Guest guest Posted February 3, 2008 Report Share Posted February 3, 2008 Hi Z'ev, I've been reading much in recent years about the health benefits of eating grass-fed beef. What are your thoughts on this? <zrosenbe wrote: I think that the vegans among us need to stop being defensive against the dogma of 'eating meat for blood deficiency'. While I am not totally vegan (I've practiced macrobiotics for 38 years and do eat some fish), I think in the present ecological circumstances and modern lifestyle that meat eating can and should be kept to a minimum. For a great book on the relationship between meat eating and serious illnesses such as cancer, heart disease and other autoimmune diseases, see " The China Study " by T. Colin Campbell, based on studies comparing rural Chinese diets high in vegetables and low in animal foods to urban diets higher in refined foods and animal products. It makes quite a strong argument for modest meat eating. On Feb 1, 2008, at 6:27 PM, wrote: > i imagine there's more than a few of us vegans out here, more than > you'ld > realize. we just keep a low profile within the tcm community do to the > prejudice against our dietary priorities. > > i did get a post sent off list (so i won't quote the source without > permission) who said that in china, the deer are slaughtered for > venison, > and that collecting of the horns is like recycling a bi-product, > such as > gathering oyster shells or turtle shells, after the animals have > been killed > and eaten. > > kb > > On Feb 1, 2008 5:12 PM, Ariel Solomon wrote: > > > > > Hi Kath, > > > > I am surprised to hear that there is actually a vegan TCM > practitioner out > > there. I was vegan for 10+ years-- I went back to vegetarian a few > months > > ago. I still have a strong belief in animal rights though. > > > > I don't have any more information on Lu Jiao for you. If you get any > > though, I am interested. I have generally avoided the use of > animal products > > up to this point, but I imagine sometime in the future I may be in > a similar > > situation. > > > > Thanks, > > Ariel Solomon > > alumni > > CC: > Chinese Traditional Medicine > @ > > acukath > > Fri, 1 Feb 2008 10:55:32 -0500 > > harvesting lu jiao: animal rights issues? > > > > i've been investigating delayed growth in childhood. a couple of > posts > > have > > > > recommended lu jiao or lu jiao sheng which is specific for tx this > > > > disorder. as a vegan, i have avoided lu jiao as my understanding > of the > > > > harvesting process causes a great deal of pain and suffering to > the deer. > > > > the velvet is highly vascular, and my knowledge of the harvesting > > procedure > > > > involves a bloody process, painful and stressful to the animals. > > > > does anyone know something different about the harvesting > procedure of lu > > > > jiao? > > > > -- > > > > > > > > Oriental Medicine > > > > Experienced, Dedicated, Effective > > > > Flying Dragon Liniment: > > > > Effective pain relief for muscles & joints > > > > Formulated by Kath Bartlett, Traditional Chinese Herbalist > > > > Available at Asheville Center for , or web order at: > > > > https://www.kamwo.com/shop/product.php?productid=17442 & cat=0 & page=1 > > > > Asheville Center For > > > > 70 Woodfin Place, Suite West Wing Two > > > > Asheville, NC 28801 828.258.2777 > > > > kbartlett > %40AcupunctureAsheville.com> > > > > www.AcupunctureAsheville.com > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 3, 2008 Report Share Posted February 3, 2008 I am sure it is much better than the usual store bought meat. I don't have a vegan agenda, I know not everyone can eat that way. I just think that the 'developed' countries consume way too much of it, and that the environmental impact of it is endangering our survival. On Feb 3, 2008, at 7:29 AM, wrote: > Hi Z'ev, > > I've been reading much in recent years about the health benefits of > eating grass-fed beef. What are your thoughts on this? > > > > <zrosenbe wrote: I think that the vegans > among us need to stop being defensive against > the dogma of 'eating meat for blood deficiency'. While I am not > totally vegan (I've practiced macrobiotics for 38 years and do eat > some fish), I think in the present ecological circumstances and modern > lifestyle that meat eating can and should be kept to a minimum. > > For a great book on the relationship between meat eating and serious > illnesses such as cancer, heart disease and other autoimmune diseases, > see " The China Study " by T. Colin Campbell, based on studies comparing > rural Chinese diets high in vegetables and low in animal foods to > urban diets higher in refined foods and animal products. It makes > quite a strong argument for modest meat eating. > > > On Feb 1, 2008, at 6:27 PM, wrote: > > > i imagine there's more than a few of us vegans out here, more than > > you'ld > > realize. we just keep a low profile within the tcm community do to > the > > prejudice against our dietary priorities. > > > > i did get a post sent off list (so i won't quote the source without > > permission) who said that in china, the deer are slaughtered for > > venison, > > and that collecting of the horns is like recycling a bi-product, > > such as > > gathering oyster shells or turtle shells, after the animals have > > been killed > > and eaten. > > > > kb > > > > On Feb 1, 2008 5:12 PM, Ariel Solomon wrote: > > > > > > > > Hi Kath, > > > > > > I am surprised to hear that there is actually a vegan TCM > > practitioner out > > > there. I was vegan for 10+ years-- I went back to vegetarian a few > > months > > > ago. I still have a strong belief in animal rights though. > > > > > > I don't have any more information on Lu Jiao for you. If you get > any > > > though, I am interested. I have generally avoided the use of > > animal products > > > up to this point, but I imagine sometime in the future I may be in > > a similar > > > situation. > > > > > > Thanks, > > > Ariel Solomon > > > alumni > > > CC: > > Chinese Traditional Medicine > > @ > > > acukath > > > Fri, 1 Feb 2008 10:55:32 -0500 > > > harvesting lu jiao: animal rights issues? > > > > > > i've been investigating delayed growth in childhood. a couple of > > posts > > > have > > > > > > recommended lu jiao or lu jiao sheng which is specific for tx this > > > > > > disorder. as a vegan, i have avoided lu jiao as my understanding > > of the > > > > > > harvesting process causes a great deal of pain and suffering to > > the deer. > > > > > > the velvet is highly vascular, and my knowledge of the harvesting > > > procedure > > > > > > involves a bloody process, painful and stressful to the animals. > > > > > > does anyone know something different about the harvesting > > procedure of lu > > > > > > jiao? > > > > > > -- > > > > > > > > > > > > Oriental Medicine > > > > > > Experienced, Dedicated, Effective > > > > > > Flying Dragon Liniment: > > > > > > Effective pain relief for muscles & joints > > > > > > Formulated by Kath Bartlett, Traditional Chinese Herbalist > > > > > > Available at Asheville Center for , or web order > at: > > > > > > https://www.kamwo.com/shop/product.php? > productid=17442 & cat=0 & page=1 > > > > > > Asheville Center For > > > > > > 70 Woodfin Place, Suite West Wing Two > > > > > > Asheville, NC 28801 828.258.2777 > > > > > > kbartlett > > %40AcupunctureAsheville.com> > > > > > > www.AcupunctureAsheville.com > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 3, 2008 Report Share Posted February 3, 2008 It is interesting to note that according to the Kabbalistic tradition of Judaism, an ignoramous is forbidden to eat meat (meaning red meat) because the coarse, boorish qualities will affect this person and make more unrefined, more slow, more " bovine " . Yet one who eats with purpose so as to make eating a spiritual, rather than an animalistic activity, is permitted to eat meat, because as animals are more advanced in the evolutionary chain, they contains more sparks of holiness, and as a result has a greater potential to elevate and refine such a person. <zrosenbe wrote: I am sure it is much better than the usual store bought meat. I don't have a vegan agenda, I know not everyone can eat that way. I just think that the 'developed' countries consume way too much of it, and that the environmental impact of it is endangering our survival. On Feb 3, 2008, at 7:29 AM, wrote: > Hi Z'ev, > > I've been reading much in recent years about the health benefits of > eating grass-fed beef. What are your thoughts on this? > > > > <zrosenbe wrote: I think that the vegans > among us need to stop being defensive against > the dogma of 'eating meat for blood deficiency'. While I am not > totally vegan (I've practiced macrobiotics for 38 years and do eat > some fish), I think in the present ecological circumstances and modern > lifestyle that meat eating can and should be kept to a minimum. > > For a great book on the relationship between meat eating and serious > illnesses such as cancer, heart disease and other autoimmune diseases, > see " The China Study " by T. Colin Campbell, based on studies comparing > rural Chinese diets high in vegetables and low in animal foods to > urban diets higher in refined foods and animal products. It makes > quite a strong argument for modest meat eating. > > > On Feb 1, 2008, at 6:27 PM, wrote: > > > i imagine there's more than a few of us vegans out here, more than > > you'ld > > realize. we just keep a low profile within the tcm community do to > the > > prejudice against our dietary priorities. > > > > i did get a post sent off list (so i won't quote the source without > > permission) who said that in china, the deer are slaughtered for > > venison, > > and that collecting of the horns is like recycling a bi-product, > > such as > > gathering oyster shells or turtle shells, after the animals have > > been killed > > and eaten. > > > > kb > > > > On Feb 1, 2008 5:12 PM, Ariel Solomon wrote: > > > > > > > > Hi Kath, > > > > > > I am surprised to hear that there is actually a vegan TCM > > practitioner out > > > there. I was vegan for 10+ years-- I went back to vegetarian a few > > months > > > ago. I still have a strong belief in animal rights though. > > > > > > I don't have any more information on Lu Jiao for you. If you get > any > > > though, I am interested. I have generally avoided the use of > > animal products > > > up to this point, but I imagine sometime in the future I may be in > > a similar > > > situation. > > > > > > Thanks, > > > Ariel Solomon > > > alumni > > > CC: > > Chinese Traditional Medicine > > @ > > > acukath > > > Fri, 1 Feb 2008 10:55:32 -0500 > > > harvesting lu jiao: animal rights issues? > > > > > > i've been investigating delayed growth in childhood. a couple of > > posts > > > have > > > > > > recommended lu jiao or lu jiao sheng which is specific for tx this > > > > > > disorder. as a vegan, i have avoided lu jiao as my understanding > > of the > > > > > > harvesting process causes a great deal of pain and suffering to > > the deer. > > > > > > the velvet is highly vascular, and my knowledge of the harvesting > > > procedure > > > > > > involves a bloody process, painful and stressful to the animals. > > > > > > does anyone know something different about the harvesting > > procedure of lu > > > > > > jiao? > > > > > > -- > > > > > > > > > > > > Oriental Medicine > > > > > > Experienced, Dedicated, Effective > > > > > > Flying Dragon Liniment: > > > > > > Effective pain relief for muscles & joints > > > > > > Formulated by Kath Bartlett, Traditional Chinese Herbalist > > > > > > Available at Asheville Center for , or web order > at: > > > > > > https://www.kamwo.com/shop/product.php? > productid=17442 & cat=0 & page=1 > > > > > > Asheville Center For > > > > > > 70 Woodfin Place, Suite West Wing Two > > > > > > Asheville, NC 28801 828.258.2777 > > > > > > kbartlett > > %40AcupunctureAsheville.com> > > > > > > www.AcupunctureAsheville.com > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 3, 2008 Report Share Posted February 3, 2008 I agree with you on all countsl <zrosenbe wrote: I am sure it is much better than the usual store bought meat. I don't have a vegan agenda, I know not everyone can eat that way. I just think that the 'developed' countries consume way too much of it, and that the environmental impact of it is endangering our survival. On Feb 3, 2008, at 7:29 AM, wrote: > Hi Z'ev, > > I've been reading much in recent years about the health benefits of > eating grass-fed beef. What are your thoughts on this? > > > > wrote: I think that the vegans > among us need to stop being defensive against > the dogma of 'eating meat for blood deficiency'. While I am not > totally vegan (I've practiced macrobiotics for 38 years and do eat > some fish), I think in the present ecological circumstances and modern > lifestyle that meat eating can and should be kept to a minimum. > > For a great book on the relationship between meat eating and serious > illnesses such as cancer, heart disease and other autoimmune diseases, > see " The China Study " by T. Colin Campbell, based on studies comparing > rural Chinese diets high in vegetables and low in animal foods to > urban diets higher in refined foods and animal products. It makes > quite a strong argument for modest meat eating. > > > On Feb 1, 2008, at 6:27 PM, wrote: > > > i imagine there's more than a few of us vegans out here, more than > > you'ld > > realize. we just keep a low profile within the tcm community do to > the > > prejudice against our dietary priorities. > > > > i did get a post sent off list (so i won't quote the source without > > permission) who said that in china, the deer are slaughtered for > > venison, > > and that collecting of the horns is like recycling a bi-product, > > such as > > gathering oyster shells or turtle shells, after the animals have > > been killed > > and eaten. > > > > kb > > > > On Feb 1, 2008 5:12 PM, Ariel Solomon wrote: > > > > > > > > Hi Kath, > > > > > > I am surprised to hear that there is actually a vegan TCM > > practitioner out > > > there. I was vegan for 10+ years-- I went back to vegetarian a few > > months > > > ago. I still have a strong belief in animal rights though. > > > > > > I don't have any more information on Lu Jiao for you. If you get > any > > > though, I am interested. I have generally avoided the use of > > animal products > > > up to this point, but I imagine sometime in the future I may be in > > a similar > > > situation. > > > > > > Thanks, > > > Ariel Solomon > > > alumni > > > CC: > > Chinese Traditional Medicine > > @ > > > acukath > > > Fri, 1 Feb 2008 10:55:32 -0500 > > > harvesting lu jiao: animal rights issues? > > > > > > i've been investigating delayed growth in childhood. a couple of > > posts > > > have > > > > > > recommended lu jiao or lu jiao sheng which is specific for tx this > > > > > > disorder. as a vegan, i have avoided lu jiao as my understanding > > of the > > > > > > harvesting process causes a great deal of pain and suffering to > > the deer. > > > > > > the velvet is highly vascular, and my knowledge of the harvesting > > > procedure > > > > > > involves a bloody process, painful and stressful to the animals. > > > > > > does anyone know something different about the harvesting > > procedure of lu > > > > > > jiao? > > > > > > -- > > > > > > > > > > > > Oriental Medicine > > > > > > Experienced, Dedicated, Effective > > > > > > Flying Dragon Liniment: > > > > > > Effective pain relief for muscles & joints > > > > > > Formulated by Kath Bartlett, Traditional Chinese Herbalist > > > > > > Available at Asheville Center for , or web order > at: > > > > > > https://www.kamwo.com/shop/product.php? > productid=17442 & cat=0 & page=1 > > > > > > Asheville Center For > > > > > > 70 Woodfin Place, Suite West Wing Two > > > > > > Asheville, NC 28801 828.258.2777 > > > > > > kbartlett > > %40AcupunctureAsheville.com> > > > > > > www.AcupunctureAsheville.com > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 4, 2008 Report Share Posted February 4, 2008 Yes, I think the health scare of eating meat comes from the fact that too many Americans eat too much meat. Also, the source is VERY important. If your argument is that we evolved to eat meat, we evolved to eat a natural grass fed animal. The amount of CORN, antibiotic, hormone fed animals is not what we were meant to eat. This parallels the argument of drinking milk. Many health problems seem to stem from milk drinking so many people made arguments that we were not meant to drink the milk of other animals. However, milk is very healing in Ayurveda, etc. The milk people drank for health was not pasteurized, not homogenized and the cows did not eat corn, antibiotics or hormones (basically, organic raw milk is good). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 4, 2008 Report Share Posted February 4, 2008 there was a pretty interesting discussion about meat eating and ethics on NPR news the other day. i can certainly understand veganism from a philosophical perspective, and although i don't agree with it for health reasons, i guess i have to respect a person's decisions. veganism (as opposed to vegetarianism) drains your body of vital nutrients and is a very unnatural way of eating, and is really only feasible if you have lots of extra income to spend on supplements every month, including dietary yeast, liquid aminos, and others. don't forget that essential nutrients, such as B12 are found ONLY in meat/animal products. (PETA never mentions anything about this on their website of course). in addition, meat contains the complete amino acid balance that our body thrives on, while vegetarian sources are incomplete, and must be combined in order for them to be properly balanced. also, heme iron, found in meat, is more readily absorbed by the body than vegetarian sources of iron (probably one of the reasons, meat is warming, and useful as a blood tonic). i believe that although americans consume way too much meat, that most of the reason for the health repercussions involving eating meat is due to the hormones, antibiotics, and high fat content of commercially produced meat. grass is the natural diet for a cow, and a grass fed cow does not need to be fed antibiotics, as opposed to a corn fed cow. it is also more humane for the cow, since they are pastured, versus kept in pens jammed with lots of other cows. the same applies to free range chickens and other animals. grass fed are leaner than other meats, and so need to be cooked with added fat, such as olive oil, in order to maintain moisture and tenderness. also, check out this interesting book called " eat right for your type.' I am a type O, or protein type metabolism. i do not digest plant proteins very efficeintly, and find that i get very weak, start losing hair, and that my immunity goes down when i go a long time without eating meat. i also find that i feel cold and that my body doesn't regulate it's temperature very well. i am just listening to my body when i eat meat, and eating meat is natural for me. i do think about the ethics of eating meat, and i try to make sure that i never waste any meat, and that i get more humane sources of meat, including free range and grass fed whenever it is possible. i always buy organic milk and butter. i found that my partner's dog is also more content and seems to have better vitality when he gets fed meat as well. it is important to respect life and have compassion for animals, but what about the ethics of respecting our own biologies? should we sacrifice our own health/well being for the sake of another creature? what about the natural hierarchy of carnivores/herbivores in nature? is a tiger evil because it subsists almost entirely off of meat? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 4, 2008 Report Share Posted February 4, 2008 I agree with you wholly in that our meat industry is a cause of health, not only scare, but also its actual deterioration, and that we have evolved to eat meat that has come from the environment. It is also that we have evolved eating plants that came from our environment. The problem that food is fomenting in this country, and other countries as the try to be more like us, is not just caused by meat. It is the entire industrialized food industry (not to mention a pharmaceutical industry that has no incentive to cure disease but just keep everyone on the meds, but adding that discussion would just make it to difficult to write). But there is a problem when we say that we have evolved to eat animal and vegetal matter that has come from nature. Yes, this is true, but at what time that the first hunter gatherer, who sat down with a wild persimmon and tossed the seeds in one pile and saw a plant growing there later, and put two and two together, becoming the first farmer, stop evolving? People always say that plastic is not natural. But, to take a wider view, we are creatures of nature, trapped by the laws of nature, and it is in our nature to modify and manipulate our environment. When thought of in this perspective, plastic becomes natural. The real need is not to lose sight that we are creatures of nature and trapped by the laws of nature, and, as such, must make choices that resonate with those laws, rather than ones that are out of tune. Douglas Knapp Doctoral Fellow, L.Ac. Full Moon Acupuncture 1600 York Avenue New York, NY 10028 212-734-1459 Brian Harasha <bharasha Chinese Medicine Monday, February 4, 2008 10:04:37 AM Re: eating meat Yes, I think the health scare of eating meat comes from the fact that too many Americans eat too much meat. Also, the source is VERY important. If your argument is that we evolved to eat meat, we evolved to eat a natural grass fed animal. The amount of CORN, antibiotic, hormone fed animals is not what we were meant to eat. This parallels the argument of drinking milk. Many health problems seem to stem from milk drinking so many people made arguments that we were not meant to drink the milk of other animals. However, milk is very healing in Ayurveda, etc. The milk people drank for health was not pasteurized, not homogenized and the cows did not eat corn, antibiotics or hormones (basically, organic raw milk is good). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 4, 2008 Report Share Posted February 4, 2008 grass is the natural diet for a cow, and a grass fed cow does not need to be fed antibiotics, as opposed to a corn fed cow. Shamanist1, Nine times the amount of antibiotics are sold to the meat industry than that sold to people " to fight infections " . I think that there is much more going on than the cow, or chicken, goat, duck, etc, needing the antibiotic because of the diet. It is a pure money maker for the pharmaceutical manufacturers. Douglas Knapp Doctoral Fellow, L.Ac. Full Moon Acupuncture 1600 York Avenue New York, NY 10028 212-734-1459 ______________________________\ ____ Never miss a thing. Make your home page. http://www./r/hs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 5, 2008 Report Share Posted February 5, 2008 Hey Z'ev, You and I have both mentioned T. Colin Campbell, and I feel responsible for the benefits I got from studying with him. So I thought I'd mention his book: The China Study. He and his son put the book together a few years ago and published it. My introduction to this material was directly from T. Colin Campbell back in the early 1990s when I was taught nutrition and associated with Professor Campbell on some projects. See his book at: http://www.thechinastudy.com/about.html This is a vast project that was funded by Cornell University and Oxford University. The original research was late 1980s-early 1990s, with early 19990s publications in the scientific journals. Respectfully, Emmanuel Segmen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 5, 2008 Report Share Posted February 5, 2008 Emmanuel, I also highly recommend this book. I think that if the general public followed his dietary recommendations, along with the ideas of Michael Pollen's " In Defense of Food " , we could save not only the environment, but billions of dollars of treatments against disease. Preventative medicine is still the best medicine. On Feb 4, 2008, at 4:02 PM, Emmanuel Segmen wrote: > Hey Z'ev, > > You and I have both mentioned T. Colin Campbell, and I feel > responsible for the benefits I got from studying with him. So I > thought I'd mention his book: The China Study. He and his son put > the book together a few years ago and published it. My introduction > to this material was directly from T. Colin Campbell back in the > early 1990s when I was taught nutrition and associated with > Professor Campbell on some projects. See his book at: > http://www.thechinastudy.com/about.html This is a vast project that > was funded by Cornell University and Oxford University. The original > research was late 1980s-early 1990s, with early 19990s publications > in the scientific journals. > > Respectfully, > > Emmanuel Segmen > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 5, 2008 Report Share Posted February 5, 2008 Emmanuel, This is why I think the emphasis by modern Chinese medical practitioners on meat is greatly overstated. While a vegan diet can be flawed, or not appropriate for everyone, most Americans eat way too much animal protein in their diets. On Feb 5, 2008, at 2:57 PM, Emmanuel Segmen wrote: > Z'ev, > > I should correct a typo. In the early 1990s I taught (not was > taught) the upper division course in nutrition at City College of > San Francisco. My formal training in clinical nutrition was in > graduate training at the Univ. of Texas Health Science Center at San > Antonio in the mid-1980s. > > T. Colin Campbell (in the early 1990s) did not have views that > differed much from my own professors in nutrition. From the 1960s > onward, it was generally viewed that people who ate from their > gardens had the healthiest diets. In America, that meant poor share- > croppers who had no choice but to eat from their gardens. > > Michael Pollan, in his most recent book, demystifies our American > preoccupation with protein as a some sort of iconic or magical > dietary requirement. It is ironically what stands in the way of our > recently gained strides in longevity. So I've silently rolled my > eyes over the years when I've heard people ask, " Where are you > getting your protein? " My occasional response was, " How are you > managing to avoid it? " > > Respectfully, > Emmanuel Segmen > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 6, 2008 Report Share Posted February 6, 2008 " Where are you getting your protein? " My occasional response was, " How are you managing to avoid it? " Emanuel, Beautiful. Douglas Knapp Doctoral Fellow, L.Ac. Full Moon Acupuncture 1600 York Avenue New York, NY 10028 212-734-1459 ______________________________\ ____ Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile./;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 6, 2008 Report Share Posted February 6, 2008 zev: it is refreshing to hear someone from the TCM community supporting rather than the usual bashing of the vegan lifestyle. we live this lifestyle for ethical and altruistic motives, putting the health of the planet and reducing suffering of those who cannot defend themselves as a top priority. with appreciation, kath On Feb 3, 2008 10:29 AM, < wrote: > Hi Z'ev, > > I've been reading much in recent years about the health benefits of eating > grass-fed beef. What are your thoughts on this? > > > > <zrosenbe <zrosenbe%40san.rr.com>> wrote: I > think that the vegans among us need to stop being defensive against > the dogma of 'eating meat for blood deficiency'. While I am not > totally vegan (I've practiced macrobiotics for 38 years and do eat > some fish), I think in the present ecological circumstances and modern > lifestyle that meat eating can and should be kept to a minimum. > > For a great book on the relationship between meat eating and serious > illnesses such as cancer, heart disease and other autoimmune diseases, > see " The China Study " by T. Colin Campbell, based on studies comparing > rural Chinese diets high in vegetables and low in animal foods to > urban diets higher in refined foods and animal products. It makes > quite a strong argument for modest meat eating. > > > On Feb 1, 2008, at 6:27 PM, wrote: > > > i imagine there's more than a few of us vegans out here, more than > > you'ld > > realize. we just keep a low profile within the tcm community do to the > > prejudice against our dietary priorities. > > > > i did get a post sent off list (so i won't quote the source without > > permission) who said that in china, the deer are slaughtered for > > venison, > > and that collecting of the horns is like recycling a bi-product, > > such as > > gathering oyster shells or turtle shells, after the animals have > > been killed > > and eaten. > > > > kb > > > > On Feb 1, 2008 5:12 PM, Ariel Solomon wrote: > > > > > > > > Hi Kath, > > > > > > I am surprised to hear that there is actually a vegan TCM > > practitioner out > > > there. I was vegan for 10+ years-- I went back to vegetarian a few > > months > > > ago. I still have a strong belief in animal rights though. > > > > > > I don't have any more information on Lu Jiao for you. If you get any > > > though, I am interested. I have generally avoided the use of > > animal products > > > up to this point, but I imagine sometime in the future I may be in > > a similar > > > situation. > > > > > > Thanks, > > > Ariel Solomon > > > alumni <alumni%40pacificcollege.edu> > > > CC: > > Chinese Traditional Medicine > > @ > > > acukath <acukath%40gmail.com> > > > Fri, 1 Feb 2008 10:55:32 -0500 > > > harvesting lu jiao: animal rights issues? > > > > > > i've been investigating delayed growth in childhood. a couple of > > posts > > > have > > > > > > recommended lu jiao or lu jiao sheng which is specific for tx this > > > > > > disorder. as a vegan, i have avoided lu jiao as my understanding > > of the > > > > > > harvesting process causes a great deal of pain and suffering to > > the deer. > > > > > > the velvet is highly vascular, and my knowledge of the harvesting > > > procedure > > > > > > involves a bloody process, painful and stressful to the animals. > > > > > > does anyone know something different about the harvesting > > procedure of lu > > > > > > jiao? > > > > > > -- > > > > > > > > > > > > Oriental Medicine > > > > > > Experienced, Dedicated, Effective > > > > > > Flying Dragon Liniment: > > > > > > Effective pain relief for muscles & joints > > > > > > Formulated by Kath Bartlett, Traditional Chinese Herbalist > > > > > > Available at Asheville Center for , or web order at: > > > > > > https://www.kamwo.com/shop/product.php?productid=17442 & cat=0 & page=1 > > > > > > Asheville Center For > > > > > > 70 Woodfin Place, Suite West Wing Two > > > > > > Asheville, NC 28801 828.258.2777 > > > > > > kbartlett<kbartlett%40AcupunctureAsheville.com> > > %40AcupunctureAsheville.com> > > > > > > www.AcupunctureAsheville.com <http://www.acupunctureasheville.com/> > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 6, 2008 Report Share Posted February 6, 2008 i'm not familiar with the books you suggest, but another original book in this genera is " diet for a small planet " . that one has heavily influenced my dietary choices. kath On Feb 5, 2008 12:18 AM, <zrosenbe wrote: > Emmanuel, > I also highly recommend this book. I think that if the general > public followed his dietary recommendations, along with the ideas of > Michael Pollen's " In Defense of Food " , we could save not only the > environment, but billions of dollars of treatments against disease. > Preventative medicine is still the best medicine. > > > On Feb 4, 2008, at 4:02 PM, Emmanuel Segmen wrote: > > > Hey Z'ev, > > > > You and I have both mentioned T. Colin Campbell, and I feel > > responsible for the benefits I got from studying with him. So I > > thought I'd mention his book: The China Study. He and his son put > > the book together a few years ago and published it. My introduction > > to this material was directly from T. Colin Campbell back in the > > early 1990s when I was taught nutrition and associated with > > Professor Campbell on some projects. See his book at: > > http://www.thechinastudy.com/about.html This is a vast project that > > was funded by Cornell University and Oxford University. The original > > research was late 1980s-early 1990s, with early 19990s publications > > in the scientific journals. > > > > Respectfully, > > > > Emmanuel Segmen > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 6, 2008 Report Share Posted February 6, 2008 Kath, Check them out, I think you'll enjoy them. They update the ideas in " Diet for a Small Planet " , certainly a seminal text in the genre. On Feb 5, 2008, at 8:59 PM, wrote: > i'm not familiar with the books you suggest, but another original > book in > this genera is " diet for a small planet " . that one has heavily > influenced > my dietary choices. > > kath Chair, Department of Herbal Medicine Pacific College of Oriental Medicine San Diego, Ca. 92122 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 6, 2008 Report Share Posted February 6, 2008 Corn feed is a money-maker all right. If this already came up, sorry for being redundant. Corn fattens cows faster with higher fat content in the meat leading to richer flavor than grass feeding. So, meat from grass fed cows is also lower fat than meat from corn fed cows. [Even if u don't believe they evolved ] Over crowding in feed lots leads to social stress contributing to illness which also provokes the need for more antbx. It certainly tastes better. Lynn --- stephen woodley <learntcm wrote: > grass is the natural diet for a cow, and a grass fed > cow does not need to be fed antibiotics, as opposed to a corn fed cow. > Shamanist1, > It is a pure money maker for the pharmaceutical > manufacturers. > Douglas Knapp > > Both of these statements probably carry a good piece > of the truth...and both are rooted in the absurd population densities at the feed-lots where most beef is raised. Add to this that, as these poor animals are not allowed to roam, they wallow in their own filth. > Thus the need to inoculate and irradiate and who knows what else. > > If it IS all about making money, we might support > the efforts of organic ranchers by recommending and purchasing meat from those who raise livestock as they evolved. > > www.localharvest.org/store/meats.jsp > > better for our patients, families, selves, > environment.... > tastes better too... > > Stephen Woodley LAc ~ Doing Better Than I Deserve ~ Pain is Normal - Be Weird! Lynn Detamore, MS, L.Ac., Dipl.Ac. Licensed and Board Certified Acupuncturist PO Box 14, Sheridan, OR 97378 503.474.8876 lynndetamore ______________________________\ ____ Never miss a thing. Make your home page. http://www./r/hs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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