Disease at Mental Level- : CM and Buddhist 5-phases

[Guest guest]

Sat, 05 Jul 2008 13:31:13 –0000, Lonny wrote:

>>> it's interesting that the Buddhists focus so intently on the loss

in comparison to the ecstatic liberation, lightness, and integrity that

comes from renunciation of ever changing

thought and feeling states.

 

In my, as yet s/w limited, readings, the two (loss and liberation)

generally go together. " Deep joy, calm, and clarity " (to quote the

subtitle of a new how-to book on the jhanas (stages of meditative

absorption) by Shaila Catherine) are the focus, the goal. But it must be

distinguished from other yearned-for states of (pseudo-)satisfaction.

There is always the qualification that the best peace, happiness

(liberation) arrive thru letting-go, releasing conditioned patterns. Not

as achievements one gets and holds onto as an attainment.

 

Stephen and Ondrea Levine focus on grief, loss, as their major work was

in helping people in the dying process (both those leaving, and their

relatives). Extrapolating backwards into life, they found that much

difficulty in letting-go goes back to life-long conditioning to deny the

constant grief, losing of each moment, event, stage (and associated

identity) of life. The daily minor grief so thoroughly denied, quite

efficiently actually, then when a BIG grief comes along (inevitably),

people often " fall apart " , need special help. Hiding from death and

grief is hiding from life.

 

Holding-onto-youth culture, not letting children see death, hiding away

old, sick, dying people in institutions, etc. Versus, e.g., some Native

American (and other cultures') learning in puberty rites to live with

death over one's shoulder; as in the warrior's " great spirit, mother

earth, all the directions & animal spirits, all my relatives are here

around me; today is a good day to die… " . And (from Sun Bear, among

other) " all life gives itself in death so others may live " (we feed on

plants, animals; worms feed on us; and sometimes we chose actions

leading to our death for a greater good).

 

>>>…I suspect this in part reflects cultural issues around the metal

element (especially in Japanese culture-Harakiri, chrysanthemum [?], etc.).

 

Gil Milner once taught us about the Tibetan medical systems version of

the 5 phases ( " elements " ), with " air " or " space " where the Chinese have

" metal, " and " consciousness " at the place of " wood " . (Tibetan medicine

is historically heavily intertwined with Chinese.)

 

Again, in the Tibetan " Book of the Dead " , the experience of death is

portrayed as a melting away thru the 5-phases in successive suspension

of the ko/control sequence. Lack of motion as the heaviness of body /

earth (1). Releasing into a sense of flow / water (2), as fluid

circulation ceases. Dissolving into fire (3), nervous activity & body

heat dissipating. Dissolving into air/space (4) when nothing left. And

finally releasing into pure consciousness (5) that can be reborn.

(Curiously, Liver/wood in Taoist-Chinese tradition also associates with

rebirth: with Springtime, and as the end of the 24-hour clock cycle

where it begins anew.)

 

This system is apparently identical to the " Buddha's Six Element

practice to equanimity " , which apparently goes back to the " Pali canon " ,

i.e. a couple of centuries BC. The " 6 " comes from separating air (4) and

space (5) and putting consciousness (6) in a separate, s/w transcendent

place.

 

Interesting, as Paul Unschuld mentions (History of Ideas) that the ko /

control cycle was the more original sequence historically. E.g. as in

the yellow dynasty overcoming, succeeding the black dynasty (in

political divination). The sheng / generating sequence came later. Also

interesting as Unschuld claims there was a flux of different schemes

prior to the Han consolidation, including schemes of 4, or 6

elements/phases. Even in the SuWen (1st century BCE to 1st century CE)

there's still some fluidity, inconsistency as to the exact 5-phase

correspondences. So perhaps remarkable the consistency found in the

Buddhist version, if in fact that stems from the Pali canon (written

down ca. 4th to 2nd centuries BCE).

 

Also interesting, the metal / air-space correspondence: Jeffery Yuen

taught once that Taoist cosmology of incarnation holds (at least in one

variant) that the individual soul floats around (as in the end of the

Tibetan 49-day period between incarnations) as part of the cosmos, as

metal, is colored white. With luck (human reincarnation), it then enters

into a zygote / embryo, " choosing these parents " ; entering the

earth/spleen phase of the 1st trimester; then fire/heart phase in the

2nd trimester; then wood/liver in the 3rd trimester. Then birth comes

through water into, again, metal (lungs, first breath entering air).

Note that pre-birth (pre-heaven, pre-exposure to air) follows a reverse

generation sequence: metal, earth, fire, wood, water. After birth, the

normal generation cycle takes hold, e.g. as we use it in the medicine.

 

chris m

[Guest guest]

Chris,

good to hear from you.

 

If everything is intertwined,

then there is no loss

just the alchemy of changes

 

I've heard of the six phases schools before...

can you elaborate on this?

 

K.

 

 

 

On Wed, Jul 9, 2008 at 3:18 AM, < wrote:

 

> Sat, 05 Jul 2008 13:31:13 –0000, Lonny wrote:

> >>> it's interesting that the Buddhists focus so intently on the loss

> in comparison to the ecstatic liberation, lightness, and integrity that

> comes from renunciation of ever changing

> thought and feeling states.

>

> In my, as yet s/w limited, readings, the two (loss and liberation)

> generally go together. " Deep joy, calm, and clarity " (to quote the

> subtitle of a new how-to book on the jhanas (stages of meditative

> absorption) by Shaila Catherine) are the focus, the goal. But it must be

> distinguished from other yearned-for states of (pseudo-)satisfaction.

> There is always the qualification that the best peace, happiness

> (liberation) arrive thru letting-go, releasing conditioned patterns. Not

> as achievements one gets and holds onto as an attainment.

>

> Stephen and Ondrea Levine focus on grief, loss, as their major work was

> in helping people in the dying process (both those leaving, and their

> relatives). Extrapolating backwards into life, they found that much

> difficulty in letting-go goes back to life-long conditioning to deny the

> constant grief, losing of each moment, event, stage (and associated

> identity) of life. The daily minor grief so thoroughly denied, quite

> efficiently actually, then when a BIG grief comes along (inevitably),

> people often " fall apart " , need special help. Hiding from death and

> grief is hiding from life.

>

> Holding-onto-youth culture, not letting children see death, hiding away

> old, sick, dying people in institutions, etc. Versus, e.g., some Native

> American (and other cultures') learning in puberty rites to live with

> death over one's shoulder; as in the warrior's " great spirit, mother

> earth, all the directions & animal spirits, all my relatives are here

> around me; today is a good day to die… " . And (from Sun Bear, among

> other) " all life gives itself in death so others may live " (we feed on

> plants, animals; worms feed on us; and sometimes we chose actions

> leading to our death for a greater good).

>

> >>>…I suspect this in part reflects cultural issues around the metal

> element (especially in Japanese culture-Harakiri, chrysanthemum [?], etc.).

>

> Gil Milner once taught us about the Tibetan medical systems version of

> the 5 phases ( " elements " ), with " air " or " space " where the Chinese have

> " metal, " and " consciousness " at the place of " wood " . (Tibetan medicine

> is historically heavily intertwined with Chinese.)

>

> Again, in the Tibetan " Book of the Dead " , the experience of death is

> portrayed as a melting away thru the 5-phases in successive suspension

> of the ko/control sequence. Lack of motion as the heaviness of body /

> earth (1). Releasing into a sense of flow / water (2), as fluid

> circulation ceases. Dissolving into fire (3), nervous activity & body

> heat dissipating. Dissolving into air/space (4) when nothing left. And

> finally releasing into pure consciousness (5) that can be reborn.

> (Curiously, Liver/wood in Taoist-Chinese tradition also associates with

> rebirth: with Springtime, and as the end of the 24-hour clock cycle

> where it begins anew.)

>

> This system is apparently identical to the " Buddha's Six Element

> practice to equanimity " , which apparently goes back to the " Pali canon " ,

> i.e. a couple of centuries BC. The " 6 " comes from separating air (4) and

> space (5) and putting consciousness (6) in a separate, s/w transcendent

> place.

>

> Interesting, as Paul Unschuld mentions (History of Ideas) that the ko /

> control cycle was the more original sequence historically. E.g. as in

> the yellow dynasty overcoming, succeeding the black dynasty (in

> political divination). The sheng / generating sequence came later. Also

> interesting as Unschuld claims there was a flux of different schemes

> prior to the Han consolidation, including schemes of 4, or 6

> elements/phases. Even in the SuWen (1st century BCE to 1st century CE)

> there's still some fluidity, inconsistency as to the exact 5-phase

> correspondences. So perhaps remarkable the consistency found in the

> Buddhist version, if in fact that stems from the Pali canon (written

> down ca. 4th to 2nd centuries BCE).

>

> Also interesting, the metal / air-space correspondence: Jeffery Yuen

> taught once that Taoist cosmology of incarnation holds (at least in one

> variant) that the individual soul floats around (as in the end of the

> Tibetan 49-day period between incarnations) as part of the cosmos, as

> metal, is colored white. With luck (human reincarnation), it then enters

> into a zygote / embryo, " choosing these parents " ; entering the

> earth/spleen phase of the 1st trimester; then fire/heart phase in the

> 2nd trimester; then wood/liver in the 3rd trimester. Then birth comes

> through water into, again, metal (lungs, first breath entering air).

> Note that pre-birth (pre-heaven, pre-exposure to air) follows a reverse

> generation sequence: metal, earth, fire, wood, water. After birth, the

> normal generation cycle takes hold, e.g. as we use it in the medicine.

>

> chris m

>

> ---

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