an observation concerning phlegm vs. pathogenic fluids

[Guest guest]

That's why the mai dong is there in that formula to protect the lungs

from the ban xia, ban xia damages the stomach yin and yin in general,

I think xi xin is the strongest for fluid in the lungs, you can

combine with herbs that protect body from the toxic herbs and tonics

to the yin- I would use maybe some nice American ginsengs, wild or

very old woods grown if possible. Pungent foods damage to the yin is

mild, eating hot sauce or onions shouldn't be an issue, some people

that eat it every day start getting xiao ke but that takes years. I

know from personal experience and from my teachers the danger of ban

xia...Chinese people eat a lot of greasy stir-fried foods so their

stomach has more phlegm typically, thus ban xia is worse for Americans

especially those whose stomach yin is damaged from pharmaceut. drugs...

Good luck

PS Yehuda try moxa at lung shu

 

Chinese Medicine , yehuda frischman

< wrote:

>

> I agree Z'ev,

>

> As a matter of fact, Ban Xia is an ingredient in Mai Men Dong Tang,

which treats lung dryness which originates from vacuity.

>

> Respectfully,

>

>

>

>

>

>

> --- On Mon, 9/1/08, <zrosenbe wrote:

>

> <zrosenbe

> Re: Re: an observation concerning phlegm vs.

pathogenic fluids

> Chinese Medicine

> Monday, September 1, 2008, 10:35 AM

Ban xia is not necessarily 'dangerous to the yin'. In the Ben Cao

> Cang Mu/Grand Materia Medica by Li Shih-zhen , it claims that ban xia

> is a 'hua yao/slippery medicinal', that moistens phlegm.

>

>

> On Sep 1, 2008, at 8:08 AM, jasonwcom wrote:

>

> > So why not use pungent herbs, the real problem is the fluid right?

> > Yehuda does she feel better after eating scallions and garlic, hot

> > chilis? Ban Xia is not the only pungent herb, but it is one of the

> > most dangerous to the yin I think...

> >

> > Traditional_ Chinese_Medicine , " Jason

"

> > <@ .> wrote:

> > >

> > > Stephan,

> > >

>

>

>

> Recent Activity

>

>

> 4

> New Photos

>

> 1

> New Links

>

> 1

> New FilesVisit Your Group

>

>

> Give Back

> for Good

> Get inspired

> by a good cause.

>

> Y! Toolbar

> Get it Free!

> easy 1-click access

> to your groups.

>

>

> Start a group

> in 3 easy steps.

> Connect with others.

> .

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

 

[Guest guest]

HI Jason and all

 

Jason said:

That's why the mai dong is there in that formula to protect the lungs

from the ban xia

 

Stephen:

 

Hmmm

I can’t agree with the statement that Mai Men Dong is in Mai Men Dong

Tang to counter Ban Xia. It is the emperor and directly deals with the

core problem. Classically, it was used in high doses.

 

In Jing Gui Yao Lue, this formula is for “extreme counterflow qi and

throat discomfort…” while modern applications include nausea and

vomiting. Ban Xia downbears the qi and thus can help with the

counterflow and is a crucial element of the formula, perhaps second only

to Mai Men Dong itself.

 

Further, the signs and symptoms include coughing of frothy saliva,

wheezing (the sound of phlegm) and some sources include difficult to

expectorate phlegm. Ban Xia is a fantastic herb to break up these

pathological fluids and distribute them via it’s acridity so that

righteous fluids can be engendered.

 

One might argue that Ban Xia is actually present to help the deficient

patient to digest the big dose of greasy herbs in Mai Men Dong Tang,

rather than those herbs being present to protect the patient from Ban

Xia.

 

 

Stephen Woodley LAc

 

--

www.shanghanlunseminars.com

 

--

http://www.fastmail.fm - I mean, what is it about a decent email service?

[Guest guest]

whoops...one more thing...

 

Jason said:

Chinese people eat a lot of greasy stir-fried foods so their stomach has

more phlegm typically, thus ban xia is worse for Americans

 

Question:

Are you suggesting that the American diet isn't full of greasy, fried

and fatty foods?

 

Stephen Woodley LAc

 

--

www.shanghanlunseminars.com

 

 

--

http://www.fastmail.fm - I mean, what is it about a decent email service?

[Guest guest]

I also agree with you, Stephen. As I said before, ban xia's acridity

is balanced by its slippery quality, which actually moistens the

lungs. It doesn't need mai men dong to do so.

 

 

On Sep 8, 2008, at 9:20 AM, stephen woodley wrote:

 

> HI Jason and all

>

> Jason said:

> That's why the mai dong is there in that formula to protect the lungs

> from the ban xia

>

> Stephen:

>

> Hmmm

> I can’t agree with the statement that Mai Men Dong is in Mai Men Dong

> Tang to counter Ban Xia. It is the emperor and directly deals with the

> core problem. Classically, it was used in high doses.

>

> In Jing Gui Yao Lue, this formula is for “extreme counterflow qi and

> throat discomfort…” while modern applications include nausea and

> vomiting. Ban Xia downbears the qi and thus can help with the

> counterflow and is a crucial element of the formula, perhaps second

> only

> to Mai Men Dong itself.

>

> Further, the signs and symptoms include coughing of frothy saliva,

> wheezing (the sound of phlegm) and some sources include difficult to

> expectorate phlegm. Ban Xia is a fantastic herb to break up these

> pathological fluids and distribute them via it’s acridity so that

> righteous fluids can be engendered.

>

> One might argue that Ban Xia is actually present to help the deficient

> patient to digest the big dose of greasy herbs in Mai Men Dong Tang,

> rather than those herbs being present to protect the patient from Ban

> Xia.

>

> Stephen Woodley LAc

>

> --

> www.shanghanlunseminars.com

>

> --

> http://www.fastmail.fm - I mean, what is it about a decent email

> service?

>

>

>

 

 

Chair, Department of Herbal Medicine

Pacific College of Oriental Medicine

San Diego, Ca. 92122

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

stephen woodley wrote:

 

>whoops...one more thing...

>

>Jason said:

>Chinese people eat a lot of greasy stir-fried foods so their stomach has

>more phlegm typically, thus ban xia is worse for Americans

>

>

 

and i heard once from somewhere that Chinese have, statistically,

somewhat longer small intestines.

 

can anyone colaborate, or debunk this?

 

anatomical variations no doubt have potential interactions with diet.

 

chris m

[Guest guest]

If ban xia is non-toxic why is it always listed as TOXIC?

http://tcm.health-info.org/Herbology.Materia.Medica/banxia-properties.htm

 

Don't poison your patients, have you tasted this herb personally? I

have it hurt my stomach...

 

Americans eat a lot of bad foods, but not as much stir fry cooked in

re-used peanut oil, in China it is common to vomit after a meal,

Americans don't do that as much, Chinese can't digest 10 shu di in a

decoction, most Americans have no problem with that...

 

http://tcm.health-info.org/Herbology.Materia.Medica/banxia-properties.htm

 

Chinese Medicine ,

<zrosenbe wrote:

>

> I also agree with you, Stephen. As I said before, ban xia's acridity

> is balanced by its slippery quality, which actually moistens the

> lungs. It doesn't need mai men dong to do so.

>

>

> On Sep 8, 2008, at 9:20 AM, stephen woodley wrote:

>

> > HI Jason and all

> >

> > Jason said:

> > That's why the mai dong is there in that formula to protect the lungs

> > from the ban xia

> >

> > Stephen:

> >

> > Hmmm

> > I can't agree with the statement that Mai Men Dong is in Mai Men Dong

> > Tang to counter Ban Xia. It is the emperor and directly deals with the

> > core problem. Classically, it was used in high doses.

> >

> > In Jing Gui Yao Lue, this formula is for " extreme counterflow qi and

> > throat discomfort… " while modern applications include nausea and

> > vomiting. Ban Xia downbears the qi and thus can help with the

> > counterflow and is a crucial element of the formula, perhaps second

> > only

> > to Mai Men Dong itself.

> >

> > Further, the signs and symptoms include coughing of frothy saliva,

> > wheezing (the sound of phlegm) and some sources include difficult to

> > expectorate phlegm. Ban Xia is a fantastic herb to break up these

> > pathological fluids and distribute them via it's acridity so that

> > righteous fluids can be engendered.

> >

> > One might argue that Ban Xia is actually present to help the deficient

> > patient to digest the big dose of greasy herbs in Mai Men Dong Tang,

> > rather than those herbs being present to protect the patient from Ban

> > Xia.

> >

> > Stephen Woodley LAc

> >

> > --

> > www.shanghanlunseminars.com

> >

> > --

> > http://www.fastmail.fm - I mean, what is it about a decent email

> > service?

> >

> >

> >

>

>

> Chair, Department of Herbal Medicine

> Pacific College of Oriental Medicine

> San Diego, Ca. 92122

 

[Guest guest]

jasonwcom wrote:

 

>If ban xia is non-toxic why is it always listed as TOXIC?

>

Did someone here yet make the distinction between 'ban xia' and 'so fa'

(sorry, i know it only by Canonese), which is the raw nuts, white

powdery. These. I hear, are distinctly toxic (alcoloid), but are very

useful substitute for 'ban xia', in smaller quantities, vs virulent

respiratory (respiratory).

 

'ban xia', we all know, is fried in ginger (and something else, honey?),

and, in dosage amounts (3-6gr) not really poisonous.

 

chris macid

[Guest guest]

wrote:

 

>>

>>

>Did someone here yet make the distinction between 'ban xia' and 'so fa'

>(sorry, i know it only by Canonese), which is the raw nuts, white

>powdery. These. I hear, are distinctly toxic (alcoloid), but are very

>useful substitute for 'ban xia', in smaller quantities, vs virulent

>

>

CORRECTION:

 

>INFECTION(respiratory).

>

>

>

CORRECTION (spelling my own name!)

 

>chris MACIE

>

>

 

bad hair day