Guest guest Posted August 7, 2008 Report Share Posted August 7, 2008 Regarding goji juice, it is fake, Look at the ingredients in this so called goji juice. It is actually combination of several juices for the price a very good vine. Yuri Ovchinnikov, L.Ac Jamey Kowalski <jamey_kowalski Thu, 7 Aug 2008 11:47 am MLM products in a clinic In response to posts on both the TCM and CHA lists regarding goji juice, it seems important to further investigate the ethics of Multi-Level Marketed products in a holistic clinical environment. I used to sell MLM Rainbow vacuum cleaners for $1200 and they were very good, but I know they cost only a couple hundred dollars to make. Most of that profit went not to me, but to " upstream " marketers who got into the " chain " before I did. They added no value to the final product, but only to its cost as a result of their privileged position. There is no doubt that profit needs to be made in order to keep herbal & nutraceutical products flowing to clients. From farmer > aggregator/shipper > manufacturer > wholesaler > clinician there is a legitimate business argument for a fair and reasonable profit at each level. Each step (with the possible exception of wholesaler) adds some value to the product or its knowledgeable delivery to the end user. Many manufacturers thrive on this model, and those with a good product can place marketing ads and attend conferences to convey their high-quality scientific data (such as it may be, providing full study details and funding sources via URL as needed). What I do not find legitimate is profiteering by those upstream in the MLM hierarchy who directly contribute to the cost of $40/bottle wonder juice without adding any value for those seeking good health in our clinics. In my opinion a holistic healthcare model includes consideration of a client's often limited finances, and I strongly question the ethic of MLM products proffered by TCM or other holistic clinicians. Although the practitioner may not be making a killing at their level, is there not nevertheless indirect support for a predatory pricing model? Thanks for a good discussion on this topic - Sincerely, Jamey Kowalski, Herbal Student Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 7, 2008 Report Share Posted August 7, 2008 In response to posts on both the TCM and CHA lists regarding goji juice, it seems important to further investigate the ethics of Multi-Level Marketed products in a holistic clinical environment. I used to sell MLM Rainbow vacuum cleaners for $1200 and they were very good, but I know they cost only a couple hundred dollars to make. Most of that profit went not to me, but to " upstream " marketers who got into the " chain " before I did. They added no value to the final product, but only to its cost as a result of their privileged position. There is no doubt that profit needs to be made in order to keep herbal & nutraceutical products flowing to clients. From farmer > aggregator/shipper > manufacturer > wholesaler > clinician there is a legitimate business argument for a fair and reasonable profit at each level. Each step (with the possible exception of wholesaler) adds some value to the product or its knowledgeable delivery to the end user. Many manufacturers thrive on this model, and those with a good product can place marketing ads and attend conferences to convey their high-quality scientific data (such as it may be, providing full study details and funding sources via URL as needed). What I do not find legitimate is profiteering by those upstream in the MLM hierarchy who directly contribute to the cost of $40/bottle wonder juice without adding any value for those seeking good health in our clinics. In my opinion a holistic healthcare model includes consideration of a client's often limited finances, and I strongly question the ethic of MLM products proffered by TCM or other holistic clinicians. Although the practitioner may not be making a killing at their level, is there not nevertheless indirect support for a predatory pricing model? Thanks for a good discussion on this topic - Sincerely, Jamey Kowalski, Herbal Student Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 13, 2008 Report Share Posted August 13, 2008 Jamey, I agree with much of what you said. I have been solicited to get involved with goji juice, along with about half a dozen other MLM " opportunities " . I usually investigate fully and then decline the invitation. In the case of the goji juice, it is highly over priced in my opinion (much like the Rainbow vacuum). If I tried to sell grape juice for $40 a quart, pretty much no one would buy it, but if I market it as the latest wonder miracle cure and form a MLM business structure around marketing the product I could find enough gullible / greedy people to get away with it. Much to the dismay of those who get involved with most MLM's, they are not the wave of the future and in fact most are quasi-legal pyramid schemes doomed to fail for over 95% of those who get into them. Whenever the focus of the business (i.e. where you make most of the money) is on recruiting more distributors it is a pyramid scheme and is technically illegal in the US. Very few are ever prosecuted however so it is buyer beware. If you are involved with an MLM or are considering it check out these: http://www.pyramidschemealert.org/PSAMain/news/MythofIncomeReport.html and http://www.vandruff.com/mlm.html Chris Vedeler Jamey Kowalski wrote: > In response to posts on both the TCM and CHA lists regarding goji juice, it > seems important to further investigate the ethics of Multi-Level Marketed > products in a holistic clinical environment. > > I used to sell MLM Rainbow vacuum cleaners for $1200 and they were very > good, but I know they cost only a couple hundred dollars to make. Most of > that profit went not to me, but to " upstream " marketers who got into the > " chain " before I did. They added no value to the final product, but only to > its cost as a result of their privileged position. > > There is no doubt that profit needs to be made in order to keep herbal & > nutraceutical products flowing to clients. From farmer > aggregator/shipper > > manufacturer > wholesaler > clinician there is a legitimate business > argument for a fair and reasonable profit at each level. Each step (with > the possible exception of wholesaler) adds some value to the product or its > knowledgeable delivery to the end user. > > Many manufacturers thrive on this model, and those with a good product can > place marketing ads and attend conferences to convey their high-quality > scientific data (such as it may be, providing full study details and funding > sources via URL as needed). > > What I do not find legitimate is profiteering by those upstream in the MLM > hierarchy who directly contribute to the cost of $40/bottle wonder juice > without adding any value for those seeking good health in our clinics. In > my opinion a holistic healthcare model includes consideration of a client's > often limited finances, and I strongly question the ethic of MLM products > proffered by TCM or other holistic clinicians. Although the practitioner > may not be making a killing at their level, is there not nevertheless > indirect support for a predatory pricing model? > > Thanks for a good discussion on this topic - > > Sincerely, > Jamey Kowalski, Herbal Student > > > --- > > Subscribe to the free online journal for TCM at Times http://www.chinesemedicinetimes.com > > Help build the world's largest online encyclopedia for Chinese medicine and acupuncture, click, http://www.chinesemedicinetimes.com/wiki/CMTpedia > > and adjust accordingly. > > > > Please consider the environment and only print this message if absolutely necessary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 13, 2008 Report Share Posted August 13, 2008 ......sometimes you never know....In 1984 while attending ACTCM ,and having temporarily relocated from a rural area where I could trust and enjoy the water i drank, i purchased a MultiPure water purifier...I sold 2 to some classmates I can't even remember.... since then every year I receieve checks from this company. This year I have received approximately $180.- some years I have recieved $200something...really just drops in the bucket given our current economy..but $weet drops nevertheless....and again the only work i did was sign up 2 people...imagine had i sold 10 or 20 or...?.. So there are some products that have great integrity, stand the test of time but rarely are they what i would call substances. Everyone is always waiting for the next great saviour supplement/herb/etc to come rising over the horizon and it's going to save our collective sorry butts!, bestow great health upon us and make us rich...I am seriously considering renewing my status with this company and see where it takes me...Because next to our state of mind and heart and our breathing it's all about water. and by the way I really haven't used my water purifier in over 20 years....I drive to a nearby spring , fill some bottles and crocks....for me this is true prosperity. Blessings and Truthfulness to All - Christopher Vedeler Chinese Medicine Wednesday, August 13, 2008 7:03 AM Re: MLM products in a clinic Jamey, I agree with much of what you said. I have been solicited to get involved with goji juice, along with about half a dozen other MLM " opportunities " . I usually investigate fully and then decline the invitation. In the case of the goji juice, it is highly over priced in my opinion (much like the Rainbow vacuum). If I tried to sell grape juice for $40 a quart, pretty much no one would buy it, but if I market it as the latest wonder miracle cure and form a MLM business structure around marketing the product I could find enough gullible / greedy people to get away with it. Much to the dismay of those who get involved with most MLM's, they are not the wave of the future and in fact most are quasi-legal pyramid schemes doomed to fail for over 95% of those who get into them. Whenever the focus of the business (i.e. where you make most of the money) is on recruiting more distributors it is a pyramid scheme and is technically illegal in the US. Very few are ever prosecuted however so it is buyer beware. If you are involved with an MLM or are considering it check out these: http://www.pyramidschemealert.org/PSAMain/news/MythofIncomeReport.html and http://www.vandruff.com/mlm.html Chris Vedeler Jamey Kowalski wrote: > In response to posts on both the TCM and CHA lists regarding goji juice, it > seems important to further investigate the ethics of Multi-Level Marketed > products in a holistic clinical environment. > > I used to sell MLM Rainbow vacuum cleaners for $1200 and they were very > good, but I know they cost only a couple hundred dollars to make. Most of > that profit went not to me, but to " upstream " marketers who got into the > " chain " before I did. They added no value to the final product, but only to > its cost as a result of their privileged position. > > There is no doubt that profit needs to be made in order to keep herbal & > nutraceutical products flowing to clients. From farmer > aggregator/shipper > > manufacturer > wholesaler > clinician there is a legitimate business > argument for a fair and reasonable profit at each level. Each step (with > the possible exception of wholesaler) adds some value to the product or its > knowledgeable delivery to the end user. > > Many manufacturers thrive on this model, and those with a good product can > place marketing ads and attend conferences to convey their high-quality > scientific data (such as it may be, providing full study details and funding > sources via URL as needed). > > What I do not find legitimate is profiteering by those upstream in the MLM > hierarchy who directly contribute to the cost of $40/bottle wonder juice > without adding any value for those seeking good health in our clinics. In > my opinion a holistic healthcare model includes consideration of a client's > often limited finances, and I strongly question the ethic of MLM products > proffered by TCM or other holistic clinicians. Although the practitioner > may not be making a killing at their level, is there not nevertheless > indirect support for a predatory pricing model? > > Thanks for a good discussion on this topic - > > Sincerely, > Jamey Kowalski, Herbal Student > > > --- > > Subscribe to the free online journal for TCM at Times http://www.chinesemedicinetimes.com > > Help build the world's largest online encyclopedia for Chinese medicine and acupuncture, click, http://www.chinesemedicinetimes.com/wiki/CMTpedia > > and adjust accordingly. > > > > Please consider the environment and only print this message if absolutely necessary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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