Missing keys in Gouts treatments ???

[Guest guest]

Dear all colleagues,

 

MISSING SOME KEYS IN GOUTS DIAGNOSIS AND TREATMENTS :

Acute on set, most of them are Yang condition. Yang syndrome will

be seen on appearance ( lively, full energy, radiantly … strong and

full, fast , red … ) and in upperjao ( Heart and Lung ).

Heart and Lung are places of Qi and fire : Qi for breathing and

exchanging and moving air ( chemical gases in-out ) in the upper

body. Fire : for exchanging of gases, fire, appears quickly. Fire

moves out and expands ( skin and face )

In the upperjiao the manifestation from the top to the upper

chest are : Headache, confusion, mental ( mind or shen ), dizziness,

vertigo, tinnitus, sinuses, blurred vision, thirst, cancer sores,

Bel's Palsy, meningitis, stiff neck , shoulder pain , chest pain …. If

these symptoms are acute or in sudden, the pulses should be :

Floating, full or flooding.

But what about the acute arthritis of GOUTS? A sudden onset of

SEVERE pain at the toes, elbows, hips, or knees ? In this case, is

this relating to excess ( fire and Qi ) ? Some cases have been seen in

clinic with slippery-fast pulses, not floating, and slippery wet

tongue, no other manifestation such as headaches nor abdominal pain.

 

Patient, male age 64 , had been hospitalized twice by GOUT

medication before acupuncture treatments. During the acupuncture

therapy, patient was asked to stay away from GOUT medication.

Gouts are the uric acids redidual, comes from purine diet. These

purine must be dissolved and excreted into urination. In this case,

diet related to Postnatal Qi ( SP-STO ), and excretion ( Prenatal

Ki-Ub ) we cannot ignore the root. The manifestation are at He-Lu (

acute onset ).

At first , I chose SP9 ( tonification ) the pain subsided

immediately, but this pain returned in 3 days. I chose the same point

SP9 again on the next treatment, the pain disappeared and returned

again in a few days eventhough the Craneberry juice were added (

3cups/day ). I must change my therapy and my diagnosis.

SP9 ( dissolve food, damp or phlegm ), Ren6 ( for excretion of

urine ), L7 ( regulating Qi of upperjiao and lowerjiao -connecting to

K6 –Ren6 was chosen ). Corn silks was prescribed, some foods must be

avoided ( red meat, tomatoes, avocado, eggplants, eggs, animal livers,

sweet foods, spicy foods ) for at least 5 days. This treatment had

been relieving the toe pain for at least 4 months from today….

The first therapy was not my desire for its short life

effectiveness. Was this happened because I ignored and not complete

the diagnosis ( He-Lu Qi , acute )? More points were added , the

result yielded and lasted longer………… Is this because of the ACUTE (

He-Lu ) points were added ??????????????? ANY INPUTS ?

 

GOOD LUCK TO ALL IF YOU RUN ACROSS THE SAME CASE " GOUTS "

 

Nam Nguyen

[Guest guest]

I, too, have seen cases like this. However, they were induced by the

use of Cumudin and the diuretics prescribed. Has anyone else run into

this?

 

I was able to keep the gout away but the patient's refusal to ask the

doctor to change medication and ultimate despair led to kidney failure.

[Guest guest]

Dear Dr. Nguyen,

In my experience, results are best achieved when simultaneously treating the

constitutional as you do, PLUS move Qi & blood along the affected

meridians. For example, when gout manifests at the big toe, I needle SP1,

SP3, LV1, LV3. (bleed Lv1, Sp1 jing-well in acute episode). i sometimes add

Master Tung WuHu (five tigers) points for enhanced effect. also, i do a few

minutes tui-na or guasha upstream and downstream from the pain (but not

directly on the painful spot as it can be unbearable for the patient and

also increase redness and inflammation if acute).

 

On reading your point prescription, i think your addition of KD6 is helpful

far beyond just enhancing the LU7 function. First of all, it's moving Qi

along the medial aspect of the foot. Also, YinQiao meridian is indicated

for: 1) inversion of the foot (which i often see with patients with all

kinds of big toe pain, gout included. your patient may be similar?), 2)

retention of urine, and 3) digestive complaints, etc... So perhaps those

are the reasons why the later treatment got much better results?

 

glad to hear your patient is doing well.

~edith

 

--

Edith Chan, L.Ac.

Phone: 415.298.5324

www.EdithChanAcupuncture.com

 

On 10/6/07, dr_namnguyen58 <dr_namnguyen58 wrote:

>

> Dear all colleagues,

>

> MISSING SOME KEYS IN GOUTS DIAGNOSIS AND TREATMENTS :

> Acute on set, most of them are Yang condition. Yang syndrome will

> be seen on appearance ( lively, full energy, radiantly … strong and

> full, fast , red … ) and in upperjao ( Heart and Lung ).

> Heart and Lung are places of Qi and fire : Qi for breathing and

> exchanging and moving air ( chemical gases in-out ) in the upper

> body. Fire : for exchanging of gases, fire, appears quickly. Fire

> moves out and expands ( skin and face )

> In the upperjiao the manifestation from the top to the upper

> chest are : Headache, confusion, mental ( mind or shen ), dizziness,

> vertigo, tinnitus, sinuses, blurred vision, thirst, cancer sores,

> Bel's Palsy, meningitis, stiff neck , shoulder pain , chest pain …. If

> these symptoms are acute or in sudden, the pulses should be :

> Floating, full or flooding.

> But what about the acute arthritis of GOUTS? A sudden onset of

> SEVERE pain at the toes, elbows, hips, or knees ? In this case, is

> this relating to excess ( fire and Qi ) ? Some cases have been seen in

> clinic with slippery-fast pulses, not floating, and slippery wet

> tongue, no other manifestation such as headaches nor abdominal pain.

>

> Patient, male age 64 , had been hospitalized twice by GOUT

> medication before acupuncture treatments. During the acupuncture

> therapy, patient was asked to stay away from GOUT medication.

> Gouts are the uric acids redidual, comes from purine diet. These

> purine must be dissolved and excreted into urination. In this case,

> diet related to Postnatal Qi ( SP-STO ), and excretion ( Prenatal

> Ki-Ub ) we cannot ignore the root. The manifestation are at He-Lu (

> acute onset ).

> At first , I chose SP9 ( tonification ) the pain subsided

> immediately, but this pain returned in 3 days. I chose the same point

> SP9 again on the next treatment, the pain disappeared and returned

> again in a few days eventhough the Craneberry juice were added (

> 3cups/day ). I must change my therapy and my diagnosis.

> SP9 ( dissolve food, damp or phlegm ), Ren6 ( for excretion of

> urine ), L7 ( regulating Qi of upperjiao and lowerjiao -connecting to

> K6 –Ren6 was chosen ). Corn silks was prescribed, some foods must be

> avoided ( red meat, tomatoes, avocado, eggplants, eggs, animal livers,

> sweet foods, spicy foods ) for at least 5 days. This treatment had

> been relieving the toe pain for at least 4 months from today….

> The first therapy was not my desire for its short life

> effectiveness. Was this happened because I ignored and not complete

> the diagnosis ( He-Lu Qi , acute )? More points were added , the

> result yielded and lasted longer………… Is this because of the ACUTE (

> He-Lu ) points were added ??????????????? ANY INPUTS ?

>

> GOOD LUCK TO ALL IF YOU RUN ACROSS THE SAME CASE " GOUTS "

>

> Nam Nguyen

>

>

>

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Hi Edith,

Your input is greatly appreciated. Please share your

experience here with our colleague, we may have some

inputs from others and we will grow stronger from

there.

My experience has shown a significant improvement

which lasted a long time. However, I will try your

method in a next case to see whether there will be any

difference.

 

Thanks to you Edith ! It is my pleasure.

 

Nam Nguyen

 

 

 

--- " Edith Chan, L.Ac. " <chineseherbs

wrote:

 

> Dear Dr. Nguyen,

> In my experience, results are best achieved when

> simultaneously treating the

> constitutional as you do, PLUS move Qi & blood along

> the affected

> meridians. For example, when gout manifests at the

> big toe, I needle SP1,

> SP3, LV1, LV3. (bleed Lv1, Sp1 jing-well in acute

> episode). i sometimes add

> Master Tung WuHu (five tigers) points for enhanced

> effect. also, i do a few

> minutes tui-na or guasha upstream and downstream

> from the pain (but not

> directly on the painful spot as it can be unbearable

> for the patient and

> also increase redness and inflammation if acute).

>

> On reading your point prescription, i think your

> addition of KD6 is helpful

> far beyond just enhancing the LU7 function. First of

> all, it's moving Qi

> along the medial aspect of the foot. Also, YinQiao

> meridian is indicated

> for: 1) inversion of the foot (which i often see

> with patients with all

> kinds of big toe pain, gout included. your patient

> may be similar?), 2)

> retention of urine, and 3) digestive complaints,

> etc... So perhaps those

> are the reasons why the later treatment got much

> better results?

>

> glad to hear your patient is doing well.

> ~edith

>

> --

> Edith Chan, L.Ac.

> Phone: 415.298.5324

> www.EdithChanAcupuncture.com

>

> On 10/6/07, dr_namnguyen58

> <dr_namnguyen58 wrote:

> >

> > Dear all colleagues,

> >

> > MISSING SOME KEYS IN GOUTS DIAGNOSIS AND

> TREATMENTS :

> > Acute on set, most of them are Yang condition.

> Yang syndrome will

> > be seen on appearance ( lively, full energy,

> radiantly … strong and

> > full, fast , red … ) and in upperjao ( Heart and

> Lung ).

> > Heart and Lung are places of Qi and fire : Qi for

> breathing and

> > exchanging and moving air ( chemical gases in-out

> ) in the upper

> > body. Fire : for exchanging of gases, fire,

> appears quickly. Fire

> > moves out and expands ( skin and face )

> > In the upperjiao the manifestation from the top to

> the upper

> > chest are : Headache, confusion, mental ( mind or

> shen ), dizziness,

> > vertigo, tinnitus, sinuses, blurred vision,

> thirst, cancer sores,

> > Bel's Palsy, meningitis, stiff neck , shoulder

> pain , chest pain …. If

> > these symptoms are acute or in sudden, the pulses

> should be :

> > Floating, full or flooding.

> > But what about the acute arthritis of GOUTS? A

> sudden onset of

> > SEVERE pain at the toes, elbows, hips, or knees ?

> In this case, is

> > this relating to excess ( fire and Qi ) ? Some

> cases have been seen in

> > clinic with slippery-fast pulses, not floating,

> and slippery wet

> > tongue, no other manifestation such as headaches

> nor abdominal pain.

> >

> > Patient, male age 64 , had been hospitalized twice

> by GOUT

> > medication before acupuncture treatments. During

> the acupuncture

> > therapy, patient was asked to stay away from GOUT

> medication.

> > Gouts are the uric acids redidual, comes from

> purine diet. These

> > purine must be dissolved and excreted into

> urination. In this case,

> > diet related to Postnatal Qi ( SP-STO ), and

> excretion ( Prenatal

> > Ki-Ub ) we cannot ignore the root. The

> manifestation are at He-Lu (

> > acute onset ).

> > At first , I chose SP9 ( tonification ) the pain

> subsided

> > immediately, but this pain returned in 3 days. I

> chose the same point

> > SP9 again on the next treatment, the pain

> disappeared and returned

> > again in a few days eventhough the Craneberry

> juice were added (

> > 3cups/day ). I must change my therapy and my

> diagnosis.

> > SP9 ( dissolve food, damp or phlegm ), Ren6 ( for

> excretion of

> > urine ), L7 ( regulating Qi of upperjiao and

> lowerjiao -connecting to

> > K6 –Ren6 was chosen ). Corn silks was prescribed,

> some foods must be

> > avoided ( red meat, tomatoes, avocado, eggplants,

> eggs, animal livers,

> > sweet foods, spicy foods ) for at least 5 days.

> This treatment had

> > been relieving the toe pain for at least 4 months

> from today….

> > The first therapy was not my desire for its short

> life

> > effectiveness. Was this happened because I ignored

> and not complete

> > the diagnosis ( He-Lu Qi , acute )? More points

> were added , the

> > result yielded and lasted longer………… Is this

> because of the ACUTE (

> > He-Lu ) points were added ??????????????? ANY

> INPUTS ?

> >

> > GOOD LUCK TO ALL IF YOU RUN ACROSS THE SAME CASE "

> GOUTS "

> >

> > Nam Nguyen

> >

> >

> >

>

>

> [Non-text portions of this message have been

> removed]

>

>

>

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