Reply from AAAOM re: letter to NCCAM: acupuncturists not on board

[Guest guest]

I recieved this prompt reply from AAAOM (included below my signature, scroll

down) in regards to my letter about the lack of LAc's on the NCCAM board.

it seems NCCAM hasn't responded to Martin's february letter, but are still

allowing them more time to reply before sending out a second letter. if a

second letter is needed, it is at that time that they will ask for letters

from the profession to be sent to NCCAM.

 

several of you supported my letter with letters of your own. i thank you

for backing me. if more feel compelled to respond at this time, i think it

would help if the powers that be heard first hand from the rank and file and

know they have our support. especially NCCAM needs to know that we are

serious.

 

in solidarity,

 

kath

 

---------- Forwarded message ----------

Rebekah J Christensen <rchristensen

Mon, Mar 31, 2008 at 2:51 PM

RE: Atten: Martin Herbkersman, Pres AAAOM re: letter to NCCAM:

acupuncturists not on board

" (Redirected by American Association of Oriental

Medicine <orientalmeds) "

Cc: " Martin Herbkersman (Martinaaom (AT) Palmettoacupuncture (DOT) Com) " <

martinaaom

 

 

Greetings Ms. Bartlett:

 

We are allowing NCCAM time to respond to our letter, and then will be

following up if there is no response. This response will be posted with a

proposed letter that our practitioners can use. Additionally, we have

invited and have received confirmation that Dr. Josephine Briggs, Director

of NCAMM will be a keynote speaker at our General Session Opening at Expo

2008 in Chicago, October 16-19. The date of her presentation will be the

morning of October 17. We anticipate this opportunity will allow our voice

to effectively be heard by the NCCAM administration. If you would like to

learn more about Dr. Briggs, I've attached a link to her bio:

http://nccam.nih.gov/news/2008/012408.htm.

 

I'm pleased that you find AAAOM's political action on behalf of the

profession value added. We sincerely hope that you will decide to continue

your membership.

 

http://www.aaom.info/docs/mb_joint.pdf. This provides benefits for joint

members, which is our member category for members that are also members of

their state association, which is $50 less annually ($200 rather than $250).

Here is a link to our online member application:

https://www.aaom.info/memberapp.html. Or, please feel free to reach us

toll-free @ 866-455-7999 to join over the phone, and ask for Brian Smither.

 

 

Thank you for writing to express both your concerns and support. Your

feedback is most appreciated.

 

Sincerely,

 

Rebekah J. Christensen

Executive Director

American Association of Acupuncture and Oriental Medicine (AAAOM)

P. O. Box 162340 (Mailing Address)

909 22nd Street

Sacramento, CA 95816

Phone: 916-443-4770 Fax: 916-443-4766

800: 866-455-7999

rchristensen

www.aaaomonline.org

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

(Redirected by " American Association of

Oriental Medicine " <orientalmeds) [acukath]

 

Sunday, March 30, 2008 11:22 AM

Rebekah Christensen, Executive Director AAAOM

Atten: Martin Herbkersman, Pres AAAOM re: letter to NCCAM:

acupuncturists not on board

 

 

*********** BEGIN REDIRECTED MESSAGE ***********

 

Dear Martin Herkersman,

 

I am writing to thank you for your letter to NCCAM (National Ctr for

Complementary & Alt Med) regarding its recent appointments. (pasted below my

signature for reference: scroll down). You speak from the hearts of all of

the LAc's you represent in calling for a correction of their recent error of

including no LAc's in the recent appointments to the board which oversees

NCCAM research in the field of acupuncture. Our field is one of the areas

of alt med the American public is most interesting in pursuing and learning

more about. As you pointed out, it is indeed important to have several LAcs

on the board. I became alarmed when learning that NCCAM board member Ted

Kaptchuk's term of service is up next year, and the only other so called

representative of our field is the newly appointed Lupo Carlota, an MD who

has only completed a 5 day course in acupuncture, yet misrepresents his

credentials as having earned a Dipl. Ac. from NCCAOM. Of course he should

be replaced by a LAc, as you have called for. I can not imagine why NCCAM

would not see the necessity of having several LAc's on thier board when our

field is one of the largest and fully credentialed (read credible) of the

various types of alt med NCCAM represents.

 

I am wondering what we can do as individuals to support and back your call

to NCCAM to correct this error of board appointees. Perhaps a petition or

emails could be sent. I was not able to find your letter on the AAAOM

website, and recommend you place it in a prominent spot so more folks will

become aware of this important issue facing our profession.

 

Political actions like this is why I support AAAOM with my professional

membership. After reading your letter in Acupuncture Today, I went to the

AAAOM website to check my membership status to be sure I was up to date, but

could not find a way to do this. I also recommend correcting this problem

on the website, as well.

 

Thank you for your commitment to our profession, and for addressing this

important issue on our behalf.

 

With heartfelt appreciation,

 

Kath Bartlett

 

--

 

Oriental Medicine Experienced, Dedicated,

Effective

 

Flying Dragon Liniment:

Effective pain relief for muscles & joints Formulated by Kath Bartlett,

Traditional Chinese Herbalist Available at Asheville Center for Chinese

Medicine, or web order at:

https://www.kamwo.com/shop/product.php?productid=17442 & cat=0 & page=1

 

 

Asheville Center For

70 Woodfin Place, Suite West Wing Two

Asheville, NC 28801 828.258.2777

kbartlett

www.AcupunctureAsheville.com <http://www.acupunctureasheville.com/> <

http://www.acupunctureasheville.com/>

 

 

 

February 15, 2008

 

Secretary Michael O. Leavitt info

 

The U.S. Department of Health and Human Services Via U. S. Mail

 

200 Independence Avenue, S.W.

 

Washington, D.C. 20201

 

Secretary Leavitt:

 

I am writing you on behalf of the American Association of Acupuncture and

Oriental Medicine (AAAOM) which is the national association representing

professional acupuncturists in America. There are more than 20,000 fully

trained and licensed professional providers of acupuncture and Oriental

medicine (AOM) in the United States.

 

I would like to raise two concerns at this juncture. The first is the

National Center for Complementary and Alternative Medicine's (NCCAM)

compliance with federal requirements regarding representation of

Complementary and Alternative Medicine (CAM) providers on its National

Advisory Council, and more specifically, adequate and appropriate

representation for acupuncturists. The second is the appointment to the

NCCAM of an individual who has published credentials we have been unable to

verify.

 

NCCAM's National Advisory Council is required to have nine members who are

licensed in complementary or alternative medicine. There is currently one

licensed acupuncturist on the Council (Dr. Ted Kaptchuk), and his term will

expire next year. The work of the Council is critical in guiding the

research priorities of complementary and alternative medicine in the U.S. As

such, the American public deserves to have research advisors who are

qualified subject-matter experts presiding over research that can affect the

quality of, and access to, acupuncture care. The AAAOM offers its assistance

in creating a solution for full compliance by the NCCAM.

 

Secondly, it has come to my attention that Dr. Lupo Carlota has been

appointed to the NCCAM Advisory Council. Dr. Carlota is a physician who

markets a 5-day training program to other physicians that he calls " Meridian

Regulatory Acupuncture " . The AAAOM does not consider short-course trained

individuals to be qualified representatives of the profession. Dr. Carlota

is not a licensed acupuncturist and, although he lists his credentials as

" DiplAc, " we have verified that he is not certified by the National

Certification Commission for Acupuncture and Oriental Medicine (NCCAOM).

This is a misrepresentation of his qualifications. I respectfully request

that you reconsider this appointment, given that he does not adequately

represent CAM work in the field of acupuncture.

 

The AAAOM supports the work of the National Advisory Council and NCCAM as we

consider acupuncture research to be vital to the American healthcare

landscape. Therefore, I am requesting that at least two licensed and

nationally certified acupuncturists be appointed to the NCCAM Advisory

Council. I would be pleased to send you a list of qualified persons to be

considered for appointment.

 

Sincerely,

 

Martin Herbkersman, MTOM, DAc

 

President, AAAOM

 

 

 

*********** END REDIRECTED MESSAGE ***********

 

 

 

 

 

 

--

 

Oriental Medicine

Experienced, Dedicated, Effective

 

Flying Dragon Liniment:

Effective pain relief for muscles & joints

Formulated by Kath Bartlett, Traditional Chinese Herbalist

Available at Asheville Center for , or web order at:

https://www.kamwo.com/shop/product.php?productid=17442 & cat=0 & page=1

 

 

Asheville Center For

70 Woodfin Place, Suite West Wing Two

Asheville, NC 28801 828.258.2777

kbartlett

www.AcupunctureAsheville.com

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Nice to hear that others are taking umbrage on the appointments at NCCAM. I

wrote a number of letters last year complaining of these very things. Their

answer to me was that they hire Doctors from China (MDs) that know acupuncture

better than us here in America. I take exception to that since many of the

" MD's " in China only have a BMBS or at most a Master's degree that they claim is

equivalent to the MD professional degree.

 

When I responded to that by saying that China does have a doctorate degree and

that if their Bachelors or Masters is equivalent to our MD degree, " what is

their doctorate equivalent to, God? " I also informed them that we, too, have a

doctorate; the DAOM. I was met with silence after that.

 

However, I have kept all of their responses in my computer. It would be nice to

see more acupuncturist doing research in acupuncture instead of MD that have no

real training. Why don't they allow us to do research in western medicine, we

have more training in WM than they have in OM.

 

 

Donald J. Snow, DAOM, MPH, LAc

 

 

alumni:

Chinese Traditional Medicine: acukath: Mon, 31

Mar 2008 20:13:12 -0400Reply from AAAOM re: letter to NCCAM:

acupuncturists not on board

 

 

 

 

I recieved this prompt reply from AAAOM (included below my signature,

scrolldown) in regards to my letter about the lack of LAc's on the NCCAM

board.it seems NCCAM hasn't responded to Martin's february letter, but are

stillallowing them more time to reply before sending out a second letter. if

asecond letter is needed, it is at that time that they will ask for lettersfrom

the profession to be sent to NCCAM.several of you supported my letter with

letters of your own. i thank youfor backing me. if more feel compelled to

respond at this time, i think itwould help if the powers that be heard first

hand from the rank and file andknow they have our support. especially NCCAM

needs to know that we areserious.in solidarity,kath---------- Forwarded message

----------Rebekah J Christensen <rchristensenMon,

Mar 31, 2008 at 2:51 PMRE: Atten: Martin Herbkersman, Pres AAAOM re:

letter to NCCAM:acupuncturists not on board "

(Redirected by American Association of OrientalMedicine

<orientalmeds) " Cc: " Martin Herbkersman

(Martinaaom (AT) Palmettoacupuncture (DOT) Com) "

<martinaaomGreetings Ms. Bartlett:We are allowing NCCAM

time to respond to our letter, and then will befollowing up if there is no

response. This response will be posted with aproposed letter that our

practitioners can use. Additionally, we haveinvited and have received

confirmation that Dr. Josephine Briggs, Directorof NCAMM will be a keynote

speaker at our General Session Opening at Expo2008 in Chicago, October 16-19.

The date of her presentation will be themorning of October 17. We anticipate

this opportunity will allow our voiceto effectively be heard by the NCCAM

administration. If you would like tolearn more about Dr. Briggs, I've attached a

link to her bio:http://nccam.nih.gov/news/2008/012408.htm.I'm pleased that you

find AAAOM's political action on behalf of theprofession value added. We

sincerely hope that you will decide to continueyour

membership.http://www.aaom.info/docs/mb_joint.pdf. This provides benefits for

jointmembers, which is our member category for members that are also members

oftheir state association, which is $50 less annually ($200 rather than

$250).Here is a link to our online member

application:https://www.aaom.info/memberapp.html. Or, please feel free to reach

ustoll-free @ 866-455-7999 to join over the phone, and ask for Brian

Smither.Thank you for writing to express both your concerns and support.

Yourfeedback is most appreciated.Sincerely,Rebekah J. ChristensenExecutiveAmerican Association of Acupuncture and Oriental Medicine (AAAOM)P. O.

Box 162340 (Mailing Address)909 22nd StreetSacramento, CA 95816Phone:

916-443-4770 Fax: 916-443-4766800:

866-455-7999rchristensen-----Original

Message----- (Redirected by " American Association

ofOriental Medicine " <orientalmeds)

[acukath]Sunday, March 30, 2008 11:22 AMRebekah

Christensen, Executive Director AAAOMAtten: Martin Herbkersman, Pres

AAAOM re: letter to NCCAM:acupuncturists not on board*********** BEGIN

REDIRECTED MESSAGE ***********Dear Martin Herkersman,I am writing to thank you

for your letter to NCCAM (National Ctr forComplementary & Alt Med) regarding its

recent appointments. (pasted below mysignature for reference: scroll down). You

speak from the hearts of all ofthe LAc's you represent in calling for a

correction of their recent error ofincluding no LAc's in the recent appointments

to the board which overseesNCCAM research in the field of acupuncture. Our field

is one of the areasof alt med the American public is most interesting in

pursuing and learningmore about. As you pointed out, it is indeed important to

have several LAcson the board. I became alarmed when learning that NCCAM board

member TedKaptchuk's term of service is up next year, and the only other so

calledrepresentative of our field is the newly appointed Lupo Carlota, an MD

whohas only completed a 5 day course in acupuncture, yet misrepresents

hiscredentials as having earned a Dipl. Ac. from NCCAOM. Of course he shouldbe

replaced by a LAc, as you have called for. I can not imagine why NCCAMwould not

see the necessity of having several LAc's on thier board when ourfield is one of

the largest and fully credentialed (read credible) of thevarious types of alt

med NCCAM represents.I am wondering what we can do as individuals to support and

back your callto NCCAM to correct this error of board appointees. Perhaps a

petition oremails could be sent. I was not able to find your letter on the

AAAOMwebsite, and recommend you place it in a prominent spot so more folks

willbecome aware of this important issue facing our profession.Political actions

like this is why I support AAAOM with my professionalmembership. After reading

your letter in Acupuncture Today, I went to theAAAOM website to check my

membership status to be sure I was up to date, butcould not find a way to do

this. I also recommend correcting this problemon the website, as well.Thank you

for your commitment to our profession, and for addressing thisimportant issue on

our behalf.With heartfelt appreciation,Kath Bartlett--Kath Bartlett, LAc, MS, BA

UCLAOriental Medicine Experienced,

Dedicated,EffectiveFlying Dragon Liniment:Effective pain relief for muscles &

joints Formulated by Kath Bartlett,Traditional Chinese Herbalist Available at

Asheville Center for ChineseMedicine, or web order

at:https://www.kamwo.com/shop/product.php?productid=17442 & cat=0 & page=1Asheville

Center For 70 Woodfin Place, Suite West Wing TwoAsheville, NC

28801 828.258.2777kbartlett

<http://www.acupunctureasheville.com/>

<http://www.acupunctureasheville.com/>February 15, 2008Secretary Michael O.

Leavitt info U.S. Department of Health and Human Services Via

U. S. Mail200 Independence Avenue, S.W.Washington, D.C. 20201Secretary Leavitt:I

am writing you on behalf of the American Association of Acupuncture andOriental

Medicine (AAAOM) which is the national association representingprofessional

acupuncturists in America. There are more than 20,000 fullytrained and licensed

professional providers of acupuncture and Orientalmedicine (AOM) in the United

States.I would like to raise two concerns at this juncture. The first is

theNational Center for Complementary and Alternative Medicine's

(NCCAM)compliance with federal requirements regarding representation

ofComplementary and Alternative Medicine (CAM) providers on its NationalAdvisory

Council, and more specifically, adequate and appropriaterepresentation for

acupuncturists. The second is the appointment to theNCCAM of an individual who

has published credentials we have been unable toverify.NCCAM's National Advisory

Council is required to have nine members who arelicensed in complementary or

alternative medicine. There is currently onelicensed acupuncturist on the

Council (Dr. Ted Kaptchuk), and his term willexpire next year. The work of the

Council is critical in guiding theresearch priorities of complementary and

alternative medicine in the U.S. Assuch, the American public deserves to have

research advisors who arequalified subject-matter experts presiding over

research that can affect thequality of, and access to, acupuncture care. The

AAAOM offers its assistancein creating a solution for full compliance by the

NCCAM.Secondly, it has come to my attention that Dr. Lupo Carlota has

beenappointed to the NCCAM Advisory Council. Dr. Carlota is a physician

whomarkets a 5-day training program to other physicians that he calls

" MeridianRegulatory Acupuncture " . The AAAOM does not consider short-course

trainedindividuals to be qualified representatives of the profession. Dr.

Carlotais not a licensed acupuncturist and, although he lists his credentials

as " DiplAc, " we have verified that he is not certified by the

NationalCertification Commission for Acupuncture and Oriental Medicine

(NCCAOM).This is a misrepresentation of his qualifications. I respectfully

requestthat you reconsider this appointment, given that he does not

adequatelyrepresent CAM work in the field of acupuncture.The AAAOM supports the

work of the National Advisory Council and NCCAM as weconsider acupuncture

research to be vital to the American healthcarelandscape. Therefore, I am

requesting that at least two licensed andnationally certified acupuncturists be

appointed to the NCCAM AdvisoryCouncil. I would be pleased to send you a list of

qualified persons to beconsidered for appointment.Sincerely,Martin Herbkersman,

MTOM, DAcPresident, AAAOM*********** END REDIRECTED MESSAGE ***********-- Kath

Bartlett, LAc, MS, BA UCLABoard Certified in Oriental Medicine,

NCCAOMExperienced, Dedicated, EffectiveFlying Dragon Liniment:Effective pain

relief for muscles & jointsFormulated by Kath Bartlett, Traditional Chinese

HerbalistAvailable at Asheville Center for , or web order

at:https://www.kamwo.com/shop/product.php?productid=17442 & cat=0 & page=1Asheville

Center For 70 Woodfin Place, Suite West Wing TwoAsheville, NC

28801

828.258.2777kbartlett[Non-t\

ext portions of this message have been removed]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Don,

 

Just to shed a bit of light on first-professional medical degrees...

 

In China and most of the world outside of North America, first-

professional medical degrees are bachelors degrees requiring five or

so years of school plus a year or more of internship. Clinical

specialties involve another two or three years after which a masters

degree is conferred.

 

The first-professional bachelors degrees (e.g., BMBS, MBChB, etc) are

regarded as academically identical to an MD in North America. They

differ in nomenclature only. The medical masters degree is

considered to be the equivalent of the postgraduate MD in North America.

 

Doctoral medical degrees in the rest of the world tend to be medical

research degrees equivalent to a medical PhD here in the US. They

are not clinical medical degrees and do not lead to licensing as a

physician.

 

That said, I do agree that NCCAM should appoint a fully trained and

qualified AOM practitioner, whatever their postnominal letters.

 

--Bill.

 

--

Bill Mosca, LAc

San Francisco CA

mosca

 

 

On Apr 1, 2008, at 8:28 AM, Donald Snow wrote:

 

> Nice to hear that others are taking umbrage on the appointments at

> NCCAM. I wrote a number of letters last year complaining of these

> very things. Their answer to me was that they hire Doctors from

> China (MDs) that know acupuncture better than us here in America.

> I take exception to that since many of the " MD's " in China only

> have a BMBS or at most a Master's degree that they claim is

> equivalent to the MD professional degree.

>

> When I responded to that by saying that China does have a doctorate

> degree and that if their Bachelors or Masters is equivalent to our

> MD degree, " what is their doctorate equivalent to, God? " I also

> informed them that we, too, have a doctorate; the DAOM. I was met

> with silence after that.

>

> However, I have kept all of their responses in my computer. It

> would be nice to see more acupuncturist doing research in

> acupuncture instead of MD that have no real training. Why don't

> they allow us to do research in western medicine, we have more

> training in WM than they have in OM.

>

>

> Donald J. Snow, DAOM, MPH, LAc

[Guest guest]

i'm thinking the AMA is behind the omission of LAc's on the board. as far

as research goes, we'd be better at doing the research of our medicine. i

understand that the grant $ is there for those who have the know how and

interest in putting the studies together. we haven't yet gotten a critical

mass of these folks out there, but hopefully the daom programs will help

change that.

 

kudos to you for persevering with NCCAM on this issue.

 

kath

 

On Tue, Apr 1, 2008 at 11:28 AM, Donald Snow <don83407 wrote:

 

>

> Nice to hear that others are taking umbrage on the appointments at NCCAM.

> I wrote a number of letters last year complaining of these very things.

> Their answer to me was that they hire Doctors from China (MDs) that know

> acupuncture better than us here in America. I take exception to that since

> many of the " MD's " in China only have a BMBS or at most a Master's degree

> that they claim is equivalent to the MD professional degree.

>

> When I responded to that by saying that China does have a doctorate degree

> and that if their Bachelors or Masters is equivalent to our MD degree, " what

> is their doctorate equivalent to, God? " I also informed them that we, too,

> have a doctorate; the DAOM. I was met with silence after that.

>

> However, I have kept all of their responses in my computer. It would be

> nice to see more acupuncturist doing research in acupuncture instead of MD

> that have no real training. Why don't they allow us to do research in

> western medicine, we have more training in WM than they have in OM.

>

>

> Donald J. Snow, DAOM, MPH, LAc

>

> alumni <alumni%40pacificcollege.eduCC>:

>

Chinese Traditional Medicine<Chinese Traditional Medicine%40\

From>:

> acukath <acukath%40gmail.comDate>: Mon, 31 Mar 2008 20:13:12

> -0400Reply from AAAOM re: letter to NCCAM: acupuncturists not

> on board

>

> I recieved this prompt reply from AAAOM (included below my signature,

> scrolldown) in regards to my letter about the lack of LAc's on the NCCAM

> board.it seems NCCAM hasn't responded to Martin's february letter, but are

> stillallowing them more time to reply before sending out a second letter. if

> asecond letter is needed, it is at that time that they will ask for

> lettersfrom the profession to be sent to NCCAM.several of you supported my

> letter with letters of your own. i thank youfor backing me. if more feel

> compelled to respond at this time, i think itwould help if the powers that

> be heard first hand from the rank and file andknow they have our support.

> especially NCCAM needs to know that we areserious.insolidarity,kath----------

Forwarded message ----------Rebekah J

> Christensen <rchristensen <rchristensen%40mindspring.com>>Date:

> Mon, Mar 31, 2008 at 2:51 PMRE: Atten: Martin Herbkersman, Pres

> AAAOM re: letter to NCCAM:acupuncturists not on board " Kath Bartlett, MS,

> LAc (Redirected by American Association of OrientalMedicine <

> orientalmeds <orientalmeds%40mindspring.com>>) " <

> acukath <acukath%40gmail.com>>Cc: " Martin Herbkersman (

> Martinaaom (AT) Palmettoacupuncture (DOT) Com) "

<martinaaom<martinaaom%40palmettoacupuncture.com>>Greeti\

ngs

> Ms. Bartlett:We are allowing NCCAM time to respond to our letter, and then

> will befollowing up if there is no response. This response will be posted

> with aproposed letter that our practitioners can use. Additionally, we

> haveinvited and have received confirmation that Dr. Josephine Briggs,

> Directorof NCAMM will be a keynote speaker at our General Session Opening at

> Expo2008 in Chicago, October 16-19. The date of her presentation will be

> themorning of October 17. We anticipate this opportunity will allow our

> voiceto effectively be heard by the NCCAM administration. If you would like

> tolearn more about Dr. Briggs, I've attached a link to her bio:

> http://nccam.nih.gov/news/2008/012408.htm.I'm pleased that you find

> AAAOM's political action on behalf of theprofession value added. We

> sincerely hope that you will decide to continueyour

> membership.http://www.aaom.info/docs/mb_joint.pdf. This provides benefits

> for jointmembers, which is our member category for members that are also

> members oftheir state association, which is $50 less annually ($200 rather

> than $250).Here is a link to our online member application:

> https://www.aaom.info/memberapp.html. Or, please feel free to reach

> ustoll-free @ 866-455-7999 to join over the phone, and ask for Brian

> Smither.Thank you for writing to express both your concerns and support.

> Yourfeedback is most appreciated.Sincerely,Rebekah J. ChristensenExecutive

> DirectorAmerican Association of Acupuncture and Oriental Medicine (AAAOM)P.

> O. Box 162340 (Mailing Address)909 22nd StreetSacramento, CA 95816Phone:

> 916-443-4770 Fax: 916-443-4766800:

>

866-455-7999rchristensen<866-455-7999rchriste\

nsen%40aaaomonline.orgwww.aaaomonline.org>-----Original

> Message----- (Redirected by " American

> Association ofOriental Medicine "

<orientalmeds<orientalmeds%40mindspring.com>>)

> [acukath <acukath%40gmail.com>]Sunday, March 30,

> 2008 11:22 AMRebekah Christensen, Executive Director AAAOMSubject:

> Atten: Martin Herbkersman, Pres AAAOM re: letter to NCCAM:acupuncturists not

> on board*********** BEGIN REDIRECTED MESSAGE ***********Dear Martin

> Herkersman,I am writing to thank you for your letter to NCCAM (National Ctr

> forComplementary & Alt Med) regarding its recent appointments. (pasted below

> mysignature for reference: scroll down). You speak from the hearts of all

> ofthe LAc's you represent in calling for a correction of their recent error

> ofincluding no LAc's in the recent appointments to the board which

> overseesNCCAM research in the field of acupuncture. Our field is one of the

> areasof alt med the American public is most interesting in pursuing and

> learningmore about. As you pointed out, it is indeed important to have

> several LAcson the board. I became alarmed when learning that NCCAM board

> member TedKaptchuk's term of service is up next year, and the only other so

> calledrepresentative of our field is the newly appointed Lupo Carlota, an MD

> whohas only completed a 5 day course in acupuncture, yet misrepresents

> hiscredentials as having earned a Dipl. Ac. from NCCAOM. Of course he

> shouldbe replaced by a LAc, as you have called for. I can not imagine why

> NCCAMwould not see the necessity of having several LAc's on thier board when

> ourfield is one of the largest and fully credentialed (read credible) of

> thevarious types of alt med NCCAM represents.I am wondering what we can do

> as individuals to support and back your callto NCCAM to correct this error

> of board appointees. Perhaps a petition oremails could be sent. I was not

> able to find your letter on the AAAOMwebsite, and recommend you place it in

> a prominent spot so more folks willbecome aware of this important issue

> facing our profession.Political actions like this is why I support AAAOM

> with my professionalmembership. After reading your letter in Acupuncture

> Today, I went to theAAAOM website to check my membership status to be sure I

> was up to date, butcould not find a way to do this. I also recommend

> correcting this problemon the website, as well.Thank you for your

> commitment to our profession, and for addressing thisimportant issue on our

> behalf.With heartfelt appreciation,Kath Bartlett--Kath Bartlett, LAc, MS,

> BA UCLAOriental Medicine Experienced,

> Dedicated,EffectiveFlying Dragon Liniment:Effective pain relief for muscles

> & joints Formulated by Kath Bartlett,Traditional Chinese Herbalist Available

> at Asheville Center for ChineseMedicine, or web order at:

>

https://www.kamwo.com/shop/product.php?productid=17442 & cat=0 & page=1AshevilleCent\

er For 70 Woodfin Place, Suite West Wing TwoAsheville,

> NC 28801

>

828.258.2777kbartlett<828.2\

58.2777kbartlett%40AcupunctureAsheville.comwww.AcupunctureAsheville.com><

> http://www.acupunctureasheville.com/> <

> http://www.acupunctureasheville.com/>February 15, 2008Secretary Michael O.

> Leavitt info <info%40nccam.nih.govThe> U.S. Department of

> Health and Human Services Via U. S. Mail200 Independence Avenue,

> S.W.Washington, D.C. 20201Secretary Leavitt:I am writing you on behalf of

> the American Association of Acupuncture andOriental Medicine (AAAOM) which

> is the national association representingprofessional acupuncturists in

> America. There are more than 20,000 fullytrained and licensed professional

> providers of acupuncture and Orientalmedicine (AOM) in the United

States.Iwould like to raise two concerns at this juncture. The first is

theNational

> Center for Complementary and Alternative Medicine's (NCCAM)compliance with

> federal requirements regarding representation ofComplementary and

> Alternative Medicine (CAM) providers on its NationalAdvisory Council, and

> more specifically, adequate and appropriaterepresentation for

> acupuncturists. The second is the appointment to theNCCAM of an individual

> who has published credentials we have been unable toverify.NCCAM's

> National Advisory Council is required to have nine members who arelicensed

> in complementary or alternative medicine. There is currently onelicensed

> acupuncturist on the Council (Dr. Ted Kaptchuk), and his term willexpire

> next year. The work of the Council is critical in guiding theresearch

> priorities of complementary and alternative medicine in the U.S. Assuch,

> the American public deserves to have research advisors who arequalified

> subject-matter experts presiding over research that can affect thequality

> of, and access to, acupuncture care. The AAAOM offers its assistancein

> creating a solution for full compliance by the NCCAM.Secondly, it has come

> to my attention that Dr. Lupo Carlota has beenappointed to the NCCAM

> Advisory Council. Dr. Carlota is a physician whomarkets a 5-day training

> program to other physicians that he calls " MeridianRegulatory Acupuncture " .

> The AAAOM does not consider short-course trainedindividuals to be qualified

> representatives of the profession. Dr. Carlotais not a licensed

> acupuncturist and, although he lists his credentials as " DiplAc, " we have

> verified that he is not certified by the NationalCertification Commission

> for Acupuncture and Oriental Medicine (NCCAOM).This is a misrepresentation

> of his qualifications. I respectfully requestthat you reconsider this

> appointment, given that he does not adequatelyrepresent CAM work in the

> field of acupuncture.The AAAOM supports the work of the National Advisory

> Council and NCCAM as weconsider acupuncture research to be vital to the

> American healthcarelandscape. Therefore, I am requesting that at least two

> licensed andnationally certified acupuncturists be appointed to the NCCAM

> AdvisoryCouncil. I would be pleased to send you a list of qualified persons

> to beconsidered for appointment.Sincerely,Martin Herbkersman, MTOM,

> DAcPresident, AAAOM*********** END REDIRECTED MESSAGE ***********-- Kath

> Bartlett, LAc, MS, BA UCLABoard Certified in Oriental Medicine,

> NCCAOMExperienced, Dedicated, EffectiveFlying Dragon Liniment:Effective pain

> relief for muscles & jointsFormulated by Kath Bartlett, Traditional Chinese

> HerbalistAvailable at Asheville Center for , or web order

> at:

>

https://www.kamwo.com/shop/product.php?productid=17442 & cat=0 & page=1AshevilleCent\

er For 70 Woodfin Place, Suite West Wing TwoAsheville,

> NC 28801

>

828.258.2777kbartlett<828.2\

58.2777kbartlett%40AcupunctureAsheville.comwww.AcupunctureAsheville.com>[Non-tex\

t

> portions of this message have been removed]

>

>

[Guest guest]

Don,

 

Just to shed a bit of light on first-professional medical degrees...

 

In China and most of the world outside of North America, first-

professional medical degrees are bachelors degrees requiring five or

so years of school plus a year or more of internship. Clinical

specialties involve another two or three years after which a masters

degree is conferred.

 

The first-professional bachelors degrees (e.g., BMBS, MBChB, etc) are

regarded as academically identical to an MD in North America. They

differ in nomenclature only. The medical masters degree is

considered to be the equivalent of the postgraduate MD in North America.

 

Doctoral medical degrees in the rest of the world tend to be medical

research degrees equivalent to a medical PhD here in the US. They

are not clinical medical degrees and do not lead to licensing as a

physician.

 

That said, I do agree that NCCAM should appoint a fully trained and

qualified AOM practitioner, whatever their postnominal letters.

 

--Bill.

 

--

Bill Mosca, LAc

San Francisco CA

mosca

 

 

On Apr 1, 2008, at 8:28 AM, Donald Snow wrote:

 

> Nice to hear that others are taking umbrage on the appointments at

> NCCAM. I wrote a number of letters last year complaining of these

> very things. Their answer to me was that they hire Doctors from

> China (MDs) that know acupuncture better than us here in America.

> I take exception to that since many of the " MD's " in China only

> have a BMBS or at most a Master's degree that they claim is

> equivalent to the MD professional degree.

>

> When I responded to that by saying that China does have a doctorate

> degree and that if their Bachelors or Masters is equivalent to our

> MD degree, " what is their doctorate equivalent to, God? " I also

> informed them that we, too, have a doctorate; the DAOM. I was met

> with silence after that.

>

> However, I have kept all of their responses in my computer. It

> would be nice to see more acupuncturist doing research in

> acupuncture instead of MD that have no real training. Why don't

> they allow us to do research in western medicine, we have more

> training in WM than they have in OM.

>

>

> Donald J. Snow, DAOM, MPH, LAc

[Guest guest]

Hi Bill,

 

Nice to hear from you again. However, you are talking to the choir. I'm a

retired military medical officer and am quite aware of the degree requirements

of foreign countries. My point was that I know PA's with Master's and Doctorate

degrees in PA/Medical Sciences that are not MD equivalents but can practice

medicine with the same results as an MD. Length of academic time was my point

and the DAOM with a Bachelor's degree, MSTOM and the DAOM have substantially

more academic time than the four or five years BMBS without the symantic and

legal benifits. Also, the average modern acupuncturist has much more official

schooling in western allopathic medicine than the MD has in Oriental Medicine.

I personally practiced western medicine for 22 years before entering this

wonderful field of OM and western medicine is not that hard to learn and

practice.

 

Sincerely,

 

Don J. Snow, DAOM, MPH, LAc.

 

 

: mosca:

Wed, 2 Apr 2008 12:54:51 -0700Re: Reply from AAAOM re: letter to

NCCAM: acupuncturists not on board

 

 

 

 

Don,Just to shed a bit of light on first-professional medical degrees...In China

and most of the world outside of North America, first- professional medical

degrees are bachelors degrees requiring five or so years of school plus a year

or more of internship. Clinical specialties involve another two or three years

after which a masters degree is conferred.The first-professional bachelors

degrees (e.g., BMBS, MBChB, etc) are regarded as academically identical to an MD

in North America. They differ in nomenclature only. The medical masters degree

is considered to be the equivalent of the postgraduate MD in North

America.Doctoral medical degrees in the rest of the world tend to be medical

research degrees equivalent to a medical PhD here in the US. They are not

clinical medical degrees and do not lead to licensing as a physician.That said,

I do agree that NCCAM should appoint a fully trained and qualified AOM

practitioner, whatever their postnominal letters.--Bill.--Bill Mosca, LAcSan

Francisco CAmosca On Apr 1, 2008, at 8:28 AM, Donald Snow

wrote:> Nice to hear that others are taking umbrage on the appointments at >

NCCAM. I wrote a number of letters last year complaining of these > very things.

Their answer to me was that they hire Doctors from > China (MDs) that know

acupuncture better than us here in America. > I take exception to that since

many of the " MD's " in China only > have a BMBS or at most a Master's degree that

they claim is > equivalent to the MD professional degree.>> When I responded to

that by saying that China does have a doctorate > degree and that if their

Bachelors or Masters is equivalent to our > MD degree, " what is their doctorate

equivalent to, God? " I also > informed them that we, too, have a doctorate; the

DAOM. I was met > with silence after that.>> However, I have kept all of their

responses in my computer. It > would be nice to see more acupuncturist doing

research in > acupuncture instead of MD that have no real training. Why don't >

they allow us to do research in western medicine, we have more > training in WM

than they have in OM.>>> Donald J. Snow, DAOM, MPH, LAc