Guest guest Posted June 11, 2008 Report Share Posted June 11, 2008 Hello all, I posted this on another and got no response so I am hoping someone may be able to answer the questions I have in the thoughts and questions section.? Any insight would be appreciated.? Thank you. ?Beth Grubb Licensed Acupuncturist www.bethgrubb.com beth 410-591-2644 sg1532 taialumni Fri, 30 May 2008 11:48 am ammenorrhea Hello, I was hoping for some help with a patient who is a 33 yo female, ticket in the door is ammenorhea, and anovulation (after restoring her period she would like to work on her fertility issues).? Bear with me please this will be a long post as I am trying to give as much information as possible.? Her pulse on the left is usually pretty deep and weak.?( -1.5 or? -2) ?Occastionally I/II and VII/VIII are thin or?tight.? Her pulse on the left is usually deep but not as weak overall as the right.? Her tongue is average pink to sometimes pale (never red), scalloped, lots of horizontal cracks in KI through LU area (not to tip), no distended veins, and sometimes a slightly greasy, yet thin whitish coat. Tongue?also has some?small degree of dryness? ( for 5 element pracs...C-Blue S- Groan and Laugh O- Putrid E- joy/LOJ ) Bowels 1-2 xs day -normal no problems Urine frequent but not scanty amounts ranges clear to yellow no problems Occassionally gets night sweats High pitch ringing in ears Not too hot or too cold temperature wise unless getting occasional nite sweat Sleep mostly through the night but never feels really refreshed Gets frequent headaches on forehead that are dull and achey and frequent migraines that are her neck, shoulders, and entire head... pounding boring no nausea a cold rag helps? (headaches and migraines have gotten better with treatment and occur much less frequently) Has L4 and L5 herniated disks from a diving accident as a teen, has " severe spinal stinosis " , has sharp pain in sciatic area at buttocks to lets and feet because of herniated disks, is achey and stiff every am when gets out of bed, pressure on her lower spine feels " horrible " ? pressure on surrounding areas is likea? " good hurt " Periods- Started at 14 yo had about 5 periods between 14-18 yo very irregular, no pain, no pms, no spotting avg amount and texture, brite colored red with no clots.? @18 yo went on pill to help try to regulate cycle and it helped until she went off pill at age 26.? At 26 she started fertility treament including at various times Clomid, Provera, Metformin and was on various ones for about 1 and a half years with no resulting pregnancy.? Went off meds due to intensified emotions while taking them.? Doctors have told her she has lots of eggs she is just not ovulating.? The only time she ever ovulated was while she was on fertility meds.? And the only time she ever had a period after 18 yo was when she was on birth control or fertility drugs.? Her BBT chart is very sawtoothed all over, but we don't know where we would even start day one at because she hasn't been on meds and had a period since about 28 yo.? When we started treatment she reported no cramping and no vaginal discharge at any time. I've seen her 17 times.? Since beginning treatment her headaches and migraines have decreased significantly.? She is no longer having night sweats.? Her back pain has not changed.? I started seeing her on 2/1/08.? I have put her on Women's Precious Herbs.?I? treat her in Water and have also been incorporating points like LR 8, SP 6, ST36, SP 10, as well as Back Shu, CV and abdomen points.? I'm also using Jane Lyttleton's book for some guidelines.? On 3/9-3/14 she experienced cramping and yellowish semi clear discharge.? On 4/12-4/17 she experienced heavy cramping and non thick clear discharge.? On 5/9-5/22 she experienced heavy cramping and clear discharge.? I then did ID's on her on 5/23 and then on 5/24 she experienced less intense cramping from 5/24 to 5/29, however with no discharge.? Since treatment her pulses are not quite as deep?and mostly still present as weak (-3/4 or - 1 and 1/4). My thoughts and questions: ? II've treated fertility issues before, and this is my first case of ammenorrhea.?? I?know that it can take a minimum of 3 months to regulate the cycle, what would you say the maximum time would be before you determine that treatment will most likely not bring the cycle back.? 9 months /a year? I'd like to be able to confidently say to my patient a timeline reference.? To me it sounds like she is getting some sort of a regularity re the cramping and discharge, and I'm taking this as a positive sign.? Would I request her to start BBT at the beginning day of discharge (considering it period time) even though it is not a period?? Or would the discharge be more likely her supposed ovulation time? Or is there really no way to tell at this point?? Since she basically had cramping from 5/9 through yesterday (5/22), should I take that as a good sign that things are moving or should I be concerned because that seems like an excessively long time to be having cramps?? Any thoughts suggestions or comments would be appreciated Thanks in advance for your help and your time in reading this. Beth ?Beth Grubb Licensed Acupuncturist www.bethgrubb.com beth 410-591-2644 Stay informed, get connected and more with AOL on your phone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 17, 2008 Report Share Posted June 17, 2008 Hi Beth, I think you have a complex case here as the patient has chronic medical history. Ammenorrhea, or mentrual block in TCM term.,can be effectively treated, in general, with herbal medicine if pattern identification is correct. I guess the chief signs you need to tackle here is cramping (abdominal pain) and return of menstruation rather than worrying ovulation(that will be taken care later). If you can post what herbs you had used before may be I or other listed members can give you some feedback and protocol. Regards. SUNG, Yuk-ming PhD (Chengdu), L Ac & CMP (HK) Chinese Medicine , sg1532 wrote: > > Hello all, > I posted this on another and got no response so I am hoping someone may be able to answer the questions I have in the thoughts and questions section.? Any insight would be appreciated.? Thank you. > > > ?Beth Grubb > Licensed Acupuncturist > www.bethgrubb.com > beth > 410-591-2644 > > > > sg1532 > taialumni > Fri, 30 May 2008 11:48 am > ammenorrhea > > > Hello, > I was hoping for some help with a patient who is a 33 yo female, ticket in the door is ammenorhea, and anovulation (after restoring her period she would like to work on her fertility issues).? Bear with me please this will be a long post as I am trying to give as much information as possible.? > Her pulse on the left is usually pretty deep and weak.?( -1.5 or? - 2) ?Occastionally I/II and VII/VIII are thin or?tight.? Her pulse on the left is usually deep but not as weak overall as the right.? Her tongue is average pink to sometimes pale (never red), scalloped, lots of horizontal cracks in KI through LU area (not to tip), no distended veins, and sometimes a slightly greasy, yet thin whitish coat. Tongue?also has some?small degree of dryness? ( for 5 element pracs...C-Blue S- Groan and Laugh O- Putrid E- joy/LOJ ) > Bowels 1-2 xs day -normal no problems > Urine frequent but not scanty amounts ranges clear to yellow no problems > Occassionally gets night sweats > High pitch ringing in ears > Not too hot or too cold temperature wise unless getting occasional nite sweat > Sleep mostly through the night but never feels really refreshed > Gets frequent headaches on forehead that are dull and achey and frequent migraines that are her neck, shoulders, and entire head... pounding boring no nausea a cold rag helps? (headaches and migraines have gotten better with treatment and occur much less frequently) > Has L4 and L5 herniated disks from a diving accident as a teen, has " severe spinal stinosis " , has sharp pain in sciatic area at buttocks to lets and feet because of herniated disks, is achey and stiff every am when gets out of bed, pressure on her lower spine feels " horrible " ? pressure on surrounding areas is likea? " good hurt " > Periods- Started at 14 yo had about 5 periods between 14-18 yo very irregular, no pain, no pms, no spotting avg amount and texture, brite colored red with no clots.? @18 yo went on pill to help try to regulate cycle and it helped until she went off pill at age 26.? At 26 she started fertility treament including at various times Clomid, Provera, Metformin and was on various ones for about 1 and a half years with no resulting pregnancy.? Went off meds due to intensified emotions while taking them.? Doctors have told her she has lots of eggs she is just not ovulating.? The only time she ever ovulated was while she was on fertility meds.? And the only time she ever had a period after 18 yo was when she was on birth control or fertility drugs.? > Her BBT chart is very sawtoothed all over, but we don't know where we would even start day one at because she hasn't been on meds and had a period since about 28 yo.? When we started treatment she reported no cramping and no vaginal discharge at any time. > > I've seen her 17 times.? Since beginning treatment her headaches and migraines have decreased significantly.? She is no longer having night sweats.? Her back pain has not changed.? I started seeing her on 2/1/08.? I have put her on Women's Precious Herbs.?I? treat her in Water and have also been incorporating points like LR 8, SP 6, ST36, SP 10, as well as Back Shu, CV and abdomen points.? I'm also using Jane Lyttleton's book for some guidelines.? On 3/9-3/14 she experienced cramping and yellowish semi clear discharge.? On 4/12- 4/17 she experienced heavy cramping and non thick clear discharge.? On 5/9-5/22 she experienced heavy cramping and clear discharge.? I then did ID's on her on 5/23 and then on 5/24 she experienced less intense cramping from 5/24 to 5/29, however with no discharge.? Since treatment her pulses are not quite as deep?and mostly still present as weak (-3/4 or - 1 and 1/4). > > My thoughts and questions: ? II've treated fertility issues before, and this is my first case of ammenorrhea.?? I?know that it can take a minimum of 3 months to regulate the cycle, what would you say the maximum time would be before you determine that treatment will most likely not bring the cycle back.? 9 months /a year? I'd like to be able to confidently say to my patient a timeline reference.? To me it sounds like she is getting some sort of a regularity re the cramping and discharge, and I'm taking this as a positive sign.? Would I request her to start BBT at the beginning day of discharge (considering it period time) even though it is not a period?? Or would the discharge be more likely her supposed ovulation time? Or is there really no way to tell at this point?? Since she basically had cramping from 5/9 through yesterday (5/22), should I take that as a good sign that things are moving or should I be concerned because that seems like an excessively long time to be having cramps?? > > Any thoughts suggestions or comments would be appreciated > Thanks in advance for your help and your time in reading this. > Beth > > > > > ?Beth Grubb > Licensed Acupuncturist > www.bethgrubb.com > beth > 410-591-2644 > > Stay informed, get connected and more with AOL on your phone. > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 17, 2008 Report Share Posted June 17, 2008 Thanks Sung, I generally do not practice chinese herbs, my school (TAI Sophia) only taught acupuncture.? The only herbs I have her on are Womens Precious.? I've been thinking of adding Five Ancestors.? These were both recommendations given to me by collegues who practice chinese herbs.? I'm wary of doing anything that is not a patent and that is not a " overall safe for most people " formula since I only took a weekend herb course on about 20 different patents, thats the extent of my herbal training.? I see a lot of stuff going on with her Kidneys and think Jing, KI yin and yang are all? in need of attention.? Also some LR qi stagnation, which I've been incorporating into some treatments.? I've been working a lot with Jane Lyttletons book however most of the herbal prescrips she has in there don't make sense to me since they are not listed as patents.? Any other ideas would be welcome.? Thanks again, Beth ?Beth Grubb Licensed Acupuncturist www.bethgrubb.com beth 410-591-2644 sxm2649 <sxm2649 Chinese Medicine Tue, 17 Jun 2008 11:45 am Re: ammenorrhea Hi Beth, I think you have a complex case here as the patient has chronic medical history. Ammenorrhea, or mentrual block in TCM term.,can be effectively treated, in general, with herbal medicine if pattern identification is correct. I guess the chief signs you need to tackle here is cramping (abdominal pain) and return of menstruation rather than worrying ovulation(that will be taken care later). If you can post what herbs you had used before may be I or other listed members can give you some feedback and protocol. Regards. SUNG, Yuk-ming PhD (Chengdu), L Ac & CMP (HK) Chinese Medicine , sg1532 wrote: > > Hello all, > I posted this on another and got no response so I am hoping someone may be able to answer the questions I have in the thoughts and questions section.? Any insight would be appreciated.? Thank you. > > > ?Beth Grubb > Licensed Acupuncturist > www.bethgrubb.com > beth > 410-591-2644 > > > > sg1532 > taialumni > Fri, 30 May 2008 11:48 am > ammenorrhea > > > Hello, > I was hoping for some help with a patient who is a 33 yo female, ticket in the door is ammenorhea, and anovulation (after restoring her period she would like to work on her fertility issues).? Bear with me please this will be a long post as I am trying to give as much information as possible.? > Her pulse on the left is usually pretty deep and weak.?( -1.5 or? - 2) ?Occastionally I/II and VII/VIII are thin or?tight.? Her pulse on the left is usually deep but not as weak overall as the right.? Her tongue is average pink to sometimes pale (never red), scalloped, lots of horizontal cracks in KI through LU area (not to tip), no distended veins, and sometimes a slightly greasy, yet thin whitish coat. Tongue?also has some?small degree of dryness? ( for 5 element pracs...C-Blue S- Groan and Laugh O- Putrid E- joy/LOJ ) > Bowels 1-2 xs day -normal no problems > Urine frequent but not scanty amounts ranges clear to yellow no problems > Occassionally gets night sweats > High pitch ringing in ears > Not too hot or too cold temperature wise unless getting occasional nite sweat > Sleep mostly through the night but never feels really refreshed > Gets frequent headaches on forehead that are dull and achey and frequent migraines that are her neck, shoulders, and entire head... pounding boring no nausea a cold rag helps? (headaches and migraines have gotten better with treatment and occur much less frequently) > Has L4 and L5 herniated disks from a diving accident as a teen, has " severe spinal stinosis " , has sharp pain in sciatic area at buttocks to lets and feet because of herniated disks, is achey and stiff every am when gets out of bed, pressure on her lower spine feels " horrible " ? pressure on surrounding areas is likea? " good hurt " > Periods- Started at 14 yo had about 5 periods between 14-18 yo very irregular, no pain, no pms, no spotting avg amount and texture, brite colored red with no clots.? @18 yo went on pill to help try to regulate cycle and it helped until she went off pill at age 26.? At 26 she started fertility treament including at various times Clomid, Provera, Metformin and was on various ones for about 1 and a half years with no resulting pregnancy.? Went off meds due to intensified emotions while taking them.? Doctors have told her she has lots of eggs she is just not ovulating.? The only time she ever ovulated was while she was on fertility meds.? And the only time she ever had a period after 18 yo was when she was on birth control or fertility drugs.? > Her BBT chart is very sawtoothed all over, but we don't know where we would even start day one at because she hasn't been on meds and had a period since about 28 yo.? When we started treatment she reported no cramping and no vaginal discharge at any time. > > I've seen her 17 times.? Since beginning treatment her headaches and migraines have decreased significantly.? She is no longer having night sweats.? Her back pain has not changed.? I started seeing her on 2/1/08.? I have put her on Women's Precious Herbs.?I? treat her in Water and have also been incorporating points like LR 8, SP 6, ST36, SP 10, as well as Back Shu, CV and abdomen points.? I'm also using Jane Lyttleton's book for some guidelines.? On 3/9-3/14 she experienced cramping and yellowish semi clear discharge.? On 4/12- 4/17 she experienced heavy cramping and non thick clear discharge.? On 5/9-5/22 she experienced heavy cramping and clear discharge.? I then did ID's on her on 5/23 and then on 5/24 she experienced less intense cramping from 5/24 to 5/29, however with no discharge.? Since treatment her pulses are not quite as deep?and mostly still present as weak (-3/4 or - 1 and 1/4). > > My thoughts and questions: ? II've treated fertility issues before, and this is my first case of ammenorrhea.?? I?know that it can take a minimum of 3 months to regulate the cycle, what would you say the maximum time would be before you determine that treatment will most likely not bring the cycle back.? 9 months /a year? I'd like to be able to confidently say to my patient a timeline reference.? To me it sounds like she is getting some sort of a regularity re the cramping and discharge, and I'm taking this as a positive sign.? Would I request her to start BBT at the beginning day of discharge (considering it period time) even though it is not a period?? Or would the discharge be more likely her supposed ovulation time? Or is there really no way to tell at this point?? Since she basically had cramping from 5/9 through yesterday (5/22), should I take that as a good sign that things are moving or should I be concerned because that seems like an excessively long time to be having cramps?? > > Any thoughts suggestions or comments would be appreciated > Thanks in advance for your help and your time in reading this. > Beth > > > > > ?Beth Grubb > Licensed Acupuncturist > www.bethgrubb.com > beth > 410-591-2644 > > Stay informed, get connected and more with AOL on your phone. > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 24, 2008 Report Share Posted June 24, 2008 Hi Beth, I am glad to learn that you start using patent formula. For the most part, acu. alone cannot handle deficiency cases like this one. Kath suggests u to start w granules and it is really handy. Mark also has a good suggestion in another thread (Herbal names) that you just stick to pinyin, forget long latin names. Back to your case. With herbal medicine, here is my analysis of your case for your reference. Name of disease Menstrual block (Ammernorrhea)WM Chief signs: Irregular to extremely rare menstrual flow, migraine, headache, tinnitus Pulse: L sunken, R sunken (more severe) Tongue: Pale, cracks, no fur Urination: Normal Defecation: Normal Pathomechanism: Chong and ren deficiency cold, static blood obstructing internally Treatment method: Channel-warming, blood-nourishing, and stasis- dispelling Formula: Wen jing tang (Channel-Warming Decoction) Medicinals: wu.zhu.yu (evodia) 10g sheng.jiang (fresh ginger) 10g gui.zhi (cinnamon twig) 10g dang.gui (tangkuei) 10g chuan.xiong (ligusticum), 10g bai.shao.yao (white peony) 10g mu.dan.pi (mouton)10g e.jiao (ass hide glue) 10g ren.shen (ginseng) 10g gan.cao (licorice) 10g ban.xia (pinellia) 10g mai.men.dong (ophiopogon) 30g Dosage: 12g to 15g daily, 2 weeks Usually I will modify the formula but luckily in your patient's case, this formula fits the pathomechanism of her problems and fits all her signs. You can just buy one bottle of granule. This formula can also treat anovulia. See the clinical usage and modern research section. Accumulated stasis obstructs qi dynamic and engenders heat; evil heat damages the yin blood causing heat effusion during dusk and vexing heat in palms; abdominal urgency at lower abdomen and abdominal fullness signifies coldness and stasis in the uterus; static blood obstructs the distribution of fluids, fluid failing to moisten in the upper causes dryness in the lips and mouth. The pathomechanism is chong and ren deficiency cold, static blood obstructing internally and the pattern is spotting. Treatment includes channel-warming, blood-nourishing, and stasis-dispelling methods. In the formula, wu.zhu.yu (evodia), sheng.jiang (fresh ginger), and gui.zhi (cinnamon twig) warm the channels to dissipate coldness; dang.gui (tangkuei), chuan.xiong (ligusticum), bai.shao.yao (white peony), mu.dan.pi (mouton), and e.jiao (ass hide glue) nourish the blood, harmonize the ying and disperse stasis; ren.shen (ginseng), gan.cao (licorice), and ban.xia (pinellia) supplement the center qi and harmonize the stomach; and mai.men.dong (ophiopogon) moistens the dryness. COMMENTARY This is a basic all-purpose menstruation-regulating formula especially good for cold pattern. For modifications, qi- supplementing medicinals is necessary if signs of qi deficiency are also outstanding. CLINICAL USAGE AND MODERN RESEARCH This formula can treat many gynecological diseases marked by the deficiency cold accompanied by stasis pattern. They include functional uterine bleeding, endometriosis, endometrial hyperplasia, dysmenorrheal, amenorrhea, ovarian cysts, uterine fibroids, senile vaginitis, itching of the vulva, and skin problems. Laboratory research shows that the medicinal mu dan pi (moutan) can promote the secretion of LH and the formula on the whole can promote the secretion of LH-RH in diencephalon; therefore, the formula can treat anovulia caused by malfunction of diencephalon. The above materials (extracted) is from my translation of Jin Gui Yao Lue of the gyneocolgy chapter (not edited yet). It will released soon with several exclusive 'effective formulas' treating diseases from Meniere's disease, irregular menstruation, to ENT disease. Hope that helps, SUNG, Yuk-ming PhD (Chengdu U TCM), BA (Houston), L Ac & CMP (Hong Kong) I guess the other --- In Chinese Medicine , sg1532 wrote: > > Thanks Sung, > I generally do not practice chinese herbs, my school (TAI Sophia) only taught acupuncture.? The only herbs I have her on are Womens Precious.? I've been thinking of adding Five Ancestors.? These were both recommendations given to me by collegues who practice chinese herbs.? I'm wary of doing anything that is not a patent and that is not a " overall safe for most people " formula since I only took a weekend herb course on about 20 different patents, thats the extent of my herbal training.? I see a lot of stuff going on with her Kidneys and think Jing, KI yin and yang are all? in need of attention.? Also some LR qi stagnation, which I've been incorporating into some treatments.? I've been working a lot with Jane Lyttletons book however most of the herbal prescrips she has in there don't make sense to me since they are not listed as patents.? Any other ideas would be welcome.? Thanks again, > Beth > > > ?Beth Grubb > Licensed Acupuncturist > www.bethgrubb.com > beth > 410-591-2644 > > > > sxm2649 <sxm2649 > Chinese Medicine > Tue, 17 Jun 2008 11:45 am > Re: ammenorrhea Hi Beth, I think you have a complex case here as the patient has > chronic medical history. Ammenorrhea, or mentrual block in TCM > term.,can be effectively treated, in general, with herbal medicine > if pattern identification is correct. I guess the chief signs you > need to tackle here is cramping (abdominal pain) and return of > menstruation rather than worrying ovulation(that will be taken care > later). If you can post what herbs you had used before may be I or > other listed members can give you some feedback and protocol. > > Regards. > SUNG, Yuk-ming > PhD (Chengdu), L Ac & CMP (HK) > > Chinese Medicine , sg1532@ wrote: > > > > Hello all, > > I posted this on another and got no response so I am > hoping someone may be able to answer the questions I have in the > thoughts and questions section.? Any insight would be appreciated.? > Thank you. > > > > > > ?Beth Grubb > > Licensed Acupuncturist > > www.bethgrubb.com > > beth@ > > 410-591-2644 > > > > > > > > sg1532@ > > taialumni > > Fri, 30 May 2008 11:48 am > > ammenorrhea > > > > > > Hello, > > I was hoping for some help with a patient who is a 33 yo female, > ticket in the door is ammenorhea, and anovulation (after restoring > her period she would like to work on her fertility issues).? Bear > with me please this will be a long post as I am trying to give as > much information as possible.? > > Her pulse on the left is usually pretty deep and weak.?( -1.5 or? - > 2) ?Occastionally I/II and VII/VIII are thin or?tight.? Her pulse on > the left is usually deep but not as weak overall as the right.? Her > tongue is average pink to sometimes pale (never red), scalloped, > lots of horizontal cracks in KI through LU area (not to tip), no > distended veins, and sometimes a slightly greasy, yet thin whitish > coat. Tongue?also has some?small degree of dryness? ( for 5 element > pracs...C-Blue S- Groan and Laugh O- Putrid E- joy/LOJ ) > > Bowels 1-2 xs day -normal no problems > > Urine frequent but not scanty amounts ranges clear to yellow no > problems > > Occassionally gets night sweats > > High pitch ringing in ears > > Not too hot or too cold temperature wise unless getting occasional > nite sweat > > Sleep mostly through the night but never feels really refreshed > > Gets frequent headaches on forehead that are dull and achey and > frequent migraines that are her neck, shoulders, and entire head... > pounding boring no nausea a cold rag helps? (headaches and migraines > have gotten better with treatment and occur much less frequently) > > Has L4 and L5 herniated disks from a diving accident as a teen, > has " severe spinal stinosis " , has sharp pain in sciatic area at > buttocks to lets and feet because of herniated disks, is achey and > stiff every am when gets out of bed, pressure on her lower spine > feels " horrible " ? pressure on surrounding areas is likea? " good hurt " > > Periods- Started at 14 yo had about 5 periods between 14-18 yo > very irregular, no pain, no pms, no spotting avg amount and texture, > brite colored red with no clots.? @18 yo went on pill to help try to > regulate cycle and it helped until she went off pill at age 26.? At > 26 she started fertility treament including at various times Clomid, > Provera, Metformin and was on various ones for about 1 and a half > years with no resulting pregnancy.? Went off meds due to intensified > emotions while taking them.? Doctors have told her she has lots of > eggs she is just not ovulating.? The only time she ever ovulated was > while she was on fertility meds.? And the only time she ever had a > period after 18 yo was when she was on birth control or fertility > drugs.? > > Her BBT chart is very sawtoothed all over, but we don't know where > we would even start day one at because she hasn't been on meds and > had a period since about 28 yo.? When we started treatment she > reported no cramping and no vaginal discharge at any time. > > > > I've seen her 17 times.? Since beginning treatment her headaches > and migraines have decreased significantly.? She is no longer having > night sweats.? Her back pain has not changed.? I started seeing her > on 2/1/08.? I have put her on Women's Precious Herbs.?I? treat her > in Water and have also been incorporating points like LR 8, SP 6, > ST36, SP 10, as well as Back Shu, CV and abdomen points.? I'm also > using Jane Lyttleton's book for some guidelines.? On 3/9-3/14 she > experienced cramping and yellowish semi clear discharge.? On 4/12- > 4/17 she experienced heavy cramping and non thick clear discharge.? > On 5/9-5/22 she experienced heavy cramping and clear discharge.? I > then did ID's on her on 5/23 and then on 5/24 she experienced less > intense cramping from 5/24 to 5/29, however with no discharge.? > Since treatment her pulses are not quite as deep?and mostly still > present as weak (-3/4 or - 1 and 1/4). > > > > My thoughts and questions: ? II've treated fertility issues > before, and this is my first case of ammenorrhea.?? I?know that it > can take a minimum of 3 months to regulate the cycle, what would you > say the maximum time would be before you determine that treatment > will most likely not bring the cycle back.? 9 months /a year? I'd > like to be able to confidently say to my patient a timeline > reference.? To me it sounds like she is getting some sort of a > regularity re the cramping and discharge, and I'm taking this as a > positive sign.? Would I request her to start BBT at the beginning > day of discharge (considering it period time) even though it is not > a period?? Or would the discharge be more likely her supposed > ovulation time? Or is there really no way to tell at this point?? > Since she basically had cramping from 5/9 through yesterday (5/22), > should I take that as a good sign that things are moving or should I > be concerned because that seems like an excessively long time to be > having cramps?? > > > > Any thoughts suggestions or comments would be appreciated > > Thanks in advance for your help and your time in reading this. > > Beth > > > > > > > > > > ?Beth Grubb > > Licensed Acupuncturist > > www.bethgrubb.com > > beth@ > > 410-591-2644 > > > > Stay informed, get connected and more with AOL on your phone. > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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