Want to be a DC or MD ? RE: Donald

[Guest guest]

Donald,

Although the undergraduate requirements depend state by state, here are the

Chiro specs based on the US dept of Labor and also stated by the ACA

(American Chiropractic Association)

http://www.bls.gov/oco/ocos071.htm

 

It may have been 3600 hours in the past, it is 4200 hours now.

" All boards require the completion of a 4-year program at an accredited

chiropractic college leading to the Doctor of Chiropractic degree. "

 

*Education and training.* In 2007, 16 chiropractic programs and 2

chiropractic institutions in the United States were accredited by the

Council on Chiropractic Education. Applicants must have at least 90 semester

hours of undergraduate study leading toward a bachelor�s degree, including

courses in English, the social sciences or humanities, organic and inorganic

chemistry, biology, physics, and psychology. Many applicants have a

bachelor�s degree, which may eventually become the minimum entry

requirement. Several chiropractic colleges offer prechiropractic study, as

well as a bachelor�s degree program. Recognition of prechiropractic

education offered by chiropractic colleges varies among the States.

 

Chiropractic programs require a minimum of 4,200 hours of combined

classroom, laboratory, and clinical experience. During the first 2 years,

most chiropractic programs emphasize classroom and laboratory work in

sciences such as anatomy, physiology, public health, microbiology,

pathology, and biochemistry. The last 2 years focus on courses in

manipulation and spinal adjustment and provide clinical experience in

physical and laboratory diagnosis, neurology, orthopedics, geriatrics,

physiotherapy, and nutrition. Chiropractic programs and institutions grant

the degree of Doctor of Chiropractic.

 

Chiropractic colleges also offer postdoctoral training in orthopedics,

neurology, sports injuries, nutrition, rehabilitation, radiology, industrial

consulting, family practice, pediatrics, and applied chiropractic sciences.

Once such training is complete, chiropractors may take specialty exams

leading to �diplomate� status in a given specialty. Exams are administered

by specialty chiropractic associations.

 

*Licensure.* All States and the District of Columbia regulate the practice

of chiropractic and grant licenses to chiropractors who meet the educational

and examination requirements established by the State. Chiropractors can

practice only in States where they are licensed. Some States have agreements

permitting chiropractors licensed in one State to obtain a license in

another without further examination, provided that their educational,

examination, and practice credentials meet State specifications.

 

Most State licensing boards require at least 2 years of undergraduate

education, but an increasing number are requiring a 4-year bachelor�s

degree. All boards require the completion of a 4-year program at an

accredited chiropractic college leading to the Doctor of Chiropractic

degree.

 

For licensure, most State boards recognize either all or part of the

four-part test administered by the National Board of Chiropractic Examiners.

State examinations may supplement the National Board tests, depending on

State requirements. All States except New Jersey require the completion of a

specified number of hours of continuing education each year in order to

maintain licensure. Chiropractic associations and accredited chiropractic

programs and institutions offer continuing education programs.

 

Here are the specs for the Allopathic/Osteopathic (MD, DO) route:

http://www.bls.gov/oco/ocos074.htm

 

*Education and training.* Formal education and training requirements for

physicians are among the most demanding of any occupation—4 years of

undergraduate school, 4 years of medical school, and 3 to 8 years of

internship and residency, depending on the specialty selected. A few medical

schools offer combined undergraduate and medical school programs that last 6

years rather than the customary 8 years.

 

Premedical students must complete undergraduate work in physics, biology,

mathematics, English, and inorganic and organic chemistry. Students also

take courses in the humanities and the social sciences. Some students

volunteer at local hospitals or clinics to gain practical experience in the

health professions.

 

The minimum educational requirement for entry into medical school is 3 years

of college; most applicants, however, have at least a bachelor�s degree, and

many have advanced degrees. There are 146 medical schools in the United

States—126 teach allopathic medicine and award a Doctor of Medicine (M.D.)

degree; 20 teach osteopathic medicine and award the Doctor of Osteopathic

Medicine (D.O.) degree.

 

Acceptance to medical school is highly competitive. Applicants must submit

transcripts, scores from the Medical College Admission Test, and letters of

recommendation. Schools also consider an applicant�s character, personality,

leadership qualities, and participation in extracurricular activities. Most

schools require an interview with members of the admissions committee.

 

Students spend most of the first 2 years of medical school in laboratories

and classrooms, taking courses such as anatomy, biochemistry, physiology,

pharmacology, psychology, microbiology, pathology, medical ethics, and laws

governing medicine. They also learn to take medical histories, examine

patients, and diagnose illnesses. During their last 2 years, students work

with patients under the supervision of experienced physicians in hospitals

and clinics, learning acute, chronic, preventive, and rehabilitative care.

Through rotations in internal medicine, family practice, obstetrics and

gynecology, pediatrics, psychiatry, and surgery, they gain experience in the

diagnosis and treatment of illness.

 

Following medical school, almost all M.D.s enter a residency—graduate

medical education in a specialty that takes the form of paid on-the-job

training, usually in a hospital. Most D.O.s serve a 12-month rotating

internship after graduation and before entering a residency, which may last

2 to 6 years.

 

A physician�s training is costly. According to the Association of American

Medical Colleges, in 2004 more than 80 percent of medical school graduates

were in debt for educational expenses.

 

*Licensure and certification.* All States, the District of Columbia, and

U.S. territories license physicians. To be licensed, physicians must

graduate from an accredited medical school, pass a licensing examination,

and complete 1 to 7 years of graduate medical education. Although physicians

licensed in one State usually can get a license to practice in another

without further examination, some States limit reciprocity. Graduates of

foreign medical schools generally can qualify for licensure after passing an

examination and completing a U.S. residency.

 

M.D.s and D.O.s seeking board certification in a specialty may spend up to 7

years in residency training, depending on the specialty. A final examination

immediately after residency or after 1 or 2 years of practice also is

necessary for certification by a member board of the American Board of

Medical Specialists (ABMS) or the American Osteopathic Association (AOA).

The ABMS represents 24 boards related to medical specialties ranging from

allergy and immunology to urology. The AOA has approved 18 specialty boards,

ranging from anesthesiology to surgery. For certification in a subspecialty,

physicians usually need another 1 to 2 years of residency.

K.

 

 

 

 

 

 

On Wed, Jul 16, 2008 at 2:37 PM, Donald Snow <don83407 wrote:

 

>

> Looks to me like this doctor has pretty good documentation and should give

> some folks cause for " lock jaw. " There is more to this. For instance, one

> may get a 4 or 6 year medical degree from overseas (ie. China, Europe, and

> South America) and come here and challenge the M.D. licensing exam and

> actually be licensed as an MD here in the states.

>

> Also, to qualify to medical school here in the U.S. the requirement is an

> associate degree, although most to have a B.S. in pre-med, though it's not

> required. Many Chiros I know only have 3,600 hours post-grad and an

> associate degree. Do not be mis-led by inflated and false educational

> requirements.

>

> I think we should be able to challenge the M.D. exam and if we can pass,

> shouldn't we be able to practice too?

>

> Donald J. Snow, DAOM, MPH, L.Ac.

>

>

>

>

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--

aka Mu bong Lim

Father of Bhakti

 

The Four Reliances:

Do not rely upon the individual, but rely upon the teaching.

As far as teachings go, do not rely upon the words alone, but rely upon the

meaning that underlies them.

Regarding the meaning, do not rely upon the provisional meaning alone, but

rely upon the definitive meaning.

And regarding the definitive meaning, do not rely upon ordinary

consciousness, but rely upon wisdom awareness.

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

In all of these statistics I don't see any oriental medical training, although I

see western medical training in our curriculum. I was a P.A. in another life

and now most PAs have a Master's and some even a Doctorate degree. That does

not make them an MD. An MD is a political and licensing title. Most Oriental

Medicine practitioners and Doctors can run clinical circles around allopathic

medicine. That's why you don't see L.Ac's scrambling to add allopathic and

chiro to their bag of modalities; ours is a complete medicine. If allopathic

and chiropractic were complete, they would not be scrambling to add acupuncture

and OM to their skill set.

 

I, for one, would put my complete clinical medicine against any chiro or

allopath and my patient will actually get better while theirs do not. I know

this because I was a practicing military PA for over 20years and I know what

allopathic can do what OM can do. However, allopathic medicine shines in the

emergency care arena. That being said, we could be trained in emergency

medicine and surgery just as any other human being can. But, the allopathic

medical society is a closed and protected society loaded with propaganda.

 

They can think they are " better " than we are all they want. But our outcomes

prove who the better is. The proof is in the taste of the pudding, not in what

you tell me it tastes like.

 

Don Snow, DAOM, MPH, L.Ac

 

 

 

: johnkokko:

Wed, 16 Jul 2008 15:44:47 -0700Want to be a DC or MD ? RE: Donald

 

 

 

 

Donald,Although the undergraduate requirements depend state by state, here are

theChiro specs based on the US dept of Labor and also stated by the ACA(American

Chiropractic Association)http://www.bls.gov/oco/ocos071.htmIt may have been 3600

hours in the past, it is 4200 hours now. " All boards require the completion of a

4-year program at an accreditedchiropractic college leading to the Doctor of

Chiropractic degree. " *Education and training.* In 2007, 16 chiropractic programs

and 2chiropractic institutions in the United States were accredited by

theCouncil on Chiropractic Education. Applicants must have at least 90

semesterhours of undergraduate study leading toward a bachelor�s degree,

includingcourses in English, the social sciences or humanities, organic and

inorganicchemistry, biology, physics, and psychology. Many applicants have

abachelor�s degree, which may eventually become the minimum entryrequirement.

Several chiropractic colleges offer prechiropractic study, aswell as a

bachelor�s degree program. Recognition of prechiropracticeducation offered by

chiropractic colleges varies among the States.Chiropractic programs require a

minimum of 4,200 hours of combinedclassroom, laboratory, and clinical

experience. During the first 2 years,most chiropractic programs emphasize

classroom and laboratory work insciences such as anatomy, physiology, public

health, microbiology,pathology, and biochemistry. The last 2 years focus on

courses inmanipulation and spinal adjustment and provide clinical experience

inphysical and laboratory diagnosis, neurology, orthopedics,

geriatrics,physiotherapy, and nutrition. Chiropractic programs and institutions

grantthe degree of Doctor of Chiropractic.Chiropractic colleges also offer

postdoctoral training in orthopedics,neurology, sports injuries, nutrition,

rehabilitation, radiology, industrialconsulting, family practice, pediatrics,

and applied chiropractic sciences.Once such training is complete, chiropractors

may take specialty examsleading to �diplomate� status in a given specialty.

Exams are administeredby specialty chiropractic associations.*Licensure.* All

States and the District of Columbia regulate the practiceof chiropractic and

grant licenses to chiropractors who meet the educationaland examination

requirements established by the State. Chiropractors canpractice only in States

where they are licensed. Some States have agreementspermitting chiropractors

licensed in one State to obtain a license inanother without further examination,

provided that their educational,examination, and practice credentials meet State

specifications.Most State licensing boards require at least 2 years of

undergraduateeducation, but an increasing number are requiring a 4-year

bachelor�sdegree. All boards require the completion of a 4-year program at

anaccredited chiropractic college leading to the Doctor of

Chiropracticdegree.For licensure, most State boards recognize either all or part

of thefour-part test administered by the National Board of Chiropractic

Examiners.State examinations may supplement the National Board tests, depending

onState requirements. All States except New Jersey require the completion of

aspecified number of hours of continuing education each year in order tomaintain

licensure. Chiropractic associations and accredited chiropracticprograms and

institutions offer continuing education programs.Here are the specs for the

Allopathic/Osteopathic (MD, DO)

route:http://www.bls.gov/oco/ocos074.htm*Education and training.* Formal

education and training requirements forphysicians are among the most demanding

of any occupation—4 years ofundergraduate school, 4 years of medical school,

and 3 to 8 years ofinternship and residency, depending on the specialty

selected. A few medicalschools offer combined undergraduate and medical school

programs that last 6years rather than the customary 8 years.Premedical students

must complete undergraduate work in physics, biology,mathematics, English, and

inorganic and organic chemistry. Students alsotake courses in the humanities and

the social sciences. Some studentsvolunteer at local hospitals or clinics to

gain practical experience in thehealth professions.The minimum educational

requirement for entry into medical school is 3 yearsof college; most applicants,

however, have at least a bachelor�s degree, andmany have advanced degrees.

There are 146 medical schools in the UnitedStates—126 teach allopathic

medicine and award a Doctor of Medicine (M.D.)degree; 20 teach osteopathic

medicine and award the Doctor of OsteopathicMedicine (D.O.) degree.Acceptance to

medical school is highly competitive. Applicants must submittranscripts, scores

from the Medical College Admission Test, and letters ofrecommendation. Schools

also consider an applicant�s character, personality,leadership qualities, and

participation in extracurricular activities. Mostschools require an interview

with members of the admissions committee.Students spend most of the first 2

years of medical school in laboratoriesand classrooms, taking courses such as

anatomy, biochemistry, physiology,pharmacology, psychology, microbiology,

pathology, medical ethics, and lawsgoverning medicine. They also learn to take

medical histories, examinepatients, and diagnose illnesses. During their last 2

years, students workwith patients under the supervision of experienced

physicians in hospitalsand clinics, learning acute, chronic, preventive, and

rehabilitative care.Through rotations in internal medicine, family practice,

obstetrics andgynecology, pediatrics, psychiatry, and surgery, they gain

experience in thediagnosis and treatment of illness.Following medical school,

almost all M.D.s enter a residency—graduatemedical education in a specialty

that takes the form of paid on-the-jobtraining, usually in a hospital. Most

D.O.s serve a 12-month rotatinginternship after graduation and before entering a

residency, which may last2 to 6 years.A physician�s training is costly.

According to the Association of AmericanMedical Colleges, in 2004 more than 80

percent of medical school graduateswere in debt for educational

expenses.*Licensure and certification.* All States, the District of Columbia,

andU.S. territories license physicians. To be licensed, physicians mustgraduate

from an accredited medical school, pass a licensing examination,and complete 1

to 7 years of graduate medical education. Although physicianslicensed in one

State usually can get a license to practice in anotherwithout further

examination, some States limit reciprocity. Graduates offoreign medical schools

generally can qualify for licensure after passing anexamination and completing a

U.S. residency.M.D.s and D.O.s seeking board certification in a specialty may

spend up to 7years in residency training, depending on the specialty. A final

examinationimmediately after residency or after 1 or 2 years of practice also

isnecessary for certification by a member board of the American Board ofMedical

Specialists (ABMS) or the American Osteopathic Association (AOA).The ABMS

represents 24 boards related to medical specialties ranging fromallergy and

immunology to urology. The AOA has approved 18 specialty boards,ranging from

anesthesiology to surgery. For certification in a subspecialty,physicians

usually need another 1 to 2 years of residency.K.On Wed, Jul 16, 2008 at 2:37

PM, Donald Snow <don83407 wrote:>> Looks to me like this doctor has

pretty good documentation and should give> some folks cause for " lock jaw. "

There is more to this. For instance, one> may get a 4 or 6 year medical degree

from overseas (ie. China, Europe, and> South America) and come here and

challenge the M.D. licensing exam and> actually be licensed as an MD here in the

states.>> Also, to qualify to medical school here in the U.S. the requirement is

an> associate degree, although most to have a B.S. in pre-med, though it's not>

required. Many Chiros I know only have 3,600 hours post-grad and an> associate

degree. Do not be mis-led by inflated and false educational> requirements.>> I

think we should be able to challenge the M.D. exam and if we can pass,>

shouldn't we be able to practice too?>> Donald J. Snow, DAOM, MPH, L.Ac.>>>>>

<Chinese Medicine- ?subject=>> Recent

Activity>> - 1> New

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dentifying-asthma-triggers/healthwise--aa6768.html>>> How you can>> identify

them.> Meditation and>>

Lovingkindness<http://us.ard./SIG=13rhje48c/M=493064.12016231.12582634.\

9706571/D=grphealth/S=1705060814:NC/Y=/EXP=1216251844/L=/B=OkPoC0LaX9M-/J=1\

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l>>> Get the latest news>> from the team.> .>> >-- aka Mu bong

LimFather of BhaktiThe Four Reliances:Do not rely upon the individual, but rely

upon the teaching.As far as teachings go, do not rely upon the words alone, but

rely upon themeaning that underlies them.Regarding the meaning, do not rely upon

the provisional meaning alone, butrely upon the definitive meaning.And regarding

the definitive meaning, do not rely upon ordinaryconsciousness, but rely upon

wisdom awareness.

[Guest guest]

Don

 

Not only is AOM complete but as important it is a DIFFERENT medical system..

 

The system driven allopathic slave employees couldn;t care less but the

corporate slave driver " handlers " don't want a loose cash register outside

allopathy. Heavens forbid they are leaving a few nickels on the table.

 

Richard

 

 

In a message dated 7/17/2008 11:32:32 A.M. Central Standard Time,

don83407 writes:

 

In all of these statistics I don't see any oriental medical training,

although I see western medical training in our curriculum. I was a P.A. in

another

life and now most PAs have a Master's and some even a Doctorate degree. That

does not make them an MD. An MD is a political and licensing title. Most

Oriental Medicine practitioners and Doctors can run clinical circles around

allopathic medicine. That's why you don't see L.Ac's scrambling to add

allopathic

and chiro to their bag of modalities; ours is a complete medicine. If

allopathic and chiropractic were complete, they would not be scrambling to add

acupuncture and OM to their skill set.

 

 

 

 

**************Get the scoop on last night's hottest shows and the live music

scene in your area - Check out TourTracker.com!

(http://www.tourtracker.com?NCID=aolmus00050000000112)

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Koko

Also if you think CM school comes close to the rigor of training of MD

or DOs just talk to people that did both. I have and that does to DC

schools as well. It does not come close even though it may on paper

 

 

 

400 29th St. Suite 419

Oakland Ca 94609

 

 

 

alonmarcus

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

A famous chiropractor once said (the founder actually): paraphrasing -

 

" A philosophy that can stand on the truth does not need the help of the

government to stay alive. I philosophy that is not (allopathy) will

need such help. "

 

This is what is happening. And it sounds to me like the TCM profession

has a lot of the same things going on as chiropractic. Inside battles

and lack of cohesion to get a clear message and some sort of

valid 'proof' on its own. So practitioners keep going on the usual way

and the pharm/AMA machine uses money, government, power to uphold an

image.

[Guest guest]

Alon,

I know that TCM school is not even close to difficult as med school,

because I have a cousin who dropped out of med school at the second year,

did a semester of TCM School in CA and got straight As without even studying

very much.

 

When she first started reading the Maciocia Silver Book, she was trying to

memorize everything.

Everyone told her she didn't have to do that.

But that's what she had to do in med school.

In med school, people study 12-16 hours/ day for weeks in preparation of a

major test.

In TCM school, people don't do half of that and get by with the highest

grades.

 

In order to get into med school, you have to be one of those nerds who

studied after school, did hundreds of hours of community service so that

they could write two promising lines on their resume. You had to get a 3.5

+ GPA in college and then pray that you could be accepted into a decent med

school. You had to pass a very difficult MCAT exam and get a pretty dang

good score on it. Once you got into med school you had to fight off

depression as 1/2 the people do become depressed (according to a med school

counselor). You had to study all night for months to pass STEP 1 and again

for STEP 2 and then again for a 2 day examination for STEP 3

Read :

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Medical_Licensing_Examination

Then you have to go for 80 hours/ week or 30 hours straight and 10 hours

off for residency . This goes on for years.

 

So, yes. We have a lot more to do. We have to be like the Confucian

scholar-physicians pre-Qing dynasty, who dedicated their lives to memorize

all of the classics. Well, we can just do our best. But yes. I know that

we have a long way to go before we can say that TCM School is as demanding

as Med school. Most TCM schools are just trying to financially survive, so

most students get in, regardless of their academic history.

 

K.

 

 

 

..

 

On Thu, Jul 17, 2008 at 4:33 PM, alon marcus <alonmarcus wrote:

 

> Koko

> Also if you think CM school comes close to the rigor of training of MD

> or DOs just talk to people that did both. I have and that does to DC

> schools as well. It does not come close even though it may on paper

>

>

>

> 400 29th St. Suite 419

> Oakland Ca 94609

>

>

>

> alonmarcus <alonmarcus%40wans.net>

>

>

[Guest guest]

That's not totally true for all med schools. Many doctors I worked with in the

military said med school was a piece of cake compared to pre-med and hardly

anyone flunks out of med school once excepted. As a military PA, I've worked

intimately with virtually hundreds of MDs. I also went through the MSTOM and

DAOM programs. In the DAOM program at PCOM, my class started with 18 and we

graduated with 7. That's a high attrition rate. Nontheless, you cannot compare

apples to oranges. Neither you nor I went to medical school but I know some MDs

who went to AOM school, and I applaud them. Our medicine is COMPLETE and we

don't need to learn some other form. Theirs is not, that's why they seek other

modalities to " complete " them.

 

Don Snow, DAOM, MPH, L.Ac

 

 

 

: johnkokko:

Thu, 17 Jul 2008 21:22:41 -0700Re: Re:Want to be a DC or MD ? RE:

Donald

 

 

 

 

Alon,I know that TCM school is not even close to difficult as med school,because

I have a cousin who dropped out of med school at the second year,did a semester

of TCM School in CA and got straight As without even studyingvery much.When she

first started reading the Maciocia Silver Book, she was trying tomemorize

everything.Everyone told her she didn't have to do that.But that's what she had

to do in med school.In med school, people study 12-16 hours/ day for weeks in

preparation of amajor test.In TCM school, people don't do half of that and get

by with the highestgrades.In order to get into med school, you have to be one of

those nerds whostudied after school, did hundreds of hours of community service

so thatthey could write two promising lines on their resume. You had to get a

3.5+ GPA in college and then pray that you could be accepted into a decent

medschool. You had to pass a very difficult MCAT exam and get a pretty danggood

score on it. Once you got into med school you had to fight offdepression as 1/2

the people do become depressed (according to a med schoolcounselor). You had to

study all night for months to pass STEP 1 and againfor STEP 2 and then again for

a 2 day examination for STEP 3Read

:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Medical_Licensing_ExaminationThen

you have to go for 80 hours/ week or 30 hours straight and 10 hoursoff for

residency . This goes on for years.So, yes. We have a lot more to do. We have to

be like the Confucianscholar-physicians pre-Qing dynasty, who dedicated their

lives to memorizeall of the classics. Well, we can just do our best. But yes. I

know thatwe have a long way to go before we can say that TCM School is as

demandingas Med school. Most TCM schools are just trying to financially survive,

somost students get in, regardless of their academic history.K..On Thu, Jul 17,

2008 at 4:33 PM, alon marcus <alonmarcus wrote:> Koko> Also if you

think CM school comes close to the rigor of training of MD> or DOs just talk to

people that did both. I have and that does to DC> schools as well. It does not

come close even though it may on paper>> >> 400 29th St. Suite

419> Oakland Ca 94609> >> >

alonmarcus <alonmarcus%40wans.net>>> [Non-text portions of this message

have been removed]>> >-- aka Mu bong LimFather of BhaktiThe

Four Reliances:Do not rely upon the individual, but rely upon the teaching.As

far as teachings go, do not rely upon the words alone, but rely upon themeaning

that underlies them.Regarding the meaning, do not rely upon the provisional

meaning alone, butrely upon the definitive meaning.And regarding the definitive

meaning, do not rely upon ordinaryconsciousness, but rely upon wisdom

awareness.

[Guest guest]

Who cares? It's the efficacy of the medicines we are discussing, not the rigors

of school or who's is better. You can study at a very hard school, the hardest

in the world, but if you study the wrong stuff, the things that don't make

people better, what good is all the education in the world? If you take

antibiotics out of the equation, name 3 things that allopathic medicine " cures "

without the continued use of meds. Because if meds are removed the problem is

still there.

 

Don Snow, DAOM, L.Ac.

 

 

 

: alonmarcus:

Thu, 17 Jul 2008 16:33:08 -0700Re:Want to be a DC or MD ? RE:

Donald

 

 

 

 

KokoAlso if you think CM school comes close to the rigor of training of MD or

DOs just talk to people that did both. I have and that does to DC schools as

well. It does not come close even though it may on paper400 29th

St. Suite 419Oakland Ca

94609alonmarcus[Non-text

portions of this message have been removed]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Donald

Out of curiosity how long have you been in practice?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

I've been practicing Oriental Medicine since 2002. I will earn a little under

$500,000 this year and I'm still growing. I must be doing something right,

don't you think?

 

Don J. Snow DAOM, MPH, L.Ac.

 

 

 

: alonmarcus:

Fri, 18 Jul 2008 16:01:56 -0700Re: Want to be a DC or MD ? RE:

Donald

 

 

 

 

DonaldOut of curiosity how long have you been in practice?400

29th St. #419Oakland CA

94609[Non-text portions of this

message have been removed]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Don,

 

 

 

Hello! I was wondering if you could give us breakdown of how you make your

money. I.e. visits, supplements, herbs etc. What do you charge per visit and

how many people do you see a week. Sorry for the detailed questions, I am

just extremely curious because I have a maxed out clinic load and don't make

nearly this amount.

 

 

 

-Jason

 

 

 

_____

 

Chinese Medicine

Chinese Medicine On Behalf Of Donald

Snow

Friday, July 18, 2008 5:34 PM

Chinese Traditional Medicine

RE: Re: Want to be a DC or MD ? RE: Donald

 

 

 

 

I've been practicing Oriental Medicine since 2002. I will earn a little

under $500,000 this year and I'm still growing. I must be doing something

right, don't you think?

 

Don J. Snow DAOM, MPH, L.Ac.

 

Traditional_ <Chinese Medicine%40From>

Chinese_Medicine: alonmarcus (AT) wans (DOT)

<alonmarcus%40wans.netDate> netFri, 18 Jul 2008 16:01:56

-0700Re: Want to be a DC or MD ? RE: Donald

 

DonaldOut of curiosity how long have you been in practice?400

29th St. #419Oakland CA

94609[Non-text portions of this

message have been removed]

 

 

[Guest guest]

Yes, I do not sell supplements and I don't sell a lot of herbs. I do integral

medicine. I call it Systemic Interactive Medicine (coined by a Russian lady name

Dr. Irina) and I use acupuncture, MET therapy, and Russian SCENAR, and Low level

laser therapy (but I don't use laser the way we are generally taught, nor do I

use MET therapy the way it is taught, I have copyrighted my methodology at great

cost). I use herbs only when necessary. I offer any patient their treatment

for free on their first visit if they don't get at least 40% relief from any

pain syndrome they may have. I have only had to give a free treatment twice.

What I do is immediate and profound. I bill my treatments under physical

medicine and insurance pays most of the time. I see a lot of patients and many

travel some distance to see me, some even come from Europe. I work almost

non-stop and without lunch about 10 plus hours a day and I have to have 2 full

time assistants to help. For cash patients I charge $150 an hour and if I have

to go over an hour I charge another $20 for each 15 minutes I go over the hour.

Insurance pays somewhat more than that. After a break down, each patient is

worth around $2,800 dollars in the short term. That means the patient usually

has full recovery of whatever I am treating after 9 to 15 visits. I see a new

patient 2 to 3 times a week and I'm usually finished after 1 month. I treat

mostly pain because that is what insurance pays for with my type of therapy.

Insurance considers what I do as physical medicine, which means I can bill for

pain syndromes only. But because I know how to use my equipment I treat asthma,

sarcoidosis, any type of neuropathy (my specialty), and the entire spectrum of

what OM treats. But insurance thinks what I do is TENs, although it is not what

I do at all.

 

When I taught at PCOM, I tried to get the school and students to integrate what

I do into their practices and curriculum. Most were not interested, although

they were quite amazed with the results I got. That is why I make what I make

and most acupuncturists do not. All think they know best, but the proof is in

the taste of the pudding and I am very booked and I am payed very well.

 

Got to go.

 

Don J. Snow, DAOM, MPH, L.Ac

 

 

 

:

: Fri, 18 Jul 2008 18:59:48 -0600RE:

Re: Want to be a DC or MD ? RE: Donald

 

 

 

 

Don,Hello! I was wondering if you could give us breakdown of how you make

yourmoney. I.e. visits, supplements, herbs etc. What do you charge per visit

andhow many people do you see a week. Sorry for the detailed questions, I amjust

extremely curious because I have a maxed out clinic load and don't makenearly

this amount. -Jason_____

Chinese Medicine [Chinese Medicine\

@] On Behalf Of DonaldSnowFriday, July 18, 2008 5:34 PMTo:

Chinese Traditional Medicine: RE: Re: Want to be a

DC or MD ? RE: DonaldI've been practicing Oriental Medicine since 2002. I will

earn a littleunder $500,000 this year and I'm still growing. I must be doing

somethingright, don't you think?Don J. Snow DAOM, MPH, L.Ac. Traditional_

<Chinese Medicine%40From>Chinese_Medicine@yaho\

ogroups.comalonmarcus (AT) wans (DOT) <alonmarcus%40wans.netDate> netDate:

Fri, 18 Jul 2008 16:01:56-0700Re: Want to be a DC or MD ? RE:

DonaldDonaldOut of curiosity how long have you been in practice?Alon Marcus

DOM40029th St. #419Oakland

CA94609[Non-text portions of

thismessage have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been

removed]

[Guest guest]

When you say MET do you mean muscle energy technique? if yes how is it

different?

 

 

400 29th St. Suite 419

Oakland Ca 94609

 

 

 

alonmarcus

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

got my LAc in 1984

 

 

 

400 29th St. Suite 419

Oakland Ca 94609

 

 

 

alonmarcus

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

MET stands for Microcurrent Electrical Therapy and is frequency specific. MET

is seen by insurance companies as TENS, although they are quite different.

 

Don Snow, DAOM, MPH

 

 

 

: alonmarcus:

Mon, 21 Jul 2008 18:53:06 -0700Re: Want to be a DC or MD ? RE:

Donald

 

 

 

 

When you say MET do you mean muscle energy technique? if yes how is it

different?400 29th St. Suite 419Oakland Ca

94609alonmarcus[Non-text

portions of this message have been removed]