Guest guest Posted February 5, 2008 Report Share Posted February 5, 2008 Hello everybody, I need your suggestions, my new son doesn't want to birth, the next week the doctor wants to induce the childbirth. Any one has used acupuncture to induce childbirth? Wich points? How much time and for how many days? Thanks you very much, Fernando Dougnac C. Medicina China Centro de Salud Budo F: (56 2) 3255401 .. <http://geo./serv?s=97359714/grpId=9495977/grpspId=1705060814/msgId =28251/stime=1202224394/nc1=5191945/nc2=5191951/nc3=4025304> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 5, 2008 Report Share Posted February 5, 2008 Fernando, The two most common points I use for inducing labour are: LI4 SP6 You can also use as applicable: BL60 BL67 GB21 KI6 ST18 I highly caution against going to down the allopathic hormonal induction route, as the odds of this leading to a caesarean section are quite high (at least here in Canada, one local hospital has a 78% C-section rate for inductions). - Mark On Tue, Feb 5, 2008 at 8:08 AM, Fernando Dougnac <fdo wrote: Hello everybody, I need your suggestions, my new son doesn't want to birth, > the next week the doctor wants to induce the childbirth. Any one has used > acupuncture to induce childbirth? Wich points? How much time and for how > many days? > > Thanks you very much, > > Fernando Dougnac C. > > Medicina China > > Centro de Salud Budo > > F: (56 2) 3255401 > > . > > > <http://geo./serv?s=97359714/grpId=9495977/grpspId=1705060814/msgId > =28251/stime=1202224394/nc1=5191945/nc2=5191951/nc3=4025304> > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 5, 2008 Report Share Posted February 5, 2008 Hi, Mark, thanks for your answer, but a couple of questions more: I have to think the treatment for several days or it should be works the first day? What kind of stimulation I have to use? (strong, soft, reduction, moxibustion, etc) Thanks, Fernando Dougnac C. Medicina China Centro de Salud Budo F: (56 2) 3255401 Cel: (56 8) 2390199 _____ De: Chinese Medicine Chinese Medicine En nombre de Mark Milotay Enviado el: Martes, 05 de Febrero de 2008 14:51 Para: Chinese Medicine Asunto: Re: Induce childbirth... Fernando, The two most common points I use for inducing labour are: LI4 SP6 You can also use as applicable: BL60 BL67 GB21 KI6 ST18 I highly caution against going to down the allopathic hormonal induction route, as the odds of this leading to a caesarean section are quite high (at least here in Canada, one local hospital has a 78% C-section rate for inductions). - Mark On Tue, Feb 5, 2008 at 8:08 AM, Fernando Dougnac <fdo (AT) medicinachina (DOT) <fdo%40medicinachina.cl> cl> wrote: Hello everybody, I need your suggestions, my new son doesn't want to birth, > the next week the doctor wants to induce the childbirth. Any one has used > acupuncture to induce childbirth? Wich points? How much time and for how > many days? > > Thanks you very much, > > Fernando Dougnac C. > > Medicina China > > Centro de Salud Budo > > F: (56 2) 3255401 > > . > > > <http://geo.. <http://geo./serv?s=97359714/grpId=9495977/grpspId=1705060814/msgId > com/serv?s=97359714/grpId=9495977/grpspId=1705060814/msgId > =28251/stime=1202224394/nc1=5191945/nc2=5191951/nc3=4025304> > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 5, 2008 Report Share Posted February 5, 2008 Hi Fernando, I suggest a combination of needling and moxa. I would use medium stimulation, and go with the intent of it taking a couple of days. Before doing that, I would check to make sure that the baby is ready to be born. What is the baby's position? Has the baby dropped yet? You may find that it is more important at this point to make sure that your wife is structurally aligned to allow the baby to easily engage in the pelvis. A combination of needling and a chiropractor who can do a modified Webster technique is probably your best bet. - Mark On Tue, Feb 5, 2008 at 10:38 AM, Fernando Dougnac <fdo wrote: Hi, Mark, thanks for your answer, but a couple of questions more: > > I have to think the treatment for several days or it should be works the > first day? > > What kind of stimulation I have to use? (strong, soft, reduction, > moxibustion, etc) > > Thanks, > > > Fernando Dougnac C. > > Medicina China > > Centro de Salud Budo > > F: (56 2) 3255401 > > Cel: (56 8) 2390199 > > _____ > > De: Chinese Medicine > Chinese Medicine En nombre de Mark > Milotay > Enviado el: Martes, 05 de Febrero de 2008 14:51 > Para: Chinese Medicine > Asunto: Re: Induce childbirth... > > > Fernando, > > The two most common points I use for inducing labour are: > LI4 > SP6 > > You can also use as applicable: > BL60 > BL67 > GB21 > KI6 > ST18 > > I highly caution against going to down the allopathic hormonal > induction route, as the odds of this leading to a caesarean section > are quite high (at least here in Canada, one local hospital has a 78% > C-section rate for inductions). > > - Mark > > On Tue, Feb 5, 2008 at 8:08 AM, Fernando Dougnac <fdo (AT) medicinachina (DOT) > <fdo%40medicinachina.cl> cl> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hello everybody, I need your suggestions, my new son doesn't want to > birth, > > the next week the doctor wants to induce the childbirth. Any one has used > > acupuncture to induce childbirth? Wich points? How much time and for how > > many days? > > > > Thanks you very much, > > > > Fernando Dougnac C. > > > > Medicina China > > > > Centro de Salud Budo > > > > F: (56 2) 3255401 > > > > . > > > > > > <http://geo.. > > <http://geo./serv?s=97359714/grpId=9495977/grpspId=1705060814/msgId > > com/serv?s=97359714/grpId=9495977/grpspId=1705060814/msgId > > =28251/stime=1202224394/nc1=5191945/nc2=5191951/nc3=4025304> > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 5, 2008 Report Share Posted February 5, 2008 I am compensating for too little sleep this morning and not getting everything down in one email (my apologies to the list). Another thing to be aware of is that the due date most doctor's calculate using the birth date whizwheel, are based on the shortest possible date. It has been found that caucasian women tend to gestate 1-3 weeks longer than Asian or African women. Allopathic doctors tend to get antsy once you get past 40 weeks. - Mark On Tue, Feb 5, 2008 at 10:59 AM, Mark Milotay <mark wrote: > Hi Fernando, > > I suggest a combination of needling and moxa. I would use medium > stimulation, and go with the intent of it taking a couple of days. > Before doing that, I would check to make sure that the baby is ready > to be born. What is the baby's position? Has the baby dropped yet? You > may find that it is more important at this point to make sure that > your wife is structurally aligned to allow the baby to easily engage > in the pelvis. A combination of needling and a chiropractor who can do > a modified Webster technique is probably your best bet. > > - Mark > > > > On Tue, Feb 5, 2008 at 10:38 AM, Fernando Dougnac <fdo wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi, Mark, thanks for your answer, but a couple of questions more: > > > > I have to think the treatment for several days or it should be works the > > first day? > > > > What kind of stimulation I have to use? (strong, soft, reduction, > > moxibustion, etc) > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > Fernando Dougnac C. > > > > Medicina China > > > > Centro de Salud Budo > > > > F: (56 2) 3255401 > > > > Cel: (56 8) 2390199 > > > > _____ > > > > De: Chinese Medicine > > Chinese Medicine En nombre de Mark > > Milotay > > Enviado el: Martes, 05 de Febrero de 2008 14:51 > > Para: Chinese Medicine > > Asunto: Re: Induce childbirth... > > > > > > Fernando, > > > > The two most common points I use for inducing labour are: > > LI4 > > SP6 > > > > You can also use as applicable: > > BL60 > > BL67 > > GB21 > > KI6 > > ST18 > > > > I highly caution against going to down the allopathic hormonal > > induction route, as the odds of this leading to a caesarean section > > are quite high (at least here in Canada, one local hospital has a 78% > > C-section rate for inductions). > > > > - Mark > > > > On Tue, Feb 5, 2008 at 8:08 AM, Fernando Dougnac <fdo (AT) medicinachina (DOT) > > <fdo%40medicinachina.cl> cl> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hello everybody, I need your suggestions, my new son doesn't want to > > birth, > > > the next week the doctor wants to induce the childbirth. Any one has used > > > acupuncture to induce childbirth? Wich points? How much time and for how > > > many days? > > > > > > Thanks you very much, > > > > > > Fernando Dougnac C. > > > > > > Medicina China > > > > > > Centro de Salud Budo > > > > > > F: (56 2) 3255401 > > > > > > . > > > > > > > > > <http://geo.. > > > > <http://geo./serv?s=97359714/grpId=9495977/grpspId=1705060814/msgId > > > com/serv?s=97359714/grpId=9495977/grpspId=1705060814/msgId > > > =28251/stime=1202224394/nc1=5191945/nc2=5191951/nc3=4025304> > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 5, 2008 Report Share Posted February 5, 2008 Hi Fernando, I second Marks suggestions. First you have to make sure that the baby is in the right position. Then you have see what the mother needs. Some mothers need movement and some need rest! (Once I induced a birth by only needling St 36 and ordering the women to rest in bed for at least half a day). it is also here best to needle according to her pulse picture. If she likes to take a bath, you can add herbs like rosemary and the like (which increase bloodflow to the pelvic area). Good luck and let us know how it went! Rebekka Chinese Medicine , " Fernando Dougnac " <fdo wrote: > > Hello everybody, I need your suggestions, my new son doesn't want to birth, > the next week the doctor wants to induce the childbirth. Any one has used > acupuncture to induce childbirth? Wich points? How much time and for how > many days? > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 5, 2008 Report Share Posted February 5, 2008 Mark, thanks again, on Thursday we going to do the last echography, if the doctor say that the baby is ready he wants to wait 1 week more to the induction. I want to use acupuncture that week for try to prevent the use of oxytocin. Regards, Fernando Dougnac C. Medicina China Centro de Salud Budo F: (56 2) 3255401 Cel: (56 8) 2390199 _____ De: Chinese Medicine Chinese Medicine En nombre de Mark Milotay Enviado el: Martes, 05 de Febrero de 2008 16:10 Para: Chinese Medicine Asunto: Re: Induce childbirth... I am compensating for too little sleep this morning and not getting everything down in one email (my apologies to the list). Another thing to be aware of is that the due date most doctor's calculate using the birth date whizwheel, are based on the shortest possible date. It has been found that caucasian women tend to gestate 1-3 weeks longer than Asian or African women. Allopathic doctors tend to get antsy once you get past 40 weeks. - Mark On Tue, Feb 5, 2008 at 10:59 AM, Mark Milotay <mark (AT) mindbodyasone (DOT) <mark%40mindbodyasone.com> com> wrote: > Hi Fernando, > > I suggest a combination of needling and moxa. I would use medium > stimulation, and go with the intent of it taking a couple of days. > Before doing that, I would check to make sure that the baby is ready > to be born. What is the baby's position? Has the baby dropped yet? You > may find that it is more important at this point to make sure that > your wife is structurally aligned to allow the baby to easily engage > in the pelvis. A combination of needling and a chiropractor who can do > a modified Webster technique is probably your best bet. > > - Mark > > > > On Tue, Feb 5, 2008 at 10:38 AM, Fernando Dougnac <fdo (AT) medicinachina (DOT) <fdo%40medicinachina.cl> cl> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi, Mark, thanks for your answer, but a couple of questions more: > > > > I have to think the treatment for several days or it should be works the > > first day? > > > > What kind of stimulation I have to use? (strong, soft, reduction, > > moxibustion, etc) > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > Fernando Dougnac C. > > > > Medicina China > > > > Centro de Salud Budo > > > > F: (56 2) 3255401 > > > > Cel: (56 8) 2390199 > > > > _____ > > > > De: Traditional_ <Chinese Medicine%40> Chinese_Medicine > > [Traditional_ <Chinese Medicine%40> Chinese_Medicine ] En nombre de Mark > > Milotay > > Enviado el: Martes, 05 de Febrero de 2008 14:51 > > Para: Traditional_ <Chinese Medicine%40> Chinese_Medicine > > Asunto: Re: Induce childbirth... > > > > > > Fernando, > > > > The two most common points I use for inducing labour are: > > LI4 > > SP6 > > > > You can also use as applicable: > > BL60 > > BL67 > > GB21 > > KI6 > > ST18 > > > > I highly caution against going to down the allopathic hormonal > > induction route, as the odds of this leading to a caesarean section > > are quite high (at least here in Canada, one local hospital has a 78% > > C-section rate for inductions). > > > > - Mark > > > > On Tue, Feb 5, 2008 at 8:08 AM, Fernando Dougnac <fdo (AT) medicinachina (DOT) > > <fdo%40medicinachina.cl> cl> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hello everybody, I need your suggestions, my new son doesn't want to > > birth, > > > the next week the doctor wants to induce the childbirth. Any one has used > > > acupuncture to induce childbirth? Wich points? How much time and for how > > > many days? > > > > > > Thanks you very much, > > > > > > Fernando Dougnac C. > > > > > > Medicina China > > > > > > Centro de Salud Budo > > > > > > F: (56 2) 3255401 > > > > > > . > > > > > > > > > <http://geo.. > > > > <http://geo.. <http://geo./serv?s=97359714/grpId=9495977/grpspId=1705060814/msgId > com/serv?s=97359714/grpId=9495977/grpspId=1705060814/msgId > > > com/serv?s=97359714/grpId=9495977/grpspId=1705060814/msgId > > > =28251/stime=1202224394/nc1=5191945/nc2=5191951/nc3=4025304> > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 5, 2008 Report Share Posted February 5, 2008 I've dealt with this issue both personally in the birth of my daughters and with dozens of my patients. The most effective points are not the classic labor induction points we learned in school. Frankly I've never seen them work... Ever. The best points are UB-31, 32, 33 with STRONG electro-stim. Even with this success is hit and miss. The classic labor induction points don't work in my experience. I've used LI-4 on pregnant woman from time to time and none of them aborted their children. I feel pretty passionate about NOT laying a heavy guilt trip on those that choose induction or those that end up with a caesarian. As an alternative medicine practitioner I got a fair amount of judgment from some of my peers about what happened with our births. Nothing productive can come from that. I have two beautiful happy healthy children, both born from caesarian. The first was with 47 hours of labor mostly at home with midwives that ended up in the hospital with full Western medical intervention. The second was a planned caesarian under doctors strong advice as to the risks facing us. The whole experience has left me far more open and compassionate to what others may choose in their birth experience. Good luck Fernando and congratulations! Christopher Vedeler L.Ac. Oasis Acupuncture http://www.oasisacupuncture.com 9832 N. Hayden Rd. Suite 215 Scottsdale, AZ 85258 Phone: (480) 991-3650 Chinese Medicine Chinese Medicine On Behalf Of Fernando Dougnac Tuesday, February 05, 2008 9:08 AM Chinese Medicine Induce childbirth... Hello everybody, I need your suggestions, my new son doesn't want to birth, the next week the doctor wants to induce the childbirth. Any one has used acupuncture to induce childbirth? Wich points? How much time and for how many days? Thanks you very much, Fernando Dougnac C. Medicina China Centro de Salud Budo F: (56 2) 3255401 .. <http://geo./serv?s=97359714/grpId=9495977/grpspId=1705060814/m sgId =28251/stime=1202224394/nc1=5191945/nc2=5191951/nc3=4025304> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 6, 2008 Report Share Posted February 6, 2008 this is interesting. are there any theories that you no of explaining the different gestation periods: stress/lifestyle, soy in diet? kath On Feb 5, 2008 2:09 PM, Mark Milotay <mark wrote: > I am compensating for too little sleep this morning and not getting > everything down in one email (my apologies to the list). > > Another thing to be aware of is that the due date most doctor's > calculate using the birth date whizwheel, are based on the shortest > possible date. It has been found that caucasian women tend to gestate > 1-3 weeks longer than Asian or African women. > > Allopathic doctors tend to get antsy once you get past 40 weeks. > > - Mark > > > On Tue, Feb 5, 2008 at 10:59 AM, Mark Milotay <mark<mark%40mindbodyasone.com>> > wrote: > > Hi Fernando, > > > > I suggest a combination of needling and moxa. I would use medium > > stimulation, and go with the intent of it taking a couple of days. > > Before doing that, I would check to make sure that the baby is ready > > to be born. What is the baby's position? Has the baby dropped yet? You > > may find that it is more important at this point to make sure that > > your wife is structurally aligned to allow the baby to easily engage > > in the pelvis. A combination of needling and a chiropractor who can do > > a modified Webster technique is probably your best bet. > > > > - Mark > > > > > > > > On Tue, Feb 5, 2008 at 10:38 AM, Fernando Dougnac <fdo<fdo%40medicinachina.cl>> > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi, Mark, thanks for your answer, but a couple of questions more: > > > > > > I have to think the treatment for several days or it should be works > the > > > first day? > > > > > > What kind of stimulation I have to use? (strong, soft, reduction, > > > moxibustion, etc) > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > > > > Fernando Dougnac C. > > > > > > Medicina China > > > > > > Centro de Salud Budo > > > > > > F: (56 2) 3255401 > > > > > > Cel: (56 8) 2390199 > > > > > > _____ > > > > > > De: Chinese Medicine <Chinese Medicine%40yaho\ ogroups.com> > > > [Chinese Medicine <Traditional_Chinese_Medicin\ e%40>] > En nombre de Mark > > > Milotay > > > Enviado el: Martes, 05 de Febrero de 2008 14:51 > > > Para: Chinese Medicine <Chinese Medicine%40yaho\ ogroups.com> > > > Asunto: Re: Induce childbirth... > > > > > > > > > Fernando, > > > > > > The two most common points I use for inducing labour are: > > > LI4 > > > SP6 > > > > > > You can also use as applicable: > > > BL60 > > > BL67 > > > GB21 > > > KI6 > > > ST18 > > > > > > I highly caution against going to down the allopathic hormonal > > > induction route, as the odds of this leading to a caesarean section > > > are quite high (at least here in Canada, one local hospital has a 78% > > > C-section rate for inductions). > > > > > > - Mark > > > > > > On Tue, Feb 5, 2008 at 8:08 AM, Fernando Dougnac <fdo (AT) medicinachina (DOT) > > > <fdo%40medicinachina.cl> cl> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hello everybody, I need your suggestions, my new son doesn't want to > > > birth, > > > > the next week the doctor wants to induce the childbirth. Any one has > used > > > > acupuncture to induce childbirth? Wich points? How much time and for > how > > > > many days? > > > > > > > > Thanks you very much, > > > > > > > > Fernando Dougnac C. > > > > > > > > Medicina China > > > > > > > > Centro de Salud Budo > > > > > > > > F: (56 2) 3255401 > > > > > > > > . > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://geo.. > > > > > > < > http://geo./serv?s=97359714/grpId=9495977/grpspId=1705060814/msgId > > > > com/serv?s=97359714/grpId=9495977/grpspId=1705060814/msgId > > > > =28251/stime=1202224394/nc1=5191945/nc2=5191951/nc3=4025304> > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 6, 2008 Report Share Posted February 6, 2008 There are a couple other considerations in additiona to the good suggestions already offered. Consider if another acupuncturist doing the treatments would be a good idea, if a trusted colleague is available and skilled. I certainly have no idea what your situation is, but I can imagine that it's a stressful enough time just being an impending dad. Assuming that the pregnancy is healthy, baby is in a good position and that the dates are correct (longer menstrual cycles may lead to longer gestation since ovulation is most commonly 14 days before menses occurs), you can try the following: Check the Lung pulse. The lung pulse should float prior to labor. Wang Shu-he described a necessary condition of labor being a superficial pulse. Having the lung be a bit superficial keeps " the lid " from being " too tight " to allow the birth. However odd the concept, I have often wondered what the energetics of the Western herb blue cohosh are in starting labor, and I believe that one of its actions may be in dispersing the lung. I do not suggest that blue cohosh be used. However, its use seems to suggest that a dispersing action may help in initiating labor. I disperse LU 7 when the pulse is deep. There is an extra point in the midpoint of the dorsal (underside) distal interphalageal joint of the second toe called Du yin - it can also be needled to induce labor. The points LI 4 and SP 6 can be used. GB 34 may be used to descend qi and facilitate the softening of the cervix. The previous post that BL 31-33 can be used and are most effective matches my experience. I have used saline injection in these points for the strongest effect. If injection therapy is not in your scope, then e stim is the next most effective method. Consider ear points: posterior pituitary and uterus. Press tacks can be applied to GB 21 and SP 6. It goes without saying that you have to apply the above to the pattern you see. The above techniques work best when there is not an appreciable amount of deficiency. The timing of treatments is important. I have been successful in inducing a labor in one treatment, but am more often successful with repeated treatment. Treat every day for up to 3 days. Then rest a couple days and try again. A biophysical profile can be done by the Western doc to assess the function of the placenta and the health of the baby. A good result in the biophysical profile can often reassure a date-focussed OB, and gives you reasonable reassurance that a couple more days or up to a week of more time to try acupuncture is prudent. Try as much as possible to limit the amount of stress, and sequester yourselves against well meaning friends and realtions whose first words are usually, " Any baby yet? " Take a lot of walks. Have sex (semen has prostaglandins that are helpful in initiating labor). Maybe don't do both at once. Best wishes for your family. Valerie Hobbs Chinese Medicine , " Fernando Dougnac " <fdo wrote: > > Hello everybody, I need your suggestions, my new son doesn't want to birth, > the next week the doctor wants to induce the childbirth. Any one has used > acupuncture to induce childbirth? Wich points? How much time and for how > many days? > > > > Thanks you very much, > > > > Fernando Dougnac C. > > Medicina China > > Centro de Salud Budo > > F: (56 2) 3255401 > > . > > > <http://geo./serv?s=97359714/grpId=9495977/grpspId=1705060814/ msgId > =28251/stime=1202224394/nc1=5191945/nc2=5191951/nc3=4025304> > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 6, 2008 Report Share Posted February 6, 2008 I have to disagree. I have found LI4 and SP6 to work every time in inducing labor. That doesn't mean that it always will work, but I have been fortunate in that regard. I have seen it work around 10 times over the years. Sometimes it takes a few minutes, and sometimes it takes a few days. The last time I induced a labor, 2 months ago, it did take a few days. I had to add UB67 with strong stimulation and she went into labor that night. The key is to be patient and regular. Once you start, do a treatment every day. You can use electricity or you can stimulate the needles manually a few times during the treatment. - Bill Schoenbart Chinese Medicine , " Christopher Vedeler L.Ac. " <vedeler wrote: > > I've dealt with this issue both personally in the birth of my daughters > and with dozens of my patients. > > The most effective points are not the classic labor induction points we > learned in school. Frankly I've never seen them work... Ever. The best > points are UB-31, 32, 33 with STRONG electro-stim. Even with this > success is hit and miss. The classic labor induction points don't work > in my experience. I've used LI-4 on pregnant woman from time to time > and none of them aborted their children. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 6, 2008 Report Share Posted February 6, 2008 While there are many different approaches to the issue of induction of labor, one cannot leave out a very important factor. Every situation of impending labor has its unique as well as universal aspects. There are physiological and emotional issues at work, and different zheng/ patterns that have to be addressed, Without addressing these directly, results will be less than predictable. Even then, some women will not respond to acupuncture or herbal medicine but will require biomedical intervention, no matter what. The best case scenarios are for those women who have worked with Chinese medical providers throughout their pregnancies and even before, using herbal medicine, acupuncture, diet, lifestyle, exercise and emotional management to prepare for birthing. One can not reliably expect to intervene on a case at the last moment and have a great result. I've had much less success with women who called only when labor was nigh than those who I worked with during and before their pregnancies. I'll share one case to give an example. A woman in her late thirties was overdue on her pregnancy by several days. She had working with both a midwife and myself occasionally during her pregnancy, and her physician was pressuring her to break the waters by the next day. As a last attempt, she came with the midwife to my office to see if I could help. I felt her pulse and the gall bladder pulse was excessively wiry and replete. Emotionally she was very uncomfortable in her new and difficult marriage with a widower and his two sons, and did not feel comfortable in his home that had pictures of the ex-wife and her furniture. There was a lot of repressed anger. I needled three points, TB 5, GB 41 and 34 with moderate stimulus. The pulse relaxed, and the patient was immediately more comfortable. Within ten minutes, she asked me to remove the needles. She returned home with the midwife. Twenty minutes later I got the call: " it's a girl " . Have I been able to reliably reproduce those results? The answer is no. The variables I discussed above plus timing were on her (and my) side here. But I still feel that one has to take each case on its merits, its unique diagnosis, patterns and timing. Not rely on formulas and techniques only. On Feb 5, 2008, at 9:54 PM, bill_schoenbart wrote: > I have to disagree. I have found LI4 and SP6 to work every time in > inducing labor. That doesn't mean that it always will work, but I have > been fortunate in that regard. I have seen it work around 10 times > over the years. Sometimes it takes a few minutes, and sometimes it > takes a few days. The last time I induced a labor, 2 months ago, it > did take a few days. I had to add UB67 with strong stimulation and she > went into labor that night. The key is to be patient and regular. Once > you start, do a treatment every day. You can use electricity or you > can stimulate the needles manually a few times during the treatment. > > - Bill Schoenbart > > Chinese Medicine , " Christopher > Vedeler L.Ac. " <vedeler wrote: > > > > I've dealt with this issue both personally in the birth of my > daughters > > and with dozens of my patients. > > > > The most effective points are not the classic labor induction > points we > > learned in school. Frankly I've never seen them work... Ever. The > best > > points are UB-31, 32, 33 with STRONG electro-stim. Even with this > > success is hit and miss. The classic labor induction points don't > work > > in my experience. I've used LI-4 on pregnant woman from time to time > > and none of them aborted their children. > > > Chair, Department of Herbal Medicine Pacific College of Oriental Medicine San Diego, Ca. 92122 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 6, 2008 Report Share Posted February 6, 2008 I just gave birth to my healthy baby girl four months ago... she was born at 40 weeks (considered to be two weeks overdue). I was worried about the induction/cesarean issue, so I tried to induce my own labor by needling Li4 unilaterally (i'm right handed) and spleen six bilaterally, as well as UB 67. I did the treatment several times, but I had much better luck when I went to a local acupuncturist referred by my midwife, who was able to needle in addition, GB 21 unilaterally, the si liao points (UB 31-4) in the sacral area, and a point on a traeger point on my GB channel. strong manual stim on Li4 and sp6. I found that that night, i started having contractions in my sleep, and that my daughter was born the next day! you can also try an herbal formula including yu mi cao, a good herb for labor and post pregnancy support. here are some tips to minimize cesarean risk: labor at home until the contractions are 3-5 minutes apart and strong. the 24 hour clock starts ticking once you enter the hospital, if your water has broken, so you give yourself extra time by staying at home as long as possible. once the 24 hour mark hits, you will usually be given an automatic cesarean unless you are in " active " labor. also keep in mind that a pitocin drip is preferable to a cesarean, since pitocin naturally occurs in your body to stimulate your contractions anyway. hopefully you already have a great midwife or holistic MD that you have been working with who has informed you about these and other things and who will work with you when the time comes. if you haven't made a birth plan yet, make sure you get one together (it gives your doc/midwife an idea of your wishes in different scenarios) congrats! marie sepich LAc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 10, 2008 Report Share Posted February 10, 2008 In a message dated 06/02/2008 20:25:46 GMT Standard Time, shamanist1 writes: overdue As an acupuncturist and a trained midwife i feel the need to just add a note to the comment " if your water has broken,so give yourself extra time by staying at home as long as possible " . If the waters break and there is an absence of contractions,the head may not be engaged. The danger here is that once the waters have broken there is a risk of the cord coming down before the head. The head could then trap the cord as it descends thereby cutting off the blood supply to the baby. Regards. Val Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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