Ningxia Hui, and are then

> shipped

> > > to

> > > > > our modern processing facility in nearby Gansu province. There,

> they

> > > are

> > > > > cold-pressed, after which about 50% of the water is removed by cold

> > (36

> > > –

> > > > > 38ËšF), vacuum-assisted rotary thin-film evaporation. That gives us

> a

> > > > > concentrated puree (of a consistency somewhat like thin tomato

> > paste).

> > > We

> > > > do

> > > > > this because the harvesting season is only 3 months long (July –

> > > > September),

> > > > > and we must purchase and prepare enough goji puree to last the rest

> > of

> > > > the

> > > > > year (with accommodations for anticipated growth). Removing the

> water

> > > > makes

> > > > > it easier to store the puree under refrigerated conditions in

> > > aseptically

> > > > > sterilized totes. From a microbiological standpoint, removing the

> > water

> > > > also

> > > > > reduces water activity, meaning that the puree is far less likely

> to

> > > > harbor

> > > > > bacteria and other microbes. Once we are ready for final

> processing,

> > > the

> > > > > puree is air-freighted to our bottling plant in the U.S., where it

> is

> > > > > reconstituted (meaning that the exact amount of water that was

> > removed

> > > in

> > > > > Gansu is now replenished) , and then it is blended with a small

> > (<10%)

> > > of

> > > > > grape and pomegranate juice to ensure a uniform color (our berries

> > are

> > > > > picked for their polysaccharide content, not their color) and some

> > > > natural

> > > > > goji berry flavor (because once again, our berries have the highest

> > LBP

> > > > > content and not always the sweetest taste – the natural goji berry

> > > flavor

> > > > > ensures that every bottle will taste the same). Lastly, the product

> > is

> > > > > aseptically sterilized by a 4-second heat treatment (actually a

> > shvitz

> > > > with

> > > > > live steam) that only coagulates microbial proteins and does not

> harm

> > > the

> > > > > delicate LBP content. We proved this during our process design and

> > > > > validation phase, and we test every batch to ensure that our

> product

> > is

> > > > > pristine and fully potent.

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Q. Would it not be indicated to publish a research study comparing

> > the

> > > > > potency of fresh Gou Qi Zi juice as opposed to reconstituted juice

> > > > (assuming

> > > > > that Freelife Go Chi juice is indeed fresh!).

> > > > >

> > > > > A. This is a very interesting idea, and if we had an unlimited

> > research

> > > > > budget, I would love to do a study comparing our product with those

> > of

> > > > our

> > > > > competitors, all of whom are using dried berries. Unfortunately,

> > there

> > > is

> > > > a

> > > > > limit to the size of Ray and Kevin's wallet, but I can tell you

> this.

> > > We

> > > > > have analyzed every competing product that we have found on the

> > market,

> > > > > including Goji 100, Goji Gold, Goji Splash and the rest, and we

> have

> > > not

> > > > > found one that has even one-third of our LBP content. And we truly

> > > > believe,

> > > > > as do most researchers, that the power of goji lies in these

> amazing

> > > > > glycopeptides known as Lycium barbarum polysaccharides (why Chinese

> > > > > researchers named them polysaccharides is a mystery to me,

> especially

> > > > when

> > > > > it's the amino acids on the glycopeptide surface – and their strong

> > > > > resemblance to microbial antigens – that initiates and promotes

> > immune

> > > > > response). We also believe that there is significant LBP

> degradation

> > in

> > > > > dried berries. Is

> > > > > it enough to render them ineffective? No. The long history of use

> of

> > > gou

> > > > qi

> > > > > zi in TCM is testimony to its effectiveness, but we are seeing with

> > our

> > > > > product is quite remarkable. In China, people take gou qi zi over a

> > > > lifetime

> > > > > to achieve moderate improvement in disease resistance and health.

> But

> > > > we're

> > > > > seeing dramatic short-term improvement, and perhaps that's the

> > biggest

> > > > > difference in using fresh berries – more polysaccharide power.

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Q. Would you be able to share with me the comparative analysis of

> the

> > > > > other Goji juice products?

> > > > >

> > > > > A. Sorry, but that information is highly confidential. Our

> philosophy

> > > is

> > > > > that we would rather promote our product based on its clinically

> > > > > demonstrated benefit rather than by slamming our competitors.

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Q. Can you explain in detail how the 90 day money back guarantee

> > works.

> > > I

> > > > > understand that if not satisfied than when 90 days worth of bottles

> > are

> > > > > returned, the amount paid for them will be refunded in full,

> correct?

> > > > > Well, first of all, I understand that this is based upon drinking 4

> > oz

> > > > > per day, but how many bottles does that mean? Also, what if two or

> > > three

> > > > > family members have been drinking the Go Chi juice, and none of

> them

> > > are

> > > > > satisfied, if all three return their bottles will they receive the

> > same

> > > > > refund?

> > > > >

> > > > > A. FreeLife's no risk guarantee is just that: If you are

> dissatisfied

> > > > > with our product for any reason, return it within 90 days and

> receive

> > a

> > > > > 100% refund, even if the bottle is empty! If you join FreeLife and

> > you

> > > > > decide it is not for you even after 90 days, just let Freelife know

> > > that

> > > > you

> > > > > wish to cancel. Freelife will " refund your money less a 10%

> handling

> > > fee

> > > > for

> > > > > all resalable product and sales aids you purchased within one year

> of

> > > > your

> > > > > decision to cancel " .

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Q. What are the production costs that are involved, and why such an

> > > > > enormous price per bottle. Please show me how what is charged is

> not

> > a

> > > > > reflection of a price which is inflated to benefit those higher up

> in

> > > the

> > > > > Multi-level marketing chain?

> > > > >

> > > > > A. The cost of our product is far higher than any other, as we are

> > the

> > > > > only company that is using fresh berries and not dried. The

> logistics

> > > of

> > > > > transporting and quickly processing our berries in rural northern

> > China

> > > > are

> > > > > daunting, and are very costly. Also, we would ask that you consider

> > the

> > > > > millions of dollars that we are spending on clinical research and

> > > > charitable

> > > > > works. When compared to products such as Goji 100, we are

> > competitively

> > > > > priced. We feel no reason to compete with the low-grade goji

> products

> > > > sold

> > > > > at deep discount in Wal-Mart and other outlets. We truly believe

> that

> > > > GoChi

> > > > > provides outstanding value for the money, even at the full retail

> > > price.

> > > > > However, many of our Marketing Executives receive rebates and

> bonuses

> > > > that

> > > > > result in them paying little or nothing for their product. Our

> > > > compensation

> > > > > plan benefits everyone who chooses to pursue our business

> > opportunity,

> > > > and

> > > > > it is by far the most generous pay plan in the industry.

> > > > >

> > > > > Q. Would it not be prudent for Freelife to donate some of their

> > profits

> > > > > back to the Chinese Medical community, such as to the TCM medical

> > > > schools,

> > > > > community clinics, research facilities, etc. The Chinese medical

> > > > community

> > > > > is an incredible potential ally, for sales referrals, and medical

> > > > > validation. Yet, thus far, the community views GoChi with much

> > > scepticism

> > > > > and distrust. As I think I have indicated to you, if I believe in a

> > > > product

> > > > > and receive satisfactory answers to my question, I will promote it.

> I

> > > can

> > > > > assure you that the same is true industry wide, but good will needs

> > to

> > > be

> > > > > cultivated. Comments?

> > > > >

> > > > > A. We have donate generously from our profits to our worldwide

> > GojiKids

> > > > > foundation, and a good amount of money has been spent in the areas

> of

> > > > > Ningxia Hui and Gansu provinces where our berries are grown and

> > juiced.

> > > > > Perhaps some day we will be able to expand our charitable efforts

> > > beyond

> > > > > children's relief efforts, but for now, this is where we are

> > dedicating

> > > > our

> > > > > dollars and our time.

> > > > >

> > > > > Q. It is customary for suppliers of medicinals, nutraceuticals, and

> > > other

> > > > > health products to offer licensed practitioners professional

> > discounts.

> > > > Why

> > > > > is that not the policy of Freelife?

> > > > >

> > > > > A. The suppliers that you mention in the practitioner channel have

> a

> > > > > completely different sales and marketing structure, and our plan is

> > > > simply

> > > > > not optimized to favor one class of customers at the expense of

> > others.

> > > > As

> > > > > stated previously, we do offer many opportunities for product

> > rebates,

> > > > > volume-driven bonuses and substantial income. I'm just not the

> person

> > > to

> > > > > discuss them with you, as it's not my area of competence.

> > > > >

> > > > > Q. I am concerned with the hyperbole that has accompanied some of

> the

> > > > sales

> > > > > people I have come in contact with. Some of the claims and

> > testimonials

> > > > > border on health claims which contravene FDA regulations. Please

> see

> > > this

> > > > > link to the letter from the FDA.

> > > > > http://www.fda. gov/cder/ warn/cyber/ 2006/CL226e. pdf How do you

> > > > reconcile

> > > > > this?

> > > > >

> > > > > A. I agree completely, and it bothers me tremendously that some of

> > our

> > > > > people are trying to market our product as some kind of miracle

> cure.

> > > > This

> > > > > letter was sent to a FreeLife distributor, not to FreeLife. We have

> a

> > > > strict

> > > > > policy against making illegal medical claims for our product, and

> we

> > > > > terminate any distributor who fails to take down non-compliant

> > websites

> > > > or

> > > > > who distributes non-compliant materials. This is why FreeLife has

> > never

> > > > > received a warning letter from FDA or a state Attorney-General. You

> > > will

> > > > not

> > > > > find anything on a FreeLife website – past, present, or future –

> that

> > > > says

> > > > > anything about using our products for the treatment or cure of any

> > > > disease,

> > > > > and we strongly recommend to our Marketing Executives that they

> speak

> > > > only

> > > > > of the 19 clinically demonstrated benefits of GoChi and avoid

> trying

> > to

> > > > > promote this product as some type of cure-all. We have no proof

> that

> > it

> > > > is

> > > > > effective against any disease or condition, and we have no

> intention

> > > > > of studying it in any of these areas. Why? Because, in the eyes of

> > FDA,

> > > > > that would re-classify our product as an unapproved new drug. It

> > > > currently

> > > > > costs about $600 million and 10 years to register a new drug in

> this

> > > > > country, and you can't sell drugs through Network Marketing, so can

> > you

> > > > see

> > > > > why we would never go that route? We do believe, though that GoChi

> is

> > > the

> > > > > best gou qi zi product on the planet, and we are certain that it

> will

> > > be

> > > > a

> > > > > valuable addition to the armamentarium of any TCM practitioner.

> And,

> > > > > although I wish that I could teach restraint to those who would

> have

> > > you

> > > > > believe that GoChi can grow new limbs, I hope that you will forgive

> > > them

> > > > and

> > > > > understand that their exuberance arises from having seen remarkable

> > > > changes

> > > > > in themselves and in those dear to them as a result of using the

> > > > > product. But this is not how we promote our product. GoChi has been

> > > > > clinically demonstrated against placebo in a published randomized,

> > > > > double-blind study to

> > > > > significantly improve sleep, energy, mental sharpness, feelings of

> > > calm,

> > > > > contentment, good health and happiness, to help relieve stress and

> to

> > > > > improve regularity. Blood tests have shown dramatic increases in

> the

> > > > body's

> > > > > ability to defend itself against toxic free radicals and to improve

> > > > immune

> > > > > defenses. Isn't that enough? If people's medical conditions are

> > > improving

> > > > > while taking GoChi, it's because they are becoming more

> > > immunocompetent.

> > > > The

> > > > > immune system is G-d's miracle, not the goji berry. GoChi is simply

> > the

> > > > > humble facilitator that restores balance to immunity. That is

> > entirely

> > > > > consistent with the use of gou qi zi in Traditional Chinese

> Medicine.

> > > > >

> > > > > As many of you expressed, I too, harbor a natural scepticism

> towards

> > > > > products that make spectacular claims. But, in my opinion, the

> tough

> > > > > questions I asked were answered satisfactorily, and I will now

> > > recommend

> > > > > this product to those patients who are liver yin and blood, and

> > Kidney

> > > > yin

> > > > > and jing vacuitous.

> > > > > The product appears to have quality and the guarantee is

> reasonable.

> > If

> > > > > any of you are interested in it feel free to write or call me.

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Sincerely,

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > www.traditionaljewi shmedicine. net

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

[Guest guest]

Kokko,

 

Here's the answer to your questions on the processing: 

 

Could you  elaborate on the proprietary aseptic sterilization? 

 

 The unprocessed juice is transported through a narrow-diameter stainless steel

tube that is in turn surrounded by a jacketing tube containing pressurized live

steam. This rapidly heats the product to about 250ËšF for 4 seconds, which is

all that is required to coagulate microbial proteins. This process would not be

suitable if GoChi contained protein, as it would also be coagulated, but GoChi

contains no protein.

 

The now-sterile juice continues through the stainless steel tube which is now

surrounded by an outer jacket filled with refrigerant, quickly lowering the

temperature of the juice to 38ËšF within 7 seconds. Although our active

principles (Lycium barbarum polysaccharides) are heat labile, the 4-second

duration does no significant harm, and we have proven this by extensive pre- and

post-sterilization testing. 

 

Is the product irradiated? If this is proprietary information, will they keep

that secret?

How does their sterilization process target only microbes and bacteria and

keep antioxidants and enzymes intact?

 

No it is not irradiated.  As far as enzymes are concerned, with rare exceptions

(e.g., the sulfhydryl proteases in pineapple, papaya, fig), there are no enzymes

worth conserving in most fruits. This is where we strongly disagree with the raw

food movement, who believe erroneously that there are beneficial enzymes in raw

foods. This belief, which arises from some philosophical works from the 1920s,

has been thoroughly discredited by science. Ironically, raw foods contain

enzymes that do not promote digestion, but which rather inhibit it, because that

is their function in the plant. They are anti-nutrients, which exist to prevent

the premature breakdown of starches and proteins until they are needed to

nurture the germinated seedling. Once sprouted or germinated, beneficial enzymes

are generated (such as the maltase in barley). But until the time of

germination, the native anti-nutrient enzymes in most raw plant foods will, if

taken into the body in

sufficient quantity, block the absorption and utilization of ingested

carbohydrates, proteins and fats. These anti-nutrients are found in largest

quantity in legumes and in non-sprouted grains, which is why they should never

be consumed in raw form.

 

As for the antioxidants in goji, they are largely carotenoids (zeaxanthin,

lutein and lycopene) and they are not found in any considerable quantity in the

juice, as they reside mainly in the skins and seeds of the berry, which we

exclude from GoChi. But we do not discard the skins and seeds, and in fact, we

are about to launch a new product next month that will highlight these important

carotenoids. The antioxidant power of GoChi is not to be found in the bottle.

Rather, we have clinically demonstrated that the LBP in GoChi is able to

significantly increase the body’s production of the endogenous antioxidants

superoxide dismutase and glutathione peroxidase, and we believe that this is far

more valuable to human health than merely introducing fruit polyphenols which

may or may not have systemic effect.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

--- On Mon, 8/25/08, <johnkokko wrote:

 

<johnkokko

Re: Follow up questions on Gou Qi Zi juice-GoChi : Enzyme loss

with Pasteurization

Chinese Medicine

Monday, August 25, 2008, 12:47 PM

 

 

 

 

 

 

Yehuda,

 

Could you ask them to elaborate on their proprietary aseptic sterilization

process?

Is the product irradiated? If this is proprietary information, will they

keep that secret?

How does their sterilization process target only microbes and bacteria and

keep antioxidants and enzymes intact?

 

K.

 

On Mon, Aug 25, 2008 at 10:46 AM, >wrote:

 

> Kokko,

>

> Here's what they say:

>

> Though their original formula Himalayan Goji Juice contained less than

> one-tenth of 1% of sodium benzoate and potassium sorbate...

> " GoChi is not perishable, because it contains absolutely no spoilage

> organisms. In fact, it contains no microbes at all, thanks to our

> proprietary aseptic sterilization process. Like any fresh food, it should be

> refrigerated promptly after opening, should be kept tightly closed except

> for when it is being poured, and should be consumed within 30 days of

> opening. "

>

>

>

> www.traditionaljewi shmedicine. net

>

>

> --- On Mon, 8/25/08, <johnkokko (AT) gmail (DOT) com<johnkokko%40gmail. com>>

> wrote:

>

> <johnkokko (AT) gmail (DOT) com <johnkokko%40gmail. com>>

> Re: Follow up questions on Gou Qi Zi juice-GoChi : Enzyme

> loss with Pasteurization

> <Traditional_

Chinese_Medicine %40. com>

> Monday, August 25, 2008, 10:19 AM

>

> Yehuda,

>

> That's good to know.

> But, how do they keep the product from bacterial and mold build-up without

> preservatives?

> Or are there some preservatives, since it isn't heat pasteurized?

> K.

>

> On Mon, Aug 25, 2008 at 9:49 AM, >wrote:

>

> > Kokko,

> >

> > I goofed, and you're right. GoChi is NOT pasteurized or heat processed. I

> > had assumed that it was, but when I check carefully one of their websites

> I

> > saw the following:

> >

> > " Our goji berries are not heat processed or pasteurized like others on

> the

> > market as this would destroy the delicate balance of glyconutrients,

> which

> > is what makes this product superior to any other copy cat on the market. "

> >

> >

> >

> > www.traditionaljewi shmedicine. net

> >

> >

> > --- On Mon, 8/25/08, <johnkokko (AT) gmail (DOT) com<johnkokko% 40gmail.

> com>>

> > wrote:

> >

> > <johnkokko (AT) gmail (DOT) com <johnkokko%40gmail. com>>

> > Re: Follow up questions on Gou Qi Zi juice-GoChi : Enzyme

> > loss with Pasteurization

> > <Traditional_

> Chinese_Medicine %40. com>

> > Monday, August 25, 2008, 9:19 AM

> >

> >

> > Yehuda,

> >

> > Thanks for bringing that up... Flash pasteurization is HEAT (70 degrees

> > celsius) pasteurization,

> > which denatures (deactivates) crucial enzymes which make the Gou qi zi

> > traditionally effective.

> > An example of a Gou qi zi enzyme are cerebrosides:

> > which " was shown to protect liver cells from a toxic dry-cleaning

> chemical

> > better than the well-known liver protectant milk thistle "

> > http://www.smart- publications. com/overall_ health/goji_ berry.php

> >

> > This is also a good reason to not decoct the berry (heat deactivation of

> > enzymes), but just to chew it.

> >

> > This is a disadvantage of the juices that you get at the store or through

> a

> > MLM group.

> > Better just to make a smoothie at home with the whole fruit (dried or

> not).

> >

> > Usually when the herbs are dried by traditional methods via farmers/herb

> > salers, they are dried at lower heats (below pasteurization levels) or in

> > the sun (below 70 degrees celsius = 158 degrees fahrenheit)

> > The regulatory flash pasteurization by the Go-Chi company neutralizes

> their

> > fresh picked puree process, in relation to enzymes,

> > which are a crucial component to the Gou Qi zi's legendary powers.

> > Furthermore, when the product sits on the shelf (unfrozen) for weeks to

> > months, the antioxidant load also decreases.

> >

> > K.

> >

> > On Mon, Aug 25, 2008 at 1:02 AM, (AT) (DOT)

com>wrote:

> >

> > > Hi Kokko,

> > >

> > > The point of the study was that drying significantly lowers the

> > > berry anthocyanin content. Now you are contending that it is a stretch

> to

> > > apply the fresh standards to Go Chi, which is essentially pureed and

> then

> > > flash pasteurized. We will wait for the studies to be published, but my

> > > point was that assuming that their process is able to sustain the

> benefit

> > of

> > > the fresh fruit, then it would be significantly more beneficial than

> > dried

> > > Gou Qi Zi.

> > >

> > > We'll see!

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > www.traditionaljewi shmedicine. net

> > >

> > >

> > > --- On Fri, 8/22/08, <johnkokko (AT) gmail (DOT) com<johnkokko%

> 40gmail.

> > com>>

> > > wrote:

> > >

> > > <johnkokko (AT) gmail (DOT) com <johnkokko%40gmail. com>>

> > > Re: Follow up questions on Gou Qi Zi juice-GoChi

> > > <Traditional_

> > Chinese_Medicine %40. com>

> >

> > > Friday, August 22, 2008, 5:03 PM

> > >

> > > Yehuda,

> > >

> > > Thanks for the pubmed study and am excited to see the forthcoming

> > studies.

> > > Of course, any company would only publish results which would support

> the

> > > sale of their own product,

> > > so hopefully we can see the entire results, irrespective of the

> outcome,

> > in

> > > the name of science.

> > >

> > > If we go by content as the basis of our evaluation of the Go-chi

> > > product,

> > > The " Change of Total Anthocyanins in Blueberries and Their Antioxidant

> > > Effect After Drying and Freezing " study that you linked for us

> > > had these results:

> > >

> > > * " Table 1*

> > >

> > > Anthocyanin content in evaluated samples.

> > > Blueberry samplesTotal anthocyaninsmg/ g dry matter

> > > ------------ --------- ---------

> > > Fresh blueberries (FR0)7.2 ± 0.5a**Fresh blueberries 2-week5.7 ±

> > > 0.5abstorage

> > > at 5°C (FR2)Untreated dried (UN)4.3 ± 0.1bcPretreated dried (PT)3.7 ±

> > > 0.2cStored

> > > frozen for 1 month (FZ1M)8.1 ± 0.1aStored frozen for 3 months (FZ3M)7.9

> ±

> > > 1.3a "

> > >

> > > Which one of these would the Go-chi product fall under? Once the

> product

> > is

> > > put on the shelf even after initial freezing, the anthocyanin level

> falls

> > > to

> > > levels of those of " Untreated Dried " .

> > > 5.7 +/- .5 (if stored at 5 degrees celsius, which I don't believe the

> > > Go-chi product is consistently stored at, because of transportation,

> > > distribution to customers via vendors via outlets and storage) vs. 4.3

> > +/-

> > > .1 (if untreated and dried)

> > > This anthocyanin content difference is not significant.

> > > When the product becomes unfrozen and goes on the shelf for weeks to

> > > months,

> > > the anythocyanin level will drop to levels below that of 5.7 +/- .5

> > > (according to the decreasing trend).

> > >

> > > This study was also ex vivo. But from the results, we can see that a

> > > product which is not kept consistently frozen, does not have any

> > > significant

> > > increase in anthocyanins than a product which is untreated and dried

> (ie.

> > > organic dried gou qi zi).

> > >

> > > So, for now, I'll stick to the dried gou qi zi.

> > > If you can find some fresh-frozen gou qi zi berries, that's another

> > story.

> > >

> > > Respectfully,

> > > K.

> > >

> > > On Thu, Aug 21, 2008 at 10:47 AM, (AT) (DOT)

com>wrote:

> > >

> > > > Dear Kokko,

> > > >

> > > > Studies do show that drying decreases anthocyanin content in fruit.

> > > > See:(http://www.pubmedce ntral.nih. gov/articlerende r.fcgi?artid=

> > > 1082901

> > >

> > > > And again the problem I have with ORAC scoring is that it just

> measures

> > > in

> > > > vitro, not in vivo. The amount of grape and pomegranate juice added

> to

> > Go

> > > > Chi IMO is statistically insignificant (3%) and is added to enhance

> > > flavor.

> > > > Of course, this could present a problem to someone hypersensitive

> > > > to pomegranates and/or grapes (I have two such patients!)

> > > >

> > > > Your concerns, I think, are one of the reasons that Freelife has

> > > conducted

> > > > other clinical studies, and I await the published results of the two

> > > > additional studies submitted to peer-review journals which should be

> > out

> > > > before the end of the year which I referred to earlier: The immune

> > study

> > > > testing and comparing the significant difference of three markers in

> > vivo

> > > :

> > > > lymphocytes, IL-2 and IgG, and the antioxidant study testing and

> > > comparing,

> > > > again, in vivo levels of SOD, GSH-Px and MDA.

> > > >

> > > > Concerning the cost, they claim that the costs involved in their

> > > production

> > > > are " higher than any other, as we are the only company that is using

> > > fresh

> > > > berries and not dried. The logistics of transporting and quickly

> > > processing

> > > > our berries in rural northern China are daunting.... " That doesn't

> > seem

> > > > unreasonable to me, assuming that what they are claiming is true. It

> is

> > > > also telling, I think, that they are investing a significant amount

> of

> > > > their budget to research and development in order to support their

> > claims

> > > > scientifically. I think that this also is unique for companies

> hawking

> > a

> > > > product.

> > > >

> > > > Again, the two additional studies have been presented and will be

> > > published

> > > > shortly, apparently. They say that other studies are forthcoming.

> > > >

> > > > As always, I appreciate your insightful questions and desire to

> > reinforce

> > > > scientific validation of our wonderful medicine.

> > > >

> > > > All the best,

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Yehuda

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Yehuda,

> > > > Thanks for relaying this info to the group.

> > > > I'm not convinced that the fresh puree that has been reconstituted,

> > > > bottled,

> > > > shipped and sitting on a non-refrigerated shelf is going to have more

> > > > nutritional value than the dried fruit that can be eaten whole or

> > > decocted

> > > > immediately be a patient or practitioner.

> > > > There was a clinical study done to compare the " Antioxidant capacity

> > and

> > > > phenolic content of grapes, sun-dried raisins, and golden raisins and

> > > their

> > > > effect on ex vivo serum antioxidant capacity. "

> > > >

> > > > " The objectives of this study were to compare the antioxidant

> capacity

> > > and

> > > > phenolic content of green Thompson seedless grapes (the most common

> > > variety

> > > > of grapes consumed in the United States), sun-dried raisins, and

> golden

> > > > raisins (both produced from Thompson seedless grapes) and to observe

> > the

> > > > effects of their consumption over 4 weeks in 15 healthy human males

> > with

> > > a

> > > > cross-over design. The oxygen radical absorbance capacity (ORAC)

> > > (positive

> > > > statistical significance for grapes after 2 weeks and golden raisins

> > > after

> > > > 3

> > > > weeks), serum oxidation (positive statistical significance for golden

> > > > raisin

> > > > lag time after 4 weeks), total phenolics (no significant effects),

> and

> > > > C-reactive protein (no significant effects) were monitored. "

> > > >

> > > > *The conclusions from the study were that, " Golden raisins had the

> > > highest

> > > > antioxidant capacity and phenolic content. " *

> > > > http://cat.inist. fr/?aModele= afficheN & cpsidt=19186324

> > > >

> > > > So, more clinical research needs to be done to be convincing that the

> > > > Go-chi

> > > > juice is more beneficial than the traditional dried berries,

> especially

> > > for

> > > > the price differential.

> > > > If raisins have similar or even higher antioxidant profiles than the

> > > fresh

> > > > grapes from which they were derived, why pay 10 times more for the

> same

> > > > stuff in a bottle? (Since these fresh gou qi zi vs dried gou qi zi

> > > studies

> > > > have not been published, how can we truly know other than make

> > > > speculations,

> > > > as the Go-chi juice sales representative has done)

> > > >

> > > > Also, since grape and pomegranate juice are added to the puree for

> the

> > > > Go-chi juice,

> > > > doesn't that skew the results for the studies, since it has been long

> > > > verified that grape and pomegranate juices are among the highest ORAC

> > > > scored

> > > > foods? That doesn't give credence to " Go-chi " juice, but the power of

> > > > grape and pomegranate juices mixed with Gou qi zi (which has already

> > been

> > > > validated by traditional use).

> > > >

> > > > What if I chewed dried gou qi zi mixing it with my salivary enzymes,

> > > > instead

> > > > of having a processing blade slice it and then have it take weeks to

> > > months

> > > > to get to my mouth?

> > > >

> > > > Without this evidence, it would be difficult for me to sell the

> > " Go-chi "

> > > > product instead of giving my patients a pound of Organic dried Gou qi

> > zi.

> > > >

> > > > Respectfully,

> > > > K.

> > > >

> > > > On Thu, Aug 21, 2008 at 4:34 AM, (AT) (DOT)

com>wrote:

> > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Dear colleagues,

> > > > >

> > > > > About two weeks ago, I wrote to you asking for your feedback

> > concerning

> > > > > Gou Qi Zi juice sold as GoChi by Freelife. I had a number of

> > questions

> > > > and

> > > > > doubts about the product, and as I expressed, the concept of

> > > multi-level

> > > > > marketing I find abhorrent. I took your questions as well as my

> own,

> > > and

> > > > > presented them to the Freelife's chief products officer. Below are

> my

> > > > > questions and the answers I received:

> > > > >

> > > > > Q.It would be wise to have research done not by an employee of

> > > Freelife.

> > > > > It gives the impression of being jaded.

> > > > >

> > > > > A. Like all peer-reviewed journals, the Journal of Alternative and

> > > > > Complementary Medicine blinds their expert judges, so they had no

> > idea

> > > > that

> > > > > the study was performed by the eminent Dr. Amagase and Dr. Nance.

> > > > Regardless

> > > > > of who designs or conducts a study, the fairness and honesty are

> > > > guaranteed

> > > > > by randomizing, double-blinding and placebo control. In our second

> > and

> > > > third

> > > > > studies, Dr. Amagase was a corresponding author and did not conduct

> > the

> > > > > study. We have other unreleased studies that have been conducted

> > around

> > > > the

> > > > > world by members of our independent Scientific Advisory Board.

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Q. To be really considered seriously by the scientific community,

> > > studies

> > > > > should certainly be for longer than two weeks and they should be

> > > > conducted

> > > > > by objective third parties who do not have a vested interest in

> their

> > > > > validation.

> > > > >

> > > > > A. We respectfully disagree. For years, our customers had been

> > telling

> > > us

> > > > > that they were getting remarkable results from our product within

> two

> > > > weeks

> > > > > or less. Frankly, we didn't believe them because there was nothing

> in

> > > the

> > > > > history of Traditional to support this. But, then

> > > again,

> > > > > goji's history in TCM has been in the form of dried berries, and

> our

> > > > product

> > > > > is the first ever to be made from fresh berries, and therefore

> > delivers

> > > > far

> > > > > more of the goji berry's bioactive polysaccharides. And so, we

> > decided

> > > to

> > > > > see if our customers were really experiencing these reported

> benefits

> > > or

> > > > if

> > > > > they were simply experiencing a placebo effect. We designed and

> > > conducted

> > > > a

> > > > > 14 day randomized, double-blind, placebo controlled study and found

> > > that

> > > > our

> > > > > customers were not crazy after all. The peer review judges at the

> > > medical

> > > > > journal that accepted and published our study had no problem with

> its

> > > 14

> > > > day

> > > > > duration, or that it was conducted on FreeLife

> > > > > employees. Our second and third studies were conducted for 30 days

> > > each,

> > > > > and on larger populations who had no knowledge of FreeLife or our

> > > > products.

> > > > > Other ongoing and planned studies are at 60 and 90 day duration.

> > > > >

> > > > > Q. These studies are very important to me and I would like to know

> > when

> > > > > they will be published and authenticated.

> > > > >

> > > > > A. They are undergoing the peer review process at two separate

> > > journals,

> > > > > which can take several month. We can't disclose the names of the

> > > journals

> > > > > because they have prohibited us from doing so, but we hope that

> both

> > > > studies

> > > > > will be accepted and published by the end of 2008.

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Q. It would be helpful to conduct studies comparing the efficacy of

> > > juice

> > > > > from fresh Gou Qi ZI berries as opposed to reconstituted juice from

> > > dried

> > > > > berries.

> > > > >

> > > > > A. There's nothing wrong with using the dried gou qi zi, as has

> been

> > > done

> > > > > in China for thousands of years. But, as with any other fruit, we

> > > believe

> > > > > that fresh is better than dried. I always use the example of grapes

> > vs.

> > > > > raisins. When we know that the reason that red grapes are healthy

> > > because

> > > > of

> > > > > the red pigment anthocyanin, how could one expect to get the same

> > > benefit

> > > > > from raisins or from raisin juice?

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Q. Can you tell me precisely where the Gou Qi Zi berry that

> Freelife

> > > uses

> > > > > comes from?

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > A. From the Yellow River floodplains of Ningxia Hui province in

> north

> > > > > central China. There are also some great berries grown in Xinjiang

> > > Uygur

> > > > > province in the west, but our problem with using them is that we

> > > wouldn't

> > > > be

> > > > > able to get the fresh berries transported to our juicing plant in

> > Gansu

> > > > > province quickly enough to prevent spoilage.

> > > > >

> > > > > Q. Why is the product called Himalayan Goji when it comes from

> > Ningxia

> > > > Hui

> > > > > province in north central China, and Xinjiang Uygur in the

> Northwest.

> > > > These

> > > > > are nowhere near the Himalayas?

> > > > >

> > > > > A. The Himalayan people were the originators of a comprehensive

> > > > > wellness-based system of medicine, which predates TCM. They taught

> > > their

> > > > > system to the visiting Chinese silk traders and scholars, who

> > > ultimately

> > > > > refined it. Several Lycium species were used by the Himalayans, and

> > > > > according to legend, the Chinese visitors took samples home with

> them

> > > and

> > > > > planted them in their own valleys in northern and northwestern

> China.

> > > The

> > > > > name " Himalayan Goji Juice " was meant only to honor the discoverers

> > of

> > > > the

> > > > > berry, but it was precisely because of confusion that we named our

> > new

> > > > > product " GoChi " .

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Q. I am confused about an apparent contradiction. From what you

> > > > > represented to me, and from what the brochure " The pursuit of

> > > perfection "

> > > > > states, the berries used are freshly picked, cold pressed and

> packed

> > in

> > > > > aseptic containers before they are shipped overseas (not

> > reconstituted!

> > > )

> > > > > Yet, in the first study by Amagase and Nance it states on page 404

> > > under

> > > > > Materials and Methods: " ...This test material is a liquid dietary

> > > > supplement

> > > > > containing reconstituted juice from fresh whole L. Barbarum fruit

> > with

> > > > 10%

> > > > > excipients by volume. " So which is it?

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > A.The berries are freshly picked in Ningxia Hui, and are then

> shipped

> > > to

> > > > > our modern processing facility in nearby Gansu province. There,

> they

> > > are

> > > > > cold-pressed, after which about 50% of the water is removed by cold

> > (36

> > > –

> > > > > 38ËšF), vacuum-assisted rotary thin-film evaporation. That gives us

> a

> > > > > concentrated puree (of a consistency somewhat like thin tomato

> > paste).

> > > We

> > > > do

> > > > > this because the harvesting season is only 3 months long (July –

> > > > September),

> > > > > and we must purchase and prepare enough goji puree to last the rest

> > of

> > > > the

> > > > > year (with accommodations for anticipated growth). Removing the

> water

> > > > makes

> > > > > it easier to store the puree under refrigerated conditions in

> > > aseptically

> > > > > sterilized totes. From a microbiological standpoint, removing the

> > water

> > > > also

> > > > > reduces water activity, meaning that the puree is far less likely

> to

> > > > harbor

> > > > > bacteria and other microbes. Once we are ready for final

> processing,

> > > the

> > > > > puree is air-freighted to our bottling plant in the U.S., where it

> is

> > > > > reconstituted (meaning that the exact amount of water that was

> > removed

> > > in

> > > > > Gansu is now replenished) , and then it is blended with a small

> > (<10%)

> > > of

> > > > > grape and pomegranate juice to ensure a uniform color (our berries

> > are

> > > > > picked for their polysaccharide content, not their color) and some

> > > > natural

> > > > > goji berry flavor (because once again, our berries have the highest

> > LBP

> > > > > content and not always the sweetest taste – the natural goji berry

> > > flavor

> > > > > ensures that every bottle will taste the same). Lastly, the product

> > is

> > > > > aseptically sterilized by a 4-second heat treatment (actually a

> > shvitz

> > > > with

> > > > > live steam) that only coagulates microbial proteins and does not

> harm

> > > the

> > > > > delicate LBP content. We proved this during our process design and

> > > > > validation phase, and we test every batch to ensure that our

> product

> > is

> > > > > pristine and fully potent.

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Q. Would it not be indicated to publish a research study comparing

> > the

> > > > > potency of fresh Gou Qi Zi juice as opposed to reconstituted juice

> > > > (assuming

> > > > > that Freelife Go Chi juice is indeed fresh!).

> > > > >

> > > > > A. This is a very interesting idea, and if we had an unlimited

> > research

> > > > > budget, I would love to do a study comparing our product with those

> > of

> > > > our

> > > > > competitors, all of whom are using dried berries. Unfortunately,

> > there

> > > is

> > > > a

> > > > > limit to the size of Ray and Kevin's wallet, but I can tell you

> this.

> > > We

> > > > > have analyzed every competing product that we have found on the

> > market,

> > > > > including Goji 100, Goji Gold, Goji Splash and the rest, and we

> have

> > > not

> > > > > found one that has even one-third of our LBP content. And we truly

> > > > believe,

> > > > > as do most researchers, that the power of goji lies in these

> amazing

> > > > > glycopeptides known as Lycium barbarum polysaccharides (why Chinese

> > > > > researchers named them polysaccharides is a mystery to me,

> especially

> > > > when

> > > > > it's the amino acids on the glycopeptide surface – and their strong

> > > > > resemblance to microbial antigens – that initiates and promotes

> > immune

> > > > > response). We also believe that there is significant LBP

> degradation

> > in

> > > > > dried berries. Is

> > > > > it enough to render them ineffective? No. The long history of use

> of

> > > gou

> > > > qi

> > > > > zi in TCM is testimony to its effectiveness, but we are seeing with

> > our

> > > > > product is quite remarkable. In China, people take gou qi zi over a

> > > > lifetime

> > > > > to achieve moderate improvement in disease resistance and health.

> But

> > > > we're

> > > > > seeing dramatic short-term improvement, and perhaps that's the

> > biggest

> > > > > difference in using fresh berries – more polysaccharide power.

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Q. Would you be able to share with me the comparative analysis of

> the

> > > > > other Goji juice products?

> > > > >

> > > > > A. Sorry, but that information is highly confidential. Our

> philosophy

> > > is

> > > > > that we would rather promote our product based on its clinically

> > > > > demonstrated benefit rather than by slamming our competitors.

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Q. Can you explain in detail how the 90 day money back guarantee

> > works.

> > > I

> > > > > understand that if not satisfied than when 90 days worth of bottles

> > are

> > > > > returned, the amount paid for them will be refunded in full,

> correct?

> > > > > Well, first of all, I understand that this is based upon drinking 4

> > oz

> > > > > per day, but how many bottles does that mean? Also, what if two or

> > > three

> > > > > family members have been drinking the Go Chi juice, and none of

> them

> > > are

> > > > > satisfied, if all three return their bottles will they receive the

> > same

> > > > > refund?

> > > > >

> > > > > A. FreeLife's no risk guarantee is just that: If you are

> dissatisfied

> > > > > with our product for any reason, return it within 90 days and

> receive

> > a

> > > > > 100% refund, even if the bottle is empty! If you join FreeLife and

> > you

> > > > > decide it is not for you even after 90 days, just let Freelife know

> > > that

> > > > you

> > > > > wish to cancel. Freelife will " refund your money less a 10%

> handling

> > > fee

> > > > for

> > > > > all resalable product and sales aids you purchased within one year

> of

> > > > your

> > > > > decision to cancel " .

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Q. What are the production costs that are involved, and why such an

> > > > > enormous price per bottle. Please show me how what is charged is

> not

> > a

> > > > > reflection of a price which is inflated to benefit those higher up

> in

> > > the

> > > > > Multi-level marketing chain?

> > > > >

> > > > > A. The cost of our product is far higher than any other, as we are

> > the

> > > > > only company that is using fresh berries and not dried. The

> logistics

> > > of

> > > > > transporting and quickly processing our berries in rural northern

> > China

> > > > are

> > > > > daunting, and are very costly. Also, we would ask that you consider

> > the

> > > > > millions of dollars that we are spending on clinical research and

> > > > charitable

> > > > > works. When compared to products such as Goji 100, we are

> > competitively

> > > > > priced. We feel no reason to compete with the low-grade goji

> products

> > > > sold

> > > > > at deep discount in Wal-Mart and other outlets. We truly believe

> that

> > > > GoChi

> > > > > provides outstanding value for the money, even at the full retail

> > > price.

> > > > > However, many of our Marketing Executives receive rebates and

> bonuses

> > > > that

> > > > > result in them paying little or nothing for their product. Our

> > > > compensation

> > > > > plan benefits everyone who chooses to pursue our business

> > opportunity,

> > > > and

> > > > > it is by far the most generous pay plan in the industry.

> > > > >

> > > > > Q. Would it not be prudent for Freelife to donate some of their

> > profits

> > > > > back to the Chinese Medical community, such as to the TCM medical

> > > > schools,

> > > > > community clinics, research facilities, etc. The Chinese medical

> > > > community

> > > > > is an incredible potential ally, for sales referrals, and medical

> > > > > validation. Yet, thus far, the community views GoChi with much

> > > scepticism

> > > > > and distrust. As I think I have indicated to you, if I believe in a

> > > > product

> > > > > and receive satisfactory answers to my question, I will promote it.

> I

> > > can

> > > > > assure you that the same is true industry wide, but good will needs

> > to

> > > be

> > > > > cultivated. Comments?

> > > > >

> > > > > A. We have donate generously from our profits to our worldwide

> > GojiKids

> > > > > foundation, and a good amount of money has been spent in the areas

> of

> > > > > Ningxia Hui and Gansu provinces where our berries are grown and

> > juiced.

> > > > > Perhaps some day we will be able to expand our charitable efforts

> > > beyond

> > > > > children's relief efforts, but for now, this is where we are

> > dedicating

> > > > our

> > > > > dollars and our time.

> > > > >

> > > > > Q. It is customary for suppliers of medicinals, nutraceuticals, and

> > > other

> > > > > health products to offer licensed practitioners professional

> > discounts.

> > > > Why

> > > > > is that not the policy of Freelife?

> > > > >

> > > > > A. The suppliers that you mention in the practitioner channel have

> a

> > > > > completely different sales and marketing structure, and our plan is

> > > > simply

> > > > > not optimized to favor one class of customers at the expense of

> > others.

> > > > As

> > > > > stated previously, we do offer many opportunities for product

> > rebates,

> > > > > volume-driven bonuses and substantial income. I'm just not the

> person

> > > to

> > > > > discuss them with you, as it's not my area of competence.

> > > > >

> > > > > Q. I am concerned with the hyperbole that has accompanied some of

> the

> > > > sales

> > > > > people I have come in contact with. Some of the claims and

> > testimonials

> > > > > border on health claims which contravene FDA regulations. Please

> see

> > > this

> > > > > link to the letter from the FDA.

> > > > > http://www.fda. gov/cder/ warn/cyber/ 2006/CL226e. pdf How do you

> > > > reconcile

> > > > > this?

> > > > >

> > > > > A. I agree completely, and it bothers me tremendously that some of

> > our

> > > > > people are trying to market our product as some kind of miracle

> cure.

> > > > This

> > > > > letter was sent to a FreeLife distributor, not to FreeLife. We have

> a

> > > > strict

> > > > > policy against making illegal medical claims for our product, and

> we

> > > > > terminate any distributor who fails to take down non-compliant

> > websites

> > > > or

> > > > > who distributes non-compliant materials. This is why FreeLife has

> > never

> > > > > received a warning letter from FDA or a state Attorney-General. You

> > > will

> > > > not

> > > > > find anything on a FreeLife website – past, present, or future –

> that

> > > > says

> > > > > anything about using our products for the treatment or cure of any

> > > > disease,

> > > > > and we strongly recommend to our Marketing Executives that they

> speak

> > > > only

> > > > > of the 19 clinically demonstrated benefits of GoChi and avoid

> trying

> > to

> > > > > promote this product as some type of cure-all. We have no proof

> that

> > it

> > > > is

> > > > > effective against any disease or condition, and we have no

> intention

> > > > > of studying it in any of these areas. Why? Because, in the eyes of

> > FDA,

> > > > > that would re-classify our product as an unapproved new drug. It

> > > > currently

> > > > > costs about $600 million and 10 years to register a new drug in

> this

> > > > > country, and you can't sell drugs through Network Marketing, so can

> > you

> > > > see

> > > > > why we would never go that route? We do believe, though that GoChi

> is

> > > the

> > > > > best gou qi zi product on the planet, and we are certain that it

> will

> > > be

> > > > a

> > > > > valuable addition to the armamentarium of any TCM practitioner.

> And,

> > > > > although I wish that I could teach restraint to those who would

> have

> > > you

> > > > > believe that GoChi can grow new limbs, I hope that you will forgive

> > > them

> > > > and

> > > > > understand that their exuberance arises from having seen remarkable

> > > > changes

> > > > > in themselves and in those dear to them as a result of using the

> > > > > product. But this is not how we promote our product. GoChi has been

> > > > > clinically demonstrated against placebo in a published randomized,

> > > > > double-blind study to

> > > > > significantly improve sleep, energy, mental sharpness, feelings of

> > > calm,

> > > > > contentment, good health and happiness, to help relieve stress and

> to

> > > > > improve regularity. Blood tests have shown dramatic increases in

> the

> > > > body's

> > > > > ability to defend itself against toxic free radicals and to improve

> > > > immune

> > > > > defenses. Isn't that enough? If people's medical conditions are

> > > improving

> > > > > while taking GoChi, it's because they are becoming more

> > > immunocompetent.

> > > > The

> > > > > immune system is G-d's miracle, not the goji berry. GoChi is simply

> > the

> > > > > humble facilitator that restores balance to immunity. That is

> > entirely

> > > > > consistent with the use of gou qi zi in Traditional Chinese

> Medicine.

> > > > >

> > > > > As many of you expressed, I too, harbor a natural scepticism

> towards

> > > > > products that make spectacular claims. But, in my opinion, the

> tough

> > > > > questions I asked were answered satisfactorily, and I will now

> > > recommend

> > > > > this product to those patients who are liver yin and blood, and

> > Kidney

> > > > yin

> > > > > and jing vacuitous.

> > > > > The product appears to have quality and the guarantee is

> reasonable.

> > If

> > > > > any of you are interested in it feel free to write or call me.

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Sincerely,

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > www.traditionaljewi shmedicine. net

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

[Guest guest]

Kokko,

 

Here's the answer to your questions on the processing: 

 

Could you  elaborate on the proprietary aseptic sterilization? 

 

 The unprocessed juice is transported through a narrow-diameter stainless steel

tube that is in turn surrounded by a jacketing tube containing pressurized live

steam. This rapidly heats the product to about 250ËšF for 4 seconds, which is

all that is required to coagulate microbial proteins. This process would not be

suitable if GoChi contained protein, as it would also be coagulated, but GoChi

contains no protein.

 

The now-sterile juice continues through the stainless steel tube which is now

surrounded by an outer jacket filled with refrigerant, quickly lowering the

temperature of the juice to 38ËšF within 7 seconds. Although our active

principles (Lycium barbarum polysaccharides) are heat labile, the 4-second

duration does no significant harm, and we have proven this by extensive pre- and

post-sterilization testing. 

 

Is the product irradiated? If this is proprietary information, will they keep

that secret?

How does their sterilization process target only microbes and bacteria and

keep antioxidants and enzymes intact?

 

No it is not irradiated.  As far as enzymes are concerned, with rare exceptions

(e.g., the sulfhydryl proteases in pineapple, papaya, fig), there are no enzymes

worth conserving in most fruits. This is where we strongly disagree with the raw

food movement, who believe erroneously that there are beneficial enzymes in raw

foods. This belief, which arises from some philosophical works from the 1920s,

has been thoroughly discredited by science. Ironically, raw foods contain

enzymes that do not promote digestion, but which rather inhibit it, because that

is their function in the plant. They are anti-nutrients, which exist to prevent

the premature breakdown of starches and proteins until they are needed to

nurture the germinated seedling. Once sprouted or germinated, beneficial enzymes

are generated (such as the maltase in barley). But until the time of

germination, the native anti-nutrient enzymes in most raw plant foods will, if

taken into the body in

sufficient quantity, block the absorption and utilization of ingested

carbohydrates, proteins and fats. These anti-nutrients are found in largest

quantity in legumes and in non-sprouted grains, which is why they should never

be consumed in raw form.

 

As for the antioxidants in goji, they are largely carotenoids (zeaxanthin,

lutein and lycopene) and they are not found in any considerable quantity in the

juice, as they reside mainly in the skins and seeds of the berry, which we

exclude from GoChi. But we do not discard the skins and seeds, and in fact, we

are about to launch a new product next month that will highlight these important

carotenoids. The antioxidant power of GoChi is not to be found in the bottle.

Rather, we have clinically demonstrated that the LBP in GoChi is able to

significantly increase the body’s production of the endogenous antioxidants

superoxide dismutase and glutathione peroxidase, and we believe that this is far

more valuable to human health than merely introducing fruit polyphenols which

may or may not have systemic effect.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

--- On Mon, 8/25/08, <johnkokko wrote:

 

<johnkokko

Re: Follow up questions on Gou Qi Zi juice-GoChi : Enzyme loss

with Pasteurization

Chinese Medicine

Monday, August 25, 2008, 12:47 PM

 

 

 

 

 

 

Yehuda,

 

Could you ask them to elaborate on their proprietary aseptic sterilization

process?

Is the product irradiated? If this is proprietary information, will they

keep that secret?

How does their sterilization process target only microbes and bacteria and

keep antioxidants and enzymes intact?

 

K.

 

On Mon, Aug 25, 2008 at 10:46 AM, >wrote:

 

> Kokko,

>

> Here's what they say:

>

> Though their original formula Himalayan Goji Juice contained less than

> one-tenth of 1% of sodium benzoate and potassium sorbate...

> " GoChi is not perishable, because it contains absolutely no spoilage

> organisms. In fact, it contains no microbes at all, thanks to our

> proprietary aseptic sterilization process. Like any fresh food, it should be

> refrigerated promptly after opening, should be kept tightly closed except

> for when it is being poured, and should be consumed within 30 days of

> opening. "

>

>

>

> www.traditionaljewi shmedicine. net

>

>

> --- On Mon, 8/25/08, <johnkokko (AT) gmail (DOT) com<johnkokko%40gmail. com>>

> wrote:

>

> <johnkokko (AT) gmail (DOT) com <johnkokko%40gmail. com>>

> Re: Follow up questions on Gou Qi Zi juice-GoChi : Enzyme

> loss with Pasteurization

> <Traditional_

Chinese_Medicine %40. com>

> Monday, August 25, 2008, 10:19 AM

>

> Yehuda,

>

> That's good to know.

> But, how do they keep the product from bacterial and mold build-up without

> preservatives?

> Or are there some preservatives, since it isn't heat pasteurized?

> K.

>

> On Mon, Aug 25, 2008 at 9:49 AM, >wrote:

>

> > Kokko,

> >

> > I goofed, and you're right. GoChi is NOT pasteurized or heat processed. I

> > had assumed that it was, but when I check carefully one of their websites

> I

> > saw the following:

> >

> > " Our goji berries are not heat processed or pasteurized like others on

> the

> > market as this would destroy the delicate balance of glyconutrients,

> which

> > is what makes this product superior to any other copy cat on the market. "

> >

> >

> >

> > www.traditionaljewi shmedicine. net

> >

> >

> > --- On Mon, 8/25/08, <johnkokko (AT) gmail (DOT) com<johnkokko% 40gmail.

> com>>

> > wrote:

> >

> > <johnkokko (AT) gmail (DOT) com <johnkokko%40gmail. com>>

> > Re: Follow up questions on Gou Qi Zi juice-GoChi : Enzyme

> > loss with Pasteurization

> > <Traditional_

> Chinese_Medicine %40. com>

> > Monday, August 25, 2008, 9:19 AM

> >

> >

> > Yehuda,

> >

> > Thanks for bringing that up... Flash pasteurization is HEAT (70 degrees

> > celsius) pasteurization,

> > which denatures (deactivates) crucial enzymes which make the Gou qi zi

> > traditionally effective.

> > An example of a Gou qi zi enzyme are cerebrosides:

> > which " was shown to protect liver cells from a toxic dry-cleaning

> chemical

> > better than the well-known liver protectant milk thistle "

> > http://www.smart- publications. com/overall_ health/goji_ berry.php

> >

> > This is also a good reason to not decoct the berry (heat deactivation of

> > enzymes), but just to chew it.

> >

> > This is a disadvantage of the juices that you get at the store or through

> a

> > MLM group.

> > Better just to make a smoothie at home with the whole fruit (dried or

> not).

> >

> > Usually when the herbs are dried by traditional methods via farmers/herb

> > salers, they are dried at lower heats (below pasteurization levels) or in

> > the sun (below 70 degrees celsius = 158 degrees fahrenheit)

> > The regulatory flash pasteurization by the Go-Chi company neutralizes

> their

> > fresh picked puree process, in relation to enzymes,

> > which are a crucial component to the Gou Qi zi's legendary powers.

> > Furthermore, when the product sits on the shelf (unfrozen) for weeks to

> > months, the antioxidant load also decreases.

> >

> > K.

> >

> > On Mon, Aug 25, 2008 at 1:02 AM, (AT) (DOT)

com>wrote:

> >

> > > Hi Kokko,

> > >

> > > The point of the study was that drying significantly lowers the

> > > berry anthocyanin content. Now you are contending that it is a stretch

> to

> > > apply the fresh standards to Go Chi, which is essentially pureed and

> then

> > > flash pasteurized. We will wait for the studies to be published, but my

> > > point was that assuming that their process is able to sustain the

> benefit

> > of

> > > the fresh fruit, then it would be significantly more beneficial than

> > dried

> > > Gou Qi Zi.

> > >

> > > We'll see!

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > www.traditionaljewi shmedicine. net

> > >

> > >

> > > --- On Fri, 8/22/08, <johnkokko (AT) gmail (DOT) com<johnkokko%

> 40gmail.

> > com>>

> > > wrote:

> > >

> > > <johnkokko (AT) gmail (DOT) com <johnkokko%40gmail. com>>

> > > Re: Follow up questions on Gou Qi Zi juice-GoChi

> > > <Traditional_

> > Chinese_Medicine %40. com>

> >

> > > Friday, August 22, 2008, 5:03 PM

> > >

> > > Yehuda,

> > >

> > > Thanks for the pubmed study and am excited to see the forthcoming

> > studies.

> > > Of course, any company would only publish results which would support

> the

> > > sale of their own product,

> > > so hopefully we can see the entire results, irrespective of the

> outcome,

> > in

> > > the name of science.

> > >

> > > If we go by content as the basis of our evaluation of the Go-chi

> > > product,

> > > The " Change of Total Anthocyanins in Blueberries and Their Antioxidant

> > > Effect After Drying and Freezing " study that you linked for us

> > > had these results:

> > >

> > > * " Table 1*

> > >

> > > Anthocyanin content in evaluated samples.

> > > Blueberry samplesTotal anthocyaninsmg/ g dry matter

> > > ------------ --------- ---------

> > > Fresh blueberries (FR0)7.2 ± 0.5a**Fresh blueberries 2-week5.7 ±

> > > 0.5abstorage

> > > at 5°C (FR2)Untreated dried (UN)4.3 ± 0.1bcPretreated dried (PT)3.7 ±

> > > 0.2cStored

> > > frozen for 1 month (FZ1M)8.1 ± 0.1aStored frozen for 3 months (FZ3M)7.9

> ±

> > > 1.3a "

> > >

> > > Which one of these would the Go-chi product fall under? Once the

> product

> > is

> > > put on the shelf even after initial freezing, the anthocyanin level

> falls

> > > to

> > > levels of those of " Untreated Dried " .

> > > 5.7 +/- .5 (if stored at 5 degrees celsius, which I don't believe the

> > > Go-chi product is consistently stored at, because of transportation,

> > > distribution to customers via vendors via outlets and storage) vs. 4.3

> > +/-

> > > .1 (if untreated and dried)

> > > This anthocyanin content difference is not significant.

> > > When the product becomes unfrozen and goes on the shelf for weeks to

> > > months,

> > > the anythocyanin level will drop to levels below that of 5.7 +/- .5

> > > (according to the decreasing trend).

> > >

> > > This study was also ex vivo. But from the results, we can see that a

> > > product which is not kept consistently frozen, does not have any

> > > significant

> > > increase in anthocyanins than a product which is untreated and dried

> (ie.

> > > organic dried gou qi zi).

> > >

> > > So, for now, I'll stick to the dried gou qi zi.

> > > If you can find some fresh-frozen gou qi zi berries, that's another

> > story.

> > >

> > > Respectfully,

> > > K.

> > >

> > > On Thu, Aug 21, 2008 at 10:47 AM, (AT) (DOT)

com>wrote:

> > >

> > > > Dear Kokko,

> > > >

> > > > Studies do show that drying decreases anthocyanin content in fruit.

> > > > See:(http://www.pubmedce ntral.nih. gov/articlerende r.fcgi?artid=

> > > 1082901

> > >

> > > > And again the problem I have with ORAC scoring is that it just

> measures

> > > in

> > > > vitro, not in vivo. The amount of grape and pomegranate juice added

> to

> > Go

> > > > Chi IMO is statistically insignificant (3%) and is added to enhance

> > > flavor.

> > > > Of course, this could present a problem to someone hypersensitive

> > > > to pomegranates and/or grapes (I have two such patients!)

> > > >

> > > > Your concerns, I think, are one of the reasons that Freelife has

> > > conducted

> > > > other clinical studies, and I await the published results of the two

> > > > additional studies submitted to peer-review journals which should be

> > out

> > > > before the end of the year which I referred to earlier: The immune

> > study

> > > > testing and comparing the significant difference of three markers in

> > vivo

> > > :

> > > > lymphocytes, IL-2 and IgG, and the antioxidant study testing and

> > > comparing,

> > > > again, in vivo levels of SOD, GSH-Px and MDA.

> > > >

> > > > Concerning the cost, they claim that the costs involved in their

> > > production

> > > > are " higher than any other, as we are the only company that is using

> > > fresh

> > > > berries and not dried. The logistics of transporting and quickly

> > > processing

> > > > our berries in rural northern China are daunting.... " That doesn't

> > seem

> > > > unreasonable to me, assuming that what they are claiming is true. It

> is

> > > > also telling, I think, that they are investing a significant amount

> of

> > > > their budget to research and development in order to support their

> > claims

> > > > scientifically. I think that this also is unique for companies

> hawking

> > a

> > > > product.

> > > >

> > > > Again, the two additional studies have been presented and will be

> > > published

> > > > shortly, apparently. They say that other studies are forthcoming.

> > > >

> > > > As always, I appreciate your insightful questions and desire to

> > reinforce

> > > > scientific validation of our wonderful medicine.

> > > >

> > > > All the best,

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Yehuda

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Yehuda,

> > > > Thanks for relaying this info to the group.

> > > > I'm not convinced that the fresh puree that has been reconstituted,

> > > > bottled,

> > > > shipped and sitting on a non-refrigerated shelf is going to have more

> > > > nutritional value than the dried fruit that can be eaten whole or

> > > decocted

> > > > immediately be a patient or practitioner.

> > > > There was a clinical study done to compare the " Antioxidant capacity

> > and

> > > > phenolic content of grapes, sun-dried raisins, and golden raisins and

> > > their

> > > > effect on ex vivo serum antioxidant capacity. "

> > > >

> > > > " The objectives of this study were to compare the antioxidant

> capacity

> > > and

> > > > phenolic content of green Thompson seedless grapes (the most common

> > > variety

> > > > of grapes consumed in the United States), sun-dried raisins, and

> golden

> > > > raisins (both produced from Thompson seedless grapes) and to observe

> > the

> > > > effects of their consumption over 4 weeks in 15 healthy human males

> > with

> > > a

> > > > cross-over design. The oxygen radical absorbance capacity (ORAC)

> > > (positive

> > > > statistical significance for grapes after 2 weeks and golden raisins

> > > after

> > > > 3

> > > > weeks), serum oxidation (positive statistical significance for golden

> > > > raisin

> > > > lag time after 4 weeks), total phenolics (no significant effects),

> and

> > > > C-reactive protein (no significant effects) were monitored. "

> > > >

> > > > *The conclusions from the study were that, " Golden raisins had the

> > > highest

> > > > antioxidant capacity and phenolic content. " *

> > > > http://cat.inist. fr/?aModele= afficheN & cpsidt=19186324

> > > >

> > > > So, more clinical research needs to be done to be convincing that the

> > > > Go-chi

> > > > juice is more beneficial than the traditional dried berries,

> especially

> > > for

> > > > the price differential.

> > > > If raisins have similar or even higher antioxidant profiles than the

> > > fresh

> > > > grapes from which they were derived, why pay 10 times more for the

> same

> > > > stuff in a bottle? (Since these fresh gou qi zi vs dried gou qi zi

> > > studies

> > > > have not been published, how can we truly know other than make

> > > > speculations,

> > > > as the Go-chi juice sales representative has done)

> > > >

> > > > Also, since grape and pomegranate juice are added to the puree for

> the

> > > > Go-chi juice,

> > > > doesn't that skew the results for the studies, since it has been long

> > > > verified that grape and pomegranate juices are among the highest ORAC

> > > > scored

> > > > foods? That doesn't give credence to " Go-chi " juice, but the power of

> > > > grape and pomegranate juices mixed with Gou qi zi (which has already

> > been

> > > > validated by traditional use).

> > > >

> > > > What if I chewed dried gou qi zi mixing it with my salivary enzymes,

> > > > instead

> > > > of having a processing blade slice it and then have it take weeks to

> > > months

> > > > to get to my mouth?

> > > >

> > > > Without this evidence, it would be difficult for me to sell the

> > " Go-chi "

> > > > product instead of giving my patients a pound of Organic dried Gou qi

> > zi.

> > > >

> > > > Respectfully,

> > > > K.

> > > >

> > > > On Thu, Aug 21, 2008 at 4:34 AM, (AT) (DOT)

com>wrote:

> > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Dear colleagues,

> > > > >

> > > > > About two weeks ago, I wrote to you asking for your feedback

> > concerning

> > > > > Gou Qi Zi juice sold as GoChi by Freelife. I had a number of

> > questions

> > > > and

> > > > > doubts about the product, and as I expressed, the concept of

> > > multi-level

> > > > > marketing I find abhorrent. I took your questions as well as my

> own,

> > > and

> > > > > presented them to the Freelife's chief products officer. Below are

> my

> > > > > questions and the answers I received:

> > > > >

> > > > > Q.It would be wise to have research done not by an employee of

> > > Freelife.

> > > > > It gives the impression of being jaded.

> > > > >

> > > > > A. Like all peer-reviewed journals, the Journal of Alternative and

> > > > > Complementary Medicine blinds their expert judges, so they had no

> > idea

> > > > that

> > > > > the study was performed by the eminent Dr. Amagase and Dr. Nance.

> > > > Regardless

> > > > > of who designs or conducts a study, the fairness and honesty are

> > > > guaranteed

> > > > > by randomizing, double-blinding and placebo control. In our second

> > and

> > > > third

> > > > > studies, Dr. Amagase was a corresponding author and did not conduct

> > the

> > > > > study. We have other unreleased studies that have been conducted

> > around

> > > > the

> > > > > world by members of our independent Scientific Advisory Board.

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Q. To be really considered seriously by the scientific community,

> > > studies

> > > > > should certainly be for longer than two weeks and they should be

> > > > conducted

> > > > > by objective third parties who do not have a vested interest in

> their

> > > > > validation.

> > > > >

> > > > > A. We respectfully disagree. For years, our customers had been

> > telling

> > > us

> > > > > that they were getting remarkable results from our product within

> two

> > > > weeks

> > > > > or less. Frankly, we didn't believe them because there was nothing

> in

> > > the

> > > > > history of Traditional to support this. But, then

> > > again,

> > > > > goji's history in TCM has been in the form of dried berries, and

> our

> > > > product

> > > > > is the first ever to be made from fresh berries, and therefore

> > delivers

> > > > far

> > > > > more of the goji berry's bioactive polysaccharides. And so, we

> > decided

> > > to

> > > > > see if our customers were really experiencing these reported

> benefits

> > > or

> > > > if

> > > > > they were simply experiencing a placebo effect. We designed and

> > > conducted

> > > > a

> > > > > 14 day randomized, double-blind, placebo controlled study and found

> > > that

> > > > our

> > > > > customers were not crazy after all. The peer review judges at the

> > > medical

> > > > > journal that accepted and published our study had no problem with

> its

> > > 14

> > > > day

> > > > > duration, or that it was conducted on FreeLife

> > > > > employees. Our second and third studies were conducted for 30 days

> > > each,

> > > > > and on larger populations who had no knowledge of FreeLife or our

> > > > products.

> > > > > Other ongoing and planned studies are at 60 and 90 day duration.

> > > > >

> > > > > Q. These studies are very important to me and I would like to know

> > when

> > > > > they will be published and authenticated.

> > > > >

> > > > > A. They are undergoing the peer review process at two separate

> > > journals,

> > > > > which can take several month. We can't disclose the names of the

> > > journals

> > > > > because they have prohibited us from doing so, but we hope that

> both

> > > > studies

> > > > > will be accepted and published by the end of 2008.

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Q. It would be helpful to conduct studies comparing the efficacy of

> > > juice

> > > > > from fresh Gou Qi ZI berries as opposed to reconstituted juice from

> > > dried

> > > > > berries.

> > > > >

> > > > > A. There's nothing wrong with using the dried gou qi zi, as has

> been

> > > done

> > > > > in China for thousands of years. But, as with any other fruit, we

> > > believe

> > > > > that fresh is better than dried. I always use the example of grapes

> > vs.

> > > > > raisins. When we know that the reason that red grapes are healthy

> > > because

> > > > of

> > > > > the red pigment anthocyanin, how could one expect to get the same

> > > benefit

> > > > > from raisins or from raisin juice?

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Q. Can you tell me precisely where the Gou Qi Zi berry that

> Freelife

> > > uses

> > > > > comes from?

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > A. From the Yellow River floodplains of Ningxia Hui province in

> north

> > > > > central China. There are also some great berries grown in Xinjiang

> > > Uygur

> > > > > province in the west, but our problem with using them is that we

> > > wouldn't

> > > > be

> > > > > able to get the fresh berries transported to our juicing plant in

> > Gansu

> > > > > province quickly enough to prevent spoilage.

> > > > >

> > > > > Q. Why is the product called Himalayan Goji when it comes from

> > Ningxia

> > > > Hui

> > > > > province in north central China, and Xinjiang Uygur in the

> Northwest.

> > > > These

> > > > > are nowhere near the Himalayas?

> > > > >

> > > > > A. The Himalayan people were the originators of a comprehensive

> > > > > wellness-based system of medicine, which predates TCM. They taught

> > > their

> > > > > system to the visiting Chinese silk traders and scholars, who

> > > ultimately

> > > > > refined it. Several Lycium species were used by the Himalayans, and

> > > > > according to legend, the Chinese visitors took samples home with

> them

> > > and

> > > > > planted them in their own valleys in northern and northwestern

> China.

> > > The

> > > > > name " Himalayan Goji Juice " was meant only to honor the discoverers

> > of

> > > > the

> > > > > berry, but it was precisely because of confusion that we named our

> > new

> > > > > product " GoChi " .

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Q. I am confused about an apparent contradiction. From what you

> > > > > represented to me, and from what the brochure " The pursuit of

> > > perfection "

> > > > > states, the berries used are freshly picked, cold pressed and

> packed

> > in

> > > > > aseptic containers before they are shipped overseas (not

> > reconstituted!

> > > )

> > > > > Yet, in the first study by Amagase and Nance it states on page 404

> > > under

> > > > > Materials and Methods: " ...This test material is a liquid dietary

> > > > supplement

> > > > > containing reconstituted juice from fresh whole L. Barbarum fruit

> > with

> > > > 10%

> > > > > excipients by volume. " So which is it?

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > A.The berries are freshly picked in Ningxia Hui, and are then

> shipped

> > > to

> > > > > our modern processing facility in nearby Gansu province. There,

> they

> > > are

> > > > > cold-pressed, after which about 50% of the water is removed by cold

> > (36

> > > –

> > > > > 38ËšF), vacuum-assisted rotary thin-film evaporation. That gives us

> a

> > > > > concentrated puree (of a consistency somewhat like thin tomato

> > paste).

> > > We

> > > > do

> > > > > this because the harvesting season is only 3 months long (July –

> > > > September),

> > > > > and we must purchase and prepare enough goji puree to last the rest

> > of

> > > > the

> > > > > year (with accommodations for anticipated growth). Removing the

> water

> > > > makes

> > > > > it easier to store the puree under refrigerated conditions in

> > > aseptically

> > > > > sterilized totes. From a microbiological standpoint, removing the

> > water

> > > > also

> > > > > reduces water activity, meaning that the puree is far less likely

> to

> > > > harbor

> > > > > bacteria and other microbes. Once we are ready for final

> processing,

> > > the

> > > > > puree is air-freighted to our bottling plant in the U.S., where it

> is

> > > > > reconstituted (meaning that the exact amount of water that was

> > removed

> > > in

> > > > > Gansu is now replenished) , and then it is blended with a small

> > (<10%)

> > > of

> > > > > grape and pomegranate juice to ensure a uniform color (our berries

> > are

> > > > > picked for their polysaccharide content, not their color) and some

> > > > natural

> > > > > goji berry flavor (because once again, our berries have the highest

> > LBP

> > > > > content and not always the sweetest taste – the natural goji berry

> > > flavor

> > > > > ensures that every bottle will taste the same). Lastly, the product

> > is

> > > > > aseptically sterilized by a 4-second heat treatment (actually a

> > shvitz

> > > > with

> > > > > live steam) that only coagulates microbial proteins and does not

> harm

> > > the

> > > > > delicate LBP content. We proved this during our process design and

> > > > > validation phase, and we test every batch to ensure that our

> product

> > is

> > > > > pristine and fully potent.

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Q. Would it not be indicated to publish a research study comparing

> > the

> > > > > potency of fresh Gou Qi Zi juice as opposed to reconstituted juice

> > > > (assuming

> > > > > that Freelife Go Chi juice is indeed fresh!).

> > > > >

> > > > > A. This is a very interesting idea, and if we had an unlimited

> > research

> > > > > budget, I would love to do a study comparing our product with those

> > of

> > > > our

> > > > > competitors, all of whom are using dried berries. Unfortunately,

> > there

> > > is

> > > > a

> > > > > limit to the size of Ray and Kevin's wallet, but I can tell you

> this.

> > > We

> > > > > have analyzed every competing product that we have found on the

> > market,

> > > > > including Goji 100, Goji Gold, Goji Splash and the rest, and we

> have

> > > not

> > > > > found one that has even one-third of our LBP content. And we truly

> > > > believe,

> > > > > as do most researchers, that the power of goji lies in these

> amazing

> > > > > glycopeptides known as Lycium barbarum polysaccharides (why Chinese

> > > > > researchers named them polysaccharides is a mystery to me,

> especially

> > > > when

> > > > > it's the amino acids on the glycopeptide surface – and their strong

> > > > > resemblance to microbial antigens – that initiates and promotes

> > immune

> > > > > response). We also believe that there is significant LBP

> degradation

> > in

> > > > > dried berries. Is

> > > > > it enough to render them ineffective? No. The long history of use

> of

> > > gou

> > > > qi

> > > > > zi in TCM is testimony to its effectiveness, but we are seeing with

> > our

> > > > > product is quite remarkable. In China, people take gou qi zi over a

> > > > lifetime

> > > > > to achieve moderate improvement in disease resistance and health.

> But

> > > > we're

> > > > > seeing dramatic short-term improvement, and perhaps that's the

> > biggest

> > > > > difference in using fresh berries – more polysaccharide power.

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Q. Would you be able to share with me the comparative analysis of

> the

> > > > > other Goji juice products?

> > > > >

> > > > > A. Sorry, but that information is highly confidential. Our

> philosophy

> > > is

> > > > > that we would rather promote our product based on its clinically

> > > > > demonstrated benefit rather than by slamming our competitors.

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Q. Can you explain in detail how the 90 day money back guarantee

> > works.

> > > I

> > > > > understand that if not satisfied than when 90 days worth of bottles

> > are

> > > > > returned, the amount paid for them will be refunded in full,

> correct?

> > > > > Well, first of all, I understand that this is based upon drinking 4

> > oz

> > > > > per day, but how many bottles does that mean? Also, what if two or

> > > three

> > > > > family members have been drinking the Go Chi juice, and none of

> them

> > > are

> > > > > satisfied, if all three return their bottles will they receive the

> > same

> > > > > refund?

> > > > >

> > > > > A. FreeLife's no risk guarantee is just that: If you are

> dissatisfied

> > > > > with our product for any reason, return it within 90 days and

> receive

> > a

> > > > > 100% refund, even if the bottle is empty! If you join FreeLife and

> > you

> > > > > decide it is not for you even after 90 days, just let Freelife know

> > > that

> > > > you

> > > > > wish to cancel. Freelife will " refund your money less a 10%

> handling

> > > fee

> > > > for

> > > > > all resalable product and sales aids you purchased within one year

> of

> > > > your

> > > > > decision to cancel " .

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Q. What are the production costs that are involved, and why such an

> > > > > enormous price per bottle. Please show me how what is charged is

> not

> > a

> > > > > reflection of a price which is inflated to benefit those higher up

> in

> > > the

> > > > > Multi-level marketing chain?

> > > > >

> > > > > A. The cost of our product is far higher than any other, as we are

> > the

> > > > > only company that is using fresh berries and not dried. The

> logistics

> > > of

> > > > > transporting and quickly processing our berries in rural northern

> > China

> > > > are

> > > > > daunting, and are very costly. Also, we would ask that you consider

> > the

> > > > > millions of dollars that we are spending on clinical research and

> > > > charitable

> > > > > works. When compared to products such as Goji 100, we are

> > competitively

> > > > > priced. We feel no reason to compete with the low-grade goji

> products

> > > > sold

> > > > > at deep discount in Wal-Mart and other outlets. We truly believe

> that

> > > > GoChi

> > > > > provides outstanding value for the money, even at the full retail

> > > price.

> > > > > However, many of our Marketing Executives receive rebates and

> bonuses

> > > > that

> > > > > result in them paying little or nothing for their product. Our

> > > > compensation

> > > > > plan benefits everyone who chooses to pursue our business

> > opportunity,

> > > > and

> > > > > it is by far the most generous pay plan in the industry.

> > > > >

> > > > > Q. Would it not be prudent for Freelife to donate some of their

> > profits

> > > > > back to the Chinese Medical community, such as to the TCM medical

> > > > schools,

> > > > > community clinics, research facilities, etc. The Chinese medical

> > > > community

> > > > > is an incredible potential ally, for sales referrals, and medical

> > > > > validation. Yet, thus far, the community views GoChi with much

> > > scepticism

> > > > > and distrust. As I think I have indicated to you, if I believe in a

> > > > product

> > > > > and receive satisfactory answers to my question, I will promote it.

> I

> > > can

> > > > > assure you that the same is true industry wide, but good will needs

> > to

> > > be

> > > > > cultivated. Comments?

> > > > >

> > > > > A. We have donate generously from our profits to our worldwide

> > GojiKids

> > > > > foundation, and a good amount of money has been spent in the areas

> of

> > > > > Ningxia Hui and Gansu provinces where our berries are grown and

> > juiced.

> > > > > Perhaps some day we will be able to expand our charitable efforts

> > > beyond

> > > > > children's relief efforts, but for now, this is where we are

> > dedicating

> > > > our

> > > > > dollars and our time.

> > > > >

> > > > > Q. It is customary for suppliers of medicinals, nutraceuticals, and

> > > other

> > > > > health products to offer licensed practitioners professional

> > discounts.

> > > > Why

> > > > > is that not the policy of Freelife?

> > > > >

> > > > > A. The suppliers that you mention in the practitioner channel have

> a

> > > > > completely different sales and marketing structure, and our plan is

> > > > simply

> > > > > not optimized to favor one class of customers at the expense of

> > others.

> > > > As

> > > > > stated previously, we do offer many opportunities for product

> > rebates,

> > > > > volume-driven bonuses and substantial income. I'm just not the

> person

> > > to

> > > > > discuss them with you, as it's not my area of competence.

> > > > >

> > > > > Q. I am concerned with the hyperbole that has accompanied some of

> the

> > > > sales

> > > > > people I have come in contact with. Some of the claims and

> > testimonials

> > > > > border on health claims which contravene FDA regulations. Please

> see

> > > this

> > > > > link to the letter from the FDA.

> > > > > http://www.fda. gov/cder/ warn/cyber/ 2006/CL226e. pdf How do you

> > > > reconcile

> > > > > this?

> > > > >

> > > > > A. I agree completely, and it bothers me tremendously that some of

> > our

> > > > > people are trying to market our product as some kind of miracle

> cure.

> > > > This

> > > > > letter was sent to a FreeLife distributor, not to FreeLife. We have

> a

> > > > strict

> > > > > policy against making illegal medical claims for our product, and

> we

> > > > > terminate any distributor who fails to take down non-compliant

> > websites

> > > > or

> > > > > who distributes non-compliant materials. This is why FreeLife has

> > never

> > > > > received a warning letter from FDA or a state Attorney-General. You

> > > will

> > > > not

> > > > > find anything on a FreeLife website – past, present, or future –

> that

> > > > says

> > > > > anything about using our products for the treatment or cure of any

> > > > disease,

> > > > > and we strongly recommend to our Marketing Executives that they

> speak

> > > > only

> > > > > of the 19 clinically demonstrated benefits of GoChi and avoid

> trying

> > to

> > > > > promote this product as some type of cure-all. We have no proof

> that

> > it

> > > > is

> > > > > effective against any disease or condition, and we have no

> intention

> > > > > of studying it in any of these areas. Why? Because, in the eyes of

> > FDA,

> > > > > that would re-classify our product as an unapproved new drug. It

> > > > currently

> > > > > costs about $600 million and 10 years to register a new drug in

> this

> > > > > country, and you can't sell drugs through Network Marketing, so can

> > you

> > > > see

> > > > > why we would never go that route? We do believe, though that GoChi

> is

> > > the

> > > > > best gou qi zi product on the planet, and we are certain that it

> will

> > > be

> > > > a

> > > > > valuable addition to the armamentarium of any TCM practitioner.

> And,

> > > > > although I wish that I could teach restraint to those who would

> have

> > > you

> > > > > believe that GoChi can grow new limbs, I hope that you will forgive

> > > them

> > > > and

> > > > > understand that their exuberance arises from having seen remarkable

> > > > changes

> > > > > in themselves and in those dear to them as a result of using the

> > > > > product. But this is not how we promote our product. GoChi has been

> > > > > clinically demonstrated against placebo in a published randomized,

> > > > > double-blind study to

> > > > > significantly improve sleep, energy, mental sharpness, feelings of

> > > calm,

> > > > > contentment, good health and happiness, to help relieve stress and

> to

> > > > > improve regularity. Blood tests have shown dramatic increases in

> the

> > > > body's

> > > > > ability to defend itself against toxic free radicals and to improve

> > > > immune

> > > > > defenses. Isn't that enough? If people's medical conditions are

> > > improving

> > > > > while taking GoChi, it's because they are becoming more

> > > immunocompetent.

> > > > The

> > > > > immune system is G-d's miracle, not the goji berry. GoChi is simply

> > the

> > > > > humble facilitator that restores balance to immunity. That is

> > entirely

> > > > > consistent with the use of gou qi zi in Traditional Chinese

> Medicine.

> > > > >

> > > > > As many of you expressed, I too, harbor a natural scepticism

> towards

> > > > > products that make spectacular claims. But, in my opinion, the

> tough

> > > > > questions I asked were answered satisfactorily, and I will now

> > > recommend

> > > > > this product to those patients who are liver yin and blood, and

> > Kidney

> > > > yin

> > > > > and jing vacuitous.

> > > > > The product appears to have quality and the guarantee is

> reasonable.

> > If

> > > > > any of you are interested in it feel free to write or call me.

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Sincerely,

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > www.traditionaljewi shmedicine. net

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

[Guest guest]

Hi Kokko,

 

a couple of points of disagreement.

1.  From what I have read, primarily with the exception of tropical fruits,

which break down protein and particularly bacteria which are prevalent in the

tropical environment, almost all plant enzymes are not beneficial for humans. 

Consider the fact that raw vegetables are cold, damp hard to digest and damage

the spleen. Why is it  that Chinese medical dietetics encourages cooking?

 

2.  You make it sound as if any product that isn't raw lacks any nutritional

value and  essentially is a dead food.  I am not a nutritionist, nor a

biochemist, and have very little background in biochemistry, but as a

practitioner of Chinese medicine, I constantly observe patients who have gas a

bloating and are raw food enthusiast.  This obviously means that they are not

being absorbed.  Is that healthy?  The processing  of GoChi, as we read, very

quickly is heated up to a relatively low temperature to kill any bacteria which

could denature or cause spoilage, and then rapidly cooled off to.   The effect

allows the product to be preservative free.  I thank that that's not a bad

thing at all.  Obviously, it's not a dead food at all, because otherwise why

would it need refrigeration upon opening?  Meanwhile there are no preservatives

at all. 

 

Listen, the proof will be in the pudding.   Everything is conjecture until

the 2 studies are published.  Meanwhile they have taken great steps to make

sure tbat the product is prepared in the most bioavailable and effective

way.      And if anyone isn't satisfied, there is a 90 money back

guarantee, no questions asked.

 

Yehuda 

 

 

 

 

 

 

--- On Tue, 8/26/08, <johnkokko wrote:

 

<johnkokko

Re: Follow up questions on Gou Qi Zi juice-GoChi : Enzyme

loss with Pasteurization

Chinese Medicine ,

 

Tuesday, August 26, 2008, 8:40 PM

 

 

 

 

 

 

Yehuda,

 

Thanks for going out of your way in getting this info, but the more I learn

about the " Go-chi " juice,

the less I seriously want to buy it.

 

Why eliminate the naturally occurring enzymes and antioxidants? That

doesn't make any sense.

By sterilizing and denaturing the fruit.... what's left of the natural

medicinal?

The only reason I could see in eliminating enzymes is to be able to keep the

product on the shelf longer (dead energy)

 

So, this goes entirely against the basic premise of buying the GoChi product

because it supposedly comes from " fresh " fruits, which have been sterilized,

deproteined and lack crucial antioxidants.

What I am missing here?

 

1. They say that GoChi juice has no enzymes = proteins :

" this process would not be suitable if GoChi contained protein, as it would

also be coagulated, but GoChi contains no protein. "

 

2. and GoChi juice does not have crucial antioxidants:

" As for the antioxidants in goji, they are largely carotenoids (zeaxanthin,

lutein and lycopene) and they are not found in any considerable quantity in

the juice, as they reside mainly in the skins and seeds of the berry, which

we exclude from GoChi. "

 

Zeaxanthin and Lutein are the two caroteinoids inside the retina of the eye

(these are reasons why Gou qi zi benefits the eyes).

 

" Within the central macula <http://en.wikipedia .org/wiki/ Macula>, zeaxanthin

is the dominant component, whereas in the peripheral retina,

lutein<http://en.wikipedia .org/wiki/ Lutein>predominates. ..There is

epidemiological <http://en.wikipedia .org/wiki/ Epidemiology> evidence of a

relationship between low plasma

<http://en.wikipedia .org/wiki/ Blood_plasma>concentrations of lutein

and zeaxanthin on the one hand, and the risk of

developing age-related macular

degeneration<http://en.wikipedia .org/wiki/ Age-related_ macular_degenera

tion>(AMD)

on the other. Some studies support the view that supplemental lutein

and/or zeaxanthin help protect against AMD. There is also epidemiological

evidence that increasing lutein and zeaxanthin intake lowers the risk of

cataract <http://en.wikipedia .org/wiki/ Cataract> development. [*citation

needed <http://en.wikipedia .org/wiki/ Wikipedia: Citation_ needed>*] On

September 10, 2007, in a 6-year study,

researchers<http://en.wikipedia .org/wiki/ Researchers>,

led by John Paul SanGiovanni of the National Eye

Institute<http://en.wikipedia .org/wiki/ National_ Eye_Institute>,

Maryland <http://en.wikipedia .org/wiki/ Maryland> found that

Lutein<http://en.wikipedia .org/wiki/ Lutein>and zeaxanthin (

nutrients <http://en.wikipedia .org/wiki/ Nutrients> in

eggs<http://en.wikipedia .org/wiki/ Egg_%28food% 29>,

spinach <http://en.wikipedia .org/wiki/ Spinach> and other

green<http://en.wikipedia .org/wiki/ Green>

vegetables <http://en.wikipedia .org/wiki/ Vegetables>) protect against

blindness <http://en.wikipedia .org/wiki/ Blindness> (macular

degeneration<http://en.wikipedia .org/wiki/ Macular_degenera tion>),

affecting 1.2 million Americans <http://en.wikipedia .org/wiki/ United_States>,

mostly after age 65. Lutein and zeaxanthin reduce the risk of

AMD<http://en.wikipedia .org/wiki/ AMD>(

journal <http://en.wikipedia .org/wiki/ Journal> Archives of

Ophthalmology<http://en.wikipedia .org/wiki/ Archives_ of_Ophthalmology>).

Foods considered good sources of the nutrients also include

kale<http://en.wikipedia .org/wiki/ Kale>,

turnip <http://en.wikipedia .org/wiki/ Turnip>

greens<http://en.wikipedia .org/wiki/ Greens>,

collard <http://en.wikipedia .org/wiki/ Collard> greens, romaine

lettuce<http://en.wikipedia .org/wiki/ Romaine_lettuce>,

broccoli <http://en.wikipedia .org/wiki/ Broccoli>,

zucchini<http://en.wikipedia .org/wiki/ Zucchini>,

corn <http://en.wikipedia .org/wiki/ Corn>,

garden<http://en.wikipedia .org/wiki/ Garden>

peas <http://en.wikipedia .org/wiki/ Peas> and Brussels

sprouts<http://en.wikipedia .org/wiki/ Brussels_ sprouts>

..[1] <http://en.wikipedia .org/wiki/ Zeaxanthin# cite_note- PMID17846363- 0>

http://en.wikipedia .org/wiki/ Zeaxanthin

 

Lycopene: " Given its antioxidant properties, substantial scientific and

clinical research has been devoted to a possible correlation between

lycopene consumption and general health. Early research suggested some

amelioration of cardiovascular

disease<http://en.wikipedia .org/wiki/ Cardiovascular_ disease>,

cancer <http://en.wikipedia .org/wiki/ Cancer>,

diabetes<http://en.wikipedia .org/wiki/ Diabetes>,

osteoporosis <http://en.wikipedia .org/wiki/ Osteoporosis>, and even male

infertility <http://en.wikipedia .org/wiki/

Infertility>.[16] " <http://en.wikipedia .org/wiki/ Lycopene# cite_note- 15>

http://en.wikipedia .org/wiki/ Lycopene

 

?

 

On Tue, Aug 26, 2008 at 1:40 PM, >wrote:

 

> Kokko,

>

> Here's the answer to your questions on the processing:

>

> Could you elaborate on the proprietary aseptic sterilization?

>

> The unprocessed juice is transported through a narrow-diameter stainless

> steel tube that is in turn surrounded by a jacketing tube containing

> pressurized live steam. This rapidly heats the product to about 250ËšF for 4

> seconds, which is all that is required to coagulate microbial proteins. This

> process would not be suitable if GoChi contained protein, as it would also

> be coagulated, but GoChi contains no protein.

>

> The now-sterile juice continues through the stainless steel tube which is

> now surrounded by an outer jacket filled with refrigerant, quickly lowering

> the temperature of the juice to 38ËšF within 7 seconds. Although our active

> principles (Lycium barbarum polysaccharides) are heat labile, the 4-second

> duration does no significant harm, and we have proven this by extensive pre-

> and post-sterilization testing.

>

>

> Is the product irradiated? If this is proprietary information, will they

> keep that secret?

> How does their sterilization process target only microbes and bacteria and

> keep antioxidants and enzymes intact?

>

> No it is not irradiated. As far as enzymes are concerned, with rare

> exceptions (e.g., the sulfhydryl proteases in pineapple, papaya, fig), there

> are no enzymes worth conserving in most fruits. This is where we strongly

> disagree with the raw food movement, who believe erroneously that there are

> beneficial enzymes in raw foods. This belief, which arises from some

> philosophical works from the 1920s, has been thoroughly discredited by

> science. Ironically, raw foods contain enzymes that do not promote

> digestion, but which rather inhibit it, because that is their function in

> the plant. They are anti-nutrients, which exist to prevent the premature

> breakdown of starches and proteins until they are needed to nurture the

> germinated seedling. Once sprouted or germinated, beneficial enzymes are

> generated (such as the maltase in barley). But until the time of

> germination, the native anti-nutrient enzymes in most raw plant foods will,

> if taken into the body in

> sufficient quantity, block the absorption and utilization of ingested

> carbohydrates, proteins and fats. These anti-nutrients are found in largest

> quantity in legumes and in non-sprouted grains, which is why they should

> never be consumed in raw form.

>

> As for the antioxidants in goji, they are largely carotenoids (zeaxanthin,

> lutein and lycopene) and they are not found in any considerable quantity in

> the juice, as they reside mainly in the skins and seeds of the berry, which

> we exclude from GoChi. But we do not discard the skins and seeds, and in

> fact, we are about to launch a new product next month that will highlight

> these important carotenoids. The antioxidant power of GoChi is not to be

> found in the bottle. Rather, we have clinically demonstrated that the LBP in

> GoChi is able to significantly increase the body's production of the

> endogenous antioxidants superoxide dismutase and glutathione peroxidase, and

> we believe that this is far more valuable to human health than merely

> introducing fruit polyphenols which may or may not have systemic effect.

>

>

> www.traditionaljewi shmedicine. net

>

>

> --- On Mon, 8/25/08, <johnkokko (AT) gmail (DOT) com<johnkokko%40gmail. com>>

> wrote:

>

> <johnkokko (AT) gmail (DOT) com <johnkokko%40gmail. com>>

> Re: Follow up questions on Gou Qi Zi juice-GoChi : Enzyme

> loss with Pasteurization

> <Traditional_

Chinese_Medicine %40. com>

> Monday, August 25, 2008, 12:47 PM

>

> Yehuda,

>

> Could you ask them to elaborate on their proprietary aseptic sterilization

> process?

> Is the product irradiated? If this is proprietary information, will they

> keep that secret?

> How does their sterilization process target only microbes and bacteria and

> keep antioxidants and enzymes intact?

>

> K.

>

> On Mon, Aug 25, 2008 at 10:46 AM, >wrote:

>

> > Kokko,

> >

> > Here's what they say:

> >

> > Though their original formula Himalayan Goji Juice contained less than

> > one-tenth of 1% of sodium benzoate and potassium sorbate...

> > " GoChi is not perishable, because it contains absolutely no spoilage

> > organisms. In fact, it contains no microbes at all, thanks to our

> > proprietary aseptic sterilization process. Like any fresh food, it should

> be

> > refrigerated promptly after opening, should be kept tightly closed except

> > for when it is being poured, and should be consumed within 30 days of

> > opening. "

> >

> >

> >

> > www.traditionaljewi shmedicine. net

> >

> >

> > --- On Mon, 8/25/08, <johnkokko (AT) gmail (DOT) com<johnkokko% 40gmail.

> com>>

> > wrote:

> >

> > <johnkokko (AT) gmail (DOT) com <johnkokko%40gmail. com>>

> > Re: Follow up questions on Gou Qi Zi juice-GoChi : Enzyme

> > loss with Pasteurization

> > <Traditional_

> Chinese_Medicine %40. com>

> > Monday, August 25, 2008, 10:19 AM

> >

> > Yehuda,

> >

> > That's good to know.

> > But, how do they keep the product from bacterial and mold build-up

> without

> > preservatives?

> > Or are there some preservatives, since it isn't heat pasteurized?

> > K.

> >

> > On Mon, Aug 25, 2008 at 9:49 AM, (AT) (DOT)

com>wrote:

> >

> > > Kokko,

> > >

> > > I goofed, and you're right. GoChi is NOT pasteurized or heat processed.

> I

> > > had assumed that it was, but when I check carefully one of their

> websites

> > I

> > > saw the following:

> > >

> > > " Our goji berries are not heat processed or pasteurized like others on

> > the

> > > market as this would destroy the delicate balance of glyconutrients,

> > which

> > > is what makes this product superior to any other copy cat on the

> market. "

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > www.traditionaljewi shmedicine. net

> > >

> > >

> > > --- On Mon, 8/25/08, <johnkokko (AT) gmail (DOT) com<johnkokko%

> 40gmail.

> > com>>

> > > wrote:

> > >

> > > <johnkokko (AT) gmail (DOT) com <johnkokko%40gmail. com>>

> > > Re: Follow up questions on Gou Qi Zi juice-GoChi :

> Enzyme

> > > loss with Pasteurization

> > > <Traditional_

> > Chinese_Medicine %40. com>

> > > Monday, August 25, 2008, 9:19 AM

> > >

> > >

> > > Yehuda,

> > >

> > > Thanks for bringing that up... Flash pasteurization is HEAT (70 degrees

> > > celsius) pasteurization,

> > > which denatures (deactivates) crucial enzymes which make the Gou qi zi

> > > traditionally effective.

> > > An example of a Gou qi zi enzyme are cerebrosides:

> > > which " was shown to protect liver cells from a toxic dry-cleaning

> > chemical

> > > better than the well-known liver protectant milk thistle "

> > > http://www.smart- publications. com/overall_ health/goji_ berry.php

> > >

> > > This is also a good reason to not decoct the berry (heat deactivation

> of

> > > enzymes), but just to chew it.

> > >

> > > This is a disadvantage of the juices that you get at the store or

> through

> > a

> > > MLM group.

> > > Better just to make a smoothie at home with the whole fruit (dried or

> > not).

> > >

> > > Usually when the herbs are dried by traditional methods via

> farmers/herb

> > > salers, they are dried at lower heats (below pasteurization levels) or

> in

> > > the sun (below 70 degrees celsius = 158 degrees fahrenheit)

> > > The regulatory flash pasteurization by the Go-Chi company neutralizes

> > their

> > > fresh picked puree process, in relation to enzymes,

> > > which are a crucial component to the Gou Qi zi's legendary powers.

> > > Furthermore, when the product sits on the shelf (unfrozen) for weeks to

> > > months, the antioxidant load also decreases.

> > >

> > > K.

> > >

> > > On Mon, Aug 25, 2008 at 1:02 AM, (AT) (DOT)

com>wrote:

> > >

> > > > Hi Kokko,

> > > >

> > > > The point of the study was that drying significantly lowers the

> > > > berry anthocyanin content. Now you are contending that it is a

> stretch

> > to

> > > > apply the fresh standards to Go Chi, which is essentially pureed and

> > then

> > > > flash pasteurized. We will wait for the studies to be published, but

> my

> > > > point was that assuming that their process is able to sustain the

> > benefit

> > > of

> > > > the fresh fruit, then it would be significantly more beneficial than

> > > dried

> > > > Gou Qi Zi.

> > > >

> > > > We'll see!

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > www.traditionaljewi shmedicine. net

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > --- On Fri, 8/22/08, <johnkokko (AT) gmail (DOT) com<johnkokko%

> > 40gmail.

> > > com>>

> > > > wrote:

> > > >

> > > > <johnkokko (AT) gmail (DOT) com <johnkokko%40gmail. com>>

> > > > Re: Follow up questions on Gou Qi Zi juice-GoChi

> > > > <Traditional_

> > > Chinese_Medicine %40. com>

> > >

> > > > Friday, August 22, 2008, 5:03 PM

> > > >

> > > > Yehuda,

> > > >

> > > > Thanks for the pubmed study and am excited to see the forthcoming

> > > studies.

> > > > Of course, any company would only publish results which would support

> > the

> > > > sale of their own product,

> > > > so hopefully we can see the entire results, irrespective of the

> > outcome,

> > > in

> > > > the name of science.

> > > >

> > > > If we go by content as the basis of our evaluation of the Go-chi

> > > > product,

> > > > The " Change of Total Anthocyanins in Blueberries and Their

> Antioxidant

> > > > Effect After Drying and Freezing " study that you linked for us

> > > > had these results:

> > > >

> > > > * " Table 1*

> > > >

> > > > Anthocyanin content in evaluated samples.

> > > > Blueberry samplesTotal anthocyaninsmg/ g dry matter

> > > > ------------ --------- ---------

> > > > Fresh blueberries (FR0)7.2 ± 0.5a**Fresh blueberries 2-week5.7 ±

> > > > 0.5abstorage

> > > > at 5°C (FR2)Untreated dried (UN)4.3 ± 0.1bcPretreated dried (PT)3.7 ±

> > > > 0.2cStored

> > > > frozen for 1 month (FZ1M)8.1 ± 0.1aStored frozen for 3 months

> (FZ3M)7.9

> > ±

> > > > 1.3a "

> > > >

> > > > Which one of these would the Go-chi product fall under? Once the

> > product

> > > is

> > > > put on the shelf even after initial freezing, the anthocyanin level

> > falls

> > > > to

> > > > levels of those of " Untreated Dried " .

> > > > 5.7 +/- .5 (if stored at 5 degrees celsius, which I don't believe the

> > > > Go-chi product is consistently stored at, because of transportation,

> > > > distribution to customers via vendors via outlets and storage) vs.

> 4.3

> > > +/-

> > > > .1 (if untreated and dried)

> > > > This anthocyanin content difference is not significant.

> > > > When the product becomes unfrozen and goes on the shelf for weeks to

> > > > months,

> > > > the anythocyanin level will drop to levels below that of 5.7 +/- .5

> > > > (according to the decreasing trend).

> > > >

> > > > This study was also ex vivo. But from the results, we can see that a

> > > > product which is not kept consistently frozen, does not have any

> > > > significant

> > > > increase in anthocyanins than a product which is untreated and dried

> > (ie.

> > > > organic dried gou qi zi).

> > > >

> > > > So, for now, I'll stick to the dried gou qi zi.

> > > > If you can find some fresh-frozen gou qi zi berries, that's another

> > > story.

> > > >

> > > > Respectfully,

> > > > K.

> > > >

> > > > On Thu, Aug 21, 2008 at 10:47 AM, (AT) (DOT)

com>wrote:

> > > >

> > > > > Dear Kokko,

> > > > >

> > > > > Studies do show that drying decreases anthocyanin content in fruit.

> > > > > See:(http://www.pubmedce ntral.nih. gov/articlerende r.fcgi?artid=

> > > > 1082901

> > > >

> > > > > And again the problem I have with ORAC scoring is that it just

> > measures

> > > > in

> > > > > vitro, not in vivo. The amount of grape and pomegranate juice added

> > to

> > > Go

> > > > > Chi IMO is statistically insignificant (3%) and is added to enhance

> > > > flavor.

> > > > > Of course, this could present a problem to someone hypersensitive

> > > > > to pomegranates and/or grapes (I have two such patients!)

> > > > >

> > > > > Your concerns, I think, are one of the reasons that Freelife has

> > > > conducted

> > > > > other clinical studies, and I await the published results of the

> two

> > > > > additional studies submitted to peer-review journals which should

> be

> > > out

> > > > > before the end of the year which I referred to earlier: The immune

> > > study

> > > > > testing and comparing the significant difference of three markers

> in

> > > vivo

> > > > :

> > > > > lymphocytes, IL-2 and IgG, and the antioxidant study testing and

> > > > comparing,

> > > > > again, in vivo levels of SOD, GSH-Px and MDA.

> > > > >

> > > > > Concerning the cost, they claim that the costs involved in their

> > > > production

> > > > > are " higher than any other, as we are the only company that is

> using

> > > > fresh

> > > > > berries and not dried. The logistics of transporting and quickly

> > > > processing

> > > > > our berries in rural northern China are daunting.... " That doesn't

> > > seem

> > > > > unreasonable to me, assuming that what they are claiming is true.

> It

> > is

> > > > > also telling, I think, that they are investing a significant amount

> > of

> > > > > their budget to research and development in order to support their

> > > claims

> > > > > scientifically. I think that this also is unique for companies

> > hawking

> > > a

> > > > > product.

> > > > >

> > > > > Again, the two additional studies have been presented and will be

> > > > published

> > > > > shortly, apparently. They say that other studies are forthcoming.

> > > > >

> > > > > As always, I appreciate your insightful questions and desire to

> > > reinforce

> > > > > scientific validation of our wonderful medicine.

> > > > >

> > > > > All the best,

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Yehuda

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Yehuda,

> > > > > Thanks for relaying this info to the group.

> > > > > I'm not convinced that the fresh puree that has been reconstituted,

> > > > > bottled,

> > > > > shipped and sitting on a non-refrigerated shelf is going to have

> more

> > > > > nutritional value than the dried fruit that can be eaten whole or

> > > > decocted

> > > > > immediately be a patient or practitioner.

> > > > > There was a clinical study done to compare the " Antioxidant

> capacity

> > > and

> > > > > phenolic content of grapes, sun-dried raisins, and golden raisins

> and

> > > > their

> > > > > effect on ex vivo serum antioxidant capacity. "

> > > > >

> > > > > " The objectives of this study were to compare the antioxidant

> > capacity

> > > > and

> > > > > phenolic content of green Thompson seedless grapes (the most common

> > > > variety

> > > > > of grapes consumed in the United States), sun-dried raisins, and

> > golden

> > > > > raisins (both produced from Thompson seedless grapes) and to

> observe

> > > the

> > > > > effects of their consumption over 4 weeks in 15 healthy human males

> > > with

> > > > a

> > > > > cross-over design. The oxygen radical absorbance capacity (ORAC)

> > > > (positive

> > > > > statistical significance for grapes after 2 weeks and golden

> raisins

> > > > after

> > > > > 3

> > > > > weeks), serum oxidation (positive statistical significance for

> golden

> > > > > raisin

> > > > > lag time after 4 weeks), total phenolics (no significant effects),

> > and

> > > > > C-reactive protein (no significant effects) were monitored. "

> > > > >

> > > > > *The conclusions from the study were that, " Golden raisins had the

> > > > highest

> > > > > antioxidant capacity and phenolic content. " *

> > > > > http://cat.inist. fr/?aModele= afficheN & cpsidt=19186324

> > > > >

> > > > > So, more clinical research needs to be done to be convincing that

> the

> > > > > Go-chi

> > > > > juice is more beneficial than the traditional dried berries,

> > especially

> > > > for

> > > > > the price differential.

> > > > > If raisins have similar or even higher antioxidant profiles than

> the

> > > > fresh

> > > > > grapes from which they were derived, why pay 10 times more for the

> > same

> > > > > stuff in a bottle? (Since these fresh gou qi zi vs dried gou qi zi

> > > > studies

> > > > > have not been published, how can we truly know other than make

> > > > > speculations,

> > > > > as the Go-chi juice sales representative has done)

> > > > >

> > > > > Also, since grape and pomegranate juice are added to the puree for

> > the

> > > > > Go-chi juice,

> > > > > doesn't that skew the results for the studies, since it has been

> long

> > > > > verified that grape and pomegranate juices are among the highest

> ORAC

> > > > > scored

> > > > > foods? That doesn't give credence to " Go-chi " juice, but the power

> of

> > > > > grape and pomegranate juices mixed with Gou qi zi (which has

> already

> > > been

> > > > > validated by traditional use).

> > > > >

> > > > > What if I chewed dried gou qi zi mixing it with my salivary

> enzymes,

> > > > > instead

> > > > > of having a processing blade slice it and then have it take weeks

> to

> > > > months

> > > > > to get to my mouth?

> > > > >

> > > > > Without this evidence, it would be difficult for me to sell the

> > > " Go-chi "

> > > > > product instead of giving my patients a pound of Organic dried Gou

> qi

> > > zi.

> > > > >

> > > > > Respectfully,

> > > > > K.

> > > > >

> > > > > On Thu, Aug 21, 2008 at 4:34 AM, (AT) (DOT)

com>wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Dear colleagues,

> > > > > >

> > > > > > About two weeks ago, I wrote to you asking for your feedback

> > > concerning

> > > > > > Gou Qi Zi juice sold as GoChi by Freelife. I had a number of

> > > questions

> > > > > and

> > > > > > doubts about the product, and as I expressed, the concept of

> > > > multi-level

> > > > > > marketing I find abhorrent. I took your questions as well as my

> > own,

> > > > and

> > > > > > presented them to the Freelife's chief products officer. Below

> are

> > my

> > > > > > questions and the answers I received:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Q.It would be wise to have research done not by an employee of

> > > > Freelife.

> > > > > > It gives the impression of being jaded.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > A. Like all peer-reviewed journals, the Journal of Alternative

> and

> > > > > > Complementary Medicine blinds their expert judges, so they had no

> > > idea

> > > > > that

> > > > > > the study was performed by the eminent Dr. Amagase and Dr. Nance.

> > > > > Regardless

> > > > > > of who designs or conducts a study, the fairness and honesty are

> > > > > guaranteed

> > > > > > by randomizing, double-blinding and placebo control. In our

> second

> > > and

> > > > > third

> > > > > > studies, Dr. Amagase was a corresponding author and did not

> conduct

> > > the

> > > > > > study. We have other unreleased studies that have been conducted

> > > around

> > > > > the

> > > > > > world by members of our independent Scientific Advisory Board.

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Q. To be really considered seriously by the scientific community,

> > > > studies

> > > > > > should certainly be for longer than two weeks and they should be

> > > > > conducted

> > > > > > by objective third parties who do not have a vested interest in

> > their

> > > > > > validation.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > A. We respectfully disagree. For years, our customers had been

> > > telling

> > > > us

> > > > > > that they were getting remarkable results from our product within

> > two

> > > > > weeks

> > > > > > or less. Frankly, we didn't believe them because there was

> nothing

> > in

> > > > the

> > > > > > history of Traditional to support this. But,

> then

> > > > again,

> > > > > > goji's history in TCM has been in the form of dried berries, and

> > our

> > > > > product

> > > > > > is the first ever to be made from fresh berries, and therefore

> > > delivers

> > > > > far

> > > > > > more of the goji berry's bioactive polysaccharides. And so, we

> > > decided

> > > > to

> > > > > > see if our customers were really experiencing these reported

> > benefits

> > > > or

> > > > > if

> > > > > > they were simply experiencing a placebo effect. We designed and

> > > > conducted

> > > > > a

> > > > > > 14 day randomized, double-blind, placebo controlled study and

> found

> > > > that

> > > > > our

> > > > > > customers were not crazy after all. The peer review judges at the

> > > > medical

> > > > > > journal that accepted and published our study had no problem with

> > its

> > > > 14

> > > > > day

> > > > > > duration, or that it was conducted on FreeLife

> > > > > > employees. Our second and third studies were conducted for 30

> days

> > > > each,

> > > > > > and on larger populations who had no knowledge of FreeLife or our

> > > > > products.

> > > > > > Other ongoing and planned studies are at 60 and 90 day duration.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Q. These studies are very important to me and I would like to

> know

> > > when

> > > > > > they will be published and authenticated.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > A. They are undergoing the peer review process at two separate

> > > > journals,

> > > > > > which can take several month. We can't disclose the names of the

> > > > journals

> > > > > > because they have prohibited us from doing so, but we hope that

> > both

> > > > > studies

> > > > > > will be accepted and published by the end of 2008.

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Q. It would be helpful to conduct studies comparing the efficacy

> of

> > > > juice

> > > > > > from fresh Gou Qi ZI berries as opposed to reconstituted juice

> from

> > > > dried

> > > > > > berries.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > A. There's nothing wrong with using the dried gou qi zi, as has

> > been

> > > > done

> > > > > > in China for thousands of years. But, as with any other fruit, we

> > > > believe

> > > > > > that fresh is better than dried. I always use the example of

> grapes

> > > vs.

> > > > > > raisins. When we know that the reason that red grapes are healthy

> > > > because

> > > > > of

> > > > > > the red pigment anthocyanin, how could one expect to get the same

> > > > benefit

> > > > > > from raisins or from raisin juice?

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Q. Can you tell me precisely where the Gou Qi Zi berry that

> > Freelife

> > > > uses

> > > > > > comes from?

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > A. From the Yellow River floodplains of Ningxia Hui province in

> > north

> > > > > > central China. There are also some great berries grown in

> Xinjiang

> > > > Uygur

> > > > > > province in the west, but our problem with using them is that we

> > > > wouldn't

> > > > > be

> > > > > > able to get the fresh berries transported to our juicing plant in

> > > Gansu

> > > > > > province quickly enough to prevent spoilage.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Q. Why is the product called Himalayan Goji when it comes from

> > > Ningxia

> > > > > Hui

> > > > > > province in north central China, and Xinjiang Uygur in the

> > Northwest.

> > > > > These

> > > > > > are nowhere near the Himalayas?

> > > > > >

> > > > > > A. The Himalayan people were the originators of a comprehensive

> > > > > > wellness-based system of medicine, which predates TCM. They

> taught

> > > > their

> > > > > > system to the visiting Chinese silk traders and scholars, who

> > > > ultimately

> > > > > > refined it. Several Lycium species were used by the Himalayans,

> and

> > > > > > according to legend, the Chinese visitors took samples home with

> > them

> > > > and

> > > > > > planted them in their own valleys in northern and northwestern

> > China.

> > > > The

> > > > > > name " Himalayan Goji Juice " was meant only to honor the

> discoverers

> > > of

> > > > > the

> > > > > > berry, but it was precisely because of confusion that we named

> our

> > > new

> > > > > > product " GoChi " .

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Q. I am confused about an apparent contradiction. From what you

> > > > > > represented to me, and from what the brochure " The pursuit of

> > > > perfection "

> > > > > > states, the berries used are freshly picked, cold pressed and

> > packed

> > > in

> > > > > > aseptic containers before they are shipped overseas (not

> > > reconstituted!

> > > > )

> > > > > > Yet, in the first study by Amagase and Nance it states on page

> 404

> > > > under

> > > > > > Materials and Methods: " ...This test material is a liquid dietary

> > > > > supplement

> > > > > > containing reconstituted juice from fresh whole L. Barbarum fruit

> > > with

> > > > > 10%

> > > > > > excipients by volume. " So which is it?

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > A.The berries are freshly picked in Ningxia Hui, and are then

> > shipped

> > > > to

> > > > > > our modern processing facility in nearby Gansu province. There,

> > they

> > > > are

> > > > > > cold-pressed, after which about 50% of the water is removed by

> cold

> > > (36

> > > > –

> > > > > > 38ËšF), vacuum-assisted rotary thin-film evaporation. That gives

> us

> > a

> > > > > > concentrated puree (of a consistency somewhat like thin tomato

> > > paste).

> > > > We

> > > > > do

> > > > > > this because the harvesting season is only 3 months long (July –

> > > > > September),

> > > > > > and we must purchase and prepare enough goji puree to last the

> rest

> > > of

> > > > > the

> > > > > > year (with accommodations for anticipated growth). Removing the

> > water

> > > > > makes

> > > > > > it easier to store the puree under refrigerated conditions in

> > > > aseptically

> > > > > > sterilized totes. From a microbiological standpoint, removing the

> > > water

> > > > > also

> > > > > > reduces water activity, meaning that the puree is far less likely

> > to

> > > > > harbor

> > > > > > bacteria and other microbes. Once we are ready for final

> > processing,

> > > > the

> > > > > > puree is air-freighted to our bottling plant in the U.S., where

> it

> > is

> > > > > > reconstituted (meaning that the exact amount of water that was

> > > removed

> > > > in

> > > > > > Gansu is now replenished) , and then it is blended with a small

> > > (<10%)

> > > > of

> > > > > > grape and pomegranate juice to ensure a uniform color (our

> berries

> > > are

> > > > > > picked for their polysaccharide content, not their color) and

> some

> > > > > natural

> > > > > > goji berry flavor (because once again, our berries have the

> highest

> > > LBP

> > > > > > content and not always the sweetest taste – the natural goji

> berry

> > > > flavor

> > > > > > ensures that every bottle will taste the same). Lastly, the

> product

> > > is

> > > > > > aseptically sterilized by a 4-second heat treatment (actually a

> > > shvitz

> > > > > with

> > > > > > live steam) that only coagulates microbial proteins and does not

> > harm

> > > > the

> > > > > > delicate LBP content. We proved this during our process design

> and

> > > > > > validation phase, and we test every batch to ensure that our

> > product

> > > is

> > > > > > pristine and fully potent.

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Q. Would it not be indicated to publish a research study

> comparing

> > > the

> > > > > > potency of fresh Gou Qi Zi juice as opposed to reconstituted

> juice

> > > > > (assuming

> > > > > > that Freelife Go Chi juice is indeed fresh!).

> > > > > >

> > > > > > A. This is a very interesting idea, and if we had an unlimited

> > > research

> > > > > > budget, I would love to do a study comparing our product with

> those

> > > of

> > > > > our

> > > > > > competitors, all of whom are using dried berries. Unfortunately,

> > > there

> > > > is

> > > > > a

> > > > > > limit to the size of Ray and Kevin's wallet, but I can tell you

> > this.

> > > > We

> > > > > > have analyzed every competing product that we have found on the

> > > market,

> > > > > > including Goji 100, Goji Gold, Goji Splash and the rest, and we

> > have

> > > > not

> > > > > > found one that has even one-third of our LBP content. And we

> truly

> > > > > believe,

> > > > > > as do most researchers, that the power of goji lies in these

> > amazing

> > > > > > glycopeptides known as Lycium barbarum polysaccharides (why

> Chinese

> > > > > > researchers named them polysaccharides is a mystery to me,

> > especially

> > > > > when

> > > > > > it's the amino acids on the glycopeptide surface – and their

> strong

> > > > > > resemblance to microbial antigens – that initiates and promotes

> > > immune

> > > > > > response). We also believe that there is significant LBP

> > degradation

> > > in

> > > > > > dried berries. Is

> > > > > > it enough to render them ineffective? No. The long history of use

> > of

> > > > gou

> > > > > qi

> > > > > > zi in TCM is testimony to its effectiveness, but we are seeing

> with

> > > our

> > > > > > product is quite remarkable. In China, people take gou qi zi over

> a

> > > > > lifetime

> > > > > > to achieve moderate improvement in disease resistance and health.

> > But

> > > > > we're

> > > > > > seeing dramatic short-term improvement, and perhaps that's the

> > > biggest

> > > > > > difference in using fresh berries – more polysaccharide power.

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Q. Would you be able to share with me the comparative analysis of

> > the

> > > > > > other Goji juice products?

> > > > > >

> > > > > > A. Sorry, but that information is highly confidential. Our

> > philosophy

> > > > is

> > > > > > that we would rather promote our product based on its clinically

> > > > > > demonstrated benefit rather than by slamming our competitors.

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Q. Can you explain in detail how the 90 day money back guarantee

> > > works.

> > > > I

> > > > > > understand that if not satisfied than when 90 days worth of

> bottles

> > > are

> > > > > > returned, the amount paid for them will be refunded in full,

> > correct?

> > > > > > Well, first of all, I understand that this is based upon drinking

> 4

> > > oz

> > > > > > per day, but how many bottles does that mean? Also, what if two

> or

> > > > three

> > > > > > family members have been drinking the Go Chi juice, and none of

> > them

> > > > are

> > > > > > satisfied, if all three return their bottles will they receive

> the

> > > same

> > > > > > refund?

> > > > > >

> > > > > > A. FreeLife's no risk guarantee is just that: If you are

> > dissatisfied

> > > > > > with our product for any reason, return it within 90 days and

> > receive

> > > a

> > > > > > 100% refund, even if the bottle is empty! If you join FreeLife

> and

> > > you

> > > > > > decide it is not for you even after 90 days, just let Freelife

> know

> > > > that

> > > > > you

> > > > > > wish to cancel. Freelife will " refund your money less a 10%

> > handling

> > > > fee

> > > > > for

> > > > > > all resalable product and sales aids you purchased within one

> year

> > of

> > > > > your

> > > > > > decision to cancel " .

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Q. What are the production costs that are involved, and why such

> an

> > > > > > enormous price per bottle. Please show me how what is charged is

> > not

> > > a

> > > > > > reflection of a price which is inflated to benefit those higher

> up

> > in

> > > > the

> > > > > > Multi-level marketing chain?

> > > > > >

> > > > > > A. The cost of our product is far higher than any other, as we

> are

> > > the

> > > > > > only company that is using fresh berries and not dried. The

> > logistics

> > > > of

> > > > > > transporting and quickly processing our berries in rural northern

> > > China

> > > > > are

> > > > > > daunting, and are very costly. Also, we would ask that you

> consider

> > > the

> > > > > > millions of dollars that we are spending on clinical research and

> > > > > charitable

> > > > > > works. When compared to products such as Goji 100, we are

> > > competitively

> > > > > > priced. We feel no reason to compete with the low-grade goji

> > products

> > > > > sold

> > > > > > at deep discount in Wal-Mart and other outlets. We truly believe

> > that

> > > > > GoChi

> > > > > > provides outstanding value for the money, even at the full retail

> > > > price.

> > > > > > However, many of our Marketing Executives receive rebates and

> > bonuses

> > > > > that

> > > > > > result in them paying little or nothing for their product. Our

> > > > > compensation

> > > > > > plan benefits everyone who chooses to pursue our business

> > > opportunity,

> > > > > and

> > > > > > it is by far the most generous pay plan in the industry.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Q. Would it not be prudent for Freelife to donate some of their

> > > profits

> > > > > > back to the Chinese Medical community, such as to the TCM medical

> > > > > schools,

> > > > > > community clinics, research facilities, etc. The Chinese medical

> > > > > community

> > > > > > is an incredible potential ally, for sales referrals, and medical

> > > > > > validation. Yet, thus far, the community views GoChi with much

> > > > scepticism

> > > > > > and distrust. As I think I have indicated to you, if I believe in

> a

> > > > > product

> > > > > > and receive satisfactory answers to my question, I will promote

> it.

> > I

> > > > can

> > > > > > assure you that the same is true industry wide, but good will

> needs

> > > to

> > > > be

> > > > > > cultivated. Comments?

> > > > > >

> > > > > > A. We have donate generously from our profits to our worldwide

> > > GojiKids

> > > > > > foundation, and a good amount of money has been spent in the

> areas

> > of

> > > > > > Ningxia Hui and Gansu provinces where our berries are grown and

> > > juiced.

> > > > > > Perhaps some day we will be able to expand our charitable efforts

> > > > beyond

> > > > > > children's relief efforts, but for now, this is where we are

> > > dedicating

> > > > > our

> > > > > > dollars and our time.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Q. It is customary for suppliers of medicinals, nutraceuticals,

> and

> > > > other

> > > > > > health products to offer licensed practitioners professional

> > > discounts.

> > > > > Why

> > > > > > is that not the policy of Freelife?

> > > > > >

> > > > > > A. The suppliers that you mention in the practitioner channel

> have

> > a

> > > > > > completely different sales and marketing structure, and our plan

> is

> > > > > simply

> > > > > > not optimized to favor one class of customers at the expense of

> > > others.

> > > > > As

> > > > > > stated previously, we do offer many opportunities for product

> > > rebates,

> > > > > > volume-driven bonuses and substantial income. I'm just not the

> > person

> > > > to

> > > > > > discuss them with you, as it's not my area of competence.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Q. I am concerned with the hyperbole that has accompanied some of

> > the

> > > > > sales

> > > > > > people I have come in contact with. Some of the claims and

> > > testimonials

> > > > > > border on health claims which contravene FDA regulations. Please

> > see

> > > > this

> > > > > > link to the letter from the FDA.

> > > > > > http://www.fda. gov/cder/ warn/cyber/ 2006/CL226e. pdf How do

> you

> > > > > reconcile

> > > > > > this?

> > > > > >

> > > > > > A. I agree completely, and it bothers me tremendously that some

> of

> > > our

> > > > > > people are trying to market our product as some kind of miracle

> > cure.

> > > > > This

> > > > > > letter was sent to a FreeLife distributor, not to FreeLife. We

> have

> > a

> > > > > strict

> > > > > > policy against making illegal medical claims for our product, and

> > we

> > > > > > terminate any distributor who fails to take down non-compliant

> > > websites

> > > > > or

> > > > > > who distributes non-compliant materials. This is why FreeLife has

> > > never

> > > > > > received a warning letter from FDA or a state Attorney-General.

> You

> > > > will

> > > > > not

> > > > > > find anything on a FreeLife website – past, present, or future –

> > that

> > > > > says

> > > > > > anything about using our products for the treatment or cure of

> any

> > > > > disease,

> > > > > > and we strongly recommend to our Marketing Executives that they

> > speak

> > > > > only

> > > > > > of the 19 clinically demonstrated benefits of GoChi and avoid

> > trying

> > > to

> > > > > > promote this product as some type of cure-all. We have no proof

> > that

> > > it

> > > > > is

> > > > > > effective against any disease or condition, and we have no

> > intention

> > > > > > of studying it in any of these areas. Why? Because, in the eyes

> of

> > > FDA,

> > > > > > that would re-classify our product as an unapproved new drug. It

> > > > > currently

> > > > > > costs about $600 million and 10 years to register a new drug in

> > this

> > > > > > country, and you can't sell drugs through Network Marketing, so

> can

> > > you

> > > > > see

> > > > > > why we would never go that route? We do believe, though that

> GoChi

> > is

> > > > the

> > > > > > best gou qi zi product on the planet, and we are certain that it

> > will

> > > > be

> > > > > a

> > > > > > valuable addition to the armamentarium of any TCM practitioner.

> > And,

> > > > > > although I wish that I could teach restraint to those who would

> > have

> > > > you

> > > > > > believe that GoChi can grow new limbs, I hope that you will

> forgive

> > > > them

> > > > > and

> > > > > > understand that their exuberance arises from having seen

> remarkable

> > > > > changes

> > > > > > in themselves and in those dear to them as a result of using the

> > > > > > product. But this is not how we promote our product. GoChi has

> been

> > > > > > clinically demonstrated against placebo in a published

> randomized,

> > > > > > double-blind study to

> > > > > > significantly improve sleep, energy, mental sharpness, feelings

> of

> > > > calm,

> > > > > > contentment, good health and happiness, to help relieve stress

> and

> > to

> > > > > > improve regularity. Blood tests have shown dramatic increases in

> > the

> > > > > body's

> > > > > > ability to defend itself against toxic free radicals and to

> improve

> > > > > immune

> > > > > > defenses. Isn't that enough? If people's medical conditions are

> > > > improving

> > > > > > while taking GoChi, it's because they are becoming more

> > > > immunocompetent.

> > > > > The

> > > > > > immune system is G-d's miracle, not the goji berry. GoChi is

> simply

> > > the

> > > > > > humble facilitator that restores balance to immunity. That is

> > > entirely

> > > > > > consistent with the use of gou qi zi in Traditional Chinese

> > Medicine.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > As many of you expressed, I too, harbor a natural scepticism

> > towards

> > > > > > products that make spectacular claims. But, in my opinion, the

> > tough

> > > > > > questions I asked were answered satisfactorily, and I will now

> > > > recommend

> > > > > > this product to those patients who are liver yin and blood, and

> > > Kidney

> > > > > yin

> > > > > > and jing vacuitous.

> > > > > > The product appears to have quality and the guarantee is

> > reasonable.

> > > If

> > > > > > any of you are interested in it feel free to write or call me.

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Sincerely,

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > www.traditionaljewi shmedicine. net

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

[Guest guest]

Yehuda,

 

Thanks for going out of your way in getting this info, but the more I learn

about the " Go-chi " juice,

the less I seriously want to buy it.

 

Why eliminate the naturally occurring enzymes and antioxidants? That

doesn't make any sense.

By sterilizing and denaturing the fruit.... what's left of the natural

medicinal?

The only reason I could see in eliminating enzymes is to be able to keep the

product on the shelf longer (dead energy)

 

So, this goes entirely against the basic premise of buying the GoChi product

because it supposedly comes from " fresh " fruits, which have been sterilized,

deproteined and lack crucial antioxidants.

What I am missing here?

 

1. They say that GoChi juice has no enzymes = proteins :

" this process would not be suitable if GoChi contained protein, as it would

also be coagulated, but GoChi contains no protein. "

 

2. and GoChi juice does not have crucial antioxidants:

" As for the antioxidants in goji, they are largely carotenoids (zeaxanthin,

lutein and lycopene) and they are not found in any considerable quantity in

the juice, as they reside mainly in the skins and seeds of the berry, which

we exclude from GoChi. "

 

Zeaxanthin and Lutein are the two caroteinoids inside the retina of the eye

(these are reasons why Gou qi zi benefits the eyes).

 

" Within the central macula <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macula>, zeaxanthin

is the dominant component, whereas in the peripheral retina,

lutein<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lutein>predominates...There is

epidemiological <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epidemiology> evidence of a

relationship between low plasma

<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blood_plasma>concentrations of lutein

and zeaxanthin on the one hand, and the risk of

developing age-related macular

degeneration<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Age-related_macular_degeneration>(AMD)

on the other. Some studies support the view that supplemental lutein

and/or zeaxanthin help protect against AMD. There is also epidemiological

evidence that increasing lutein and zeaxanthin intake lowers the risk of

cataract <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cataract> development.[*citation

needed <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Citation_needed>*] On

September 10, 2007, in a 6-year study,

researchers<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Researchers>,

led by John Paul SanGiovanni of the National Eye

Institute<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Eye_Institute>,

Maryland <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maryland> found that

Lutein<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lutein>and zeaxanthin (

nutrients <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nutrients> in

eggs<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Egg_%28food%29>,

spinach <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spinach> and other

green<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Green>

vegetables <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vegetables>) protect against

blindness <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blindness> (macular

degeneration<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macular_degeneration>),

affecting 1.2 million Americans <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States>,

mostly after age 65. Lutein and zeaxanthin reduce the risk of

AMD<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AMD>(

journal <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Journal> Archives of

Ophthalmology<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Archives_of_Ophthalmology>).

Foods considered good sources of the nutrients also include

kale<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kale>,

turnip <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turnip>

greens<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greens>,

collard <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collard> greens, romaine

lettuce<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romaine_lettuce>,

broccoli <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Broccoli>,

zucchini<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zucchini>,

corn <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corn>,

garden<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Garden>

peas <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peas> and Brussels

sprouts<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brussels_sprouts>

..[1] <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zeaxanthin#cite_note-PMID17846363-0>

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zeaxanthin

 

Lycopene: " Given its antioxidant properties, substantial scientific and

clinical research has been devoted to a possible correlation between

lycopene consumption and general health. Early research suggested some

amelioration of cardiovascular

disease<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cardiovascular_disease>,

cancer <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cancer>,

diabetes<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diabetes>,

osteoporosis <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Osteoporosis>, and even male

infertility

<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infertility>.[16] " <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ly\

copene#cite_note-15>

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lycopene

 

?

 

 

 

 

On Tue, Aug 26, 2008 at 1:40 PM, wrote:

 

> Kokko,

>

> Here's the answer to your questions on the processing:

>

> Could you elaborate on the proprietary aseptic sterilization?

>

> The unprocessed juice is transported through a narrow-diameter stainless

> steel tube that is in turn surrounded by a jacketing tube containing

> pressurized live steam. This rapidly heats the product to about 250ËšF for 4

> seconds, which is all that is required to coagulate microbial proteins. This

> process would not be suitable if GoChi contained protein, as it would also

> be coagulated, but GoChi contains no protein.

>

> The now-sterile juice continues through the stainless steel tube which is

> now surrounded by an outer jacket filled with refrigerant, quickly lowering

> the temperature of the juice to 38ËšF within 7 seconds. Although our active

> principles (Lycium barbarum polysaccharides) are heat labile, the 4-second

> duration does no significant harm, and we have proven this by extensive pre-

> and post-sterilization testing.

>

>

> Is the product irradiated? If this is proprietary information, will they

> keep that secret?

> How does their sterilization process target only microbes and bacteria and

> keep antioxidants and enzymes intact?

>

> No it is not irradiated. As far as enzymes are concerned, with rare

> exceptions (e.g., the sulfhydryl proteases in pineapple, papaya, fig), there

> are no enzymes worth conserving in most fruits. This is where we strongly

> disagree with the raw food movement, who believe erroneously that there are

> beneficial enzymes in raw foods. This belief, which arises from some

> philosophical works from the 1920s, has been thoroughly discredited by

> science. Ironically, raw foods contain enzymes that do not promote

> digestion, but which rather inhibit it, because that is their function in

> the plant. They are anti-nutrients, which exist to prevent the premature

> breakdown of starches and proteins until they are needed to nurture the

> germinated seedling. Once sprouted or germinated, beneficial enzymes are

> generated (such as the maltase in barley). But until the time of

> germination, the native anti-nutrient enzymes in most raw plant foods will,

> if taken into the body in

> sufficient quantity, block the absorption and utilization of ingested

> carbohydrates, proteins and fats. These anti-nutrients are found in largest

> quantity in legumes and in non-sprouted grains, which is why they should

> never be consumed in raw form.

>

> As for the antioxidants in goji, they are largely carotenoids (zeaxanthin,

> lutein and lycopene) and they are not found in any considerable quantity in

> the juice, as they reside mainly in the skins and seeds of the berry, which

> we exclude from GoChi. But we do not discard the skins and seeds, and in

> fact, we are about to launch a new product next month that will highlight

> these important carotenoids. The antioxidant power of GoChi is not to be

> found in the bottle. Rather, we have clinically demonstrated that the LBP in

> GoChi is able to significantly increase the body's production of the

> endogenous antioxidants superoxide dismutase and glutathione peroxidase, and

> we believe that this is far more valuable to human health than merely

> introducing fruit polyphenols which may or may not have systemic effect.

>

>

>

>

>

> --- On Mon, 8/25/08, <johnkokko<johnkokko%40gmail.com>>

> wrote:

>

> <johnkokko <johnkokko%40gmail.com>>

> Re: Follow up questions on Gou Qi Zi juice-GoChi : Enzyme

> loss with Pasteurization

> To:

Chinese Medicine <Chinese Medicine%40yaho\

ogroups.com>

> Monday, August 25, 2008, 12:47 PM

>

> Yehuda,

>

> Could you ask them to elaborate on their proprietary aseptic sterilization

> process?

> Is the product irradiated? If this is proprietary information, will they

> keep that secret?

> How does their sterilization process target only microbes and bacteria and

> keep antioxidants and enzymes intact?

>

> K.

>

> On Mon, Aug 25, 2008 at 10:46 AM, wrote:

>

> > Kokko,

> >

> > Here's what they say:

> >

> > Though their original formula Himalayan Goji Juice contained less than

> > one-tenth of 1% of sodium benzoate and potassium sorbate...

> > " GoChi is not perishable, because it contains absolutely no spoilage

> > organisms. In fact, it contains no microbes at all, thanks to our

> > proprietary aseptic sterilization process. Like any fresh food, it should

> be

> > refrigerated promptly after opening, should be kept tightly closed except

> > for when it is being poured, and should be consumed within 30 days of

> > opening. "

> >

> >

> >

> > www.traditionaljewi shmedicine. net

> >

> >

> > --- On Mon, 8/25/08, <johnkokko (AT) gmail (DOT) com<johnkokko%40gmail.

> com>>

> > wrote:

> >

> > <johnkokko (AT) gmail (DOT) com <johnkokko%40gmail. com>>

> > Re: Follow up questions on Gou Qi Zi juice-GoChi : Enzyme

> > loss with Pasteurization

> > <Traditional_

> Chinese_Medicine %40. com>

> > Monday, August 25, 2008, 10:19 AM

> >

> > Yehuda,

> >

> > That's good to know.

> > But, how do they keep the product from bacterial and mold build-up

> without

> > preservatives?

> > Or are there some preservatives, since it isn't heat pasteurized?

> > K.

> >

> > On Mon, Aug 25, 2008 at 9:49 AM, wrote:

> >

> > > Kokko,

> > >

> > > I goofed, and you're right. GoChi is NOT pasteurized or heat processed.

> I

> > > had assumed that it was, but when I check carefully one of their

> websites

> > I

> > > saw the following:

> > >

> > > " Our goji berries are not heat processed or pasteurized like others on

> > the

> > > market as this would destroy the delicate balance of glyconutrients,

> > which

> > > is what makes this product superior to any other copy cat on the

> market. "

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > www.traditionaljewi shmedicine. net

> > >

> > >

> > > --- On Mon, 8/25/08, <johnkokko (AT) gmail (DOT) com<johnkokko%

> 40gmail.

> > com>>

> > > wrote:

> > >

> > > <johnkokko (AT) gmail (DOT) com <johnkokko%40gmail. com>>

> > > Re: Follow up questions on Gou Qi Zi juice-GoChi :

> Enzyme

> > > loss with Pasteurization

> > > <Traditional_

> > Chinese_Medicine %40. com>

> > > Monday, August 25, 2008, 9:19 AM

> > >

> > >

> > > Yehuda,

> > >

> > > Thanks for bringing that up... Flash pasteurization is HEAT (70 degrees

> > > celsius) pasteurization,

> > > which denatures (deactivates) crucial enzymes which make the Gou qi zi

> > > traditionally effective.

> > > An example of a Gou qi zi enzyme are cerebrosides:

> > > which " was shown to protect liver cells from a toxic dry-cleaning

> > chemical

> > > better than the well-known liver protectant milk thistle "

> > > http://www.smart- publications. com/overall_ health/goji_ berry.php

> > >

> > > This is also a good reason to not decoct the berry (heat deactivation

> of

> > > enzymes), but just to chew it.

> > >

> > > This is a disadvantage of the juices that you get at the store or

> through

> > a

> > > MLM group.

> > > Better just to make a smoothie at home with the whole fruit (dried or

> > not).

> > >

> > > Usually when the herbs are dried by traditional methods via

> farmers/herb

> > > salers, they are dried at lower heats (below pasteurization levels) or

> in

> > > the sun (below 70 degrees celsius = 158 degrees fahrenheit)

> > > The regulatory flash pasteurization by the Go-Chi company neutralizes

> > their

> > > fresh picked puree process, in relation to enzymes,

> > > which are a crucial component to the Gou Qi zi's legendary powers.

> > > Furthermore, when the product sits on the shelf (unfrozen) for weeks to

> > > months, the antioxidant load also decreases.

> > >

> > > K.

> > >

> > > On Mon, Aug 25, 2008 at 1:02 AM, yehuda frischman

<wrote:

> > >

> > > > Hi Kokko,

> > > >

> > > > The point of the study was that drying significantly lowers the

> > > > berry anthocyanin content. Now you are contending that it is a

> stretch

> > to

> > > > apply the fresh standards to Go Chi, which is essentially pureed and

> > then

> > > > flash pasteurized. We will wait for the studies to be published, but

> my

> > > > point was that assuming that their process is able to sustain the

> > benefit

> > > of

> > > > the fresh fruit, then it would be significantly more beneficial than

> > > dried

> > > > Gou Qi Zi.

> > > >

> > > > We'll see!

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > www.traditionaljewi shmedicine. net

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > --- On Fri, 8/22/08, <johnkokko (AT) gmail (DOT) com<johnkokko%

> > 40gmail.

> > > com>>

> > > > wrote:

> > > >

> > > > <johnkokko (AT) gmail (DOT) com <johnkokko%40gmail. com>>

> > > > Re: Follow up questions on Gou Qi Zi juice-GoChi

> > > > <Traditional_

> > > Chinese_Medicine %40. com>

> > >

> > > > Friday, August 22, 2008, 5:03 PM

> > > >

> > > > Yehuda,

> > > >

> > > > Thanks for the pubmed study and am excited to see the forthcoming

> > > studies.

> > > > Of course, any company would only publish results which would support

> > the

> > > > sale of their own product,

> > > > so hopefully we can see the entire results, irrespective of the

> > outcome,

> > > in

> > > > the name of science.

> > > >

> > > > If we go by content as the basis of our evaluation of the Go-chi

> > > > product,

> > > > The " Change of Total Anthocyanins in Blueberries and Their

> Antioxidant

> > > > Effect After Drying and Freezing " study that you linked for us

> > > > had these results:

> > > >

> > > > * " Table 1*

> > > >

> > > > Anthocyanin content in evaluated samples.

> > > > Blueberry samplesTotal anthocyaninsmg/ g dry matter

> > > > ------------ --------- ---------

> > > > Fresh blueberries (FR0)7.2 ± 0.5a**Fresh blueberries 2-week5.7 ±

> > > > 0.5abstorage

> > > > at 5°C (FR2)Untreated dried (UN)4.3 ± 0.1bcPretreated dried (PT)3.7 ±

> > > > 0.2cStored

> > > > frozen for 1 month (FZ1M)8.1 ± 0.1aStored frozen for 3 months

> (FZ3M)7.9

> > ±

> > > > 1.3a "

> > > >

> > > > Which one of these would the Go-chi product fall under? Once the

> > product

> > > is

> > > > put on the shelf even after initial freezing, the anthocyanin level

> > falls

> > > > to

> > > > levels of those of " Untreated Dried " .

> > > > 5.7 +/- .5 (if stored at 5 degrees celsius, which I don't believe the

> > > > Go-chi product is consistently stored at, because of transportation,

> > > > distribution to customers via vendors via outlets and storage) vs.

> 4.3

> > > +/-

> > > > .1 (if untreated and dried)

> > > > This anthocyanin content difference is not significant.

> > > > When the product becomes unfrozen and goes on the shelf for weeks to

> > > > months,

> > > > the anythocyanin level will drop to levels below that of 5.7 +/- .5

> > > > (according to the decreasing trend).

> > > >

> > > > This study was also ex vivo. But from the results, we can see that a

> > > > product which is not kept consistently frozen, does not have any

> > > > significant

> > > > increase in anthocyanins than a product which is untreated and dried

> > (ie.

> > > > organic dried gou qi zi).

> > > >

> > > > So, for now, I'll stick to the dried gou qi zi.

> > > > If you can find some fresh-frozen gou qi zi berries, that's another

> > > story.

> > > >

> > > > Respectfully,

> > > > K.

> > > >

> > > > On Thu, Aug 21, 2008 at 10:47 AM, yehuda frischman

<wrote:

> > > >

> > > > > Dear Kokko,

> > > > >

> > > > > Studies do show that drying decreases anthocyanin content in fruit.

> > > > > See:(http://www.pubmedce ntral.nih. gov/articlerende r.fcgi?artid=

> > > > 1082901

> > > >

> > > > > And again the problem I have with ORAC scoring is that it just

> > measures

> > > > in

> > > > > vitro, not in vivo. The amount of grape and pomegranate juice added

> > to

> > > Go

> > > > > Chi IMO is statistically insignificant (3%) and is added to enhance

> > > > flavor.

> > > > > Of course, this could present a problem to someone hypersensitive

> > > > > to pomegranates and/or grapes (I have two such patients!)

> > > > >

> > > > > Your concerns, I think, are one of the reasons that Freelife has

> > > > conducted

> > > > > other clinical studies, and I await the published results of the

> two

> > > > > additional studies submitted to peer-review journals which should

> be

> > > out

> > > > > before the end of the year which I referred to earlier: The immune

> > > study

> > > > > testing and comparing the significant difference of three markers

> in

> > > vivo

> > > > :

> > > > > lymphocytes, IL-2 and IgG, and the antioxidant study testing and

> > > > comparing,

> > > > > again, in vivo levels of SOD, GSH-Px and MDA.

> > > > >

> > > > > Concerning the cost, they claim that the costs involved in their

> > > > production

> > > > > are " higher than any other, as we are the only company that is

> using

> > > > fresh

> > > > > berries and not dried. The logistics of transporting and quickly

> > > > processing

> > > > > our berries in rural northern China are daunting.... " That doesn't

> > > seem

> > > > > unreasonable to me, assuming that what they are claiming is true.

> It

> > is

> > > > > also telling, I think, that they are investing a significant amount

> > of

> > > > > their budget to research and development in order to support their

> > > claims

> > > > > scientifically. I think that this also is unique for companies

> > hawking

> > > a

> > > > > product.

> > > > >

> > > > > Again, the two additional studies have been presented and will be

> > > > published

> > > > > shortly, apparently. They say that other studies are forthcoming.

> > > > >

> > > > > As always, I appreciate your insightful questions and desire to

> > > reinforce

> > > > > scientific validation of our wonderful medicine.

> > > > >

> > > > > All the best,

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Yehuda

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Yehuda,

> > > > > Thanks for relaying this info to the group.

> > > > > I'm not convinced that the fresh puree that has been reconstituted,

> > > > > bottled,

> > > > > shipped and sitting on a non-refrigerated shelf is going to have

> more

> > > > > nutritional value than the dried fruit that can be eaten whole or

> > > > decocted

> > > > > immediately be a patient or practitioner.

> > > > > There was a clinical study done to compare the " Antioxidant

> capacity

> > > and

> > > > > phenolic content of grapes, sun-dried raisins, and golden raisins

> and

> > > > their

> > > > > effect on ex vivo serum antioxidant capacity. "

> > > > >

> > > > > " The objectives of this study were to compare the antioxidant

> > capacity

> > > > and

> > > > > phenolic content of green Thompson seedless grapes (the most common

> > > > variety

> > > > > of grapes consumed in the United States), sun-dried raisins, and

> > golden

> > > > > raisins (both produced from Thompson seedless grapes) and to

> observe

> > > the

> > > > > effects of their consumption over 4 weeks in 15 healthy human males

> > > with

> > > > a

> > > > > cross-over design. The oxygen radical absorbance capacity (ORAC)

> > > > (positive

> > > > > statistical significance for grapes after 2 weeks and golden

> raisins

> > > > after

> > > > > 3

> > > > > weeks), serum oxidation (positive statistical significance for

> golden

> > > > > raisin

> > > > > lag time after 4 weeks), total phenolics (no significant effects),

> > and

> > > > > C-reactive protein (no significant effects) were monitored. "

> > > > >

> > > > > *The conclusions from the study were that, " Golden raisins had the

> > > > highest

> > > > > antioxidant capacity and phenolic content. " *

> > > > > http://cat.inist. fr/?aModele= afficheN & cpsidt=19186324

> > > > >

> > > > > So, more clinical research needs to be done to be convincing that

> the

> > > > > Go-chi

> > > > > juice is more beneficial than the traditional dried berries,

> > especially

> > > > for

> > > > > the price differential.

> > > > > If raisins have similar or even higher antioxidant profiles than

> the

> > > > fresh

> > > > > grapes from which they were derived, why pay 10 times more for the

> > same

> > > > > stuff in a bottle? (Since these fresh gou qi zi vs dried gou qi zi

> > > > studies

> > > > > have not been published, how can we truly know other than make

> > > > > speculations,

> > > > > as the Go-chi juice sales representative has done)

> > > > >

> > > > > Also, since grape and pomegranate juice are added to the puree for

> > the

> > > > > Go-chi juice,

> > > > > doesn't that skew the results for the studies, since it has been

> long

> > > > > verified that grape and pomegranate juices are among the highest

> ORAC

> > > > > scored

> > > > > foods? That doesn't give credence to " Go-chi " juice, but the power

> of

> > > > > grape and pomegranate juices mixed with Gou qi zi (which has

> already

> > > been

> > > > > validated by traditional use).

> > > > >

> > > > > What if I chewed dried gou qi zi mixing it with my salivary

> enzymes,

> > > > > instead

> > > > > of having a processing blade slice it and then have it take weeks

> to

> > > > months

> > > > > to get to my mouth?

> > > > >

> > > > > Without this evidence, it would be difficult for me to sell the

> > > " Go-chi "

> > > > > product instead of giving my patients a pound of Organic dried Gou

> qi

> > > zi.

> > > > >

> > > > > Respectfully,

> > > > > K.

> > > > >

> > > > > On Thu, Aug 21, 2008 at 4:34 AM, yehuda frischman

<wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Dear colleagues,

> > > > > >

> > > > > > About two weeks ago, I wrote to you asking for your feedback

> > > concerning

> > > > > > Gou Qi Zi juice sold as GoChi by Freelife. I had a number of

> > > questions

> > > > > and

> > > > > > doubts about the product, and as I expressed, the concept of

> > > > multi-level

> > > > > > marketing I find abhorrent. I took your questions as well as my

> > own,

> > > > and

> > > > > > presented them to the Freelife's chief products officer. Below

> are

> > my

> > > > > > questions and the answers I received:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Q.It would be wise to have research done not by an employee of

> > > > Freelife.

> > > > > > It gives the impression of being jaded.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > A. Like all peer-reviewed journals, the Journal of Alternative

> and

> > > > > > Complementary Medicine blinds their expert judges, so they had no

> > > idea

> > > > > that

> > > > > > the study was performed by the eminent Dr. Amagase and Dr. Nance.

> > > > > Regardless

> > > > > > of who designs or conducts a study, the fairness and honesty are

> > > > > guaranteed

> > > > > > by randomizing, double-blinding and placebo control. In our

> second

> > > and

> > > > > third

> > > > > > studies, Dr. Amagase was a corresponding author and did not

> conduct

> > > the

> > > > > > study. We have other unreleased studies that have been conducted

> > > around

> > > > > the

> > > > > > world by members of our independent Scientific Advisory Board.

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Q. To be really considered seriously by the scientific community,

> > > > studies

> > > > > > should certainly be for longer than two weeks and they should be

> > > > > conducted

> > > > > > by objective third parties who do not have a vested interest in

> > their

> > > > > > validation.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > A. We respectfully disagree. For years, our customers had been

> > > telling

> > > > us

> > > > > > that they were getting remarkable results from our product within

> > two

> > > > > weeks

> > > > > > or less. Frankly, we didn't believe them because there was

> nothing

> > in

> > > > the

> > > > > > history of Traditional to support this. But,

> then

> > > > again,

> > > > > > goji's history in TCM has been in the form of dried berries, and

> > our

> > > > > product

> > > > > > is the first ever to be made from fresh berries, and therefore

> > > delivers

> > > > > far

> > > > > > more of the goji berry's bioactive polysaccharides. And so, we

> > > decided

> > > > to

> > > > > > see if our customers were really experiencing these reported

> > benefits

> > > > or

> > > > > if

> > > > > > they were simply experiencing a placebo effect. We designed and

> > > > conducted

> > > > > a

> > > > > > 14 day randomized, double-blind, placebo controlled study and

> found

> > > > that

> > > > > our

> > > > > > customers were not crazy after all. The peer review judges at the

> > > > medical

> > > > > > journal that accepted and published our study had no problem with

> > its

> > > > 14

> > > > > day

> > > > > > duration, or that it was conducted on FreeLife

> > > > > > employees. Our second and third studies were conducted for 30

> days

> > > > each,

> > > > > > and on larger populations who had no knowledge of FreeLife or our

> > > > > products.

> > > > > > Other ongoing and planned studies are at 60 and 90 day duration.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Q. These studies are very important to me and I would like to

> know

> > > when

> > > > > > they will be published and authenticated.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > A. They are undergoing the peer review process at two separate

> > > > journals,

> > > > > > which can take several month. We can't disclose the names of the

> > > > journals

> > > > > > because they have prohibited us from doing so, but we hope that

> > both

> > > > > studies

> > > > > > will be accepted and published by the end of 2008.

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Q. It would be helpful to conduct studies comparing the efficacy

> of

> > > > juice

> > > > > > from fresh Gou Qi ZI berries as opposed to reconstituted juice

> from

> > > > dried

> > > > > > berries.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > A. There's nothing wrong with using the dried gou qi zi, as has

> > been

> > > > done

> > > > > > in China for thousands of years. But, as with any other fruit, we

> > > > believe

> > > > > > that fresh is better than dried. I always use the example of

> grapes

> > > vs.

> > > > > > raisins. When we know that the reason that red grapes are healthy

> > > > because

> > > > > of

> > > > > > the red pigment anthocyanin, how could one expect to get the same

> > > > benefit

> > > > > > from raisins or from raisin juice?

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Q. Can you tell me precisely where the Gou Qi Zi berry that

> > Freelife

> > > > uses

> > > > > > comes from?

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > A. From the Yellow River floodplains of Ningxia Hui province in

> > north

> > > > > > central China. There are also some great berries grown in

> Xinjiang

> > > > Uygur

> > > > > > province in the west, but our problem with using them is that we

> > > > wouldn't

> > > > > be

> > > > > > able to get the fresh berries transported to our juicing plant in

> > > Gansu

> > > > > > province quickly enough to prevent spoilage.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Q. Why is the product called Himalayan Goji when it comes from

> > > Ningxia

> > > > > Hui

> > > > > > province in north central China, and Xinjiang Uygur in the

> > Northwest.

> > > > > These

> > > > > > are nowhere near the Himalayas?

> > > > > >

> > > > > > A. The Himalayan people were the originators of a comprehensive

> > > > > > wellness-based system of medicine, which predates TCM. They

> taught

> > > > their

> > > > > > system to the visiting Chinese silk traders and scholars, who

> > > > ultimately

> > > > > > refined it. Several Lycium species were used by the Himalayans,

> and

> > > > > > according to legend, the Chinese visitors took samples home with

> > them

> > > > and

> > > > > > planted them in their own valleys in northern and northwestern

> > China.

> > > > The

> > > > > > name " Himalayan Goji Juice " was meant only to honor the

> discoverers

> > > of

> > > > > the

> > > > > > berry, but it was precisely because of confusion that we named

> our

> > > new

> > > > > > product " GoChi " .

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Q. I am confused about an apparent contradiction. From what you

> > > > > > represented to me, and from what the brochure " The pursuit of

> > > > perfection "

> > > > > > states, the berries used are freshly picked, cold pressed and

> > packed

> > > in

> > > > > > aseptic containers before they are shipped overseas (not

> > > reconstituted!

> > > > )

> > > > > > Yet, in the first study by Amagase and Nance it states on page

> 404

> > > > under

> > > > > > Materials and Methods: " ...This test material is a liquid dietary

> > > > > supplement

> > > > > > containing reconstituted juice from fresh whole L. Barbarum fruit

> > > with

> > > > > 10%

> > > > > > excipients by volume. " So which is it?

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > A.The berries are freshly picked in Ningxia Hui, and are then

> > shipped

> > > > to

> > > > > > our modern processing facility in nearby Gansu province. There,

> > they

> > > > are

> > > > > > cold-pressed, after which about 50% of the water is removed by

> cold

> > > (36

> > > > –

> > > > > > 38ËšF), vacuum-assisted rotary thin-film evaporation. That gives

> us

> > a

> > > > > > concentrated puree (of a consistency somewhat like thin tomato

> > > paste).

> > > > We

> > > > > do

> > > > > > this because the harvesting season is only 3 months long (July –

> > > > > September),

> > > > > > and we must purchase and prepare enough goji puree to last the

> rest

> > > of

> > > > > the

> > > > > > year (with accommodations for anticipated growth). Removing the

> > water

> > > > > makes

> > > > > > it easier to store the puree under refrigerated conditions in

> > > > aseptically

> > > > > > sterilized totes. From a microbiological standpoint, removing the

> > > water

> > > > > also

> > > > > > reduces water activity, meaning that the puree is far less likely

> > to

> > > > > harbor

> > > > > > bacteria and other microbes. Once we are ready for final

> > processing,

> > > > the

> > > > > > puree is air-freighted to our bottling plant in the U.S., where

> it

> > is

> > > > > > reconstituted (meaning that the exact amount of water that was

> > > removed

> > > > in

> > > > > > Gansu is now replenished) , and then it is blended with a small

> > > (<10%)

> > > > of

> > > > > > grape and pomegranate juice to ensure a uniform color (our

> berries

> > > are

> > > > > > picked for their polysaccharide content, not their color) and

> some

> > > > > natural

> > > > > > goji berry flavor (because once again, our berries have the

> highest

> > > LBP

> > > > > > content and not always the sweetest taste – the natural goji

> berry

> > > > flavor

> > > > > > ensures that every bottle will taste the same). Lastly, the

> product

> > > is

> > > > > > aseptically sterilized by a 4-second heat treatment (actually a

> > > shvitz

> > > > > with

> > > > > > live steam) that only coagulates microbial proteins and does not

> > harm

> > > > the

> > > > > > delicate LBP content. We proved this during our process design

> and

> > > > > > validation phase, and we test every batch to ensure that our

> > product

> > > is

> > > > > > pristine and fully potent.

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Q. Would it not be indicated to publish a research study

> comparing

> > > the

> > > > > > potency of fresh Gou Qi Zi juice as opposed to reconstituted

> juice

> > > > > (assuming

> > > > > > that Freelife Go Chi juice is indeed fresh!).

> > > > > >

> > > > > > A. This is a very interesting idea, and if we had an unlimited

> > > research

> > > > > > budget, I would love to do a study comparing our product with

> those

> > > of

> > > > > our

> > > > > > competitors, all of whom are using dried berries. Unfortunately,

> > > there

> > > > is

> > > > > a

> > > > > > limit to the size of Ray and Kevin's wallet, but I can tell you

> > this.

> > > > We

> > > > > > have analyzed every competing product that we have found on the

> > > market,

> > > > > > including Goji 100, Goji Gold, Goji Splash and the rest, and we

> > have

> > > > not

> > > > > > found one that has even one-third of our LBP content. And we

> truly

> > > > > believe,

> > > > > > as do most researchers, that the power of goji lies in these

> > amazing

> > > > > > glycopeptides known as Lycium barbarum polysaccharides (why

> Chinese

> > > > > > researchers named them polysaccharides is a mystery to me,

> > especially

> > > > > when

> > > > > > it's the amino acids on the glycopeptide surface – and their

> strong

> > > > > > resemblance to microbial antigens – that initiates and promotes

> > > immune

> > > > > > response). We also believe that there is significant LBP

> > degradation

> > > in

> > > > > > dried berries. Is

> > > > > > it enough to render them ineffective? No. The long history of use

> > of

> > > > gou

> > > > > qi

> > > > > > zi in TCM is testimony to its effectiveness, but we are seeing

> with

> > > our

> > > > > > product is quite remarkable. In China, people take gou qi zi over

> a

> > > > > lifetime

> > > > > > to achieve moderate improvement in disease resistance and health.

> > But

> > > > > we're

> > > > > > seeing dramatic short-term improvement, and perhaps that's the

> > > biggest

> > > > > > difference in using fresh berries – more polysaccharide power.

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Q. Would you be able to share with me the comparative analysis of

> > the

> > > > > > other Goji juice products?

> > > > > >

> > > > > > A. Sorry, but that information is highly confidential. Our

> > philosophy

> > > > is

> > > > > > that we would rather promote our product based on its clinically

> > > > > > demonstrated benefit rather than by slamming our competitors.

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Q. Can you explain in detail how the 90 day money back guarantee

> > > works.

> > > > I

> > > > > > understand that if not satisfied than when 90 days worth of

> bottles

> > > are

> > > > > > returned, the amount paid for them will be refunded in full,

> > correct?

> > > > > > Well, first of all, I understand that this is based upon drinking

> 4

> > > oz

> > > > > > per day, but how many bottles does that mean? Also, what if two

> or

> > > > three

> > > > > > family members have been drinking the Go Chi juice, and none of

> > them

> > > > are

> > > > > > satisfied, if all three return their bottles will they receive

> the

> > > same

> > > > > > refund?

> > > > > >

> > > > > > A. FreeLife's no risk guarantee is just that: If you are

> > dissatisfied

> > > > > > with our product for any reason, return it within 90 days and

> > receive

> > > a

> > > > > > 100% refund, even if the bottle is empty! If you join FreeLife

> and

> > > you

> > > > > > decide it is not for you even after 90 days, just let Freelife

> know

> > > > that

> > > > > you

> > > > > > wish to cancel. Freelife will " refund your money less a 10%

> > handling

> > > > fee

> > > > > for

> > > > > > all resalable product and sales aids you purchased within one

> year

> > of

> > > > > your

> > > > > > decision to cancel " .

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Q. What are the production costs that are involved, and why such

> an

> > > > > > enormous price per bottle. Please show me how what is charged is

> > not

> > > a

> > > > > > reflection of a price which is inflated to benefit those higher

> up

> > in

> > > > the

> > > > > > Multi-level marketing chain?

> > > > > >

> > > > > > A. The cost of our product is far higher than any other, as we

> are

> > > the

> > > > > > only company that is using fresh berries and not dried. The

> > logistics

> > > > of

> > > > > > transporting and quickly processing our berries in rural northern

> > > China

> > > > > are

> > > > > > daunting, and are very costly. Also, we would ask that you

> consider

> > > the

> > > > > > millions of dollars that we are spending on clinical research and

> > > > > charitable

> > > > > > works. When compared to products such as Goji 100, we are

> > > competitively

> > > > > > priced. We feel no reason to compete with the low-grade goji

> > products

> > > > > sold

> > > > > > at deep discount in Wal-Mart and other outlets. We truly believe

> > that

> > > > > GoChi

> > > > > > provides outstanding value for the money, even at the full retail

> > > > price.

> > > > > > However, many of our Marketing Executives receive rebates and

> > bonuses

> > > > > that

> > > > > > result in them paying little or nothing for their product. Our

> > > > > compensation

> > > > > > plan benefits everyone who chooses to pursue our business

> > > opportunity,

> > > > > and

> > > > > > it is by far the most generous pay plan in the industry.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Q. Would it not be prudent for Freelife to donate some of their

> > > profits

> > > > > > back to the Chinese Medical community, such as to the TCM medical

> > > > > schools,

> > > > > > community clinics, research facilities, etc. The Chinese medical

> > > > > community

> > > > > > is an incredible potential ally, for sales referrals, and medical

> > > > > > validation. Yet, thus far, the community views GoChi with much

> > > > scepticism

> > > > > > and distrust. As I think I have indicated to you, if I believe in

> a

> > > > > product

> > > > > > and receive satisfactory answers to my question, I will promote

> it.

> > I

> > > > can

> > > > > > assure you that the same is true industry wide, but good will

> needs

> > > to

> > > > be

> > > > > > cultivated. Comments?

> > > > > >

> > > > > > A. We have donate generously from our profits to our worldwide

> > > GojiKids

> > > > > > foundation, and a good amount of money has been spent in the

> areas

> > of

> > > > > > Ningxia Hui and Gansu provinces where our berries are grown and

> > > juiced.

> > > > > > Perhaps some day we will be able to expand our charitable efforts

> > > > beyond

> > > > > > children's relief efforts, but for now, this is where we are

> > > dedicating

> > > > > our

> > > > > > dollars and our time.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Q. It is customary for suppliers of medicinals, nutraceuticals,

> and

> > > > other

> > > > > > health products to offer licensed practitioners professional

> > > discounts.

> > > > > Why

> > > > > > is that not the policy of Freelife?

> > > > > >

> > > > > > A. The suppliers that you mention in the practitioner channel

> have

> > a

> > > > > > completely different sales and marketing structure, and our plan

> is

> > > > > simply

> > > > > > not optimized to favor one class of customers at the expense of

> > > others.

> > > > > As

> > > > > > stated previously, we do offer many opportunities for product

> > > rebates,

> > > > > > volume-driven bonuses and substantial income. I'm just not the

> > person

> > > > to

> > > > > > discuss them with you, as it's not my area of competence.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Q. I am concerned with the hyperbole that has accompanied some of

> > the

> > > > > sales

> > > > > > people I have come in contact with. Some of the claims and

> > > testimonials

> > > > > > border on health claims which contravene FDA regulations. Please

> > see

> > > > this

> > > > > > link to the letter from the FDA.

> > > > > > http://www.fda. gov/cder/ warn/cyber/ 2006/CL226e. pdf How do

> you

> > > > > reconcile

> > > > > > this?

> > > > > >

> > > > > > A. I agree completely, and it bothers me tremendously that some

> of

> > > our

> > > > > > people are trying to market our product as some kind of miracle

> > cure.

> > > > > This

> > > > > > letter was sent to a FreeLife distributor, not to FreeLife. We

> have

> > a

> > > > > strict

> > > > > > policy against making illegal medical claims for our product, and

> > we

> > > > > > terminate any distributor who fails to take down non-compliant

> > > websites

> > > > > or

> > > > > > who distributes non-compliant materials. This is why FreeLife has

> > > never

> > > > > > received a warning letter from FDA or a state Attorney-General.

> You

> > > > will

> > > > > not

> > > > > > find anything on a FreeLife website – past, present, or future –

> > that

> > > > > says

> > > > > > anything about using our products for the treatment or cure of

> any

> > > > > disease,

> > > > > > and we strongly recommend to our Marketing Executives that they

> > speak

> > > > > only

> > > > > > of the 19 clinically demonstrated benefits of GoChi and avoid

> > trying

> > > to

> > > > > > promote this product as some type of cure-all. We have no proof

> > that

> > > it

> > > > > is

> > > > > > effective against any disease or condition, and we have no

> > intention

> > > > > > of studying it in any of these areas. Why? Because, in the eyes

> of

> > > FDA,

> > > > > > that would re-classify our product as an unapproved new drug. It

> > > > > currently

> > > > > > costs about $600 million and 10 years to register a new drug in

> > this

> > > > > > country, and you can't sell drugs through Network Marketing, so

> can

> > > you

> > > > > see

> > > > > > why we would never go that route? We do believe, though that

> GoChi

> > is

> > > > the

> > > > > > best gou qi zi product on the planet, and we are certain that it

> > will

> > > > be

> > > > > a

> > > > > > valuable addition to the armamentarium of any TCM practitioner.

> > And,

> > > > > > although I wish that I could teach restraint to those who would

> > have

> > > > you

> > > > > > believe that GoChi can grow new limbs, I hope that you will

> forgive

> > > > them

> > > > > and

> > > > > > understand that their exuberance arises from having seen

> remarkable

> > > > > changes

> > > > > > in themselves and in those dear to them as a result of using the

> > > > > > product. But this is not how we promote our product. GoChi has

> been

> > > > > > clinically demonstrated against placebo in a published

> randomized,

> > > > > > double-blind study to

> > > > > > significantly improve sleep, energy, mental sharpness, feelings

> of

> > > > calm,

> > > > > > contentment, good health and happiness, to help relieve stress

> and

> > to

> > > > > > improve regularity. Blood tests have shown dramatic increases in

> > the

> > > > > body's

> > > > > > ability to defend itself against toxic free radicals and to

> improve

> > > > > immune

> > > > > > defenses. Isn't that enough? If people's medical conditions are

> > > > improving

> > > > > > while taking GoChi, it's because they are becoming more

> > > > immunocompetent.

> > > > > The

> > > > > > immune system is G-d's miracle, not the goji berry. GoChi is

> simply

> > > the

> > > > > > humble facilitator that restores balance to immunity. That is

> > > entirely

> > > > > > consistent with the use of gou qi zi in Traditional Chinese

> > Medicine.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > As many of you expressed, I too, harbor a natural scepticism

> > towards

> > > > > > products that make spectacular claims. But, in my opinion, the

> > tough

> > > > > > questions I asked were answered satisfactorily, and I will now

> > > > recommend

> > > > > > this product to those patients who are liver yin and blood, and

> > > Kidney

> > > > > yin

> > > > > > and jing vacuitous.

> > > > > > The product appears to have quality and the guarantee is

> > reasonable.

> > > If

> > > > > > any of you are interested in it feel free to write or call me.

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Sincerely,

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > www.traditionaljewi shmedicine. net

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

[Guest guest]

Yehuda,

 

The benefit or lack of; concerning enzymes is speculative, since there are

so many ideas from both sides.

Another point of speculation is exactly why traditionally in Chinese

medicine most foods, *except fruits (ie gou qi zi)*

are cooked. Most likely it was 1. to kill parasites, 2. to kill bacteria

3. to make " cold " food warmer (but warm foods also have enzyme content; you

can't equate enzyme content with cold energetics) 4. to make food easier to

macerate in the mouth and easier to digest in our systems (breaking down

fiber content; I think that fiber content ie raw salads is more equivalent

to the cold, damp, hard to digest idea).

 

On the flip side to that, (enzymes help digestion; they don't make food

harder to digest).

There is a whole category of food grade herbs that we use in TCM as enzymes.

It's the " Relieve food stagnation " herbs.

Chinese medicine uses these food grade herbs.... Shan zha (contains lipase

= digestion of fats),

Shen qu (contains amylase, pancreatin, protease), Mai ya and Gu ya (contain

amylase = digestion of carbs)

Gou qi zi has another enzyme called cerebroside, which supports the

protection of liver cells.

So, the fact that the Go-chi product lacks enzymes, how is that a good

thing?

 

For the second point, GoChi juice eliminates the seeds and skins, which

contain the carotenoids zeaxanthin, lutein and lycopene.

According to research from other Gou qi zi juice companies... these are the

antioxidants that we want from Gou qi zi.

The Go-Chi company knows that; that's why they are creating another product

(not in the juice) that will have these crucial antioxidants to sell. But,

it takes away from the value of the juice. You'll have to buy both of their

products to get the value of the whole berry.

 

I'm interested in this thoroughly, because years ago, I thought about making

a Gou qi zi juice, like every company today is doing. There is literally a

new Gou qi zi juice on the health food/ cafe shelves every month. I talked

to several of the first companies that came out with their products and I

did the research and found out that you can't do better than doing it the

traditional way.

Of course, the traditional way was organic, untampered and wasn't shipped

across the world either.

So, I really think that selling the juice in a bottle, lacking essential

elements of the herb and sitting on the shelves for weeks to months is not

in any way better than the whole dried fruit (especially price per pound and

value for the patient).

 

I don't think it's wrong to profit from herbal products, we just got to make

a better product. That's all.

 

Respectfully,

K.

[Guest guest]

Yehuda,

 

The benefit or lack of; concerning enzymes is speculative, since there are

so many ideas from both sides.

Another point of speculation is exactly why traditionally in Chinese

medicine most foods, *except fruits (ie gou qi zi)*

are cooked. Most likely it was 1. to kill parasites, 2. to kill bacteria

3. to make " cold " food warmer (but warm foods also have enzyme content; you

can't equate enzyme content with cold energetics) 4. to make food easier to

macerate in the mouth and easier to digest in our systems (breaking down

fiber content; I think that fiber content ie raw salads is more equivalent

to the cold, damp, hard to digest idea).

 

On the flip side to that, (enzymes help digestion; they don't make food

harder to digest).

There is a whole category of food grade herbs that we use in TCM as enzymes.

It's the " Relieve food stagnation " herbs.

Chinese medicine uses these food grade herbs.... Shan zha (contains lipase

= digestion of fats),

Shen qu (contains amylase, pancreatin, protease), Mai ya and Gu ya (contain

amylase = digestion of carbs)

Gou qi zi has another enzyme called cerebroside, which supports the

protection of liver cells.

So, the fact that the Go-chi product lacks enzymes, how is that a good

thing?

 

For the second point, GoChi juice eliminates the seeds and skins, which

contain the carotenoids zeaxanthin, lutein and lycopene.

According to research from other Gou qi zi juice companies... these are the

antioxidants that we want from Gou qi zi.

The Go-Chi company knows that; that's why they are creating another product

(not in the juice) that will have these crucial antioxidants to sell. But,

it takes away from the value of the juice. You'll have to buy both of their

products to get the value of the whole berry.

 

I'm interested in this thoroughly, because years ago, I thought about making

a Gou qi zi juice, like every company today is doing. There is literally a

new Gou qi zi juice on the health food/ cafe shelves every month. I talked

to several of the first companies that came out with their products and I

did the research and found out that you can't do better than doing it the

traditional way.

Of course, the traditional way was organic, untampered and wasn't shipped

across the world either.

So, I really think that selling the juice in a bottle, lacking essential

elements of the herb and sitting on the shelves for weeks to months is not

in any way better than the whole dried fruit (especially price per pound and

value for the patient).

 

I don't think it's wrong to profit from herbal products, we just got to make

a better product. That's all.

 

Respectfully,

K.

 

 

 

 

On Wed, Aug 27, 2008 at 1:57 AM, wrote:

 

> Hi Kokko,

>

> a couple of points of disagreement.

> 1. From what I have read, primarily with the exception of tropical fruits,

> which break down protein and particularly bacteria which are prevalent in

> the tropical environment, almost all plant enzymes are not beneficial for

> humans. Consider the fact that raw vegetables are cold, damp hard to

> digest and damage the spleen. Why is it that Chinese medical dietetics

> encourages cooking?

>

> 2. You make it sound as if any product that isn't raw lacks any

> nutritional value and essentially is a dead food. I am not a nutritionist,

> nor a biochemist, and have very little background in biochemistry, but as a

> practitioner of Chinese medicine, I constantly observe patients who have gas

> a bloating and are raw food enthusiast. This obviously means that they are

> not being absorbed. Is that healthy? The processing of GoChi, as we read,

> very quickly is heated up to a relatively low temperature to kill any

> bacteria which could denature or cause spoilage, and then rapidly cooled off

> to. The effect allows the product to be preservative free. I thank that

> that's not a bad thing at all. Obviously, it's not a dead food at all,

> because otherwise why would it need refrigeration upon opening? Meanwhile

> there are no preservatives at all.

>

> Listen, the proof will be in the pudding. Everything is conjecture until

> the 2 studies are published. Meanwhile they have taken great steps to make

> sure tbat the product is prepared in the most bioavailable and effective

> way. And if anyone isn't satisfied, there is a 90 money back guarantee,

> no questions asked.

>

> Yehuda

>

>

>

>

>

> --- On Tue, 8/26/08, <johnkokko<johnkokko%40gmail.com>>

> wrote:

>

> <johnkokko <johnkokko%40gmail.com>>

> Re: Follow up questions on Gou Qi Zi juice-GoChi :

> Enzyme loss with Pasteurization

> To:

Chinese Medicine <Chinese Medicine%40yaho\

ogroups.com>,

> <%40>

> Tuesday, August 26, 2008, 8:40 PM

>

> Yehuda,

>

> Thanks for going out of your way in getting this info, but the more I learn

> about the " Go-chi " juice,

> the less I seriously want to buy it.

>

> Why eliminate the naturally occurring enzymes and antioxidants? That

> doesn't make any sense.

> By sterilizing and denaturing the fruit.... what's left of the natural

> medicinal?

> The only reason I could see in eliminating enzymes is to be able to keep

> the

> product on the shelf longer (dead energy)

>

> So, this goes entirely against the basic premise of buying the GoChi

> product

> because it supposedly comes from " fresh " fruits, which have been

> sterilized,

> deproteined and lack crucial antioxidants.

> What I am missing here?

>

> 1. They say that GoChi juice has no enzymes = proteins :

> " this process would not be suitable if GoChi contained protein, as it would

> also be coagulated, but GoChi contains no protein. "

>

> 2. and GoChi juice does not have crucial antioxidants:

> " As for the antioxidants in goji, they are largely carotenoids (zeaxanthin,

> lutein and lycopene) and they are not found in any considerable quantity in

> the juice, as they reside mainly in the skins and seeds of the berry, which

> we exclude from GoChi. "

>

> Zeaxanthin and Lutein are the two caroteinoids inside the retina of the eye

> (these are reasons why Gou qi zi benefits the eyes).

>

> " Within the central macula <http://en.wikipedia .org/wiki/ Macula>,

> zeaxanthin

> is the dominant component, whereas in the peripheral retina,

> lutein<http://en.wikipedia .org/wiki/ Lutein>predominates. ..There is

> epidemiological <http://en.wikipedia .org/wiki/ Epidemiology> evidence of

> a

> relationship between low plasma

> <http://en.wikipedia .org/wiki/ Blood_plasma>concentrations of lutein

> and zeaxanthin on the one hand, and the risk of

> developing age-related macular

> degeneration<http://en.wikipedia .org/wiki/ Age-related_ macular_degenera

> tion>(AMD)

> on the other. Some studies support the view that supplemental lutein

> and/or zeaxanthin help protect against AMD. There is also epidemiological

> evidence that increasing lutein and zeaxanthin intake lowers the risk of

> cataract <http://en.wikipedia .org/wiki/ Cataract> development. [*citation

> needed <http://en.wikipedia .org/wiki/ Wikipedia: Citation_ needed>*] On

> September 10, 2007, in a 6-year study,

> researchers<http://en.wikipedia .org/wiki/ Researchers>,

> led by John Paul SanGiovanni of the National Eye

> Institute<http://en.wikipedia .org/wiki/ National_ Eye_Institute>,

> Maryland <http://en.wikipedia .org/wiki/ Maryland> found that

> Lutein<http://en.wikipedia .org/wiki/ Lutein>and zeaxanthin (

> nutrients <http://en.wikipedia .org/wiki/ Nutrients> in

> eggs<http://en.wikipedia .org/wiki/ Egg_%28food% 29>,

> spinach <http://en.wikipedia .org/wiki/ Spinach> and other

> green<http://en.wikipedia .org/wiki/ Green>

> vegetables <http://en.wikipedia .org/wiki/ Vegetables>) protect against

> blindness <http://en.wikipedia .org/wiki/ Blindness> (macular

> degeneration<http://en.wikipedia .org/wiki/ Macular_degenera tion>),

> affecting 1.2 million Americans <http://en.wikipedia .org/wiki/

> United_States>,

> mostly after age 65. Lutein and zeaxanthin reduce the risk of

> AMD<http://en.wikipedia .org/wiki/ AMD>(

> journal <http://en.wikipedia .org/wiki/ Journal> Archives of

> Ophthalmology<http://en.wikipedia .org/wiki/ Archives_ of_Ophthalmology>).

> Foods considered good sources of the nutrients also include

> kale<http://en.wikipedia .org/wiki/ Kale>,

> turnip <http://en.wikipedia .org/wiki/ Turnip>

> greens<http://en.wikipedia .org/wiki/ Greens>,

> collard <http://en.wikipedia .org/wiki/ Collard> greens, romaine

> lettuce<http://en.wikipedia .org/wiki/ Romaine_lettuce>,

> broccoli <http://en.wikipedia .org/wiki/ Broccoli>,

> zucchini<http://en.wikipedia .org/wiki/ Zucchini>,

> corn <http://en.wikipedia .org/wiki/ Corn>,

> garden<http://en.wikipedia .org/wiki/ Garden>

> peas <http://en.wikipedia .org/wiki/ Peas> and Brussels

> sprouts<http://en.wikipedia .org/wiki/ Brussels_ sprouts>

> .[1] <http://en.wikipedia .org/wiki/ Zeaxanthin# cite_note- PMID17846363-

> 0>

> http://en.wikipedia .org/wiki/ Zeaxanthin

>

> Lycopene: " Given its antioxidant properties, substantial scientific and

> clinical research has been devoted to a possible correlation between

> lycopene consumption and general health. Early research suggested some

> amelioration of cardiovascular

> disease<http://en.wikipedia .org/wiki/ Cardiovascular_ disease>,

> cancer <http://en.wikipedia .org/wiki/ Cancer>,

> diabetes<http://en.wikipedia .org/wiki/ Diabetes>,

> osteoporosis <http://en.wikipedia .org/wiki/ Osteoporosis>, and even male

> infertility <http://en.wikipedia .org/wiki/ Infertility>.[16] " <

> http://en.wikipedia .org/wiki/ Lycopene# cite_note- 15>

>

> http://en.wikipedia .org/wiki/ Lycopene

>

> ?

>

> On Tue, Aug 26, 2008 at 1:40 PM, wrote:

>

> > Kokko,

> >

> > Here's the answer to your questions on the processing:

> >

> > Could you elaborate on the proprietary aseptic sterilization?

> >

> > The unprocessed juice is transported through a narrow-diameter stainless

> > steel tube that is in turn surrounded by a jacketing tube containing

> > pressurized live steam. This rapidly heats the product to about 250ËšF for

> 4

> > seconds, which is all that is required to coagulate microbial proteins.

> This

> > process would not be suitable if GoChi contained protein, as it would

> also

> > be coagulated, but GoChi contains no protein.

> >

> > The now-sterile juice continues through the stainless steel tube which is

> > now surrounded by an outer jacket filled with refrigerant, quickly

> lowering

> > the temperature of the juice to 38ËšF within 7 seconds. Although our

> active

> > principles (Lycium barbarum polysaccharides) are heat labile, the

> 4-second

> > duration does no significant harm, and we have proven this by extensive

> pre-

> > and post-sterilization testing.

> >

> >

> > Is the product irradiated? If this is proprietary information, will they

> > keep that secret?

> > How does their sterilization process target only microbes and bacteria

> and

> > keep antioxidants and enzymes intact?

> >

> > No it is not irradiated. As far as enzymes are concerned, with rare

> > exceptions (e.g., the sulfhydryl proteases in pineapple, papaya, fig),

> there

> > are no enzymes worth conserving in most fruits. This is where we strongly

> > disagree with the raw food movement, who believe erroneously that there

> are

> > beneficial enzymes in raw foods. This belief, which arises from some

> > philosophical works from the 1920s, has been thoroughly discredited by

> > science. Ironically, raw foods contain enzymes that do not promote

> > digestion, but which rather inhibit it, because that is their function in

> > the plant. They are anti-nutrients, which exist to prevent the premature

> > breakdown of starches and proteins until they are needed to nurture the

> > germinated seedling. Once sprouted or germinated, beneficial enzymes are

> > generated (such as the maltase in barley). But until the time of

> > germination, the native anti-nutrient enzymes in most raw plant foods

> will,

> > if taken into the body in

> > sufficient quantity, block the absorption and utilization of ingested

> > carbohydrates, proteins and fats. These anti-nutrients are found in

> largest

> > quantity in legumes and in non-sprouted grains, which is why they should

> > never be consumed in raw form.

> >

> > As for the antioxidants in goji, they are largely carotenoids

> (zeaxanthin,

> > lutein and lycopene) and they are not found in any considerable quantity

> in

> > the juice, as they reside mainly in the skins and seeds of the berry,

> which

> > we exclude from GoChi. But we do not discard the skins and seeds, and in

> > fact, we are about to launch a new product next month that will highlight

> > these important carotenoids. The antioxidant power of GoChi is not to be

> > found in the bottle. Rather, we have clinically demonstrated that the LBP

> in

> > GoChi is able to significantly increase the body's production of the

> > endogenous antioxidants superoxide dismutase and glutathione peroxidase,

> and

> > we believe that this is far more valuable to human health than merely

> > introducing fruit polyphenols which may or may not have systemic effect.

> >

> >

> > www.traditionaljewi shmedicine. net

> >

> >

> > --- On Mon, 8/25/08, <johnkokko (AT) gmail (DOT) com<johnkokko%40gmail.

> com>>

> > wrote:

> >

> > <johnkokko (AT) gmail (DOT) com <johnkokko%40gmail. com>>

> > Re: Follow up questions on Gou Qi Zi juice-GoChi : Enzyme

> > loss with Pasteurization

> > <Traditional_

> Chinese_Medicine %40. com>

> > Monday, August 25, 2008, 12:47 PM

> >

> > Yehuda,

> >

> > Could you ask them to elaborate on their proprietary aseptic

> sterilization

> > process?

> > Is the product irradiated? If this is proprietary information, will they

> > keep that secret?

> > How does their sterilization process target only microbes and bacteria

> and

> > keep antioxidants and enzymes intact?

> >

> > K.

> >

> > On Mon, Aug 25, 2008 at 10:46 AM, yehuda frischman

<wrote:

> >

> > > Kokko,

> > >

> > > Here's what they say:

> > >

> > > Though their original formula Himalayan Goji Juice contained less than

> > > one-tenth of 1% of sodium benzoate and potassium sorbate...

> > > " GoChi is not perishable, because it contains absolutely no spoilage

> > > organisms. In fact, it contains no microbes at all, thanks to our

> > > proprietary aseptic sterilization process. Like any fresh food, it

> should

> > be

> > > refrigerated promptly after opening, should be kept tightly closed

> except

> > > for when it is being poured, and should be consumed within 30 days of

> > > opening. "

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > www.traditionaljewi shmedicine. net

> > >

> > >

> > > --- On Mon, 8/25/08, <johnkokko (AT) gmail (DOT) com<johnkokko%

> 40gmail.

> > com>>

> > > wrote:

> > >

> > > <johnkokko (AT) gmail (DOT) com <johnkokko%40gmail. com>>

> > > Re: Follow up questions on Gou Qi Zi juice-GoChi :

> Enzyme

> > > loss with Pasteurization

> > > <Traditional_

> > Chinese_Medicine %40. com>

> > > Monday, August 25, 2008, 10:19 AM

> > >

> > > Yehuda,

> > >

> > > That's good to know.

> > > But, how do they keep the product from bacterial and mold build-up

> > without

> > > preservatives?

> > > Or are there some preservatives, since it isn't heat pasteurized?

> > > K.

> > >

> > > On Mon, Aug 25, 2008 at 9:49 AM, yehuda frischman

<wrote:

> > >

> > > > Kokko,

> > > >

> > > > I goofed, and you're right. GoChi is NOT pasteurized or heat

> processed.

> > I

> > > > had assumed that it was, but when I check carefully one of their

> > websites

> > > I

> > > > saw the following:

> > > >

> > > > " Our goji berries are not heat processed or pasteurized like others

> on

> > > the

> > > > market as this would destroy the delicate balance of glyconutrients,

> > > which

> > > > is what makes this product superior to any other copy cat on the

> > market. "

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > www.traditionaljewi shmedicine. net

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > --- On Mon, 8/25/08, <johnkokko (AT) gmail (DOT) com<johnkokko%

> > 40gmail.

> > > com>>

> > > > wrote:

> > > >

> > > > <johnkokko (AT) gmail (DOT) com <johnkokko%40gmail. com>>

> > > > Re: Follow up questions on Gou Qi Zi juice-GoChi :

> > Enzyme

> > > > loss with Pasteurization

> > > > <Traditional_

> > > Chinese_Medicine %40. com>

> > > > Monday, August 25, 2008, 9:19 AM

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Yehuda,

> > > >

> > > > Thanks for bringing that up... Flash pasteurization is HEAT (70

> degrees

> > > > celsius) pasteurization,

> > > > which denatures (deactivates) crucial enzymes which make the Gou qi

> zi

> > > > traditionally effective.

> > > > An example of a Gou qi zi enzyme are cerebrosides:

> > > > which " was shown to protect liver cells from a toxic dry-cleaning

> > > chemical

> > > > better than the well-known liver protectant milk thistle "

> > > > http://www.smart- publications. com/overall_ health/goji_ berry.php

> > > >

> > > > This is also a good reason to not decoct the berry (heat deactivation

> > of

> > > > enzymes), but just to chew it.

> > > >

> > > > This is a disadvantage of the juices that you get at the store or

> > through

> > > a

> > > > MLM group.

> > > > Better just to make a smoothie at home with the whole fruit (dried or

> > > not).

> > > >

> > > > Usually when the herbs are dried by traditional methods via

> > farmers/herb

> > > > salers, they are dried at lower heats (below pasteurization levels)

> or

> > in

> > > > the sun (below 70 degrees celsius = 158 degrees fahrenheit)

> > > > The regulatory flash pasteurization by the Go-Chi company neutralizes

> > > their

> > > > fresh picked puree process, in relation to enzymes,

> > > > which are a crucial component to the Gou Qi zi's legendary powers.

> > > > Furthermore, when the product sits on the shelf (unfrozen) for weeks

> to

> > > > months, the antioxidant load also decreases.

> > > >

> > > > K.

> > > >

> > > > On Mon, Aug 25, 2008 at 1:02 AM, yehuda frischman

<wrote:

> > > >

> > > > > Hi Kokko,

> > > > >

> > > > > The point of the study was that drying significantly lowers the

> > > > > berry anthocyanin content. Now you are contending that it is a

> > stretch

> > > to

> > > > > apply the fresh standards to Go Chi, which is essentially pureed

> and

> > > then

> > > > > flash pasteurized. We will wait for the studies to be published,

> but

> > my

> > > > > point was that assuming that their process is able to sustain the

> > > benefit

> > > > of

> > > > > the fresh fruit, then it would be significantly more beneficial

> than

> > > > dried

> > > > > Gou Qi Zi.

> > > > >

> > > > > We'll see!

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > www.traditionaljewi shmedicine. net

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > --- On Fri, 8/22/08, <johnkokko (AT) gmail (DOT) com<johnkokko%

> > > 40gmail.

> > > > com>>

> > > > > wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > <johnkokko (AT) gmail (DOT) com <johnkokko%40gmail. com>>

> > > > > Re: Follow up questions on Gou Qi Zi juice-GoChi

> > > > > <Traditional_

> > > > Chinese_Medicine %40. com>

> > > >

> > > > > Friday, August 22, 2008, 5:03 PM

> > > > >

> > > > > Yehuda,

> > > > >

> > > > > Thanks for the pubmed study and am excited to see the forthcoming

> > > > studies.

> > > > > Of course, any company would only publish results which would

> support

> > > the

> > > > > sale of their own product,

> > > > > so hopefully we can see the entire results, irrespective of the

> > > outcome,

> > > > in

> > > > > the name of science.

> > > > >

> > > > > If we go by content as the basis of our evaluation of the Go-chi

> > > > > product,

> > > > > The " Change of Total Anthocyanins in Blueberries and Their

> > Antioxidant

> > > > > Effect After Drying and Freezing " study that you linked for us

> > > > > had these results:

> > > > >

> > > > > * " Table 1*

> > > > >

> > > > > Anthocyanin content in evaluated samples.

> > > > > Blueberry samplesTotal anthocyaninsmg/ g dry matter

> > > > > ------------ --------- ---------

> > > > > Fresh blueberries (FR0)7.2 ± 0.5a**Fresh blueberries 2-week5.7 ±

> > > > > 0.5abstorage

> > > > > at 5°C (FR2)Untreated dried (UN)4.3 ± 0.1bcPretreated dried (PT)3.7

> ±

> > > > > 0.2cStored

> > > > > frozen for 1 month (FZ1M)8.1 ± 0.1aStored frozen for 3 months

> > (FZ3M)7.9

> > > ±

> > > > > 1.3a "

> > > > >

> > > > > Which one of these would the Go-chi product fall under? Once the

> > > product

> > > > is

> > > > > put on the shelf even after initial freezing, the anthocyanin level

> > > falls

> > > > > to

> > > > > levels of those of " Untreated Dried " .

> > > > > 5.7 +/- .5 (if stored at 5 degrees celsius, which I don't believe

> the

> > > > > Go-chi product is consistently stored at, because of

> transportation,

> > > > > distribution to customers via vendors via outlets and storage) vs.

> > 4.3

> > > > +/-

> > > > > .1 (if untreated and dried)

> > > > > This anthocyanin content difference is not significant.

> > > > > When the product becomes unfrozen and goes on the shelf for weeks

> to

> > > > > months,

> > > > > the anythocyanin level will drop to levels below that of 5.7 +/- .5

> > > > > (according to the decreasing trend).

> > > > >

> > > > > This study was also ex vivo. But from the results, we can see that

> a

> > > > > product which is not kept consistently frozen, does not have any

> > > > > significant

> > > > > increase in anthocyanins than a product which is untreated and

> dried

> > > (ie.

> > > > > organic dried gou qi zi).

> > > > >

> > > > > So, for now, I'll stick to the dried gou qi zi.

> > > > > If you can find some fresh-frozen gou qi zi berries, that's another

> > > > story.

> > > > >

> > > > > Respectfully,

> > > > > K.

> > > > >

> > > > > On Thu, Aug 21, 2008 at 10:47 AM, yehuda frischman

<wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > > Dear Kokko,

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Studies do show that drying decreases anthocyanin content in

> fruit.

> > > > > > See:(http://www.pubmedce ntral.nih. gov/articlerende

> r.fcgi?artid=

> > > > > 1082901

> > > > >

> > > > > > And again the problem I have with ORAC scoring is that it just

> > > measures

> > > > > in

> > > > > > vitro, not in vivo. The amount of grape and pomegranate juice

> added

> > > to

> > > > Go

> > > > > > Chi IMO is statistically insignificant (3%) and is added to

> enhance

> > > > > flavor.

> > > > > > Of course, this could present a problem to someone hypersensitive

> > > > > > to pomegranates and/or grapes (I have two such patients!)

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Your concerns, I think, are one of the reasons that Freelife has

> > > > > conducted

> > > > > > other clinical studies, and I await the published results of the

> > two

> > > > > > additional studies submitted to peer-review journals which should

> > be

> > > > out

> > > > > > before the end of the year which I referred to earlier: The

> immune

> > > > study

> > > > > > testing and comparing the significant difference of three markers

> > in

> > > > vivo

> > > > > :

> > > > > > lymphocytes, IL-2 and IgG, and the antioxidant study testing and

> > > > > comparing,

> > > > > > again, in vivo levels of SOD, GSH-Px and MDA.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Concerning the cost, they claim that the costs involved in their

> > > > > production

> > > > > > are " higher than any other, as we are the only company that is

> > using

> > > > > fresh

> > > > > > berries and not dried. The logistics of transporting and quickly

> > > > > processing

> > > > > > our berries in rural northern China are daunting.... " That

> doesn't

> > > > seem

> > > > > > unreasonable to me, assuming that what they are claiming is true.

> > It

> > > is

> > > > > > also telling, I think, that they are investing a significant

> amount

> > > of

> > > > > > their budget to research and development in order to support

> their

> > > > claims

> > > > > > scientifically. I think that this also is unique for companies

> > > hawking

> > > > a

> > > > > > product.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Again, the two additional studies have been presented and will be

> > > > > published

> > > > > > shortly, apparently. They say that other studies are forthcoming.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > As always, I appreciate your insightful questions and desire to

> > > > reinforce

> > > > > > scientific validation of our wonderful medicine.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > All the best,

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Yehuda

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Yehuda,

> > > > > > Thanks for relaying this info to the group.

> > > > > > I'm not convinced that the fresh puree that has been

> reconstituted,

> > > > > > bottled,

> > > > > > shipped and sitting on a non-refrigerated shelf is going to have

> > more

> > > > > > nutritional value than the dried fruit that can be eaten whole or

> > > > > decocted

> > > > > > immediately be a patient or practitioner.

> > > > > > There was a clinical study done to compare the " Antioxidant

> > capacity

> > > > and

> > > > > > phenolic content of grapes, sun-dried raisins, and golden raisins

> > and

> > > > > their

> > > > > > effect on ex vivo serum antioxidant capacity. "

> > > > > >

> > > > > > " The objectives of this study were to compare the antioxidant

> > > capacity

> > > > > and

> > > > > > phenolic content of green Thompson seedless grapes (the most

> common

> > > > > variety

> > > > > > of grapes consumed in the United States), sun-dried raisins, and

> > > golden

> > > > > > raisins (both produced from Thompson seedless grapes) and to

> > observe

> > > > the

> > > > > > effects of their consumption over 4 weeks in 15 healthy human

> males

> > > > with

> > > > > a

> > > > > > cross-over design. The oxygen radical absorbance capacity (ORAC)

> > > > > (positive

> > > > > > statistical significance for grapes after 2 weeks and golden

> > raisins

> > > > > after

> > > > > > 3

> > > > > > weeks), serum oxidation (positive statistical significance for

> > golden

> > > > > > raisin

> > > > > > lag time after 4 weeks), total phenolics (no significant

> effects),

> > > and

> > > > > > C-reactive protein (no significant effects) were monitored. "

> > > > > >

> > > > > > *The conclusions from the study were that, " Golden raisins had

> the

> > > > > highest

> > > > > > antioxidant capacity and phenolic content. " *

> > > > > > http://cat.inist. fr/?aModele= afficheN & cpsidt=19186324

> > > > > >

> > > > > > So, more clinical research needs to be done to be convincing that

> > the

> > > > > > Go-chi

> > > > > > juice is more beneficial than the traditional dried berries,

> > > especially

> > > > > for

> > > > > > the price differential.

> > > > > > If raisins have similar or even higher antioxidant profiles than

> > the

> > > > > fresh

> > > > > > grapes from which they were derived, why pay 10 times more for

> the

> > > same

> > > > > > stuff in a bottle? (Since these fresh gou qi zi vs dried gou qi

> zi

> > > > > studies

> > > > > > have not been published, how can we truly know other than make

> > > > > > speculations,

> > > > > > as the Go-chi juice sales representative has done)

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Also, since grape and pomegranate juice are added to the puree

> for

> > > the

> > > > > > Go-chi juice,

> > > > > > doesn't that skew the results for the studies, since it has been

> > long

> > > > > > verified that grape and pomegranate juices are among the highest

> > ORAC

> > > > > > scored

> > > > > > foods? That doesn't give credence to " Go-chi " juice, but the

> power

> > of

> > > > > > grape and pomegranate juices mixed with Gou qi zi (which has

> > already

> > > > been

> > > > > > validated by traditional use).

> > > > > >

> > > > > > What if I chewed dried gou qi zi mixing it with my salivary

> > enzymes,

> > > > > > instead

> > > > > > of having a processing blade slice it and then have it take weeks

> > to

> > > > > months

> > > > > > to get to my mouth?

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Without this evidence, it would be difficult for me to sell the

> > > > " Go-chi "

> > > > > > product instead of giving my patients a pound of Organic dried

> Gou

> > qi

> > > > zi.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Respectfully,

> > > > > > K.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > On Thu, Aug 21, 2008 at 4:34 AM, yehuda frischman

> < >wrote:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Dear colleagues,

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > About two weeks ago, I wrote to you asking for your feedback

> > > > concerning

> > > > > > > Gou Qi Zi juice sold as GoChi by Freelife. I had a number of

> > > > questions

> > > > > > and

> > > > > > > doubts about the product, and as I expressed, the concept of

> > > > > multi-level

> > > > > > > marketing I find abhorrent. I took your questions as well as my

> > > own,

> > > > > and

> > > > > > > presented them to the Freelife's chief products officer. Below

> > are

> > > my

> > > > > > > questions and the answers I received:

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Q.It would be wise to have research done not by an employee of

> > > > > Freelife.

> > > > > > > It gives the impression of being jaded.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > A. Like all peer-reviewed journals, the Journal of Alternative

> > and

> > > > > > > Complementary Medicine blinds their expert judges, so they had

> no

> > > > idea

> > > > > > that

> > > > > > > the study was performed by the eminent Dr. Amagase and Dr.

> Nance.

> > > > > > Regardless

> > > > > > > of who designs or conducts a study, the fairness and honesty

> are

> > > > > > guaranteed

> > > > > > > by randomizing, double-blinding and placebo control. In our

> > second

> > > > and

> > > > > > third

> > > > > > > studies, Dr. Amagase was a corresponding author and did not

> > conduct

> > > > the

> > > > > > > study. We have other unreleased studies that have been

> conducted

> > > > around

> > > > > > the

> > > > > > > world by members of our independent Scientific Advisory Board.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Q. To be really considered seriously by the scientific

> community,

> > > > > studies

> > > > > > > should certainly be for longer than two weeks and they should

> be

> > > > > > conducted

> > > > > > > by objective third parties who do not have a vested interest in

> > > their

> > > > > > > validation.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > A. We respectfully disagree. For years, our customers had been

> > > > telling

> > > > > us

> > > > > > > that they were getting remarkable results from our product

> within

> > > two

> > > > > > weeks

> > > > > > > or less. Frankly, we didn't believe them because there was

> > nothing

> > > in

> > > > > the

> > > > > > > history of Traditional to support this. But,

> > then

> > > > > again,

> > > > > > > goji's history in TCM has been in the form of dried berries,

> and

> > > our

> > > > > > product

> > > > > > > is the first ever to be made from fresh berries, and therefore

> > > > delivers

> > > > > > far

> > > > > > > more of the goji berry's bioactive polysaccharides. And so, we

> > > > decided

> > > > > to

> > > > > > > see if our customers were really experiencing these reported

> > > benefits

> > > > > or

> > > > > > if

> > > > > > > they were simply experiencing a placebo effect. We designed and

> > > > > conducted

> > > > > > a

> > > > > > > 14 day randomized, double-blind, placebo controlled study and

> > found

> > > > > that

> > > > > > our

> > > > > > > customers were not crazy after all. The peer review judges at

> the

> > > > > medical

> > > > > > > journal that accepted and published our study had no problem

> with

> > > its

> > > > > 14

> > > > > > day

> > > > > > > duration, or that it was conducted on FreeLife

> > > > > > > employees. Our second and third studies were conducted for 30

> > days

> > > > > each,

> > > > > > > and on larger populations who had no knowledge of FreeLife or

> our

> > > > > > products.

> > > > > > > Other ongoing and planned studies are at 60 and 90 day

> duration.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Q. These studies are very important to me and I would like to

> > know

> > > > when

> > > > > > > they will be published and authenticated.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > A. They are undergoing the peer review process at two separate

> > > > > journals,

> > > > > > > which can take several month. We can't disclose the names of

> the

> > > > > journals

> > > > > > > because they have prohibited us from doing so, but we hope that

> > > both

> > > > > > studies

> > > > > > > will be accepted and published by the end of 2008.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Q. It would be helpful to conduct studies comparing the

> efficacy

> > of

> > > > > juice

> > > > > > > from fresh Gou Qi ZI berries as opposed to reconstituted juice

> > from

> > > > > dried

> > > > > > > berries.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > A. There's nothing wrong with using the dried gou qi zi, as has

> > > been

> > > > > done

> > > > > > > in China for thousands of years. But, as with any other fruit,

> we

> > > > > believe

> > > > > > > that fresh is better than dried. I always use the example of

> > grapes

> > > > vs.

> > > > > > > raisins. When we know that the reason that red grapes are

> healthy

> > > > > because

> > > > > > of

> > > > > > > the red pigment anthocyanin, how could one expect to get the

> same

> > > > > benefit

> > > > > > > from raisins or from raisin juice?

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Q. Can you tell me precisely where the Gou Qi Zi berry that

> > > Freelife

> > > > > uses

> > > > > > > comes from?

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > A. From the Yellow River floodplains of Ningxia Hui province in

> > > north

> > > > > > > central China. There are also some great berries grown in

> > Xinjiang

> > > > > Uygur

> > > > > > > province in the west, but our problem with using them is that

> we

> > > > > wouldn't

> > > > > > be

> > > > > > > able to get the fresh berries transported to our juicing plant

> in

> > > > Gansu

> > > > > > > province quickly enough to prevent spoilage.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Q. Why is the product called Himalayan Goji when it comes from

> > > > Ningxia

> > > > > > Hui

> > > > > > > province in north central China, and Xinjiang Uygur in the

> > > Northwest.

> > > > > > These

> > > > > > > are nowhere near the Himalayas?

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > A. The Himalayan people were the originators of a comprehensive

> > > > > > > wellness-based system of medicine, which predates TCM. They

> > taught

> > > > > their

> > > > > > > system to the visiting Chinese silk traders and scholars, who

> > > > > ultimately

> > > > > > > refined it. Several Lycium species were used by the Himalayans,

> > and

> > > > > > > according to legend, the Chinese visitors took samples home

> with

> > > them

> > > > > and

> > > > > > > planted them in their own valleys in northern and northwestern

> > > China.

> > > > > The

> > > > > > > name " Himalayan Goji Juice " was meant only to honor the

> > discoverers

> > > > of

> > > > > > the

> > > > > > > berry, but it was precisely because of confusion that we named

> > our

> > > > new

> > > > > > > product " GoChi " .

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Q. I am confused about an apparent contradiction. From what you

> > > > > > > represented to me, and from what the brochure " The pursuit of

> > > > > perfection "

> > > > > > > states, the berries used are freshly picked, cold pressed and

> > > packed

> > > > in

> > > > > > > aseptic containers before they are shipped overseas (not

> > > > reconstituted!

> > > > > )

> > > > > > > Yet, in the first study by Amagase and Nance it states on page

> > 404

> > > > > under

> > > > > > > Materials and Methods: " ...This test material is a liquid

> dietary

> > > > > > supplement

> > > > > > > containing reconstituted juice from fresh whole L. Barbarum

> fruit

> > > > with

> > > > > > 10%

> > > > > > > excipients by volume. " So which is it?

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > A.The berries are freshly picked in Ningxia Hui, and are then

> > > shipped

> > > > > to

> > > > > > > our modern processing facility in nearby Gansu province. There,

> > > they

> > > > > are

> > > > > > > cold-pressed, after which about 50% of the water is removed by

> > cold

> > > > (36

> > > > > –

> > > > > > > 38ËšF), vacuum-assisted rotary thin-film evaporation. That gives

> > us

> > > a

> > > > > > > concentrated puree (of a consistency somewhat like thin tomato

> > > > paste).

> > > > > We

> > > > > > do

> > > > > > > this because the harvesting season is only 3 months long (July

> –

> > > > > > September),

> > > > > > > and we must purchase and prepare enough goji puree to last the

> > rest

> > > > of

> > > > > > the

> > > > > > > year (with accommodations for anticipated growth). Removing the

> > > water

> > > > > > makes

> > > > > > > it easier to store the puree under refrigerated conditions in

> > > > > aseptically

> > > > > > > sterilized totes. From a microbiological standpoint, removing

> the

> > > > water

> > > > > > also

> > > > > > > reduces water activity, meaning that the puree is far less

> likely

> > > to

> > > > > > harbor

> > > > > > > bacteria and other microbes. Once we are ready for final

> > > processing,

> > > > > the

> > > > > > > puree is air-freighted to our bottling plant in the U.S., where

> > it

> > > is

> > > > > > > reconstituted (meaning that the exact amount of water that was

> > > > removed

> > > > > in

> > > > > > > Gansu is now replenished) , and then it is blended with a small

> > > > (<10%)

> > > > > of

> > > > > > > grape and pomegranate juice to ensure a uniform color (our

> > berries

> > > > are

> > > > > > > picked for their polysaccharide content, not their color) and

> > some

> > > > > > natural

> > > > > > > goji berry flavor (because once again, our berries have the

> > highest

> > > > LBP

> > > > > > > content and not always the sweetest taste – the natural goji

> > berry

> > > > > flavor

> > > > > > > ensures that every bottle will taste the same). Lastly, the

> > product

> > > > is

> > > > > > > aseptically sterilized by a 4-second heat treatment (actually a

> > > > shvitz

> > > > > > with

> > > > > > > live steam) that only coagulates microbial proteins and does

> not

> > > harm

> > > > > the

> > > > > > > delicate LBP content. We proved this during our process design

> > and

> > > > > > > validation phase, and we test every batch to ensure that our

> > > product

> > > > is

> > > > > > > pristine and fully potent.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Q. Would it not be indicated to publish a research study

> > comparing

> > > > the

> > > > > > > potency of fresh Gou Qi Zi juice as opposed to reconstituted

> > juice

> > > > > > (assuming

> > > > > > > that Freelife Go Chi juice is indeed fresh!).

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > A. This is a very interesting idea, and if we had an unlimited

> > > > research

> > > > > > > budget, I would love to do a study comparing our product with

> > those

> > > > of

> > > > > > our

> > > > > > > competitors, all of whom are using dried berries.

> Unfortunately,

> > > > there

> > > > > is

> > > > > > a

> > > > > > > limit to the size of Ray and Kevin's wallet, but I can tell you

> > > this.

> > > > > We

> > > > > > > have analyzed every competing product that we have found on the

> > > > market,

> > > > > > > including Goji 100, Goji Gold, Goji Splash and the rest, and we

> > > have

> > > > > not

> > > > > > > found one that has even one-third of our LBP content. And we

> > truly

> > > > > > believe,

> > > > > > > as do most researchers, that the power of goji lies in these

> > > amazing

> > > > > > > glycopeptides known as Lycium barbarum polysaccharides (why

> > Chinese

> > > > > > > researchers named them polysaccharides is a mystery to me,

> > > especially

> > > > > > when

> > > > > > > it's the amino acids on the glycopeptide surface – and their

> > strong

> > > > > > > resemblance to microbial antigens – that initiates and promotes

> > > > immune

> > > > > > > response). We also believe that there is significant LBP

> > > degradation

> > > > in

> > > > > > > dried berries. Is

> > > > > > > it enough to render them ineffective? No. The long history of

> use

> > > of

> > > > > gou

> > > > > > qi

> > > > > > > zi in TCM is testimony to its effectiveness, but we are seeing

> > with

> > > > our

> > > > > > > product is quite remarkable. In China, people take gou qi zi

> over

> > a

> > > > > > lifetime

> > > > > > > to achieve moderate improvement in disease resistance and

> health.

> > > But

> > > > > > we're

> > > > > > > seeing dramatic short-term improvement, and perhaps that's the

> > > > biggest

> > > > > > > difference in using fresh berries – more polysaccharide power.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Q. Would you be able to share with me the comparative analysis

> of

> > > the

> > > > > > > other Goji juice products?

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > A. Sorry, but that information is highly confidential. Our

> > > philosophy

> > > > > is

> > > > > > > that we would rather promote our product based on its

> clinically

> > > > > > > demonstrated benefit rather than by slamming our competitors.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Q. Can you explain in detail how the 90 day money back

> guarantee

> > > > works.

> > > > > I

> > > > > > > understand that if not satisfied than when 90 days worth of

> > bottles

> > > > are

> > > > > > > returned, the amount paid for them will be refunded in full,

> > > correct?

> > > > > > > Well, first of all, I understand that this is based upon

> drinking

> > 4

> > > > oz

> > > > > > > per day, but how many bottles does that mean? Also, what if two

> > or

> > > > > three

> > > > > > > family members have been drinking the Go Chi juice, and none of

> > > them

> > > > > are

> > > > > > > satisfied, if all three return their bottles will they receive

> > the

> > > > same

> > > > > > > refund?

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > A. FreeLife's no risk guarantee is just that: If you are

> > > dissatisfied

> > > > > > > with our product for any reason, return it within 90 days and

> > > receive

> > > > a

> > > > > > > 100% refund, even if the bottle is empty! If you join FreeLife

> > and

> > > > you

> > > > > > > decide it is not for you even after 90 days, just let Freelife

> > know

> > > > > that

> > > > > > you

> > > > > > > wish to cancel. Freelife will " refund your money less a 10%

> > > handling

> > > > > fee

> > > > > > for

> > > > > > > all resalable product and sales aids you purchased within one

> > year

> > > of

> > > > > > your

> > > > > > > decision to cancel " .

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Q. What are the production costs that are involved, and why

> such

> > an

> > > > > > > enormous price per bottle. Please show me how what is charged

> is

> > > not

> > > > a

> > > > > > > reflection of a price which is inflated to benefit those higher

> > up

> > > in

> > > > > the

> > > > > > > Multi-level marketing chain?

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > A. The cost of our product is far higher than any other, as we

> > are

> > > > the

> > > > > > > only company that is using fresh berries and not dried. The

> > > logistics

> > > > > of

> > > > > > > transporting and quickly processing our berries in rural

> northern

> > > > China

> > > > > > are

> > > > > > > daunting, and are very costly. Also, we would ask that you

> > consider

> > > > the

> > > > > > > millions of dollars that we are spending on clinical research

> and

> > > > > > charitable

> > > > > > > works. When compared to products such as Goji 100, we are

> > > > competitively

> > > > > > > priced. We feel no reason to compete with the low-grade goji

> > > products

> > > > > > sold

> > > > > > > at deep discount in Wal-Mart and other outlets. We truly

> believe

> > > that

> > > > > > GoChi

> > > > > > > provides outstanding value for the money, even at the full

> retail

> > > > > price.

> > > > > > > However, many of our Marketing Executives receive rebates and

> > > bonuses

> > > > > > that

> > > > > > > result in them paying little or nothing for their product. Our

> > > > > > compensation

> > > > > > > plan benefits everyone who chooses to pursue our business

> > > > opportunity,

> > > > > > and

> > > > > > > it is by far the most generous pay plan in the industry.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Q. Would it not be prudent for Freelife to donate some of their

> > > > profits

> > > > > > > back to the Chinese Medical community, such as to the TCM

> medical

> > > > > > schools,

> > > > > > > community clinics, research facilities, etc. The Chinese

> medical

> > > > > > community

> > > > > > > is an incredible potential ally, for sales referrals, and

> medical

> > > > > > > validation. Yet, thus far, the community views GoChi with much

> > > > > scepticism

> > > > > > > and distrust. As I think I have indicated to you, if I believe

> in

> > a

> > > > > > product

> > > > > > > and receive satisfactory answers to my question, I will promote

> > it.

> > > I

> > > > > can

> > > > > > > assure you that the same is true industry wide, but good will

> > needs

> > > > to

> > > > > be

> > > > > > > cultivated. Comments?

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > A. We have donate generously from our profits to our worldwide

> > > > GojiKids

> > > > > > > foundation, and a good amount of money has been spent in the

> > areas

> > > of

> > > > > > > Ningxia Hui and Gansu provinces where our berries are grown and

> > > > juiced.

> > > > > > > Perhaps some day we will be able to expand our charitable

> efforts

> > > > > beyond

> > > > > > > children's relief efforts, but for now, this is where we are

> > > > dedicating

> > > > > > our

> > > > > > > dollars and our time.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Q. It is customary for suppliers of medicinals, nutraceuticals,

> > and

> > > > > other

> > > > > > > health products to offer licensed practitioners professional

> > > > discounts.

> > > > > > Why

> > > > > > > is that not the policy of Freelife?

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > A. The suppliers that you mention in the practitioner channel

> > have

> > > a

> > > > > > > completely different sales and marketing structure, and our

> plan

> > is

> > > > > > simply

> > > > > > > not optimized to favor one class of customers at the expense of

> > > > others.

> > > > > > As

> > > > > > > stated previously, we do offer many opportunities for product

> > > > rebates,

> > > > > > > volume-driven bonuses and substantial income. I'm just not the

> > > person

> > > > > to

> > > > > > > discuss them with you, as it's not my area of competence.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Q. I am concerned with the hyperbole that has accompanied some

> of

> > > the

> > > > > > sales

> > > > > > > people I have come in contact with. Some of the claims and

> > > > testimonials

> > > > > > > border on health claims which contravene FDA regulations.

> Please

> > > see

> > > > > this

> > > > > > > link to the letter from the FDA.

> > > > > > > http://www.fda. gov/cder/ warn/cyber/ 2006/CL226e. pdf How do

> > you

> > > > > > reconcile

> > > > > > > this?

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > A. I agree completely, and it bothers me tremendously that some

> > of

> > > > our

> > > > > > > people are trying to market our product as some kind of miracle

> > > cure.

> > > > > > This

> > > > > > > letter was sent to a FreeLife distributor, not to FreeLife. We

> > have

> > > a

> > > > > > strict

> > > > > > > policy against making illegal medical claims for our product,

> and

> > > we

> > > > > > > terminate any distributor who fails to take down non-compliant

> > > > websites

> > > > > > or

> > > > > > > who distributes non-compliant materials. This is why FreeLife

> has

> > > > never

> > > > > > > received a warning letter from FDA or a state Attorney-General.

> > You

> > > > > will

> > > > > > not

> > > > > > > find anything on a FreeLife website – past, present, or future

> –

> > > that

> > > > > > says

> > > > > > > anything about using our products for the treatment or cure of

> > any

> > > > > > disease,

> > > > > > > and we strongly recommend to our Marketing Executives that they

> > > speak

> > > > > > only

> > > > > > > of the 19 clinically demonstrated benefits of GoChi and avoid

> > > trying

> > > > to

> > > > > > > promote this product as some type of cure-all. We have no proof

> > > that

> > > > it

> > > > > > is

> > > > > > > effective against any disease or condition, and we have no

> > > intention

> > > > > > > of studying it in any of these areas. Why? Because, in the eyes

> > of

> > > > FDA,

> > > > > > > that would re-classify our product as an unapproved new drug.

> It

> > > > > > currently

> > > > > > > costs about $600 million and 10 years to register a new drug in

> > > this

> > > > > > > country, and you can't sell drugs through Network Marketing, so

> > can

> > > > you

> > > > > > see

> > > > > > > why we would never go that route? We do believe, though that

> > GoChi

> > > is

> > > > > the

> > > > > > > best gou qi zi product on the planet, and we are certain that

> it

> > > will

> > > > > be

> > > > > > a

> > > > > > > valuable addition to the armamentarium of any TCM practitioner.

> > > And,

> > > > > > > although I wish that I could teach restraint to those who would

> > > have

> > > > > you

> > > > > > > believe that GoChi can grow new limbs, I hope that you will

> > forgive

> > > > > them

> > > > > > and

> > > > > > > understand that their exuberance arises from having seen

> > remarkable

> > > > > > changes

> > > > > > > in themselves and in those dear to them as a result of using

> the

> > > > > > > product. But this is not how we promote our product. GoChi has

> > been

> > > > > > > clinically demonstrated against placebo in a published

> > randomized,

> > > > > > > double-blind study to

> > > > > > > significantly improve sleep, energy, mental sharpness, feelings

> > of

> > > > > calm,

> > > > > > > contentment, good health and happiness, to help relieve stress

> > and

> > > to

> > > > > > > improve regularity. Blood tests have shown dramatic increases

> in

> > > the

> > > > > > body's

> > > > > > > ability to defend itself against toxic free radicals and to

> > improve

> > > > > > immune

> > > > > > > defenses. Isn't that enough? If people's medical conditions are

> > > > > improving

> > > > > > > while taking GoChi, it's because they are becoming more

> > > > > immunocompetent.

> > > > > > The

> > > > > > > immune system is G-d's miracle, not the goji berry. GoChi is

> > simply

> > > > the

> > > > > > > humble facilitator that restores balance to immunity. That is

> > > > entirely

> > > > > > > consistent with the use of gou qi zi in Traditional Chinese

> > > Medicine.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > As many of you expressed, I too, harbor a natural scepticism

> > > towards

> > > > > > > products that make spectacular claims. But, in my opinion, the

> > > tough

> > > > > > > questions I asked were answered satisfactorily, and I will now

> > > > > recommend

> > > > > > > this product to those patients who are liver yin and blood, and

> > > > Kidney

> > > > > > yin

> > > > > > > and jing vacuitous.

> > > > > > > The product appears to have quality and the guarantee is

> > > reasonable.

> > > > If

> > > > > > > any of you are interested in it feel free to write or call me.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Sincerely,

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > www.traditionaljewi shmedicine. net

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >