The Communist Manifesto and who rides high on the hog

[Guest guest]

Hi Richard, Ben, Emmanuel & All,

 

Richard wrote:

> Ben It is very relevant to these discussions on slavery etc. To avoid

> belaboring the details look it up. At root it has to do with money and

> who is not allowed to have their own cash register. Richard

 

Richard, that is my point, exactly. The war is really not about the efficacy of

WM vs CAM (including TCM). It is about who " rides high on the hog " , i.e.

about the CONTROL of money and status (political and social authority).

 

Changing the metaphor from pigs to horses, at present in most western

societies, big Pharma, the hospital industry, the medical profession and

senior academics in conventional universities are in the saddle. They will

NOT be unhorsed (leave the saddle) without being knocked off, or having

their horse hamstrung or shot out from under them. That will be a bitter and

bloody war, with heavy casualties on both sides.

 

I respect the courage and training of professional soldiers, and recognise

the need for national armies, but I am not one of them, and never will be. I

do not wish to kill or injure anyone but war carries that inevitable reality as

there is good in G_d and evil in D___l.

 

I have no wish to join that war, except quietly, in the background, trying to

foster a holistic / integrative mentality in my friends, neighbours and clients,

and in any conventional medical / paramedical professional (vet, medic,

physio, nurse, life-science researcher) who will listen.

 

There is a saying that " nothing is more powerful than an idea that has

reached its time " . The time for major change in national healthcare will not

be ripe until a huge proportion of the PUBLIC demand such change -

demand FREEDOM of CHOICE in healthcare - from their political leaders.

 

That will be, maybe, on the second- or third- next recycle of my soul / shen!

 

Sorry for being a party-pooper on this, but waiting more than 30 years for an

invitation to teach basic acupuncture (for free) to the students in the Dublin

Vet School has altered my view of the timescale before the establishment

will let " outsiders " through its doors, even if the " outsider " graduated from

WITHIN those doors!

 

Best regards,

 

[Guest guest]

wrote:

Sorry for being a party-pooper on this, but waiting more than 30 years for an

invitation to teach basic acupuncture (for free) to the students in the Dublin

Vet School has altered my view of the timescale before the establishment

will let " outsiders " through its doors, even if the " outsider " graduated from

WITHIN those doors!

____________________

 

Phil,

 

This is the part of your post that makes the most sense to me ... time scale.

I, too, am from the inside of castle ... adding teaching elements from outside

that realm. Time also has meaning for me with regard to practices and

procedures ... and their accumulated effects. There was the time when the

Internet and email was only and exclusively for us geeks. Then ten years later

in the 1990s it was for everyone. Currently Chinese medicine is being practiced

by CM medical students at some clinical floors at University of California San

Francisco Medical School. They started out seeing stroke patients and are

working into other areas in the acute care setting. There is an introductory

Chinese medicine curriculum for undergraduate students at San Francisco State

University and has been for over a decade. Univ. of Cal. San Francisco medical

students are also going to classes and clinics from time to time at American

College of TCM. I find that interesting, too.

 

I believe that I will live long enough to see CM become available in many or

most clinical settings. Sorry to break the news that in general the CM students

at the American CM schools are not the sharpest or highest caliber students ...

though a few very much are. People who have been selected for American MD

programs and have acquired MDs are in fact high caliber students. I've been

involved in both programs, and I can see orders of magnitude differences. If

MDs dedicate significant time to their studies and utilize their access to acute

care, everyone in our culture will have much greater access to CM than could

otherwise be the case. My MD classmates understand what it means to " dedicate

significant time " and effort and have far more capacity to do so than anyone

that I know of outside of their cohort.

 

As you note, Phil. Everyone who practices has to start somewhere. It's not so

terrible to " start " with an MD. I'll wager that Dr. Tice who recently posted

here will make a fine clinician. She is an MD who is willing to dedicate

significant time. CM is indeed seeping into our culture ... at more than

superficial levels.

 

Hugo, I have no argument with your perspective at all. Nor with Richard's. If

you recall I consider your perspectives to be necessary and appropriate.

Perhaps you missed that part. When I say I won't get in the way of CM, I mean I

won't put my personal politics or my personal expectations regarding what CM

should look like in the way of CM's expression in my culture. The way in which

CM will come into America will of course have an effect on the money in my

wallet. I won't let that stop me from cheering when CM crosses yet another

threshold.

 

Respectfully and gratefully,

Emmanuel Segmen

 

 

[Guest guest]

Emmanuel

 

In 1998 when I joined the Florida CM legislative Committee later to become

the Chair, I was asked by the long time lobbyist of the association.... " what

vision I had for the profession " . Being a novice at how the megalo-consortium

works, I gave a short positive scenario. The response from the lobbyist was

that it was very nice but it would take 20 years or more. And I responded -

watch it happen in 2 years. And so it did. Of course I realize now that the

megalo-consortium has its own monetary interests in allowing something to take

place and then later taking it away. I am in no way fooled into thinking that

I had anything to do with the advance of the CM profession in Florida nor its

erosion which is now talking place. When a stand-alone legislative bill

expanding the scope of practice for Florida licensees took place in 1986

(making

it primary care) and then again in 1999-2001 (other advancements) and the

legislature passed those bills 100% it can not be chalked up to great activism

by hard working licensees who talked to all the legislators.

 

The megalo-consortium will do whatever it wants whenever it wants with CM.

If it wants " ists " to use needles etc. then that is what will happen. If it

wants MDs with 100 hrs or no training to oversee medical assistants without any

training...then that is what will happen. But one thing for sure.......the

days of the independent cash register is being eroded and yes....as we speak

the money in CM practitioner's wallet is already being effected.

 

Richard

 

In a message dated 10/18/2007 1:33:38 A.M. Central Standard Time,

susegmen writes:

 

Phil,

 

This is the part of your post that makes the most sense to me ... time

scale. I, too, am from the inside of castle ... adding teaching elements from

outside that realm. Time also has meaning for me with regard to practices and

procedures ... and their accumulated effects. There was the time when the

Internet and email was only and exclusively for us geeks. Then ten years later

in

the 1990s it was for everyone. Currently Chinese medicine is being practiced

by CM medical students at some clinical floors at University of California San

Francisco Medical School. They started out seeing stroke patients and are

working into other areas in the acute care setting. There is an introductory

Chinese medicine curriculum for undergraduate students at San Francisco State

University and has been for over a decade. Univ. of Cal. San Francisco medical

students are also going to classes and clinics from time to time at American

College of TCM. I find that interesting, too.

 

I believe that I will live long enough to see CM become available in many or

most clinical settings. Sorry to break the news that in general the CM

students at the American CM schools are not the sharpest or highest caliber

students ... though a few very much are. People who have been selected for

American MD programs and have acquired MDs are in fact high caliber students.

I've

been involved in both programs, and I can see orders of magnitude differences.

If MDs dedicate significant time to their studies and utilize their access

to acute care, everyone in our culture will have much greater access to CM

than could otherwise be the case. My MD classmates understand what it means to

" dedicate significant time " and effort and have far more capacity to do so

than anyone that I know of outside of their cohort.

 

As you note, Phil. Everyone who practices has to start somewhere. It's not

so terrible to " start " with an MD. I'll wager that Dr. Tice who recently

posted here will make a fine clinician. She is an MD who is willing to dedicate

significant time. CM is indeed seeping into our culture ... at more than

superficial levels.

 

Hugo, I have no argument with your perspective at all. Nor with Richard's.

If you recall I consider your perspectives to be necessary and appropriate.

Perhaps you missed that part. When I say I won't get in the way of CM, I mean I

won't put my personal politics or my personal expectations regarding what CM

should look like in the way of CM's expression in my culture. The way in

which CM will come into America will of course have an effect on the money in

my

wallet. I won't let that stop me from cheering when CM crosses yet another

threshold.

 

Respectfully and gratefully,

Emmanuel Segmen

 

 

 

 

 

 

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[Guest guest]

Hi Emmanuel:

 

" It's not so terrible to " start " with an MD. "

 

I agree it's not so terrible. One caveat...a colleague of mine who trained in

TCM in China, came to Canada, earned his PhD in human nutrition, and currently

does western research into " natural " compounds at a university medical centre,

said to me, " if you're going to learn TCM deep, you better start with TCM " .

Where we put our roots greatly defines who we will be.

 

" Hugo, I have no argument with your perspective at all. Nor with

Richard's. If you recall I consider your perspectives to be necessary

and appropriate. Perhaps you missed that part. When I say I won't get

in the way of CM, I mean I won't put my personal politics or my

personal expectations regarding what CM should look like in the way of

CM's expression in my culture. The way in which CM will come into

America will of course have an effect on the money in my wallet. I

won't let that stop me from cheering when CM crosses yet another

threshold. "

 

I have no recollection taking much issue with anything you wrote, sorry if I am

coming across that way. I am just writing excitedly, that's all.

 

Hugo

 

 

 

 

 

_________

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