Guest guest Posted March 5, 2001 Report Share Posted March 5, 2001 In a message dated 3/5/01 12:41:40 PM Pacific Standard Time, mail writes: << The same applies to sham acupuncture - usually japanese needles with tubes are applied and the patient cannot see wether the needle has penetrated through the skin or not. However also the application of the placebo needle gives some kind of sensation that makes the patient believe there might have been a penetration by the needle. >> Sham acupuncture can also refer to actual acupuncture performed in places that are not actual acupuncture points, with those results compared to the people who had acupuncture in the correct points. Julie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 5, 2001 Report Share Posted March 5, 2001 Sham acupuncture can also refer to actual acupuncture performed in places that are not actual acupuncture points, with those results compared to the people who had acupuncture in the correct points.>>>>>That is the gold standard of sham acupuncture Alon - juliej8 Monday, March 05, 2001 1:24 PM Re: sham acupuncture In a message dated 3/5/01 12:41:40 PM Pacific Standard Time, mail writes:<< The same applies to sham acupuncture - usually japanese needles with tubesare applied and the patient cannot see wether the needle has penetratedthrough the skin or not. However also the application of the placebo needlegives some kind of sensation that makes the patient believe there might havebeen a penetration by the needle. >>Sham acupuncture can also refer to actual acupuncture performed in places that are not actual acupuncture points, with those results compared to the people who had acupuncture in the correct points.JulieChinese Herbal Medicine, a voluntary organization of licensed healthcare practitioners, matriculated students and postgraduate academics specializing in Chinese Herbal Medicine, provides a variety of professional services, including board approved online continuing education. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 6, 2001 Report Share Posted March 6, 2001 <<Sham acupuncture can also refer to actual acupuncture performed in places that are not actual acupuncture points, with those results compared to the people who had acupuncture in the correct points. >>>>>That is the gold standard of sham acupuncture Alon>> Correct points? Who determines what is a correct point? Do we include Tong points? Sawada points? Trigger points? All of the " New " and " Miscellaneous " non-channel points that have been used in China? You'd have to look pretty hard to find an area of the human body that hasn't been used as an acupuncture point at one time or another. How about needle tq? Non-inserted Japanese needles? You're talking about a significant number of practitioners with significantly reproducible tx outcomes based largely on contact needling and " incorrect point location " . I've spent over five years learning sham acupuncture by that definition. I'm all for more research, but sham acupuncture as defined here seems to me to be a concept put forward by researchers who have very limited knowledge of acupuncture. My $.02 before the plug gets pulled on the acupuncture discussion. ===== Robert Hayden, L.Ac. http://jabinet.net Get email at your own domain with Mail. http://personal.mail./ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 6, 2001 Report Share Posted March 6, 2001 Correct points? Who determines what is a correctpoint? Do we include Tong points? Sawada points?Trigger points? All of the "New" and "Miscellaneous"non-channel points that have been used in China? You'd have to look pretty hard to find an area of thehuman body that hasn't been used as an acupuncturepoint at one time or another.>>>>This applies not just for acupuncture. I think the point in such studies is that you should be able to show a better outcome using true therapy verses random one. If just thronging darts is as affective as using a process of evaluation and treatment than why study. Just have a monkey insert the needles or what ever the therapy is. The resion I posted the knee surgery placebo post is that I was very surprised to see a placebo surgery study done. I thought they stopped it \. Alon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 18, 2008 Report Share Posted January 18, 2008 EM since you seem to prefer technical accuracy (which is fine) Dictionary.com = sci·ence / & #712;sa & #618; & #601;ns/–noun 1. a branch of knowledge or study dealing with a body of facts or truths systematically arranged and showing the operation of general laws: the mathematical sciences. 2. systematic knowledge of the physical or material world gained through observation and experimentation. 3. any of the branches of natural or physical science. 4. systematized knowledge in general. 5. knowledge, as of facts or principles; knowledge gained by systematic study. 6. a particular branch of knowledge. 7. skill, esp. reflecting a precise application of facts or principles; proficiency I suppose that one could debate number 3....otherwise, Chinese medicine does absolutely fit the bill Also...the problem with " sham acupuncture " ....well, what about sham dentistry? what about sham psychotherapy? what about sham surgery? are these unacceptable also? -- http://www.fastmail.fm - Choose from over 50 domains or use your own Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 18, 2008 Report Share Posted January 18, 2008 Good response. Bravo!! Don Snow : learntcm: Fri, 18 Jan 2008 10:29:26 -0800Sham acupuncture EMsince you seem to prefer technical accuracy (which is fine)Dictionary.com = sci·ence / & #712;sa & #618; & #601;ns/–noun 1. a branch of knowledge or study dealing with a body of facts or truthssystematically arranged and showing the operation of general laws: themathematical sciences. 2. systematic knowledge of the physical or material world gained throughobservation and experimentation. 3. any of the branches of natural or physical science. 4. systematized knowledge in general. 5. knowledge, as of facts or principles; knowledge gained by systematicstudy. 6. a particular branch of knowledge. 7. skill, esp. reflecting a precise application of facts or principles;proficiency I suppose that one could debate number 3....otherwise, Chinese medicinedoes absolutely fit the billAlso...the problem with " sham acupuncture " ....well,what about sham dentistry?what about sham psychotherapy?what about sham surgery?are these unacceptable also?-- http://www.fastmail.fm - Choose from over 50 domains or use your own Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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