tuina and chiropractic : education analysis

[Guest guest]

Here is an article on the history of tuina:

http://acupuncture.com/qigong_tuina/tuinahistory.htm

 

Where ever bone manipulation came from, if it works it works.

But, how can qualified Chinese medicine doctors not practice something that

was probably developed even before acupuncture?

 

Thousands of years of war and taking care of soldiers on the battlefield :

bone setting is part of the curriculum for martial artists in the higher

ranks; martial arts itself is the " soft " version of the original martial

training for war. Surgery was also a component in all of this, as someone

else also stated. In the Nei jing all of the organs and bowels are

documented by weight and length, as Deke Kendall points out, as well.

 

I think that if we have the same educational hours as D.Cs (4200 +), and

pass a board certified exam in " bone setting aka subluxation correcting " ,

that this should be added to our scope of practice. The flip side to that

is that D.Cs currently can practice acupuncture in most states without any

further training and without any historical lineage to pull from.

 

So the question is how many more hours would a DAOM need in " bone setting "

for lack of a better word at this time,

to become qualified to sit for the board certified exam ?

 

This is a comparison from the Southern California University of Health

Sciences (Whittier, CA) curriculum:

Total 4815 hours (4200 hours is required from the accreditation committee).

 

http://www.scuhs.edu/dc_schedule.aspx

 

These are the classes which are specifically chiropractic/ clinical/ x-ray

analysis:

Chiropractic procedures total : 585 hours

Radiographic anatomy + interpretation = 375 hours

Clinic internship : 1260 hours

Total: 2220 hours

 

This is a comparison of the strictly acupuncture (not herbal) hours from the

American College of TCM in SF CA:

Total 3087 hours (3000 hours is required in CA)

www.actcm.edu

 

TCM Theory / Diagnosis total : 242 hours

Meridian points/ theory : 144 hours

Acupuncture technique: 110 hours

Acupuncture treatment for disease/ internal medicine: 198 hours

Clinic: 920 hours

Total: 1614 hours

 

So in fairness, should a DAOM have to complete the 2220 chiropractic hours

and

a DC have to complete the 1614 acupuncture hours to practice each other's

trade ?

 

K.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

On Sun, Jul 20, 2008 at 2:57 PM, Turiya Hill <turiya wrote:

 

> Listen. ..Joint manipulation/adjustment/whatever you choose to call it

> has been a part of the manual healing medicines of all traditional cultures

> from time immemorial. Do you dispute this?

>

> -

> Brian J. Harasha, D.C.

> To:

Chinese Medicine <Chinese Medicine%40yaho\

ogroups.com>

> Sunday, July 20, 2008 2:49 PM

> tuina and chiropractic

>

> From a chiropractor - I believe bonesetting, tuina, chiropractic, etc. all

> have been recognized as valuable modalities for centuries. I think the

> Palmer's knew about it and after the famous deaf janitor story it seemed

> right in Iowa at the time to expand on the theories. More western

> terminology was used, more anatomy investigated, more precision incorporated

> and soon people really started seeing what could be done by spinal

> manipulation. This is when chiropractic became an art, science and

> philosophy. It has a basis in the ancient methods but expanded on them with

> western thought. Now they have a clear picture of the intricate anatomy of

> nerves, a clearer idea of what happens to the nervous system and then the

> body before and after manipulations and more documentation tracking what

> happens to people who get or do not get adjustments over time (a health

> benefit or not).

> By the way - D.D. Palmer (magnetic healer, teacher, philosopher)

> 'discovered' it with the janitor, B.J. Palmer (the very charismatic and

> controversial one) developed it, made it a strong institution and Daniel

> Palmer came next and almost lost the whole thing. B.J. was an interesting

> man and the stuff they do not teach in chiro. school is his spiritual

> explorations that involved much time in the East.

>

>

[Guest guest]

How about a good tui na course? Since manipulation is part of tui na

what are we talking about? do you want to base any of your

manipulation on X-ray? And what do we conceder manipulation, does one

must cavitate the joint to qualify as manipulation? If you do

vigorous massage and a rib cracks is that a manipulation? What we are

dealing with is lingo and how professions protect their turf. I

suggest we should talk in terms of tui na and avoid the controversies.

 

 

 

400 29th St. Suite 419

Oakland Ca 94609

 

 

 

alonmarcus

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Alon

 

From 1999 through 2001 the Florida Board of Acupuncture, at the suggestion

of one of the associations run by experienced activists, promulgated

administrative rules which covered many areas as seen below.

 

When the Dieticians jumped out against language pertaining to what they

considered their domain, seven clarifying words were added which resolved the

turf problem. This language was fashioned in other areas of potential overlap.

 

64B1-4.009, FAC Dietary Guidelines

Dietary guidelines shall include nutritional counseling as used in

acupuncture and oriental medicine and the administration, prescription, and/or

recommendation of nutritional supplements to promote, maintain, and restore

health

and to prevent disease.

 

64B1-4.005 Orient6al Massage.

Oriental massage includes traditional Chinese and modern oriental medical

techniques which shall include: manual and mechanical stimulation of points,

meridians, channels, collaterals, and ah-shi points; all forms of oriental

bodywork including acupressure, amma, anmo, guasha, hara, niusha, reiki,

reflexology, shiatsu, tuina, traction and counter traction, vibration, and other

neuro-muscular, physical and physio-therapeutic techniques used in acupuncture

and oriental medicine for the promotion, maintenance and restoration of health

and the prevention of disease.

 

The key operative words were " as used in acupuncture and modern oriental

medicine " .

 

Richard

 

_64B1-4.0015 _

(https://www.flrules.org/gateway/RuleNo.asp?ID=64B1-4.0015) Supervised Clinical

Experience Defined

(https://www.flrules.org/gateway/readFile.asp?sid=0 & type=1 & tid=2362549 & file=64B1\

-4.0015.doc) 2/26/2001

_64B1-4.004 _ (https://www.flrules.org/gateway/RuleNo.asp?ID=64B1-4.004) Herbal

Therapies

(https://www.flrules.org/gateway/readFile.asp?sid=0 & type=1 & tid=2362646 & file=64B1\

-4.004.doc) 12/24/2000 _64B1-4.005 _

(https://www.flrules.org/gateway/RuleNo.asp?ID=64B1-4.005) Oriental Massage

(https://www.flrules.org/gateway/readFile.asp?sid=0 & type=1 & tid=2362743 & file=64B1\

-4.005.doc) 12/24/2000

_64B1-4.006 _ (https://www.flrules.org/gateway/RuleNo.asp?ID=64B1-4.006) Qi

Gong

(https://www.flrules.org/gateway/readFile.asp?sid=0 & type=1 & tid=2362840 & file=64

B1-4.006.doc) 12/24/2000 _64B1-4.007 _

(https://www.flrules.org/gateway/RuleNo.asp?ID=64B1-4.007) Electroacupuncture

(https://www.flrules.org/gateway/readFile.asp?sid=0 & type=1 & tid=2362937 & file=64B1\

-4.007.doc) 12/24/2000

_64B1-4.008 _ (https://www.flrules.org/gateway/RuleNo.asp?ID=64B1-4.008)

Adjunctive

Therapies

(https://www.flrules.org/gateway/readFile.asp?sid=0 & type=1 & tid=2363034 & file=64B1\

-4.008.doc) 12/24/2000 _64B1-4.009 _

(https://www.flrules.org/gateway/RuleNo.asp?ID=64B1-4.009) Dietary Guidelines

(https://www.flrules.org/gateway/readFile.asp?sid=0 & type=1 & tid=2363131 & file=64B1\

-4.009.doc)

12/24/2000 _64B1-4.010 _

(https://www.flrules.org/gateway/RuleNo.asp?ID=64B1-4.010)

Traditional Chinese Medical Concepts, Modern Oriental Medical Techniques

(https://www.flrules.org/gateway/readFile.asp?sid=0 & type=1 & tid=2363228 & file=64B1\

-4.

010.doc) 11/6/2001 _64B1-4.011 _

(https://www.flrules.org/gateway/RuleNo.asp?ID=64B1-4.011) Diagnostic

Techniques

(https://www.flrules.org/gateway/readFile.asp?sid=0 & type=1 & tid=2363325 & file=64B1\

-4.011.doc) 11/6/2001 _64B1-4.012

_ (https://www.flrules.org/gateway/RuleNo.asp?ID=64B1-4.012) Acupoint

Injection Therapies

(https://www.flrules.org/gateway/readFile.asp?sid=0 & type=1 & tid=2363422 & file=64B1\

-4.012.doc) 2/18/2001

 

 

 

 

 

In a message dated 7/21/2008 10:22:53 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,

alonmarcus writes:

 

How about a good tui na course? Since manipulation is part of tui na

what are we talking about? do you want to base any of your

manipulation on X-ray? And what do we conceder manipulation, does one

must cavitate the joint to qualify as manipulation? If you do

vigorous massage and a rib cracks is that a manipulation? What we are

dealing with is lingo and how professions protect their turf. I

suggest we should talk in terms of tui na and avoid the controversies.

 

Alon Marcus DOM

 

 

 

 

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[Guest guest]

Richard

Great job with the lingo and i wish all other states follow it

alon