Pulse taking on the Ulna side of wrist??

[Guest guest]

Hi,

 

I have a question about pulse diagnosis.

I have a patient where I cant feel her pulses at all on the radial artery. There

is just nothing there.

She was surprised I could not feel anything and said that she could feel them

very clearly and starting to feel them on the ulna side of her wrist.

 

My question is can you take a diagnostic pulse from the ulna side of the wrist

in the exact same way as you can on the radial side, or is it diagnostically

significant that there are no pulses on the radial side.

 

Any thoughts/help appreciated..

 

Thanks

 

 

[Guest guest]

Darren:

 

It may be far better to work with the traditional pulse points a bit

more, as " no pulse is a pulse " . And maybe you are trying too hard to

find a " blood " pulse rather than a Qi pulse.

 

There was a time (say 35 years ago) when combining the ulnar and radial

pulses on one wrist was used to complete the pulse diagnosis, with the

ulnar pulses representing Heart, Liver, Kidney from Cun respectively.

I have no references for this however. I prefer the traditional two

handed method using cun, guan and chi bilaterally.

 

When pulses are weak or indeterminent, I usually blame my palpation

skills and try other methods to confirm. Using the carotid, dorsalis

pedis and tibial pulses work very well. I try to use several sources

to assure I am palpating what I think I am palpating.

 

Any good Acupuncture text will demonstrate the use of these points to

you. I happen to like Li Shi Zhen's " Pulse Diagnosis " because it is

inexpensive, through and complex, but any good text will do.

 

A therapeutic trial based on what else you find might be in order with

this individual, but watch out you could make her condition worse. I

would be concerned about dizziness and fainting during or after

treatment.

 

Bill

[Guest guest]

Thank you Bill for the reply.

 

I do get a feeling of a Qi pulse at the radial pulse, so will keep going and

follow your advice.

I am treating a lady with a shoulder injury and it has been going well.

She also has signs of Blood Stagnation, so I just used Liv 3 to see how she

responded, I was worried about doing the wrong treatment due to not being able

to asses the pulses, but she has had some improvment anyway..

 

Thanks for your help

 

 

 

-

William Morse, D.C., FIACA

Chinese Medicine

Tuesday, March 11, 2008 2:38 AM

Re: Pulse taking on the Ulna side of wrist??

 

 

Darren:

 

It may be far better to work with the traditional pulse points a bit

more, as " no pulse is a pulse " . And maybe you are trying too hard to

find a " blood " pulse rather than a Qi pulse.

 

There was a time (say 35 years ago) when combining the ulnar and radial

pulses on one wrist was used to complete the pulse diagnosis, with the

ulnar pulses representing Heart, Liver, Kidney from Cun respectively.

I have no references for this however. I prefer the traditional two

handed method using cun, guan and chi bilaterally.

 

When pulses are weak or indeterminent, I usually blame my palpation

skills and try other methods to confirm. Using the carotid, dorsalis

pedis and tibial pulses work very well. I try to use several sources

to assure I am palpating what I think I am palpating.

 

Any good Acupuncture text will demonstrate the use of these points to

you. I happen to like Li Shi Zhen's " Pulse Diagnosis " because it is

inexpensive, through and complex, but any good text will do.

 

A therapeutic trial based on what else you find might be in order with

this individual, but watch out you could make her condition worse. I

would be concerned about dizziness and fainting during or after

treatment.

 

Bill

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

some people have a deviated radial artery; *if* this is the case, you may find

it medial, or it

could be buried. if so, use the ulnar pulse.

 

Chinese Medicine , " William Morse, D.C.,

FIACA "

<dokkabill wrote:

>

> Darren:

>

> It may be far better to work with the traditional pulse points a bit

> more, as " no pulse is a pulse " . And maybe you are trying too hard to

> find a " blood " pulse rather than a Qi pulse.

>

> There was a time (say 35 years ago) when combining the ulnar and radial

> pulses on one wrist was used to complete the pulse diagnosis, with the

> ulnar pulses representing Heart, Liver, Kidney from Cun respectively.

> I have no references for this however. I prefer the traditional two

> handed method using cun, guan and chi bilaterally.

>

> When pulses are weak or indeterminent, I usually blame my palpation

> skills and try other methods to confirm. Using the carotid, dorsalis

> pedis and tibial pulses work very well. I try to use several sources

> to assure I am palpating what I think I am palpating.

>

> Any good Acupuncture text will demonstrate the use of these points to

> you. I happen to like Li Shi Zhen's " Pulse Diagnosis " because it is

> inexpensive, through and complex, but any good text will do.

>

> A therapeutic trial based on what else you find might be in order with

> this individual, but watch out you could make her condition worse. I

> would be concerned about dizziness and fainting during or after

> treatment.

>

> Bill

>

[Guest guest]

When I have patients with damaged radial pulses, I use the channel

pulses at K3, Liv3, taiyang, St. 9/renying, St. 42, etc. They are

described in the Su Wen and Shang Han Lun, among other sources.

 

 

On Mar 11, 2008, at 4:23 AM, fiammasita wrote:

 

> some people have a deviated radial artery; *if* this is the case,

> you may find it medial, or it

> could be buried. if so, use the ulnar pulse.

>

> Chinese Medicine , " William Morse,

> D.C., FIACA "

> <dokkabill wrote:

> >

> > Darren:

> >

> > It may be far better to work with the traditional pulse points a bit

> > more, as " no pulse is a pulse " . And maybe you are trying too hard to

> > find a " blood " pulse rather than a Qi pulse.

>

>

 

 

Chair, Department of Herbal Medicine

Pacific College of Oriental Medicine

San Diego, Ca. 92122