Guest guest Posted October 17, 2007 Report Share Posted October 17, 2007 has anyone seen any research re. IVF babies? I wonder if they might be yang xu, due to the freezing process prior to insertion? or is that strictly theory that has no basis in reality? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 17, 2007 Report Share Posted October 17, 2007 Sami, While this is an area of CM that I am not too familiar with, it is really an interesting question. What I like best about your question is its basis in reality! Is it strictly theory? Or does it have basis in reality? What a fabulous question. Oh, would questions like yours be asked and applied universally to all dimensions of ! It seems like this Chinese medicine is powerful and useful. Let's all roll up our sleeves and drag it out of the middle ages with Sami's question whenever and wherever we can. EM Chinese Medicine , " Sami Rank LAc " <herbsnacupnxr wrote: > > has anyone seen any research re. IVF babies? I wonder if they might be > yang xu, due to the freezing process prior to insertion? or is that > strictly theory that has no basis in reality? > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 17, 2007 Report Share Posted October 17, 2007 Does anyone personally know or have experience with IVF babies who could comment on this? --- establishment_man <establishment_man wrote: > Sami, > > While this is an area of CM that I am not too > familiar with, it is > really an interesting question. > > What I like best about your question is its basis in > reality! Is it > strictly theory? Or does it have basis in reality? > What a fabulous > question. > > Oh, would questions like yours be asked and applied > universally to > all dimensions of ! > > It seems like this Chinese medicine is powerful and > useful. Let's > all roll up our sleeves and drag it out of the > middle ages with > Sami's question whenever and wherever we can. > > EM > > Chinese Medicine , > " Sami Rank LAc " > <herbsnacupnxr wrote: > > > > has anyone seen any research re. IVF babies? I > wonder if they > might be > > yang xu, due to the freezing process prior to > insertion? or is > that > > strictly theory that has no basis in reality? > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 17, 2007 Report Share Posted October 17, 2007 Would everybody who stays in south or north pole for a few days become yang deficient? Petra Buchanan <petrabuchanan wrote: Does anyone personally know or have experience with IVF babies who could comment on this? --- establishment_man <establishment_man wrote: > Sami, > > While this is an area of CM that I am not too > familiar with, it is > really an interesting question. > > What I like best about your question is its basis in > reality! Is it > strictly theory? Or does it have basis in reality? > What a fabulous > question. > > Oh, would questions like yours be asked and applied > universally to > all dimensions of ! > > It seems like this Chinese medicine is powerful and > useful. Let's > all roll up our sleeves and drag it out of the > middle ages with > Sami's question whenever and wherever we can. > > EM > > Chinese Medicine , > " Sami Rank LAc " > <herbsnacupnxr wrote: > > > > has anyone seen any research re. IVF babies? I > wonder if they > might be > > yang xu, due to the freezing process prior to > insertion? or is > that > > strictly theory that has no basis in reality? > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 17, 2007 Report Share Posted October 17, 2007 Have read a number of studies stating that IVF babies are more likely to have for example attention deficit hyperactivity disorder (something like 40%). (My own experience of IVF babies tends to confirm this.) Not sure how you can translate that in CM terms or if it is at all related to the conservation process or the hormones stimulation of the mother or that the parents of IVF children could tend to be older? I think it is difficult to separate the egg conservation process to all the often long term western treatments hormonal stimulation of IVF or any of the other factors involved in this. May On 17/10/07 21:34, " Petra Buchanan " <petrabuchanan wrote: > > > > > Does anyone personally know or have experience with > IVF babies who could comment on this? > --- establishment_man <establishment_man > <establishment_man%40> > > wrote: > >> > Sami, >> > >> > While this is an area of CM that I am not too >> > familiar with, it is >> > really an interesting question. >> > >> > What I like best about your question is its basis in >> > reality! Is it >> > strictly theory? Or does it have basis in reality? >> > What a fabulous >> > question. >> > >> > Oh, would questions like yours be asked and applied >> > universally to >> > all dimensions of ! >> > >> > It seems like this Chinese medicine is powerful and >> > useful. Let's >> > all roll up our sleeves and drag it out of the >> > middle ages with >> > Sami's question whenever and wherever we can. >> > >> > EM >> > >> > Chinese Medicine >> <Chinese Medicine%40> , >> > " Sami Rank LAc " >> > <herbsnacupnxr wrote: >>> > > >>> > > has anyone seen any research re. IVF babies? I >> > wonder if they >> > might be >>> > > yang xu, due to the freezing process prior to >> > insertion? or is >> > that >>> > > strictly theory that has no basis in reality? >>> > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 18, 2007 Report Share Posted October 18, 2007 Hi Samy, A sudden weather changes affected our bodies. If I were living in a warm area and were placed in a freezer in a few hours I think that my body would have a change, a drastic change. A change in Yang deficiency ???????? Who knows?? but I do know the chemicals in my body will react very quickly to counteract with the freezing environment. With time, my body will give up the fight, not strong enough to fight against its environment. THis will not only exhaust my Yang, but my YIn , Jing, spirit, shen, soul, or and hun. If one moves to an adversed place, all things can happen, but its serverity depends on how strong of that environment put pressure on his body. Nam Nguyen > > Would everybody who stays in south or north pole for a few days become yang deficient? > > Petra Buchanan <petrabuchanan wrote: > Does anyone personally know or have experience with > IVF babies who could comment on this? > --- establishment_man <establishment_man > wrote: > > > Sami, > > > > While this is an area of CM that I am not too > > familiar with, it is > > really an interesting question. > > > > What I like best about your question is its basis in > > reality! Is it > > strictly theory? Or does it have basis in reality? > > What a fabulous > > question. > > > > Oh, would questions like yours be asked and applied > > universally to > > all dimensions of ! > > > > It seems like this Chinese medicine is powerful and > > useful. Let's > > all roll up our sleeves and drag it out of the > > middle ages with > > Sami's question whenever and wherever we can. > > > > EM > > > > Chinese Medicine , > > " Sami Rank LAc " > > <herbsnacupnxr@> wrote: > > > > > > has anyone seen any research re. IVF babies? I > > wonder if they > > might be > > > yang xu, due to the freezing process prior to > > insertion? or is > > that > > > strictly theory that has no basis in reality? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 18, 2007 Report Share Posted October 18, 2007 Hi Samy, I think this is an interesting question, related to the issue of cryogenics. So far, to my knowledge, the technology for freezing people with the intent of later resuscitating them, has not been perfected. This technology has evolved for the purpose of " suspending " the lives of people with currently incurable diseases, so that at a later date, when a " cure " has been devised, they may be revived and resume their lives. A nice concept, but I don't know that anyone has volunteered for this experiment while still alive - and there's a reason for that... it doesn't work! However, it's not apparent to me why sperm and eggs can be frozen and later revived. I don't think this is analagous to spending a few days at one of our planet's poles - in that case, we would die quickly of exposure, without the protection of warm clothes, heat and shelter. Does the yang get damaged? I would think not only the yang, but also the jing, for in the case of eggs and sperm, we are dealing with the very essence of life. And if yang is damaged, how can the qi not also be damaged (do frozen sperm swim slower, for example, than non-frozen sperm)? I've been watching some nature shows lately which feature certain animals that can survive extreme weather changes - a fish that goes dormant for years that revives when sufficient water comes, and a frog that freezes solid in winter yet thaws unharmed when spring returns. Life is suspended for both of these creatures for long periods of time, just like for frozen eggs and sperm. In one case, the climate conditions are extremely yang, and the other, extremely yin. I don't know why these things are possible, but they are. Perhaps the only conclusion is that the brilliant simplicity of our germ cells (eggs and sperm) is what enables them to survive freezing and thawing without apparent harm. Yet I am not surprised to read that 40% of IVF babies have ADHD. I expect as more couples have IVF babies and there is more research, we will see in future years studies that reveal a host of health conditions that are more common in this population. I would look first at damage to the Kidney (governs the brain) in IVF kids with ADHD, possibly due to damage to kidney yang or qi from freezing sperm or ova. I'm not an expert on the subject, but it's an interesting topic to explore. Why do you ask it? In a different issue related to pregnancy, I myself have often wondered at what kind of damage we can find in babies who were born to Rh- mothers, in which the mother's immune system attempts to destroy the blood of the fetus, and whether such damage is permanent, or reversible after the baby is born and begins producing its own blood and antibodies. I know there is a vaccination to reverse this process, and I don't know how this works, but my hunch is that there is some residual damage even with the vaccination. I have no " proof " of this other than the experience of myself and my sisters; we are all Rh babies, and we all have struggled all our lives either with immune disorders (two of us) or failure to thrive or gain weight (one of us). In addition to 3 " healthy " births, my mother had 3 miscarriages due to this and had her last pregnancy aborted because, even with the vaccination, doctors told my mother that the risks of brain damage or mental retardation were very high. My youngest sister was a blue baby, and needed all of her blood transfused at birth. dr_namnguyen58 <dr_namnguyen58 wrote: Hi Samy, A sudden weather changes affected our bodies. If I were living in a warm area and were placed in a freezer in a few hours I think that my body would have a change, a drastic change. A change in Yang deficiency ???????? Who knows?? but I do know the chemicals in my body will react very quickly to counteract with the freezing environment. With time, my body will give up the fight, not strong enough to fight against its environment. THis will not only exhaust my Yang, but my YIn , Jing, spirit, shen, soul, or and hun. If one moves to an adversed place, all things can happen, but its serverity depends on how strong of that environment put pressure on his body. Nam Nguyen > > Would everybody who stays in south or north pole for a few days become yang deficient? > > Petra Buchanan wrote: > Does anyone personally know or have experience with > IVF babies who could comment on this? > --- establishment_man > wrote: > > > Sami, > > > > While this is an area of CM that I am not too > > familiar with, it is > > really an interesting question. > > > > What I like best about your question is its basis in > > reality! Is it > > strictly theory? Or does it have basis in reality? > > What a fabulous > > question. > > > > Oh, would questions like yours be asked and applied > > universally to > > all dimensions of ! > > > > It seems like this Chinese medicine is powerful and > > useful. Let's > > all roll up our sleeves and drag it out of the > > middle ages with > > Sami's question whenever and wherever we can. > > > > EM > > > > Chinese Medicine , > > " Sami Rank LAc " > > wrote: > > > > > > has anyone seen any research re. IVF babies? I > > wonder if they > > might be > > > yang xu, due to the freezing process prior to > > insertion? or is > > that > > > strictly theory that has no basis in reality? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 18, 2007 Report Share Posted October 18, 2007 in response to why I asked, the freezing process during IVF came up and I had never thought about it at that level until now. It just seems that freezing at that primal stage of life, when the kidneys and jing are most needing incubation, would have a detrimental affect on the health of that person. No polar expedition necessary. oh, Andrea, any insight into my quesion re. cigna? sami Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 21, 2007 Report Share Posted October 21, 2007 Coming into this late, but some issues arising from the RH- vaxs could also be attributed to the mercury/thineresol issue. Even to date the RH vaccine still contains mercury so could the vaccicnation cause further damage and/or be the actual cause of the issues? I know there is no answer, but I thought I'd throw it out there. Julie - Chinese Medicine Thursday, October 18, 2007 9:04 AM Re: Re: IVF babies Hi Samy, I think this is an interesting question, related to the issue of cryogenics. So far, to my knowledge, the technology for freezing people with the intent of later resuscitating them, has not been perfected. This technology has evolved for the purpose of " suspending " the lives of people with currently incurable diseases, so that at a later date, when a " cure " has been devised, they may be revived and resume their lives. A nice concept, but I don't know that anyone has volunteered for this experiment while still alive - and there's a reason for that... it doesn't work! However, it's not apparent to me why sperm and eggs can be frozen and later revived. I don't think this is analagous to spending a few days at one of our planet's poles - in that case, we would die quickly of exposure, without the protection of warm clothes, heat and shelter. Does the yang get damaged? I would think not only the yang, but also the jing, for in the case of eggs and sperm, we are dealing with the very essence of life. And if yang is damaged, how can the qi not also be damaged (do frozen sperm swim slower, for example, than non-frozen sperm)? I've been watching some nature shows lately which feature certain animals that can survive extreme weather changes - a fish that goes dormant for years that revives when sufficient water comes, and a frog that freezes solid in winter yet thaws unharmed when spring returns. Life is suspended for both of these creatures for long periods of time, just like for frozen eggs and sperm. In one case, the climate conditions are extremely yang, and the other, extremely yin. I don't know why these things are possible, but they are. Perhaps the only conclusion is that the brilliant simplicity of our germ cells (eggs and sperm) is what enables them to survive freezing and thawing without apparent harm. Yet I am not surprised to read that 40% of IVF babies have ADHD. I expect as more couples have IVF babies and there is more research, we will see in future years studies that reveal a host of health conditions that are more common in this population. I would look first at damage to the Kidney (governs the brain) in IVF kids with ADHD, possibly due to damage to kidney yang or qi from freezing sperm or ova. I'm not an expert on the subject, but it's an interesting topic to explore. Why do you ask it? In a different issue related to pregnancy, I myself have often wondered at what kind of damage we can find in babies who were born to Rh- mothers, in which the mother's immune system attempts to destroy the blood of the fetus, and whether such damage is permanent, or reversible after the baby is born and begins producing its own blood and antibodies. I know there is a vaccination to reverse this process, and I don't know how this works, but my hunch is that there is some residual damage even with the vaccination. I have no " proof " of this other than the experience of myself and my sisters; we are all Rh babies, and we all have struggled all our lives either with immune disorders (two of us) or failure to thrive or gain weight (one of us). In addition to 3 " healthy " births, my mother had 3 miscarriages due to this and had her last pregnancy aborted because, even with the vaccination, doctors told my mother that the risks of brain damage or mental retardation were very high. My youngest sister was a blue baby, and needed all of her blood transfused at birth. dr_namnguyen58 <dr_namnguyen58 wrote: Hi Samy, A sudden weather changes affected our bodies. If I were living in a warm area and were placed in a freezer in a few hours I think that my body would have a change, a drastic change. A change in Yang deficiency ???????? Who knows?? but I do know the chemicals in my body will react very quickly to counteract with the freezing environment. With time, my body will give up the fight, not strong enough to fight against its environment. THis will not only exhaust my Yang, but my YIn , Jing, spirit, shen, soul, or and hun. If one moves to an adversed place, all things can happen, but its serverity depends on how strong of that environment put pressure on his body. Nam Nguyen > > Would everybody who stays in south or north pole for a few days become yang deficient? > > Petra Buchanan wrote: > Does anyone personally know or have experience with > IVF babies who could comment on this? > --- establishment_man > wrote: > > > Sami, > > > > While this is an area of CM that I am not too > > familiar with, it is > > really an interesting question. > > > > What I like best about your question is its basis in > > reality! Is it > > strictly theory? Or does it have basis in reality? > > What a fabulous > > question. > > > > Oh, would questions like yours be asked and applied > > universally to > > all dimensions of ! > > > > It seems like this Chinese medicine is powerful and > > useful. Let's > > all roll up our sleeves and drag it out of the > > middle ages with > > Sami's question whenever and wherever we can. > > > > EM > > > > Chinese Medicine , > > " Sami Rank LAc " > > wrote: > > > > > > has anyone seen any research re. IVF babies? I > > wonder if they > > might be > > > yang xu, due to the freezing process prior to > > insertion? or is > > that > > > strictly theory that has no basis in reality? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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