AGAIN IN YANG , not YIN and YANG.

October 9, 2007

Dear all colleagues,

I am writing this thought and wish that we all TCM look again

deeply into YANG and understand it thoroughly from here we can create

all things.

The Life Force ( Yang )

We, TCM, are perceiving the life force is Yin-Yang, but I view Yang is

the only life force.

YANG ( the sun, the energy, the heat, the movements of up and

down, in and out, the growth, the development, the production

–generation, the life force, the expansion, spreading … )…….. WHAT

ABOUT YIN ???

YIN ( the materials, the 112 known elements today ) possesses all

kinds of Yang energies: consolidation, combination, nourishment,

shrinkage, holding, maintaining, quieting, coldness )

YANG is more important, so I stick my noses and my eyes into this.

Without YANG, there is darkness. With this darkness, YIN materials or

elements do not see and do not know what they are doing. Probably, in

their nature, they are wishing to hold themselves together one-to-one

very tight without loosen up and wait until there is some light ( Yang

) they will continue their activities….. More YANG will separate them

and activate them. They, YIN, will perform their jobs properly with

YANG appearance. In this case, I think , when there is no YANG , YIN

does not means a thing because there is no activities in nature.

In life, if there is a little YANG , its means there is life and

there is hope. No YANG is no hope and there is no life.

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

YANG in universe is never lack or changed such as the sun ( in full

form ), but YIN is up and down in its form such as the moon( growth

and ends, from small - to full- to small )

YANG on earth is changed because its earth is rotating ( hot and

cold orbiting around the sun ). The rotating of the earth is causing

the changes of life, the changes of the activities of natures and all

of their forms because of its moving.

YANG in man or animals or in living things are limited ( in a

confined forms ). Their lives must be limited. Within this limit, YANG

may help its YINs get together and perform their functions.When YANG

declines or disappears, life will follow.

If we understand and spend much more time to imagine about YANG, we

may draw astronomical forms and the activities of all things in

certain ways. The outcomes can be predicted…

PRODUCTION ( LIFE-BORN ) or NEW LIFE :

If we do not look into YANG ( the production, the DNA & RNA,

development, the growth and the generation of changes, the formation

of all materials ), where should we look into ???

The POSTNATAL ( the earth, the elements …) ??? Before the formation of

things, Yang must be existed and growthed ! The earth nourishes the

materials later. For newlife, this is not a place to look into.

REMEMBER : all things are created either in forms of solid,

liquid, or gas, they are YANG in the first place !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Why do I ignore YIN ??????? Yin is the reference of YANG. Look at

YIN we must know and understand it is a form of all YANG created.

However, If we understood YIN and its metaphors with time, we also

understood YANG. In treatment, YANG is the start, in my point !

PLEASE CORRECT ME IF I AM WRONG OR IF I AM MISSING SOME POINTS.

Thanks,

Nam Nguyen.

P.S I heard some people asked me " Which one comes first, an egg or

a chicken ? "

I responded :

" An egg comes first. For I see that egg becomes a chicken at the

time I see and understood. "

" A chicken comes first because at the time I see a chicken lays eggs

and eggs become chickens " ………. So, in this case TIME is essential,

and time is YANG. The YIN, material does mean nothing. If there is no

YANG, YIN not existed, no discussion. YIN can be seen and can be

argued endlessly, for YIN is a production of YANG and have all kinds

of figures and all kinds of arguments and there is no truth. The same

in HEALTH, we see some forms of illnesses and have all kinds of points

and analysis and arguments, but forgetting to go deeper into YANG, the

answers varied from time to time. I think this is not an appropriate

approach.

GOOD LUCK TO ALL.

October 10, 2007

Hi Nam,

This is essentially what Zhang Jie Bing says in his " Da Bao Lun "

(å¼ ä»‹å…µï¼Œã€Šå¤§å®è®ºã€‹), supposedly as a response to Zhu Dan Xi's " Yang

you yu,

yin bu zu lun " (ã€Šé˜³æœ‰ä½™é˜´ä¸è¶³è®ºã€‹ï¼‰ã€‚ Have you read it before?

Best,

Greg

AGAIN IN YANG , not YIN and YANG.

Posted by: " dr_namnguyen58 " dr_namnguyen58

dr_namnguyen58

Tue Oct 9, 2007 12:17 pm (PST)

Dear all colleagues,

I am writing this thought and wish that we all TCM look again

deeply into YANG and understand it thoroughly from here we can create

all things.

The Life Force ( Yang )

We, TCM, are perceiving the life force is Yin-Yang, but I view Yang is

the only life force.

YANG ( the sun, the energy, the heat, the movements of up and

down, in and out, the growth, the development, the production

Â–generation, the life force, the expansion, spreading Â… )Â…Â….. WHAT

ABOUT YIN ???

YIN ( the materials, the 112 known elements today ) possesses all

kinds of Yang energies: consolidation, combination, nourishment,

shrinkage, holding, maintaining, quieting, coldness )

YANG is more important, so I stick my noses and my eyes into this.

Without YANG, there is darkness. With this darkness, YIN materials or

elements do not see and do not know what they are doing. Probably, in

their nature, they are wishing to hold themselves together one-to-one

very tight without loosen up and wait until there is some light ( Yang

) they will continue their activitiesÂ….. More YANG will separate them

and activate them. They, YIN, will perform their jobs properly with

YANG appearance. In this case, I think , when there is no YANG , YIN

does not means a thing because there is no activities in nature.

In life, if there is a little YANG , its means there is life and

there is hope. No YANG is no hope and there is no life.

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

YANG in universe is never lack or changed such as the sun ( in full

form ), but YIN is up and down in its form such as the moon( growth

and ends, from small - to full- to small )

YANG on earth is changed because its earth is rotating ( hot and

cold orbiting around the sun ). The rotating of the earth is causing

the changes of life, the changes of the activities of natures and all

of their forms because of its moving.

YANG in man or animals or in living things are limited ( in a

confined forms ). Their lives must be limited. Within this limit, YANG

may help its YINs get together and perform their functions.When YANG

declines or disappears, life will follow.

If we understand and spend much more time to imagine about YANG, we

may draw astronomical forms and the activities of all things in

certain ways. The outcomes can be predictedÂ…

PRODUCTION ( LIFE-BORN ) or NEW LIFE :

If we do not look into YANG ( the production, the DNA & RNA,

development, the growth and the generation of changes, the formation

of all materials ), where should we look into ???

The POSTNATAL ( the earth, the elements Â…) ??? Before the formation of

things, Yang must be existed and growthed ! The earth nourishes the

materials later. For newlife, this is not a place to look into.

REMEMBER : all things are created either in forms of solid,

liquid, or gas, they are YANG in the first place !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Why do I ignore YIN ??????? Yin is the reference of YANG. Look at

YIN we must know and understand it is a form of all YANG created.

However, If we understood YIN and its metaphors with time, we also

understood YANG. In treatment, YANG is the start, in my point !

PLEASE CORRECT ME IF I AM WRONG OR IF I AM MISSING SOME POINTS.

Thanks,

Nam Nguyen.

P.S I heard some people asked me " Which one comes first, an egg or

a chicken ? "

I responded :

" An egg comes first. For I see that egg becomes a chicken at the

time I see and understood. "

" A chicken comes first because at the time I see a chicken lays eggs

and eggs become chickens " Â…Â…Â…. So, in this case TIME is essential,

and time is YANG. The YIN, material does mean nothing. If there is no

YANG, YIN not existed, no discussion. YIN can be seen and can be

argued endlessly, for YIN is a production of YANG and have all kinds

of figures and all kinds of arguments and there is no truth. The same

in HEALTH, we see some forms of illnesses and have all kinds of points

and analysis and arguments, but forgetting to go deeper into YANG, the

answers varied from time to time. I think this is not an appropriate

approach.

GOOD LUCK TO ALL.

--

Vote in the National Cheney Impeachment Poll

http://www.usalone.com/blogvoices.php?Cheney%20Impeachment%3F

Add this text to your own email and blog signatures!

Greg A. Livingston, PhD(candidate), L.Ac.

PR China, 310002

Zhejiang Province, Hangzhou

Si Tiao Xiang 23, #602

mobile: 86-571-8171-2217

http://www.myspace.com/doclivy

October 10, 2007

Both yin and yang are necessary, you say life force is yang? that's

true, but yin is also life force, or do you consider existence without

both male and female of every species? would life be possible if the

sun only shone in one side of the planet? what would happen to the

sunny part after only a couple of days of non-stop sun at 30º Celsius?

what would happen to the dark side? if yin were not life force, why is

sleep necessary to heal ourselves? why do we grow when we sleep? if

yin were not life force, why pant on the soil or why do women carry

babies? if everything were yang, it would have no physical form, we

now THAT is necessary for life... too much yin and everything gets too

condensed...

Now let's see, what happens if there is a dominance of yang? things

rise: temperature, emotions, cycles (isn't that what is happening to

our planet? isn't that why every year is hotter that the previous one,

why polar ice caps are melting? why there are so many wars?) society

is faster, more demanding, more and more money is necessary, thus more

and more work, resulting in a number of imbalances such ranging from

stress related issues to hart attacks or wind strokes...i don't see

how that can be very healthy...

If yin dominates, then everything turns slow, would fruits ripe?,

would plants grow fast enough and become green? everything would be

too viscous it would be a lot harder to breathe and move around.

people would suffer from damp cold related issues, cancer, fibromas,

cysts, obesity, simply too cold and too slow.

life force is only one, life force is the combination of yin and yang,

just get a pakua and spin it, you will see how the black and white

fuse and a small dot will appear in the middle, in the axis, this is

life force and it has been theorized on since the beginning of ages,

resulting in yin and yang in the chinese, but it is not two, but one

with polarities that need to stay in balance in order to have life

(yin yang, day night, adam eve, whatever you want to call it). I

believe that seeing two forces is a mistake resulting from our square

society, from the misunderstanding of the ancient texts, from the

translations of misunderstood teachings, from our basic egos and minds

trying to rationalize everything...

well, that is just me, my opinion

Juan

October 10, 2007

HI Greg,

I am sorry I had never heard of Da Bao LUn and Zhang Jie Bing before

you mentioned it and I would like to know where to get this book so I

can read further. I may find some interesting points.

THanks Greg

Nam Nguyen

Chinese Medicine , " Greg Livingston "

<drlivingston wrote:

>

> Hi Nam,

>

> This is essentially what Zhang Jie Bing says in his " Da Bao Lun "

> (å¼ ä»‹å…µï¼Œã€Šå¤§å®è®ºã€‹), supposedly as a response to Zhu Dan

Xi's " Yang you yu,

> yin bu zu lun " (ã€Šé˜³æœ‰ä½™é˜´ä¸è¶³è®ºã€‹ï¼‰ã€‚ Have you read it

before?

>

> Best,

> Greg

>

> AGAIN IN YANG , not YIN and YANG.

> Posted by: " dr_namnguyen58 " dr_namnguyen58

> dr_namnguyen58

> Tue Oct 9, 2007 12:17 pm (PST)

> Dear all colleagues,

> I am writing this thought and wish that we all TCM look again

> deeply into YANG and understand it thoroughly from here we can create

> all things.

>

> The Life Force ( Yang )

> We, TCM, are perceiving the life force is Yin-Yang, but I view Yang is

> the only life force.

> YANG ( the sun, the energy, the heat, the movements of up and

> down, in and out, the growth, the development, the production

> Â–generation, the life force, the expansion, spreading Â… )Â…Â….. WHAT

> ABOUT YIN ???

> YIN ( the materials, the 112 known elements today ) possesses all

> kinds of Yang energies: consolidation, combination, nourishment,

> shrinkage, holding, maintaining, quieting, coldness )

> YANG is more important, so I stick my noses and my eyes into this.

> Without YANG, there is darkness. With this darkness, YIN materials or

> elements do not see and do not know what they are doing. Probably, in

> their nature, they are wishing to hold themselves together one-to-one

> very tight without loosen up and wait until there is some light ( Yang

> ) they will continue their activitiesÂ….. More YANG will separate them

> and activate them. They, YIN, will perform their jobs properly with

> YANG appearance. In this case, I think , when there is no YANG , YIN

> does not means a thing because there is no activities in nature.

> In life, if there is a little YANG , its means there is life and

> there is hope. No YANG is no hope and there is no life.

> !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

> YANG in universe is never lack or changed such as the sun ( in full

> form ), but YIN is up and down in its form such as the moon( growth

> and ends, from small - to full- to small )

> YANG on earth is changed because its earth is rotating ( hot and

> cold orbiting around the sun ). The rotating of the earth is causing

> the changes of life, the changes of the activities of natures and all

> of their forms because of its moving.

> YANG in man or animals or in living things are limited ( in a

> confined forms ). Their lives must be limited. Within this limit, YANG

> may help its YINs get together and perform their functions.When YANG

> declines or disappears, life will follow.

> If we understand and spend much more time to imagine about YANG, we

> may draw astronomical forms and the activities of all things in

> certain ways. The outcomes can be predictedÂ…

> PRODUCTION ( LIFE-BORN ) or NEW LIFE :

> If we do not look into YANG ( the production, the DNA & RNA,

> development, the growth and the generation of changes, the formation

> of all materials ), where should we look into ???

> The POSTNATAL ( the earth, the elements Â…) ??? Before the formation of

> things, Yang must be existed and growthed ! The earth nourishes the

> materials later. For newlife, this is not a place to look into.

> REMEMBER : all things are created either in forms of solid,

> liquid, or gas, they are YANG in the first place !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

> Why do I ignore YIN ??????? Yin is the reference of YANG. Look at

> YIN we must know and understand it is a form of all YANG created.

> However, If we understood YIN and its metaphors with time, we also

> understood YANG. In treatment, YANG is the start, in my point !

> PLEASE CORRECT ME IF I AM WRONG OR IF I AM MISSING SOME POINTS.

>

> Thanks,

> Nam Nguyen.

>

> P.S I heard some people asked me " Which one comes first, an egg or

> a chicken ? "

> I responded :

> " An egg comes first. For I see that egg becomes a chicken at the

> time I see and understood. "

> " A chicken comes first because at the time I see a chicken lays eggs

> and eggs become chickens " Â…Â…Â…. So, in this case TIME is essential,

> and time is YANG. The YIN, material does mean nothing. If there is no

> YANG, YIN not existed, no discussion. YIN can be seen and can be

> argued endlessly, for YIN is a production of YANG and have all kinds

> of figures and all kinds of arguments and there is no truth. The same

> in HEALTH, we see some forms of illnesses and have all kinds of points

> and analysis and arguments, but forgetting to go deeper into YANG, the

> answers varied from time to time. I think this is not an appropriate

> approach.

>

> GOOD LUCK TO ALL.

>

> --

> Vote in the National Cheney Impeachment Poll

> http://www.usalone.com/blogvoices.php?Cheney%20Impeachment%3F

> Add this text to your own email and blog signatures!

>

> Greg A. Livingston, PhD(candidate), L.Ac.

> PR China, 310002

> Zhejiang Province, Hangzhou

> Si Tiao Xiang 23, #602

> mobile: 86-571-8171-2217

> http://www.myspace.com/doclivy

>

October 10, 2007

Hi Juan,

You have a keen knowlege and analysis in Yin-Yang I must believe

this. Everything you stated is an old theory. Let's do the math

together and come up with a new one and make it easier. I am a lone is

not perfect. Beside, this is a very tough matter and it is a new

theory based on its old.

Somehow, I think Yin-Yang in nature without forms or without a

living thing does not mean a thing. In nature we have known today

there are 112 elements. They are atoms, cannot be seen by normal

eye-sight. THey have forms with full life-force. They are in 3

structures ( Neutron and protons in nucleus, and electrons orbiting

around nucleus )... Electrons are negative force but moving as

exhibiting its life-force ( yang ). Protons (Yang ) and neutrons (

neutral ) are holding or bonding so tightly together as ( Yin property

). Such micro-things possess Yang such as in macro-biological life.

The moving is important, also as the holding or bonding power. If the

holding power is gone, the electrons are free to go, so as the

separation of neutrons and protons............ So what is important

here ????????????? Nothing is counted I believe. Yin and Yang in this

case does not mean a thing, I assume.

Yin-Yang are nouns. We named things as Yin and Yang because we want

to show the relation of the differences. If there is one , there must

be another......... It does not mean in opposite. Not everything will

be in opposite, but have some differences. Everything does not have to

counter nor against each other, but exist in harmony, working together

to produce prosperous and wonderful life.

We are comparing the life and dead, the formation, development and

the destroying with the existence of things in universe... All of

these happen because of energies ( life-forces ). As in atoms if

neutrons and protons are getting together ( bonding ), there creates a

life. Electrons will come and orbitting around it neucleus (

protecting or preserving a life... who knows ? ).

In our human body, the energy comes and goes and transform into

muti-forms in solid, liquid and gas. These forms will produce and

preserve life. The body becomes strong or weak because of their

bondings, not of encountering nor harming each other, I think. In each

form they will do their tasks differently. Some build the body

structures ( tissues, organs, fluids, blood, jing.... ) you can name

them whatever you want. a Few form the nervous system ( the chemical

or electrical paths ). Others from the Shen ( the intelligence ).

We observe things and recognize their changes of forms through

energy in time........... Why don't we spend more time in observing

the process of changes and why it a thing is in constant change ?

A good beautful material is being heated under a substantial amount of

heat will change its form or will be disappeared....... In this case,

the Yin is important or Yang ? Eventhough if it is submerged in a

acid, will it retain its form ??????????

Yin-yang means nothing to me if it is not harmonizing within my

body and it is also meaningless if it is outside of my body. My body

captures yin-yang just as and atom capture and hold its neutrons and

protons together, tightly in harmony. If protons and neutrons are

fighting each other to get a better place in a neucleus, an atom will

not exist. A lot of Yin in my body will cause only sickness, illness

or disease if it does not show its Yang property. It must be at work

at all times to make me feel strong as steel. As I state, we see

things in Yin, but actually it is in Yang, for all Yang all things are

created, not Yin.......... Yin is a subname " subtitle of Yang "

ANYBODY WHO HAS GOOD VISION OR GOOD VERBALIZATION please help me

more in this.............

What I want all TCM to focus ...... We we focus we look at only

one thing and expand it from there. We look at the root of all changes

.. If we can draw, we can draw billions of things. THe key is draw, not

of things.

Thanks Juan ! I hope this will give you another view and you may

help me and or other TCm to develop further in our YANG environment.

Nam Nguyen

- In Chinese Medicine , " juantovarm "

<aramis1971 wrote:

>

> Both yin and yang are necessary, you say life force is yang? that's

> true, but yin is also life force, or do you consider existence without

> both male and female of every species? would life be possible if the

> sun only shone in one side of the planet? what would happen to the

> sunny part after only a couple of days of non-stop sun at 30º Celsius?

> what would happen to the dark side? if yin were not life force, why is

> sleep necessary to heal ourselves? why do we grow when we sleep? if

> yin were not life force, why pant on the soil or why do women carry

> babies? if everything were yang, it would have no physical form, we

> now THAT is necessary for life... too much yin and everything gets too

> condensed...

>

> Now let's see, what happens if there is a dominance of yang? things

> rise: temperature, emotions, cycles (isn't that what is happening to

> our planet? isn't that why every year is hotter that the previous one,

> why polar ice caps are melting? why there are so many wars?) society

> is faster, more demanding, more and more money is necessary, thus more

> and more work, resulting in a number of imbalances such ranging from

> stress related issues to hart attacks or wind strokes...i don't see

> how that can be very healthy...

>

> If yin dominates, then everything turns slow, would fruits ripe?,

> would plants grow fast enough and become green? everything would be

> too viscous it would be a lot harder to breathe and move around.

> people would suffer from damp cold related issues, cancer, fibromas,

> cysts, obesity, simply too cold and too slow.

>

> life force is only one, life force is the combination of yin and yang,

> just get a pakua and spin it, you will see how the black and white

> fuse and a small dot will appear in the middle, in the axis, this is

> life force and it has been theorized on since the beginning of ages,

> resulting in yin and yang in the chinese, but it is not two, but one

> with polarities that need to stay in balance in order to have life

> (yin yang, day night, adam eve, whatever you want to call it). I

> believe that seeing two forces is a mistake resulting from our square

> society, from the misunderstanding of the ancient texts, from the

> translations of misunderstood teachings, from our basic egos and minds

> trying to rationalize everything...

>

> well, that is just me, my opinion

>

> Juan

>

October 10, 2007

Dear Dr Nam,

Firstly I would like to thank you for your input on eye to eye. I

hope it can help the patient.

I really admire your adaptation of reasoning on all aspects of TCM,

especially your ideas on combining modern science with traditional

theories. it seems to me the more we can compound the two schools of

thought without bastardising one or the other then the more true and

helpful our medicine can become. However, i dont think i can agree

with your reasoning on Yin and Yang. If we begin to understand

Yin-Yang in a new way that is one thing, but to re-create yin yang is

another. Al things will move forward with our race and evolution but

if, simply through intelligence we alter this fundamental principle of

TCM, we revert to the chaos from where it came. Indeed from chaos

onward they seperated but only to the point of polarising one another,

they can never be understood or have meaning as individuals.

Daoists were the first to treatise on Yin Yang and they were very

clear in stating how it came about and where it came from. Most

importantly for me as a TCM Dr, they also showed how we can experience

them best and observe them. Like you, i love the beauty of TCM and

how we can over come any struggles it provides, simply by observing

nature.

The absolute core of TCM expounds without a shadow of doubt that

Yin Yang are and must be equal for Dao to run its course, Dao can not

not run it as course so they must be equal. if they are not then we

will see it's manifestations through disharmony. Dao also stipulates

that sickness and ailments of ourselves and the earth are due to the

deviation of man not heaven. Man is the meeting place of heaven/earth

yin/yang, it is not one or the other.

Yin can not be seen as more important or more useful than yang nor

vice versa. They are one unit and no matter what intelligence or

reasoning we apply it serves no purpose to prove otherwise even if we

can do so. We must be careful with all our knowledge of making the

theory fit the fact or the fact fit the theory. Indeed through the

constant breaking down of already known theories and looking more and

more closely at the smaller things is exactly how allopathic medicine

has gotten to where it is today and it is still trying to put them

back together. Let's not go down that road. We have been given a

beautiful gift that already works as we understand it and as it has

been stipulated.

If however, we suppose you are right in your observations what

benefit has this brought to TCM practice? I know i still will be

aiming to balance the Yin Yang in the body and strengthen the Qi.

One other thing, as huam being i guess we can only ever see one

small part of anything. My teacher used to say TCM is like wearing a

blind fold and touching a huge elephant. You can only ever feel one

bit at a time and it is so vast to get an idea of the whole picture is

very hard. I believe also though, with each of us groping in the dark

is the way forward. I am sure we can come up with some interesting stuff.

I would be really wrong here but i look forward to someone else's

reply. I am sure this will be a long post!

Many thanks, Dan

" One births two, two births three and three births the ten thousand

things. "

Chinese Medicine , " dr_namnguyen58 "

<dr_namnguyen58 wrote:

>

> Hi Juan,

> You have a keen knowlege and analysis in Yin-Yang I must believe

> this. Everything you stated is an old theory. Let's do the math

> together and come up with a new one and make it easier. I am a lone is

> not perfect. Beside, this is a very tough matter and it is a new

> theory based on its old.

> Somehow, I think Yin-Yang in nature without forms or without a

> living thing does not mean a thing. In nature we have known today

> there are 112 elements. They are atoms, cannot be seen by normal

> eye-sight. THey have forms with full life-force. They are in 3

> structures ( Neutron and protons in nucleus, and electrons orbiting

> around nucleus )... Electrons are negative force but moving as

> exhibiting its life-force ( yang ). Protons (Yang ) and neutrons (

> neutral ) are holding or bonding so tightly together as ( Yin property

> ). Such micro-things possess Yang such as in macro-biological life.

> The moving is important, also as the holding or bonding power. If the

> holding power is gone, the electrons are free to go, so as the

> separation of neutrons and protons............ So what is important

> here ????????????? Nothing is counted I believe. Yin and Yang in this

> case does not mean a thing, I assume.

> Yin-Yang are nouns. We named things as Yin and Yang because we want

> to show the relation of the differences. If there is one , there must

> be another......... It does not mean in opposite. Not everything will

> be in opposite, but have some differences. Everything does not have to

> counter nor against each other, but exist in harmony, working together

> to produce prosperous and wonderful life.

> We are comparing the life and dead, the formation, development and

> the destroying with the existence of things in universe... All of

> these happen because of energies ( life-forces ). As in atoms if

> neutrons and protons are getting together ( bonding ), there creates a

> life. Electrons will come and orbitting around it neucleus (

> protecting or preserving a life... who knows ? ).

> In our human body, the energy comes and goes and transform into

> muti-forms in solid, liquid and gas. These forms will produce and

> preserve life. The body becomes strong or weak because of their

> bondings, not of encountering nor harming each other, I think. In each

> form they will do their tasks differently. Some build the body

> structures ( tissues, organs, fluids, blood, jing.... ) you can name

> them whatever you want. a Few form the nervous system ( the chemical

> or electrical paths ). Others from the Shen ( the intelligence ).

> We observe things and recognize their changes of forms through

> energy in time........... Why don't we spend more time in observing

> the process of changes and why it a thing is in constant change ?

> A good beautful material is being heated under a substantial amount of

> heat will change its form or will be disappeared....... In this case,

> the Yin is important or Yang ? Eventhough if it is submerged in a

> acid, will it retain its form ??????????

> Yin-yang means nothing to me if it is not harmonizing within my

> body and it is also meaningless if it is outside of my body. My body

> captures yin-yang just as and atom capture and hold its neutrons and

> protons together, tightly in harmony. If protons and neutrons are

> fighting each other to get a better place in a neucleus, an atom will

> not exist. A lot of Yin in my body will cause only sickness, illness

> or disease if it does not show its Yang property. It must be at work

> at all times to make me feel strong as steel. As I state, we see

> things in Yin, but actually it is in Yang, for all Yang all things are

> created, not Yin.......... Yin is a subname " subtitle of Yang "

>

> ANYBODY WHO HAS GOOD VISION OR GOOD VERBALIZATION please help me

> more in this.............

> What I want all TCM to focus ...... We we focus we look at only

> one thing and expand it from there. We look at the root of all changes

> . If we can draw, we can draw billions of things. THe key is draw, not

> of things.

>

> Thanks Juan ! I hope this will give you another view and you may

> help me and or other TCm to develop further in our YANG environment.

>

> Nam Nguyen

>

> - In Chinese Medicine , " juantovarm "

> <aramis1971@> wrote:

> >

> > Both yin and yang are necessary, you say life force is yang? that's

> > true, but yin is also life force, or do you consider existence without

> > both male and female of every species? would life be possible if the

> > sun only shone in one side of the planet? what would happen to the

> > sunny part after only a couple of days of non-stop sun at 30º Celsius?

> > what would happen to the dark side? if yin were not life force, why is

> > sleep necessary to heal ourselves? why do we grow when we sleep? if

> > yin were not life force, why pant on the soil or why do women carry

> > babies? if everything were yang, it would have no physical form, we

> > now THAT is necessary for life... too much yin and everything gets too

> > condensed...

> >

> > Now let's see, what happens if there is a dominance of yang? things

> > rise: temperature, emotions, cycles (isn't that what is happening to

> > our planet? isn't that why every year is hotter that the previous one,

> > why polar ice caps are melting? why there are so many wars?) society

> > is faster, more demanding, more and more money is necessary, thus more

> > and more work, resulting in a number of imbalances such ranging from

> > stress related issues to hart attacks or wind strokes...i don't see

> > how that can be very healthy...

> >

> > If yin dominates, then everything turns slow, would fruits ripe?,

> > would plants grow fast enough and become green? everything would be

> > too viscous it would be a lot harder to breathe and move around.

> > people would suffer from damp cold related issues, cancer, fibromas,

> > cysts, obesity, simply too cold and too slow.

> >

> > life force is only one, life force is the combination of yin and yang,

> > just get a pakua and spin it, you will see how the black and white

> > fuse and a small dot will appear in the middle, in the axis, this is

> > life force and it has been theorized on since the beginning of ages,

> > resulting in yin and yang in the chinese, but it is not two, but one

> > with polarities that need to stay in balance in order to have life

> > (yin yang, day night, adam eve, whatever you want to call it). I

> > believe that seeing two forces is a mistake resulting from our square

> > society, from the misunderstanding of the ancient texts, from the

> > translations of misunderstood teachings, from our basic egos and minds

> > trying to rationalize everything...

> >

> > well, that is just me, my opinion

> >

> > Juan

> >

>

October 10, 2007

I don't agree that Yang is more important than Yin. It is like saying

that your right leg is more important than your left leg. Without both

you can't walk. Without Yin, Yang has no way to manifest, like heat it

just radiates away into the void. With the mix of Yin and Yang in

harmony life can exist and flourish.

Christopher Vedeler L.Ac.

Oasis Acupuncture

http://www.oasisacupuncture.com

9832 N. Hayden Rd.

Suite 215

Scottsdale, AZ 85258

Phone: (480) 991-3650

October 11, 2007

Hi Nam,

Da Bao Lun is a short treatise from Zhang Jie Bing's â€œLei Jing Fu Yi "

chapter 3(ã€Šç±»ç»é™„ç¿¼ã€‹å·ä¸‰). I have no idea if it's been translated into

English or any other language, and unless your classical Chinese is

decent it's a difficult read.

In any case, it was written by Zhang partly in response to Zhu Dan

Xi's well known and influential saying that " yang is frequently in

excess, and yin is frequently deficient " . Zhang was not really saying

that yang is more important, but rather reminding people of the

important nature of yang.

This is clinically significant because in cases of yin deficiency or

excess heat, it is often necessary to use some warm medicinals in

addition to cooling ones (as in heat clearing or yin tonifying). One

very clear and simple example that comes to mind is Dang Gui Bu Xue

Tang, which uses a large dose of Huang Qi, a qi tonic, to generate

blood, a yin substance. Of course this goes both ways, another obvious

example being Jin Gui Shen Qi Wan, using yin tonics in addition to

yang tonics to generate yang.

This idea is also seen in the saying ç«éƒå`ä¹‹/huo yu fa zhi, which

means when there's stagnation fire it must be expelled, often implying

the use of warm acrid medicinal to expel heat. A good example is Fang

Feng Tong Sheng San, which uses warm and acrid (yang) Fang Feng to

fa/expell heat in an excess-heat condition. Using only cold and bitter

herbs in a case like this would cause more stagnation, leading to more

heat in the end.

For example, here's an interesting case. A woman came to see me for

chronic sore throat and cough of several months duration. She had

self-prescribed Huang Lian Shang Qing Wan, which is for excess heat in

the upper jiao. She did this because every layperson in China knows

about clearing heat, and that's what people think to do when they have

heat symptoms(this is why Zhang Jie Bing wrote Da Bao Lun,

essentially). However, after taking it her symptoms became worse. In

fact, her case was really due to é˜´ç«ï¼yin fire, which was fire rising

up to the upper jiao from stagnation in the middle and lower jiao. She

had some constipation, Ren 8 and 12 were tender to palpation, pulse

was deep and jumpy in both Chi positions, and tongue had tight greasy

yellow coat in the back. I used some bits and pieces from Zhi Shi Dao

Zhi, Mu Xiang Bing Lang Wan, Tiao Zhong Si Xiao Wan, all to move

stagnation from the middle and lower jiao, including many warm and

moving herbs(mu xiang, bing lang, da fu pi, chao qian niu zi, zao jiao

ci,wu ling zhi, cu e zhu, chao zhi shi, chao lai fu zi, etc), in

addition to a few cold herbs, all of which were ç‚'ï¼chao/fried to

reduce cold and stagnant nature(da huang tan, chao huang lian, chao

huang bai), and adding Bo He Tan/charcoal to " fa " /expell a bit of heat

from the throat (charcoal because fresh bo he would have been to cold

and stagnating). After the first bag of herbs her symptoms were

largely reduced. Within one week she was without symptoms.

So it's important when we see heat not to just think about cold

substances to clear it. Sometimes we have to use the yang to expell

it. This is what Zhang Jie Bing, and now Nam, are reminding us of.

Best,

Greg

Chinese Medicine , " dr_namnguyen58 "

<dr_namnguyen58 wrote:

>

> HI Greg,

> I am sorry I had never heard of Da Bao LUn and Zhang Jie Bing before

> you mentioned it and I would like to know where to get this book so I

> can read further. I may find some interesting points.

>

> THanks Greg

> Nam Nguyen

>

> Chinese Medicine , " Greg Livingston "

> <drlivingston@> wrote:

> >

> > Hi Nam,

> >

> > This is essentially what Zhang Jie Bing says in his " Da Bao Lun "

> > (ï¿½ ä»‹å…µï¼Œã€Šå¤§å®è®ºã€‹), supposedly as a response to Zhu Dan

> Xi's " Yang you yu,

> > yin bu zu lun " (ã€Šé˜³æœ‰ä½™é˜´ä¸è¶³è®ºã€‹ï¼‰ã€‚ Have you read it

> before?

> >

> > Best,

> > Greg

> >

> > AGAIN IN YANG , not YIN and YANG.

> > Posted by: " dr_namnguyen58 " dr_namnguyen58@

> > dr_namnguyen58

> > Tue Oct 9, 2007 12:17 pm (PST)

> > Dear all colleagues,

> > I am writing this thought and wish that we all TCM look again

> > deeply into YANG and understand it thoroughly from here we can create

> > all things.

> >

> > The Life Force ( Yang )

> > We, TCM, are perceiving the life force is Yin-Yang, but I view

Yang is

> > the only life force.

> > YANG ( the sun, the energy, the heat, the movements of up and

> > down, in and out, the growth, the development, the production

> > Â–generation, the life force, the expansion, spreading Â… )Â…Â….. WHAT

> > ABOUT YIN ???

> > YIN ( the materials, the 112 known elements today ) possesses all

> > kinds of Yang energies: consolidation, combination, nourishment,

> > shrinkage, holding, maintaining, quieting, coldness )

> > YANG is more important, so I stick my noses and my eyes into

this.

> > Without YANG, there is darkness. With this darkness, YIN materials or

> > elements do not see and do not know what they are doing. Probably, in

> > their nature, they are wishing to hold themselves together one-to-one

> > very tight without loosen up and wait until there is some light (

Yang

> > ) they will continue their activitiesÂ….. More YANG will separate them

> > and activate them. They, YIN, will perform their jobs properly with

> > YANG appearance. In this case, I think , when there is no YANG , YIN

> > does not means a thing because there is no activities in nature.

> > In life, if there is a little YANG , its means there is life and

> > there is hope. No YANG is no hope and there is no life.

> > !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

> > YANG in universe is never lack or changed such as the sun ( in

full

> > form ), but YIN is up and down in its form such as the moon( growth

> > and ends, from small - to full- to small )

> > YANG on earth is changed because its earth is rotating ( hot and

> > cold orbiting around the sun ). The rotating of the earth is causing

> > the changes of life, the changes of the activities of natures and all

> > of their forms because of its moving.

> > YANG in man or animals or in living things are limited ( in a

> > confined forms ). Their lives must be limited. Within this limit,

YANG

> > may help its YINs get together and perform their functions.When YANG

> > declines or disappears, life will follow.

> > If we understand and spend much more time to imagine about

YANG, we

> > may draw astronomical forms and the activities of all things in

> > certain ways. The outcomes can be predictedÂ…

> > PRODUCTION ( LIFE-BORN ) or NEW LIFE :

> > If we do not look into YANG ( the production, the DNA & RNA,

> > development, the growth and the generation of changes, the formation

> > of all materials ), where should we look into ???

> > The POSTNATAL ( the earth, the elements Â…) ??? Before the

formation of

> > things, Yang must be existed and growthed ! The earth nourishes the

> > materials later. For newlife, this is not a place to look into.

> > REMEMBER : all things are created either in forms of solid,

> > liquid, or gas, they are YANG in the first place !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

> > Why do I ignore YIN ??????? Yin is the reference of YANG. Look at

> > YIN we must know and understand it is a form of all YANG created.

> > However, If we understood YIN and its metaphors with time, we also

> > understood YANG. In treatment, YANG is the start, in my point !

> > PLEASE CORRECT ME IF I AM WRONG OR IF I AM MISSING SOME POINTS.

> >

> > Thanks,

> > Nam Nguyen.

> >

> > P.S I heard some people asked me " Which one comes first, an egg or

> > a chicken ? "

> > I responded :

> > " An egg comes first. For I see that egg becomes a chicken at the

> > time I see and understood. "

> > " A chicken comes first because at the time I see a chicken lays

eggs

> > and eggs become chickens " Â…Â…Â…. So, in this case TIME is essential,

> > and time is YANG. The YIN, material does mean nothing. If there is no

> > YANG, YIN not existed, no discussion. YIN can be seen and can be

> > argued endlessly, for YIN is a production of YANG and have all kinds

> > of figures and all kinds of arguments and there is no truth. The same

> > in HEALTH, we see some forms of illnesses and have all kinds of

points

> > and analysis and arguments, but forgetting to go deeper into

YANG, the

> > answers varied from time to time. I think this is not an appropriate

> > approach.

> >

> > GOOD LUCK TO ALL.

> >

> > --

> > Vote in the National Cheney Impeachment Poll

> > http://www.usalone.com/blogvoices.php?Cheney%20Impeachment%3F

> > Add this text to your own email and blog signatures!

> >

> > Greg A. Livingston, PhD(candidate), L.Ac.

> > PR China, 310002

> > Zhejiang Province, Hangzhou

> > Si Tiao Xiang 23, #602

> > mobile: 86-571-8171-2217

> > http://www.myspace.com/doclivy

> >

>

October 11, 2007

Hi Chris and Greg,

You two and probably all other TCM professionals are not in the

wrong track and are absolutely right in Yin-Yang theory. But if we are

definitely so sure about our theory and close our mind, we are at some

steps behind the science and not moving on. There are known illnesses

and diseases which are still unsolved by our TCM. Should we find some

other ways to see expand our vision?

Theories are changing in time -but not the law- and have been

modified or updated I believe. Should we find all sources of

information available and learn more to help our progenitors to

develop their theories further if we can?

Let' look at Yin deficiency with heat symptoms : To me, Yin is yin

and when yin is deficieny does not mean there is heat as I mentioned

earlier. Where is the heat coming from? When yin is low and there is

no Yang, probably it is still cold... Heat is heat and when heat is

low it does not mean it will be cold if the is no Yin or no cold

property. What does it means here ? Yin and Yang exist together in

nature in one form and must be in harmony and at the same time within

our bodies yin and Yang are also in harmony, therefore, we experience

neither to cold nor to hot... This is how I see.

We use herbs to clear heat and move Qi. Actually we are not clearing

heat but we combine this heat with their cold or clearing herbal

properties in order to transform it into another useful product or or

excrete it out of the body... This is how I see.

YIN AND YANG are names. Please do not picture them as visible

forms........... Yang at the bottom, moving in, astringent, condense,

cold, shrink we named them Yin... Their actions and powers are Yang

but we named them yin to indicate which way and how it behaves.

It is best for me to learn and to look at life or living things in

their motions and their appearances " their energy " .

We eat and breathe to extract energy from air and food. When they

are inside they combine or join themselves in our existent energy to

form all other kinds of energies to produce motions and physical

matters as we called them the solid, liquid or gas.

Yin and Yang are not destroying or killing each other, but are

together they are the products to form useful and harmonized forms in

nature.........

We , TCM , are involving in the skill of finding out why such a

patient behave in certain ways or not incertain ways " the behavior or

the motions of energy ... THE YANG " .

Anybody has any ideas , please come in and help me in this. If

there are opposite views, please express them so we can learn more.

Thanks to you Chris and Greg.

Nam Nguyen

October 11, 2007

Interesting thoughts Nam Nuyen.

In reality Yin and Yang are not easily separated. They always exist

together with a living human being. We see the behaviors of the patient

(Yang), yet what we see is Yin (the body) animated by Yang. If it were

not for the Yin there would be nothing to see, nothing to feel, no

patient to diagnose. Without the Yang the patient would be just a dead

body.

When Yin is deficient and there is heat, the heat is Yang you are

right. Heat is heat. But the root of the heat is what is important

regarding the treatment. If the heat is due to Yin deficiency, reducing

heat without addressing the underlying deficiency of Yin only treats the

branches and does not give the patient lasting results. Both Yin and

Yang must be considered when working with a patient. since Yin and Yang

will always be in a dynamic relationship within every living thing.

Chris Vedeler

dr_namnguyen58 wrote:

> Hi Chris and Greg,

> You two and probably all other TCM professionals are not in the

> wrong track and are absolutely right in Yin-Yang theory. But if we are

> definitely so sure about our theory and close our mind, we are at some

> steps behind the science and not moving on. There are known illnesses

> and diseases which are still unsolved by our TCM. Should we find some

> other ways to see expand our vision?

> Theories are changing in time -but not the law- and have been

> modified or updated I believe. Should we find all sources of

> information available and learn more to help our progenitors to

> develop their theories further if we can?

> Let' look at Yin deficiency with heat symptoms : To me, Yin is yin

> and when yin is deficieny does not mean there is heat as I mentioned

> earlier. Where is the heat coming from? When yin is low and there is

> no Yang, probably it is still cold... Heat is heat and when heat is

> low it does not mean it will be cold if the is no Yin or no cold

> property. What does it means here ? Yin and Yang exist together in

> nature in one form and must be in harmony and at the same time within

> our bodies yin and Yang are also in harmony, therefore, we experience

> neither to cold nor to hot... This is how I see.

> We use herbs to clear heat and move Qi. Actually we are not clearing

> heat but we combine this heat with their cold or clearing herbal

> properties in order to transform it into another useful product or or

> excrete it out of the body... This is how I see.

> YIN AND YANG are names. Please do not picture them as visible

> forms........... Yang at the bottom, moving in, astringent, condense,

> cold, shrink we named them Yin... Their actions and powers are Yang

> but we named them yin to indicate which way and how it behaves.

> It is best for me to learn and to look at life or living things in

> their motions and their appearances " their energy " .

> We eat and breathe to extract energy from air and food. When they

> are inside they combine or join themselves in our existent energy to

> form all other kinds of energies to produce motions and physical

> matters as we called them the solid, liquid or gas.

> Yin and Yang are not destroying or killing each other, but are

> together they are the products to form useful and harmonized forms in

> nature.........

> We , TCM , are involving in the skill of finding out why such a

> patient behave in certain ways or not incertain ways " the behavior or

> the motions of energy ... THE YANG " .

> Anybody has any ideas , please come in and help me in this. If

> there are opposite views, please express them so we can learn more.

>

> Thanks to you Chris and Greg.

>

> Nam Nguyen

>

> Subscribe to the free online journal for TCM at Times

http://www.chinesemedicinetimes.com

>

> Help build the world's largest online encyclopedia for Chinese medicine and

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>

and adjust

accordingly.

>

> Please consider the environment and only print this message if absolutely

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>

October 11, 2007

Hi Nam or others,

if you like to read da bao lun (in chinese), I could send it to your mailbox

in pdf format.

Cheers,

Yandy

Catch up on fall's hot new shows on TV. Watch previews, get listings,

and more!

October 11, 2007

Hi Yandy,

It is very kind of you, but I do not understand Chinese language.

Nam Nguyen

Chinese Medicine , Yandy Yang

<yandy_mail wrote:

>

> Hi Nam or others,

> if you like to read da bao lun (in chinese), I could send it to

your mailbox in pdf format.

>

> Cheers,

> Yandy

>

> Catch up on fall's hot new shows on TV. Watch previews, get

listings, and more!

>

October 11, 2007

Hey come on guys, get his point. When a person dies, their yin remains, but the

yang is gone. The last moments of life are the final flares of yang. There is an

important point there about the closeness of " yang " to life, versus the yin of a

ball of rock like the moon.

Hugo

Christopher Vedeler L.Ac. <vedeler

Chinese Medicine

Wednesday, 10 October, 2007 3:25:18 PM

RE: AGAIN IN YANG , not YIN and YANG.

I don't agree that Yang is more important than Yin. It is like

saying

that your right leg is more important than your left leg. Without both

you can't walk. Without Yin, Yang has no way to manifest, like heat it

just radiates away into the void. With the mix of Yin and Yang in

harmony life can exist and flourish.

Christopher Vedeler L.Ac.

Oasis Acupuncture

http://www.oasisacu puncture. com

9832 N. Hayden Rd.

Suite 215

Scottsdale, AZ 85258

Phone: (480) 991-3650

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October 11, 2007

Dear Juan,

In the book of Tao or Dao or I-Ching, I believed this is the

introduction :

The universe began with emptiness and without form. From the

emptiness it formed one. From one it divided into two, from two "

Yin-Yang " into four, from four into eight and then ...... infinitive.

From King Jame, the Bible : The GENESIS In the beginning there was

a light. This light is the Spirit of God and created all things.

From my view : Energy has an omni-direction.. Moving in negative or

in negative position we called it YIN, inreverse oyf YIN we named it

YANG................ We can call it or name it or rename it whatever

we want, but do not losing its trace, its root.

In the POSITIVE condition : move up, move out, expand, excrete, give

birth, heat , fast , vigorous , lively ... we call this YANG. In

contrast of any above we call it YIN...

Let's look at our fingers : extending we call YANG, contracting "

YIN " . This is the energy which with its power to contract or extend

the finger... We may call that contraction is YIN, but the power or

the energy to contract is YANG or Qi, with out Qi there is no

contraction by itself...

Again : when you have a lot of money = YANG, lack of money or owe

toomuch money from the bank = YIN... I see this is the name of YIN and

YANG, but the key is MONEY... YIN-YANG is the condition of money.

When we are touching the subject of a living things, I believe we

want to concenttrate on " living_energy " , not of cold nor heat, nor

deficiency or excess, fat nor thin, beauty nor ugly........... Def or

excess, heat or cold are conditions exhibits by internal energy "

living power " . We first want to know if such a living thing is

healthy and happy and will its life last or will it end soon. We

should look at the picture of the present and project it into the future.

A weak or feeble energy will not shed good light, will not give us

enough warmth, and for sure will not give birth... An energy or Qi

goes in reverse direction or in negative direction will sure come into

distinction and its life will end.

FOR LIFE AND FOR TREATMENT OF DISEASES OR ILLNESSES, I think Qi "

Yang " must be full, healthy, happy and in harmony... There are so

many TCM, always look at heat and cold or stagnation and sometimes

look at def or excess and conclude their diagnosis and treatments then

move on with clear heat, sedating, removing toxin which can cause

worse... If it works, I think that they are in luck for the same

illnesses they cannot help. Of course, we are in luck so many times,

but we must find a solid evidence, a base to back up in case we run

out of gas. This is Qi. First, We must make sure our patients have

full Qi and in harmony before doing any sedating or clearing heat or

moving Qi in negative direction!!!!!!!!!!!!!

In harmony there exists life............ But the Yin-Yang and 5

elements are the laws of giving birth, nourishing, over-acting,

reverse-acting to control life....... But in my view, they are not

against each other, but fulfill the missing proerty or creating new

properties " power " , new products.

In excess heat, we need some herbs or some therapy to guide or

move the heat out by itself, we do not kill it and this I call "

Harmony " ... In case of deficiency, I use herbs or food or other

therapy to bring this up, this I also call it " HARMONY " ... In case

of stagnation either blood or Qi, I must find a method to break or

dissolve the solid masses, the obstacles and then move them away, not

destroying them. I call this " THE HARMONY " .....

YANG or QI is the life-force and it must be in harmony in other to

have life. Harmony I mean together and in moderate. This is what I see.

Thanks Juan !

Nam Nguyen

October 11, 2007

Hi Hugo;

One way to look at this is we are comprised of Yin/Yuan/Yang, Yuan

is eternal, it is our yuan shen. At physical death the Yuan Shen

continues on as it is the eternal aspect of our life. The physical

body will decompose, the light of physical life or yang dissipates.

regards,

david

Chinese Medicine , Hugo Ramiro

<subincor wrote:

>

> Hey come on guys, get his point. When a person dies, their yin

remains, but the yang is gone. The last moments of life are the

final flares of yang. There is an important point there about the

closeness of " yang " to life, versus the yin of a ball of rock like

the moon.

>

> Hugo

>

> Christopher Vedeler L.Ac. <vedeler

> Chinese Medicine

> Wednesday, 10 October, 2007 3:25:18 PM

> RE: AGAIN IN YANG , not YIN and YANG.

>

I don't agree that Yang is more important than Yin.

It is like saying

>

> that your right leg is more important than your left leg. Without

both

>

> you can't walk. Without Yin, Yang has no way to manifest, like

heat it

>

> just radiates away into the void. With the mix of Yin and Yang in

>

> harmony life can exist and flourish.

>

> Christopher Vedeler L.Ac.

>

> Oasis Acupuncture

>

> http://www.oasisacu puncture. com

>

> 9832 N. Hayden Rd.

>

> Suite 215

>

> Scottsdale, AZ 85258

>

> Phone: (480) 991-3650

>

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>

_________

> Answers - Got a question? Someone out there knows the

answer. Try it

> now.

> http://uk.answers./

>

October 11, 2007

Hugo,

What do you mean by, " The Yang is Gone? "

Do you mean that that the Yang that previously animated the body is

no longer attached to a particular person?

Or do you mean that the Yang ceases to exist?

EM

-------------------------

Chinese Medicine , Hugo Ramiro

<subincor wrote:

>

> Hey come on guys, get his point. When a person dies, their yin

remains, but the yang is gone. The last moments of life are the

final flares of yang. There is an important point there about the

closeness of " yang " to life, versus the yin of a ball of rock like

the moon.

>

> Hugo

>

> Christopher Vedeler L.Ac. <vedeler

> Chinese Medicine

> Wednesday, 10 October, 2007 3:25:18 PM

> RE: AGAIN IN YANG , not YIN and YANG.

>

I don't agree that Yang is more important than Yin.

It is like saying

>

> that your right leg is more important than your left leg. Without

both

>

> you can't walk. Without Yin, Yang has no way to manifest, like

heat it

>

> just radiates away into the void. With the mix of Yin and Yang in

>

> harmony life can exist and flourish.

>

> Christopher Vedeler L.Ac.

>

> Oasis Acupuncture

>

> http://www.oasisacu puncture. com

>

> 9832 N. Hayden Rd.

>

> Suite 215

>

> Scottsdale, AZ 85258

>

> Phone: (480) 991-3650

>

<!--

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> -->

>

_________

> Answers - Got a question? Someone out there knows the

answer. Try it

> now.

> http://uk.answers./

>

October 11, 2007

Hi,

The Yang, which is in charge of animating the body in this example, is no

longer in the body. It is gone.

Ceases to exist? We'd have to get into definitions and such. David brought up

the Yuan shen, which is not destroyed. However, other aspects of " yang " such as

the corporeal souls, leave the body and dissolve. If I'm getting that right.

Corrections welcome.

Hugo

establishment_man <establishment_man

Chinese Medicine

Thursday, 11 October, 2007 2:00:41 PM

Re: AGAIN IN YANG , not YIN and YANG.

Hugo,

What do you mean by, " The Yang is Gone? "

Do you mean that that the Yang that previously animated the body is

no longer attached to a particular person?

Or do you mean that the Yang ceases to exist?

EM

------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -

Traditional_ Chinese_Medicine , Hugo Ramiro

<subincor@.. .> wrote:

>

> Hey come on guys, get his point. When a person dies, their yin

remains, but the yang is gone. The last moments of life are the

final flares of yang. There is an important point there about the

closeness of " yang " to life, versus the yin of a ball of rock like

the moon.

>

> Hugo

>

> Christopher Vedeler L.Ac. <vedeler >

>

> Wednesday, 10 October, 2007 3:25:18 PM

> RE: AGAIN IN YANG , not YIN and YANG.

>

> I don't agree that Yang is more important than Yin.

It is like saying

>

> that your right leg is more important than your left leg. Without

both

>

> you can't walk. Without Yin, Yang has no way to manifest, like

heat it

>

> just radiates away into the void. With the mix of Yin and Yang in

>

> harmony life can exist and flourish.

>

> Christopher Vedeler L.Ac.

>

> Oasis Acupuncture

>

> http://www.oasisacu puncture. com

>

> 9832 N. Hayden Rd.

>

> Suite 215

>

> Scottsdale, AZ 85258

>

> Phone: (480) 991-3650

>

> <!--

>

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> -->

>

> ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _

> Answers - Got a question? Someone out there knows the

answer. Try it

> now.

> http://uk.answers. /

>

October 12, 2007

Hugo,

What about the Yang that decomposes the body? Is that the body's

Yang? Or is that the Yang of the bacteria and micro organisms?

What do people think?

EM

Chinese Medicine , Hugo Ramiro

<subincor wrote:

>

> Hi,

> The Yang, which is in charge of animating the body in this

example, is no longer in the body. It is gone.

> Ceases to exist? We'd have to get into definitions and such.

David brought up the Yuan shen, which is not destroyed. However,

other aspects of " yang " such as the corporeal souls, leave the body

and dissolve. If I'm getting that right. Corrections welcome.

>

> Hugo

>

> establishment_man <establishment_man

> Chinese Medicine

> Thursday, 11 October, 2007 2:00:41 PM

> Re: AGAIN IN YANG , not YIN and YANG.

>

Hugo,

>

> What do you mean by, " The Yang is Gone? "

>

> Do you mean that that the Yang that previously animated the body

is

>

> no longer attached to a particular person?

>

> Or do you mean that the Yang ceases to exist?

>

> EM

>

> ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -

>

October 12, 2007

Hi Hugo:

This is a very big topic and the classic medical books only scratch

the surface, many of the greatest Chinese medical physicians were

alchemists, spiritual alchemists, including Ge Hong, one of the all

time greats.

In the model of Hun-Po, Hun is Yang and Po is Yin. There are many

ways to view this model. You mention 7-po, in that model these are 7-

Yin Souls, one can view them as the seven physical senses we must

learn to live with in a health way: 2-eyes-sight, 2-ears-hearing, 1-

nose-smelling, 1-mouth-taste, 1-genital-sexuality. Other unite the 7-

po with seven stages of evolution or development and their

correspondences to the Acupuncture point/energy/chakra system. There

are lots of ways this model is used but the meaning behind them is

the pretty much the same.

regards,

david

Chinese Medicine , Hugo Ramiro

<subincor wrote:

>

> Hi,

> The Yang, which is in charge of animating the body in this

example, is no longer in the body. It is gone.

> Ceases to exist? We'd have to get into definitions and such.

David brought up the Yuan shen, which is not destroyed. However,

other aspects of " yang " such as the corporeal souls, leave the body

and dissolve. If I'm getting that right. Corrections welcome.

>

> Hugo

>

> establishment_man <establishment_man

> Chinese Medicine

> Thursday, 11 October, 2007 2:00:41 PM

> Re: AGAIN IN YANG , not YIN and YANG.

>

Hugo,

>

> What do you mean by, " The Yang is Gone? "

>

> Do you mean that that the Yang that previously animated the body

is

>

> no longer attached to a particular person?

>

> Or do you mean that the Yang ceases to exist?

>

> EM

>

> ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -

>

> Traditional_ Chinese_Medicine , Hugo

Ramiro

>

> <subincor@ .> wrote:

>

> >

>

> > Hey come on guys, get his point. When a person dies, their yin

>

> remains, but the yang is gone. The last moments of life are the

>

> final flares of yang. There is an important point there about the

>

> closeness of " yang " to life, versus the yin of a ball of rock like

>

> the moon.

>

> >

>

> > Hugo

>

> >

>

> >

>

> > Christopher Vedeler L.Ac. <vedeler@ >

>

> >

>

> > Wednesday, 10 October, 2007 3:25:18 PM

>

> > RE: AGAIN IN YANG , not YIN and YANG.

>

> >

>

> >

>

> >

>

> >

>

> >

>

> >

>

> >

>

> >

>

> >

>

> >

>

> >

>

> >

>

> >

>

> > I don't agree that Yang is more important than Yin.

>

> It is like saying

>

> >

>

> > that your right leg is more important than your left leg.

Without

>

> both

>

> >

>

> > you can't walk. Without Yin, Yang has no way to manifest, like

>

> heat it

>

> >

>

> > just radiates away into the void. With the mix of Yin and Yang

in

>

> >

>

> > harmony life can exist and flourish.

>

> >

>

> >

>

> >

>

> > Christopher Vedeler L.Ac.

>

> >

>

> > Oasis Acupuncture

>

> >

>

> > http://www.oasisacu puncture. com

>

> >

>

> > 9832 N. Hayden Rd.

>

> >

>

> > Suite 215

>

> >

>

> > Scottsdale, AZ 85258

>

> >

>

> > Phone: (480) 991-3650

>

> >

>

> >

>

> >

>

> >

>

> >

>

> >

>

> >

>

> >

>

> >

>

> >

>

> >

>

> >

>

> >

>

> >

>

> > <!--

>

> >

>

> > #ygrp-mkp{

>

> > border:1px solid #d8d8d8;font- family:Arial; margin:14px

>

> 0px;padding: 0px 14px;}

>

> > #ygrp-mkp hr{

>

> > border:1px solid #d8d8d8;}

>

> > #ygrp-mkp #hd{

>

> > color:#628c2a; font-size: 85%;font- weight:bold; line-

>

> height:122%; margin:10px 0px;}

>

> > #ygrp-mkp #ads{

>

> > margin-bottom: 10px;}

>

> > #ygrp-mkp .ad{

>

> > padding:0 0;}

>

> > #ygrp-mkp .ad a{

>

> > color:#0000ff; text-decoration: none;}

>

> > -->

>

> >

>

> >

>

> >

>

> > <!--

>

> >

>

> > #ygrp-sponsor #ygrp-lc{

>

> > font-family: Arial;}

>

> > #ygrp-sponsor #ygrp-lc #hd{

>

> > margin:10px 0px;font-weight: bold;font- size:78%; line-height:

122%;}

>

> > #ygrp-sponsor #ygrp-lc .ad{

>

> > margin-bottom: 10px;padding: 0 0;}

>

> > -->

>

> >

>

> >

>

> >

>

> > <!--

>

> >

>

> > #ygrp-mlmsg {font-size:13px; font-family: arial, helvetica,

clean,

>

> sans-serif;}

>

> > #ygrp-mlmsg table {font-size:inherit; font:100% ;}

>

> > #ygrp-mlmsg select, input, textarea {font:99% arial, helvetica,

>

> clean, sans-serif;}

>

> > #ygrp-mlmsg pre, code {font:115% monospace;}

>

> > #ygrp-mlmsg * {line-height: 1.22em;}

>

> > #ygrp-text{

>

> > font-family: Georgia;

>

> > }

>

> > #ygrp-text p{

>

> > margin:0 0 1em 0;}

>

> > #ygrp-tpmsgs{

>

> > font-family: Arial;

>

> > clear:both;}

>

> > #ygrp-vitnav{

>

> > padding-top: 10px;font- family:Verdana; font-size: 77%;margin:

0;}

>

> > #ygrp-vitnav a{

>

> > padding:0 1px;}

>

> > #ygrp-actbar{

>

> > clear:both;margin: 25px 0;white-space: nowrap;color: #666;text-

>

> align:right; }

>

> > #ygrp-actbar .left{

>

> > float:left;white- space:nowrap; }

>

> > .bld{font-weight: bold;}

>

> > #ygrp-grft{

>

> > font-family: Verdana;font- size:77%; padding:15px 0;}

>

> > #ygrp-ft{

>

> > font-family: verdana;font- size:77%; border-top: 1px solid #666;

>

> > padding:5px 0;

>

> > }

>

> > #ygrp-mlmsg #logo{

>

> > padding-bottom: 10px;}

>

> >

>

> > #ygrp-vital{

>

> > background-color: #e0ecee;margin- bottom:20px; padding:2px 0 8px

8px;}

>

> > #ygrp-vital #vithd{

>

> > font-size:77% ;font-family: Verdana;font- weight:bold;

color:#333; text-

>

> transform:uppercase ;}

>

> > #ygrp-vital ul{

>

> > padding:0;margin: 2px 0;}

>

> > #ygrp-vital ul li{

>

> > list-style-type: none;clear: both;border: 1px solid #e0ecee;

>

> > }

>

> > #ygrp-vital ul li .ct{

>

> > font-weight: bold;color: #ff7900;float: right;width: 2em;text-

>

> align:right; padding-right: .5em;}

>

> > #ygrp-vital ul li .cat{

>

> > font-weight: bold;}

>

> > #ygrp-vital a{

>

> > text-decoration: none;}

>

> >

>

> > #ygrp-vital a:hover{

>

> > text-decoration: underline; }

>

> >

>

> > #ygrp-sponsor #hd{

>

> > color:#999;font- size:77%; }

>

> > #ygrp-sponsor #ov{

>

> > padding:6px 13px;background- color:#e0ecee; margin-bottom: 20px;}

>

> > #ygrp-sponsor #ov ul{

>

> > padding:0 0 0 8px;margin:0; }

>

> > #ygrp-sponsor #ov li{

>

> > list-style-type: square;padding: 6px 0;font-size: 77%;}

>

> > #ygrp-sponsor #ov li a{

>

> > text-decoration: none;font- size:130% ;}

>

> > #ygrp-sponsor #nc{

>

> > background-color: #eee;margin- bottom:20px; padding:0 8px;}

>

> > #ygrp-sponsor .ad{

>

> > padding:8px 0;}

>

> > #ygrp-sponsor .ad #hd1{

>

> > font-family: Arial;font- weight:bold; color:#628c2a; font-

>

> size:100%;line- height:122% ;}

>

> > #ygrp-sponsor .ad a{

>

> > text-decoration: none;}

>

> > #ygrp-sponsor .ad a:hover{

>

> > text-decoration: underline; }

>

> > #ygrp-sponsor .ad p{

>

> > margin:0;}

>

> > o{font-size: 0;}

>

> > .MsoNormal{

>

> > margin:0 0 0 0;}

>

> > #ygrp-text tt{

>

> > font-size:120% ;}

>

> > blockquote{margin: 0 0 0 4px;}

>

> > .replbq{margin: 4;}

>

> > -->

>

> >

>

> >

>

> >

>

> >

>

> >

>

> >

>

> >

>

> >

>

> > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________

_________ _

>

> > Answers - Got a question? Someone out there knows the

>

> answer. Try it

>

> > now.

>

> > http://uk.answers. /

>

> >

>

> >

October 12, 2007

Hello,

The Yang leaves the body, but is not gone. It, just as the Yin does

later, returns to its source, the Tao. It is energy, which can never

be destroyed, only changed and reused.

Chinese Medicine , " flyingstarsfengshui "

<flyingstarsfengshui wrote:

>

> Hi Hugo:

>

> This is a very big topic and the classic medical books only scratch

> the surface, many of the greatest Chinese medical physicians were

> alchemists, spiritual alchemists, including Ge Hong, one of the all

> time greats.

>

> In the model of Hun-Po, Hun is Yang and Po is Yin. There are many

> ways to view this model. You mention 7-po, in that model these are

7-

> Yin Souls, one can view them as the seven physical senses we must

> learn to live with in a health way: 2-eyes-sight, 2-ears-hearing, 1-

> nose-smelling, 1-mouth-taste, 1-genital-sexuality. Other unite the

7-

> po with seven stages of evolution or development and their

> correspondences to the Acupuncture point/energy/chakra system.

There

> are lots of ways this model is used but the meaning behind them is

> the pretty much the same.

>

> regards,

> david

>

> Chinese Medicine , Hugo Ramiro

> <subincor@> wrote:

> >

> > Hi,

> > The Yang, which is in charge of animating the body in this

> example, is no longer in the body. It is gone.

> > Ceases to exist? We'd have to get into definitions and such.

> David brought up the Yuan shen, which is not destroyed. However,

> other aspects of " yang " such as the corporeal souls, leave the body

> and dissolve. If I'm getting that right. Corrections welcome.

> >

> > Hugo

> >

> > establishment_man <establishment_man@>

> > Chinese Medicine

> > Thursday, 11 October, 2007 2:00:41 PM

> > Re: AGAIN IN YANG , not YIN and YANG.

> >

> > Hugo,

> >

> > What do you mean by, " The Yang is Gone? "

> >

> > Do you mean that that the Yang that previously animated the body

> is

> >

> > no longer attached to a particular person?

> >

> > Or do you mean that the Yang ceases to exist?

> >

> > EM

> >

> > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -

> >

> > Traditional_ Chinese_Medicine , Hugo

> Ramiro

> >

> > <subincor@ .> wrote:

> >

> > >

> >

> > > Hey come on guys, get his point. When a person dies, their yin

> >

> > remains, but the yang is gone. The last moments of life are the

> >

> > final flares of yang. There is an important point there about the

> >

> > closeness of " yang " to life, versus the yin of a ball of rock

like

> >

> > the moon.

> >

> > >

> >

> > > Hugo

> >

> > >

> >

> > >

> >

> > > Christopher Vedeler L.Ac. <vedeler@ >

> >

> > >

> >

> > > Wednesday, 10 October, 2007 3:25:18 PM

> >

> > > RE: AGAIN IN YANG , not YIN and YANG.

> >

> > >

> >

> > >

> >

> > >

> >

> > >

> >

> > >

> >

> > >

> >

> > >

> >

> > >

> >

> > >

> >

> > >

> >

> > >

> >

> > >

> >

> > >

> >

> > > I don't agree that Yang is more important than

Yin.

> >

> > It is like saying

> >

> > >

> >

> > > that your right leg is more important than your left leg.

> Without

> >

> > both

> >

> > >

> >

> > > you can't walk. Without Yin, Yang has no way to manifest, like

> >

> > heat it

> >

> > >

> >

> > > just radiates away into the void. With the mix of Yin and Yang

> in

> >

> > >

> >

> > > harmony life can exist and flourish.

> >

> > >

> >

> > >

> >

> > >

> >

> > > Christopher Vedeler L.Ac.

> >

> > >

> >

> > > Oasis Acupuncture

> >

> > >

> >

> > > http://www.oasisacu puncture. com

> >

> > >

> >

> > > 9832 N. Hayden Rd.

> >

> > >

> >

> > > Suite 215

> >

> > >

> >

> > > Scottsdale, AZ 85258

> >

> > >

> >

> > > Phone: (480) 991-3650

> >

> > >

> >

> > >

> >

> > >

> >

> > >

> >

> > >

> >

> > >

> >

> > >

> >

> > >

> >

> > >

> >

> > >

> >

> > >

> >

> > >

> >

> > >

> >

> > >

> >

> > > <!--

> >

> > >

> >

> > > #ygrp-mkp{

> >

> > > border:1px solid #d8d8d8;font- family:Arial; margin:14px

> >

> > 0px;padding: 0px 14px;}

> >

> > > #ygrp-mkp hr{

> >

> > > border:1px solid #d8d8d8;}

> >

> > > #ygrp-mkp #hd{

> >

> > > color:#628c2a; font-size: 85%;font- weight:bold; line-

> >

> > height:122%; margin:10px 0px;}

> >

> > > #ygrp-mkp #ads{

> >

> > > margin-bottom: 10px;}

> >

> > > #ygrp-mkp .ad{

> >

> > > padding:0 0;}

> >

> > > #ygrp-mkp .ad a{

> >

> > > color:#0000ff; text-decoration: none;}

> >

> > > -->

> >

> > >

> >

> > >

> >

> > >

> >

> > > <!--

> >

> > >

> >

> > > #ygrp-sponsor #ygrp-lc{

> >

> > > font-family: Arial;}

> >

> > > #ygrp-sponsor #ygrp-lc #hd{

> >

> > > margin:10px 0px;font-weight: bold;font- size:78%; line-height:

> 122%;}

> >

> > > #ygrp-sponsor #ygrp-lc .ad{

> >

> > > margin-bottom: 10px;padding: 0 0;}

> >

> > > -->

> >

> > >

> >

> > >

> >

> > >

> >

> > > <!--

> >

> > >

> >

> > > #ygrp-mlmsg {font-size:13px; font-family: arial, helvetica,

> clean,

> >

> > sans-serif;}

> >

> > > #ygrp-mlmsg table {font-size:inherit; font:100% ;}

> >

> > > #ygrp-mlmsg select, input, textarea {font:99% arial, helvetica,

> >

> > clean, sans-serif;}

> >

> > > #ygrp-mlmsg pre, code {font:115% monospace;}

> >

> > > #ygrp-mlmsg * {line-height: 1.22em;}

> >

> > > #ygrp-text{

> >

> > > font-family: Georgia;

> >

> > > }

> >

> > > #ygrp-text p{

> >

> > > margin:0 0 1em 0;}

> >

> > > #ygrp-tpmsgs{

> >

> > > font-family: Arial;

> >

> > > clear:both;}

> >

> > > #ygrp-vitnav{

> >

> > > padding-top: 10px;font- family:Verdana; font-size: 77%;margin:

> 0;}

> >

> > > #ygrp-vitnav a{

> >

> > > padding:0 1px;}

> >

> > > #ygrp-actbar{

> >

> > > clear:both;margin: 25px 0;white-space: nowrap;color: #666;text-

> >

> > align:right; }

> >

> > > #ygrp-actbar .left{

> >

> > > float:left;white- space:nowrap; }

> >

> > > .bld{font-weight: bold;}

> >

> > > #ygrp-grft{

> >

> > > font-family: Verdana;font- size:77%; padding:15px 0;}

> >

> > > #ygrp-ft{

> >

> > > font-family: verdana;font- size:77%; border-top: 1px solid #666;

> >

> > > padding:5px 0;

> >

> > > }

> >

> > > #ygrp-mlmsg #logo{

> >

> > > padding-bottom: 10px;}

> >

> > >

> >

> > > #ygrp-vital{

> >

> > > background-color: #e0ecee;margin- bottom:20px; padding:2px 0

8px

> 8px;}

> >

> > > #ygrp-vital #vithd{

> >

> > > font-size:77% ;font-family: Verdana;font- weight:bold;

> color:#333; text-

> >

> > transform:uppercase ;}

> >

> > > #ygrp-vital ul{

> >

> > > padding:0;margin: 2px 0;}

> >

> > > #ygrp-vital ul li{

> >

> > > list-style-type: none;clear: both;border: 1px solid #e0ecee;

> >

> > > }

> >

> > > #ygrp-vital ul li .ct{

> >

> > > font-weight: bold;color: #ff7900;float: right;width: 2em;text-

> >

> > align:right; padding-right: .5em;}

> >

> > > #ygrp-vital ul li .cat{

> >

> > > font-weight: bold;}

> >

> > > #ygrp-vital a{

> >

> > > text-decoration: none;}

> >

> > >

> >

> > > #ygrp-vital a:hover{

> >

> > > text-decoration: underline; }

> >

> > >

> >

> > > #ygrp-sponsor #hd{

> >

> > > color:#999;font- size:77%; }

> >

> > > #ygrp-sponsor #ov{

> >

> > > padding:6px 13px;background- color:#e0ecee; margin-bottom:

20px;}

> >

> > > #ygrp-sponsor #ov ul{

> >

> > > padding:0 0 0 8px;margin:0; }

> >

> > > #ygrp-sponsor #ov li{

> >

> > > list-style-type: square;padding: 6px 0;font-size: 77%;}

> >

> > > #ygrp-sponsor #ov li a{

> >

> > > text-decoration: none;font- size:130% ;}

> >

> > > #ygrp-sponsor #nc{

> >

> > > background-color: #eee;margin- bottom:20px; padding:0 8px;}

> >

> > > #ygrp-sponsor .ad{

> >

> > > padding:8px 0;}

> >

> > > #ygrp-sponsor .ad #hd1{

> >

> > > font-family: Arial;font- weight:bold; color:#628c2a; font-

> >

> > size:100%;line- height:122% ;}

> >

> > > #ygrp-sponsor .ad a{

> >

> > > text-decoration: none;}

> >

> > > #ygrp-sponsor .ad a:hover{

> >

> > > text-decoration: underline; }

> >

> > > #ygrp-sponsor .ad p{

> >

> > > margin:0;}

> >

> > > o{font-size: 0;}

> >

> > > .MsoNormal{

> >

> > > margin:0 0 0 0;}

> >

> > > #ygrp-text tt{

> >

> > > font-size:120% ;}

> >

> > > blockquote{margin: 0 0 0 4px;}

> >

> > > .replbq{margin: 4;}

> >

> > > -->

> >

> > >

> >

> > >

> >

> > >

> >

> > >

> >

> > >

> >

> > >

> >

> > >

> >

> > >

> >

> > > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________

> _________ _

> >

> > > Answers - Got a question? Someone out there knows the

> >

> > answer. Try it

> >

> > > now.

> >

> > > http://uk.answers. /

> >

> > >

> >

> > >

October 12, 2007

There is infinite complexity if you want to get into it. Of course that's a

type of yang.

Hugo

establishment_man <establishment_man

Chinese Medicine

Thursday, 11 October, 2007 4:17:14 PM

Re: AGAIN IN YANG , not YIN and YANG.

Hugo,

What about the Yang that decomposes the body? Is that the body's

Yang? Or is that the Yang of the bacteria and micro organisms?

What do people think?

EM

Traditional_ Chinese_Medicine , Hugo Ramiro

<subincor@.. .> wrote:

>

> Hi,

> The Yang, which is in charge of animating the body in this

example, is no longer in the body. It is gone.

> Ceases to exist? We'd have to get into definitions and such.

David brought up the Yuan shen, which is not destroyed. However,

other aspects of " yang " such as the corporeal souls, leave the body

and dissolve. If I'm getting that right. Corrections welcome.

>

> Hugo

>

> establishment_ man <establishment_ man

>

> Thursday, 11 October, 2007 2:00:41 PM

> Re: AGAIN IN YANG , not YIN and YANG.

>

> Hugo,

>

> What do you mean by, " The Yang is Gone? "

>

> Do you mean that that the Yang that previously animated the body

is

>

> no longer attached to a particular person?

>

> Or do you mean that the Yang ceases to exist?

>

> EM

>

> ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -

>

<!--

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October 12, 2007

Hi Hugo,

Everybody is concerning about the Yang leaving the body when the

body is dead and the Yang, this is an interesting subject, but we

should look into this as in science.

All living things are created from atoms or from bigger things call

cells, tissues, organs, systems... One thing is to remember, energy is

not creatable nor destroyable. Again, I bring this up because it is

essential to us as TCM in diagnosis and in treatments " EACH ENERGY OR

EACH PRODUCT OF QI HAS ITS OWN FUNCTION. "

We do not destroy or harm other energy. Let's look at the sample

here. As we are human being after death, our body will be decomposed

or being decayed into atoms just as a chemical reactions in nature.

As an example :

H2O --> H2 + 0

WATER --> gives us gas + gas

CH4 + 2( 02 ) --> CO2 + 2( H20 )

methane with Oxy --> gives us Carbon dioxide + water

gas with gas --> gives us gas + liquid

In the beginning there was emptiness, in this emptytness the world

was without form because it was full of gasses, all kinds of elements

and atoms in chaos. In times these gasses are getting together and

formed a world,the stars the universe ,and the galaxy. They the stars

are far away but they are in order in an organized position. Each one

has its own function and its own position I believe.

In our view we see the above sample with our simple known

chemicals. They are gasses combined or joined together to give us a

form or forms of different gas or gasses and with liquid or solid ( in

complicate forms ) and each one we named differently in our own terms.

Some gasses combined would give us either different combinations of

gas ( methane CH4 ) , liquid ( H20 ) or and solid ...... Are their

original properties being destroyed when they are in different forms

?????????? Of course, not. They are being transformed into another

form, each of them. When there are time, they will separate their

partners and then combine with other atoms or into other groups of

atoms to give birth into another form and function according to a

group of its own.

Let's see this as an actual view. We are as individuals, getting to

gether to form TCM forum. This forum acts as a special tasks of

joining and sharing our own information in TCM. If this group is no

longer here, does it mean everyone of us has died? No ! We still alive

and not all, one or some of us can join other teams or create

different team such as " AAT- American Acupuncture Today " as an

example. Hey, there is another new living group, a living body.

This is an example of Hugo I believed he means this way. If a body

( an organism )is dead , its spirit ( individuals ) is or are leaving

the body. These spirits are not dead..... That is what I see.

Atoms join and separate, come and go , and create infinitve forms

with infinitive functions and we must comes up with infinitive names.

They never cease to exist, never die !!!!!!!!!!!!!!! FOR SCIENCE

STATED THIS ENERGY CANNOT BE CREATED NOR DESTROYED.

In TCM, we must look at YANG ( individuals ) not at YIN ( as

organzation ). YIN has a name, but it funcions depend on YANG (

individuals )....... IF the entire team is dead ( everyone decided to

disjoin ), but only one member holds on to it and wants to recreate or

revitalize this organization, he can. He may advertise, put more

efforts into this and get more people to join. This takes time, but it

can be done!!!!!!!!!!!!! REVITALZIE !!! WE can revitalize any human

being if there is a YANG element! Unfortunately, we do not know how.

What we have done. We usually try to destroy it further before it

regather. We clear heat ( sedate ), extinguish wind...

Thanks Hugo,

Nam Nguyen

October 12, 2007

It does not return to the source, its already part of the source.

In physical form, our senses and perceptions can be viewed as yin

and yang, as all things can, the " consciousness " unique to this form

is one way to view the 3-hun/7-po model.

As I mentioned this is a big topic, if a whole theory is not

presented then we all just chase this and chase that and really

waste lots of time without discussing the whole theory.

regards,

david

Chinese Medicine , " d.daley "

<d.daley wrote:

>

> Hello,

>

> The Yang leaves the body, but is not gone. It, just as the Yin

does

> later, returns to its source, the Tao. It is energy, which can

never

> be destroyed, only changed and reused.

>

Chinese Medicine , " flyingstarsfengshui "

> <flyingstarsfengshui@> wrote:

> >

> > Hi Hugo:

> >

> > This is a very big topic and the classic medical books only

scratch

> > the surface, many of the greatest Chinese medical physicians

were

> > alchemists, spiritual alchemists, including Ge Hong, one of the

all

> > time greats.

> >

> > In the model of Hun-Po, Hun is Yang and Po is Yin. There are

many

> > ways to view this model. You mention 7-po, in that model these

are

> 7-

> > Yin Souls, one can view them as the seven physical senses we

must

> > learn to live with in a health way: 2-eyes-sight, 2-ears-

hearing, 1-

> > nose-smelling, 1-mouth-taste, 1-genital-sexuality. Other unite

the

> 7-

> > po with seven stages of evolution or development and their

> > correspondences to the Acupuncture point/energy/chakra system.

> There

> > are lots of ways this model is used but the meaning behind them

is

> > the pretty much the same.

> >

> > regards,

> > david

> >

> > Chinese Medicine , Hugo Ramiro

> > <subincor@> wrote:

> > >

> > > Hi,

> > > The Yang, which is in charge of animating the body in this

> > example, is no longer in the body. It is gone.

> > > Ceases to exist? We'd have to get into definitions and such.

> > David brought up the Yuan shen, which is not destroyed. However,

> > other aspects of " yang " such as the corporeal souls, leave the

body

> > and dissolve. If I'm getting that right. Corrections welcome.

> > >

> > > Hugo

> > >

> > > establishment_man <establishment_man@>

> > > Chinese Medicine

> > > Thursday, 11 October, 2007 2:00:41 PM

> > > Re: AGAIN IN YANG , not YIN and YANG.

> > >

> > > Hugo,

> > >

> > > What do you mean by, " The Yang is Gone? "

> > >

> > > Do you mean that that the Yang that previously animated the

body

> > is

> > >

> > > no longer attached to a particular person?

> > >

> > > Or do you mean that the Yang ceases to exist?

> > >

> > > EM

> > >

> > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- ---------

-

> > >

> > > Traditional_ Chinese_Medicine , Hugo

> > Ramiro

> > >

> > > <subincor@ .> wrote:

> > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > > Hey come on guys, get his point. When a person dies, their

yin

> > >

> > > remains, but the yang is gone. The last moments of life are

the

> > >

> > > final flares of yang. There is an important point there about

the

> > >

> > > closeness of " yang " to life, versus the yin of a ball of rock

> like

> > >

> > > the moon.

> > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > > Hugo

> > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > > Christopher Vedeler L.Ac. <vedeler@ >

> > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > > Wednesday, 10 October, 2007 3:25:18 PM

> > >

> > > > RE: AGAIN IN YANG , not YIN and YANG.

> > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > > I don't agree that Yang is more important than

> Yin.

> > >

> > > It is like saying

> > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > > that your right leg is more important than your left leg.

> > Without

> > >

> > > both

> > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > > you can't walk. Without Yin, Yang has no way to manifest,

like

> > >

> > > heat it

> > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > > just radiates away into the void. With the mix of Yin and

Yang

> > in

> > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > > harmony life can exist and flourish.

> > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > > Christopher Vedeler L.Ac.

> > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > > Oasis Acupuncture

> > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > > http://www.oasisacu puncture. com

> > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > > 9832 N. Hayden Rd.

> > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > > Suite 215

> > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > > Scottsdale, AZ 85258

> > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > > Phone: (480) 991-3650

> > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > >

> > >

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> > >

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> > >

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> > >

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> 8px

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> > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________

> > _________ _

> > >

> > > > Answers - Got a question? Someone out there knows the

> > >

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October 14, 2007

Hi yandy, i would be very interested in having this material, could you

please send it to me?

juan

yandy_mail escribió:

>

> Hi Nam or others,

> if you like to read da bao lun (in chinese), I could send it to your

> mailbox in pdf format.

>

> Cheers,

> Yandy

>

> Catch up on fall's hot new shows on TV. Watch previews, get

> listings, and more!

>

October 15, 2007

Christopher,

I first became aware of this issue in a commentary to the Shang

Han Lun, that stated that one must supplement yang to nourish yin,

using medicinals such as ginger/gan jiang and cinnamon/gui zhi.

According to this commentary, one cannot nourish yin with mobilizing

the mechanisms to produce yin qi, involving the qi transformation and

separation of clear and turbid qi.

According to the Yi Jing, " the great initiating force, the

source, the beginning of the ten thousand things " is Heaven, which is

yang. Its hexagram, Qian, is six yang lines. So in classical

Chinese thought, while yin and yang are both essential, yin follows

yang, the activating and directing principle.

On Oct 10, 2007, at 3:25 PM, Christopher Vedeler L.Ac. wrote:

> I don't agree that Yang is more important than Yin. It is like saying

> that your right leg is more important than your left leg. Without both

> you can't walk. Without Yin, Yang has no way to manifest, like heat it

> just radiates away into the void. With the mix of Yin and Yang in

> harmony life can exist and flourish.

>

> Christopher Vedeler L.Ac.

> Oasis Acupuncture

> http://www.oasisacupuncture.com

> 9832 N. Hayden Rd.

> Suite 215

> Scottsdale, AZ 85258

> Phone: (480) 991-3650

>

Chair, Department of Herbal Medicine

Pacific College of Oriental Medicine

San Diego, Ca. 92122

AGAIN IN YANG , not YIN and YANG.

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