Guest guest Posted February 2, 2008 Report Share Posted February 2, 2008 There is another Shang Han Lun book in English that might be available. Â I bought a copy about 3 years ago, but I've heard it is difficult to get now. Â It is called " Treatise on Febrile Diseases Caused By Cold with 500 Cases " by Zhang Zhongjing, compiled and translated by Luo Xiwen, PhD, New World Press, Bejing, 1993. In addition to cases, both ancient and modern, it also has acupuncture prescriptions and notes on the text. Â In a SHL class I audited last fall (PCOM-NY) this text was used side by side with the newer Mitchell/Wiseman/Ye text. --RoseAnne fuentes120 <fuentes120 Chinese Medicine Sat, 2 Feb 2008 6:02 am Re: 6 Levels Hi John Unfortunately there is not much in the way of different translations or commentaries on the Shang han lun in English, but if you are able to go thru the entire book by Mitchell, you will learn many things within their context and the commentaries alone are great explanations not found any where in English, and if your having difficulties understanding some of the terms then also you should maybe get a copy of the practical dictionary of Chinese medicine by Wiseman and Ye. It will definitely be the best investment in your understanding of Chinese medicine besides learning Chinese. Good luck Gabe Fuentes In Chinese Medicine , " " <johnkokko wrote: > > Are there any other good books or resources in English to understand the > Shang Han Lun, > other than the one translated by Mitchell, Wiseman and Ye? > Looking for one which organizes the material and makes it easy to > understand. > > Thanks. > > J.Kokko > > > > On Feb 1, 2008 3:55 PM, <zrosenbe wrote: > > > Yangchu, > > I just wanted to point out that the BHI homeopathic people > > developed their 'six stage' pathogens theory independently many years > > ago. I have a book called " Homeotoxicology " , written decades ago by > > the BHI founder Dr. Reckeweg, where he delineates six stages of > > toxicity in disease states. He knew nothing about Chinese medicine, > > which makes it even more interesting. Miki adapted their approach to > > his own mastery of Shang Han Lun and started using this system with > > his clients. Miki, I should point out however, is a medical polymath > > who has as wide a range of knowledge of different medical systems as > > anyone I've encountered. However, he is grounded in deep scholarship > > of Chinese and Japanese medicine, with a specialty in Shang Han Lun. > > > > > > > > On Feb 1, 2008, at 3:41 PM, Yangchu Higgins wrote: > > > > > Miki Shima is someone who's taken interest in the Six > > > stages (channels, ahem) through some novel > > > applications of homeopathics. He has presented some > > > of his own findings regarding the 6 stages and > > > " fu-xie " (lurking " crouching " pathogen). The company > > > Heel has based their whole detox approach on the 6 > > > stages. They even combine homeopathic prescriptions > > > and use some Chinese herbs. > > > > > > Chair, Department of Herbal Medicine > > Pacific College of Oriental Medicine > > San Diego, Ca. 92122 > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 2, 2008 Report Share Posted February 2, 2008 Thanks RoseAnne, Yes. This is a great book to use; the commentaries and associated case studies are useful; the translations sometimes seems to be lacking in relation to the Mitchell et al. book. Also, it could be more organized. Definitely interesting to see how many ways gui zhi tang can be used in practice... Maybe it's just going to take a lifetime of contemplation and practice to fundamentally grasp the old master's system... No shortcuts? Tanstaafl. " There aint no such thing as a free lunch " . Only thing I remember from my freshman sociology class. Thanks, Kokko On Feb 2, 2008 5:33 AM, <ra6151 wrote: > There is another Shang Han Lun book in English that might be available. > I bought a copy about 3 years ago, but I've heard it is difficult to get > now. It is called " Treatise on Febrile Diseases Caused By Cold with 500 > Cases " by Zhang Zhongjing, compiled and translated by Luo Xiwen, PhD, New > World Press, Bejing, 1993. In addition to cases, both ancient and modern, it > also has acupuncture prescriptions and notes on the text. In a SHL class I > audited last fall (PCOM-NY) this text was used side by side with the newer > Mitchell/Wiseman/Ye text. > > --RoseAnne > > > fuentes120 <fuentes120 <fuentes120%40>> > To: Chinese Medicine <Chinese Medicine%40yaho\ ogroups.com> > Sat, 2 Feb 2008 6:02 am > Re: 6 Levels > > Hi John > Unfortunately there is not much in the way of different translations > or commentaries on the Shang han lun in English, but if you are able > to go thru the entire book by Mitchell, you will learn many things > within their context and the commentaries alone are great > explanations not found any where in English, and if your having > difficulties understanding some of the terms then also you should > maybe get a copy of the practical dictionary of Chinese medicine by > Wiseman and Ye. It will definitely be the best investment in your > understanding of Chinese medicine besides learning Chinese. > Good luck > Gabe Fuentes > > In Chinese Medicine <Chinese Medicine%40yaho\ ogroups.com>, > " " > <johnkokko wrote: > > > > Are there any other good books or resources in English to > understand the > > Shang Han Lun, > > other than the one translated by Mitchell, Wiseman and Ye? > > Looking for one which organizes the material and makes it easy to > > understand. > > > > Thanks. > > > > J.Kokko > > > > > > > > On Feb 1, 2008 3:55 PM, <zrosenbe wrote: > > > > > Yangchu, > > > I just wanted to point out that the BHI homeopathic people > > > developed their 'six stage' pathogens theory independently many > years > > > ago. I have a book called " Homeotoxicology " , written decades ago > by > > > the BHI founder Dr. Reckeweg, where he delineates six stages of > > > toxicity in disease states. He knew nothing about Chinese > medicine, > > > which makes it even more interesting. Miki adapted their > approach to > > > his own mastery of Shang Han Lun and started using this system > with > > > his clients. Miki, I should point out however, is a medical > polymath > > > who has as wide a range of knowledge of different medical > systems as > > > anyone I've encountered. However, he is grounded in deep > scholarship > > > of Chinese and Japanese medicine, with a specialty in Shang Han > Lun. > > > > > > > > > > > > On Feb 1, 2008, at 3:41 PM, Yangchu Higgins wrote: > > > > > > > Miki Shima is someone who's taken interest in the Six > > > > stages (channels, ahem) through some novel > > > > applications of homeopathics. He has presented some > > > > of his own findings regarding the 6 stages and > > > > " fu-xie " (lurking " crouching " pathogen). The company > > > > Heel has based their whole detox approach on the 6 > > > > stages. They even combine homeopathic prescriptions > > > > and use some Chinese herbs. > > > > > > > > > Chair, Department of Herbal Medicine > > > Pacific College of Oriental Medicine > > > San Diego, Ca. 92122 > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 2, 2008 Report Share Posted February 2, 2008 I see there is also a book in the Red Wing catalogue, " Clinical Applications of Shang Han Lun Formulae " by Rui-chun Chen. Â I don't personally know anything about the book, just saw it in the catalogue. Â Maybe someone else has explored the book? --RoseAnne <johnkokko Chinese Medicine Sat, 2 Feb 2008 10:57 am Re: Shang Han Lun books Thanks RoseAnne, Yes. This is a great book to use; the commentaries and associated case studies are useful; the translations sometimes seems to be lacking in relation to the Mitchell et al. book. Also, it could be more organized. Definitely interesting to see how many ways gui zhi tang can be used in practice... Maybe it's just going to take a lifetime of contemplation and practice to fundamentally grasp the old master's system... No shortcuts? Tanstaafl. " There aint no such thing as a free lunch " . Only thing I remember from my freshman sociology class. Thanks, Kokko On Feb 2, 2008 5:33 AM, <ra6151 wrote: > There is another Shang Han Lun book in English that might be available. > I bought a copy about 3 years ago, but I've heard it is difficult to get > now. It is called " Treatise on Febrile Diseases Caused By Cold with 500 > Cases " by Zhang Zhongjing, compiled and translated by Luo Xiwen, PhD, New > World Press, Bejing, 1993. In addition to cases, both ancient and modern, it > also has acupuncture prescriptions and notes on the text. In a SHL class I > audited last fall (PCOM-NY) this text was used side by side with the newer > Mitchell/Wiseman/Ye text. > > --RoseAnne > > > fuentes120 <fuentes120 <fuentes120%40>> > To: Chinese Medicine <Chinese Medicine%40yaho\ ogroups.com> > Sat, 2 Feb 2008 6:02 am > Re: 6 Levels > > Hi John > Unfortunately there is not much in the way of different translations > or commentaries on the Shang han lun in English, but if you are able > to go thru the entire book by Mitchell, you will learn many things > within their context and the commentaries alone are great > explanations not found any where in English, and if your having > difficulties understanding some of the terms then also you should > maybe get a copy of the practical dictionary of Chinese medicine by > Wiseman and Ye. It will definitely be the best investment in your > understanding of Chinese medicine besides learning Chinese. > Good luck > Gabe Fuentes > > In Chinese Medicine <Chinese Medicine%40yaho\ ogroups.com>, > " " > <johnkokko wrote: > > > > Are there any other good books or resources in English to > understand the > > Shang Han Lun, > > other than the one translated by Mitchell, Wiseman and Ye? > > Looking for one which organizes the material and makes it easy to > > understand. > > > > Thanks. > > > > J.Kokko > > > > > > > > On Feb 1, 2008 3:55 PM, <zrosenbe wrote: > > > > > Yangchu, > > > I just wanted to point out that the BHI homeopathic people > > > developed their 'six stage' pathogens theory independently many > years > > > ago. I have a book called " Homeotoxicology " , written decades ago > by > > > the BHI founder Dr. Reckeweg, where he delineates six stages of > > > toxicity in disease states. He knew nothing about Chinese > medicine, > > > which makes it even more interesting. Miki adapted their > approach to > > > his own mastery of Shang Han Lun and started using this system > with > > > his clients. Miki, I should point out however, is a medical > polymath > > > who has as wide a range of knowledge of different medical > systems as > > > anyone I've encountered. However, he is grounded in deep > scholarship > > > of Chinese and Japanese medicine, with a specialty in Shang Han > Lun. > > > > > > > > > > > > On Feb 1, 2008, at 3:41 PM, Yangchu Higgins wrote: > > > > > > > Miki Shima is someone who's taken interest in the Six > > > > stages (channels, ahem) through some novel > > > > applications of homeopathics. He has presented some > > > > of his own findings regarding the 6 stages and > > > > " fu-xie " (lurking " crouching " pathogen). The company > > > > Heel has based their whole detox approach on the 6 > > > > stages. They even combine homeopathic prescriptions > > > > and use some Chinese herbs. > > > > > > > > > Chair, Department of Herbal Medicine > > > Pacific College of Oriental Medicine > > > San Diego, Ca. 92122 > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 3, 2008 Report Share Posted February 3, 2008 I bought this book when it first came out, and in my opinion it is poorly translated to the point of being basically useless. The case histories may be useful, however. I teach a Shang Han Lun class at PCOM San Diego, so I've checked out everything in English, and nothing matches the Mitchell/Wiseman/Ye text. I've seen some sections from a translation that Dan Bensky has been working on for years, it seems pretty good, but I don't know when it will come out. A translation of the Jin gui yao lue/Prescriptions from the Golden Coffer will be out later this year from Paradigm Press. On Feb 2, 2008, at 5:33 AM, ra6151 wrote: > There is another Shang Han Lun book in English that might be > available. I bought a copy about 3 years ago, but I've heard it is > difficult to get now. It is called " Treatise on Febrile Diseases > Caused By Cold with 500 Cases " by Zhang Zhongjing, compiled and > translated by Luo Xiwen, PhD, New World Press, Bejing, 1993. In > addition to cases, both ancient and modern, it also has acupuncture > prescriptions and notes on the text. In a SHL class I audited last > fall (PCOM-NY) this text was used side by side with the newer > Mitchell/Wiseman/Ye text. > > --RoseAnne > > > fuentes120 <fuentes120 > Chinese Medicine > Sat, 2 Feb 2008 6:02 am > Re: 6 Levels > > Hi John > Unfortunately there is not much in the way of different translations > or commentaries on the Shang han lun in English, but if you are able > to go thru the entire book by Mitchell, you will learn many things > within their context and the commentaries alone are great > explanations not found any where in English, and if your having > difficulties understanding some of the terms then also you should > maybe get a copy of the practical dictionary of Chinese medicine by > Wiseman and Ye. It will definitely be the best investment in your > understanding of Chinese medicine besides learning Chinese. > Good luck > Gabe Fuentes > > In Chinese Medicine , " " > <johnkokko wrote: > > > > Are there any other good books or resources in English to > understand the > > Shang Han Lun, > > other than the one translated by Mitchell, Wiseman and Ye? > > Looking for one which organizes the material and makes it easy to > > understand. > > > > Thanks. > > > > J.Kokko > > > > > > > > On Feb 1, 2008 3:55 PM, <zrosenbe wrote: > > > > > Yangchu, > > > I just wanted to point out that the BHI homeopathic people > > > developed their 'six stage' pathogens theory independently many > years > > > ago. I have a book called " Homeotoxicology " , written decades ago > by > > > the BHI founder Dr. Reckeweg, where he delineates six stages of > > > toxicity in disease states. He knew nothing about Chinese > medicine, > > > which makes it even more interesting. Miki adapted their > approach to > > > his own mastery of Shang Han Lun and started using this system > with > > > his clients. Miki, I should point out however, is a medical > polymath > > > who has as wide a range of knowledge of different medical > systems as > > > anyone I've encountered. However, he is grounded in deep > scholarship > > > of Chinese and Japanese medicine, with a specialty in Shang Han > Lun. > > > > > > > > > > > > On Feb 1, 2008, at 3:41 PM, Yangchu Higgins wrote: > > > > > > > Miki Shima is someone who's taken interest in the Six > > > > stages (channels, ahem) through some novel > > > > applications of homeopathics. He has presented some > > > > of his own findings regarding the 6 stages and > > > > " fu-xie " (lurking " crouching " pathogen). The company > > > > Heel has based their whole detox approach on the 6 > > > > stages. They even combine homeopathic prescriptions > > > > and use some Chinese herbs. > > > > > > > > > Chair, Department of Herbal Medicine > > > Pacific College of Oriental Medicine > > > San Diego, Ca. 92122 > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 3, 2008 Report Share Posted February 3, 2008 I have one of his books in Chinese, it is pretty good. -Jason _____ Chinese Medicine Chinese Medicine On Behalf Of ra6151 Saturday, February 02, 2008 10:53 AM Chinese Medicine Re: Shang Han Lun books I see there is also a book in the Red Wing catalogue, " Clinical Applications of Shang Han Lun Formulae " by Rui-chun Chen. I don't personally know anything about the book, just saw it in the catalogue. Maybe someone else has explored the book? --RoseAnne <johnkokko (AT) gmail (DOT) <johnkokko%40gmail.com> com> Traditional_ <Chinese Medicine%40> Chinese_Medicine Sat, 2 Feb 2008 10:57 am Re: Shang Han Lun books Thanks RoseAnne, Yes. This is a great book to use; the commentaries and associated case studies are useful; the translations sometimes seems to be lacking in relation to the Mitchell et al. book. Also, it could be more organized. Definitely interesting to see how many ways gui zhi tang can be used in practice... Maybe it's just going to take a lifetime of contemplation and practice to fundamentally grasp the old master's system... No shortcuts? Tanstaafl. " There aint no such thing as a free lunch " . Only thing I remember from my freshman sociology class. Thanks, Kokko On Feb 2, 2008 5:33 AM, <ra6151 <ra6151%40aol.com> > wrote: > There is another Shang Han Lun book in English that might be available. > I bought a copy about 3 years ago, but I've heard it is difficult to get > now. It is called " Treatise on Febrile Diseases Caused By Cold with 500 > Cases " by Zhang Zhongjing, compiled and translated by Luo Xiwen, PhD, New > World Press, Bejing, 1993. In addition to cases, both ancient and modern, it > also has acupuncture prescriptions and notes on the text. In a SHL class I > audited last fall (PCOM-NY) this text was used side by side with the newer > Mitchell/Wiseman/Ye text. > > --RoseAnne > > > fuentes120 <fuentes120 (AT) (DOT) <fuentes120%40> com <fuentes120%40>> > Traditional_ <Chinese Medicine%40> Chinese_Medicine <Chinese Medicine%40. com> > Sat, 2 Feb 2008 6:02 am > Re: 6 Levels > > Hi John > Unfortunately there is not much in the way of different translations > or commentaries on the Shang han lun in English, but if you are able > to go thru the entire book by Mitchell, you will learn many things > within their context and the commentaries alone are great > explanations not found any where in English, and if your having > difficulties understanding some of the terms then also you should > maybe get a copy of the practical dictionary of Chinese medicine by > Wiseman and Ye. It will definitely be the best investment in your > understanding of Chinese medicine besides learning Chinese. > Good luck > Gabe Fuentes > > In Traditional_ <Chinese Medicine%40> Chinese_Medicine <Chinese Medicine%40. com>, > " " > <johnkokko wrote: > > > > Are there any other good books or resources in English to > understand the > > Shang Han Lun, > > other than the one translated by Mitchell, Wiseman and Ye? > > Looking for one which organizes the material and makes it easy to > > understand. > > > > Thanks. > > > > J.Kokko > > > > > > > > On Feb 1, 2008 3:55 PM, <zrosenbe wrote: > > > > > Yangchu, > > > I just wanted to point out that the BHI homeopathic people > > > developed their 'six stage' pathogens theory independently many > years > > > ago. I have a book called " Homeotoxicology " , written decades ago > by > > > the BHI founder Dr. Reckeweg, where he delineates six stages of > > > toxicity in disease states. He knew nothing about Chinese > medicine, > > > which makes it even more interesting. Miki adapted their > approach to > > > his own mastery of Shang Han Lun and started using this system > with > > > his clients. Miki, I should point out however, is a medical > polymath > > > who has as wide a range of knowledge of different medical > systems as > > > anyone I've encountered. However, he is grounded in deep > scholarship > > > of Chinese and Japanese medicine, with a specialty in Shang Han > Lun. > > > > > > > > > > > > On Feb 1, 2008, at 3:41 PM, Yangchu Higgins wrote: > > > > > > > Miki Shima is someone who's taken interest in the Six > > > > stages (channels, ahem) through some novel > > > > applications of homeopathics. He has presented some > > > > of his own findings regarding the 6 stages and > > > > " fu-xie " (lurking " crouching " pathogen). The company > > > > Heel has based their whole detox approach on the 6 > > > > stages. They even combine homeopathic prescriptions > > > > and use some Chinese herbs. > > > > > > > > > Chair, Department of Herbal Medicine > > > Pacific College of Oriental Medicine > > > San Diego, Ca. 92122 > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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