Guest guest Posted January 9, 2008 Report Share Posted January 9, 2008 hi everyone: i've got another question about assuming the professor title for a clinic supervisor position at the acu college in asheville, nc. i'm being hired as a clinic supervisor, but they have said that i can identify myself as professor on my nametag. i'm wondering if this is an ok thing to do. my limited experience there has been that everyone is on a first name basis. the students call md's who teach there by thier first name. so its not an issue for me about what people will call me. i'm more concerning about ethics and role modeling for the students. do you think it's ok to identify myself as professor if my job title is clinic supervisor, when the school is telling me i can do so? i appreciate your comments regarding this issue. kath -- Kath Bartlett, LAc, MS, BA UCLA Oriental Medicine Experienced, Dedicated, Effective Flying Dragon Liniment: Effective pain relief for muscles & joints Formulated by Kath Bartlett, Traditional Chinese Herbalist Available at Asheville Center for , or web order at: https://www.kamwo.com/shop/product.php?productid=17442 & cat=0 & page=1 Asheville Center For 70 Woodfin Place, Suite West Wing Two Asheville, NC 28801 828.258.2777 kbartlett www.AcupunctureAsheville.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 9, 2008 Report Share Posted January 9, 2008 Hi Kath, This is a cute question...... What does the title mean? It means a name, a name tag. The school offered you a job and gave you a name. It is a valid name. You can run a Donut business and name yourself a president of that Donut shop. You can also appoint someone and gave him a title as " chief executive of... " , a " general manager... " , department general manager " , A treasurer ... " even though they have no high school background. The title you earned from that school may be valid to other schools or other countries as long as where they need you. The only legal problem with the title of dr. " doctor " because most us have the attempt to fool the public, represent themselves as a medical doctor. I've seen there are so many acupuncturists with their title " Dr. " and attached their background of MD. ( a degree or title from their native land -it could be an illusion, not real, who knows ). Even though they had their degree or title anywhere, but they are not qualified here in US, which means those degrees or titles are useless. There are people who purchased a degree and tagged themselves with that honor. In this business, the game for acupuncture is very tough, you are not allowed to assert yourself a a doctor....... But as a professor who are you fooling to or misleading to ? Be proud of your title there ! YOu do not have to be concern with anyone's criticism. YOu 've earned it. Nam Nguyen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 9, 2008 Report Share Posted January 9, 2008 thanks nam. you went straight to the heart of my concern by discussing the difference btwn the professor and doctor title. kath On 1/9/08, dr_namnguyen58 <dr_namnguyen58 wrote: > > Hi Kath, > This is a cute question...... > What does the title mean? It means a name, a name tag. > The school offered you a job and gave you a name. It is a valid name. > You can run a Donut business and name yourself a president of that > Donut shop. You can also appoint someone and gave him a title as " > chief executive of... " , a " general manager... " , department general > manager " , A treasurer ... " even though they have no high school > background. The title you earned from that school may be valid to > other schools or other countries as long as where they need you. > The only legal problem with the title of dr. " doctor " because > most us have the attempt to fool the public, represent themselves as a > medical doctor. I've seen there are so many acupuncturists with their > title " Dr. " and attached their background of MD. ( a degree or title > from their native land -it could be an illusion, not real, who knows > ). Even though they had their degree or title anywhere, but they are > not qualified here in US, which means those degrees or titles are > useless. There are people who purchased a degree and tagged themselves > with that honor. > In this business, the game for acupuncture is very tough, you are > not allowed to assert yourself a a doctor....... But as a professor > who are you fooling to or misleading to ? Be proud of your title there > ! YOu do not have to be concern with anyone's criticism. YOu 've > earned it. > > Nam Nguyen > > > -- Kath Bartlett, LAc, MS, BA UCLA Oriental Medicine Experienced, Dedicated, Effective Flying Dragon Liniment: Effective pain relief for muscles & joints Formulated by Kath Bartlett, Traditional Chinese Herbalist Available at Asheville Center for , or web order at: https://www.kamwo.com/shop/product.php?productid=17442 & cat=0 & page=1 Asheville Center For 70 Woodfin Place, Suite West Wing Two Asheville, NC 28801 828.258.2777 kbartlett www.AcupunctureAsheville.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 9, 2008 Report Share Posted January 9, 2008 Kath, It sounds like you are being hired as a clinical supervisor, so why not just use this title. I have served in this capacity as well as instructor but both schools used the clinical supervisor title along with the name. This does seem to be the standard for our profession. BTW, why suggest something that may not be truthful? Mike W. Bowser, L Ac ________________________________ > Chinese Traditional Medicine > acukath > Wed, 9 Jan 2008 11:00:51 -0500 > Professor title?, revisited > > > hi everyone: > > i've got another question about assuming the professor title for a clinic > supervisor position at the acu college in asheville, nc. i'm being hired as > a clinic supervisor, but they have said that i can identify myself as > professor on my nametag. i'm wondering if this is an ok thing to do. my > limited experience there has been that everyone is on a first name basis. > the students call md's who teach there by thier first name. so its not an > issue for me about what people will call me. i'm more concerning about > ethics and role modeling for the students. do you think it's ok to identify > myself as professor if my job title is clinic supervisor, when the school is > telling me i can do so? > > i appreciate your comments regarding this issue. > > kath > > -- > > Oriental Medicine > Experienced, Dedicated, Effective > > Flying Dragon Liniment: > Effective pain relief for muscles & joints > Formulated by Kath Bartlett, Traditional Chinese Herbalist > Available at Asheville Center for , or web order at: > https://www.kamwo.com/shop/product.php?productid=17442 & cat=0 & page=1 > > Asheville Center For > 70 Woodfin Place, Suite West Wing Two > Asheville, NC 28801 828.258.2777 > kbartlett _______________ Put your friends on the big screen with Windows Vista® + Windows Live™. http://www.microsoft.com/windows/shop/specialoffers.mspx?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_CPC_Medi\ aCtr_bigscreen_012008 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 9, 2008 Report Share Posted January 9, 2008 mike: you hit directly onto my concern about this issue. i'm actually fine with clinic supervisor. i was told to get a nametag made, and that's when the issue came up: i was told i could identify myself as professor on the nametag. while the title is flattering, i'm confused about what's the right thing to do here: whether it's ok to say i'm a professor if the school says to do it, when my job is actually clinic superviser? kath On 1/9/08, mike Bowser <naturaldoc1 wrote: > > > Kath, > > It sounds like you are being hired as a clinical supervisor, so why not > just > use this title. I have served in this capacity as well as instructor but > both schools used the clinical supervisor title along with the name. This > does seem to be the standard for our profession. BTW, why suggest > something that may not be truthful? > > Mike W. Bowser, L Ac > > ________________________________ > > Chinese Traditional Medicine > > acukath > > Wed, 9 Jan 2008 11:00:51 -0500 > > Professor title?, revisited > > > > > > hi everyone: > > > > i've got another question about assuming the professor title for a > clinic > > supervisor position at the acu college in asheville, nc. i'm being hired > as > > a clinic supervisor, but they have said that i can identify myself as > > professor on my nametag. i'm wondering if this is an ok thing to do. my > > limited experience there has been that everyone is on a first name > basis. > > the students call md's who teach there by thier first name. so its not > an > > issue for me about what people will call me. i'm more concerning about > > ethics and role modeling for the students. do you think it's ok to > identify > > myself as professor if my job title is clinic supervisor, when the > school is > > telling me i can do so? > > > > i appreciate your comments regarding this issue. > > > > kath > > > > -- > > > > Oriental Medicine > > Experienced, Dedicated, Effective > > > > Flying Dragon Liniment: > > Effective pain relief for muscles & joints > > Formulated by Kath Bartlett, Traditional Chinese Herbalist > > Available at Asheville Center for , or web order at: > > https://www.kamwo.com/shop/product.php?productid=17442 & cat=0 & page=1 > > > > Asheville Center For > > 70 Woodfin Place, Suite West Wing Two > > Asheville, NC 28801 828.258.2777 > > kbartlett > _______________ > Put your friends on the big screen with Windows Vista® + Windows Live™. > > http://www.microsoft.com/windows/shop/specialoffers.mspx?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_CPC_Medi\ aCtr_bigscreen_012008 > > Subscribe to the free online journal for TCM at Times > http://www.chinesemedicinetimes.com > > Help build the world's largest online encyclopedia for Chinese medicine > and acupuncture, click, http://www.chinesemedicinetimes.com/wiki/CMTpedia > > > and adjust > accordingly. > > Messages are the property of the author. Any duplication outside the group > requires prior permission from the author. > > Please consider the environment and only print this message if absolutely > necessary. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 9, 2008 Report Share Posted January 9, 2008 Thanks to your agreement to your tittle, Kath. Another of my concern, I am not a Ph.D in Oriental Medicine. However, I believe some or all acupuncturists are entitled to the title " Dr. " if they have finished their Ph.D and earned their degree from our schools. I think they should be allowed to bear that title in which our states prohibited them to. If they are not to be called or entitled to with the title " Dr. " , then there is no one else in any schools without MD or any practitioners should be addressed so. If they ( professors or clinical supervisors ) are allowed to be addressed as such, then they ( other practitioners ) must have the same honor. If our states prohibit this title. this is not our problems. Our states must stop individual schools to advertise such a scam business and also to all others who are practicing or teaching us to be called " Dr..... " Otherwise, this unethical practice is still fooling the public. We , acupuncturists, have done everything legally, accepted and followed our legal procedures to get a degree which we believed in to. It is the problem of our school structures who are fooling all of their students and the public. They must be punished and must be closed if they are continued to do so. This is a grand fraud , a misleading to all. It is not our problems, but it is the school's and our states'........ What is everybody's opinion????????? If OMD schools are still fishing us to get a degree, we should be entitled to what we invest into ( time and money ). Nam Nguyen Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Mobile. Try it now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 9, 2008 Report Share Posted January 9, 2008 you bring up some goods points on this issue, nam. esp schools telling the students that they are doctors and issuing omd degrees. i can't guess at what the motivation is behind this is on the schools part. at pcom, our prac mgmt instructor was very emphatic that we should call ourselves doctors. i hear she has since toned that rhetoric down. however, it is confusing to the students, who go on to practice and are not clear on the issue of the dr. title. it has created a lot of confusion in our profession on this issue. kath On 1/9/08, Nam Nguyen <dr_namnguyen58 wrote: > > Thanks to your agreement to your tittle, Kath. > > Another of my concern, I am not a Ph.D in Oriental Medicine. > However, I believe some or all acupuncturists are entitled to the title " > Dr. " if they have finished their Ph.D and earned their degree from our > schools. > I think they should be allowed to bear that title in which our states > prohibited them to. If they are not to be called or entitled to with the > title " Dr. " , then there is no one else in any schools without MD or any > practitioners should be addressed so. If they ( professors or clinical > supervisors ) are allowed to be addressed as such, then they ( other > practitioners ) must have the same honor. > If our states prohibit this title. this is not our problems. Our states > must stop individual schools to advertise such a scam business and also to > all others who are practicing or teaching us to be called " Dr..... " > Otherwise, this unethical practice is still fooling the public. > We , acupuncturists, have done everything legally, accepted and followed > our legal procedures to get a degree which we believed in to. It is the > problem of our school structures who are fooling all of their students and > the public. They must be punished and must be closed if they are continued > to do so. This is a grand fraud , a misleading to all. > It is not our problems, but it is the school's and our states'........ > What is everybody's opinion????????? If OMD schools are still fishing us to > get a degree, we should be entitled to what we invest into ( time and money > ). > > Nam Nguyen > > > Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Mobile. Try it > now. > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 10, 2008 Report Share Posted January 10, 2008 I guess it comes down to how you see yourself and whether or not you consider this ethical, and if that bothers you or not. For me, I like to focus on truth in advertising. BTW, I have never seen any OM professors wearing any badges unless they work in the clinic and then it is only clinical supervisor. Mike W. Bowser, L Ac ------- > Chinese Medicine > acukath > Wed, 9 Jan 2008 14:43:45 -0500 > Re: Professor title?, revisited > > mike: > > you hit directly onto my concern about this issue. i'm actually fine with > clinic supervisor. i was told to get a nametag made, and that's when the > issue came up: i was told i could identify myself as professor on the > nametag. while the title is flattering, i'm confused about what's the right > thing to do here: whether it's ok to say i'm a professor if the school says > to do it, when my job is actually clinic superviser? > > kath > > > On 1/9/08, mike Bowser wrote: >> >> >> Kath, >> >> It sounds like you are being hired as a clinical supervisor, so why not >> just >> use this title. I have served in this capacity as well as instructor but >> both schools used the clinical supervisor title along with the name. This >> does seem to be the standard for our profession. BTW, why suggest >> something that may not be truthful? >> >> Mike W. Bowser, L Ac >> >> ________________________________ >>> Chinese Traditional Medicine >>> acukath >>> Wed, 9 Jan 2008 11:00:51 -0500 >>> Professor title?, revisited >>> >>> >>> hi everyone: >>> >>> i've got another question about assuming the professor title for a >> clinic >>> supervisor position at the acu college in asheville, nc. i'm being hired >> as >>> a clinic supervisor, but they have said that i can identify myself as >>> professor on my nametag. i'm wondering if this is an ok thing to do. my >>> limited experience there has been that everyone is on a first name >> basis. >>> the students call md's who teach there by thier first name. so its not >> an >>> issue for me about what people will call me. i'm more concerning about >>> ethics and role modeling for the students. do you think it's ok to >> identify >>> myself as professor if my job title is clinic supervisor, when the >> school is >>> telling me i can do so? >>> >>> i appreciate your comments regarding this issue. >>> >>> kath >>> >>> -- >>> >>> Oriental Medicine >>> Experienced, Dedicated, Effective >>> >>> Flying Dragon Liniment: >>> Effective pain relief for muscles & joints >>> Formulated by Kath Bartlett, Traditional Chinese Herbalist >>> Available at Asheville Center for , or web order at: >>> https://www.kamwo.com/shop/product.php?productid=17442 & cat=0 & page=1 >>> >>> Asheville Center For >>> 70 Woodfin Place, Suite West Wing Two >>> Asheville, NC 28801 828.258.2777 >>> kbartlett >> _______________ >> Put your friends on the big screen with Windows Vista® + Windows Live™. >> >> http://www.microsoft.com/windows/shop/specialoffers.mspx?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_CPC_Medi\ aCtr_bigscreen_012008 >> >> Subscribe to the free online journal for TCM at Times >> http://www.chinesemedicinetimes.com >> >> Help build the world's largest online encyclopedia for Chinese medicine >> and acupuncture, click, http://www.chinesemedicinetimes.com/wiki/CMTpedia >> >> >> and adjust >> accordingly. >> >> Messages are the property of the author. Any duplication outside the group >> requires prior permission from the author. >> >> Please consider the environment and only print this message if absolutely >> necessary. >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 10, 2008 Report Share Posted January 10, 2008 Kath, Try looking here. Maybe it will create some perspective. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Professor Personally I prefer " The Great and Powerful Oz " on my clinic name tag. Cheers, Michael Chinese Medicine , " Kath Bartlett, MS, LAc " wrote: > > you bring up some goods points on this issue, nam. esp schools telling the > students that they are doctors and issuing omd degrees. i can't guess > at what the motivation is behind this is on the schools part. at pcom, our > prac mgmt instructor was very emphatic that we should call ourselves > doctors. i hear she has since toned that rhetoric down. however, it is > confusing to the students, who go on to practice and are not clear on the > issue of the dr. title. it has created a lot of confusion in our profession > on this issue. > > kath > > > On 1/9/08, Nam Nguyen <dr_namnguyen58 wrote: > > > > Thanks to your agreement to your tittle, Kath. > > > > Another of my concern, I am not a Ph.D in Oriental Medicine. > > However, I believe some or all acupuncturists are entitled to the title " > > Dr. " if they have finished their Ph.D and earned their degree from our > > schools. > > I think they should be allowed to bear that title in which our states > > prohibited them to. If they are not to be called or entitled to with the > > title " Dr. " , then there is no one else in any schools without MD or any > > practitioners should be addressed so. If they ( professors or clinical > > supervisors ) are allowed to be addressed as such, then they ( other > > practitioners ) must have the same honor. > > If our states prohibit this title. this is not our problems. Our states > > must stop individual schools to advertise such a scam business and also to > > all others who are practicing or teaching us to be called " Dr..... " > > Otherwise, this unethical practice is still fooling the public. > > We , acupuncturists, have done everything legally, accepted and followed > > our legal procedures to get a degree which we believed in to. It is the > > problem of our school structures who are fooling all of their students and > > the public. They must be punished and must be closed if they are continued > > to do so. This is a grand fraud , a misleading to all. > > It is not our problems, but it is the school's and our states'........ > > What is everybody's opinion????????? If OMD schools are still fishing us to > > get a degree, we should be entitled to what we invest into ( time and money > > ). > > > > Nam Nguyen > > > > > > Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Mobile. Try it > > now. > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 10, 2008 Report Share Posted January 10, 2008 Hi Kath, At the school where I teach, they provide the name tags for the clinic, so there isn't any room for confusion. At the top is the school name. In the center, in a larger typeface, is my name. At the bottom it says " Acupuncturist, Herbalist " . That's standard for everybody. Regarding professor titles, in our school they are used for classroom teachers. The titles are Instructor, Assistant Professor, Associate Professor, and Professor. They have diffferent pay grades and require different levels of experience and / or education. On a practical level, " professor " simply can mean " teacher " . Students who like to be formal sometimes address me that way. Others simply say, " hey dude " or whatever they want to call me. They aren't aware of, or care about, the school's hierarchy of titles. They will make up their mind what they think of a teacher based on their classroom experiences. So, if your school wants to call you professor, don't worry about it. The meaning of the term varies from school to school and doesn't automatically imply a level of expertise or seniority. - Bill Schoenbart Chinese Medicine , " Kath Bartlett, MS, LAc " wrote: > > hi everyone: > > i've got another question about assuming the professor title for a clinic > supervisor position at the acu college in asheville, nc. i'm being hired as > a clinic supervisor, but they have said that i can identify myself as > professor on my nametag. i'm wondering if this is an ok thing to do. my > limited experience there has been that everyone is on a first name basis. > the students call md's who teach there by thier first name. so its not an > issue for me about what people will call me. i'm more concerning about > ethics and role modeling for the students. do you think it's ok to identify > myself as professor if my job title is clinic supervisor, when the school is > telling me i can do so? > > i appreciate your comments regarding this issue. > > kath > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 10, 2008 Report Share Posted January 10, 2008 Bill, If it means little then why add more confusion by using it out of context or when it does not really apply? Don't you think we should ask that our schools follow a norm and not create some new confusing lingo? Mike W. Bowser, L Ac ________________________________ > Chinese Medicine > plantmed > Thu, 10 Jan 2008 16:50:50 +0000 > Re: Professor title?, revisited > > > Hi Kath, > > At the school where I teach, they provide the name tags for the > clinic, so there isn't any room for confusion. At the top is the > school name. In the center, in a larger typeface, is my name. At the > bottom it says " Acupuncturist, Herbalist " . That's standard for > everybody. > > Regarding professor titles, in our school they are used for > classroom teachers. The titles are Instructor, Assistant Professor, > Associate Professor, and Professor. They have diffferent pay grades > and require different levels of experience and / or education. > > On a practical level, " professor " simply can mean " teacher " . > Students who like to be formal sometimes address me that way. Others > simply say, " hey dude " or whatever they want to call me. They aren't > aware of, or care about, the school's hierarchy of titles. They will > make up their mind what they think of a teacher based on their > classroom experiences. > > So, if your school wants to call you professor, don't worry about > it. The meaning of the term varies from school to school and doesn't > automatically imply a level of expertise or seniority. > > - Bill Schoenbart > > Chinese Medicine _______________ Get the power of Windows + Web with the new Windows Live. http://www.windowslive.com?ocid=TXT_TAGHM_Wave2_powerofwindows_012008 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 11, 2008 Report Share Posted January 11, 2008 The standard academic procedure is to grant the title of " Instructor " or " Clinical Instructor " to any individual teaching (whether class or clinic) who has not been through the institution's ranking process. Individuals who go through the ranking process (whatever that may be for the institution) are ranked (Assistant Professor, Associate Professor, Full Professor) according to the institutional standards. Typically these standards are established by the faculty, based on the type of experience (clinical, teaching, research, writing, service etc) that the faculty deem is appropriate for each level, and the ranking process itself is done by a committee of the faculty. While it is true that the term professor may be used as an honorific for any individual teacher, when it is used as an official academic title it does have meaning - If it is used without a qualifier before it (assistant, associate) it means that the individual has reached the highest possible teaching rank at that institution. I don't know how involved in the institution you are, or how involved you want to get, but a discussion about this amongst the faculty is certainly something that would benefit the school in the long run and create much less confusion for faculty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 11, 2008 Report Share Posted January 11, 2008 We do, indeed, now have a Doctoral degree and title. It is the DAOM. It is a doctorate degree and thus, one may " ethically " use the title once earned. Don Snow DAOM, MPH, LAc : dr_namnguyen58: Wed, 9 Jan 2008 12:43:34 -0800Re: TCM - Professor title?, revisited Thanks to your agreement to your tittle, Kath.Another of my concern, I am not a Ph.D in Oriental Medicine. However, I believe some or all acupuncturists are entitled to the title " Dr. " if they have finished their Ph.D and earned their degree from our schools.I think they should be allowed to bear that title in which our states prohibited them to. If they are not to be called or entitled to with the title " Dr. " , then there is no one else in any schools without MD or any practitioners should be addressed so. If they ( professors or clinical supervisors ) are allowed to be addressed as such, then they ( other practitioners ) must have the same honor.If our states prohibit this title. this is not our problems. Our states must stop individual schools to advertise such a scam business and also to all others who are practicing or teaching us to be called " Dr..... " Otherwise, this unethical practice is still fooling the public.We , acupuncturists, have done everything legally, accepted and followed our legal procedures to get a degree which we believed in to. It is the problem of our school structures who are fooling all of their students and the public. They must be punished and must be closed if they are continued to do so. This is a grand fraud , a misleading to all. It is not our problems, but it is the school's and our states'........ What is everybody's opinion????????? If OMD schools are still fishing us to get a degree, we should be entitled to what we invest into ( time and money ).Nam NguyenBe a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Mobile. Try it now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 11, 2008 Report Share Posted January 11, 2008 Mike, My point was that the term is not used consistently across the board, so there is no norm. I see no harm in her complying with her school's policy in using the term " professor " . - Bill Chinese Medicine , mike Bowser <naturaldoc1 wrote: > > > Bill, > > If it means little then why add more confusion by using it out of context or when it > does not really apply? Don't you think we should ask that our schools follow a > norm and not create some new confusing lingo? > > Mike W. Bowser, L Ac > > ________________________________ > > Chinese Medicine > > plantmed > > Thu, 10 Jan 2008 16:50:50 +0000 > > Re: Professor title?, revisited > > > > > > Hi Kath, > > > > At the school where I teach, they provide the name tags for the > > clinic, so there isn't any room for confusion. At the top is the > > school name. In the center, in a larger typeface, is my name. At the > > bottom it says " Acupuncturist, Herbalist " . That's standard for > > everybody. > > > > Regarding professor titles, in our school they are used for > > classroom teachers. The titles are Instructor, Assistant Professor, > > Associate Professor, and Professor. They have diffferent pay grades > > and require different levels of experience and / or education. > > > > On a practical level, " professor " simply can mean " teacher " . > > Students who like to be formal sometimes address me that way. Others > > simply say, " hey dude " or whatever they want to call me. They aren't > > aware of, or care about, the school's hierarchy of titles. They will > > make up their mind what they think of a teacher based on their > > classroom experiences. > > > > So, if your school wants to call you professor, don't worry about > > it. The meaning of the term varies from school to school and doesn't > > automatically imply a level of expertise or seniority. > > > > - Bill Schoenbart > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 11, 2008 Report Share Posted January 11, 2008 Bill, For the sake of argument, should we not encourage her to look at some conformity within our schools, at least on the title issue? You agreed that your program uses one similar to the ones that I have worked with and even had while attending PCOM. It sounds like she has an option, and I would hope that she would choose the one that reflects what she actually is working upon (clinical practice or faculty) and not that of a professor. Mike W. Bowser, L Ac : plantmed: Fri, 11 Jan 2008 17:35:50 +0000Re: Professor title?, revisited Mike,My point was that the term is not used consistently across the board,so there is no norm. I see no harm in her complying with her school'spolicy in using the term " professor " .- Bill--- In Chinese Medicine , mike Bowser<naturaldoc1 wrote:>> > Bill,> > If it means little then why add more confusion by using it out ofcontext or when it > does not really apply? Don't you think we should ask that ourschools follow a> norm and not create some new confusing lingo?> > Mike W. Bowser, L Ac> > ________________________________> > To: Chinese Medicine > > plantmed > Thu, 10 Jan 2008 16:50:50 +0000> > Re: Professor title?, revisited> > > > > > Hi Kath,> > > > At the school where I teach, they provide the name tags for the> > clinic, so there isn't any room for confusion. At the top is the> > school name. In the center, in a larger typeface, is my name. At the> > bottom it says " Acupuncturist, Herbalist " . That's standard for> > everybody.> > > > Regarding professor titles, in our school they are used for> > classroom teachers. The titles are Instructor, Assistant Professor,> > Associate Professor, and Professor. They have diffferent pay grades> > and require different levels of experience and / or education.> > > > On a practical level, " professor " simply can mean " teacher " .> > Students who like to be formal sometimes address me that way. Others> > simply say, " hey dude " or whatever they want to call me. They aren't> > aware of, or care about, the school's hierarchy of titles. They will> > make up their mind what they think of a teacher based on their> > classroom experiences.> > > > So, if your school wants to call you professor, don't worry about> > it. The meaning of the term varies from school to school and doesn't> > automatically imply a level of expertise or seniority.> > > > - Bill Schoenbart> > _______________ Make distant family not so distant with Windows Vista® + Windows Live™. http://www.microsoft.com/windows/digitallife/keepintouch.mspx?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_CPC\ _VideoChat_distantfamily_012008 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 12, 2008 Report Share Posted January 12, 2008 I must have misunderstood. I thought she was told by the school to call herself a professor. Chinese Medicine , mike Bowser <naturaldoc1 wrote: > > Bill, > > For the sake of argument, should we not encourage her to look at some > conformity within our schools, at least on the title issue? You agreed > that your program uses one similar to the ones that I have worked with > and even had while attending PCOM. It sounds like she has an option, > and I would hope that she would choose the one that reflects what > she actually is working upon (clinical practice or faculty) and not that of a > professor. Mike W. Bowser, L Ac > > > : plantmed: Fri, 11 Jan 2008 17:35:50 +0000Re: Professor title?, revisited > > > > > Mike,My point was that the term is not used consistently across the board,so there is no norm. I see no harm in her complying with her school'spolicy in using the term " professor " .- Bill--- In Chinese Medicine , mike Bowser<naturaldoc1@> wrote:>> > Bill,> > If it means little then why add more confusion by using it out ofcontext or when it > does not really apply? Don't you think we should ask that ourschools follow a> norm and not create some new confusing lingo?> > Mike W. Bowser, L Ac> > ________________________________> > To: Chinese Medicine > > plantmed@> > Thu, 10 Jan 2008 16:50:50 +0000> > Re: Professor title?, revisited> > > > > > Hi Kath,> > > > At the school where I teach, they provide the name tags for the> > clinic, so there isn't any room for confusion. At the top is the> > school name. In the center, in a larger typeface, is my name. At the> > bottom it says " Acupuncturist, Herbalist " . That's standard for> > everybody.> > > > Regarding professor titles, in our school they are used for> > classroom teachers. The titles are Instructor, Assistant Professor,> > Associate Professor, and Professor. They have diffferent pay grades> > and require different levels of experience and / or education.> > > > On a practical level, " professor " simply can mean " teacher " .> > Students who like to be formal sometimes address me that way. Others> > simply say, " hey dude " or whatever they want to call me. They aren't> > aware of, or care about, the school's hierarchy of titles. They will> > make up their mind what they think of a teacher based on their> > classroom experiences.> > > > So, if your school wants to call you professor, don't worry about> > it. The meaning of the term varies from school to school and doesn't> > automatically imply a level of expertise or seniority.> > > > - Bill Schoenbart> > _______________ > Make distant family not so distant with Windows Vista® + Windows Live™. > http://www.microsoft.com/windows/digitallife/keepintouch.mspx?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_CPC\ _VideoChat_distantfamily_012008 > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 12, 2008 Report Share Posted January 12, 2008 Hi everybody, I think the title is only risen among ourselves " acupuncturists " . If we want some respect why should we should we look at this title and reason within ourselves. Do we want somebody else to have a discussion of this? I do not want this kind of picture, for sure. I honor Kathy with this title and may be even more and more. She deserves it! She did not beg for it, not purchased it neither she lobbied it. She earned this from her time, money and effort through a hard way, through education, tests and examsnot only through school, but also through state board. What I define these terms, I may be wrong, but you may correct or add: Professor is one who can profess ( talk to other ) about her subjects she masters. Professor is used in University, is one who can talk about what she masters it. She does not care how you do it or what you do it, but you must understand it. Instructor is used in college, is one who can instruct you what to do and what you must do. She builds up your knowledge. You must follow the orders. Teacher is used in elementary, is one who teaches you what is wrong and what is right. She is there to teach you and to correct you. Coach is in high school, college or university, is one who works with you, helps you in planning and helps you in changing your strategies. You must work with her. Doctor is used in philosophy, University, is one who teaches you. Doct means teach, plus or " one who " . But now a day, doctors in medicine who do not teach you anything but threaten you... We are not doctors because we are not allow to threaten any people! Just kidding. So please honor our people " acupuncturists " with prestige title. They earn it. Do not let others disgrace us and please do not be discourage or bear our own pictures in negative images!!!! Give them all what we can support !!! We are a team. We can only push this blame to our schools and our states for that we have been cheated in terms of money and time. Thanks, Nam Nguyen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 17, 2008 Report Share Posted January 17, 2008 bill: thanks for your thoughts on this. i thought it was a little odd that they wanted me to make the name tag. seems to me that the school should issue it, for uniformity, as you say. i recall that pcom made all the nametags for students and faculty members. kath On Jan 10, 2008 6:42 PM, mike Bowser <naturaldoc1 wrote: > > Bill, > > If it means little then why add more confusion by using it out of context > or when it > does not really apply? Don't you think we should ask that our schools > follow a > norm and not create some new confusing lingo? > > Mike W. Bowser, L Ac > > ________________________________ > > To: Chinese Medicine <Chinese Medicine%40yaho\ ogroups.com> > > plantmed <plantmed%40earthlink.net> > > Thu, 10 Jan 2008 16:50:50 +0000 > > Re: Professor title?, revisited > > > > > > > Hi Kath, > > > > At the school where I teach, they provide the name tags for the > > clinic, so there isn't any room for confusion. At the top is the > > school name. In the center, in a larger typeface, is my name. At the > > bottom it says " Acupuncturist, Herbalist " . That's standard for > > everybody. > > > > Regarding professor titles, in our school they are used for > > classroom teachers. The titles are Instructor, Assistant Professor, > > Associate Professor, and Professor. They have diffferent pay grades > > and require different levels of experience and / or education. > > > > On a practical level, " professor " simply can mean " teacher " . > > Students who like to be formal sometimes address me that way. Others > > simply say, " hey dude " or whatever they want to call me. They aren't > > aware of, or care about, the school's hierarchy of titles. They will > > make up their mind what they think of a teacher based on their > > classroom experiences. > > > > So, if your school wants to call you professor, don't worry about > > it. The meaning of the term varies from school to school and doesn't > > automatically imply a level of expertise or seniority. > > > > - Bill Schoenbart > > > > --- In Chinese Medicine <Chinese Medicine%40yaho\ ogroups.com> > ________ > Get the power of Windows + Web with the new Windows Live. > http://www.windowslive.com?ocid=TXT_TAGHM_Wave2_powerofwindows_012008 > > -- Kath Bartlett, LAc, MS, BA UCLA Oriental Medicine Experienced, Dedicated, Effective Flying Dragon Liniment: Effective pain relief for muscles & joints Formulated by Kath Bartlett, Traditional Chinese Herbalist Available at Asheville Center for , or web order at: https://www.kamwo.com/shop/product.php?productid=17442 & cat=0 & page=1 Asheville Center For 70 Woodfin Place, Suite West Wing Two Asheville, NC 28801 828.258.2777 kbartlett www.AcupunctureAsheville.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 17, 2008 Report Share Posted January 17, 2008 Oz sounds good. thanks for the laugh. kath On Jan 9, 2008 11:51 PM, mpplac <inquiry wrote: > Kath, > Try looking here. Maybe it will create some perspective. > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Professor > Personally I prefer " The Great and Powerful Oz " on my clinic name tag. > Cheers, > Michael > > --- In Chinese Medicine <Chinese Medicine%40yaho\ ogroups.com>, > " Kath Bartlett, > > MS, LAc " wrote: > > > > you bring up some goods points on this issue, nam. esp schools > telling the > > students that they are doctors and issuing omd degrees. i can't guess > > at what the motivation is behind this is on the schools part. at > pcom, our > > prac mgmt instructor was very emphatic that we should call ourselves > > doctors. i hear she has since toned that rhetoric down. however, it is > > confusing to the students, who go on to practice and are not clear > on the > > issue of the dr. title. it has created a lot of confusion in our > profession > > on this issue. > > > > kath > > > > > > On 1/9/08, Nam Nguyen <dr_namnguyen58 wrote: > > > > > > Thanks to your agreement to your tittle, Kath. > > > > > > Another of my concern, I am not a Ph.D in Oriental Medicine. > > > However, I believe some or all acupuncturists are entitled to the > title " > > > Dr. " if they have finished their Ph.D and earned their degree > from our > > > schools. > > > I think they should be allowed to bear that title in which our states > > > prohibited them to. If they are not to be called or entitled to > with the > > > title " Dr. " , then there is no one else in any schools without > MD or any > > > practitioners should be addressed so. If they ( professors or clinical > > > supervisors ) are allowed to be addressed as such, then they ( other > > > practitioners ) must have the same honor. > > > If our states prohibit this title. this is not our problems. Our > states > > > must stop individual schools to advertise such a scam business and > also to > > > all others who are practicing or teaching us to be called " Dr..... " > > > Otherwise, this unethical practice is still fooling the public. > > > We , acupuncturists, have done everything legally, accepted and > followed > > > our legal procedures to get a degree which we believed in to. It > is the > > > problem of our school structures who are fooling all of their > students and > > > the public. They must be punished and must be closed if they are > continued > > > to do so. This is a grand fraud , a misleading to all. > > > It is not our problems, but it is the school's and our states'........ > > > What is everybody's opinion????????? If OMD schools are still > fishing us to > > > get a degree, we should be entitled to what we invest into ( time > and money > > > ). > > > > > > Nam Nguyen > > > > > > > > > Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Mobile. > Try it > > > now. > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 18, 2008 Report Share Posted January 18, 2008 The doctorate programs that exist in American TCM are hardly Ph.D's. They are more akin to advance clinical training but since they require no original research or dissertation, I do not think they should be considered Ph.D degrees. And, in fact they are not. They are DAOM degrees. EM Chinese Medicine , Donald Snow <don83407 wrote: > > > We do, indeed, now have a Doctoral degree and title. It is the DAOM. It is a doctorate degree and thus, one may " ethically " use the title once earned. > > Don Snow > DAOM, MPH, LAc > > > : dr_namnguyen58: Wed, 9 Jan 2008 12:43:34 -0800Re: Professor title?, revisited > > > > > Thanks to your agreement to your tittle, Kath.Another of my concern, I am not a Ph.D in Oriental Medicine. However, I believe some or all acupuncturists are entitled to the title " Dr. " if they have finished their Ph.D and earned their degree from our schools.I think they should be allowed to bear that title in which our states prohibited them to. If they are not to be called or entitled to with the title " Dr. " , then there is no one else in any schools without MD or any practitioners should be addressed so. If they ( professors or clinical supervisors ) are allowed to be addressed as such, then they ( other practitioners ) must have the same honor.If our states prohibit this title. this is not our problems. Our states must stop individual schools to advertise such a scam business and also to all others who are practicing or teaching us to be called " Dr..... " Otherwise, this unethical practice is still fooling the public.We , acupuncturists, have done everything legally, accepted and followed our legal procedures to get a degree which we believed in to. It is the problem of our school structures who are fooling all of their students and the public. They must be punished and must be closed if they are continued to do so. This is a grand fraud , a misleading to all. It is not our problems, but it is the school's and our states'........ What is everybody's opinion????????? If OMD schools are still fishing us to get a degree, we should be entitled to what we invest into ( time and money ).Nam Nguyen------------------------- --------Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Mobile. Try it now.[Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 18, 2008 Report Share Posted January 18, 2008 at the moment, the exception is Five Branches DAOM, where there is option to pursue add'l year for a research PhD via sister schools in China. ~e On Jan 17, 2008 9:15 PM, establishment_man <establishment_man wrote: > The doctorate programs that exist in American TCM are hardly Ph.D's. > They are more akin to advance clinical training but since they > require no original research or dissertation, I do not think they > should be considered Ph.D degrees. And, in fact they are not. They > are DAOM degrees. > > EM > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 18, 2008 Report Share Posted January 18, 2008 marnie: thank you for the clarification. this is what i was thinking, so it seemed irreg to me that i would just put prof on my nametag. this is a new school (not yet accredited) and i don't think that they have a ranking system in place. kath On Jan 11, 2008 9:23 AM, marnae ergil <marnae wrote: > The standard academic procedure is to grant the title > of " Instructor " or " Clinical Instructor " to any > individual teaching (whether class or clinic) who has > not been through the institution's ranking process. > Individuals who go through the ranking process > (whatever that may be for the institution) are ranked > (Assistant Professor, Associate Professor, Full > Professor) according to the institutional standards. > Typically these standards are established by the > faculty, based on the type of experience (clinical, > teaching, research, writing, service etc) that the > faculty deem is appropriate for each level, and the > ranking process itself is done by a committee of the > faculty. > > While it is true that the term professor may be used > as an honorific for any individual teacher, when it is > used as an official academic title it does have > meaning - If it is used without a qualifier before it > (assistant, associate) it means that the individual > has reached the highest possible teaching rank at that > institution. > > I don't know how involved in the institution you are, > or how involved you want to get, but a discussion > about this amongst the faculty is certainly something > that would benefit the school in the long run and > create much less confusion for faculty. > > > -- Kath Bartlett, LAc, MS, BA UCLA Oriental Medicine Experienced, Dedicated, Effective Flying Dragon Liniment: Effective pain relief for muscles & joints Formulated by Kath Bartlett, Traditional Chinese Herbalist Available at Asheville Center for , or web order at: https://www.kamwo.com/shop/product.php?productid=17442 & cat=0 & page=1 Asheville Center For 70 Woodfin Place, Suite West Wing Two Asheville, NC 28801 828.258.2777 kbartlett www.AcupunctureAsheville.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 18, 2008 Report Share Posted January 18, 2008 Kath, Be proud of your name tag or title " professor " . You are recognized and and believed to earn it. There are 2 reasons for not taking it: One, is your school does not honor it. Two, you deny it. It is your honor. Nam Nguyen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 18, 2008 Report Share Posted January 18, 2008 I beg to differ, all DAOM students at PCOM had original capstone publishable research projects to complete and then sit before a board. I don't suppose you have a DAOM? Don Snow DAOM, MPH, LAc. : establishment_man: Fri, 18 Jan 2008 05:15:47 +0000Re: TCM - Professor title?, revisited The doctorate programs that exist in American TCM are hardly Ph.D's. They are more akin to advance clinical training but since they require no original research or dissertation, I do not think they should be considered Ph.D degrees. And, in fact they are not. They are DAOM degrees.EM--- In Chinese Medicine , Donald Snow <don83407 wrote:>> > We do, indeed, now have a Doctoral degree and title. It is the DAOM. It is a doctorate degree and thus, one may " ethically " use the title once earned. > > Don Snow> DAOM, MPH, LAc> > > : dr_namnguyen58: Wed, 9 Jan 2008 12:43:34 -0800Re: Professor title?, revisited> > > > > Thanks to your agreement to your tittle, Kath.Another of my concern, I am not a Ph.D in Oriental Medicine. However, I believe some or all acupuncturists are entitled to the title " Dr. " if they have finished their Ph.D and earned their degree from our schools.I think they should be allowed to bear that title in which our states prohibited them to. If they are not to be called or entitled to with the title " Dr. " , then there is no one else in any schools without MD or any practitioners should be addressed so. If they ( professors or clinical supervisors ) are allowed to be addressed as such, then they ( other practitioners ) must have the same honor.If our states prohibit this title. this is not our problems. Our states must stop individual schools to advertise such a scam business and also to all others who are practicing or teaching us to be called " Dr..... " Otherwise, this unethical practice is still fooling the public.We , acupuncturists, have done everything legally, accepted and followed our legal procedures to get a degree which we believed in to. It is the problem of our school structures who are fooling all of their students and the public. They must be punished and must be closed if they are continued to do so. This is a grand fraud , a misleading to all. It is not our problems, but it is the school's and our states'........ What is everybody's opinion????????? If OMD schools are still fishing us to get a degree, we should be entitled to what we invest into ( time and money ).Nam NguyenBe a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Mobile. Try it now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 18, 2008 Report Share Posted January 18, 2008 Don is right in that there is a research project involved but these are not meant to be a PhD (research doctorate) but more advanced clinical training. The DAOM is to provide the difference in clinical training and experience to be a doctor. As most of these come from the west coast it might be hard for others to understand what the driving force is and why it is being pursued so rapidly by many. Maybe Don could address his experience at PCOM's DAOM and what he thinks are reasons relating to its popularity. Just an FYI, there is one PhD program in CCM offered at AUCM if anyone wants to chime in about their experience with that one. Mike W. Bowser, L Ac : don83407: Fri, 18 Jan 2008 11:46:56 -0600RE: Professor title?, revisited I beg to differ, all DAOM students at PCOM had original capstone publishable research projects to complete and then sit before a board. I don't suppose you have a DAOM? Don Snow DAOM, MPH, LAc.To: Chinese Medicine: establishment_man: Fri, 18 Jan 2008 05:15:47 +0000Re: TCM - Professor title?, revisitedThe doctorate programs that exist in American TCM are hardly Ph.D's. They are more akin to advance clinical training but since they require no original research or dissertation, I do not think they should be considered Ph.D degrees. And, in fact they are not. They are DAOM degrees.EM--- In Chinese Medicine , Donald Snow <don83407 wrote:>> > We do, indeed, now have a Doctoral degree and title. It is the DAOM. It is a doctorate degree and thus, one may " ethically " use the title once earned. > > Don Snow> DAOM, MPH, LAc> > > : dr_namnguyen58: Wed, 9 Jan 2008 12:43:34 -0800Re: Professor title?, revisited> > > > > Thanks to your agreement to your tittle, Kath.Another of my concern, I am not a Ph.D in Oriental Medicine. However, I believe some or all acupuncturists are entitled to the title " Dr. " if they have finished their Ph.D and earned their degree from our schools.I think they should be allowed to bear that title in which our states prohibited them to. If they are not to be called or entitled to with the title " Dr. " , then there is no one else in any schools without MD or any practitioners should be addressed so. If they ( professors or clinical supervisors ) are allowed to be addressed as such, then they ( other practitioners ) must have the same honor.If our states prohibit this title. this is not our problems. Our states must stop individual schools to advertise such a scam business and also to all others who are practicing or teaching us to be called " Dr..... " Otherwise, this unethical practice is still fooling the public.We , acupuncturists, have done everything legally, accepted and followed our legal procedures to get a degree which we believed in to. It is the problem of our school structures who are fooling all of their students and the public. They must be punished and must be closed if they are continued to do so. This is a grand fraud , a misleading to all. It is not our problems, but it is the school's and our states'........ What is everybody's opinion????????? If OMD schools are still fishing us to get a degree, we should be entitled to what we invest into ( time and money ).Nam NguyenBe a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Mobile. Try it now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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