true preventative care is healthcare insurance

[Guest guest]

Hi Lynn,

 

To me you've expressed the most poignant and salient thoughts below in terms of

history and philosophical ethics. My great grandmother in Eastern Europe was

the village herbalist and midwife with my mother in her service. She would

treat individuals and families in the sort of preventative care that might also

be seen as the mandate of the CM practitioner. Treating lifestyle and teaching

cultivation practices are more truly forms of healthcare insurance than most of

what an HMO has to offer.

 

Many people in my area including myself put money into the CM practitioner's or

tai ji instructor's pockets instead of (or in addition to) paying healthcare

insurance premiums. Taoist temple (like Nam Singh's or Liu Ming's) classes on

taoist nutrition, many tai ji and qi gong classes and many CM herbal formula

prescriptions address quality-of-life/fitness/longevity and not just illness or

pathology. In a sense the traditional sort of practitioner should indeed be

presenting healthcare insurance in the form of their own medical paradigm.

 

Sort of ironic where we are today, no? I agree with you that this is a

fascinating area where a CM practitioner must creatively develop their own

paradigm of healthcare delivery.

 

Respectfully and gratefully,

Emmanuel Segmen

-----------------------

J. Lynn Detamore, MS, L.Ac.wrote:

Janis, I replied to this thread earlier, and I forgot to address this. It is

very true that selling packages, basically but legally, is selling insurance,

and healthcare providers cannot sell insurance, only insurance companies.

 

By the way, I am a Licensed Life and Health Insurance Agent. I'm not contracted

with a company, but I am required to do the same amount of education as if I

was.

 

Hope this is helpful, I've found this a fascinating discussion. I'm glad it's

happening.

 

Lynn

 

 

[Guest guest]

Hello Emmanuel,

I do appreciate your comments. Your great grandmother sounds amazing. Her story

certainly epitomizes the concept of a Barefoot Doctor. What a neat heritage to

have.

Indeed, sometimes it is hard to convince patients that for the future, they will

be better served by some ongoing program of maintenance and prevention. It came

up on another list recently that many folks want a different kind of fix-it when

they come to us. I will certainly not denigrate seeking less toxic, more

human-friendly fix-its than some available in conventional medicine.

But short-term fix-its of any kind have limitations. When patients stay long

enough for them to appreciate value in improving diet and other lifestyle

factors -- in the US, obesity and smoking are the leading causes of preventable

illness! -- then we may share our deepest CM treasures.

Lynn

 

Pain is Normal - Be Weird!

 

J. Lynn Detamore, MS, L.Ac.

Licensed Acupuncturist

PO Box 14, Sheridan, OR 97378

503.474.8876

lynndetamore

~ Doing Better Than I Deserve ~

 

 

Emmanuel Segmen <mrsegmen

Chinese Medicine

Wednesday, August 20, 2008 4:22:39 PM

true preventative care is healthcare insurance

 

 

Hi Lynn,

 

To me you've expressed the most poignant and salient thoughts below in terms of

history and philosophical ethics. My great grandmother in Eastern Europe was the

village herbalist and midwife with my mother in her service. She would treat

individuals and families in the sort of preventative care that might also be

seen as the mandate of the CM practitioner. Treating lifestyle and teaching

cultivation practices are more truly forms of healthcare insurance than most of

what an HMO has to offer.

 

Many people in my area including myself put money into the CM practitioner' s or

tai ji instructor's pockets instead of (or in addition to) paying healthcare

insurance premiums. Taoist temple (like Nam Singh's or Liu Ming's) classes on

taoist nutrition, many tai ji and qi gong classes and many CM herbal formula

prescriptions address quality-of-life/ fitness/longevit y and not just illness

or pathology. In a sense the traditional sort of practitioner should indeed be

presenting healthcare insurance in the form of their own medical paradigm.

 

Sort of ironic where we are today, no? I agree with you that this is a

fascinating area where a CM practitioner must creatively develop their own

paradigm of healthcare delivery.

 

Respectfully and gratefully,

Emmanuel Segmen

------------ --------- --

J. Lynn Detamore, MS, L.Ac.wrote:

Janis, I replied to this thread earlier, and I forgot to address this. It is

very true that selling packages, basically but legally, is selling insurance,

and healthcare providers cannot sell insurance, only insurance companies.

 

By the way, I am a Licensed Life and Health Insurance Agent. I'm not contracted

with a company, but I am required to do the same amount of education as if I

was.

 

Hope this is helpful, I've found this a fascinating discussion. I'm glad it's

happening.

 

Lynn

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[Guest guest]

But what problems are the US members trying to self mediciate with that obesity

and smoking are the two reason for disease?Sincerely,Patricia Jordan

DVM,CVA,CTCVM & Herbology

 

:

lynndetamore: Sun, 24 Aug 2008 01:04:34 -0700Re: TCM -

true preventative care is healthcare insurance

 

 

 

 

Hello Emmanuel,I do appreciate your comments. Your great grandmother sounds

amazing. Her story certainly epitomizes the concept of a Barefoot Doctor. What a

neat heritage to have.Indeed, sometimes it is hard to convince patients that for

the future, they will be better served by some ongoing program of maintenance

and prevention. It came up on another list recently that many folks want a

different kind of fix-it when they come to us. I will certainly not denigrate

seeking less toxic, more human-friendly fix-its than some available in

conventional medicine. But short-term fix-its of any kind have limitations. When

patients stay long enough for them to appreciate value in improving diet and

other lifestyle factors -- in the US, obesity and smoking are the leading causes

of preventable illness! -- then we may share our deepest CM treasures.Lynn Pain

is Normal - Be Weird! J. Lynn Detamore, MS, L.Ac. Licensed Acupuncturist PO Box

14, Sheridan, OR 97378 503.474.8876 lynndetamore~ Doing Better Than I

Deserve ~ Emmanuel Segmen

<mrsegmen:

Wednesday, August 20, 2008 4:22:39 PMtrue preventative care is

healthcare insuranceHi Lynn,To me you've expressed the most poignant and salient

thoughts below in terms of history and philosophical ethics. My great

grandmother in Eastern Europe was the village herbalist and midwife with my

mother in her service. She would treat individuals and families in the sort of

preventative care that might also be seen as the mandate of the CM practitioner.

Treating lifestyle and teaching cultivation practices are more truly forms of

healthcare insurance than most of what an HMO has to offer.Many people in my

area including myself put money into the CM practitioner' s or tai ji

instructor's pockets instead of (or in addition to) paying healthcare insurance

premiums. Taoist temple (like Nam Singh's or Liu Ming's) classes on taoist

nutrition, many tai ji and qi gong classes and many CM herbal formula

prescriptions address quality-of-life/ fitness/longevit y and not just illness

or pathology. In a sense the traditional sort of practitioner should indeed be

presenting healthcare insurance in the form of their own medical paradigm. Sort

of ironic where we are today, no? I agree with you that this is a fascinating

area where a CM practitioner must creatively develop their own paradigm of

healthcare delivery. Respectfully and gratefully,Emmanuel Segmen------------

--------- --J. Lynn Detamore, MS, L.Ac.wrote:Janis, I replied to this thread

earlier, and I forgot to address this. It isvery true that selling packages,

basically but legally, is selling insurance,and healthcare providers cannot sell

insurance, only insurance companies.By the way, I am a Licensed Life and Health

Insurance Agent. I'm not contracted with a company, but I am required to do the

same amount of education as if I was.Hope this is helpful, I've found this a

fascinating discussion. I'm glad it'shappening.LynnRecent Activity* 4New

MembersVisit Your Group HealthHealthy AgingImprove yourquality of

life.Meditation andLovingkindnessA Groupto share and learn.Moderator

CentralJoin and receiveproduce updates.. [Non-text portions of this

message have been removed]

 

 

 

 

 

_______________

Be the filmmaker you always wanted to be—learn how to burn a DVD with Windows®.

http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/108588797/direct/01/

 

 

[Guest guest]

We must teach our patients the difference between symptom resolution and pattern

resolution.

 

Douglas Knapp

Doctoral Fellow, L.Ac.

Full Moon Acupuncture

1600 York Avenue

New York, NY 10028

212-734-1459

 

 

 

 

J. Lynn Detamore <lynndetamore

Chinese Medicine

Sunday, August 24, 2008 4:04:34 AM

Re: true preventative care is healthcare insurance

 

 

Hello Emmanuel,

I do appreciate your comments. Your great grandmother sounds amazing. Her story

certainly epitomizes the concept of a Barefoot Doctor. What a neat heritage to

have.

Indeed, sometimes it is hard to convince patients that for the future, they will

be better served by some ongoing program of maintenance and prevention. It came

up on another list recently that many folks want a different kind of fix-it when

they come to us. I will certainly not denigrate seeking less toxic, more

human-friendly fix-its than some available in conventional medicine. But

short-term fix-its of any kind have limitations. When patients stay long enough

for them to appreciate value in improving diet and other lifestyle factors -- in

the US, obesity and smoking are the leading causes of preventable illness! --

then we may share our deepest CM treasures.

Lynn

 

Pain is Normal - Be Weird!

 

J. Lynn Detamore, MS, L.Ac.

Licensed Acupuncturist

PO Box 14, Sheridan, OR 97378

503.474.8876

lynndetamore@

~ Doing Better Than I Deserve ~

 

 

Emmanuel Segmen <mrsegmen (AT) comcast (DOT) net>

 

Wednesday, August 20, 2008 4:22:39 PM

true preventative care is healthcare insurance

 

Hi Lynn,

 

To me you've expressed the most poignant and salient thoughts below in terms of

history and philosophical ethics. My great grandmother in Eastern Europe was the

village herbalist and midwife with my mother in her service. She would treat

individuals and families in the sort of preventative care that might also be

seen as the mandate of the CM practitioner. Treating lifestyle and teaching

cultivation practices are more truly forms of healthcare insurance than most of

what an HMO has to offer.

 

Many people in my area including myself put money into the CM practitioner' s or

tai ji instructor's pockets instead of (or in addition to) paying healthcare

insurance premiums. Taoist temple (like Nam Singh's or Liu Ming's) classes on

taoist nutrition, many tai ji and qi gong classes and many CM herbal formula

prescriptions address quality-of-life/ fitness/longevit y and not just illness

or pathology. In a sense the traditional sort of practitioner should indeed be

presenting healthcare insurance in the form of their own medical paradigm.

 

Sort of ironic where we are today, no? I agree with you that this is a

fascinating area where a CM practitioner must creatively develop their own

paradigm of healthcare delivery.

 

Respectfully and gratefully,

Emmanuel Segmen

------------ --------- --

J. Lynn Detamore, MS, L.Ac.wrote:

Janis, I replied to this thread earlier, and I forgot to address this. It is

very true that selling packages, basically but legally, is selling insurance,

and healthcare providers cannot sell insurance, only insurance companies.

 

By the way, I am a Licensed Life and Health Insurance Agent. I'm not contracted

with a company, but I am required to do the same amount of education as if I

was.

 

Hope this is helpful, I've found this a fascinating discussion. I'm glad it's

happening.

 

Lynn

Recent Activity

* 4

New MembersVisit Your Group

Health

Healthy Aging

Improve your

quality of life.

Meditation and

Lovingkindness

A Group

to share and learn.

Moderator Central

 

Join and receive

produce updates.

..

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Doug,

 

So well put and suggests the response to Patricia's well taken notation.

 

I teach undergraduate human anatomy and physiology to pre-healthcare track

students. I've had many TCM students come through my courses. The heavy

lifting is at the outset. It's getting the students to clearly observe the

human as a living system with a profound internal integrity of balances and

synchronicities, and not an equilibrium system. In a living homeostatic system

one adds things carefully and synchronously to support the steady state balance

and to maintain fluid communication throughout the system. I've coined certain

expressions for the classroom such as, " First, do nothing exogenous. " Rest.

Then adjust the basics of lifestyle: diet, sleep, exercise. Then add practices:

like tai ji or just a walk in the park. Only after that if balance is not

achieved, try exogenous means: add medicine.

 

WM took a strange turn in the early 1900s and became an equilibrium science

based on physical chemistry. I quote one of my biochemistry professors who on

the first day of class in medical biochemistry said, " Equilibrium is death.

Homeostasis is life. " It was one of the most important points he made in the

course.

 

Patricia, I can't say how it is to communicate with patients and students where

you are. But in the U.S., I have to break my students' habit of looking for

health (or recreation or inspiration) in a bottle, i.e. by exogenous means. I

do that by having them see clearly the integrity of living systems. This is by

far the hardest part of my job. I sense that it might be one of the hardest

parts of your job, too. Patient education as a part of home care and patient

management is challenging. Teaching personal cultivation or lifestyle practices

to make endogenous adjustments rather than responding to endogenous fixes, " Have

you got an herb that treats ..(fill in the blank)..? " Your question is well

taken.

 

Respectfully,

Emmanuel Segmen

 

 

[Guest guest]

Please pardon my dyslexic typo. I meant to say:

 

Teaching personal cultivation or lifestyle practices to make endogenous

adjustments rather than responding to exogenous fixes, " Have you got an herb

that treats ..(fill in the blank)..? "

 

Gratefully,

Emmanuel Segmen

-

Emmanuel Segmen

Chinese Medicine

Sunday, August 24, 2008 9:25 PM

Re: true preventative care is healthcare insurance

 

 

Doug,

 

So well put and suggests the response to Patricia's well taken notation.

 

I teach undergraduate human anatomy and physiology to pre-healthcare track

students. I've had many TCM students come through my courses. The heavy

lifting is at the outset. It's getting the students to clearly observe the

human as a living system with a profound internal integrity of balances and

synchronicities, and not an equilibrium system. In a living homeostatic system

one adds things carefully and synchronously to support the steady state balance

and to maintain fluid communication throughout the system. I've coined certain

expressions for the classroom such as, " First, do nothing exogenous. " Rest.

Then adjust the basics of lifestyle: diet, sleep, exercise. Then add practices:

like tai ji or just a walk in the park. Only after that if balance is not

achieved, try exogenous means: add medicine.

 

WM took a strange turn in the early 1900s and became an equilibrium science

based on physical chemistry. I quote one of my biochemistry professors who on

the first day of class in medical biochemistry said, " Equilibrium is death.

Homeostasis is life. " It was one of the most important points he made in the

course.

 

Patricia, I can't say how it is to communicate with patients and students

where you are. But in the U.S., I have to break my students' habit of looking

for health (or recreation or inspiration) in a bottle, i.e. by exogenous means.

I do that by having them see clearly the integrity of living systems. This is

by far the hardest part of my job. I sense that it might be one of the hardest

parts of your job, too. Patient education as a part of home care and patient

management is challenging. Teaching personal cultivation or lifestyle practices

to make endogenous adjustments rather than responding to endogenous fixes, " Have

you got an herb that treats ..(fill in the blank)..? " Your question is well

taken.

 

Respectfully,

Emmanuel Segmen

 

 

[Guest guest]

Pat,

Oh, it's not just us statesiders that are trying to self-medicate. All

first-world countries are finding themselves in the same tragic health bind.

I believe we spend so much energy self-medicating the stresses of everyday life

because -- this is less work than seeing ourselves as we really are, being

truthful with ourselves about changes we need to make to move forward, to be

authentic in the world we live.

Most people really, really don't want to know the truth or live by it.

Lynn

 

 

Pain is Normal - Be Weird!

 

J. Lynn Detamore, MS, L.Ac.

Licensed Acupuncturist

PO Box 14, Sheridan, OR 97378

503.474.8876

lynndetamore

~ Doing Better Than I Deserve ~

 

 

 

 

Patricia Jordan <coastalcatclinic

Chinese Traditional Medicine

Sunday, August 24, 2008 7:51:09 AM

RE: true preventative care is healthcare insurance

 

But what problems are the US  members trying to self mediciate with that obesity

and smoking are the two reason for disease?

Sincerely, Patricia Jordan DVM,CVA,CTCVM & Herbology