Plant alternatives to medicinals from Deer Antler

[Guest guest]

Hi All,

 

Could experts on the List suggest the BEST plant alternatives to the

following medicinals:

Lurong

Lujiao

Lujiaojiao

Lujiaoshuang?

 

Paraphrasing Douglas Knapp:

> the patient must come first; animal products are necessary sometimes &

> even monks use them as medicine; Deer are farmed for their meat &

> antlers; If velvet can help children w developmental issues, so be it ...

 

Agreed if Antler products are produced with certified traceability to disease-

free herds & to top standards of animal welfare & food hygiene.

 

Paraphrasing Eric Brand:

> TCM uses several deer antler products; Lurong (Velvet Antler, Soft

> Antler - young, highly vascular & sensitive antler) is most famous deer

> antler product; it is harvested under anesthesia from live farmed deer

> (ultimately used for meat + their antlers, though antlers are collected

> for a few years before deer is killed); basic process is to have deer

> run freely so that antlers get engorged w Xue, then they are

> anesthetized so that antlers can be harvested; I've met Chinese deer

> farmers & all were closely concerned w health & livelihood of their

> deer; They don't want deer to be injured / harmed unnecessarily;

> Regardless of whether / not deer antlers are used in medicine, all

> farmed deer need antler removal, otherwise stags will injure each other

> by using their antlers to fight ...

 

Agreed. Also, stags with antlers (esp ossified / hard antlers) are more

dangerous to the farmer / handler. Removal of horns from cattle (usually

done by disbudding in early calf-hood) is normal farming practice in many

countries.

 

If done under veterinary supervision & w competent anaesthesia, as in New

Zealand " Code for Welfare of Deer During Removal of Antlers " [

http://www.biosecurity.govt.nz/animal-welfare/codes/antlers/index.htm ],

harvesting of Lurong (Velvet Antler / Soft Antler) is painless but causes

some stress - inevitable when deer are mustered, penned and restrained for

dehorning.

 

In contrast, harvesting of Lujiao (Mature Antler, Hard Antler) usually does

not require anaesthesia because properly matured antler is ossified and

insensitive; however, harvesting it causes some inevitable handling-stress to

the deer.

 

I accept some inevitable animal stress in farming (and in hunting), provided

that the farmer, handlers / hunters and processers treat the animals as

humanely as possible under practical situations.

 

My personal reluctance to use many animal-sourced medicinals produced

outside of EU is based mainly on issues related to animal-welfare and food-

safety, rather than a blanket-taboo on animal medicinals per se.

 

Paraphrasing Eric again:

> After harvesting, Lurong is divided into Xuerong (antler with blood) &

> Paixuerong (antler drained of blood); Xuerong is much stronger but

> Paixuerong can be used as Tonic in very weak patients who cannot stand

> strong Tonics;

 

Eric, many thanks - most helpful.

 

Can you give an URL that shows the HANZI term for Paixuerong? I have the

HANZI terms on file for all other antler medicinals named above EXCEPT

that one.

 

Best regards,

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

also, suggestions for alternatives/subs for gui ban and di long would also

be helpful.

 

kath

 

On Feb 6, 2008 2:45 PM, < wrote:

 

> Hi All,

>

> Could experts on the List suggest the BEST plant alternatives to the

> following medicinals:

> Lurong

> Lujiao

> Lujiaojiao

> Lujiaoshuang?

>

> Paraphrasing Douglas Knapp:

> > the patient must come first; animal products are necessary sometimes &

> > even monks use them as medicine; Deer are farmed for their meat &

> > antlers; If velvet can help children w developmental issues, so be it

> ...

>

> Agreed if Antler products are produced with certified traceability to

> disease-

> free herds & to top standards of animal welfare & food hygiene.

>

> Paraphrasing Eric Brand:

> > TCM uses several deer antler products; Lurong (Velvet Antler, Soft

> > Antler - young, highly vascular & sensitive antler) is most famous deer

> > antler product; it is harvested under anesthesia from live farmed deer

> > (ultimately used for meat + their antlers, though antlers are collected

> > for a few years before deer is killed); basic process is to have deer

> > run freely so that antlers get engorged w Xue, then they are

> > anesthetized so that antlers can be harvested; I've met Chinese deer

> > farmers & all were closely concerned w health & livelihood of their

> > deer; They don't want deer to be injured / harmed unnecessarily;

> > Regardless of whether / not deer antlers are used in medicine, all

> > farmed deer need antler removal, otherwise stags will injure each other

> > by using their antlers to fight ...

>

> Agreed. Also, stags with antlers (esp ossified / hard antlers) are more

> dangerous to the farmer / handler. Removal of horns from cattle (usually

> done by disbudding in early calf-hood) is normal farming practice in many

> countries.

>

> If done under veterinary supervision & w competent anaesthesia, as in New

> Zealand " Code for Welfare of Deer During Removal of Antlers " [

> http://www.biosecurity.govt.nz/animal-welfare/codes/antlers/index.htm ],

> harvesting of Lurong (Velvet Antler / Soft Antler) is painless but causes

> some stress - inevitable when deer are mustered, penned and restrained for

>

> dehorning.

>

> In contrast, harvesting of Lujiao (Mature Antler, Hard Antler) usually

> does

> not require anaesthesia because properly matured antler is ossified and

> insensitive; however, harvesting it causes some inevitable handling-stress

> to

> the deer.

>

> I accept some inevitable animal stress in farming (and in hunting),

> provided

> that the farmer, handlers / hunters and processers treat the animals as

> humanely as possible under practical situations.

>

> My personal reluctance to use many animal-sourced medicinals produced

> outside of EU is based mainly on issues related to animal-welfare and

> food-

> safety, rather than a blanket-taboo on animal medicinals per se.

>

> Paraphrasing Eric again:

> > After harvesting, Lurong is divided into Xuerong (antler with blood) &

> > Paixuerong (antler drained of blood); Xuerong is much stronger but

> > Paixuerong can be used as Tonic in very weak patients who cannot stand

> > strong Tonics;

>

> Eric, many thanks - most helpful.

>

> Can you give an URL that shows the HANZI term for Paixuerong? I have the

> HANZI terms on file for all other antler medicinals named above EXCEPT

> that one.

>

> Best regards,

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Chinese Medicine , " "

< wrote:

 

> Can you give an URL that shows the HANZI term for Paixuerong? I have

the

> HANZI terms on file for all other antler medicinals named above EXCEPT

> that one.

 

& #25490; & #34880; & #33592;

Pai= in this context, similar idea as to discharge, to flow out

xue= blood

rong= antler

 

Eric