Guest guest Posted February 15, 2002 Report Share Posted February 15, 2002 Colleen, In recommending these several formulas to Doug, you make no mention of pattern discrimination. These various formulas are for very different patterns. So I'm wondering why you didn't say anything about this. Are you saying that you prescribe or that Dough should prescribe these formulas on the basis of a disease diagnosis (i.e., cervical dysplasia)? The way you present these formulas, it sounds pretty hit or miss, trial and error. If not, is there anything more helpful you might share with Doug to help him make the right choice? My point here is, Who knows who's listening in on this dialogue out there? I'd hate for some visiting member of another health care profession or regulatory agency to come away with the idea that we just try this or that and see what happens. Seems to me that, as professional practitioners of Chinese medicine, we have a very well structured, step-by-step prescriptive methodology of which we can be justifiably proud, if we use it. In other words, how can Doug or I know when to use Vagistatin as opposed to Clear Heat or Long Dan Xie Gan Tang as opposed to Gui Zhi Fu Ling Wan for the treatment of cervical dysplasia? Bob , " Colleen Morris " <colleen@d...> wrote: > Doug, > > I have had some good results with Vagistatin from Health Concerns for > HPV. You will also want to add a heat clearing formula - they recommend > Clear Heat, but you could use Long Dan Xie Gan Tang if the presentation > were correct. For some women this can be intense so you may need to > moderate with something like Reishi or Jiaogulan. Another formula to > consider is Gui Zhi Fu Ling Wan. > > Colleen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 15, 2002 Report Share Posted February 15, 2002 Colleen, Is it possible to share some cases using these formulas, listing the pattern diagnosis? Or do you just use disease diagnosis and prescribe formulas for that? When you suggest 'moderating with Reishi or Jiaogulan', I assume that has to do with the amount of cold or heat. . . but if you get the pattern correctly, you shouldn't have to use different prescriptions to 'balance' out the effects of other prescriptions. You should choose the prescription to treat the appropriate pattern, and then such 'balancing' shouldn't be necessary. On Friday, February 15, 2002, at 11:15 AM, Colleen Morris wrote: > Doug, > > I have had some good results with Vagistatin from Health Concerns for > HPV. You will also want to add a heat clearing formula - they recommend > Clear Heat, but you could use Long Dan Xie Gan Tang if the presentation > were correct. For some women this can be intense so you may need to > moderate with something like Reishi or Jiaogulan. Another formula to > consider is Gui Zhi Fu Ling Wan. > > Colleen > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 15, 2002 Report Share Posted February 15, 2002 Dear Group, I very much appreciate the pointed questions that Z'ev and Bob Flaws have been asking in regards to diagnosis and pattern differentiation. While these questions may cause some discomfort, they remind us that we need to be more diligent and less laissez-faire in our work. "A little of this and a little of that" is not a professional way for us to practice. We must take a distinct and judicious position on our patients' conditions, and strike out in a direction! Thank you. Julie Chambers - Friday, February 15, 2002 3:19 PM Re: Cervical dysplasia Colleen,Is it possible to share some cases using these formulas, listing the pattern diagnosis? Or do you just use disease diagnosis and prescribe formulas for that?When you suggest 'moderating with Reishi or Jiaogulan', I assume that has to do with the amount of cold or heat. . . but if you get the pattern correctly, you shouldn't have to use different prescriptions to 'balance' out the effects of other prescriptions. You should choose the prescription to treat the appropriate pattern, and then such 'balancing' shouldn't be necessary.On Friday, February 15, 2002, at 11:15 AM, Colleen Morris wrote: Doug,I have had some good results with Vagistatin from Health Concerns forHPV. You will also want to add a heat clearing formula - they recommendClear Heat, but you could use Long Dan Xie Gan Tang if the presentationwere correct. For some women this can be intense so you may need tomoderate with something like Reishi or Jiaogulan. Another formula toconsider is Gui Zhi Fu Ling Wan.Colleen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 16, 2002 Report Share Posted February 16, 2002 While these questions may cause some discomfort >>>>Julie why would these question cause discomfort? Alon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 16, 2002 Report Share Posted February 16, 2002 While these questions may cause some discomfort >>>>Julie why would these question cause discomfort? AlonChinese Herbal Medicine, a voluntary organization of licensed healthcare practitioners, matriculated students and postgraduate academics specializing in Chinese Herbal Medicine, provides a variety of professional services, including board approved online continuing education. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 20, 2002 Report Share Posted February 20, 2002 Colleen, Thank you for your in-depth response. It helped clarify your recommendations. Could you share the ingredients in Vagistatin ? I was unable to get an ingredient listing on the Health Concerns website. All the best, On Wednesday, February 20, 2002, at 04:20 PM, Colleen Morris wrote: > As a response to Z'ev Bob and Julie, there a few considerations I would > like to review. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 21, 2002 Report Share Posted February 21, 2002 , " Colleen Morris " <colleen@d...> wrote: > > There is a long-standing tradition both in old family styles and among > current highly respected practitioners from China regarding the use of > specifics. This is true whether it is a single herb or a formula. colleen I agree with you about this and defended you regarding what was implied in your post due to my knowledge of your background in the fiel. However, it is also customary and agreed upon by the group to furnish more details about a recommendation. In fact, many people on this list are students and novice practitioners. In addition, there is a great tendency in the field to practice in a disease oriented fashion and ignore patterns. I do not think this is true of members of this group, but it is an issue that many of us who have worked with students for many years are very sensitive to. While it is tedious to give all the details of a case, I think it is helpful to share at least briefly your thought process as you did in your last post regarding patterns and diseases. that is truly educational. I've learned the hard way that it is risky in email to assume something left unsaid is actually understood. That being said, I think there may an unnecessary tendency to assume that some members on this list are not cognizant of this issue. I actually moderate posts for up to several weeks when a member first joins. If someone does not actually have the qualifications to be here (like most laypeople), then they are removed. You all never get to see these posts if I do my job right. So I do agree that while we clearly do not all share the same opinion on many subjects, I think everyone who posts exhibits a certain basic allegiance to the vital importance of bian zheng (albeit while disagreeing on what this means or how to confirm it). While i would not toss someone just for this reason, I suspect those who do not rally around at least this one idea would not find this list enjoyable. So I do give the benefit of the doubt in most cases. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 19, 2007 Report Share Posted December 19, 2007 I thought I saved the thread on this. Could someone repeat that formula to treat this and by which company please? Also I found coverage by Lloyds of London for only $1080.00 a year. Hall-Conway-Jackson inc in Washington. 1800 877 8024. They are very helpful and responsive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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