Guest guest Posted March 7, 2008 Report Share Posted March 7, 2008 i do not believe we can offer a discount to doctors in return for referrals. this would be paying for patients and would not be legal/ethical, to my knowledge. this may be a question for an atty for verification. kb On Fri, Mar 7, 2008 at 2:03 AM, <KSVaughan2 wrote: > However if the doctors are referring patients to us, then a discount is > in order. > > > Karen > > Karen Vaughan, MSTOM > Licensed Acupuncturist > Registered Herbalist (AHG) > 253 Garfield Place > Brooklyn, NY 11215 > > (718) 622-6755 > > Co-Conspirator to Make the World A Better Place: Visit > http://www.heroicstories.com/ and join the conspiracy > See my Acupuncture and Herbalism website at: > http://www.byregion.net/profiles/ksvaughan2.html<http://ksvaughan2.byregion.net/\ > > * > *Stop Mountaintop Removal Mining: www.Ilovemountains.org<http://www.democracyinaction.org/dia/organizations/appvoi\ ces/campaign.jsp?campaign_KEY=14105 & t=iLoveMountainsMAIN.dwt> > * > ** > * " Love is an act of faith, and whoever is of little faith is also of > little love. " - Erich Fromm > In a message dated 3/6/2008 6:01:51 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, > acukath writes: > > kim: > > great question, and one that i'm glad you asked, as i've been thinking > about this myself after recieving a generous discount from my > optometrist/patient and soon afterward having had a couple of practitioners > (LAcs) in my area asking me about recieving tx. > > my thoughts: i think the west. practitioners are accustomed to > discounting fees that they inflate for insurance purposes, so when they > offer a professional discount of say 20% it doesn't affect them financially > in the same way it does us, since we are cash based, with an lower fee > schedule to start. that being said, as LAcs commonly trade amoungst one > another, it seems to me that offering a prof disc in lieu of trading is > a generous professional courtesy. i have not been offered this by other > LAc's in my area to whom i've paid for tx; however, it feels like something > i would like and am willing to do for a fellow LAc. in need of tx. i like > the idea of an unspoken code that this is something we offer to one > another. it is quite a complement to have a fellow LAc choose us to recieve > tx and improves one's professional standing in her/his area. > > doctors are another matter, as they make a heck of a lot more $ than we > do, and can well afford our lower/reasonable cash-based fee structure. as i > said, they inflate their fees because they play the insur game, so 20% off > the top for them is not felt in the same way we would feel that pay cut. > > my 2 cents. i'm interested in others thoughts on this subject. > > kath > > On Thu, Mar 6, 2008 at 2:31 PM, K wrote: > > > Hi everyone, > > > > Aside from having your friend/collegues give you treatments, is there an > > industry standard where we treat each other in our field at a discounted > > rate? I'm asking because I recently visited my podiatrist for new orthodics, > > and he told me that while they usually cost a certain amount to the general > > public, he was giving me the " practitioners " price since I was not part of > > the healthcare industry. This got me thinking...what if I wanted to see an > > acupuncturist who was not a friend of mine - would they extend that kind of > > courtesy towards me? I realize that our fees are based on time and not on > > stuff we sell to the patients, but a slightly lowered rate to other > > practitioners sounded like a great idea (at least to me). I'd like to know > > what others think, and if there is a standard that I am not aware of it > > would be great to know about. > > > > Thanks so much, > > > > K > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Need to know the score, the latest news, or you need your Hotmail®-get > > your " fix " . Check it out. <http://www.msnmobilefix.com/Default.aspx> > > > > _____________ > > Alumni mailing list > > Alumni > > http://mail.pacificcollege.edu/mailman/listinfo/alumni > > > > > > > -- > Kath Bartlett, LAc, MS, BA UCLA > Oriental Medicine > Experienced, Dedicated, Effective > > Flying Dragon Liniment: > Effective pain relief for muscles & joints > Formulated by Kath Bartlett, Traditional Chinese Herbalist > Available at Asheville Center for , or web order at: > https://www.kamwo.com/shop/product.php?productid=17442 & cat=0 & page=1 > > > Asheville Center For > 70 Woodfin Place, Suite West Wing Two > Asheville, NC 28801 828.258.2777 > kbartlett > www.AcupunctureAsheville.com <http://www.acupunctureasheville.com/> > > _____________ > Alumni mailing list > Alumni > http://mail.pacificcollege.edu/mailman/listinfo/alumni > > > > > ------------------------------ > It's Tax Time! Get tips, forms and advice on AOL Money & Finance.<http://money.aol.com/tax?NCID=aolprf00030000000001> > -- Kath Bartlett, LAc, MS, BA UCLA Oriental Medicine Experienced, Dedicated, Effective Flying Dragon Liniment: Effective pain relief for muscles & joints Formulated by Kath Bartlett, Traditional Chinese Herbalist Available at Asheville Center for , or web order at: https://www.kamwo.com/shop/product.php?productid=17442 & cat=0 & page=1 Asheville Center For 70 Woodfin Place, Suite West Wing Two Asheville, NC 28801 828.258.2777 kbartlett www.AcupunctureAsheville.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 8, 2008 Report Share Posted March 8, 2008 Compensation for referrals is generally not legal or ethical, but the specifics will depend on your state laws in most cases. The " Stark Law " is federal legislation. It clearly states that providing valuable consideration to other professionals for referrals is illegal. However, this law only applies to federally regulated programs such as Medicare and Medicaid. Most states have some similar law that pertains to all patients. California, for example, goes further saying that you can't provide any valuable consideration to *anyone*--not just other professionals-- in exchange for referrals. The relevant statute is California Business & Professions Code Section 650, which reads (in part): <snip-> (a) Except as provided in Chapter 2.3 (commencing with Section 1400) of Division 2 of the Health and Safety Code, the offer, delivery, receipt, or acceptance by any person licensed under this division or the Chiropractic Initiative Act of any rebate, refund, commission, preference, patronage dividend, discount, or other consideration, whether in the form of money or otherwise, as compensation or inducement for referring patients, clients, or customers to any person, irrespective of any membership, proprietary interest or coownership in or with any person to whom these patients, clients, or customers are referred is unlawful. (b) The payment or receipt of consideration for services other than the referral of patients which is based on a percentage of gross revenue or similar type of contractual arrangement shall not be unlawful if the consideration is commensurate with the value of the services furnished or with the fair rental value of any premises or equipment leased or provided by the recipient to the payer. <-snip> There are four factors that must be present in a particular situation in order for any of the referral prohibition laws to apply: 1. There must be a patient referral; 2. The referral must be for a designated health service; 3. The referring provider must get something of value in return when a patient is referred; and 4. There must not be an exemption to the referral law present. You'll, of course, want to check the laws of your own state. --Bill. On Mar 7, 2008, at 3:40 PM, wrote: > i do not believe we can offer a discount to doctors in return for > referrals. this would be paying for patients and would not be > legal/ethical, to my knowledge. this may be a question for an atty > for > verification. > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 8, 2008 Report Share Posted March 8, 2008 its fine to offer a professional discount. the problem is if you are offering them as reward (payment) for referrals. On Sat, Mar 8, 2008 at 10:32 AM, <KSVaughan2 wrote: > I don't know about NC laws, but in NY doctors routinely offer > professional courtesy discounts or free treatments. > > > Karen > > Karen Vaughan, MSTOM > Licensed Acupuncturist > Registered Herbalist (AHG) > 253 Garfield Place > Brooklyn, NY 11215 > > (718) 622-6755 > > Co-Conspirator to Make the World A Better Place: Visit > http://www.heroicstories.com/ and join the conspiracy > See my Acupuncture and Herbalism website at: > http://www.byregion.net/profiles/ksvaughan2.html<http://ksvaughan2.byregion.net/\ > > * > *Stop Mountaintop Removal Mining: www.Ilovemountains.org<http://www.democracyinaction.org/dia/organizations/appvoi\ ces/campaign.jsp?campaign_KEY=14105 & t=iLoveMountainsMAIN.dwt> > * > ** > * > " Love is an act of faith, and whoever is of little faith is also of little > love. " - Erich Fromm > In a message dated 3/7/2008 6:41:58 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, > acukath writes: > > i do not believe we can offer a discount to doctors in return for > referrals. this would be paying for patients and would not be > legal/ethical, to my knowledge. this may be a question for an atty for > verification. > > kb > > On Fri, Mar 7, 2008 at 2:03 AM, <KSVaughan2 wrote: > > > However if the doctors are referring patients to us, then a discount is > > in order. > > > > > > Karen > > > > Karen Vaughan, MSTOM > > Licensed Acupuncturist > > Registered Herbalist (AHG) > > 253 Garfield Place > > Brooklyn, NY 11215 > > > > (718) 622-6755 > > > > Co-Conspirator to Make the World A Better Place: Visit > > http://www.heroicstories.com/ and join the conspiracy > > See my Acupuncture and Herbalism website at: > > http://www.byregion.net/profiles/ksvaughan2.html<http://ksvaughan2.byregion.net/\ > > > * > > *Stop Mountaintop Removal Mining: www.Ilovemountains.org<http://www.democracyinaction.org/dia/organizations/appvoi\ ces/campaign.jsp?campaign_KEY=14105 & t=iLoveMountainsMAIN.dwt> > > * > > ** > > * " Love is an act of faith, and whoever is of little faith is also of > > little love. " - Erich Fromm > > In a message dated 3/6/2008 6:01:51 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, > > acukath writes: > > > > kim: > > > > great question, and one that i'm glad you asked, as i've been thinking > > about this myself after recieving a generous discount from my > > optometrist/patient and soon afterward having had a couple of practitioners > > (LAcs) in my area asking me about recieving tx. > > > > my thoughts: i think the west. practitioners are accustomed to > > discounting fees that they inflate for insurance purposes, so when they > > offer a professional discount of say 20% it doesn't affect them financially > > in the same way it does us, since we are cash based, with an lower fee > > schedule to start. that being said, as LAcs commonly trade amoungst one > > another, it seems to me that offering a prof disc in lieu of trading is > > a generous professional courtesy. i have not been offered this by other > > LAc's in my area to whom i've paid for tx; however, it feels like something > > i would like and am willing to do for a fellow LAc. in need of tx. i like > > the idea of an unspoken code that this is something we offer to one > > another. it is quite a complement to have a fellow LAc choose us to recieve > > tx and improves one's professional standing in her/his area. > > > > doctors are another matter, as they make a heck of a lot more $ than we > > do, and can well afford our lower/reasonable cash-based fee structure. as i > > said, they inflate their fees because they play the insur game, so 20% off > > the top for them is not felt in the same way we would feel that pay cut. > > > > my 2 cents. i'm interested in others thoughts on this subject. > > > > kath > > > > On Thu, Mar 6, 2008 at 2:31 PM, K wrote: > > > > > Hi everyone, > > > > > > Aside from having your friend/collegues give you treatments, is there > > > an industry standard where we treat each other in our field at a discounted > > > rate? I'm asking because I recently visited my podiatrist for new orthodics, > > > and he told me that while they usually cost a certain amount to the general > > > public, he was giving me the " practitioners " price since I was not part of > > > the healthcare industry. This got me thinking...what if I wanted to see an > > > acupuncturist who was not a friend of mine - would they extend that kind of > > > courtesy towards me? I realize that our fees are based on time and not on > > > stuff we sell to the patients, but a slightly lowered rate to other > > > practitioners sounded like a great idea (at least to me). I'd like to know > > > what others think, and if there is a standard that I am not aware of it > > > would be great to know about. > > > > > > Thanks so much, > > > > > > K > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > > Need to know the score, the latest news, or you need your Hotmail®-get > > > your " fix " . Check it out. <http://www.msnmobilefix.com/Default.aspx> > > > > > > _____________ > > > Alumni mailing list > > > Alumni > > > http://mail.pacificcollege.edu/mailman/listinfo/alumni > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > Kath Bartlett, LAc, MS, BA UCLA > > Oriental Medicine > > Experienced, Dedicated, Effective > > > > Flying Dragon Liniment: > > Effective pain relief for muscles & joints > > Formulated by Kath Bartlett, Traditional Chinese Herbalist > > Available at Asheville Center for , or web order at: > > https://www.kamwo.com/shop/product.php?productid=17442 & cat=0 & page=1 > > > > > > Asheville Center For > > 70 Woodfin Place, Suite West Wing Two > > Asheville, NC 28801 828.258.2777 > > kbartlett > > www.AcupunctureAsheville.com <http://www.acupunctureasheville.com/> > > > > _____________ > > Alumni mailing list > > Alumni > > http://mail.pacificcollege.edu/mailman/listinfo/alumni > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > It's Tax Time! Get tips, forms and advice on AOL Money & Finance.<http://money.aol.com/tax?NCID=aolprf00030000000001> > > > > > > -- > Kath Bartlett, LAc, MS, BA UCLA > Oriental Medicine > Experienced, Dedicated, Effective > > Flying Dragon Liniment: > Effective pain relief for muscles & joints > Formulated by Kath Bartlett, Traditional Chinese Herbalist > Available at Asheville Center for , or web order at: > https://www.kamwo.com/shop/product.php?productid=17442 & cat=0 & page=1 > > > Asheville Center For > 70 Woodfin Place, Suite West Wing Two > Asheville, NC 28801 828.258.2777 > kbartlett > www.AcupunctureAsheville.com <http://www.acupunctureasheville.com/> > > _____________ > Alumni mailing list > Alumni > http://mail.pacificcollege.edu/mailman/listinfo/alumni > > > > > ------------------------------ > It's Tax Time! Get tips, forms and advice on AOL Money & Finance.<http://money.aol.com/tax?NCID=aolprf00030000000001> > -- Kath Bartlett, LAc, MS, BA UCLA Oriental Medicine Experienced, Dedicated, Effective Flying Dragon Liniment: Effective pain relief for muscles & joints Formulated by Kath Bartlett, Traditional Chinese Herbalist Available at Asheville Center for , or web order at: https://www.kamwo.com/shop/product.php?productid=17442 & cat=0 & page=1 Asheville Center For 70 Woodfin Place, Suite West Wing Two Asheville, NC 28801 828.258.2777 kbartlett www.AcupunctureAsheville.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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