abdominal acupuncture

[Guest guest]

Hi all,

 

Can anyone tell me more about abdominal acupuncture as I have seen it

recently used with dramatic effects.

 

Is it really only 20 years old as some authors stipulate or much older.

 

Furthermore, are there any good books about it?

 

Thanks

Nial

[Guest guest]

Hi Nial,

 

I studied abdominal acupuncture (Fu Zhen), whilst i was in Beijing a

few years ago. I also meet the inventor Dr Bo and conducted an

interview with him, see

http://www.attiliodalberto.com/articles/Zhiyun%20Bo%20Interview.pdf

 

He has written a book, which is available in Chinese and Italian. When

i spoke to him in 2004, he was having the book translated into

English, although i haven't seen it and don't know where to buy it.

 

To be honest, i looked deeper into the theory years ago, which he laid

out in his Chinese book, but found it to be a little shaky. You can

decide for yourself when the English version of the book is released.

 

Regards,

 

Attilio

www.chinesemedicinetimes.com

 

Chinese Medicine , " nial_sawa "

<nial.sawa wrote:

>

> Hi all,

>

> Can anyone tell me more about abdominal acupuncture as I have seen it

> recently used with dramatic effects.

>

> Is it really only 20 years old as some authors stipulate or much older.

>

> Furthermore, are there any good books about it?

>

> Thanks

> Nial

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Attilio,

 

Thanks for your quick and honest response.

 

I could imagine that you were left with unanswered questions. I believe

this theory is more mysterious than twenty years of it's claimed

invention. I think the area is an interesting zone when one refers to

Qi/Qong practises and has more to it than seems theoretically possible

or plausible.

I live in Spain and " El Tortuga " has become very popular over here in

some areas. The results are quite astounding as you probably know.

It seems to good to be true that by using this theory and easy needle

(or even lack of needle) technique, lifelong paraylsis, deafness,

chronic injuries of many sorts, and much much more have been cured.

Do you practise it still, or did the lack of Dr Bo's evidence put you

off if you do not mind me asking?

 

I would like to be able to share experiences with Practitioners on this

forum if possible.

 

Thanks for everything

Nial

 

Chinese Medicine , " "

<attiliodalberto wrote:

>

> Hi Nial,

>

> I studied abdominal acupuncture (Fu Zhen), whilst i was in Beijing a

> few years ago. I also meet the inventor Dr Bo and conducted an

> interview with him, see

> http://www.attiliodalberto.com/articles/Zhiyun%20Bo%20Interview.pdf

>

> He has written a book, which is available in Chinese and Italian. When

> i spoke to him in 2004, he was having the book translated into

> English, although i haven't seen it and don't know where to buy it.

>

> To be honest, i looked deeper into the theory years ago, which he laid

> out in his Chinese book, but found it to be a little shaky. You can

> decide for yourself when the English version of the book is released.

>

> Regards,

>

> Attilio

> www.chinesemedicinetimes.com

>

> Chinese Medicine , " nial_sawa "

> nial.sawa@ wrote:

> >

> > Hi all,

> >

> > Can anyone tell me more about abdominal acupuncture as I have seen

it

> > recently used with dramatic effects.

> >

> > Is it really only 20 years old as some authors stipulate or much

older.

> >

> > Furthermore, are there any good books about it?

> >

> > Thanks

> > Nial

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Nial,

 

I know Dr Bo invented this technique around 30 years ago, although its

based on much older theories such as Ba Gua. He asked for it to be put

on the TCM syllabus at Beijing University of TCM, but it was rejected.

 

No, i don't practice abdominal acupuncture in my clinic any more.

 

Although my experiences with this technique are a little negative, a

lot of other practitioners are very interested in it and want to use

it in their practice. Each to their own.

 

Attilio

www.chinesemedicinetimes.com

 

Chinese Medicine , " nial_sawa "

<nial.sawa wrote:

>

> Hi Attilio,

>

> Thanks for your quick and honest response.

>

> I could imagine that you were left with unanswered questions. I believe

> this theory is more mysterious than twenty years of it's claimed

> invention. I think the area is an interesting zone when one refers to

> Qi/Qong practises and has more to it than seems theoretically possible

> or plausible.

> I live in Spain and " El Tortuga " has become very popular over here in

> some areas. The results are quite astounding as you probably know.

> It seems to good to be true that by using this theory and easy needle

> (or even lack of needle) technique, lifelong paraylsis, deafness,

> chronic injuries of many sorts, and much much more have been cured.

> Do you practise it still, or did the lack of Dr Bo's evidence put you

> off if you do not mind me asking?

>

> I would like to be able to share experiences with Practitioners on this

> forum if possible.

>

> Thanks for everything

> Nial

>

> Chinese Medicine , " "

> <attiliodalberto@> wrote:

> >

> > Hi Nial,

> >

> > I studied abdominal acupuncture (Fu Zhen), whilst i was in Beijing a

> > few years ago. I also meet the inventor Dr Bo and conducted an

> > interview with him, see

> > http://www.attiliodalberto.com/articles/Zhiyun%20Bo%20Interview.pdf

> >

> > He has written a book, which is available in Chinese and Italian. When

> > i spoke to him in 2004, he was having the book translated into

> > English, although i haven't seen it and don't know where to buy it.

> >

> > To be honest, i looked deeper into the theory years ago, which he laid

> > out in his Chinese book, but found it to be a little shaky. You can

> > decide for yourself when the English version of the book is released.

> >

> > Regards,

> >

> > Attilio

> > www.chinesemedicinetimes.com

> >

> > Chinese Medicine , " nial_sawa "

> > nial.sawa@ wrote:

> > >

> > > Hi all,

> > >

> > > Can anyone tell me more about abdominal acupuncture as I have seen

> it

> > > recently used with dramatic effects.

> > >

> > > Is it really only 20 years old as some authors stipulate or much

> older.

> > >

> > > Furthermore, are there any good books about it?

> > >

> > > Thanks

> > > Nial

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Nial, these days we have in the school a teacher from Beijng`s

university, Dr. Zhang Hong Lin, doing seminars about this technic, he says

it is very useful for problems in the locomotor system.

 

I have been using it for a couple of weeks, at the begining I was a little

sceptical, but I've found that works great with the pain, the effects

remains for two or three days, so I believe that I will use it as a

complementary option, not the main treatment.

 

Attilio, why are you not using this technic any more? Could you give me more

details, your experience will be very appreciated.

 

Regars,

Fdo.

 

2008/4/20 <attiliodalberto:

 

> Hi Nial,

>

> I know Dr Bo invented this technique around 30 years ago, although its

> based on much older theories such as Ba Gua. He asked for it to be put

> on the TCM syllabus at Beijing University of TCM, but it was rejected.

>

> No, i don't practice abdominal acupuncture in my clinic any more.

>

> Although my experiences with this technique are a little negative, a

> lot of other practitioners are very interested in it and want to use

> it in their practice. Each to their own.

>

>

> Attilio

> www.chinesemedicinetimes.com

>

> --- In

Chinese Medicine <Chinese Medicine%40yaho\

ogroups.com>,

> " nial_sawa "

> <nial.sawa wrote:

> >

> > Hi Attilio,

> >

> > Thanks for your quick and honest response.

> >

> > I could imagine that you were left with unanswered questions. I believe

> > this theory is more mysterious than twenty years of it's claimed

> > invention. I think the area is an interesting zone when one refers to

> > Qi/Qong practises and has more to it than seems theoretically possible

> > or plausible.

> > I live in Spain and " El Tortuga " has become very popular over here in

> > some areas. The results are quite astounding as you probably know.

> > It seems to good to be true that by using this theory and easy needle

> > (or even lack of needle) technique, lifelong paraylsis, deafness,

> > chronic injuries of many sorts, and much much more have been cured.

> > Do you practise it still, or did the lack of Dr Bo's evidence put you

> > off if you do not mind me asking?

> >

> > I would like to be able to share experiences with Practitioners on this

> > forum if possible.

> >

> > Thanks for everything

> > Nial

> >

> > --- In

Chinese Medicine <Chinese Medicine%40yaho\

ogroups.com>,

> " "

> > <attiliodalberto@> wrote:

> > >

> > > Hi Nial,

> > >

> > > I studied abdominal acupuncture (Fu Zhen), whilst i was in Beijing a

> > > few years ago. I also meet the inventor Dr Bo and conducted an

> > > interview with him, see

> > > http://www.attiliodalberto.com/articles/Zhiyun%20Bo%20Interview.pdf

> > >

> > > He has written a book, which is available in Chinese and Italian. When

> > > i spoke to him in 2004, he was having the book translated into

> > > English, although i haven't seen it and don't know where to buy it.

> > >

> > > To be honest, i looked deeper into the theory years ago, which he laid

> > > out in his Chinese book, but found it to be a little shaky. You can

> > > decide for yourself when the English version of the book is released.

> > >

> > > Regards,

> > >

> > > Attilio

> > > www.chinesemedicinetimes.com

> > >

> > > --- In

Chinese Medicine <Chinese Medicine%40yaho\

ogroups.com>,

> " nial_sawa "

> > > nial.sawa@ wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Hi all,

> > > >

> > > > Can anyone tell me more about abdominal acupuncture as I have seen

> > it

> > > > recently used with dramatic effects.

> > > >

> > > > Is it really only 20 years old as some authors stipulate or much

> > older.

> > > >

> > > > Furthermore, are there any good books about it?

> > > >

> > > > Thanks

> > > > Nial

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

>

>

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Hi Attilio,

 

In your interview with Dr. Bo, he references older techniques that use a deeper

style of abdominal acupuncture. There is a teacher/practitioner in San

Francisco named Mrs. Wu who is now in her mid-80s and living in Chinatown. Some

of the American College of TCM (San Francisco) students studied with her. I

experienced her style of acupuncture and got some lessons from her. She uses

abdominal palpation and massage as a major form of diagnosis. She also uses a

variety of peripheral points with her abdominal needling. Mrs. Wu's abdominal

point selection is based on her abdominal diagnosis. The abdominal needles are

long (2.5 to 3.0 inches) and of significant gauge, so I've always felt like a

butterfly pinned to the table. She utilizes a lot of moxa in her work. I was

particularly interested in her diagnostic technique and asked her many questions

about this. She's a very generous person and was happy to answer my questions.

 

You've referenced some abdominal needling techniques in the past wherein

one-inch needles are used and no peripheral points are stimulated. So this must

be part of the Dr. Bo technique, right? Did he also utilize abdominal massage

and diagnosis, as well?

 

Gratefully,

Emmanuel Segmen

 

 

[Guest guest]

Emmanuel, your post brought up some thoughts I had on this subject. I

studied with a Dr Wu (Andrew Wu) in Cupertino, CA. for several years. We

also did non traditional abdominal acupuncture with long needles.

 

One question in my mind, was that by going deep (2 1/2 inches +/-) I had the

concern that I might go into the intestines and then bring that into another

section of the body.

 

I had success with this technique until my mind got in the way.

Dr Andrew Wu always had success, in everything he touched. very gifted.

 

Peace

 

Ed Kasper LAc. & family

www.HappyHerbalist.com

...................................................

 

Re: abdominal acupuncture

Posted by: " Emmanuel Segmen " mrsegmen emmanuelsegmen

Sun Apr 20, 2008 11:34 pm (PDT)

Hi Attilio,

 

In your interview with Dr. Bo, he references older techniques that use a

deeper style of abdominal acupuncture. There is a teacher/practitioner in

San Francisco named Mrs. Wu who is now in her mid-80s and living in

Chinatown. Some of the American College of TCM (San Francisco) students

studied with her. I experienced her style of acupuncture and got some

lessons from her. She uses abdominal palpation and massage as a major form

of diagnosis. She also uses a variety of peripheral points with her

abdominal needling. Mrs. Wu's abdominal point selection is based on her

abdominal diagnosis. The abdominal needles are long (2.5 to 3.0 inches) and

of significant gauge, so I've always felt like a butterfly pinned to the

table. She utilizes a lot of moxa in her work. I was particularly interested

in her diagnostic technique and asked her many questions about this. She's a

very generous person and was happy to answer my questions.

 

You've referenced some abdominal needling techniques in the past wherein

one-inch needles are used and no peripheral points are stimulated. So this

must be part of the Dr. Bo technique, right? Did he also utilize abdominal

massage and diagnosis, as well?

 

Gratefully,

Emmanuel Segmen

[Guest guest]

Hi Nial, these days we have in the school a teacher from Beijng`s

university, Dr. Zhang Hong Lin, doing seminars about this technic, he says

it is very useful for problems in the locomotor system.

 

I have been using it for a couple of weeks, at the begining I was a little

sceptical, but I've found that works great with the pain, the effects

remains for two or three days, so I believe that I will use it as a

complementary option, not the main treatment.

 

Attilio, why are you not using this technic any more? Could you give me more

details, your experience will be very appreciated.

 

Regars,

Fdo.

 

 

 

Fernando Dougnac C.

 

Medicina China

 

Centro de Salud Budo

 

F: (56 2) 3255401

 

Cel: (56 8) 2390199

 

_____

 

2008/4/20 < <attiliodalberto

attiliodalberto:

 

Hi Nial,

 

I know Dr Bo invented this technique around 30 years ago, although its

based on much older theories such as Ba Gua. He asked for it to be put

on the TCM syllabus at Beijing University of TCM, but it was rejected.

 

No, i don't practice abdominal acupuncture in my clinic any more.

 

Although my experiences with this technique are a little negative, a

lot of other practitioners are very interested in it and want to use

it in their practice. Each to their own.

 

 

 

Attilio

www.chinesemedicinetimes.com

 

Chinese Medicine

<Chinese Medicine%40> , " nial_sawa "

<nial.sawa wrote:

>

> Hi Attilio,

>

> Thanks for your quick and honest response.

>

> I could imagine that you were left with unanswered questions. I believe

> this theory is more mysterious than twenty years of it's claimed

> invention. I think the area is an interesting zone when one refers to

> Qi/Qong practises and has more to it than seems theoretically possible

> or plausible.

> I live in Spain and " El Tortuga " has become very popular over here in

> some areas. The results are quite astounding as you probably know.

> It seems to good to be true that by using this theory and easy needle

> (or even lack of needle) technique, lifelong paraylsis, deafness,

> chronic injuries of many sorts, and much much more have been cured.

> Do you practise it still, or did the lack of Dr Bo's evidence put you

> off if you do not mind me asking?

>

> I would like to be able to share experiences with Practitioners on this

> forum if possible.

>

> Thanks for everything

> Nial

>

> Chinese Medicine

<Chinese Medicine%40> , " "

> <attiliodalberto@> wrote:

> >

> > Hi Nial,

> >

> > I studied abdominal acupuncture (Fu Zhen), whilst i was in Beijing a

> > few years ago. I also meet the inventor Dr Bo and conducted an

> > interview with him, see

> > http://www.attiliodalberto.com/articles/Zhiyun%20Bo%20Interview.pdf

> >

> > He has written a book, which is available in Chinese and Italian. When

> > i spoke to him in 2004, he was having the book translated into

> > English, although i haven't seen it and don't know where to buy it.

> >

> > To be honest, i looked deeper into the theory years ago, which he laid

> > out in his Chinese book, but found it to be a little shaky. You can

> > decide for yourself when the English version of the book is released.

> >

> > Regards,

> >

> > Attilio

> > www.chinesemedicinetimes.com

> >

> > Chinese Medicine

<Chinese Medicine%40> , " nial_sawa "

> > nial.sawa@ wrote:

> > >

> > > Hi all,

> > >

> > > Can anyone tell me more about abdominal acupuncture as I have seen

> it

> > > recently used with dramatic effects.

> > >

> > > Is it really only 20 years old as some authors stipulate or much

> older.

> > >

> > > Furthermore, are there any good books about it?

> > >

> > > Thanks

> > > Nial

> > >

> >

>

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

No, there is no abdominal palpation or massage.

 

The technique is to visual a turtle on the abdomen and place the

needles according to the affected area and the depth you wish to work

on, for example if you have knee pain, insert the needles on the

turtle's knee. However, an experienced acupuncturist in Beijing

slightly changed the turtle image in relation to the extension of the

legs.

 

Attilio

www.chinesemedicinetimes.com

 

Chinese Medicine , " Emmanuel Segmen "

<mrsegmen wrote:

>

> Hi Attilio,

>

> In your interview with Dr. Bo, he references older techniques that

use a deeper style of abdominal acupuncture. There is a

teacher/practitioner in San Francisco named Mrs. Wu who is now in her

mid-80s and living in Chinatown. Some of the American College of TCM

(San Francisco) students studied with her. I experienced her style of

acupuncture and got some lessons from her. She uses abdominal

palpation and massage as a major form of diagnosis. She also uses a

variety of peripheral points with her abdominal needling. Mrs. Wu's

abdominal point selection is based on her abdominal diagnosis. The

abdominal needles are long (2.5 to 3.0 inches) and of significant

gauge, so I've always felt like a butterfly pinned to the table. She

utilizes a lot of moxa in her work. I was particularly interested in

her diagnostic technique and asked her many questions about this.

She's a very generous person and was happy to answer my questions.

>

> You've referenced some abdominal needling techniques in the past

wherein one-inch needles are used and no peripheral points are

stimulated. So this must be part of the Dr. Bo technique, right? Did

he also utilize abdominal massage and diagnosis, as well?

>

> Gratefully,

> Emmanuel Segmen

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Fernando,

 

I lost interest in this because the theory was flawed, otherwise i

would have continued to write about it and would probably be teaching

small workshops by now.

 

Yes, i've heard its very good for chronic conditions, but then who

knows what's effective when you're throwing loads of different

treatment techniques at the problem, i.e. regular acupuncture, moxa,

cupping, gua sha, dietary changes, life style changes and then Fu Zhen.

 

Attilio

www.chinesemedicinetimes.com

 

Chinese Medicine , " Fernando

Dougnac " <fdo wrote:

>

> Hi Nial, these days we have in the school a teacher from Beijng`s

> university, Dr. Zhang Hong Lin, doing seminars about this technic,

he says

> it is very useful for problems in the locomotor system.

>

> I have been using it for a couple of weeks, at the begining I was a

little

> sceptical, but I've found that works great with the pain, the effects

> remains for two or three days, so I believe that I will use it as a

> complementary option, not the main treatment.

>

> Attilio, why are you not using this technic any more? Could you give

me more

> details, your experience will be very appreciated.

>

> Regars,

> Fdo.

>

> 2008/4/20 <attiliodalberto:

>

> > Hi Nial,

> >

> > I know Dr Bo invented this technique around 30 years ago, although its

> > based on much older theories such as Ba Gua. He asked for it to be put

> > on the TCM syllabus at Beijing University of TCM, but it was rejected.

> >

> > No, i don't practice abdominal acupuncture in my clinic any more.

> >

> > Although my experiences with this technique are a little negative, a

> > lot of other practitioners are very interested in it and want to use

> > it in their practice. Each to their own.

> >

> >

> > Attilio

> > www.chinesemedicinetimes.com

> >

> > --- In

Chinese Medicine <Chinese Medicine%40yaho\

ogroups.com>,

> > " nial_sawa "

> > <nial.sawa@> wrote:

> > >

> > > Hi Attilio,

> > >

> > > Thanks for your quick and honest response.

> > >

> > > I could imagine that you were left with unanswered questions. I

believe

> > > this theory is more mysterious than twenty years of it's claimed

> > > invention. I think the area is an interesting zone when one

refers to

> > > Qi/Qong practises and has more to it than seems theoretically

possible

> > > or plausible.

> > > I live in Spain and " El Tortuga " has become very popular over

here in

> > > some areas. The results are quite astounding as you probably know.

> > > It seems to good to be true that by using this theory and easy

needle

> > > (or even lack of needle) technique, lifelong paraylsis, deafness,

> > > chronic injuries of many sorts, and much much more have been cured.

> > > Do you practise it still, or did the lack of Dr Bo's evidence

put you

> > > off if you do not mind me asking?

> > >

> > > I would like to be able to share experiences with Practitioners

on this

> > > forum if possible.

> > >

> > > Thanks for everything

> > > Nial

> > >

> > > --- In

Chinese Medicine <Chinese Medicine%40yaho\

ogroups.com>,

> > " "

> > > <attiliodalberto@> wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Hi Nial,

> > > >

> > > > I studied abdominal acupuncture (Fu Zhen), whilst i was in

Beijing a

> > > > few years ago. I also meet the inventor Dr Bo and conducted an

> > > > interview with him, see

> > > >

http://www.attiliodalberto.com/articles/Zhiyun%20Bo%20Interview.pdf

> > > >

> > > > He has written a book, which is available in Chinese and

Italian. When

> > > > i spoke to him in 2004, he was having the book translated into

> > > > English, although i haven't seen it and don't know where to

buy it.

> > > >

> > > > To be honest, i looked deeper into the theory years ago, which

he laid

> > > > out in his Chinese book, but found it to be a little shaky.

You can

> > > > decide for yourself when the English version of the book is

released.

> > > >

> > > > Regards,

> > > >

> > > > Attilio

> > > > www.chinesemedicinetimes.com

> > > >

> > > > --- In

Chinese Medicine <Chinese Medicine%40yaho\

ogroups.com>,

> > " nial_sawa "

> > > > nial.sawa@ wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > Hi all,

> > > > >

> > > > > Can anyone tell me more about abdominal acupuncture as I

have seen

> > > it

> > > > > recently used with dramatic effects.

> > > > >

> > > > > Is it really only 20 years old as some authors stipulate or much

> > > older.

> > > > >

> > > > > Furthermore, are there any good books about it?

> > > > >

> > > > > Thanks

> > > > > Nial

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

> >

> >

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Fernando,

 

I have been taught the technique as to be used after charging up the

body first i.e tonifying the kidney and liver points if you diagnose

them as necessary and then using the Tortoise.

So first of all you give a more or less normal treatment using front

body points and then twenty minutes with the tortoise. We have been

taught that there are Rheuma points, special kidney points associated

with the tortoise. Also, the use of the tortoise charges the Marvelous

Vessels(is that their name in English)and does not drain the body.

I see it's use in conjunction with TCM diagnostic and treatment of

mainly front points as highly beneficial.

 

What is the technique you have been shown?

Regards

Nial Chinese Medicine , " Fernando

Dougnac " <fdo wrote:

>

> Hi Nial, these days we have in the school a teacher from Beijng`s

> university, Dr. Zhang Hong Lin, doing seminars about this technic,

he says

> it is very useful for problems in the locomotor system.

>

> I have been using it for a couple of weeks, at the begining I was a

little

> sceptical, but I've found that works great with the pain, the effects

> remains for two or three days, so I believe that I will use it as a

> complementary option, not the main treatment.

>

> Attilio, why are you not using this technic any more? Could you give

me more

> details, your experience will be very appreciated.

>

> Regars,

> Fdo.

>

>

>

> Fernando Dougnac C.

>

> Medicina China

>

> Centro de Salud Budo

>

> F: (56 2) 3255401

>

> Cel: (56 8) 2390199

>

> _____

>

> 2008/4/20 < <attiliodalberto

> attiliodalberto:

>

> Hi Nial,

>

> I know Dr Bo invented this technique around 30 years ago, although its

> based on much older theories such as Ba Gua. He asked for it to be put

> on the TCM syllabus at Beijing University of TCM, but it was rejected.

>

> No, i don't practice abdominal acupuncture in my clinic any more.

>

> Although my experiences with this technique are a little negative, a

> lot of other practitioners are very interested in it and want to use

> it in their practice. Each to their own.

>

>

>

> Attilio

> www.chinesemedicinetimes.com

>

> Chinese Medicine

> <Chinese Medicine%40> , " nial_sawa "

> <nial.sawa@> wrote:

> >

> > Hi Attilio,

> >

> > Thanks for your quick and honest response.

> >

> > I could imagine that you were left with unanswered questions. I

believe

> > this theory is more mysterious than twenty years of it's claimed

> > invention. I think the area is an interesting zone when one refers to

> > Qi/Qong practises and has more to it than seems theoretically possible

> > or plausible.

> > I live in Spain and " El Tortuga " has become very popular over here in

> > some areas. The results are quite astounding as you probably know.

> > It seems to good to be true that by using this theory and easy needle

> > (or even lack of needle) technique, lifelong paraylsis, deafness,

> > chronic injuries of many sorts, and much much more have been cured.

> > Do you practise it still, or did the lack of Dr Bo's evidence put you

> > off if you do not mind me asking?

> >

> > I would like to be able to share experiences with Practitioners on

this

> > forum if possible.

> >

> > Thanks for everything

> > Nial

> >

> > Chinese Medicine

> <Chinese Medicine%40> , " Attilio

DAlberto "

> > <attiliodalberto@> wrote:

> > >

> > > Hi Nial,

> > >

> > > I studied abdominal acupuncture (Fu Zhen), whilst i was in Beijing a

> > > few years ago. I also meet the inventor Dr Bo and conducted an

> > > interview with him, see

> > > http://www.attiliodalberto.com/articles/Zhiyun%20Bo%20Interview.pdf

> > >

> > > He has written a book, which is available in Chinese and

Italian. When

> > > i spoke to him in 2004, he was having the book translated into

> > > English, although i haven't seen it and don't know where to buy it.

> > >

> > > To be honest, i looked deeper into the theory years ago, which

he laid

> > > out in his Chinese book, but found it to be a little shaky. You can

> > > decide for yourself when the English version of the book is

released.

> > >

> > > Regards,

> > >

> > > Attilio

> > > www.chinesemedicinetimes.com

> > >

> > > Chinese Medicine

> <Chinese Medicine%40> , " nial_sawa "

> > > nial.sawa@ wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Hi all,

> > > >

> > > > Can anyone tell me more about abdominal acupuncture as I have seen

> > it

> > > > recently used with dramatic effects.

> > > >

> > > > Is it really only 20 years old as some authors stipulate or much

> > older.

> > > >

> > > > Furthermore, are there any good books about it?

> > > >

> > > > Thanks

> > > > Nial

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

 

[Guest guest]

For those interested, we'll have BMAA (Bo¹s Method of Abdominal Acupuncture)

Level 1 w/ Bo Zhiyun, MD (China) and Paul Ryan, LAc (translator &

instructor), 15 CEUs approved, May 17-18, 2008, here at AIMC Berkeley.

 

For registration info, go to:

http://www.aimc.edu/ceu/index.html#workshops

 

Benjamin

[Guest guest]

Hi Ed,

 

Ha, you make a good point. (^;

 

Yes, the needle penetrates the peritoneum and intestines. It probably

penetrates numerous venules and arterioles as well. I'm a gross and microscopic

anatomist by profession, and it does take a bit to get the " mind " out of the

way. My observation regarding acupuncture is that the needle does not drag

material from one compartment to another. Recall that it was over 1,700

accidental needle sticks in the U.S. before H.I.V. virus was reportedly

transmitted, and that transmission was by intention. Acupuncture needles are

not hollow needles so they are not dragging material from one place to another.

 

I'm often impressed personally as I watch needles going " through-and-through " on

my own body to join major acupuncture points. Quite thrilling for the mind of

an anatomist. I've been watching this now for 35 years, and it's still

thrilling.

 

Respectfully,

Emmanuel Segmen

---------------

Re: abdominal acupuncture

 

 

Emmanuel, your post brought up some thoughts I had on this subject. I

studied with a Dr Wu (Andrew Wu) in Cupertino, CA. for several years. We

also did non traditional abdominal acupuncture with long needles.

 

One question in my mind, was that by going deep (2 1/2 inches +/-) I had the

concern that I might go into the intestines and then bring that into another

section of the body.

 

I had success with this technique until my mind got in the way.

Dr Andrew Wu always had success, in everything he touched. very gifted.

 

Peace

 

Ed Kasper LAc. & family

www.HappyHerbalist.com

...................................................

 

Re: abdominal acupuncture

Posted by: " Emmanuel Segmen " mrsegmen emmanuelsegmen

Sun Apr 20, 2008 11:34 pm (PDT)

Hi Attilio,

 

In your interview with Dr. Bo, he references older techniques that use a

deeper style of abdominal acupuncture. There is a teacher/practitioner in

San Francisco named Mrs. Wu who is now in her mid-80s and living in

Chinatown. Some of the American College of TCM (San Francisco) students

studied with her. I experienced her style of acupuncture and got some

lessons from her. She uses abdominal palpation and massage as a major form

of diagnosis. She also uses a variety of peripheral points with her

abdominal needling. Mrs. Wu's abdominal point selection is based on her

abdominal diagnosis. The abdominal needles are long (2.5 to 3.0 inches) and

of significant gauge, so I've always felt like a butterfly pinned to the

table. She utilizes a lot of moxa in her work. I was particularly interested

in her diagnostic technique and asked her many questions about this. She's a

very generous person and was happy to answer my questions.

 

You've referenced some abdominal needling techniques in the past wherein

one-inch needles are used and no peripheral points are stimulated. So this

must be part of the Dr. Bo technique, right? Did he also utilize abdominal

massage and diagnosis, as well?

 

Gratefully,

Emmanuel Segmen

 

 

[Guest guest]

Emmanuel, thanks. That is very settling.

 

Peace

 

Ed Kasper LAc. & family

www.HappyHerbalist.com

.......................................

Re: abdominal acupuncture

Posted by: " Emmanuel Segmen " mrsegmen emmanuelsegmen

Wed Apr 23, 2008 4:59 pm (PDT)

Hi Ed,

 

Ha, you make a good point. (^;

 

Yes, the needle penetrates the peritoneum and intestines. It probably

penetrates numerous venules and arterioles as well. I'm a gross and

microscopic anatomist by profession, and it does take a bit to get the

" mind " out of the way. My observation regarding acupuncture is that the

needle does not drag material from one compartment to another. Recall that

it was over 1,700 accidental needle sticks in the U.S. before H.I.V. virus

was reportedly transmitted, and that transmission was by intention.

Acupuncture needles are not hollow needles so they are not dragging material

from one place to another.

 

I'm often impressed personally as I watch needles going

" through-and-through " on my own body to join major acupuncture points. Quite

thrilling for the mind of an anatomist. I've been watching this now for 35

years, and it's still thrilling.

 

Respectfully,

Emmanuel Segmen

[Guest guest]

Emmanuel Segmen has described a needling procedure wherein the

acupuncture needle penetrates the peritoneum and intestines. He

states that acupuncture needles " don't drag material from one

compartment to another. " Thus I presume he believes that serious

complications from this procedure won't occur.

 

I beg to differ. I do not know the frequency of complications from

this procedure, but I do recognize the real potential for their

occurrence. When serious complications from this procedure do occur,

the damages are potentially enormous. The patient might contract

peritonitis or experience internal bleeding. For such an outcome (and

for the use of this procedure in the face of the risks) the

practitioner might well be sued for negligence, and might lose his

license as well. Publicity from these events would tar the entire

profession in a wide region - possibly nationally. Do you have any

idea how irresponsible and dangerous this procedure would appear to

be, to a jury of citizens? Were you not taught that it is forbidden to

needle any solid or hollow organs?

 

The consequences suggest that it is not acceptable to allow each

practitioner to " do his own thing " and come to a personal decision

about use (or non-use) of the procedure. National and state

acupuncture associations should explicitly ban use of it. So should

state acupuncture licensing boards.

 

 

David Kailin, Ph.D., M.P.H., L.Ac.

Author, Quality in Complementary & Alternative Medicine

http://www.convergentmedical.com

 

 

 

Chinese Medicine , " Emmanuel Segmen "

<mrsegmen wrote:

>

> Hi Ed,

>

> Ha, you make a good point. (^;

>

> Yes, the needle penetrates the peritoneum and intestines. It

probably penetrates numerous venules and arterioles as well. I'm a

gross and microscopic anatomist by profession, and it does take a bit

to get the " mind " out of the way. My observation regarding

acupuncture is that the needle does not drag material from one

compartment to another. Recall that it was over 1,700 accidental

needle sticks in the U.S. before H.I.V. virus was reportedly

transmitted, and that transmission was by intention. Acupuncture

needles are not hollow needles so they are not dragging material from

one place to another.

>

> I'm often impressed personally as I watch needles going

" through-and-through " on my own body to join major acupuncture points.

Quite thrilling for the mind of an anatomist. I've been watching

this now for 35 years, and it's still thrilling.

>

> Respectfully,

> Emmanuel Segmen

> ---------------

> Re: abdominal acupuncture

>

>

> Emmanuel, your post brought up some thoughts I had on this subject. I

> studied with a Dr Wu (Andrew Wu) in Cupertino, CA. for several years. We

> also did non traditional abdominal acupuncture with long needles.

>

> One question in my mind, was that by going deep (2 1/2 inches +/-) I

had the

> concern that I might go into the intestines and then bring that into

another

> section of the body.

>

> I had success with this technique until my mind got in the way.

> Dr Andrew Wu always had success, in everything he touched. very gifted.

>

> Peace

>

> Ed Kasper LAc. & family

> www.HappyHerbalist.com

> ..................................................

>

> Re: abdominal acupuncture

> Posted by: " Emmanuel Segmen " mrsegmen@ emmanuelsegmen

> Sun Apr 20, 2008 11:34 pm (PDT)

> Hi Attilio,

>

> In your interview with Dr. Bo, he references older techniques that use a

> deeper style of abdominal acupuncture. There is a

teacher/practitioner in

> San Francisco named Mrs. Wu who is now in her mid-80s and living in

> Chinatown. Some of the American College of TCM (San Francisco) students

> studied with her. I experienced her style of acupuncture and got some

> lessons from her. She uses abdominal palpation and massage as a

major form

> of diagnosis. She also uses a variety of peripheral points with her

> abdominal needling. Mrs. Wu's abdominal point selection is based on her

> abdominal diagnosis. The abdominal needles are long (2.5 to 3.0

inches) and

> of significant gauge, so I've always felt like a butterfly pinned to the

> table. She utilizes a lot of moxa in her work. I was particularly

interested

> in her diagnostic technique and asked her many questions about this.

She's a

> very generous person and was happy to answer my questions.

>

> You've referenced some abdominal needling techniques in the past wherein

> one-inch needles are used and no peripheral points are stimulated.

So this

> must be part of the Dr. Bo technique, right? Did he also utilize

abdominal

> massage and diagnosis, as well?

>

> Gratefully,

> Emmanuel Segmen

>

>

[tuvia 0]

Hi Nial

 

I have been doing Abdominal Acupuncture for more than 10 years.

I have also done a lot of research on its theory.

I give workshops throughout Europe.

This technique gives excellent with both musculoskeletal and internal problems.