Guest guest Posted October 25, 2001 Report Share Posted October 25, 2001 Dear Group: Can anyone give their experience on ulcerative colitis? Prognosis? Following is a description of the case. My patient is a 32-year old female with a 2-year history of " pan colitis " (entire colon is involved) and bloody stools 7-10 times a day. She has been on Prednisone of various doses for over a year, and when she goes below 10 mg/day, her situation is unmanageable. She has had to be hospitalized twice and given blood transfusions. She tried a macobiotic diet (some best seller on UC) for 5 months with virtually no change. She was spending all her time cooking and going to the bathroom. She will not -- cannot -- do major dietary changes just now. She has little appetite and is lucky to keep anything in. Tongue: thick yellow coat in back 1/2; red tongue body, red spots showing through even in the coated areas; pulse is wiry and thready; body is thin and hair is dry. In TCM Dx she appears to have damp heat toxin but is also extremely weak, having lost a lot of weight and fluids. Any experience in this area? She wants to come 3x a week for 6 weeks to avoid surgery. The formula I gave her for 2 weeks to stop the leakage consisted of decoction of: Rou Dou Kou, Bai Zhu, He Zi, Ren Shen, Mu Xiang, Jin Ying Zi, Rou Gui, Gan Cao, Bai Shao, Huang Qi and Sheng Ma. I needled Du 20, St 25, Ren 12, St 37, LI 11 and 4, Liv 3 Please give advice or ask questions. Julie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 26, 2001 Report Share Posted October 26, 2001 The best approach is to give clearing damp heat by enema and tonification by mouth. There is a patent formula in canton that is coated so that the tofiying herbs are released in stomach and clear heat in intestines Alon - juliej8 Thursday, October 25, 2001 9:44 PM Re:ulcerative colitis Dear Group:Can anyone give their experience on ulcerative colitis? Prognosis? Following is a description of the case.My patient is a 32-year old female with a 2-year history of "pan colitis" (entire colon is involved) and bloody stools 7-10 times a day. She has been on Prednisone of various doses for over a year, and when she goes below 10 mg/day, her situation is unmanageable. She has had to be hospitalized twice and given blood transfusions. She tried a macobiotic diet (some best seller on UC) for 5 months with virtually no change. She was spending all her time cooking and going to the bathroom. She will not -- cannot -- do major dietary changes just now. She has little appetite and is lucky to keep anything in.Tongue: thick yellow coat in back 1/2; red tongue body, red spots showing through even in the coated areas; pulse is wiry and thready; body is thin and hair is dry. In TCM Dx she appears to have damp heat toxin but is also extremely weak, having lost a lot of weight and fluids. Any experience in this area? She wants to come 3x a week for 6 weeks to avoid surgery. The formula I gave her for 2 weeks to stop the leakage consisted of decoction of: Rou Dou Kou, Bai Zhu, He Zi, Ren Shen, Mu Xiang, Jin Ying Zi, Rou Gui, Gan Cao, Bai Shao, Huang Qi and Sheng Ma. I needled Du 20, St 25, Ren 12, St 37, LI 11 and 4, Liv 3Please give advice or ask questions.JulieChinese Herbal Medicine, a voluntary organization of licensed healthcare practitioners, matriculated students and postgraduate academics specializing in Chinese Herbal Medicine, provides a variety of professional services, including board approved online continuing education. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 26, 2001 Report Share Posted October 26, 2001 Julie, > The best approach is to give clearing damp heat by enema This is not meant as advice on your patient, who seems to be in fairly desparate condition. But I wanted to point out that enemas may or may not be a good approach to treating such conditions. I know several traditional Chinese doctors who caution against irrigating the bowels. I often find that the most severe cases require the gentlest handling. Sometimes, a body in utter imbalance can be restored to relative harmony with a gentle nudge...if you find out just what needs to be nudged. Ken Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 26, 2001 Report Share Posted October 26, 2001 You might consider some Huai Hua San too. Stops bleeding from the LI due to heat toxin. I've used it and am very pleased with how well it works. Try and make sure that the herbs you use are charred as is appropriate to stop bleeding. Bensky (pg 338) doesn't mention this, but other books do. -al. juliej8 wrote: > > Dear Group: > > Can anyone give their experience on ulcerative colitis? Prognosis? Following > is a description of the case. > > My patient is a 32-year old female with a 2-year history of " pan colitis " > (entire colon is involved) and bloody stools 7-10 times a day. She has been > on Prednisone of various doses for over a year, and when she goes below 10 > mg/day, her situation is unmanageable. She has had to be hospitalized twice > and given blood transfusions. She tried a macobiotic diet (some best seller > on UC) for 5 months with virtually no change. She was spending all her time > cooking and going to the bathroom. She will not -- cannot -- do major dietary > changes just now. She has little appetite and is lucky to keep anything in. > > Tongue: thick yellow coat in back 1/2; red tongue body, red spots showing > through even in the coated areas; pulse is wiry and thready; body is thin and > hair is dry. In TCM Dx she appears to have damp heat toxin but is also > extremely weak, having lost a lot of weight and fluids. Any experience in > this area? She wants to come 3x a week for 6 weeks to avoid surgery. > > The formula I gave her for 2 weeks to stop the leakage consisted of decoction > of: Rou Dou Kou, Bai Zhu, He Zi, Ren Shen, Mu Xiang, Jin Ying Zi, Rou Gui, > Gan Cao, Bai Shao, Huang Qi and Sheng Ma. > > I needled Du 20, St 25, Ren 12, St 37, LI 11 and 4, Liv 3 > > Please give advice or ask questions. > > Julie > > Chinese Herbal Medicine, a voluntary organization of licensed healthcare practitioners, matriculated students and postgraduate academics specializing in Chinese Herbal Medicine, provides a variety of professional services, including board approved online continuing education. > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 26, 2001 Report Share Posted October 26, 2001 Julie Ulcerative colitis can respond well to prolonged and frequent treatment, but is is essential to prioritise main aims of the treatment, formulate a clear plan and stick with it, even if it seems counter intuitive (ie using a strong heat clearing strategy in a patient who appears so weak). From your brief description, even though she appears to have elements of deficiency, it sounds as though the Damp Heat (with dominant Heat) components are prominent. Tonification and astringing are likely to be counterproductive as the Heat must be cleared as the priority. There are approaches that incorporate elements of qi and blood support while vigourously eliminating pathogens, but selection of the correct path need a clearer picture. Even with the correct approach, keep in mind that prednisone slows treatment down, as it appears to block the effects of acupuncture and herbs. What other features does she have? Was there an initiating event?. Have you palpated her abdomen; does she have pain, bloating, mucus, night sweats, sleep disturbances etc. Will , juliej8@a... wrote: > Dear Group: > > Can anyone give their experience on ulcerative colitis? Prognosis? Following > is a description of the case. > > My patient is a 32-year old female with a 2-year history of " pan colitis " > (entire colon is involved) and bloody stools 7-10 times a day. She has been > on Prednisone of various doses for over a year, and when she goes below 10 > mg/day, her situation is unmanageable. She has had to be hospitalized twice > and given blood transfusions. She tried a macobiotic diet (some best seller > on UC) for 5 months with virtually no change. She was spending all her time > cooking and going to the bathroom. She will not -- cannot -- do major dietary > changes just now. She has little appetite and is lucky to keep anything in. > > Tongue: thick yellow coat in back 1/2; red tongue body, red spots showing > through even in the coated areas; pulse is wiry and thready; body is thin and > hair is dry. In TCM Dx she appears to have damp heat toxin but is also > extremely weak, having lost a lot of weight and fluids. Any experience in > this area? She wants to come 3x a week for 6 weeks to avoid surgery. > > The formula I gave her for 2 weeks to stop the leakage consisted of decoction > of: Rou Dou Kou, Bai Zhu, He Zi, Ren Shen, Mu Xiang, Jin Ying Zi, Rou Gui, > Gan Cao, Bai Shao, Huang Qi and Sheng Ma. > > I needled Du 20, St 25, Ren 12, St 37, LI 11 and 4, Liv 3 > > Please give advice or ask questions. > > Julie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 26, 2001 Report Share Posted October 26, 2001 I often find that the most severecases require the gentlest handling >>>I Agree. - yulong Friday, October 26, 2001 11:23 AM Re:ulcerative colitis Julie,> The best approach is to give clearing damp heat by enema This is not meant as advice on your patient, who seems to be in fairly desparate condition.But I wanted to point out that enemas mayor may not be a good approach to treatingsuch conditions. I know several traditionalChinese doctors who caution against irrigatingthe bowels. I often find that the most severecases require the gentlest handling.Sometimes, a body in utter imbalance canbe restored to relative harmony with agentle nudge...if you find out just whatneeds to be nudged.KenChinese Herbal Medicine, a voluntary organization of licensed healthcare practitioners, matriculated students and postgraduate academics specializing in Chinese Herbal Medicine, provides a variety of professional services, including board approved online continuing education. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 26, 2001 Report Share Posted October 26, 2001 Try and make sure that the herbs you use are charred >>>Not for long use however Alon - Al Stone Friday, October 26, 2001 12:57 PM Re: Re:ulcerative colitis You might consider some Huai Hua San too. Stops bleeding from the LIdue to heat toxin. I've used it and am very pleased with how well it works.Try and make sure that the herbs you use are charred as is appropriateto stop bleeding. Bensky (pg 338) doesn't mention this, but other books do.-al.juliej8 wrote:> > Dear Group:> > Can anyone give their experience on ulcerative colitis? Prognosis? Following> is a description of the case.> > My patient is a 32-year old female with a 2-year history of "pan colitis"> (entire colon is involved) and bloody stools 7-10 times a day. She has been> on Prednisone of various doses for over a year, and when she goes below 10> mg/day, her situation is unmanageable. She has had to be hospitalized twice> and given blood transfusions. She tried a macobiotic diet (some best seller> on UC) for 5 months with virtually no change. She was spending all her time> cooking and going to the bathroom. She will not -- cannot -- do major dietary> changes just now. She has little appetite and is lucky to keep anything in.> > Tongue: thick yellow coat in back 1/2; red tongue body, red spots showing> through even in the coated areas; pulse is wiry and thready; body is thin and> hair is dry. In TCM Dx she appears to have damp heat toxin but is also> extremely weak, having lost a lot of weight and fluids. Any experience in> this area? She wants to come 3x a week for 6 weeks to avoid surgery.> > The formula I gave her for 2 weeks to stop the leakage consisted of decoction> of: Rou Dou Kou, Bai Zhu, He Zi, Ren Shen, Mu Xiang, Jin Ying Zi, Rou Gui,> Gan Cao, Bai Shao, Huang Qi and Sheng Ma.> > I needled Du 20, St 25, Ren 12, St 37, LI 11 and 4, Liv 3> > Please give advice or ask questions.> > Julie> > Chinese Herbal Medicine, a voluntary organization of licensed healthcare practitioners, matriculated students and postgraduate academics specializing in Chinese Herbal Medicine, provides a variety of professional services, including board approved online continuing education.> > http://www..org> > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 26, 2001 Report Share Posted October 26, 2001 Hi,Julie, Your patient is not easy to cure.She need take care very carefully.Please don't do any enema to her because she is not the case who fit enema.(Unless she is consitipation without any other symptoms.) I recommand a good doctor who is doing practice in LA(Chinese or Taiwanese,I don't know.He immigrant to US recently) now.I don't know him.I read one of his book (pule diagnosis,an tremedos one of pule diagnosis)before in Taiwan, therefore I know he is a wonderful and excellent TCM doctor. Maybe you can try to consult him or ask him questions for your case. I get his information from internet. Here it is.Has a nice weekend.Best wishes for you patient. Jean Dr.Chang Wei-Yen address:18168 COLIMA RD. ROWLAND HEIGHTS CALIFORNIA 91748 TEL: 626-839-3500 fax¡G626-810-1572 and 626-839-3510 E-Mail: cwyx3345 internet: www.sino-medicine.com/wechang ===== -------------------------------- < ¨C¤Ñ³£ ©_¼¯ > www..tw Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 27, 2001 Report Share Posted October 27, 2001 In a message dated 10/26/01 11:52:58 PM Pacific Daylight Time, wbm40 writes: << What other features does she have? Was there an initiating event?. Have you palpated her abdomen; does she have pain, bloating, mucus, night sweats, sleep disturbances etc. Will >> Dear Will and Group, thank you for the suggestions. Can someone please explain exactly how a retention enema is administered? What makes it stay " retained " ? How often should it be given? Should the formula be the same strength that I would give orally or stronger? As for other features, no night sweats, no sleep disturbances. Only extreme weakness, depression, cramps and frequent stools. Doctor could not examine beyond a certain point in the colon because it was so inflamed and swollen, there was a risk of perforation. To palpation, abdomen is flat, tight, tender and when I put needles there, immediately dark red spots appear around the needles. There was not an initiating event. The disease came on gradually around age 30, during a time of some stress over exams...but nothing momentous. Julie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 27, 2001 Report Share Posted October 27, 2001 At 1:35 PM +0800 10/27/01, ?Jeansu wrote: >She need take care >very carefully.Please don't do any enema to her >because she is not the case who fit enema.(Unless >she is consitipation without any other symptoms.) -- I'm not sure about this. A 'retention enema' can be a much more effective way of reducing local inflammation in the colon than oral ingestion, because the herbs have direct contact with the inflamed tissue (the enema will probably only reach the distal colon, so it won't directly contact all the inflamed tissue in this case). It also strikes me as being safer, because in a deficient patient (there is definitely underlying deficiency, probably of both spleen and kidney), you are using cold bitter herbs locally where they are needed, without ingesting them through the stomach. I have used this technique in my practice with success, and I know that it is used in hospitals in China. I like Al Stone's suggestion of huai hua san - you may want to adjust. You might also suggest she drink electrolyte drinks a couple of times a day to protect the fluids, as well as your oral formula. Rory -- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 27, 2001 Report Share Posted October 27, 2001 I agree with Rory, having had some experience with this method...retention enemas given carefully in small volume can be very beneficial, accelerate progress and are generally well tolerated. Will , Rory Kerr <rorykerr@w...> wrote: > At 1:35 PM +0800 10/27/01, ?Jeansu wrote: > >She need take care > >very carefully.Please don't do any enema to her > >because she is not the case who fit enema.(Unless > >she is consitipation without any other symptoms.) > -- > > I'm not sure about this. A 'retention enema' can be a much more > effective way of reducing local inflammation in the colon than oral > ingestion, because the herbs have direct contact with the inflamed > tissue (the enema will probably only reach the distal colon, so it > won't directly contact all the inflamed tissue in this case). It also > strikes me as being safer, because in a deficient patient (there is > definitely underlying deficiency, probably of both spleen and > kidney), you are using cold bitter herbs locally where they are > needed, without ingesting them through the stomach. I have used this > technique in my practice with success, and I know that it is used in > hospitals in China. > > I like Al Stone's suggestion of huai hua san - you may want to adjust. > > You might also suggest she drink electrolyte drinks a couple of times > a day to protect the fluids, as well as your oral formula. > > Rory > -- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 27, 2001 Report Share Posted October 27, 2001 Rory, I believe that you are correct in this, not only from experience, but also from several Chinese medical journal articles that I've seen over the years. Using very cold herbs in an enema form does seem to circumvent any SP weakening digestive damage. Additionally the patient almost always immediately feels the difference. MarkReese Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 27, 2001 Report Share Posted October 27, 2001 Thank you Rory. But what makes it a " retention " enema? Why doesn't the fluid just come out again taking stool with it and possibly further weakening her? By the way, thank you all for your advice. Julie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 27, 2001 Report Share Posted October 27, 2001 Alon Can you tell the name of the Canton patent formula for ulcerative colitis? M.b. you know what is inside? Yuri --- ALON MARCUS <alonmarcus wrote: > The best approach is to give clearing damp heat by > enema and tonification by mouth. There is a patent > formula in canton that is coated so that the > tofiying herbs are released in stomach and clear > heat in intestines > Alon > Make a great connection at Personals. http://personals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 27, 2001 Report Share Posted October 27, 2001 Mark, Additionally the patient almost always > immediately feels the difference. > Certainly giving someone an enema is bound to result in them feeling the difference. And no doubt there can be benefit derived from what is essentially the external application of medicinal formulas to the epithelium of the colon, particularly in cases where the patient's condition suggests that the problem is best addressed through such a topical approach. But there are cautions and even dangers to be alert to when irrigating the bowels. I have seen people in a weakened state reduced to utter collapse through the aggressive application of enemas. And in a case such as Julie describes in which the entire intenstine is affected with chronic inflammation, I wonder how extensive the benefit of washing the lower extremity of it would be. Again, I'm not in a position to advise one way or the other with respect to Julie's patient. But when assessing the risk/benefit ratio of any therapy, one ought not to minimize the former in favor of the latter. And I don't think it's prudent for people to consider enemas as a panacea, despite the fact that the difference they cause is most definitely and immediately felt. Ken Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 27, 2001 Report Share Posted October 27, 2001 Well, all I can go by is published studies and my own experience. I have seen quite a bit of ulcerative colitis over the years and rarely have not had considerable success with them. I would be interested in anyone's negative experience with the use of herbal retention enemas for this purpose since I haven't had any. Many of my past clients have already used retention enemas with steroids from their MD and so are familiar with the procedure. Mark Reese Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 27, 2001 Report Share Posted October 27, 2001 I'm wondering whether mixing the powdered herbs (preferably powdered extracts) with cocoa butter and making a thin, rather stiff suppository might be less stimulating than a retention enema and more effective. I remember when I lived in Italy as a teen that medications were most commonly given as suppositories and were very effective (although if there is too much cocoa butter you could lose dosage by inducing a laxative response.) Karen Vaughan CreationsGarden *************************************** Email advice is not a substitute for medical treatment. " Man is always worse than most people suspect, but also generally better than most people dream. " --Reinhold Niebuhr ______________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 27, 2001 Report Share Posted October 27, 2001 At 5:00 PM +0000 10/27/01, yulong wrote: >But there are cautions and even dangers >to be alert to when irrigating the bowels. >I have seen people in a weakened state >reduced to utter collapse through the >aggressive application of enemas. > >And in a case such as Julie describes >in which the entire intenstine is affected >with chronic inflammation, I wonder how >extensive the benefit of washing the lower >extremity of it would be. -- I agree one should be cautious. However, in Julie's patient she has been reduced to collapse on at least two occasions by the absence of effective treatment. Somehow the treatment, Prednisone, which is usually effective in getting the acute symptoms under control, is not touching the problem. She is also facing surgery to remove her colon if this continues too much longer. I am not suggesting 'aggressive enemas', and enemas are not by nature aggressive unless they are aggressively applied. The danger to this patient seems to me to be in not controlling her disease and symptoms, which after this length of time are progressively injuring her kidney yang qi (as may be the Prednisone). That is serious in a person so young, who then has to live with the consequences for the rest of her life. Note also that Julie said the patient's colon was inflamed, not her whole intestine. As I said in my previous post, the enema may not reach the whole of her colon, but at least it may help with the distal third, which is most likely the main culprit here. Rory -- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 27, 2001 Report Share Posted October 27, 2001 At 12:48 PM -0400 10/27/01, juliej8 wrote: >Can someone please >explain exactly how a retention enema is administered? What makes it stay > " retained " ? How often should it be given? Should the formula be the same >strength that I would give orally or stronger? -- You can get enema bulbs at a pharmacy, Use only a small quantity of fluid, and if necessary lie on left side for a short while after administration, so that the fluid goes to the descending colon. I suggest having your patient do it twice a day (morning and evening) until the symptoms improve, then once a day in the evening. until she is clearly better. I would start off with normal strength - I haven't tried more concentrated; maybe someone else on the list has. Rory -- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 27, 2001 Report Share Posted October 27, 2001 At 4:40 PM -0400 10/27/01, juliej8 wrote: >Thank you Rory. But what makes it a " retention " enema? Why doesn't the fluid >just come out again taking stool with it and possibly further weakening her? -- A small quantity of fluid should not stimulate peristalsis once the initial impulse has passed. If there is an initial impulse, the patient can simple control it, but usually lying on the back or left side will allow the fluid to quickly drain upstream and away from the anus. Rory -- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 27, 2001 Report Share Posted October 27, 2001 Dear Group: I think I can provide answers you need in this case. I must say, according to TCM theory, this case is under a difficult (around 65-70%,she is very weak now) conditions. Therefore, I would like to suggest another mentor to help Julie to treat this case because this case can¡¦t be easy to cure by provide email advice only. (Hi,Julie, if Dr. Chang would like to help you to deal with this patient, it is the luck for both of you and your Patient ,I guess. You can learn more from him. At least he is an excellent experienced TCM doctor, he treat patient in real TCM way as my understanding.) First, let us go back to the case. After that, I will explain why we can¡¦t use enema in this case and how/why mainland use the retaintion-enema curing. Patient¡¦s problem: 1.a 2-year history of " pan colitis " (entire colon is involved) and 2.bloody stools 7-10 times a day. (blood lose very much,anemia) 3.She has been on Prednisone of various doses for over a year, and when she goes below 10 mg/day, her situation is unmanageable. (This is another big problem,too. 4.She has had to be hospitalized twice and given blood transfusions.(Anemia or blood very insufficiency.) 5.She tried a macobiotic diet (some best seller on UC) for 5 months with virtually no change. (another big problem, too. Because according to TCM theory, The infection is not because of bacteria, it is because of the damp heat (or the stress)make the intestine (colon) health condition changed and bacterium like to immigrat to the wonderland. So, macobiotic diet(could you explain what is this?) can never kill the germ,(You killed A ,B will move in), but weak the immune system 6.She was spending all her time cooking and going to the bathroom (painful, poor girl). 7.She will not -- cannot -- do major dietary changes just now. She has little appetite and is lucky to keep anything in.(spleen and stomach function is very weak now). Tongue: thick yellow coat in back 1/2; red tongue body(damp heat in qi4,Yin-fen), red spots showing through even in the coated areas;(according win-bin, heat are enter between Qi4-Fen and Yin-fen, and yin-fen gain more. pulse is wiry and thready ;(cold inside because lose of blood and male function of spleen ,intestine, colon).How about the speed of the pulse? body is thin and hair is dry.(Qi4-blood insufficiency very much, mal-nutrition) In TCM Dx she appears to have damp heat toxin but is also extremely weak, having lost a lot of weight and fluids. Any experience in this area? She wants to come 3x a week for 6 weeks to avoid surgery. (Try to consult Dr. Chang, and good luck. J) The formula I gave her for 2 weeks to stop the leakage consisted of decoction of: Rou Dou Kou, Bai Zhu, He Zi, Ren Shen, Mu Xiang, Jin Ying Zi, Rou Gui, Gan Cao, Bai Shao, Huang Qi and Sheng Ma. I needled Du 20, St 25, Ren 12, St 37, LI 11 and 4, Liv 3 (acupuncture in this case seems not quite work unless you can provide her Qi4 through needle(Ha! Please don¡¦t get mad at my ¡§Ha! Ha!¡¨ to much because it is simply means I feel it is funny, that¡¦s all.) I check the textbook translate from Mainland China(We use different Chinese word because chairman Mao change it) the best herbal formula for your patient is: Zhi3-Shi2 Dao Zhi4 Tang (Shi, Yi-Ren provided ,and he said this is come from Lee, Dong-Huan, master Lee changed some herbs of this formula) And add some other herbals according to the patient¡¦s condition. For example: blood stool,.and so on. The herbal will be very considered.This formula is for the pan-colitis. Others, you have to adjust her blood condition(anemia, mal-nutrition condition). damp heat in spleen and intestine¡K.. Therefore, this is a patient need patient and careful. I will translate a few words form the china textbooks to explain.Why we can¡¦t do enema in this case. (If my translation is not good, please forgive me, Ha!) If patient¡¦s tongue¡¦s coating is thick and white and feel uncomfortable while diarrhea and release stool. We don¡¦t use gong-Xia4(like enema or Da-cheng2-qi4-tang) because damp heat hurt middle burner-yang very much, if you us enema or strong gong-xia4 to treat the patient, patient will keeping diarrhea and never stop. You need to pay attention to the middle burner¡Vyang very much and strengthen it, slowing go down (use herbal to create diarrhea situation slowly and gently)the stool. Why Mainland China¡¦s doctor prefer to use retaintion enema, 1.because it is western style.(Ha! Fly iron ship in the sky). 2.maybe because of Lung and colon has connection in TCM. And, 3.colon happened to be an organ who suck water as well asherbal formula (according the inventor¡¦s thinking process, I guess, Ha!). >I like Al Stone's suggestion of huai hua san - you may want to adjust. I didn¡¦t see this formula fit to this patient in textbook. But, it does not mean It can¡¦t be work because I didn¡¦t check the huai hua san formula. Any questions? (this is an occupational disease when you play the role of teacher more than ten years. Haa!) Have a nice weekend. Jean ===== -------------------------------- < ¨C¤Ñ³£ ©_¼¯ > www..tw Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 28, 2001 Report Share Posted October 28, 2001 Dear Jean, thank you for your help. Your Dr. Chang is not very close by even though we are all in the Los Angeles area. I think I will consult with another very well known herbalist who is halfway between the patient and me. Because of her bowel urgency, she cannot be on the road driving for more than an hour. With the acupuncture, I was hoping to relieve pain and spasm, which seems to be helping a little. I appreciate all your advice. Julie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 28, 2001 Report Share Posted October 28, 2001 And I don't think it's prudent for peopleto consider enemas as a panacea, despitethe fact that the difference they causeis most definitely and immediately felt.>>>>I do think you will any "panacea" for such a patient. Caution is always warranted either with animas or any other treatment. Anemas can be very gentle or very extreme depending on technique etc. If you know somebody in the south of China you may want to find the entericaly coated tablet for colitis. They work quite well in controlling symptoms, however I lost all my contacts Alon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 28, 2001 Report Share Posted October 28, 2001 The danger to this patient seems to me to be in not controlling her disease and symptoms, >>>Absolutely correct Alon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 28, 2001 Report Share Posted October 28, 2001 In a message dated 10/28/01 6:48:12 PM Pacific Standard Time, jeansu009 writes: << Of course,I believed that you are also an well trained and experienced TCM doctor,too.Most diagnosis you did are quite correct. But,In both China and Taiwan, we know that there will always some one got different experience then ourself.Sometimes,second opinion is quite volue very much. Jean >> Jean, and Group: Oh, by all means, I welcome all second, third, fourth and ALL opinions on this case, and I will keep you posted. At the moment, she is well controlled with a higher dose of Prednisone, but she wants to get off it and eventually wants to get pregnant again. Julie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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