Follow up questions on Gou Qi Zi juice-GoChi

[Guest guest]

Yehuda wrote:

Q. It would be helpful to conduct studies comparing the efficacy of juice

from fresh Gou Qi ZI berries as opposed to reconstituted juice from dried

berries.

 

A. There's nothing wrong with using the dried gou qi zi, as has been done

in China for thousands of years. But, as with any other fruit, we believe

that fresh is better than dried. I always use the example of grapes vs.

raisins. When we know that the reason that red grapes are healthy because of

the red pigment anthocyanin, how could one expect to get the same benefit

from raisins or from raisin juice?

********************************

 

Yehuda,

Thanks for relaying this info to the group.

I'm not convinced that the fresh puree that has been reconstituted, bottled,

shipped and sitting on a non-refrigerated shelf is going to have more

nutritional value than the dried fruit that can be eaten whole or decocted

immediately be a patient or practitioner.

There was a clinical study done to compare the " Antioxidant capacity and

phenolic content of grapes, sun-dried raisins, and golden raisins and their

effect on ex vivo serum antioxidant capacity. "

 

" The objectives of this study were to compare the antioxidant capacity and

phenolic content of green Thompson seedless grapes (the most common variety

of grapes consumed in the United States), sun-dried raisins, and golden

raisins (both produced from Thompson seedless grapes) and to observe the

effects of their consumption over 4 weeks in 15 healthy human males with a

cross-over design. The oxygen radical absorbance capacity (ORAC) (positive

statistical significance for grapes after 2 weeks and golden raisins after 3

weeks), serum oxidation (positive statistical significance for golden raisin

lag time after 4 weeks), total phenolics (no significant effects), and

C-reactive protein (no significant effects) were monitored. "

 

*The conclusions from the study were that, " Golden raisins had the highest

antioxidant capacity and phenolic content. " *

http://cat.inist.fr/?aModele=afficheN & cpsidt=19186324

 

So, more clinical research needs to be done to be convincing that the Go-chi

juice is more beneficial than the traditional dried berries, especially for

the price differential.

If raisins have similar or even higher antioxidant profiles than the fresh

grapes from which they were derived, why pay 10 times more for the same

stuff in a bottle? (Since these fresh gou qi zi vs dried gou qi zi studies

have not been published, how can we truly know other than make speculations,

as the Go-chi juice sales representative has done)

 

Also, since grape and pomegranate juice are added to the puree for the

Go-chi juice,

doesn't that skew the results for the studies, since it has been long

verified that grape and pomegranate juices are among the highest ORAC scored

foods? That doesn't give credence to " Go-chi " juice, but the power of

grape and pomegranate juices mixed with Gou qi zi (which has already been

validated by traditional use).

 

What if I chewed dried gou qi zi mixing it with my salivary enzymes, instead

of having a processing blade slice it and then have it take weeks to months

to get to my mouth?

 

Without this evidence, it would be difficult for me to sell the " Go-chi "

product instead of giving my patients a pound of Organic dried Gou qi zi.

 

Respectfully,

K.

[Guest guest]

Dear colleagues,

 

About two weeks ago, I wrote to you asking for your feedback  concerning Gou

Qi Zi juice sold as GoChi by Freelife.  I had a number of questions and doubts

about the product, and as I expressed, the concept of multi-level marketing I

find abhorrent.  I took your questions as well as my own, and presented them to

the Freelife's chief products officer.  Below are my questions and the answers

I received:

 

Q.It would be wise to have research done not by an employee of Freelife.  It

gives the impression of being jaded.

 

A. Like all peer-reviewed journals, the Journal of Alternative and Complementary

Medicine blinds their expert judges, so they had no idea that the study was

performed by the eminent Dr. Amagase and Dr. Nance. Regardless of who designs or

conducts a study, the fairness and honesty are guaranteed by randomizing,

double-blinding and placebo control. In our second and third studies, Dr.

Amagase was a corresponding author and did not conduct the study. We have other

unreleased studies that have been conducted around the world by members of our

independent Scientific Advisory Board.

 

 

Q.  To be really considered seriously  by the scientific community, studies

should certainly be for longer than two weeks and they should be conducted by

objective third parties who do not have a vested interest in their validation.

 

A. We respectfully disagree. For years, our customers had been telling us that

they were getting remarkable results from our product within two weeks or less.

Frankly, we didn’t believe them because there was nothing in the history of

Traditional to support this. But, then again, goji’s history

in TCM has been in the form of dried berries, and our product is the first ever

to be made from fresh berries, and therefore delivers far more of the goji

berry’s bioactive polysaccharides. And so, we decided to see if our customers

were really experiencing these reported benefits or if they were simply

experiencing a placebo effect. We designed and conducted a 14 day randomized,

double-blind, placebo controlled study and found that our customers were not

crazy after all. The peer review judges at the medical journal that accepted and

published our study had no problem with its 14 day duration, or that it was

conducted on FreeLife

employees.  Our second and third studies were conducted for 30 days each, and

on larger populations who had no knowledge of FreeLife or our products. Other

ongoing and planned studies are at 60 and 90 day duration.

 

Q. These studies are very important to me and I would like to know when they

will be published and authenticated.

 

A.   They are undergoing the peer review process at two separate journals,

which can take several month. We can’t disclose the names of the journals

because they have prohibited us from doing so, but we hope that both studies

will be accepted and published by the end of 2008.

 

 

Q.  It would be helpful to conduct studies comparing the efficacy of juice from

fresh Gou Qi ZI berries as opposed to reconstituted juice from dried berries.

 

A.  There’s nothing wrong with using the dried gou qi zi, as has been done in

China for thousands of years. But, as with any other fruit, we believe that

fresh is better than dried. I always use the example of grapes vs. raisins. When

we know that the reason that red grapes are healthy because of the red pigment

anthocyanin, how could one expect to get the same benefit from raisins or from

raisin juice?

 

 

Q.  Can you tell me precisely where the Gou Qi Zi berry that Freelife uses

comes from? 

 

 

A. From the Yellow River floodplains of Ningxia Hui province in north central

China. There are also some great berries grown in Xinjiang Uygur province in the

west, but our problem with using them is that we wouldn’t be able to get the

fresh berries transported to our juicing plant in Gansu province quickly enough

to prevent spoilage.

 

Q.  Why is the product called Himalayan Goji when it comes from Ningxia Hui

province in north central China, and Xinjiang Uygur in the Northwest.  These

are nowhere near the Himalayas?

 

A.  The Himalayan people were the originators of a comprehensive wellness-based

system of medicine, which predates TCM. They taught their system to the visiting

Chinese silk traders and scholars, who ultimately refined it. Several Lycium

species were used by the Himalayans, and according to legend, the Chinese

visitors took samples home with them and planted them in their own valleys in

northern and northwestern China. The name “Himalayan Goji Juice†was meant

only to honor the discoverers of the berry, but it was precisely because of

confusion that we named our new product “GoChiâ€.

 

 

Q.   I am confused about an apparent contradiction.  From what you represented

to me, and from what the brochure " The pursuit of perfection " states, the

berries used are freshly picked,  cold pressed  and packed in aseptic

containers  before they are shipped overseas (not reconstituted!)  Yet, in

the first study by Amagase and Nance it  states on page 404 under Materials

and Methods: " ...This test material is a liquid dietary supplement containing

reconstituted juice from fresh whole L. Barbarum fruit with 10% excipients by

volume. "   So which is it?

 

 

A.The berries are freshly picked in Ningxia Hui, and are then shipped to our

modern processing facility in nearby Gansu province. There, they are

cold-pressed, after which about 50% of the water is removed by cold (36 –

38ËšF), vacuum-assisted rotary thin-film evaporation. That gives us a

concentrated puree (of a consistency somewhat like thin tomato paste). We do

this because the harvesting season is only 3 months long (July – September),

and we must purchase and prepare enough goji puree to last the rest of the year

(with accommodations for anticipated growth). Removing the water makes it easier

to store the puree under refrigerated conditions in aseptically sterilized

totes. From a microbiological standpoint, removing the water also reduces water

activity, meaning that the puree is far less likely to harbor bacteria and other

microbes. Once we are ready for final processing, the puree is air-freighted to

our bottling plant in the U.S., where it is

reconstituted (meaning that the exact amount of water that was removed in Gansu

is now replenished), and then it is blended with a small (<10%) of grape and

pomegranate juice to ensure a uniform color (our berries are picked for their

polysaccharide content, not their color) and some natural goji berry flavor

(because once again, our berries have the highest LBP content and not always the

sweetest taste – the natural goji berry flavor ensures that every bottle will

taste the same). Lastly, the product is aseptically sterilized by a 4-second

heat treatment (actually a shvitz with live steam) that only coagulates

microbial proteins and does not harm the delicate LBP content. We proved this

during our process design and validation phase, and we test every batch to

ensure that our product is pristine and fully potent.

 

 

Q.  Would it not  be indicated to publish a research study comparing the

potency of fresh Gou Qi Zi juice as opposed to reconstituted juice (assuming

that Freelife Go Chi  juice is indeed fresh!).

 

A.  This is a very interesting idea, and if we had an unlimited research

budget, I would love to do a study comparing our product with those of our

competitors, all of whom are using dried berries. Unfortunately, there is a

limit to the size of Ray and Kevin’s wallet, but I can tell you this. We have

analyzed every competing product that we have found on the market, including

Goji 100, Goji Gold, Goji Splash and the rest, and we have not found one that

has even one-third of our LBP content. And we truly believe, as do most

researchers, that the power of goji lies in these amazing glycopeptides known as

Lycium barbarum polysaccharides (why Chinese researchers named them

polysaccharides is a mystery to me, especially when it’s the amino acids on

the glycopeptide surface – and their strong resemblance to microbial antigens

– that initiates and promotes immune response). We also believe that there is

significant LBP degradation in dried berries. Is

it enough to render them ineffective? No. The long history of use of gou qi zi

in TCM is testimony to its effectiveness, but we are seeing with our product is

quite remarkable. In China, people take gou qi zi over a lifetime to achieve

moderate improvement in disease resistance and health. But we’re seeing

dramatic short-term improvement, and perhaps that’s the biggest difference in

using fresh berries – more polysaccharide power.

 

 

Q.  Would you be able to share with me the comparative analysis of the other

Goji juice products?

 

A.   Sorry, but that information is highly confidential. Our philosophy is

that we would rather promote our product based on its clinically demonstrated

benefit rather than by slamming our competitors.

 

 

Q. Can you explain in detail how the 90 day money back guarantee works.  I

understand that if not satisfied than when 90 days worth of bottles are

returned, the amount paid for them will be refunded in full, correct?

   Well, first of all, I understand that this is based upon drinking 4 oz per

day, but how many bottles does that mean?  Also,  what if two or three family

members have been drinking the Go Chi juice, and none of them are satisfied, if

all three return their bottles  will they receive the same refund?

 

A.  FreeLife's no risk guarantee is just that:  If you are dissatisfied with

our product  for any reason,  return it within 90 days and receive a 100%

refund, even if the bottle is empty!   If you join FreeLife and you decide it

is not for you even after 90 days, just let Freelife know that you wish to

cancel. Freelife will “refund your money less a 10% handling fee for all

resalable product and sales aids you purchased within one year of your decision

to cancelâ€. 

 

 

Q.   What are the production costs that are involved, and why such an

enormous price per bottle.   Please show me how what is charged is not a

reflection of a price which is inflated to benefit those higher up in the

Multi-level marketing chain? 

 

A.   The cost of our product is far higher than any other, as we are the only

company that is using fresh berries and not dried. The logistics of transporting

and quickly processing our berries in rural northern China are daunting, and are

very costly. Also, we would ask that you consider the millions of dollars that

we are spending on clinical research and charitable works. When compared to

products such as Goji 100, we are competitively priced. We feel no reason to

compete with the low-grade goji products sold at deep discount in Wal-Mart and

other outlets. We truly believe that GoChi provides outstanding value for the

money, even at the full retail price. However, many of our Marketing Executives

receive rebates and bonuses that result in them paying little or nothing for

their product. Our compensation plan benefits everyone who chooses to pursue our

business opportunity, and it is by far the most generous pay plan in the

industry.

 

Q.  Would it not be prudent for Freelife to donate some of their profits back

to the Chinese Medical community, such as to the TCM medical schools, community

clinics, research facilities, etc.  The Chinese medical community is an

incredible potential ally, for sales referrals, and medical validation.  Yet,

 thus far, the community views GoChi with much scepticism and distrust.  As I

think I have indicated to you, if I believe in a product and receive

satisfactory answers to my question, I will promote it.  I can assure you that

the same is true industry wide,  but good will needs to be cultivated.

 Comments?

 

A.  We have donate generously from our profits to our worldwide GojiKids

foundation, and a good amount of money has been spent in the areas of Ningxia

Hui and Gansu provinces where our berries are grown and juiced. Perhaps some day

we will be able to expand our charitable efforts beyond children’s relief

efforts, but for now, this is where we are dedicating our dollars and our time.

 

Q.   It is customary for suppliers of medicinals, nutraceuticals, and other

health products to offer licensed practitioners professional discounts.  Why is

that not the policy of Freelife?

 

A.  The suppliers that you mention in the practitioner channel have a

completely different sales and marketing structure, and our plan is simply not

optimized to favor one class of customers at the expense of others. As stated

previously, we do offer many opportunities for product rebates, volume-driven

bonuses and substantial income. I’m just not the person to discuss them with

you, as it’s not my area of competence.

 

Q. I am concerned with the hyperbole that has accompanied some of the sales

people I have come in contact with.  Some of the claims and testimonials border

on health claims which contravene FDA regulations.  Please see this link to

the  letter from the

FDA. http://www.fda.gov/cder/warn/cyber/2006/CL226e.pdf How do you reconcile

this?

 

A.   I agree completely, and it bothers me tremendously that some of our

people are trying to market our product as some kind of miracle cure. This

letter was sent to a FreeLife distributor, not to FreeLife. We have a strict

policy against making illegal medical claims for our product, and we terminate

any distributor who fails to take down non-compliant websites or who distributes

non-compliant materials. This is why FreeLife has never received a warning

letter from FDA or a state Attorney-General. You will not find anything on a

FreeLife website – past, present, or future – that says anything about using

our products for the treatment or cure of any disease, and we strongly recommend

to our Marketing Executives that they speak only of the 19 clinically

demonstrated benefits of GoChi and avoid trying to promote this product as some

type of cure-all. We have no proof that it is effective against any disease or

condition, and we have no intention

of studying it in any of these areas. Why? Because, in the eyes of FDA, that

would re-classify our product as an unapproved new drug. It currently costs

about $600 million and 10 years to register a new drug in this country, and you

can’t sell drugs through Network Marketing, so can you see why we would never

go that route?  We do believe, though that GoChi is the best gou qi zi product

on the planet, and we are certain that it will be a valuable addition to the

armamentarium of any TCM practitioner. And, although I wish that I could teach

restraint to those who would have you believe that GoChi can grow new limbs, I

hope that you will forgive them and understand that their exuberance arises from

having seen remarkable changes in themselves and in those dear to them as a

result of using the product. But this is not how we promote our

product.   GoChi has been clinically demonstrated against placebo in a

published randomized, double-blind study to

significantly improve sleep, energy, mental sharpness, feelings of calm,

contentment, good health and happiness, to help relieve stress and to improve

regularity. Blood tests have shown dramatic increases in the body’s ability to

defend itself against toxic free radicals and to improve immune defenses.

Isn’t that enough?  If people’s medical conditions are improving while

taking GoChi, it’s because they are becoming more immunocompetent. The immune

system is G-d’s miracle, not the goji berry. GoChi is simply the humble

facilitator that restores balance to immunity. That is entirely consistent with

the use of gou qi zi in Traditional .

 

As many of you expressed, I too, harbor a natural scepticism towards products

that make spectacular claims.  But, in my opinion, the tough questions I

asked were answered  satisfactorily, and I will now recommend this product to

those patients who are liver yin and blood, and Kidney yin and jing

vacuitous. 

The product appears to have quality and the guarantee is reasonable.  If any of

you are interested in it feel free to write or call me.

 

 

Sincerely,

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Dear Kokko,

 

Studies do show that drying decreases anthocyanin content in fruit. 

See:(http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?artid=1082901

And again the problem I have with ORAC scoring is that it just measures in

vitro, not in vivo.  The amount of grape and pomegranate juice added to Go

Chi IMO is statistically insignificant (3%) and is added to enhance flavor. 

Of course, this could present a problem to someone hypersensitive

to pomegranates and/or grapes (I have two such patients!)

 

Your concerns, I think,  are one of the reasons that Freelife has conducted

other clinical studies, and I await the published results of the two

additional studies submitted to peer-review journals which should be out before

the end of the year which I referred to earlier: The immune study testing and

comparing the significant difference of three markers in vivo : lymphocytes,

IL-2 and IgG, and the antioxidant study testing and comparing, again, in vivo

levels of SOD, GSH-Px and MDA.

 

Concerning the cost, they claim that the costs involved in their production

are   " higher than any other, as we are the only company that is using fresh

berries and not dried. The logistics of transporting and quickly processing our

berries in rural northern China are daunting.... "   That doesn't seem

unreasonable to me, assuming that what they are claiming is true.   It is

also telling, I think,  that they are investing a significant amount of their

budget to research and development in order to support their claims

scientifically.  I think that this also is unique for companies hawking a

product.

 

Again, the two additional studies have been presented and will be published

shortly, apparently.  They say that other studies are forthcoming. 

 

As always, I appreciate your insightful questions  and desire to reinforce

scientific validation of our wonderful medicine.  

 

All the best,

 

 

Yehuda

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Yehuda,

Thanks for relaying this info to the group.

I'm not convinced that the fresh puree that has been reconstituted, bottled,

shipped and sitting on a non-refrigerated shelf is going to have more

nutritional value than the dried fruit that can be eaten whole or decocted

immediately be a patient or practitioner.

There was a clinical study done to compare the " Antioxidant capacity and

phenolic content of grapes, sun-dried raisins, and golden raisins and their

effect on ex vivo serum antioxidant capacity. "

 

" The objectives of this study were to compare the antioxidant capacity and

phenolic content of green Thompson seedless grapes (the most common variety

of grapes consumed in the United States), sun-dried raisins, and golden

raisins (both produced from Thompson seedless grapes) and to observe the

effects of their consumption over 4 weeks in 15 healthy human males with a

cross-over design. The oxygen radical absorbance capacity (ORAC) (positive

statistical significance for grapes after 2 weeks and golden raisins after 3

weeks), serum oxidation (positive statistical significance for golden raisin

lag time after 4 weeks), total phenolics (no significant effects), and

C-reactive protein (no significant effects) were monitored. "

 

*The conclusions from the study were that, " Golden raisins had the highest

antioxidant capacity and phenolic content. " *

http://cat.inist. fr/?aModele= afficheN & cpsidt=19186324

 

So, more clinical research needs to be done to be convincing that the Go-chi

juice is more beneficial than the traditional dried berries, especially for

the price differential.

If raisins have similar or even higher antioxidant profiles than the fresh

grapes from which they were derived, why pay 10 times more for the same

stuff in a bottle? (Since these fresh gou qi zi vs dried gou qi zi studies

have not been published, how can we truly know other than make speculations,

as the Go-chi juice sales representative has done)

 

Also, since grape and pomegranate juice are added to the puree for the

Go-chi juice,

doesn't that skew the results for the studies, since it has been long

verified that grape and pomegranate juices are among the highest ORAC scored

foods? That doesn't give credence to " Go-chi " juice, but the power of

grape and pomegranate juices mixed with Gou qi zi (which has already been

validated by traditional use).

 

What if I chewed dried gou qi zi mixing it with my salivary enzymes, instead

of having a processing blade slice it and then have it take weeks to months

to get to my mouth?

 

Without this evidence, it would be difficult for me to sell the " Go-chi "

product instead of giving my patients a pound of Organic dried Gou qi zi.

 

Respectfully,

K.

 

On Thu, Aug 21, 2008 at 4:34 AM, >wrote:

 

>

> Dear colleagues,

>

> About two weeks ago, I wrote to you asking for your feedback concerning

> Gou Qi Zi juice sold as GoChi by Freelife. I had a number of questions and

> doubts about the product, and as I expressed, the concept of multi-level

> marketing I find abhorrent. I took your questions as well as my own, and

> presented them to the Freelife's chief products officer. Below are my

> questions and the answers I received:

>

> Q.It would be wise to have research done not by an employee of Freelife.

> It gives the impression of being jaded.

>

> A. Like all peer-reviewed journals, the Journal of Alternative and

> Complementary Medicine blinds their expert judges, so they had no idea that

> the study was performed by the eminent Dr. Amagase and Dr. Nance. Regardless

> of who designs or conducts a study, the fairness and honesty are guaranteed

> by randomizing, double-blinding and placebo control. In our second and third

> studies, Dr. Amagase was a corresponding author and did not conduct the

> study. We have other unreleased studies that have been conducted around the

> world by members of our independent Scientific Advisory Board.

>

>

> Q. To be really considered seriously by the scientific community, studies

> should certainly be for longer than two weeks and they should be conducted

> by objective third parties who do not have a vested interest in their

> validation.

>

> A. We respectfully disagree. For years, our customers had been telling us

> that they were getting remarkable results from our product within two weeks

> or less. Frankly, we didn't believe them because there was nothing in the

> history of Traditional to support this. But, then again,

> goji's history in TCM has been in the form of dried berries, and our product

> is the first ever to be made from fresh berries, and therefore delivers far

> more of the goji berry's bioactive polysaccharides. And so, we decided to

> see if our customers were really experiencing these reported benefits or if

> they were simply experiencing a placebo effect. We designed and conducted a

> 14 day randomized, double-blind, placebo controlled study and found that our

> customers were not crazy after all. The peer review judges at the medical

> journal that accepted and published our study had no problem with its 14 day

> duration, or that it was conducted on FreeLife

> employees. Our second and third studies were conducted for 30 days each,

> and on larger populations who had no knowledge of FreeLife or our products.

> Other ongoing and planned studies are at 60 and 90 day duration.

>

> Q. These studies are very important to me and I would like to know when

> they will be published and authenticated.

>

> A. They are undergoing the peer review process at two separate journals,

> which can take several month. We can't disclose the names of the journals

> because they have prohibited us from doing so, but we hope that both studies

> will be accepted and published by the end of 2008.

>

>

> Q. It would be helpful to conduct studies comparing the efficacy of juice

> from fresh Gou Qi ZI berries as opposed to reconstituted juice from dried

> berries.

>

> A. There's nothing wrong with using the dried gou qi zi, as has been done

> in China for thousands of years. But, as with any other fruit, we believe

> that fresh is better than dried. I always use the example of grapes vs.

> raisins. When we know that the reason that red grapes are healthy because of

> the red pigment anthocyanin, how could one expect to get the same benefit

> from raisins or from raisin juice?

>

>

> Q. Can you tell me precisely where the Gou Qi Zi berry that Freelife uses

> comes from?

>

>

> A. From the Yellow River floodplains of Ningxia Hui province in north

> central China. There are also some great berries grown in Xinjiang Uygur

> province in the west, but our problem with using them is that we wouldn't be

> able to get the fresh berries transported to our juicing plant in Gansu

> province quickly enough to prevent spoilage.

>

> Q. Why is the product called Himalayan Goji when it comes from Ningxia Hui

> province in north central China, and Xinjiang Uygur in the Northwest. These

> are nowhere near the Himalayas?

>

> A. The Himalayan people were the originators of a comprehensive

> wellness-based system of medicine, which predates TCM. They taught their

> system to the visiting Chinese silk traders and scholars, who ultimately

> refined it. Several Lycium species were used by the Himalayans, and

> according to legend, the Chinese visitors took samples home with them and

> planted them in their own valleys in northern and northwestern China. The

> name " Himalayan Goji Juice " was meant only to honor the discoverers of the

> berry, but it was precisely because of confusion that we named our new

> product " GoChi " .

>

>

> Q. I am confused about an apparent contradiction. From what you

> represented to me, and from what the brochure " The pursuit of perfection "

> states, the berries used are freshly picked, cold pressed and packed in

> aseptic containers before they are shipped overseas (not reconstituted! )

> Yet, in the first study by Amagase and Nance it states on page 404 under

> Materials and Methods: " ...This test material is a liquid dietary supplement

> containing reconstituted juice from fresh whole L. Barbarum fruit with 10%

> excipients by volume. " So which is it?

>

>

> A.The berries are freshly picked in Ningxia Hui, and are then shipped to

> our modern processing facility in nearby Gansu province. There, they are

> cold-pressed, after which about 50% of the water is removed by cold (36 –

> 38ËšF), vacuum-assisted rotary thin-film evaporation. That gives us a

> concentrated puree (of a consistency somewhat like thin tomato paste). We do

> this because the harvesting season is only 3 months long (July – September),

> and we must purchase and prepare enough goji puree to last the rest of the

> year (with accommodations for anticipated growth). Removing the water makes

> it easier to store the puree under refrigerated conditions in aseptically

> sterilized totes. From a microbiological standpoint, removing the water also

> reduces water activity, meaning that the puree is far less likely to harbor

> bacteria and other microbes. Once we are ready for final processing, the

> puree is air-freighted to our bottling plant in the U.S., where it is

> reconstituted (meaning that the exact amount of water that was removed in

> Gansu is now replenished) , and then it is blended with a small (<10%) of

> grape and pomegranate juice to ensure a uniform color (our berries are

> picked for their polysaccharide content, not their color) and some natural

> goji berry flavor (because once again, our berries have the highest LBP

> content and not always the sweetest taste – the natural goji berry flavor

> ensures that every bottle will taste the same). Lastly, the product is

> aseptically sterilized by a 4-second heat treatment (actually a shvitz with

> live steam) that only coagulates microbial proteins and does not harm the

> delicate LBP content. We proved this during our process design and

> validation phase, and we test every batch to ensure that our product is

> pristine and fully potent.

>

>

> Q. Would it not be indicated to publish a research study comparing the

> potency of fresh Gou Qi Zi juice as opposed to reconstituted juice (assuming

> that Freelife Go Chi juice is indeed fresh!).

>

> A. This is a very interesting idea, and if we had an unlimited research

> budget, I would love to do a study comparing our product with those of our

> competitors, all of whom are using dried berries. Unfortunately, there is a

> limit to the size of Ray and Kevin's wallet, but I can tell you this. We

> have analyzed every competing product that we have found on the market,

> including Goji 100, Goji Gold, Goji Splash and the rest, and we have not

> found one that has even one-third of our LBP content. And we truly believe,

> as do most researchers, that the power of goji lies in these amazing

> glycopeptides known as Lycium barbarum polysaccharides (why Chinese

> researchers named them polysaccharides is a mystery to me, especially when

> it's the amino acids on the glycopeptide surface – and their strong

> resemblance to microbial antigens – that initiates and promotes immune

> response). We also believe that there is significant LBP degradation in

> dried berries. Is

> it enough to render them ineffective? No. The long history of use of gou qi

> zi in TCM is testimony to its effectiveness, but we are seeing with our

> product is quite remarkable. In China, people take gou qi zi over a lifetime

> to achieve moderate improvement in disease resistance and health. But we're

> seeing dramatic short-term improvement, and perhaps that's the biggest

> difference in using fresh berries – more polysaccharide power.

>

>

> Q. Would you be able to share with me the comparative analysis of the

> other Goji juice products?

>

> A. Sorry, but that information is highly confidential. Our philosophy is

> that we would rather promote our product based on its clinically

> demonstrated benefit rather than by slamming our competitors.

>

>

> Q. Can you explain in detail how the 90 day money back guarantee works. I

> understand that if not satisfied than when 90 days worth of bottles are

> returned, the amount paid for them will be refunded in full, correct?

> Well, first of all, I understand that this is based upon drinking 4 oz

> per day, but how many bottles does that mean? Also, what if two or three

> family members have been drinking the Go Chi juice, and none of them are

> satisfied, if all three return their bottles will they receive the same

> refund?

>

> A. FreeLife's no risk guarantee is just that: If you are dissatisfied

> with our product for any reason, return it within 90 days and receive a

> 100% refund, even if the bottle is empty! If you join FreeLife and you

> decide it is not for you even after 90 days, just let Freelife know that you

> wish to cancel. Freelife will " refund your money less a 10% handling fee for

> all resalable product and sales aids you purchased within one year of your

> decision to cancel " .

>

>

> Q. What are the production costs that are involved, and why such an

> enormous price per bottle. Please show me how what is charged is not a

> reflection of a price which is inflated to benefit those higher up in the

> Multi-level marketing chain?

>

> A. The cost of our product is far higher than any other, as we are the

> only company that is using fresh berries and not dried. The logistics of

> transporting and quickly processing our berries in rural northern China are

> daunting, and are very costly. Also, we would ask that you consider the

> millions of dollars that we are spending on clinical research and charitable

> works. When compared to products such as Goji 100, we are competitively

> priced. We feel no reason to compete with the low-grade goji products sold

> at deep discount in Wal-Mart and other outlets. We truly believe that GoChi

> provides outstanding value for the money, even at the full retail price.

> However, many of our Marketing Executives receive rebates and bonuses that

> result in them paying little or nothing for their product. Our compensation

> plan benefits everyone who chooses to pursue our business opportunity, and

> it is by far the most generous pay plan in the industry.

>

> Q. Would it not be prudent for Freelife to donate some of their profits

> back to the Chinese Medical community, such as to the TCM medical schools,

> community clinics, research facilities, etc. The Chinese medical community

> is an incredible potential ally, for sales referrals, and medical

> validation. Yet, thus far, the community views GoChi with much scepticism

> and distrust. As I think I have indicated to you, if I believe in a product

> and receive satisfactory answers to my question, I will promote it. I can

> assure you that the same is true industry wide, but good will needs to be

> cultivated. Comments?

>

> A. We have donate generously from our profits to our worldwide GojiKids

> foundation, and a good amount of money has been spent in the areas of

> Ningxia Hui and Gansu provinces where our berries are grown and juiced.

> Perhaps some day we will be able to expand our charitable efforts beyond

> children's relief efforts, but for now, this is where we are dedicating our

> dollars and our time.

>

> Q. It is customary for suppliers of medicinals, nutraceuticals, and other

> health products to offer licensed practitioners professional discounts. Why

> is that not the policy of Freelife?

>

> A. The suppliers that you mention in the practitioner channel have a

> completely different sales and marketing structure, and our plan is simply

> not optimized to favor one class of customers at the expense of others. As

> stated previously, we do offer many opportunities for product rebates,

> volume-driven bonuses and substantial income. I'm just not the person to

> discuss them with you, as it's not my area of competence.

>

> Q. I am concerned with the hyperbole that has accompanied some of the sales

> people I have come in contact with. Some of the claims and testimonials

> border on health claims which contravene FDA regulations. Please see this

> link to the letter from the FDA.

> http://www.fda. gov/cder/ warn/cyber/ 2006/CL226e. pdf How do you reconcile

> this?

>

> A. I agree completely, and it bothers me tremendously that some of our

> people are trying to market our product as some kind of miracle cure. This

> letter was sent to a FreeLife distributor, not to FreeLife. We have a strict

> policy against making illegal medical claims for our product, and we

> terminate any distributor who fails to take down non-compliant websites or

> who distributes non-compliant materials. This is why FreeLife has never

> received a warning letter from FDA or a state Attorney-General. You will not

> find anything on a FreeLife website – past, present, or future – that says

> anything about using our products for the treatment or cure of any disease,

> and we strongly recommend to our Marketing Executives that they speak only

> of the 19 clinically demonstrated benefits of GoChi and avoid trying to

> promote this product as some type of cure-all. We have no proof that it is

> effective against any disease or condition, and we have no intention

> of studying it in any of these areas. Why? Because, in the eyes of FDA,

> that would re-classify our product as an unapproved new drug. It currently

> costs about $600 million and 10 years to register a new drug in this

> country, and you can't sell drugs through Network Marketing, so can you see

> why we would never go that route? We do believe, though that GoChi is the

> best gou qi zi product on the planet, and we are certain that it will be a

> valuable addition to the armamentarium of any TCM practitioner. And,

> although I wish that I could teach restraint to those who would have you

> believe that GoChi can grow new limbs, I hope that you will forgive them and

> understand that their exuberance arises from having seen remarkable changes

> in themselves and in those dear to them as a result of using the

> product. But this is not how we promote our product. GoChi has been

> clinically demonstrated against placebo in a published randomized,

> double-blind study to

> significantly improve sleep, energy, mental sharpness, feelings of calm,

> contentment, good health and happiness, to help relieve stress and to

> improve regularity. Blood tests have shown dramatic increases in the body's

> ability to defend itself against toxic free radicals and to improve immune

> defenses. Isn't that enough? If people's medical conditions are improving

> while taking GoChi, it's because they are becoming more immunocompetent. The

> immune system is G-d's miracle, not the goji berry. GoChi is simply the

> humble facilitator that restores balance to immunity. That is entirely

> consistent with the use of gou qi zi in Traditional .

>

> As many of you expressed, I too, harbor a natural scepticism towards

> products that make spectacular claims. But, in my opinion, the tough

> questions I asked were answered satisfactorily, and I will now recommend

> this product to those patients who are liver yin and blood, and Kidney yin

> and jing vacuitous.

> The product appears to have quality and the guarantee is reasonable. If

> any of you are interested in it feel free to write or call me.

>

>

> Sincerely,

>

>

>

> www.traditionaljewi shmedicine. net

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Yehuda wrote:

Q. It would be helpful to conduct studies comparing the efficacy of juice

from fresh Gou Qi ZI berries as opposed to reconstituted juice from dried

berries.

 

A. There's nothing wrong with using the dried gou qi zi, as has been done

in China for thousands of years. But, as with any other fruit, we believe

that fresh is better than dried. I always use the example of grapes vs.

raisins. When we know that the reason that red grapes are healthy because of

the red pigment anthocyanin, how could one expect to get the same benefit

from raisins or from raisin juice?

********************************

 

Yehuda,

Thanks for relaying this info to the group.

I'm not convinced that the fresh puree that has been reconstituted, bottled,

shipped and sitting on a non-refrigerated shelf is going to have more

nutritional value than the dried fruit that can be eaten whole or decocted

immediately be a patient or practitioner.

There was a clinical study done to compare the " Antioxidant capacity and

phenolic content of grapes, sun-dried raisins, and golden raisins and their

effect on ex vivo serum antioxidant capacity. "

 

" The objectives of this study were to compare the antioxidant capacity and

phenolic content of green Thompson seedless grapes (the most common variety

of grapes consumed in the United States), sun-dried raisins, and golden

raisins (both produced from Thompson seedless grapes) and to observe the

effects of their consumption over 4 weeks in 15 healthy human males with a

cross-over design. The oxygen radical absorbance capacity (ORAC) (positive

statistical significance for grapes after 2 weeks and golden raisins after 3

weeks), serum oxidation (positive statistical significance for golden raisin

lag time after 4 weeks), total phenolics (no significant effects), and

C-reactive protein (no significant effects) were monitored. "

 

*The conclusions from the study were that, " Golden raisins had the highest

antioxidant capacity and phenolic content. " *

http://cat.inist.fr/?aModele=afficheN & cpsidt=19186324

 

So, more clinical research needs to be done to be convincing that the Go-chi

juice is more beneficial than the traditional dried berries, especially for

the price differential.

If raisins have similar or even higher antioxidant profiles than the fresh

grapes from which they were derived, why pay 10 times more for the same

stuff in a bottle? (Since these fresh gou qi zi vs dried gou qi zi studies

have not been published, how can we truly know other than make speculations,

as the Go-chi juice sales representative has done)

 

Also, since grape and pomegranate juice are added to the puree for the

Go-chi juice,

doesn't that skew the results for the studies, since it has been long

verified that grape and pomegranate juices are among the highest ORAC scored

foods? That doesn't give credence to " Go-chi " juice, but the power of

grape and pomegranate juices mixed with Gou qi zi (which has already been

validated by traditional use).

 

What if I chewed dried gou qi zi mixing it with my salivary enzymes, instead

of having a processing blade slice it and then have it take weeks to months

to get to my mouth?

 

Without this evidence, it would be difficult for me to sell the " Go-chi "

product instead of giving my patients a pound of Organic dried Gou qi zi.

 

Respectfully,

K.

 

 

 

On Thu, Aug 21, 2008 at 4:34 AM, wrote:

 

>

> Dear colleagues,

>

> About two weeks ago, I wrote to you asking for your feedback concerning

> Gou Qi Zi juice sold as GoChi by Freelife. I had a number of questions and

> doubts about the product, and as I expressed, the concept of multi-level

> marketing I find abhorrent. I took your questions as well as my own, and

> presented them to the Freelife's chief products officer. Below are my

> questions and the answers I received:

>

> Q.It would be wise to have research done not by an employee of Freelife.

> It gives the impression of being jaded.

>

> A. Like all peer-reviewed journals, the Journal of Alternative and

> Complementary Medicine blinds their expert judges, so they had no idea that

> the study was performed by the eminent Dr. Amagase and Dr. Nance. Regardless

> of who designs or conducts a study, the fairness and honesty are guaranteed

> by randomizing, double-blinding and placebo control. In our second and third

> studies, Dr. Amagase was a corresponding author and did not conduct the

> study. We have other unreleased studies that have been conducted around the

> world by members of our independent Scientific Advisory Board.

>

>

> Q. To be really considered seriously by the scientific community, studies

> should certainly be for longer than two weeks and they should be conducted

> by objective third parties who do not have a vested interest in their

> validation.

>

> A. We respectfully disagree. For years, our customers had been telling us

> that they were getting remarkable results from our product within two weeks

> or less. Frankly, we didn't believe them because there was nothing in the

> history of Traditional to support this. But, then again,

> goji's history in TCM has been in the form of dried berries, and our product

> is the first ever to be made from fresh berries, and therefore delivers far

> more of the goji berry's bioactive polysaccharides. And so, we decided to

> see if our customers were really experiencing these reported benefits or if

> they were simply experiencing a placebo effect. We designed and conducted a

> 14 day randomized, double-blind, placebo controlled study and found that our

> customers were not crazy after all. The peer review judges at the medical

> journal that accepted and published our study had no problem with its 14 day

> duration, or that it was conducted on FreeLife

> employees. Our second and third studies were conducted for 30 days each,

> and on larger populations who had no knowledge of FreeLife or our products.

> Other ongoing and planned studies are at 60 and 90 day duration.

>

> Q. These studies are very important to me and I would like to know when

> they will be published and authenticated.

>

> A. They are undergoing the peer review process at two separate journals,

> which can take several month. We can't disclose the names of the journals

> because they have prohibited us from doing so, but we hope that both studies

> will be accepted and published by the end of 2008.

>

>

> Q. It would be helpful to conduct studies comparing the efficacy of juice

> from fresh Gou Qi ZI berries as opposed to reconstituted juice from dried

> berries.

>

> A. There's nothing wrong with using the dried gou qi zi, as has been done

> in China for thousands of years. But, as with any other fruit, we believe

> that fresh is better than dried. I always use the example of grapes vs.

> raisins. When we know that the reason that red grapes are healthy because of

> the red pigment anthocyanin, how could one expect to get the same benefit

> from raisins or from raisin juice?

>

>

> Q. Can you tell me precisely where the Gou Qi Zi berry that Freelife uses

> comes from?

>

>

> A. From the Yellow River floodplains of Ningxia Hui province in north

> central China. There are also some great berries grown in Xinjiang Uygur

> province in the west, but our problem with using them is that we wouldn't be

> able to get the fresh berries transported to our juicing plant in Gansu

> province quickly enough to prevent spoilage.

>

> Q. Why is the product called Himalayan Goji when it comes from Ningxia Hui

> province in north central China, and Xinjiang Uygur in the Northwest. These

> are nowhere near the Himalayas?

>

> A. The Himalayan people were the originators of a comprehensive

> wellness-based system of medicine, which predates TCM. They taught their

> system to the visiting Chinese silk traders and scholars, who ultimately

> refined it. Several Lycium species were used by the Himalayans, and

> according to legend, the Chinese visitors took samples home with them and

> planted them in their own valleys in northern and northwestern China. The

> name " Himalayan Goji Juice " was meant only to honor the discoverers of the

> berry, but it was precisely because of confusion that we named our new

> product " GoChi " .

>

>

> Q. I am confused about an apparent contradiction. From what you

> represented to me, and from what the brochure " The pursuit of perfection "

> states, the berries used are freshly picked, cold pressed and packed in

> aseptic containers before they are shipped overseas (not reconstituted!)

> Yet, in the first study by Amagase and Nance it states on page 404 under

> Materials and Methods: " ...This test material is a liquid dietary supplement

> containing reconstituted juice from fresh whole L. Barbarum fruit with 10%

> excipients by volume. " So which is it?

>

>

> A.The berries are freshly picked in Ningxia Hui, and are then shipped to

> our modern processing facility in nearby Gansu province. There, they are

> cold-pressed, after which about 50% of the water is removed by cold (36 –

> 38ËšF), vacuum-assisted rotary thin-film evaporation. That gives us a

> concentrated puree (of a consistency somewhat like thin tomato paste). We do

> this because the harvesting season is only 3 months long (July – September),

> and we must purchase and prepare enough goji puree to last the rest of the

> year (with accommodations for anticipated growth). Removing the water makes

> it easier to store the puree under refrigerated conditions in aseptically

> sterilized totes. From a microbiological standpoint, removing the water also

> reduces water activity, meaning that the puree is far less likely to harbor

> bacteria and other microbes. Once we are ready for final processing, the

> puree is air-freighted to our bottling plant in the U.S., where it is

> reconstituted (meaning that the exact amount of water that was removed in

> Gansu is now replenished), and then it is blended with a small (<10%) of

> grape and pomegranate juice to ensure a uniform color (our berries are

> picked for their polysaccharide content, not their color) and some natural

> goji berry flavor (because once again, our berries have the highest LBP

> content and not always the sweetest taste – the natural goji berry flavor

> ensures that every bottle will taste the same). Lastly, the product is

> aseptically sterilized by a 4-second heat treatment (actually a shvitz with

> live steam) that only coagulates microbial proteins and does not harm the

> delicate LBP content. We proved this during our process design and

> validation phase, and we test every batch to ensure that our product is

> pristine and fully potent.

>

>

> Q. Would it not be indicated to publish a research study comparing the

> potency of fresh Gou Qi Zi juice as opposed to reconstituted juice (assuming

> that Freelife Go Chi juice is indeed fresh!).

>

> A. This is a very interesting idea, and if we had an unlimited research

> budget, I would love to do a study comparing our product with those of our

> competitors, all of whom are using dried berries. Unfortunately, there is a

> limit to the size of Ray and Kevin's wallet, but I can tell you this. We

> have analyzed every competing product that we have found on the market,

> including Goji 100, Goji Gold, Goji Splash and the rest, and we have not

> found one that has even one-third of our LBP content. And we truly believe,

> as do most researchers, that the power of goji lies in these amazing

> glycopeptides known as Lycium barbarum polysaccharides (why Chinese

> researchers named them polysaccharides is a mystery to me, especially when

> it's the amino acids on the glycopeptide surface – and their strong

> resemblance to microbial antigens – that initiates and promotes immune

> response). We also believe that there is significant LBP degradation in

> dried berries. Is

> it enough to render them ineffective? No. The long history of use of gou qi

> zi in TCM is testimony to its effectiveness, but we are seeing with our

> product is quite remarkable. In China, people take gou qi zi over a lifetime

> to achieve moderate improvement in disease resistance and health. But we're

> seeing dramatic short-term improvement, and perhaps that's the biggest

> difference in using fresh berries – more polysaccharide power.

>

>

> Q. Would you be able to share with me the comparative analysis of the

> other Goji juice products?

>

> A. Sorry, but that information is highly confidential. Our philosophy is

> that we would rather promote our product based on its clinically

> demonstrated benefit rather than by slamming our competitors.

>

>

> Q. Can you explain in detail how the 90 day money back guarantee works. I

> understand that if not satisfied than when 90 days worth of bottles are

> returned, the amount paid for them will be refunded in full, correct?

> Well, first of all, I understand that this is based upon drinking 4 oz

> per day, but how many bottles does that mean? Also, what if two or three

> family members have been drinking the Go Chi juice, and none of them are

> satisfied, if all three return their bottles will they receive the same

> refund?

>

> A. FreeLife's no risk guarantee is just that: If you are dissatisfied

> with our product for any reason, return it within 90 days and receive a

> 100% refund, even if the bottle is empty! If you join FreeLife and you

> decide it is not for you even after 90 days, just let Freelife know that you

> wish to cancel. Freelife will " refund your money less a 10% handling fee for

> all resalable product and sales aids you purchased within one year of your

> decision to cancel " .

>

>

> Q. What are the production costs that are involved, and why such an

> enormous price per bottle. Please show me how what is charged is not a

> reflection of a price which is inflated to benefit those higher up in the

> Multi-level marketing chain?

>

> A. The cost of our product is far higher than any other, as we are the

> only company that is using fresh berries and not dried. The logistics of

> transporting and quickly processing our berries in rural northern China are

> daunting, and are very costly. Also, we would ask that you consider the

> millions of dollars that we are spending on clinical research and charitable

> works. When compared to products such as Goji 100, we are competitively

> priced. We feel no reason to compete with the low-grade goji products sold

> at deep discount in Wal-Mart and other outlets. We truly believe that GoChi

> provides outstanding value for the money, even at the full retail price.

> However, many of our Marketing Executives receive rebates and bonuses that

> result in them paying little or nothing for their product. Our compensation

> plan benefits everyone who chooses to pursue our business opportunity, and

> it is by far the most generous pay plan in the industry.

>

> Q. Would it not be prudent for Freelife to donate some of their profits

> back to the Chinese Medical community, such as to the TCM medical schools,

> community clinics, research facilities, etc. The Chinese medical community

> is an incredible potential ally, for sales referrals, and medical

> validation. Yet, thus far, the community views GoChi with much scepticism

> and distrust. As I think I have indicated to you, if I believe in a product

> and receive satisfactory answers to my question, I will promote it. I can

> assure you that the same is true industry wide, but good will needs to be

> cultivated. Comments?

>

> A. We have donate generously from our profits to our worldwide GojiKids

> foundation, and a good amount of money has been spent in the areas of

> Ningxia Hui and Gansu provinces where our berries are grown and juiced.

> Perhaps some day we will be able to expand our charitable efforts beyond

> children's relief efforts, but for now, this is where we are dedicating our

> dollars and our time.

>

> Q. It is customary for suppliers of medicinals, nutraceuticals, and other

> health products to offer licensed practitioners professional discounts. Why

> is that not the policy of Freelife?

>

> A. The suppliers that you mention in the practitioner channel have a

> completely different sales and marketing structure, and our plan is simply

> not optimized to favor one class of customers at the expense of others. As

> stated previously, we do offer many opportunities for product rebates,

> volume-driven bonuses and substantial income. I'm just not the person to

> discuss them with you, as it's not my area of competence.

>

> Q. I am concerned with the hyperbole that has accompanied some of the sales

> people I have come in contact with. Some of the claims and testimonials

> border on health claims which contravene FDA regulations. Please see this

> link to the letter from the FDA.

> http://www.fda.gov/cder/warn/cyber/2006/CL226e.pdf How do you reconcile

> this?

>

> A. I agree completely, and it bothers me tremendously that some of our

> people are trying to market our product as some kind of miracle cure. This

> letter was sent to a FreeLife distributor, not to FreeLife. We have a strict

> policy against making illegal medical claims for our product, and we

> terminate any distributor who fails to take down non-compliant websites or

> who distributes non-compliant materials. This is why FreeLife has never

> received a warning letter from FDA or a state Attorney-General. You will not

> find anything on a FreeLife website – past, present, or future – that says

> anything about using our products for the treatment or cure of any disease,

> and we strongly recommend to our Marketing Executives that they speak only

> of the 19 clinically demonstrated benefits of GoChi and avoid trying to

> promote this product as some type of cure-all. We have no proof that it is

> effective against any disease or condition, and we have no intention

> of studying it in any of these areas. Why? Because, in the eyes of FDA,

> that would re-classify our product as an unapproved new drug. It currently

> costs about $600 million and 10 years to register a new drug in this

> country, and you can't sell drugs through Network Marketing, so can you see

> why we would never go that route? We do believe, though that GoChi is the

> best gou qi zi product on the planet, and we are certain that it will be a

> valuable addition to the armamentarium of any TCM practitioner. And,

> although I wish that I could teach restraint to those who would have you

> believe that GoChi can grow new limbs, I hope that you will forgive them and

> understand that their exuberance arises from having seen remarkable changes

> in themselves and in those dear to them as a result of using the

> product. But this is not how we promote our product. GoChi has been

> clinically demonstrated against placebo in a published randomized,

> double-blind study to

> significantly improve sleep, energy, mental sharpness, feelings of calm,

> contentment, good health and happiness, to help relieve stress and to

> improve regularity. Blood tests have shown dramatic increases in the body's

> ability to defend itself against toxic free radicals and to improve immune

> defenses. Isn't that enough? If people's medical conditions are improving

> while taking GoChi, it's because they are becoming more immunocompetent. The

> immune system is G-d's miracle, not the goji berry. GoChi is simply the

> humble facilitator that restores balance to immunity. That is entirely

> consistent with the use of gou qi zi in Traditional .

>

> As many of you expressed, I too, harbor a natural scepticism towards

> products that make spectacular claims. But, in my opinion, the tough

> questions I asked were answered satisfactorily, and I will now recommend

> this product to those patients who are liver yin and blood, and Kidney yin

> and jing vacuitous.

> The product appears to have quality and the guarantee is reasonable. If

> any of you are interested in it feel free to write or call me.

>

>

> Sincerely,

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

, yehuda frischman

< wrote:

 

> ...We have other unreleased studies that have been conducted around

the world by members of our independent Scientific Advisory Board.

 

Did he really write that (our..independent)? Hmm. I have a personal

independent non-biased opinion also.

 

Geoff

[Guest guest]

Dear Kokko,

 

Studies do show that drying decreases anthocyanin content in fruit. 

See:(http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?artid=1082901

And again the problem I have with ORAC scoring is that it just measures in

vitro, not in vivo.  The amount of grape and pomegranate juice added to Go

Chi IMO is statistically insignificant (3%) and is added to enhance flavor. 

Of course, this could present a problem to someone hypersensitive

to pomegranates and/or grapes (I have two such patients!)

 

Your concerns, I think,  are one of the reasons that Freelife has conducted

other clinical studies, and I await the published results of the two

additional studies submitted to peer-review journals which should be out before

the end of the year which I referred to earlier: The immune study testing and

comparing the significant difference of three markers in vivo : lymphocytes,

IL-2 and IgG, and the antioxidant study testing and comparing, again, in vivo

levels of SOD, GSH-Px and MDA.

 

Concerning the cost, they claim that the costs involved in their production

are   " higher than any other, as we are the only company that is using fresh

berries and not dried. The logistics of transporting and quickly processing our

berries in rural northern China are daunting.... "   That doesn't seem

unreasonable to me, assuming that what they are claiming is true.   It is

also telling, I think,  that they are investing a significant amount of their

budget to research and development in order to support their claims

scientifically.  I think that this also is unique for companies hawking a

product.

 

Again, the two additional studies have been presented and will be published

shortly, apparently.  They say that other studies are forthcoming. 

 

As always, I appreciate your insightful questions  and desire to reinforce

scientific validation of our wonderful medicine.  

 

All the best,

 

 

Yehuda

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Yehuda,

Thanks for relaying this info to the group.

I'm not convinced that the fresh puree that has been reconstituted, bottled,

shipped and sitting on a non-refrigerated shelf is going to have more

nutritional value than the dried fruit that can be eaten whole or decocted

immediately be a patient or practitioner.

There was a clinical study done to compare the " Antioxidant capacity and

phenolic content of grapes, sun-dried raisins, and golden raisins and their

effect on ex vivo serum antioxidant capacity. "

 

" The objectives of this study were to compare the antioxidant capacity and

phenolic content of green Thompson seedless grapes (the most common variety

of grapes consumed in the United States), sun-dried raisins, and golden

raisins (both produced from Thompson seedless grapes) and to observe the

effects of their consumption over 4 weeks in 15 healthy human males with a

cross-over design. The oxygen radical absorbance capacity (ORAC) (positive

statistical significance for grapes after 2 weeks and golden raisins after 3

weeks), serum oxidation (positive statistical significance for golden raisin

lag time after 4 weeks), total phenolics (no significant effects), and

C-reactive protein (no significant effects) were monitored. "

 

*The conclusions from the study were that, " Golden raisins had the highest

antioxidant capacity and phenolic content. " *

http://cat.inist. fr/?aModele= afficheN & cpsidt=19186324

 

So, more clinical research needs to be done to be convincing that the Go-chi

juice is more beneficial than the traditional dried berries, especially for

the price differential.

If raisins have similar or even higher antioxidant profiles than the fresh

grapes from which they were derived, why pay 10 times more for the same

stuff in a bottle? (Since these fresh gou qi zi vs dried gou qi zi studies

have not been published, how can we truly know other than make speculations,

as the Go-chi juice sales representative has done)

 

Also, since grape and pomegranate juice are added to the puree for the

Go-chi juice,

doesn't that skew the results for the studies, since it has been long

verified that grape and pomegranate juices are among the highest ORAC scored

foods? That doesn't give credence to " Go-chi " juice, but the power of

grape and pomegranate juices mixed with Gou qi zi (which has already been

validated by traditional use).

 

What if I chewed dried gou qi zi mixing it with my salivary enzymes, instead

of having a processing blade slice it and then have it take weeks to months

to get to my mouth?

 

Without this evidence, it would be difficult for me to sell the " Go-chi "

product instead of giving my patients a pound of Organic dried Gou qi zi.

 

Respectfully,

K.

 

On Thu, Aug 21, 2008 at 4:34 AM, >wrote:

 

>

> Dear colleagues,

>

> About two weeks ago, I wrote to you asking for your feedback concerning

> Gou Qi Zi juice sold as GoChi by Freelife. I had a number of questions and

> doubts about the product, and as I expressed, the concept of multi-level

> marketing I find abhorrent. I took your questions as well as my own, and

> presented them to the Freelife's chief products officer. Below are my

> questions and the answers I received:

>

> Q.It would be wise to have research done not by an employee of Freelife.

> It gives the impression of being jaded.

>

> A. Like all peer-reviewed journals, the Journal of Alternative and

> Complementary Medicine blinds their expert judges, so they had no idea that

> the study was performed by the eminent Dr. Amagase and Dr. Nance. Regardless

> of who designs or conducts a study, the fairness and honesty are guaranteed

> by randomizing, double-blinding and placebo control. In our second and third

> studies, Dr. Amagase was a corresponding author and did not conduct the

> study. We have other unreleased studies that have been conducted around the

> world by members of our independent Scientific Advisory Board.

>

>

> Q. To be really considered seriously by the scientific community, studies

> should certainly be for longer than two weeks and they should be conducted

> by objective third parties who do not have a vested interest in their

> validation.

>

> A. We respectfully disagree. For years, our customers had been telling us

> that they were getting remarkable results from our product within two weeks

> or less. Frankly, we didn't believe them because there was nothing in the

> history of Traditional to support this. But, then again,

> goji's history in TCM has been in the form of dried berries, and our product

> is the first ever to be made from fresh berries, and therefore delivers far

> more of the goji berry's bioactive polysaccharides. And so, we decided to

> see if our customers were really experiencing these reported benefits or if

> they were simply experiencing a placebo effect. We designed and conducted a

> 14 day randomized, double-blind, placebo controlled study and found that our

> customers were not crazy after all. The peer review judges at the medical

> journal that accepted and published our study had no problem with its 14 day

> duration, or that it was conducted on FreeLife

> employees. Our second and third studies were conducted for 30 days each,

> and on larger populations who had no knowledge of FreeLife or our products.

> Other ongoing and planned studies are at 60 and 90 day duration.

>

> Q. These studies are very important to me and I would like to know when

> they will be published and authenticated.

>

> A. They are undergoing the peer review process at two separate journals,

> which can take several month. We can't disclose the names of the journals

> because they have prohibited us from doing so, but we hope that both studies

> will be accepted and published by the end of 2008.

>

>

> Q. It would be helpful to conduct studies comparing the efficacy of juice

> from fresh Gou Qi ZI berries as opposed to reconstituted juice from dried

> berries.

>

> A. There's nothing wrong with using the dried gou qi zi, as has been done

> in China for thousands of years. But, as with any other fruit, we believe

> that fresh is better than dried. I always use the example of grapes vs.

> raisins. When we know that the reason that red grapes are healthy because of

> the red pigment anthocyanin, how could one expect to get the same benefit

> from raisins or from raisin juice?

>

>

> Q. Can you tell me precisely where the Gou Qi Zi berry that Freelife uses

> comes from?

>

>

> A. From the Yellow River floodplains of Ningxia Hui province in north

> central China. There are also some great berries grown in Xinjiang Uygur

> province in the west, but our problem with using them is that we wouldn't be

> able to get the fresh berries transported to our juicing plant in Gansu

> province quickly enough to prevent spoilage.

>

> Q. Why is the product called Himalayan Goji when it comes from Ningxia Hui

> province in north central China, and Xinjiang Uygur in the Northwest. These

> are nowhere near the Himalayas?

>

> A. The Himalayan people were the originators of a comprehensive

> wellness-based system of medicine, which predates TCM. They taught their

> system to the visiting Chinese silk traders and scholars, who ultimately

> refined it. Several Lycium species were used by the Himalayans, and

> according to legend, the Chinese visitors took samples home with them and

> planted them in their own valleys in northern and northwestern China. The

> name " Himalayan Goji Juice " was meant only to honor the discoverers of the

> berry, but it was precisely because of confusion that we named our new

> product " GoChi " .

>

>

> Q. I am confused about an apparent contradiction. From what you

> represented to me, and from what the brochure " The pursuit of perfection "

> states, the berries used are freshly picked, cold pressed and packed in

> aseptic containers before they are shipped overseas (not reconstituted! )

> Yet, in the first study by Amagase and Nance it states on page 404 under

> Materials and Methods: " ...This test material is a liquid dietary supplement

> containing reconstituted juice from fresh whole L. Barbarum fruit with 10%

> excipients by volume. " So which is it?

>

>

> A.The berries are freshly picked in Ningxia Hui, and are then shipped to

> our modern processing facility in nearby Gansu province. There, they are

> cold-pressed, after which about 50% of the water is removed by cold (36 –

> 38ËšF), vacuum-assisted rotary thin-film evaporation. That gives us a

> concentrated puree (of a consistency somewhat like thin tomato paste). We do

> this because the harvesting season is only 3 months long (July – September),

> and we must purchase and prepare enough goji puree to last the rest of the

> year (with accommodations for anticipated growth). Removing the water makes

> it easier to store the puree under refrigerated conditions in aseptically

> sterilized totes. From a microbiological standpoint, removing the water also

> reduces water activity, meaning that the puree is far less likely to harbor

> bacteria and other microbes. Once we are ready for final processing, the

> puree is air-freighted to our bottling plant in the U.S., where it is

> reconstituted (meaning that the exact amount of water that was removed in

> Gansu is now replenished) , and then it is blended with a small (<10%) of

> grape and pomegranate juice to ensure a uniform color (our berries are

> picked for their polysaccharide content, not their color) and some natural

> goji berry flavor (because once again, our berries have the highest LBP

> content and not always the sweetest taste – the natural goji berry flavor

> ensures that every bottle will taste the same). Lastly, the product is

> aseptically sterilized by a 4-second heat treatment (actually a shvitz with

> live steam) that only coagulates microbial proteins and does not harm the

> delicate LBP content. We proved this during our process design and

> validation phase, and we test every batch to ensure that our product is

> pristine and fully potent.

>

>

> Q. Would it not be indicated to publish a research study comparing the

> potency of fresh Gou Qi Zi juice as opposed to reconstituted juice (assuming

> that Freelife Go Chi juice is indeed fresh!).

>

> A. This is a very interesting idea, and if we had an unlimited research

> budget, I would love to do a study comparing our product with those of our

> competitors, all of whom are using dried berries. Unfortunately, there is a

> limit to the size of Ray and Kevin's wallet, but I can tell you this. We

> have analyzed every competing product that we have found on the market,

> including Goji 100, Goji Gold, Goji Splash and the rest, and we have not

> found one that has even one-third of our LBP content. And we truly believe,

> as do most researchers, that the power of goji lies in these amazing

> glycopeptides known as Lycium barbarum polysaccharides (why Chinese

> researchers named them polysaccharides is a mystery to me, especially when

> it's the amino acids on the glycopeptide surface – and their strong

> resemblance to microbial antigens – that initiates and promotes immune

> response). We also believe that there is significant LBP degradation in

> dried berries. Is

> it enough to render them ineffective? No. The long history of use of gou qi

> zi in TCM is testimony to its effectiveness, but we are seeing with our

> product is quite remarkable. In China, people take gou qi zi over a lifetime

> to achieve moderate improvement in disease resistance and health. But we're

> seeing dramatic short-term improvement, and perhaps that's the biggest

> difference in using fresh berries – more polysaccharide power.

>

>

> Q. Would you be able to share with me the comparative analysis of the

> other Goji juice products?

>

> A. Sorry, but that information is highly confidential. Our philosophy is

> that we would rather promote our product based on its clinically

> demonstrated benefit rather than by slamming our competitors.

>

>

> Q. Can you explain in detail how the 90 day money back guarantee works. I

> understand that if not satisfied than when 90 days worth of bottles are

> returned, the amount paid for them will be refunded in full, correct?

> Well, first of all, I understand that this is based upon drinking 4 oz

> per day, but how many bottles does that mean? Also, what if two or three

> family members have been drinking the Go Chi juice, and none of them are

> satisfied, if all three return their bottles will they receive the same

> refund?

>

> A. FreeLife's no risk guarantee is just that: If you are dissatisfied

> with our product for any reason, return it within 90 days and receive a

> 100% refund, even if the bottle is empty! If you join FreeLife and you

> decide it is not for you even after 90 days, just let Freelife know that you

> wish to cancel. Freelife will " refund your money less a 10% handling fee for

> all resalable product and sales aids you purchased within one year of your

> decision to cancel " .

>

>

> Q. What are the production costs that are involved, and why such an

> enormous price per bottle. Please show me how what is charged is not a

> reflection of a price which is inflated to benefit those higher up in the

> Multi-level marketing chain?

>

> A. The cost of our product is far higher than any other, as we are the

> only company that is using fresh berries and not dried. The logistics of

> transporting and quickly processing our berries in rural northern China are

> daunting, and are very costly. Also, we would ask that you consider the

> millions of dollars that we are spending on clinical research and charitable

> works. When compared to products such as Goji 100, we are competitively

> priced. We feel no reason to compete with the low-grade goji products sold

> at deep discount in Wal-Mart and other outlets. We truly believe that GoChi

> provides outstanding value for the money, even at the full retail price.

> However, many of our Marketing Executives receive rebates and bonuses that

> result in them paying little or nothing for their product. Our compensation

> plan benefits everyone who chooses to pursue our business opportunity, and

> it is by far the most generous pay plan in the industry.

>

> Q. Would it not be prudent for Freelife to donate some of their profits

> back to the Chinese Medical community, such as to the TCM medical schools,

> community clinics, research facilities, etc. The Chinese medical community

> is an incredible potential ally, for sales referrals, and medical

> validation. Yet, thus far, the community views GoChi with much scepticism

> and distrust. As I think I have indicated to you, if I believe in a product

> and receive satisfactory answers to my question, I will promote it. I can

> assure you that the same is true industry wide, but good will needs to be

> cultivated. Comments?

>

> A. We have donate generously from our profits to our worldwide GojiKids

> foundation, and a good amount of money has been spent in the areas of

> Ningxia Hui and Gansu provinces where our berries are grown and juiced.

> Perhaps some day we will be able to expand our charitable efforts beyond

> children's relief efforts, but for now, this is where we are dedicating our

> dollars and our time.

>

> Q. It is customary for suppliers of medicinals, nutraceuticals, and other

> health products to offer licensed practitioners professional discounts. Why

> is that not the policy of Freelife?

>

> A. The suppliers that you mention in the practitioner channel have a

> completely different sales and marketing structure, and our plan is simply

> not optimized to favor one class of customers at the expense of others. As

> stated previously, we do offer many opportunities for product rebates,

> volume-driven bonuses and substantial income. I'm just not the person to

> discuss them with you, as it's not my area of competence.

>

> Q. I am concerned with the hyperbole that has accompanied some of the sales

> people I have come in contact with. Some of the claims and testimonials

> border on health claims which contravene FDA regulations. Please see this

> link to the letter from the FDA.

> http://www.fda. gov/cder/ warn/cyber/ 2006/CL226e. pdf How do you reconcile

> this?

>

> A. I agree completely, and it bothers me tremendously that some of our

> people are trying to market our product as some kind of miracle cure. This

> letter was sent to a FreeLife distributor, not to FreeLife. We have a strict

> policy against making illegal medical claims for our product, and we

> terminate any distributor who fails to take down non-compliant websites or

> who distributes non-compliant materials. This is why FreeLife has never

> received a warning letter from FDA or a state Attorney-General. You will not

> find anything on a FreeLife website – past, present, or future – that says

> anything about using our products for the treatment or cure of any disease,

> and we strongly recommend to our Marketing Executives that they speak only

> of the 19 clinically demonstrated benefits of GoChi and avoid trying to

> promote this product as some type of cure-all. We have no proof that it is

> effective against any disease or condition, and we have no intention

> of studying it in any of these areas. Why? Because, in the eyes of FDA,

> that would re-classify our product as an unapproved new drug. It currently

> costs about $600 million and 10 years to register a new drug in this

> country, and you can't sell drugs through Network Marketing, so can you see

> why we would never go that route? We do believe, though that GoChi is the

> best gou qi zi product on the planet, and we are certain that it will be a

> valuable addition to the armamentarium of any TCM practitioner. And,

> although I wish that I could teach restraint to those who would have you

> believe that GoChi can grow new limbs, I hope that you will forgive them and

> understand that their exuberance arises from having seen remarkable changes

> in themselves and in those dear to them as a result of using the

> product. But this is not how we promote our product. GoChi has been

> clinically demonstrated against placebo in a published randomized,

> double-blind study to

> significantly improve sleep, energy, mental sharpness, feelings of calm,

> contentment, good health and happiness, to help relieve stress and to

> improve regularity. Blood tests have shown dramatic increases in the body's

> ability to defend itself against toxic free radicals and to improve immune

> defenses. Isn't that enough? If people's medical conditions are improving

> while taking GoChi, it's because they are becoming more immunocompetent. The

> immune system is G-d's miracle, not the goji berry. GoChi is simply the

> humble facilitator that restores balance to immunity. That is entirely

> consistent with the use of gou qi zi in Traditional .

>

> As many of you expressed, I too, harbor a natural scepticism towards

> products that make spectacular claims. But, in my opinion, the tough

> questions I asked were answered satisfactorily, and I will now recommend

> this product to those patients who are liver yin and blood, and Kidney yin

> and jing vacuitous.

> The product appears to have quality and the guarantee is reasonable. If

> any of you are interested in it feel free to write or call me.

>

>

> Sincerely,

>

>

>

> www.traditionaljewi shmedicine. net

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Geoff,

 

I think that you are missing the point:  If the studies are randomized, double

blind and placebo controlled, then the issue of pushing an agenda  and concerns

with objectivity become moot.  Again, this is why studies need to be carefully

peer reviewed before they are  published  in scholarly journals.  The fact that

one has been published and 2 others are expected to be published speaks well for

the integrity of the studies. 

 

Respectfully,

 

 

 

 

 

 

--- On Thu, 8/21/08, G Hudson <ozark.canuck wrote:

 

G Hudson <ozark.canuck

Re: Follow up questions on Gou Qi Zi juice-GoChi

 

Thursday, August 21, 2008, 3:00 PM

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

, yehuda frischman

<@.. .> wrote:

 

> ...We have other unreleased studies that have been conducted around

the world by members of our independent Scientific Advisory Board.

 

Did he really write that (our..independent) ? Hmm. I have a personal

independent non-biased opinion also.

 

Geoff

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Yehuda,

 

Thanks for the pubmed study and am excited to see the forthcoming studies.

Of course, any company would only publish results which would support the

sale of their own product,

so hopefully we can see the entire results, irrespective of the outcome, in

the name of science.

 

If we go by Anthocyanin content as the basis of our evaluation of the Go-chi

product,

The " Change of Total Anthocyanins in Blueberries and Their Antioxidant

Effect After Drying and Freezing " study that you linked for us

had these results:

 

* " Table 1*

 

Anthocyanin content in evaluated samples.

Blueberry samplesTotal anthocyaninsmg/g dry matter

------------------------------

Fresh blueberries (FR0)7.2 ± 0.5a**Fresh blueberries 2-week5.7 ± 0.5abstorage

at 5°C (FR2)Untreated dried (UN)4.3 ± 0.1bcPretreated dried (PT)3.7 ±

0.2cStored

frozen for 1 month (FZ1M)8.1 ± 0.1aStored frozen for 3 months (FZ3M)7.9 ±

1.3a "

 

Which one of these would the Go-chi product fall under? Once the product is

put on the shelf even after initial freezing, the anthocyanin level falls to

levels of those of " Untreated Dried " .

5.7 +/- .5 (if stored at 5 degrees celsius, which I don't believe the

Go-chi product is consistently stored at, because of transportation,

distribution to customers via vendors via outlets and storage) vs. 4.3 +/-

..1 (if untreated and dried)

This anthocyanin content difference is not significant.

When the product becomes unfrozen and goes on the shelf for weeks to months,

the anythocyanin level will drop to levels below that of 5.7 +/- .5

(according to the decreasing trend).

 

This study was also ex vivo. But from the results, we can see that a

product which is not kept consistently frozen, does not have any significant

increase in anthocyanins than a product which is untreated and dried (ie.

organic dried gou qi zi).

 

So, for now, I'll stick to the dried gou qi zi.

If you can find some fresh-frozen gou qi zi berries, that's another story.

 

Respectfully,

K.

 

 

 

On Thu, Aug 21, 2008 at 10:47 AM, wrote:

 

> Dear Kokko,

>

> Studies do show that drying decreases anthocyanin content in fruit.

> See:(http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?artid=1082901

> And again the problem I have with ORAC scoring is that it just measures in

> vitro, not in vivo. The amount of grape and pomegranate juice added to Go

> Chi IMO is statistically insignificant (3%) and is added to enhance flavor.

> Of course, this could present a problem to someone hypersensitive

> to pomegranates and/or grapes (I have two such patients!)

>

> Your concerns, I think, are one of the reasons that Freelife has conducted

> other clinical studies, and I await the published results of the two

> additional studies submitted to peer-review journals which should be out

> before the end of the year which I referred to earlier: The immune study

> testing and comparing the significant difference of three markers in vivo :

> lymphocytes, IL-2 and IgG, and the antioxidant study testing and comparing,

> again, in vivo levels of SOD, GSH-Px and MDA.

>

> Concerning the cost, they claim that the costs involved in their production

> are " higher than any other, as we are the only company that is using fresh

> berries and not dried. The logistics of transporting and quickly processing

> our berries in rural northern China are daunting.... " That doesn't seem

> unreasonable to me, assuming that what they are claiming is true. It is

> also telling, I think, that they are investing a significant amount of

> their budget to research and development in order to support their claims

> scientifically. I think that this also is unique for companies hawking a

> product.

>

> Again, the two additional studies have been presented and will be published

> shortly, apparently. They say that other studies are forthcoming.

>

> As always, I appreciate your insightful questions and desire to reinforce

> scientific validation of our wonderful medicine.

>

> All the best,

>

>

> Yehuda

>

>

> Yehuda,

> Thanks for relaying this info to the group.

> I'm not convinced that the fresh puree that has been reconstituted,

> bottled,

> shipped and sitting on a non-refrigerated shelf is going to have more

> nutritional value than the dried fruit that can be eaten whole or decocted

> immediately be a patient or practitioner.

> There was a clinical study done to compare the " Antioxidant capacity and

> phenolic content of grapes, sun-dried raisins, and golden raisins and their

> effect on ex vivo serum antioxidant capacity. "

>

> " The objectives of this study were to compare the antioxidant capacity and

> phenolic content of green Thompson seedless grapes (the most common variety

> of grapes consumed in the United States), sun-dried raisins, and golden

> raisins (both produced from Thompson seedless grapes) and to observe the

> effects of their consumption over 4 weeks in 15 healthy human males with a

> cross-over design. The oxygen radical absorbance capacity (ORAC) (positive

> statistical significance for grapes after 2 weeks and golden raisins after

> 3

> weeks), serum oxidation (positive statistical significance for golden

> raisin

> lag time after 4 weeks), total phenolics (no significant effects), and

> C-reactive protein (no significant effects) were monitored. "

>

> *The conclusions from the study were that, " Golden raisins had the highest

> antioxidant capacity and phenolic content. " *

> http://cat.inist. fr/?aModele= afficheN & cpsidt=19186324

>

> So, more clinical research needs to be done to be convincing that the

> Go-chi

> juice is more beneficial than the traditional dried berries, especially for

> the price differential.

> If raisins have similar or even higher antioxidant profiles than the fresh

> grapes from which they were derived, why pay 10 times more for the same

> stuff in a bottle? (Since these fresh gou qi zi vs dried gou qi zi studies

> have not been published, how can we truly know other than make

> speculations,

> as the Go-chi juice sales representative has done)

>

> Also, since grape and pomegranate juice are added to the puree for the

> Go-chi juice,

> doesn't that skew the results for the studies, since it has been long

> verified that grape and pomegranate juices are among the highest ORAC

> scored

> foods? That doesn't give credence to " Go-chi " juice, but the power of

> grape and pomegranate juices mixed with Gou qi zi (which has already been

> validated by traditional use).

>

> What if I chewed dried gou qi zi mixing it with my salivary enzymes,

> instead

> of having a processing blade slice it and then have it take weeks to months

> to get to my mouth?

>

> Without this evidence, it would be difficult for me to sell the " Go-chi "

> product instead of giving my patients a pound of Organic dried Gou qi zi.

>

> Respectfully,

> K.

>

> On Thu, Aug 21, 2008 at 4:34 AM, wrote:

>

> >

> > Dear colleagues,

> >

> > About two weeks ago, I wrote to you asking for your feedback concerning

> > Gou Qi Zi juice sold as GoChi by Freelife. I had a number of questions

> and

> > doubts about the product, and as I expressed, the concept of multi-level

> > marketing I find abhorrent. I took your questions as well as my own, and

> > presented them to the Freelife's chief products officer. Below are my

> > questions and the answers I received:

> >

> > Q.It would be wise to have research done not by an employee of Freelife.

> > It gives the impression of being jaded.

> >

> > A. Like all peer-reviewed journals, the Journal of Alternative and

> > Complementary Medicine blinds their expert judges, so they had no idea

> that

> > the study was performed by the eminent Dr. Amagase and Dr. Nance.

> Regardless

> > of who designs or conducts a study, the fairness and honesty are

> guaranteed

> > by randomizing, double-blinding and placebo control. In our second and

> third

> > studies, Dr. Amagase was a corresponding author and did not conduct the

> > study. We have other unreleased studies that have been conducted around

> the

> > world by members of our independent Scientific Advisory Board.

> >

> >

> > Q. To be really considered seriously by the scientific community, studies

> > should certainly be for longer than two weeks and they should be

> conducted

> > by objective third parties who do not have a vested interest in their

> > validation.

> >

> > A. We respectfully disagree. For years, our customers had been telling us

> > that they were getting remarkable results from our product within two

> weeks

> > or less. Frankly, we didn't believe them because there was nothing in the

> > history of Traditional to support this. But, then again,

> > goji's history in TCM has been in the form of dried berries, and our

> product

> > is the first ever to be made from fresh berries, and therefore delivers

> far

> > more of the goji berry's bioactive polysaccharides. And so, we decided to

> > see if our customers were really experiencing these reported benefits or

> if

> > they were simply experiencing a placebo effect. We designed and conducted

> a

> > 14 day randomized, double-blind, placebo controlled study and found that

> our

> > customers were not crazy after all. The peer review judges at the medical

> > journal that accepted and published our study had no problem with its 14

> day

> > duration, or that it was conducted on FreeLife

> > employees. Our second and third studies were conducted for 30 days each,

> > and on larger populations who had no knowledge of FreeLife or our

> products.

> > Other ongoing and planned studies are at 60 and 90 day duration.

> >

> > Q. These studies are very important to me and I would like to know when

> > they will be published and authenticated.

> >

> > A. They are undergoing the peer review process at two separate journals,

> > which can take several month. We can't disclose the names of the journals

> > because they have prohibited us from doing so, but we hope that both

> studies

> > will be accepted and published by the end of 2008.

> >

> >

> > Q. It would be helpful to conduct studies comparing the efficacy of juice

> > from fresh Gou Qi ZI berries as opposed to reconstituted juice from dried

> > berries.

> >

> > A. There's nothing wrong with using the dried gou qi zi, as has been done

> > in China for thousands of years. But, as with any other fruit, we believe

> > that fresh is better than dried. I always use the example of grapes vs.

> > raisins. When we know that the reason that red grapes are healthy because

> of

> > the red pigment anthocyanin, how could one expect to get the same benefit

> > from raisins or from raisin juice?

> >

> >

> > Q. Can you tell me precisely where the Gou Qi Zi berry that Freelife uses

> > comes from?

> >

> >

> > A. From the Yellow River floodplains of Ningxia Hui province in north

> > central China. There are also some great berries grown in Xinjiang Uygur

> > province in the west, but our problem with using them is that we wouldn't

> be

> > able to get the fresh berries transported to our juicing plant in Gansu

> > province quickly enough to prevent spoilage.

> >

> > Q. Why is the product called Himalayan Goji when it comes from Ningxia

> Hui

> > province in north central China, and Xinjiang Uygur in the Northwest.

> These

> > are nowhere near the Himalayas?

> >

> > A. The Himalayan people were the originators of a comprehensive

> > wellness-based system of medicine, which predates TCM. They taught their

> > system to the visiting Chinese silk traders and scholars, who ultimately

> > refined it. Several Lycium species were used by the Himalayans, and

> > according to legend, the Chinese visitors took samples home with them and

> > planted them in their own valleys in northern and northwestern China. The

> > name " Himalayan Goji Juice " was meant only to honor the discoverers of

> the

> > berry, but it was precisely because of confusion that we named our new

> > product " GoChi " .

> >

> >

> > Q. I am confused about an apparent contradiction. From what you

> > represented to me, and from what the brochure " The pursuit of perfection "

> > states, the berries used are freshly picked, cold pressed and packed in

> > aseptic containers before they are shipped overseas (not reconstituted! )

> > Yet, in the first study by Amagase and Nance it states on page 404 under

> > Materials and Methods: " ...This test material is a liquid dietary

> supplement

> > containing reconstituted juice from fresh whole L. Barbarum fruit with

> 10%

> > excipients by volume. " So which is it?

> >

> >

> > A.The berries are freshly picked in Ningxia Hui, and are then shipped to

> > our modern processing facility in nearby Gansu province. There, they are

> > cold-pressed, after which about 50% of the water is removed by cold (36 –

> > 38ËšF), vacuum-assisted rotary thin-film evaporation. That gives us a

> > concentrated puree (of a consistency somewhat like thin tomato paste). We

> do

> > this because the harvesting season is only 3 months long (July –

> September),

> > and we must purchase and prepare enough goji puree to last the rest of

> the

> > year (with accommodations for anticipated growth). Removing the water

> makes

> > it easier to store the puree under refrigerated conditions in aseptically

> > sterilized totes. From a microbiological standpoint, removing the water

> also

> > reduces water activity, meaning that the puree is far less likely to

> harbor

> > bacteria and other microbes. Once we are ready for final processing, the

> > puree is air-freighted to our bottling plant in the U.S., where it is

> > reconstituted (meaning that the exact amount of water that was removed in

> > Gansu is now replenished) , and then it is blended with a small (<10%) of

> > grape and pomegranate juice to ensure a uniform color (our berries are

> > picked for their polysaccharide content, not their color) and some

> natural

> > goji berry flavor (because once again, our berries have the highest LBP

> > content and not always the sweetest taste – the natural goji berry flavor

> > ensures that every bottle will taste the same). Lastly, the product is

> > aseptically sterilized by a 4-second heat treatment (actually a shvitz

> with

> > live steam) that only coagulates microbial proteins and does not harm the

> > delicate LBP content. We proved this during our process design and

> > validation phase, and we test every batch to ensure that our product is

> > pristine and fully potent.

> >

> >

> > Q. Would it not be indicated to publish a research study comparing the

> > potency of fresh Gou Qi Zi juice as opposed to reconstituted juice

> (assuming

> > that Freelife Go Chi juice is indeed fresh!).

> >

> > A. This is a very interesting idea, and if we had an unlimited research

> > budget, I would love to do a study comparing our product with those of

> our

> > competitors, all of whom are using dried berries. Unfortunately, there is

> a

> > limit to the size of Ray and Kevin's wallet, but I can tell you this. We

> > have analyzed every competing product that we have found on the market,

> > including Goji 100, Goji Gold, Goji Splash and the rest, and we have not

> > found one that has even one-third of our LBP content. And we truly

> believe,

> > as do most researchers, that the power of goji lies in these amazing

> > glycopeptides known as Lycium barbarum polysaccharides (why Chinese

> > researchers named them polysaccharides is a mystery to me, especially

> when

> > it's the amino acids on the glycopeptide surface – and their strong

> > resemblance to microbial antigens – that initiates and promotes immune

> > response). We also believe that there is significant LBP degradation in

> > dried berries. Is

> > it enough to render them ineffective? No. The long history of use of gou

> qi

> > zi in TCM is testimony to its effectiveness, but we are seeing with our

> > product is quite remarkable. In China, people take gou qi zi over a

> lifetime

> > to achieve moderate improvement in disease resistance and health. But

> we're

> > seeing dramatic short-term improvement, and perhaps that's the biggest

> > difference in using fresh berries – more polysaccharide power.

> >

> >

> > Q. Would you be able to share with me the comparative analysis of the

> > other Goji juice products?

> >

> > A. Sorry, but that information is highly confidential. Our philosophy is

> > that we would rather promote our product based on its clinically

> > demonstrated benefit rather than by slamming our competitors.

> >

> >

> > Q. Can you explain in detail how the 90 day money back guarantee works. I

> > understand that if not satisfied than when 90 days worth of bottles are

> > returned, the amount paid for them will be refunded in full, correct?

> > Well, first of all, I understand that this is based upon drinking 4 oz

> > per day, but how many bottles does that mean? Also, what if two or three

> > family members have been drinking the Go Chi juice, and none of them are

> > satisfied, if all three return their bottles will they receive the same

> > refund?

> >

> > A. FreeLife's no risk guarantee is just that: If you are dissatisfied

> > with our product for any reason, return it within 90 days and receive a

> > 100% refund, even if the bottle is empty! If you join FreeLife and you

> > decide it is not for you even after 90 days, just let Freelife know that

> you

> > wish to cancel. Freelife will " refund your money less a 10% handling fee

> for

> > all resalable product and sales aids you purchased within one year of

> your

> > decision to cancel " .

> >

> >

> > Q. What are the production costs that are involved, and why such an

> > enormous price per bottle. Please show me how what is charged is not a

> > reflection of a price which is inflated to benefit those higher up in the

> > Multi-level marketing chain?

> >

> > A. The cost of our product is far higher than any other, as we are the

> > only company that is using fresh berries and not dried. The logistics of

> > transporting and quickly processing our berries in rural northern China

> are

> > daunting, and are very costly. Also, we would ask that you consider the

> > millions of dollars that we are spending on clinical research and

> charitable

> > works. When compared to products such as Goji 100, we are competitively

> > priced. We feel no reason to compete with the low-grade goji products

> sold

> > at deep discount in Wal-Mart and other outlets. We truly believe that

> GoChi

> > provides outstanding value for the money, even at the full retail price.

> > However, many of our Marketing Executives receive rebates and bonuses

> that

> > result in them paying little or nothing for their product. Our

> compensation

> > plan benefits everyone who chooses to pursue our business opportunity,

> and

> > it is by far the most generous pay plan in the industry.

> >

> > Q. Would it not be prudent for Freelife to donate some of their profits

> > back to the Chinese Medical community, such as to the TCM medical

> schools,

> > community clinics, research facilities, etc. The Chinese medical

> community

> > is an incredible potential ally, for sales referrals, and medical

> > validation. Yet, thus far, the community views GoChi with much scepticism

> > and distrust. As I think I have indicated to you, if I believe in a

> product

> > and receive satisfactory answers to my question, I will promote it. I can

> > assure you that the same is true industry wide, but good will needs to be

> > cultivated. Comments?

> >

> > A. We have donate generously from our profits to our worldwide GojiKids

> > foundation, and a good amount of money has been spent in the areas of

> > Ningxia Hui and Gansu provinces where our berries are grown and juiced.

> > Perhaps some day we will be able to expand our charitable efforts beyond

> > children's relief efforts, but for now, this is where we are dedicating

> our

> > dollars and our time.

> >

> > Q. It is customary for suppliers of medicinals, nutraceuticals, and other

> > health products to offer licensed practitioners professional discounts.

> Why

> > is that not the policy of Freelife?

> >

> > A. The suppliers that you mention in the practitioner channel have a

> > completely different sales and marketing structure, and our plan is

> simply

> > not optimized to favor one class of customers at the expense of others.

> As

> > stated previously, we do offer many opportunities for product rebates,

> > volume-driven bonuses and substantial income. I'm just not the person to

> > discuss them with you, as it's not my area of competence.

> >

> > Q. I am concerned with the hyperbole that has accompanied some of the

> sales

> > people I have come in contact with. Some of the claims and testimonials

> > border on health claims which contravene FDA regulations. Please see this

> > link to the letter from the FDA.

> > http://www.fda. gov/cder/ warn/cyber/ 2006/CL226e. pdf How do you

> reconcile

> > this?

> >

> > A. I agree completely, and it bothers me tremendously that some of our

> > people are trying to market our product as some kind of miracle cure.

> This

> > letter was sent to a FreeLife distributor, not to FreeLife. We have a

> strict

> > policy against making illegal medical claims for our product, and we

> > terminate any distributor who fails to take down non-compliant websites

> or

> > who distributes non-compliant materials. This is why FreeLife has never

> > received a warning letter from FDA or a state Attorney-General. You will

> not

> > find anything on a FreeLife website – past, present, or future – that

> says

> > anything about using our products for the treatment or cure of any

> disease,

> > and we strongly recommend to our Marketing Executives that they speak

> only

> > of the 19 clinically demonstrated benefits of GoChi and avoid trying to

> > promote this product as some type of cure-all. We have no proof that it

> is

> > effective against any disease or condition, and we have no intention

> > of studying it in any of these areas. Why? Because, in the eyes of FDA,

> > that would re-classify our product as an unapproved new drug. It

> currently

> > costs about $600 million and 10 years to register a new drug in this

> > country, and you can't sell drugs through Network Marketing, so can you

> see

> > why we would never go that route? We do believe, though that GoChi is the

> > best gou qi zi product on the planet, and we are certain that it will be

> a

> > valuable addition to the armamentarium of any TCM practitioner. And,

> > although I wish that I could teach restraint to those who would have you

> > believe that GoChi can grow new limbs, I hope that you will forgive them

> and

> > understand that their exuberance arises from having seen remarkable

> changes

> > in themselves and in those dear to them as a result of using the

> > product. But this is not how we promote our product. GoChi has been

> > clinically demonstrated against placebo in a published randomized,

> > double-blind study to

> > significantly improve sleep, energy, mental sharpness, feelings of calm,

> > contentment, good health and happiness, to help relieve stress and to

> > improve regularity. Blood tests have shown dramatic increases in the

> body's

> > ability to defend itself against toxic free radicals and to improve

> immune

> > defenses. Isn't that enough? If people's medical conditions are improving

> > while taking GoChi, it's because they are becoming more immunocompetent.

> The

> > immune system is G-d's miracle, not the goji berry. GoChi is simply the

> > humble facilitator that restores balance to immunity. That is entirely

> > consistent with the use of gou qi zi in Traditional .

> >

> > As many of you expressed, I too, harbor a natural scepticism towards

> > products that make spectacular claims. But, in my opinion, the tough

> > questions I asked were answered satisfactorily, and I will now recommend

> > this product to those patients who are liver yin and blood, and Kidney

> yin

> > and jing vacuitous.

> > The product appears to have quality and the guarantee is reasonable. If

> > any of you are interested in it feel free to write or call me.

> >

> >

> > Sincerely,

> >

> >

> >

> > www.traditionaljewi shmedicine. net

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

Hi Kokko,

 

The point of the study was that drying significantly lowers the

berry anthocyanin content.  Now you are contending that it is a stretch to

apply the fresh standards to Go Chi, which is essentially pureed and then flash

pasteurized.  We will wait for the studies to be published, but my point was

that assuming that their process is able to sustain the benefit of the fresh

fruit, then it would be significantly more beneficial than dried Gou Qi Zi.

 

We'll see!

 

 

 

 

 

 

--- On Fri, 8/22/08, <johnkokko wrote:

 

<johnkokko

Re: Follow up questions on Gou Qi Zi juice-GoChi

Chinese Medicine

Friday, August 22, 2008, 5:03 PM

 

 

 

 

 

 

Yehuda,

 

Thanks for the pubmed study and am excited to see the forthcoming studies.

Of course, any company would only publish results which would support the

sale of their own product,

so hopefully we can see the entire results, irrespective of the outcome, in

the name of science.

 

If we go by  content as the basis of our evaluation of the Go-chi

product,

The " Change of Total Anthocyanins in Blueberries and Their Antioxidant

Effect After Drying and Freezing " study that you linked for us

had these results:

 

* " Table 1*

 

Anthocyanin content in evaluated samples.

Blueberry samplesTotal anthocyaninsmg/ g dry matter

------------ --------- ---------

Fresh blueberries (FR0)7.2 ± 0.5a**Fresh blueberries 2-week5.7 ± 0.5abstorage

at 5°C (FR2)Untreated dried (UN)4.3 ± 0.1bcPretreated dried (PT)3.7 ±

0.2cStored

frozen for 1 month (FZ1M)8.1 ± 0.1aStored frozen for 3 months (FZ3M)7.9 ±

1.3a "

 

Which one of these would the Go-chi product fall under? Once the product is

put on the shelf even after initial freezing, the anthocyanin level falls to

levels of those of " Untreated Dried " .

5.7 +/- .5 (if stored at 5 degrees celsius, which I don't believe the

Go-chi product is consistently stored at, because of transportation,

distribution to customers via vendors via outlets and storage) vs. 4.3 +/-

..1 (if untreated and dried)

This anthocyanin content difference is not significant.

When the product becomes unfrozen and goes on the shelf for weeks to months,

the anythocyanin level will drop to levels below that of 5.7 +/- .5

(according to the decreasing trend).

 

This study was also ex vivo. But from the results, we can see that a

product which is not kept consistently frozen, does not have any significant

increase in anthocyanins than a product which is untreated and dried (ie.

organic dried gou qi zi).

 

So, for now, I'll stick to the dried gou qi zi.

If you can find some fresh-frozen gou qi zi berries, that's another story.

 

Respectfully,

K.

 

On Thu, Aug 21, 2008 at 10:47 AM, >wrote:

 

> Dear Kokko,

>

> Studies do show that drying decreases anthocyanin content in fruit.

> See:(http://www.pubmedce ntral.nih. gov/articlerende r.fcgi?artid= 1082901

> And again the problem I have with ORAC scoring is that it just measures in

> vitro, not in vivo. The amount of grape and pomegranate juice added to Go

> Chi IMO is statistically insignificant (3%) and is added to enhance flavor.

> Of course, this could present a problem to someone hypersensitive

> to pomegranates and/or grapes (I have two such patients!)

>

> Your concerns, I think, are one of the reasons that Freelife has conducted

> other clinical studies, and I await the published results of the two

> additional studies submitted to peer-review journals which should be out

> before the end of the year which I referred to earlier: The immune study

> testing and comparing the significant difference of three markers in vivo :

> lymphocytes, IL-2 and IgG, and the antioxidant study testing and comparing,

> again, in vivo levels of SOD, GSH-Px and MDA.

>

> Concerning the cost, they claim that the costs involved in their production

> are " higher than any other, as we are the only company that is using fresh

> berries and not dried. The logistics of transporting and quickly processing

> our berries in rural northern China are daunting.... " That doesn't seem

> unreasonable to me, assuming that what they are claiming is true. It is

> also telling, I think, that they are investing a significant amount of

> their budget to research and development in order to support their claims

> scientifically. I think that this also is unique for companies hawking a

> product.

>

> Again, the two additional studies have been presented and will be published

> shortly, apparently. They say that other studies are forthcoming.

>

> As always, I appreciate your insightful questions and desire to reinforce

> scientific validation of our wonderful medicine.

>

> All the best,

>

>

> Yehuda

>

>

> Yehuda,

> Thanks for relaying this info to the group.

> I'm not convinced that the fresh puree that has been reconstituted,

> bottled,

> shipped and sitting on a non-refrigerated shelf is going to have more

> nutritional value than the dried fruit that can be eaten whole or decocted

> immediately be a patient or practitioner.

> There was a clinical study done to compare the " Antioxidant capacity and

> phenolic content of grapes, sun-dried raisins, and golden raisins and their

> effect on ex vivo serum antioxidant capacity. "

>

> " The objectives of this study were to compare the antioxidant capacity and

> phenolic content of green Thompson seedless grapes (the most common variety

> of grapes consumed in the United States), sun-dried raisins, and golden

> raisins (both produced from Thompson seedless grapes) and to observe the

> effects of their consumption over 4 weeks in 15 healthy human males with a

> cross-over design. The oxygen radical absorbance capacity (ORAC) (positive

> statistical significance for grapes after 2 weeks and golden raisins after

> 3

> weeks), serum oxidation (positive statistical significance for golden

> raisin

> lag time after 4 weeks), total phenolics (no significant effects), and

> C-reactive protein (no significant effects) were monitored. "

>

> *The conclusions from the study were that, " Golden raisins had the highest

> antioxidant capacity and phenolic content. " *

> http://cat.inist. fr/?aModele= afficheN & cpsidt=19186324

>

> So, more clinical research needs to be done to be convincing that the

> Go-chi

> juice is more beneficial than the traditional dried berries, especially for

> the price differential.

> If raisins have similar or even higher antioxidant profiles than the fresh

> grapes from which they were derived, why pay 10 times more for the same

> stuff in a bottle? (Since these fresh gou qi zi vs dried gou qi zi studies

> have not been published, how can we truly know other than make

> speculations,

> as the Go-chi juice sales representative has done)

>

> Also, since grape and pomegranate juice are added to the puree for the

> Go-chi juice,

> doesn't that skew the results for the studies, since it has been long

> verified that grape and pomegranate juices are among the highest ORAC

> scored

> foods? That doesn't give credence to " Go-chi " juice, but the power of

> grape and pomegranate juices mixed with Gou qi zi (which has already been

> validated by traditional use).

>

> What if I chewed dried gou qi zi mixing it with my salivary enzymes,

> instead

> of having a processing blade slice it and then have it take weeks to months

> to get to my mouth?

>

> Without this evidence, it would be difficult for me to sell the " Go-chi "

> product instead of giving my patients a pound of Organic dried Gou qi zi.

>

> Respectfully,

> K.

>

> On Thu, Aug 21, 2008 at 4:34 AM, >wrote:

>

> >

> > Dear colleagues,

> >

> > About two weeks ago, I wrote to you asking for your feedback concerning

> > Gou Qi Zi juice sold as GoChi by Freelife. I had a number of questions

> and

> > doubts about the product, and as I expressed, the concept of multi-level

> > marketing I find abhorrent. I took your questions as well as my own, and

> > presented them to the Freelife's chief products officer. Below are my

> > questions and the answers I received:

> >

> > Q.It would be wise to have research done not by an employee of Freelife.

> > It gives the impression of being jaded.

> >

> > A. Like all peer-reviewed journals, the Journal of Alternative and

> > Complementary Medicine blinds their expert judges, so they had no idea

> that

> > the study was performed by the eminent Dr. Amagase and Dr. Nance.

> Regardless

> > of who designs or conducts a study, the fairness and honesty are

> guaranteed

> > by randomizing, double-blinding and placebo control. In our second and

> third

> > studies, Dr. Amagase was a corresponding author and did not conduct the

> > study. We have other unreleased studies that have been conducted around

> the

> > world by members of our independent Scientific Advisory Board.

> >

> >

> > Q. To be really considered seriously by the scientific community, studies

> > should certainly be for longer than two weeks and they should be

> conducted

> > by objective third parties who do not have a vested interest in their

> > validation.

> >

> > A. We respectfully disagree. For years, our customers had been telling us

> > that they were getting remarkable results from our product within two

> weeks

> > or less. Frankly, we didn't believe them because there was nothing in the

> > history of Traditional to support this. But, then again,

> > goji's history in TCM has been in the form of dried berries, and our

> product

> > is the first ever to be made from fresh berries, and therefore delivers

> far

> > more of the goji berry's bioactive polysaccharides. And so, we decided to

> > see if our customers were really experiencing these reported benefits or

> if

> > they were simply experiencing a placebo effect. We designed and conducted

> a

> > 14 day randomized, double-blind, placebo controlled study and found that

> our

> > customers were not crazy after all. The peer review judges at the medical

> > journal that accepted and published our study had no problem with its 14

> day

> > duration, or that it was conducted on FreeLife

> > employees. Our second and third studies were conducted for 30 days each,

> > and on larger populations who had no knowledge of FreeLife or our

> products.

> > Other ongoing and planned studies are at 60 and 90 day duration.

> >

> > Q. These studies are very important to me and I would like to know when

> > they will be published and authenticated.

> >

> > A. They are undergoing the peer review process at two separate journals,

> > which can take several month. We can't disclose the names of the journals

> > because they have prohibited us from doing so, but we hope that both

> studies

> > will be accepted and published by the end of 2008.

> >

> >

> > Q. It would be helpful to conduct studies comparing the efficacy of juice

> > from fresh Gou Qi ZI berries as opposed to reconstituted juice from dried

> > berries.

> >

> > A. There's nothing wrong with using the dried gou qi zi, as has been done

> > in China for thousands of years. But, as with any other fruit, we believe

> > that fresh is better than dried. I always use the example of grapes vs.

> > raisins. When we know that the reason that red grapes are healthy because

> of

> > the red pigment anthocyanin, how could one expect to get the same benefit

> > from raisins or from raisin juice?

> >

> >

> > Q. Can you tell me precisely where the Gou Qi Zi berry that Freelife uses

> > comes from?

> >

> >

> > A. From the Yellow River floodplains of Ningxia Hui province in north

> > central China. There are also some great berries grown in Xinjiang Uygur

> > province in the west, but our problem with using them is that we wouldn't

> be

> > able to get the fresh berries transported to our juicing plant in Gansu

> > province quickly enough to prevent spoilage.

> >

> > Q. Why is the product called Himalayan Goji when it comes from Ningxia

> Hui

> > province in north central China, and Xinjiang Uygur in the Northwest.

> These

> > are nowhere near the Himalayas?

> >

> > A. The Himalayan people were the originators of a comprehensive

> > wellness-based system of medicine, which predates TCM. They taught their

> > system to the visiting Chinese silk traders and scholars, who ultimately

> > refined it. Several Lycium species were used by the Himalayans, and

> > according to legend, the Chinese visitors took samples home with them and

> > planted them in their own valleys in northern and northwestern China. The

> > name " Himalayan Goji Juice " was meant only to honor the discoverers of

> the

> > berry, but it was precisely because of confusion that we named our new

> > product " GoChi " .

> >

> >

> > Q. I am confused about an apparent contradiction. From what you

> > represented to me, and from what the brochure " The pursuit of perfection "

> > states, the berries used are freshly picked, cold pressed and packed in

> > aseptic containers before they are shipped overseas (not reconstituted! )

> > Yet, in the first study by Amagase and Nance it states on page 404 under

> > Materials and Methods: " ...This test material is a liquid dietary

> supplement

> > containing reconstituted juice from fresh whole L. Barbarum fruit with

> 10%

> > excipients by volume. " So which is it?

> >

> >

> > A.The berries are freshly picked in Ningxia Hui, and are then shipped to

> > our modern processing facility in nearby Gansu province. There, they are

> > cold-pressed, after which about 50% of the water is removed by cold (36 –

> > 38ËšF), vacuum-assisted rotary thin-film evaporation. That gives us a

> > concentrated puree (of a consistency somewhat like thin tomato paste). We

> do

> > this because the harvesting season is only 3 months long (July –

> September),

> > and we must purchase and prepare enough goji puree to last the rest of

> the

> > year (with accommodations for anticipated growth). Removing the water

> makes

> > it easier to store the puree under refrigerated conditions in aseptically

> > sterilized totes. From a microbiological standpoint, removing the water

> also

> > reduces water activity, meaning that the puree is far less likely to

> harbor

> > bacteria and other microbes. Once we are ready for final processing, the

> > puree is air-freighted to our bottling plant in the U.S., where it is

> > reconstituted (meaning that the exact amount of water that was removed in

> > Gansu is now replenished) , and then it is blended with a small (<10%) of

> > grape and pomegranate juice to ensure a uniform color (our berries are

> > picked for their polysaccharide content, not their color) and some

> natural

> > goji berry flavor (because once again, our berries have the highest LBP

> > content and not always the sweetest taste – the natural goji berry flavor

> > ensures that every bottle will taste the same). Lastly, the product is

> > aseptically sterilized by a 4-second heat treatment (actually a shvitz

> with

> > live steam) that only coagulates microbial proteins and does not harm the

> > delicate LBP content. We proved this during our process design and

> > validation phase, and we test every batch to ensure that our product is

> > pristine and fully potent.

> >

> >

> > Q. Would it not be indicated to publish a research study comparing the

> > potency of fresh Gou Qi Zi juice as opposed to reconstituted juice

> (assuming

> > that Freelife Go Chi juice is indeed fresh!).

> >

> > A. This is a very interesting idea, and if we had an unlimited research

> > budget, I would love to do a study comparing our product with those of

> our

> > competitors, all of whom are using dried berries. Unfortunately, there is

> a

> > limit to the size of Ray and Kevin's wallet, but I can tell you this. We

> > have analyzed every competing product that we have found on the market,

> > including Goji 100, Goji Gold, Goji Splash and the rest, and we have not

> > found one that has even one-third of our LBP content. And we truly

> believe,

> > as do most researchers, that the power of goji lies in these amazing

> > glycopeptides known as Lycium barbarum polysaccharides (why Chinese

> > researchers named them polysaccharides is a mystery to me, especially

> when

> > it's the amino acids on the glycopeptide surface – and their strong

> > resemblance to microbial antigens – that initiates and promotes immune

> > response). We also believe that there is significant LBP degradation in

> > dried berries. Is

> > it enough to render them ineffective? No. The long history of use of gou

> qi

> > zi in TCM is testimony to its effectiveness, but we are seeing with our

> > product is quite remarkable. In China, people take gou qi zi over a

> lifetime

> > to achieve moderate improvement in disease resistance and health. But

> we're

> > seeing dramatic short-term improvement, and perhaps that's the biggest

> > difference in using fresh berries – more polysaccharide power.

> >

> >

> > Q. Would you be able to share with me the comparative analysis of the

> > other Goji juice products?

> >

> > A. Sorry, but that information is highly confidential. Our philosophy is

> > that we would rather promote our product based on its clinically

> > demonstrated benefit rather than by slamming our competitors.

> >

> >

> > Q. Can you explain in detail how the 90 day money back guarantee works. I

> > understand that if not satisfied than when 90 days worth of bottles are

> > returned, the amount paid for them will be refunded in full, correct?

> > Well, first of all, I understand that this is based upon drinking 4 oz

> > per day, but how many bottles does that mean? Also, what if two or three

> > family members have been drinking the Go Chi juice, and none of them are

> > satisfied, if all three return their bottles will they receive the same

> > refund?

> >

> > A. FreeLife's no risk guarantee is just that: If you are dissatisfied

> > with our product for any reason, return it within 90 days and receive a

> > 100% refund, even if the bottle is empty! If you join FreeLife and you

> > decide it is not for you even after 90 days, just let Freelife know that

> you

> > wish to cancel. Freelife will " refund your money less a 10% handling fee

> for

> > all resalable product and sales aids you purchased within one year of

> your

> > decision to cancel " .

> >

> >

> > Q. What are the production costs that are involved, and why such an

> > enormous price per bottle. Please show me how what is charged is not a

> > reflection of a price which is inflated to benefit those higher up in the

> > Multi-level marketing chain?

> >

> > A. The cost of our product is far higher than any other, as we are the

> > only company that is using fresh berries and not dried. The logistics of

> > transporting and quickly processing our berries in rural northern China

> are

> > daunting, and are very costly. Also, we would ask that you consider the

> > millions of dollars that we are spending on clinical research and

> charitable

> > works. When compared to products such as Goji 100, we are competitively

> > priced. We feel no reason to compete with the low-grade goji products

> sold

> > at deep discount in Wal-Mart and other outlets. We truly believe that

> GoChi

> > provides outstanding value for the money, even at the full retail price.

> > However, many of our Marketing Executives receive rebates and bonuses

> that

> > result in them paying little or nothing for their product. Our

> compensation

> > plan benefits everyone who chooses to pursue our business opportunity,

> and

> > it is by far the most generous pay plan in the industry.

> >

> > Q. Would it not be prudent for Freelife to donate some of their profits

> > back to the Chinese Medical community, such as to the TCM medical

> schools,

> > community clinics, research facilities, etc. The Chinese medical

> community

> > is an incredible potential ally, for sales referrals, and medical

> > validation. Yet, thus far, the community views GoChi with much scepticism

> > and distrust. As I think I have indicated to you, if I believe in a

> product

> > and receive satisfactory answers to my question, I will promote it. I can

> > assure you that the same is true industry wide, but good will needs to be

> > cultivated. Comments?

> >

> > A. We have donate generously from our profits to our worldwide GojiKids

> > foundation, and a good amount of money has been spent in the areas of

> > Ningxia Hui and Gansu provinces where our berries are grown and juiced.

> > Perhaps some day we will be able to expand our charitable efforts beyond

> > children's relief efforts, but for now, this is where we are dedicating

> our

> > dollars and our time.

> >

> > Q. It is customary for suppliers of medicinals, nutraceuticals, and other

> > health products to offer licensed practitioners professional discounts.

> Why

> > is that not the policy of Freelife?

> >

> > A. The suppliers that you mention in the practitioner channel have a

> > completely different sales and marketing structure, and our plan is

> simply

> > not optimized to favor one class of customers at the expense of others.

> As

> > stated previously, we do offer many opportunities for product rebates,

> > volume-driven bonuses and substantial income. I'm just not the person to

> > discuss them with you, as it's not my area of competence.

> >

> > Q. I am concerned with the hyperbole that has accompanied some of the

> sales

> > people I have come in contact with. Some of the claims and testimonials

> > border on health claims which contravene FDA regulations. Please see this

> > link to the letter from the FDA.

> > http://www.fda. gov/cder/ warn/cyber/ 2006/CL226e. pdf How do you

> reconcile

> > this?

> >

> > A. I agree completely, and it bothers me tremendously that some of our

> > people are trying to market our product as some kind of miracle cure.

> This

> > letter was sent to a FreeLife distributor, not to FreeLife. We have a

> strict

> > policy against making illegal medical claims for our product, and we

> > terminate any distributor who fails to take down non-compliant websites

> or

> > who distributes non-compliant materials. This is why FreeLife has never

> > received a warning letter from FDA or a state Attorney-General. You will

> not

> > find anything on a FreeLife website – past, present, or future – that

> says

> > anything about using our products for the treatment or cure of any

> disease,

> > and we strongly recommend to our Marketing Executives that they speak

> only

> > of the 19 clinically demonstrated benefits of GoChi and avoid trying to

> > promote this product as some type of cure-all. We have no proof that it

> is

> > effective against any disease or condition, and we have no intention

> > of studying it in any of these areas. Why? Because, in the eyes of FDA,

> > that would re-classify our product as an unapproved new drug. It

> currently

> > costs about $600 million and 10 years to register a new drug in this

> > country, and you can't sell drugs through Network Marketing, so can you

> see

> > why we would never go that route? We do believe, though that GoChi is the

> > best gou qi zi product on the planet, and we are certain that it will be

> a

> > valuable addition to the armamentarium of any TCM practitioner. And,

> > although I wish that I could teach restraint to those who would have you

> > believe that GoChi can grow new limbs, I hope that you will forgive them

> and

> > understand that their exuberance arises from having seen remarkable

> changes

> > in themselves and in those dear to them as a result of using the

> > product. But this is not how we promote our product. GoChi has been

> > clinically demonstrated against placebo in a published randomized,

> > double-blind study to

> > significantly improve sleep, energy, mental sharpness, feelings of calm,

> > contentment, good health and happiness, to help relieve stress and to

> > improve regularity. Blood tests have shown dramatic increases in the

> body's

> > ability to defend itself against toxic free radicals and to improve

> immune

> > defenses. Isn't that enough? If people's medical conditions are improving

> > while taking GoChi, it's because they are becoming more immunocompetent.

> The

> > immune system is G-d's miracle, not the goji berry. GoChi is simply the

> > humble facilitator that restores balance to immunity. That is entirely

> > consistent with the use of gou qi zi in Traditional .

> >

> > As many of you expressed, I too, harbor a natural scepticism towards

> > products that make spectacular claims. But, in my opinion, the tough

> > questions I asked were answered satisfactorily, and I will now recommend

> > this product to those patients who are liver yin and blood, and Kidney

> yin

> > and jing vacuitous.

> > The product appears to have quality and the guarantee is reasonable. If

> > any of you are interested in it feel free to write or call me.

> >

> >

> > Sincerely,

> >

> >

> >

> > www.traditionaljewi shmedicine. net

> >

> >

> >