The end of process oriented healing.

[Guest guest]

Hi Folks,

 

I am declaring today, 5.30.08, to mark the official death of

humanistic,process oriented, psycho-emotional healing for all those

who have reached a world-centric level of development.

 

And thus we have the birth of a new medicine for a new humanity

stepping forward from here......

 

------------------------

A friend and student of mine named Sarah Van Hoy

is on the faculty of Health Arts at Goddard College. I just received

this note from her:

 

" A little note from evolution - I was at my faculty retreat yesterday

and we collectively decided that " process " in healing was done and

that,as faculty, we would hold something else - step into the One

Consciousness that is always there and move the world forward. This

is the new mandate of Health Arts at Goddard. " -Sarah

 

Isn't this fantastic? It's a big part of what I've been working for

these last 6 years. We are witnessing the end of the " therapeutic "

process where healing at the level of the heart and mind is thought to

take time. Simply put, the part of us that needs more time to heal

emotionally IS the disease itself in people who have reached a world

centric level of development. Clinical practice, as well as life, have

taught me that there are two sources of motivation competing for our

attention. The ego is that wounded, traumatized part of ourselves that

loves the process of healing but has no intention of ever being

healed. Its sole motivation is to preserve the past. The authentic

self, the spirit, doesn't need healing because nothing ever happened

there. It's only interest is living with more integrity RIGHT NOW. And

that's what holistic and integral healing is about-moving from a

relatively divided state to increasing states of wholeness and

integration.

 

 

From this perspective any modality that requires " process " is seen as

strengthening the presence of the disease by reinforcing a

dysfunctional relationship to time, thought, and feeling. It is my

estimation that the minimum requirement for anyone to be considered a

healer is that he or she has to have renounced the right to take any

more time for healing past " wounds and traumas " . Of course, this

renunciation could only meaningfully come from having fully

discovered, and given one's self to,that part of one's self that is

always more interested in creating the future than on overcoming one's

past. This is a sign of maturity that suggests the person is truly

more focused on living for the sake of the whole than on being self

absorbed. And this means the practitioner is actually living the

implications of the five-element model, or any holistic model, beyond

a mere theoretical understanding.

 

I'm just giving notice that a new core value system is arising in

culture that obsoletes the " process " oriented, humanistic, values

focused on the patient as being a victim who needs time to heal from

his or her past. Just as the humanistic leanings of new age healing

have supplanted the materialism of biomedicine these last 40 years, so

too will this new core value system wash over and erase the new age

values of the sensitive self, humanistic, psycho-emotional approach so

rampant in the alternative medical field.

 

Thus the of the newage influence in medicine that has contributed to

so much nonsense and pretense under the auspices of " spirituality " and

sensitive self " healing " comes to an end.

 

It's not a question of " if " this transition will happen because it is

happening right now as evidenced by Sarah's letter. Of course, what

I'm pointing to is the leading edge of the highest medicine.

Psycho-emotional healing is dead. Realization of the Self beyond the

ego's emotional tides, right now, is the rising star in what may be

the first truly spiritually based medicine to have appeared on the planet.

 

 

 

Submitted for consideration.

 

)

 

Warm regards, Lonny Jarrett

[Guest guest]

Hi Lonny - I'm beginning to get a glimmer of what you've been talking

about, and have been trying to figure out how that practically plays out

in the treatment room. How do you present this to your patients? Is it

time limited, eg, if a patient doesn't get it that change is easy and

happens now, you do... what?

 

Is your thesis a furtherence of the practitioner as the intanbible tool

of the Dao?

 

And please - talk to me like I'm a 2 year old, because I really want to

get this, and sometimes I do and sometimes it makes my hair hurt!

karen

 

sppdestiny wrote:

 

> Hi Folks,

>

> I am declaring today, 5.30.08, to mark the official death of

> humanistic,process oriented, psycho-emotional healing for all those

> who have reached a world-centric level of development.

>

> And thus we have the birth of a new medicine for a new humanity

> stepping forward from here......

>

> ------------------------

> A friend and student of mine named Sarah Van Hoy

> is on the faculty of Health Arts at Goddard College. I just received

> this note from her:

>

> " A little note from evolution - I was at my faculty retreat yesterday

> and we collectively decided that " process " in healing was done and

> that,as faculty, we would hold something else - step into the One

> Consciousness that is always there and move the world forward. This

> is the new mandate of Health Arts at Goddard. " -Sarah

>

> Isn't this fantastic? It's a big part of what I've been working for

> these last 6 years. We are witnessing the end of the " therapeutic "

> process where healing at the level of the heart and mind is thought to

> take time. Simply put, the part of us that needs more time to heal

> emotionally IS the disease itself in people who have reached a world

> centric level of development. Clinical practice, as well as life, have

> taught me that there are two sources of motivation competing for our

> attention. The ego is that wounded, traumatized part of ourselves that

> loves the process of healing but has no intention of ever being

> healed. Its sole motivation is to preserve the past. The authentic

> self, the spirit, doesn't need healing because nothing ever happened

> there. It's only interest is living with more integrity RIGHT NOW. And

> that's what holistic and integral healing is about-moving from a

> relatively divided state to increasing states of wholeness and

> integration.

>

> >From this perspective any modality that requires " process " is seen as

> strengthening the presence of the disease by reinforcing a

> dysfunctional relationship to time, thought, and feeling. It is my

> estimation that the minimum requirement for anyone to be considered a

> healer is that he or she has to have renounced the right to take any

> more time for healing past " wounds and traumas " . Of course, this

> renunciation could only meaningfully come from having fully

> discovered, and given one's self to,that part of one's self that is

> always more interested in creating the future than on overcoming one's

> past. This is a sign of maturity that suggests the person is truly

> more focused on living for the sake of the whole than on being self

> absorbed. And this means the practitioner is actually living the

> implications of the five-element model, or any holistic model, beyond

> a mere theoretical understanding.

>

> I'm just giving notice that a new core value system is arising in

> culture that obsoletes the " process " oriented, humanistic, values

> focused on the patient as being a victim who needs time to heal from

> his or her past. Just as the humanistic leanings of new age healing

> have supplanted the materialism of biomedicine these last 40 years, so

> too will this new core value system wash over and erase the new age

> values of the sensitive self, humanistic, psycho-emotional approach so

> rampant in the alternative medical field.

>

> Thus the of the newage influence in medicine that has contributed to

> so much nonsense and pretense under the auspices of " spirituality " and

> sensitive self " healing " comes to an end.

>

> It's not a question of " if " this transition will happen because it is

> happening right now as evidenced by Sarah's letter. Of course, what

> I'm pointing to is the leading edge of the highest medicine.

> Psycho-emotional healing is dead. Realization of the Self beyond the

> ego's emotional tides, right now, is the rising star in what may be

> the first truly spiritually based medicine to have appeared on the planet.

>

> Submitted for consideration.

>

> )

>

> Warm regards, Lonny Jarrett

>

>

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Lonny,

 

The ego is the falseness, illusion, Maya, the dis-ease.

 

Finding the true self and you are here and now.

 

Thanks for sharing.

 

On Fri, May 30, 2008 at 12:51 PM, sppdestiny <Revolution

wrote:

 

> Hi Folks,

>

> I am declaring today, 5.30.08, to mark the official death of

> humanistic,process oriented, psycho-emotional healing for all those

> who have reached a world-centric level of development.

>

> And thus we have the birth of a new medicine for a new humanity

> stepping forward from here......

>

> ------------------------

> A friend and student of mine named Sarah Van Hoy

> is on the faculty of Health Arts at Goddard College. I just received

> this note from her:

>

> " A little note from evolution - I was at my faculty retreat yesterday

> and we collectively decided that " process " in healing was done and

> that,as faculty, we would hold something else - step into the One

> Consciousness that is always there and move the world forward. This

> is the new mandate of Health Arts at Goddard. " -Sarah

>

> Isn't this fantastic? It's a big part of what I've been working for

> these last 6 years. We are witnessing the end of the " therapeutic "

> process where healing at the level of the heart and mind is thought to

> take time. Simply put, the part of us that needs more time to heal

> emotionally IS the disease itself in people who have reached a world

> centric level of development. Clinical practice, as well as life, have

> taught me that there are two sources of motivation competing for our

> attention. The ego is that wounded, traumatized part of ourselves that

> loves the process of healing but has no intention of ever being

> healed. Its sole motivation is to preserve the past. The authentic

> self, the spirit, doesn't need healing because nothing ever happened

> there. It's only interest is living with more integrity RIGHT NOW. And

> that's what holistic and integral healing is about-moving from a

> relatively divided state to increasing states of wholeness and

> integration.

>

> From this perspective any modality that requires " process " is seen as

> strengthening the presence of the disease by reinforcing a

> dysfunctional relationship to time, thought, and feeling. It is my

> estimation that the minimum requirement for anyone to be considered a

> healer is that he or she has to have renounced the right to take any

> more time for healing past " wounds and traumas " . Of course, this

> renunciation could only meaningfully come from having fully

> discovered, and given one's self to,that part of one's self that is

> always more interested in creating the future than on overcoming one's

> past. This is a sign of maturity that suggests the person is truly

> more focused on living for the sake of the whole than on being self

> absorbed. And this means the practitioner is actually living the

> implications of the five-element model, or any holistic model, beyond

> a mere theoretical understanding.

>

> I'm just giving notice that a new core value system is arising in

> culture that obsoletes the " process " oriented, humanistic, values

> focused on the patient as being a victim who needs time to heal from

> his or her past. Just as the humanistic leanings of new age healing

> have supplanted the materialism of biomedicine these last 40 years, so

> too will this new core value system wash over and erase the new age

> values of the sensitive self, humanistic, psycho-emotional approach so

> rampant in the alternative medical field.

>

> Thus the of the newage influence in medicine that has contributed to

> so much nonsense and pretense under the auspices of " spirituality " and

> sensitive self " healing " comes to an end.

>

> It's not a question of " if " this transition will happen because it is

> happening right now as evidenced by Sarah's letter. Of course, what

> I'm pointing to is the leading edge of the highest medicine.

> Psycho-emotional healing is dead. Realization of the Self beyond the

> ego's emotional tides, right now, is the rising star in what may be

> the first truly spiritually based medicine to have appeared on the planet.

>

> Submitted for consideration.

>

> )

>

> Warm regards, Lonny Jarrett

>

>

>

 

 

 

--

Robert Chu, PhD, L.Ac. QME

chusauli

 

See my webpages at: www.chusaulei.com

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Re: The end of process oriented healing.

 

Hi Lonny - I'm beginning to get a glimmer of what you've been talking

about, and have been trying to figure out how that practically plays out

in the treatment room. How do you present this to your patients? Is it

time limited, eg, if a patient doesn't get it that change is easy and

happens now, you do... what?

 

Lonny: Hi Karen, thank you for the thoughtful questions. The answer to

the one above constitutes the entire theoretical context and value

sphere of the two year course I teach-all clinical information is

referenced to this point.

 

In short, one has to recognize the developmental level of the

patient's value system in addition to whatever other diagnostic

information we might focus on. What values does the patient preport to

hold (usually a matter of self image), where are they actually living

as evidenced by their actions and relationship to their experience,

what is the size of the gap between what they've authentically

realized and how they are behaving?

 

In a developmental, evolutionary context, and from a spiritual

perspective, the initial stages of treatment involve supporting a

person to apply will sincerely to close the gap. Then, of course, more

will be revealed and another gap will need to be closed. This is

vertical development.

 

Diagnostically, any attachment one places in the way of closing this

gap is ego and, as physician/healers we need to understand the

physiological embodiment of this resistance to help move it at all

levels. The part of the person that motivates them to close the gap

" right now " is the authentic self (shen/zhi, sprit/will). The soul is

the " personal " part of each individual that longs to merge with the

absolute possibility of life and close the gap right now. It's voice

is the conscience and the authentic self is the motivating force of

all transformation, namely consciousness.

 

 

The ego's resistance to wholesome change is absolute and it's response

to being supported to close the gap between recognition and behavior

is usually expressed as violent opposition to the point of rage taking

the forms of arrogance (wood) and pride (metal).

 

 

What do I do in the face of resistance? I do what ever it takes.

People have more or less interest in development. Most, even those who

profess a spiritual core value system, just want to be better without

having to change. I endeavor to meet people alway one step beyond

where they are and encourage them to come forward-to take the part of

themselves that is serious about important things more seriously.

 

The general principle is that the degree to which a practitioner is

willing to compromise his or her highest ideals in clinical practice

is the degree to which he or she compromises them in life.

 

 

 

If we are talking about the authentic practice of a truly spiritually

based medicine we are talking about liberating a force in human beings

that will tear their life, as they know it presently, to pieces. There

is no school of Chinese medicine on the planet that gets anywhere near

imparting the skills to practitioners to get anywhere near this level

of integrity in practice.

 

Frankly, what most practitioners consider to be " the spiritual

practice of medicine " amounts to little more than helping the most

privileged people in society " feel " better while doing nothing to help

them evolve beyond their own self-centeredness.

 

 

 

 

The " wounded, sensitive self " has no intention of ever healing and the

authentic self was never traumatized. In other words " healing " at what

we might call a " psychospiritual " level (I don't like the term)

doesn't take time-it's based merely on a shift of attention from one

part of our experience (the ego) to another part (the authentic self)

and that can occur in a trillionth of a second.

 

 

 

Points and herbs can facilitate the movement of attention from the

wounded ego to the authentic self. But it's who the practitioner IS

that creates the motivating force of such change. And it's the

practitioner's depth of grounding in that Self and ability to

articulate a context for living what one sees in the higher state of

the " healing " experience that can motivate a choice in the patient to

do whatever is necessary to not just " go back " to the previous state.

To make a higher state a stage will has to be applied and that can

only ever come from the patient. This is determined by the quality of

a person's character, and care for something greater than him or her self.

 

Such a shift in a patient would in large part be predicated on the

practitioners development, the nature of his or her self

identification, the degree of actual conviction the practitioner had

in the authentic self, and the practitioner's firm stand to only

relate to that part of the patient that has always been, is, and could

only ever be-well, sane, and strong. And then, of course, we need to

help provide a context in which to live what has been realized.

 

Once these conditions are met the recipe for therapeutic relationship is:

 

51% truth %49 compassion

 

 

If we lived in an authentic spiritually based culture we wouldn't have

to be so concerned with this. But we don't, we live in a wholly

materialistic culture where CM might be the closest many people ever

get to the potential to see through themselves. As far as I'm

concerned the only authentic point of spirituality is to change

culture so I'm happy to play whatever role I can. CM is powerful in

this regard and so that role has the potential to be significant.

 

 

Prior to awakening to the authentic self the purpose of medicine is to

remove the physiological obstacles to clarity. After awakening, the

role of medicine is to remove the embodied karma of all past negative

choices (what we call blood stagnation, damp, wind etc.) and to tonify

the deficiencies (the jing, qi, shen, the physiological substrates of

authentic self)

..

Prior to taking the step away from attachment to victimization by

one's past one the greatest fear is moving ahead (because ego is

running the show). After taking the step one's greatest fear is of

ever going back to that small contraction of the " wounded " self.

 

 

 

 

 

 

karen: Is your thesis a furtherence of the practitioner as the

intangible tool of the Dao?

 

Lonny: No. The core value system of Daoism arose in a pre-modern

superstitious culture. As significant as the teaching was, it now no

longer goes far enough. Time is not circular. The Daoists emphasized

" merging with " some force and surrendering to it. I'm pointing to

going one step beyond " merging with " . That's the recognition that

consciousness is the motivating force of cosmic development and that

human consciousness is the leading edge of that force. I'm talking

about getting in the drivers seat and deliberately taking the process

forward through our own choices-which begin with what part of our

internal experience do we identify with?

 

 

 

 

Karen: And please - talk to me like I'm a 2 year old, because I really

want to

get this, and sometimes I do and sometimes it makes my hair hurt!

 

 

Lonny: Out of respect I have talked to the person asking the

questions. If anything isn't clear I'm glad to continue the

conversation. It's good to stretch-the sensation of your " hair

hurting " is your neurons growing across your corpus callosum! Warm

regards, Lonny

[Guest guest]

>>>kradams1 wrote: Hi Lonny - I'm beginning to get a glimmer of

what you've been talking about, and have been trying to figure out how

that practically plays out in the treatment room. How do you present

this to your patients? Is it time limited, eg, if a patient doesn't

get it that change is easy and happens now, you do... what?

<<<

 

Re: end of process oriented healing - First reading struck me as _out

there_ / _over the top_. Then I recalled a phrase I once wrote during

a more philosophical period: _Cure is the same thing as your own life

progression from one moment to the next_ ( ! )

 

If you consider that millions of changes DO occur EACH second in your

own body, you are in fact NOT the same as you were just a moment ago.

_ALREADY_ transforming. WOW! You made it! Not just you, but

EVERYTHING is different, new each moment. To _catch_ that perception

is to re-awaken the awe and wonder of a child, in which everything is

NEW experience, full of possibility.

 

For me, _a process_ can simply refer to a broader view of whatever it

is that we go through. Also, I still believe in the validity of

_processing_ old emotional content (and especially the somatic

component _residing_ in body areas), BUT this CAN optimally be an

almost instantaneous acknowledgment and release without stopping to

put a label on it.

 

Buying into _Process_ (as I understand Lonny's use of the term) means:

1) being stuck in the past (tell that to the the 12-step and various

other support groups that endlessly review the same past _wrong_

behaviour (your own or others').

and 2) believing that healing is something that is _GOING to happen

AFTER something else has completed_ (drug action, surgery, etc).

 

In contrast, discovering _Realization_ means acceptance:

1) that Healing IS underway; look on it with wonder, gratitude, and an

inner sense of power that we all can and DO direct our own body's

workings WHETHER OR NOT we are assisted by herbs, drugs, acupuncture,

or anyone's intervention.

2) that constant change is reality that is probably going to be

different from yesterday, and doesn't have to match anyone's

expectation of tomorrow.

and 3) there is beauty and correctness in all things that demands we

continually adjust our own perceptions and let go of _shoulds_.

 

I like the analogy of an old tree: full of gnarly lumps, fungus

growing at the base, a broken branch here, a dead limb there, bark

falling off, insects crawling throughout, creaking in the wind, and

YET stately, majestic, at peace, living it's purpose, and full of

strength and beauty in it's own way. Maybe I can remember this when

I'm old and creaky. Wo3 san4bu4 dao4lu4

 

joe reid 06-11-08

www.jreidomd.blogspot.com

[Guest guest]

hi lonny: this is all wonderful, flowery, presumptuous language, but

trtruly, have you actually dealt with a survivor of extreme trauma?

have you dealt with a person who doesn't adhere to your own particular

paparadigm of reality? good luck trying to heal a survivor of abuse by

blaming them for their world view. the reason they survived was BECAUSE

of their defense mechanisms. i think that unless you allow yourself to

feel compassion and allow others the healing process, you will NEVER be

an effective healer, much like some misinformed people who have

unrealistic ideas of 'abundance' and spend more money than they are

able to pay back because they have been brainwashed with an idea that

faith alone will bring money (which they feel is abundance) into their

lives. tcm requires patience, time and effort. this is not to

discount the importance of trust, commitment, and positive attitude in

healing... it is very important. us becoming blind the the particular

needs of our patients should not be part of the equation.

 

marie

 

>

> > Hi Folks,

> >

> > I am declaring today, 5.30.08, to mark the official death of

> > humanistic,process oriented, psycho-emotional healing for all those

> > who have reached a world-centric level of development.

> >

>> > )

> >

> > Warm regards, Lonny Jarrett

> >

> >

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

hi lonny: this is all wonderful, flowery, presumptuous language, but

truly, have you actually dealt with a survivor of extreme trauma?

have you dealt with a person who doesn't adhere to your own particular

paparadigm of reality?

 

 

Lonny: Hi Marie. Yes I have. In fact, in 1995 I published a series of

3 articles in the American Journal of Acupuncture on using CM to treat

trauma from Rape, Incest, and Divorce. I've also published a case

study of one severely abused woman who was on lithium and thorazine

for over 10 years who has now been drug free since 1995.

 

 

It is interesting to note that some people in concentration camps

aided the Nazi's and others made the CHOICE to be pillars of strength

for everyone else around them.

 

Of course, some people have been so damaged that they simply will

not recover. But this is often a choice. And, for the most part, the

client population we deal with are not the most victimized people on

the planet. It's rare that I've met a person not capable of absolute

healing psychologically/emotionally-who didn't have organic brain damage.

 

I have seen severely abused people make the choice to heal and do it!

And I've seen others who saw the potential to heal turn their backs on

the grace of god because they were more interested in remaining victims.

 

I have very few patient's who grew up in Bosnia or Darfur. The average

person, even though some have suffered, really haven't suffered that

much compared to the other 90% of humanity who can't afford to pay

$50/week for an acupuncture treatment. In fact, anyone who can pay

this amount has a better standard of living than the kings and queens

of antiquity.

 

The potential of a human being's life, right now, is worth infinitely

more than ANYTHING that could have happened to him or her in the past.

And it's that potential which is ultimately real in any therapeutic

context.

 

Of course, some time, must be taken to heal. My point is that the

value system of newage healing posits infinite time for process with

no END in site, ever.

 

I am also making the point that the part of us that WANTS healing to

take time IS the disease.

 

Thank you, Lonny

[Guest guest]

Marie,

 

I have dealt with many patients that have survived tremendous trauma.

While their defense mechanisms helped them survive the trauma initially,

they generally become a major liability in their lives later. Carl Jung

once said that neurosis is a substitute for legitimate suffering.

Healing for these people isn't about strengthening their defense

mechanisms, it is about helping them realize that they are not a slave

to their past self and that their defense mechanisms need a new job in

the present to live a happy and fulfilled life. You are right, that as

a healer we can't be blind to the needs of our patients, but we also

can't be hypnotized by their trauma and sucked into their world. They

come to us to find their way out and the only way out is to challenge

their need for their defense mechanisms so they can transform their

trauma into growth instead of self identity. They need to move from

victim to empowered individual. They can't do that when their identity

is attached to their wounds and we offer them no service at all to

identify with their wounds either. Compassion is to meet with them

where they are at in order to bring them out of their suffering, not to

hang out with them in their suffering.

 

Chris Vedeler L.Ac.

 

shamanist1 wrote:

> hi lonny: this is all wonderful, flowery, presumptuous language, but

> trtruly, have you actually dealt with a survivor of extreme trauma?

> have you dealt with a person who doesn't adhere to your own particular

> paparadigm of reality? good luck trying to heal a survivor of abuse by

> blaming them for their world view. the reason they survived was BECAUSE

> of their defense mechanisms. i think that unless you allow yourself to

> feel compassion and allow others the healing process, you will NEVER be

> an effective healer, much like some misinformed people who have

> unrealistic ideas of 'abundance' and spend more money than they are

> able to pay back because they have been brainwashed with an idea that

> faith alone will bring money (which they feel is abundance) into their

> lives. tcm requires patience, time and effort. this is not to

> discount the importance of trust, commitment, and positive attitude in

> healing... it is very important. us becoming blind the the particular

> needs of our patients should not be part of the equation.

>

> marie

>

>

[Guest guest]

Quoth:

I am declaring today, 5.30.08, to mark the official death of humanistic,process

oriented, psycho-emotional healing for all those who have reached a

world-centric level of development.

~~ Dr. L.S. Jarrett

---

 

I'm sure glad that there's no ego in this " declaration, " otherwise I'd be really

confused.

 

I used to be on the nourishing destiny chat group, but gave it the boot when I

found it less an exploration in Chinese medicine than a forum for expounding the

" evolutionary " views of Mr. Andrew Cohen.

 

Dr. Jarrett has such strong views about the ego, that he once stated, I

paraphrase, " were I to find the ego on the street I would kill it. " The energy

behind the statement did not strike me as being much different than what might

be made by the zealot who finds a " jihadist " " rapist " or whatever boogey-man

that serves as object of fear.

 

I have never been given a satisfactory explanation as to why the evolutionist

discourse of Cohen is superior to the teachings of Jesus, Buddha or Zhuang Zi.

The conceit of modernity whether dressed in materialist or evolutionary garb is

conceit nonetheless. From Jarrett's perspective calling Daoism a superstition

is part of the justifiable destruction that would find good company with

President Bushes war in Iraq/Afghanistan and Mao's Cultural Revolution.

 

We already know that the Zen statement " If you find the Buddha on the road, kill

him " means looking beyond oneself for release is misguided. The Buddha says

" There's no great refuge, where man goes he takes his passions with him. " What

are the passions? Mainly anger and fear. These are the overwhelming themes that

I extract from Dr. Jarrett's views.

 

One of my intellectual heroes, Robert Anton Wilson, said he something about not

being able to follow anyone who can't laugh. Alas, I guess I'll be sticking

with Zhuang Zi.

 

shifts and giggles,

y.c., EFT-Adv

 

~~like orthodoxy? visit my blog. http://TheYangZhu.blogspot.com

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Chinese medicine was indigenous to people who had Confucianism, Daoism and

Buddhism. Confucianism taught one to find the middle doctrine, Buddhism the

middle way, and Daoism the center. This is what awoke them.

 

During earlier dynasties, they broke mysticism and Shamanism away from

treatment. You cannot expect *Yi Liao* (medical treatment) to open you to

awareness of here and now or bring them to enlightenment. Medical system

can only buy time for people who want to make changes in their lifestyle to

rid one of " dis-ease " .

 

 

On Wed, Jun 11, 2008 at 11:03 AM, sppdestiny <Revolution

wrote:

 

> Re: The end of process oriented healing.

>

> Hi Lonny - I'm beginning to get a glimmer of what you've been talking

> about, and have been trying to figure out how that practically plays out

> in the treatment room. How do you present this to your patients? Is it

> time limited, eg, if a patient doesn't get it that change is easy and

> happens now, you do... what?

>

> Lonny: Hi Karen, thank you for the thoughtful questions. The answer to

> the one above constitutes the entire theoretical context and value

> sphere of the two year course I teach-all clinical information is

> referenced to this point.

>

> In short, one has to recognize the developmental level of the

> patient's value system in addition to whatever other diagnostic

> information we might focus on. What values does the patient preport to

> hold (usually a matter of self image), where are they actually living

> as evidenced by their actions and relationship to their experience,

> what is the size of the gap between what they've authentically

> realized and how they are behaving?

>

> In a developmental, evolutionary context, and from a spiritual

> perspective, the initial stages of treatment involve supporting a

> person to apply will sincerely to close the gap. Then, of course, more

> will be revealed and another gap will need to be closed. This is

> vertical development.

>

> Diagnostically, any attachment one places in the way of closing this

> gap is ego and, as physician/healers we need to understand the

> physiological embodiment of this resistance to help move it at all

> levels. The part of the person that motivates them to close the gap

> " right now " is the authentic self (shen/zhi, sprit/will). The soul is

> the " personal " part of each individual that longs to merge with the

> absolute possibility of life and close the gap right now. It's voice

> is the conscience and the authentic self is the motivating force of

> all transformation, namely consciousness.

>

> The ego's resistance to wholesome change is absolute and it's response

> to being supported to close the gap between recognition and behavior

> is usually expressed as violent opposition to the point of rage taking

> the forms of arrogance (wood) and pride (metal).

>

> What do I do in the face of resistance? I do what ever it takes.

> People have more or less interest in development. Most, even those who

> profess a spiritual core value system, just want to be better without

> having to change. I endeavor to meet people alway one step beyond

> where they are and encourage them to come forward-to take the part of

> themselves that is serious about important things more seriously.

>

> The general principle is that the degree to which a practitioner is

> willing to compromise his or her highest ideals in clinical practice

> is the degree to which he or she compromises them in life.

>

> If we are talking about the authentic practice of a truly spiritually

> based medicine we are talking about liberating a force in human beings

> that will tear their life, as they know it presently, to pieces. There

> is no school of Chinese medicine on the planet that gets anywhere near

> imparting the skills to practitioners to get anywhere near this level

> of integrity in practice.

>

> Frankly, what most practitioners consider to be " the spiritual

> practice of medicine " amounts to little more than helping the most

> privileged people in society " feel " better while doing nothing to help

> them evolve beyond their own self-centeredness.

>

> The " wounded, sensitive self " has no intention of ever healing and the

> authentic self was never traumatized. In other words " healing " at what

> we might call a " psychospiritual " level (I don't like the term)

> doesn't take time-it's based merely on a shift of attention from one

> part of our experience (the ego) to another part (the authentic self)

> and that can occur in a trillionth of a second.

>

> Points and herbs can facilitate the movement of attention from the

> wounded ego to the authentic self. But it's who the practitioner IS

> that creates the motivating force of such change. And it's the

> practitioner's depth of grounding in that Self and ability to

> articulate a context for living what one sees in the higher state of

> the " healing " experience that can motivate a choice in the patient to

> do whatever is necessary to not just " go back " to the previous state.

> To make a higher state a stage will has to be applied and that can

> only ever come from the patient. This is determined by the quality of

> a person's character, and care for something greater than him or her self.

>

> Such a shift in a patient would in large part be predicated on the

> practitioners development, the nature of his or her self

> identification, the degree of actual conviction the practitioner had

> in the authentic self, and the practitioner's firm stand to only

> relate to that part of the patient that has always been, is, and could

> only ever be-well, sane, and strong. And then, of course, we need to

> help provide a context in which to live what has been realized.

>

> Once these conditions are met the recipe for therapeutic relationship is:

>

> 51% truth %49 compassion

>

> If we lived in an authentic spiritually based culture we wouldn't have

> to be so concerned with this. But we don't, we live in a wholly

> materialistic culture where CM might be the closest many people ever

> get to the potential to see through themselves. As far as I'm

> concerned the only authentic point of spirituality is to change

> culture so I'm happy to play whatever role I can. CM is powerful in

> this regard and so that role has the potential to be significant.

>

> Prior to awakening to the authentic self the purpose of medicine is to

> remove the physiological obstacles to clarity. After awakening, the

> role of medicine is to remove the embodied karma of all past negative

> choices (what we call blood stagnation, damp, wind etc.) and to tonify

> the deficiencies (the jing, qi, shen, the physiological substrates of

> authentic self)

> .

> Prior to taking the step away from attachment to victimization by

> one's past one the greatest fear is moving ahead (because ego is

> running the show). After taking the step one's greatest fear is of

> ever going back to that small contraction of the " wounded " self.

>

> karen: Is your thesis a furtherence of the practitioner as the

> intangible tool of the Dao?

>

> Lonny: No. The core value system of Daoism arose in a pre-modern

> superstitious culture. As significant as the teaching was, it now no

> longer goes far enough. Time is not circular. The Daoists emphasized

> " merging with " some force and surrendering to it. I'm pointing to

> going one step beyond " merging with " . That's the recognition that

> consciousness is the motivating force of cosmic development and that

> human consciousness is the leading edge of that force. I'm talking

> about getting in the drivers seat and deliberately taking the process

> forward through our own choices-which begin with what part of our

> internal experience do we identify with?

>

> Karen: And please - talk to me like I'm a 2 year old, because I really

> want to

> get this, and sometimes I do and sometimes it makes my hair hurt!

>

> Lonny: Out of respect I have talked to the person asking the

> questions. If anything isn't clear I'm glad to continue the

> conversation. It's good to stretch-the sensation of your " hair

> hurting " is your neurons growing across your corpus callosum! Warm

> regards, Lonny

>

>

>

 

 

 

--

Robert Chu, PhD, L.Ac. QME

chusauli

 

See my webpages at: www.chusaulei.com

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Chris,

 

That was brilliant and is the basis of holistic psychiatry which uses a lot

of TCM (well many practitioners do).

 

It's like parenthood- the ultimate goal is to make someone independent not

keep them dependent which is what much of psychiatry and much of therapy

does.

 

None of this involves blaming anyone. In fact the sooner the individual can

stop blaming people in their lives, learn to forgive and let go, the better

off they are.

 

Now THAT is the work!

 

 

 

 

 

Chinese Medicine

Chinese Medicine On Behalf Of

Christopher Vedeler

Thursday, June 12, 2008 11:09 AM

Chinese Medicine

Re: Re: The end of process oriented healing.

 

 

 

Marie,

 

I have dealt with many patients that have survived tremendous trauma.

While their defense mechanisms helped them survive the trauma initially,

they generally become a major liability in their lives later. Carl Jung

once said that neurosis is a substitute for legitimate suffering.

Healing for these people isn't about strengthening their defense

mechanisms, it is about helping them realize that they are not a slave

to their past self and that their defense mechanisms need a new job in

the present to live a happy and fulfilled life. You are right, that as

a healer we can't be blind to the needs of our patients, but we also

can't be hypnotized by their trauma and sucked into their world. They

come to us to find their way out and the only way out is to challenge

their need for their defense mechanisms so they can transform their

trauma into growth instead of self identity. They need to move from

victim to empowered individual. They can't do that when their identity

is attached to their wounds and we offer them no service at all to

identify with their wounds either. Compassion is to meet with them

where they are at in order to bring them out of their suffering, not to

hang out with them in their suffering.

 

Chris Vedeler L.Ac.

 

shamanist1 wrote:

> hi lonny: this is all wonderful, flowery, presumptuous language, but

> trtruly, have you actually dealt with a survivor of extreme trauma?

> have you dealt with a person who doesn't adhere to your own particular

> paparadigm of reality? good luck trying to heal a survivor of abuse by

> blaming them for their world view. the reason they survived was BECAUSE

> of their defense mechanisms. i think that unless you allow yourself to

> feel compassion and allow others the healing process, you will NEVER be

> an effective healer, much like some misinformed people who have

> unrealistic ideas of 'abundance' and spend more money than they are

> able to pay back because they have been brainwashed with an idea that

> faith alone will bring money (which they feel is abundance) into their

> lives. tcm requires patience, time and effort. this is not to

> discount the importance of trust, commitment, and positive attitude in

> healing... it is very important. us becoming blind the the particular

> needs of our patients should not be part of the equation.

>

> marie

>

>

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

You cannot expect *Yi Liao* (medical treatment) to open you to

awareness of here and now or bring them to enlightenment. Medical system

can only buy time for people who want to make changes in their

lifestyle torid one of " dis-ease " .

 

Lonny: My experience is that, when I enter the room after a treatment

my patients often don't know where they are or how long they've been

there. Hence, an experience beyond time and space. Very often they

express gratitude, interest, openness, humility, and other virtues

often associated with enlightened awareness when 30 minutes previously

this was anything but the case.

 

I have seen people with one treatment and a 4 day application of herbs

express in no uncertain terms that they knew they were free of 30

years of victimization in relationship to a life circumstance. I have

seen some people hold this position and never go back. And I have seen

others turn their backs on what they saw and wholly deny their

previous impassioned declaration of freedom-all because of what they

happened to be feeling in THAT moment.

 

It is unfortunate that we live in a materialistic, shallow, culture

instead of one where medicine expresses the cultures enlightened

principles-such as, for example, the therapeutic value of not

recognizing victimization to be real. Or the value of behavioral

change, rather than a shift in feeling states, being the ultimate goal

of treatment. So, in this case, medicine will have to contribute to

creating such a culture. And I believe we have a medicine that is

rooted in the values of spiritual change and development that is well

suited to make such a positive contribution in creating such a

culture. Am I Wrong?

[Guest guest]

Hi Chris,

 

Your response to Marie was succinct and perfect. Warm regards -Lonny

[Guest guest]

These spiritual traditions

have developed cultivations to assist in doing that for the simple

reason most people do not realize it on their own and need guidance

and pointers.

 

You mention your success with patients, are there patients that did

not obtain this life changing and life maintaining realization, if so

what percentage of all your patients have not been able to realize this?

 

 

Lonny: Hi David. A great question. Thank you.

 

I agree with you that it takes everything to live what is realized

beyond the mind in the world. I'd say that spiritual experience is

meaningless except to the degree that it results in a change of

individual behavior and ultimately changes culture. The great

traditions

focus on individual attainment and so the pinnacle of practice seems

to have been retreat from the world as a metaphor for the escape from

incarnation that the practitioner was seeking through spiritual

practice. One can understand this in a world where the average persons

destiny was to die miserably at the age of 30.

 

Now, more people live in better conditions than at any previous

point in history. With 7 billion of us nearly on the planet it strikes

me that the importance of " enlightenment " (from a medical perspective,

Sanity) has shifted from an individual to a group phenomena.

 

I totally agree with you about hard work and

" cultivation/purification " crucial to " holding " what one has seen in a

higher " state " experience and making it a " stage " of development. A

central point I'm making is that CM can play a powerful roll in doing

this and providing the support that people to develop. But making a

higher " state " experience (which CM DOES provide) a new " Stage " means

that there HAS TO BE a vertical context held in the practitioners

life, in the treatment room, and at the heart of the medicine. That

means recognizing a hierarchy of values.

 

But there isn't such a context!

 

 

Why? In the first place the Asian traditions historically didn't

really have a vertical context. If your going to consider the universe

to be an illusion, that pretty eliminates verticality, natural

hierarchy, and evolution from the picture. " I know it " seems " like

there's evolution but nothing is ever " really " changing " " nothing is

new " etc etc. Just look at the five-element model or the Chinese model

of stems and branches. Just circles with no evolution implied. Sure

there were developmental stages, but these were all thought to

pre-exist with no room for the emergence of anything new. The Asian

traditions referenced everything to ZERO because zero was the only

absolute that they knew. " life is suffering, life is an illusion, see

through yourself back to the unborn, escape the wheel, and abide in

emptiness until you die, then your free. "

 

I can understand that orientation in a pre-modern world but it seems a

little odd to me that the motivating force for people who have had it

as good as we have should be to escape! In the 1800s deep time

development was discovered, lo and behold the big lizard bones weren't

dragons, they were dinosaurs. This marked a dramatic change in human

perspective. It demonstrated that the idea of an " end state " -

" nirvana " , " heaven " ,- so prevalent in the traditions was a myth.

 

Tielhard De Chardin (a jesuit priest who was punished by the church

for embracing Darwin as the future of Christianity. They sent him to

China as punishment and he discovered " peking man " -so they then made

him live in NYC 'till he died and his kids published his life work)

and Sri Aurobindu (who was imprisoned by the English for leading a

revolution against them prior to Ghandi) realized that the human

beings capacity to cognize deep time development literally represented

a simple fact: The universe was awakening to its own nature through

the awakening human being. This is radical and bears contemplation.

Both authors have written extensively on the implications of evolution

for Christianity and the Eastern traditions.

 

The implication is that if being and non-being are indeed one, as the

traditions suggest, then one cannot any longer dismiss existence as an

illusion and one HAS to account for the creative impulse as a force

that is also absolute! That means all things can no longer be

referenced to emptiness alone. And what is the most powerful vehicle

through which this creative force can enter manifestation? It is the

human capacity to make a freely made choice. It was at this point that

natural selection switched from being an external force that acts on

us to an internal force that we are responsible for. Isn't it simply

true that all the great threats to life on the planet have been a

matter of human choice for the last 150 years or so? This wasn't true

previously.

 

Along with the discovery of evolution came the industrial revolution

at which point people in the developed world were liberated from the

elements. This is important because it was exactly at this point that

the internally generated syndrome patterns took precedence in Chinese

medicine over the external patterns. Simply put, when people have free

time and disposable income and their survival needs are met the begin

to suffocate in their own heads.

 

It's not a surprise then that Freud would arrive at exactly this

time with his psychological theories. It's also easy to understand how

self reflective consciousness would begin to be distorted into

narcissism as we became so highly individuated and placed all our

focus of attention on our own thoughts and feelings. It's why there is

so much self loathing, alienation, and ambivalence in the post modern

human being. Doesn't it make sense that " unconditional love " would

become the highest value in a culture that believed in relative morality?

 

I would see the untying of this existential knot and the clear

perception of the Self rooted in emptiness and embracing a creative

passion for engaging with life (as opposed to escaping) as the goal to

liberating the postmodern human. Waking up to that which never changes

because then we can be rooted in the part of ourselves that was never

traumatized and waking up to the evolutionary impulse because that is

the part of ourselves that has no relationship to our past and only

wants to create the future with more integrity right now.

 

--------

 

As to your question

 

;O)

 

There are several levels of answer.

 

A. Physically my patients do as well as we'd expect. Most get

significantly better and those with degenerative conditions appreciate

the relief and increased perspective.

 

I teach everyone who is amenable to meditate.

 

B. Many patients have insights and never go back and some turn their

backs on what they've seen. Hard to know real percentages because, of

course, I don't know what happens t people after they leave.

 

 

C. More and more are having real awakenings at their level of

development. Some people are sincerely moved and others fail to find

any deeper implication that they should, ought to, or are responsible

for living up to anything they have seen.

 

The interesting question becomes " WHY don't people really transform in

a meaningful way and live the higher implications of what they have seen? "

 

And the answer in most of the people who come to us or practice any

form of spirituality is that the postmodern value system doesn't

recognize hierarchy. It doesn't recognize evolution, the importance of

human choice or have any vertical context. It has a relativistic " you

have your truth and I have my truth and nobody knows the truth so no

one can judge me " value system. It's anti evolutionary and so " nothing

is higher than anything else " . In this context why would anyone feel

the moral obligation to live up to anything? In fact, the postmodern

human doesn't even believe in morality and thinks it's just a matter

of perspective! I've treated buddhist priests to help get them off

prozac! Even 30 years of rigorous practice will not result in

development in a post-modern human being outside of a vertical context.

 

TO sum, I'd see the post-modern condition as the greatest block, at

the top of the spiral that needs attention now, at this point in

history. These are the people who can afford to come see us and the

condition I'm talking about describes most of our patients and

ourselves. I have absolute conviction in CM as a tool for awakening

human beings. I've only ever been primarily interested in CM in this

regard and now I'm interested in creating a culture where there exists

a context to make the greater insights the medicine can afford us stick.

 

If this existed in culture, then medicine would all ready express

those values. I find medicine though can be a powerful tool to change

culture.

 

 

Warm regards, Lonny Jarrett

[Guest guest]

Hi David,

 

I'd suggest that, in fact, the Daoists weren't really talking

about evolution-not according to any sense of the word as used by

Aurobindu or Chardin or any current evolutionary thinker. In fact, the

Daoists main thesis was that " evolution " involved a " return back to " a

prior state. The dao, the One, the primordial unity, the infant, the

ocean, call it what you will. The point was to return to emptiness,

realize the world was an illusion, and rest there. They only looked

back to the " good old days when everyone lived in harmony with the

dao " . This was @500 bc and they were venerating cavemen prior to the

existence of culture which was seen as a fall from original nature and

NOT an evolution. They thought the abacus represented a distancing

from original nature and we should return to counting by tying knots

in rope. They thought you should " live your life in a town hearing the

dogs bark in the next town and never meet their owners " -Not exactly

social and not going to fulfill the promise of enlightenment on a

planet with 7 billion people on it.

 

 

They certainly were about " transformation " but not " evolution " in any

meaningful sense of the way I'm using the term. I will agree though

that of all the Asian traditions Daoism most easily makes the

transition to embrace the principles of an evolutionary theism because

the truly did value fluid, adaptable, and flexible consciousness. I

would say that an understanding of evolution is exactly the place that

science and spirituality meet. I'd say that no medicine can really be

claimed to be holistic or integral without a deep understanding of

evolution and it's relationship to spiritual development.

 

 

Warm regards, Lonny

[Guest guest]

In my post of 06-11(which slipped by without comment) I tried to

carefully stress the aspect of _acceptance_.

1) Acceptance of the realities of trauma, _victims_, and suffering in

general. The_ self that was never traumatized_ is NOT the same as the

very real person (and physical body) which WAS. To deny that is an

affront to many people the world over who are not up to mental /

spiritual gymnastics.

2) Acceptance that not all healing is necessarily going to go in the

direction (or rate) anyone might want / prefer it to go.

3) Acceptance of people who don't meet your idea of perfect,

beautiful, spiritual, evolved, or anything else.

 

This mandatorily includes respect for the value of anyone's _PERSONAL_

choices (excluding choices that clearly and directly harm others)

WITHOUT imposing value judgment on those choices as inappropriate and

unacceptable. Why? Because first of all, we should understand that

many things that people do, they do because those behaviors _work_ on

some level and effectively serve some purpose.

 

Is it only patients who _choose to hold on to their trauma_, or other

people (including doctors and therapists) who choose to wield

authority for the purpose of CONTROL over victims and sufferers, often

for the purpose of making a dollar and glorifying themselves with

undeserved righteousness. (not to mention supporting the

pharmaceutical, legal, war, and quite a few other industries)

 

The supposed right to control other people, animals, and the planet in

general often comes down to establishing and perpetuating social

dominance, with the pretense of _knowing what is best_.

 

What change does the client / patient really want? What are they

ready for? I believe that when you hit it right, _BANG!_, it can be

as if it were effortless, as if it ALREADY happened, and you merely

_notice_.

 

Maybe a little like _destiny_. Or maybe a little like shifting into a

parallel universe where nothing ever needs changing.

 

But, in my view, it does not require _vertical hierarchy_. It

requires _ALLOWING_.

 

joe reid 06-13-08

www.jreidomd.blogspot.com

 

>>>

Re: end of process oriented healing - First reading struck me as _out

there_ / _over the top_. Then I recalled a phrase I once wrote during

a more philosophical period: _Cure is the same thing as your own life

progression from one moment to the next_ ( ! )

 

If you consider that millions of changes DO occur EACH second in your

own body, you are in fact NOT the same as you were just a moment ago.

_ALREADY_ transforming. WOW! You made it! Not just you, but

EVERYTHING is different, new each moment. To _catch_ that perception

is to re-awaken the awe and wonder of a child, in which everything is

NEW experience, full of possibility.

 

For me, _a process_ can simply refer to a broader view of whatever it

is that we go through. Also, I still believe in the validity of

_processing_ old emotional content (and especially the somatic

component _residing_ in body areas), BUT this CAN optimally be an

almost instantaneous acknowledgment and release without stopping to

put a label on it.

 

Buying into _Process_ (as I understand Lonny's use of the term) means:

1) being stuck in the past (tell that to the the 12-step and various

other support groups that endlessly review the same past _wrong_

behaviour (your own or others').

and 2) believing that healing is something that is _GOING to happen

AFTER something else has completed_ (drug action, surgery, etc).

 

In contrast, discovering _Realization_ means acceptance:

1) that Healing IS underway; look on it with wonder, gratitude, and an

inner sense of power that we all can and DO direct our own body's

workings WHETHER OR NOT we are assisted by herbs, drugs, acupuncture,

or anyone's intervention.

2) that constant change is reality that is probably going to be

different from yesterday, and doesn't have to match anyone's

expectation of tomorrow.

and 3) there is beauty and correctness in all things that demands we

continually adjust our own perceptions and let go of _shoulds_.

 

I like the analogy of an old tree: full of gnarly lumps, fungus

growing at the base, a broken branch here, a dead limb there, bark

falling off, insects crawling throughout, creaking in the wind, and

YET stately, majestic, at peace, living it's purpose, and full of

strength and beauty in it's own way. Maybe I can remember this when

I'm old and creaky. Wo3 san4bu4 dao4lu4

 

joe reid 06-11-08

www.jreidomd.blogspot.com

<<<

[Guest guest]

Hi Lonny,

 

---(Lonny)

I've treated buddhist priests to help get them off prozac!

---

 

What a statement. So because I have 3 emergency room doctors, 1 biochemical

researcher, 1 neurobiologist, and a lawyer in my clinic it means what?

The Buddha was clear; illness and death cannot be avoided. So what if one of

" your " priests gets put on your herb formula, then gets a teaching from their

teacher and is able to stop your formula, what then?

 

---(Lonny)

Even 30 years of rigorous practice will not result in

development in a post-modern human being outside of a vertical context.

---

 

These are assertions made out of the context of reality. Buddhism and buddhists

are far from perfect. This is kind of the point. The reality of it all, so to

speak.

It'd be nice to hear of your imperfections, it's be a dynamic, enlightening

story I am sure.

 

With respect and confusion,

Hugo

 

 

 

________

Sent from Mail.

A Smarter Email http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html

 

 

[Guest guest]

Crew,

 

In their book Breath Walk, Kalsa and Bhajan cite a book by a Harvard

psychiatrist Ed Howell (1999) that sought to explain the paradoxical rise in

psychological disorders with the rise in affluence.

 

The first thing that comes to my mind is psychology creating a market for its

products and services, but Howell concluded that the rise has much more to do

with a lack of connectedness.

 

Jarrett is very right that we're not bad off materially, but in terms of true

connection, well, be might not be as rich as we think. Most people who seek

alternative care along the lines of CM seem to do so because they're actually

looking to connect.

 

y.c., EFT-Adv

http://vytalpathways.com