Guest guest Posted October 3, 2007 Report Share Posted October 3, 2007 Hello to everyone reading and writing. I'm hoping to connect with some people who may have gone through the same struggle i am going through right now who may have some helpful comments. I am an acupuncturist practicing in NZ and work on my own with no peers. I have had good training in China and great teachers but i am a novice by all standards (1 or 2 years practicing). This last year of practice has brought up so many struggles for me and i wondered if they are normal or not. I have a few main areas of concern. Does anyone have any HELPFUL comments/experience to share. 1.On Average how many treatments do you all suggest are needed for a patient before seeing results? Is it normal that i may have seen more than one patient for more than 10 sessions with no major results? how do you guys deal with this? DO you even get this? Acupuncture is not cheap and i'm not doing the profession any favours with these results (my diagnosis and treatment have been supported by well respected practitioners too by the way as i have contacted them for support). 2. How much self doubt do you guys go through when treating patients? I can see for me, a certain amount inspires me to learn more and the rest gets me down. 3. DO you have any tips on patient education? For example how to explain things in TCM terms to someone who is an open doubter and sees/feels no effects of the sessions. I think you can get where I'm coming from right now. Can anyone be supportive? Does it sound like i need a new job? If anyone is interested in helping i would love to share a case history or two. Maybe you can see where i am going wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 3, 2007 Report Share Posted October 3, 2007 I think what your going through is very normal. I friend pointed out to me the reason our practice is called a practice. You are not going to have great results with every single patient, it is a learning process and you will doubt yourself. It does get easier with time and I can relate as I live out in the middle of noware. --- corotcm <corotcm wrote: > Hello to everyone reading and writing. > I'm hoping to connect with some people who may have > gone through the > same struggle i am going through right now who may > have some helpful > comments. I am an acupuncturist practicing in NZ and > work on my own > with no peers. I have had good training in China and > great teachers > but i am a novice by all standards (1 or 2 years > practicing). This > last year of practice has brought up so many > struggles for me and i > wondered if they are normal or not. I have a few > main areas of > concern. Does anyone have any HELPFUL > comments/experience to share. > > 1.On Average how many treatments do you all suggest > are needed for a > patient before seeing results? Is it normal that i > may have seen more > than one patient for more than 10 sessions with no > major results? how > do you guys deal with this? DO you even get this? > Acupuncture is not > cheap and i'm not doing the profession any favours > with these results > (my diagnosis and treatment have been supported by > well respected > practitioners too by the way as i have contacted > them for support). > > 2. How much self doubt do you guys go through when > treating patients? > I can see for me, a certain amount inspires me to > learn more and the > rest gets me down. > > 3. DO you have any tips on patient education? For > example how to > explain things in TCM terms to someone who is an > open doubter and > sees/feels no effects of the sessions. > > I think you can get where I'm coming from right now. > Can anyone be > supportive? Does it sound like i need a new job? If > anyone is > interested in helping i would love to share a case > history or two. > Maybe you can see where i am going wrong. > > ______________________________\ ____ Be a better Globetrotter. Get better travel answers from someone who knows. Answers - Check it out. http://answers./dir/?link=list & sid=396545469 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 4, 2007 Report Share Posted October 4, 2007 Hi! Yes, doubts are normal. I can go through [phases of having " real stunning results " with my clietns and then a clients comes with whom I seem to get nowhere. I see it as a good anti-dote against becoming too " arrogant " ... Artemis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 4, 2007 Report Share Posted October 4, 2007 Ten treatments with NO changes can be very disheartening for both needler and needlee. Without any information on the condition, constitution, or treatment protocol it is hard to be of any direct help or even comment on things other than broad generalities. Even if there is no change in the condition of concern, by 10 treatments I would expect changes of SOME type: digestion? elimination? sleep? muscle tone? outlook/attitude? Do you feel you have a good understanding of the client's organ health/function? Is the client actively doing things that worsen their condition (diet, other intake, activities)? Is the client pointedly negative about what you are doing? Do they have a vested interest in your failure? Do they WANT to have their health condition change? Is the client AWARE of their true health condition? Does the client recognize how their health issues negatively impact all aspects of their life? Have you changed the client's diet? Are they taking appropriate herbs? Every once in a while, you will encounter someone who you cannot help (for one reason or another). Learn what you can from them and the situation, and move on...maybe you know someone you can refer them to. Dwelling on the lack of change for a person you can not help will hamstring you from helping those you can. Mark Z Chinese Medicine , " corotcm " <corotcm wrote: > > Hello to everyone reading and writing. > I'm hoping to connect with some people who may have gone through the > same struggle i am going through right now who may have some helpful > comments. I am an acupuncturist practicing in NZ and work on my own > with no peers. I have had good training in China and great teachers > but i am a novice by all standards (1 or 2 years practicing). This > last year of practice has brought up so many struggles for me and i > wondered if they are normal or not. I have a few main areas of > concern. Does anyone have any HELPFUL comments/experience to share. > > 1.On Average how many treatments do you all suggest are needed for a > patient before seeing results? Is it normal that i may have seen more > than one patient for more than 10 sessions with no major results? how > do you guys deal with this? DO you even get this? Acupuncture is not > cheap and i'm not doing the profession any favours with these results > (my diagnosis and treatment have been supported by well respected > practitioners too by the way as i have contacted them for support). > > 2. How much self doubt do you guys go through when treating patients? > I can see for me, a certain amount inspires me to learn more and the > rest gets me down. > > 3. DO you have any tips on patient education? For example how to > explain things in TCM terms to someone who is an open doubter and > sees/feels no effects of the sessions. > > I think you can get where I'm coming from right now. Can anyone be > supportive? Does it sound like i need a new job? If anyone is > interested in helping i would love to share a case history or two. > Maybe you can see where i am going wrong. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 4, 2007 Report Share Posted October 4, 2007 i think we all go through these questions we we begin practicing TCM. 1. in my experience, some patients notice improvement after the first treatment. by the third tx they are beginning to see improvement, maybe not in the chief complaint, but they are noticing sx getting better. by visit 5-7 the patient and i both feel confident that they are responding well to tx. the condition will probably require continued tx, but we both know we are on the right track. 2. at your point in clinic exp, i was still constantly double checking everything i did, and breathing a big sigh of relief every time a new patient started getting better. but sometime after i began getting enough clinical experience behind me that i realized i am a competent practitioner, and began trusting my knowledge and abilities. (more confidence, fewer self-doubts). 3. i find that most patients come in with an open mind, looking forward to getting results. occasionally one comes along (through the yellow pages) who is sceptical. honestly, i find a pessimistic attitude hinders tx. those are the folks who are more likely to not respond, or to respond more slowly. you can go to the acupuncture page of my website, www.acupunctureasheville.com to see how i explain the mechanism of acupuncture. 4. why don't you post a case history to the group, and see what others have to share? hang in there, kath On 10/3/07, corotcm <corotcm wrote: > > Hello to everyone reading and writing. > I'm hoping to connect with some people who may have gone through the > same struggle i am going through right now who may have some helpful > comments. I am an acupuncturist practicing in NZ and work on my own > with no peers. I have had good training in China and great teachers > but i am a novice by all standards (1 or 2 years practicing). This > last year of practice has brought up so many struggles for me and i > wondered if they are normal or not. I have a few main areas of > concern. Does anyone have any HELPFUL comments/experience to share. > > 1.On Average how many treatments do you all suggest are needed for a > patient before seeing results? Is it normal that i may have seen more > than one patient for more than 10 sessions with no major results? how > do you guys deal with this? DO you even get this? Acupuncture is not > cheap and i'm not doing the profession any favours with these results > (my diagnosis and treatment have been supported by well respected > practitioners too by the way as i have contacted them for support). > > 2. How much self doubt do you guys go through when treating patients? > I can see for me, a certain amount inspires me to learn more and the > rest gets me down. > > 3. DO you have any tips on patient education? For example how to > explain things in TCM terms to someone who is an open doubter and > sees/feels no effects of the sessions. > > I think you can get where I'm coming from right now. Can anyone be > supportive? Does it sound like i need a new job? If anyone is > interested in helping i would love to share a case history or two. > Maybe you can see where i am going wrong. > > > -- Kath Bartlett, LAc, MS, BA UCLA Oriental Medicine Experienced, Dedicated, Effective Asheville Center For 70 Woodfin Place, Suite West Wing Two Asheville, NC 28801 828.258.2777 kbartlett www.AcupunctureAsheville.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 4, 2007 Report Share Posted October 4, 2007 Thank you for writing that Kath. I feel like I am constantly questioning myself and wanting reasurrence from others, which is why I write asking questions so much. I also am finding that the longer I am in practice the more I see the big picture and know the right questions to ask. Everyone in this group has really helped with that, pointing out things that I had not thought of, so thank you group. --- " " wrote: > i think we all go through these questions we we > begin practicing TCM. > > 1. in my experience, some patients notice > improvement after the first > treatment. by the third tx they are beginning to see > improvement, maybe not > in the chief complaint, but they are noticing sx > getting better. by visit > 5-7 the patient and i both feel confident that they > are responding well to > tx. the condition will probably require continued > tx, but we both know we > are on the right track. > > 2. at your point in clinic exp, i was still > constantly double checking > everything i did, and breathing a big sigh of relief > every time a new > patient started getting better. but sometime after > i began getting enough > clinical experience behind me that i realized i am a > competent practitioner, > and began trusting my knowledge and abilities. > (more confidence, fewer > self-doubts). > > 3. i find that most patients come in with an open > mind, looking forward to > getting results. occasionally one comes along > (through the yellow > pages) who is sceptical. honestly, i find a > pessimistic attitude hinders > tx. those are the folks who are more likely to not > respond, or to respond > more slowly. you can go to the acupuncture page of > my website, > www.acupunctureasheville.com to see how i explain > the mechanism of > acupuncture. > > 4. why don't you post a case history to the group, > and see what others have > to share? > > hang in there, > > kath > > > On 10/3/07, corotcm <corotcm wrote: > > > > Hello to everyone reading and writing. > > I'm hoping to connect with some people who may > have gone through the > > same struggle i am going through right now who may > have some helpful > > comments. I am an acupuncturist practicing in NZ > and work on my own > > with no peers. I have had good training in China > and great teachers > > but i am a novice by all standards (1 or 2 years > practicing). This > > last year of practice has brought up so many > struggles for me and i > > wondered if they are normal or not. I have a few > main areas of > > concern. Does anyone have any HELPFUL > comments/experience to share. > > > > 1.On Average how many treatments do you all > suggest are needed for a > > patient before seeing results? Is it normal that i > may have seen more > > than one patient for more than 10 sessions with no > major results? how > > do you guys deal with this? DO you even get this? > Acupuncture is not > > cheap and i'm not doing the profession any favours > with these results > > (my diagnosis and treatment have been supported by > well respected > > practitioners too by the way as i have contacted > them for support). > > > > 2. How much self doubt do you guys go through when > treating patients? > > I can see for me, a certain amount inspires me to > learn more and the > > rest gets me down. > > > > 3. DO you have any tips on patient education? For > example how to > > explain things in TCM terms to someone who is an > open doubter and > > sees/feels no effects of the sessions. > > > > I think you can get where I'm coming from right > now. Can anyone be > > supportive? Does it sound like i need a new job? > If anyone is > > interested in helping i would love to share a case > history or two. > > Maybe you can see where i am going wrong. > > > > > > > > > > -- > Kath Bartlett, LAc, MS, BA UCLA > Oriental Medicine > Experienced, Dedicated, Effective > > Asheville Center For > 70 Woodfin Place, Suite West Wing Two > Asheville, NC 28801 828.258.2777 > kbartlett > www.AcupunctureAsheville.com > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > removed] > > ______________________________\ ____ Don't let your dream ride pass you by. Make it a reality with Autos. http://autos./index.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 4, 2007 Report Share Posted October 4, 2007 Hello, It is not something that is easy to admit but when we are happy that our clients get better isn't it part also because it makes us feel good about our skills as practionners? I remember one of my Shiatsu teachers telling us " Keep it simple, just give the best treatment you can. Don't even hope for the client to get better, that's already complicating things " . Artemis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 4, 2007 Report Share Posted October 4, 2007 Dear _________ (you didn't sign your name) Reading your post, I think a great deal of what you are experiencing is pretty typical for a relatively new practitioner. I'm just starting my 6th year of practice, and your post gave me opportunity to reflect on my own struggles, and how they have been slowly shifting. One of the things I remember from one of my teachers, is that the patient will be able to assess for themselves by the third treatment whether or not they are receiving benefits from treatment. I explain to my patients that their benefits may show up first in areas that seem unrelated to their chief complaint, and that any improvement is an indication of positive progress. I give them a printout of how to evaluate progress in the following 3 parameters: 1) symptoms are less intense; 2) symptoms occur less frequently; 3) symptoms last for a shorter period of time when they do occur. I tell them that progress can occur in any or all of these parameters. I also ask them to keep track of how long they experience improvement after each treatment. In this way, they feel they have some personally " real " way to measure and evaluate the value of treatment for themselves. It also gives them a feeling of control over how often to come in for treatment. This is one of the most valuable tools I have created, because it improves the patient's confidence and helps them understand better how to make use of a healing system that is usually pretty foreign to them. Often a patient will experience a change in their symptoms right away during their first visit. Even if these changes will last only a short time, I capitalize on this moment right away and make sure to tell them this is a good sign because it means their condition is changeable! They love to hear this! It helps them have positive expectations and reinforces that they are doing something beneficial. It's sort of like being a cheerleader, and celebrating every step of progress, no matter how tiny it might seem compared to the larger healing journey. I love rewarding people for taking positive action on their own behalf; usually, these actions go unnoticed and unappreciated; if cheering them on means they are more likely to be motivated to continue with positive changes, then I am happy to be cheering. I never tell a patient how many treatments will be required, for several reasons: 1) not everyone heals at the same rate; 2) people often re-injure themselves, either by habit or activity, and this prolongs the healing process (when this occurs, and it happens often, I educate them about how they are contributing to the problem, and how they can better participate in the solution); 3) seasonal changes often impact the healing process; 4) many people are only looking for an acceptable level of improvement, rather than complete resolution, and this level of acceptability varies greatly from patient to patient; 5) and because of all the above, I don't want to set up a system where either the patient or myself can expect failure if we don't see the desired results by a set time. So I do tell patients that we will re-evaluate their progress regularly and reassess treatment at those times. And I make sure we do this, frequently at first, and then perhaps every 3-4 weeks. Remember, no doctor of any discipline can tell their patient how long any given therapy will take to cure a particular condition, yet somehow acupuncturists have this notion that we are supposed to be able to do this! One of the challenges I have learned to work with is helping my patients be more comfortable with the vagueness, unpredictability and unknown that accompany the healing process. Another is the fact that our bodies do age and change accordingly, and that there is some acceptance process that needs to occur about this, as well as acknowledging, coming to terms with, and perhaps grieving those perceived losses. As for self-doubt, I think this is healthy for someone fairly new in practice. My own self-doubt has reduced over the years as I become more confident in my diagnostic skills. But every time I see a patient with something far afield of what I have already treated, self-doubt surfaces again. Yes, it spurs me to study and research and tread carefully. I think what you are experiencing is normal. However, if you doubt yourself too much, that factor alone may interfere with the effectiveness of your treatments, especially if your patients can perceive this. After all, if they see your self-doubt, how can they believe you will help them? When I encounter this dilemma, I am honest to tell my patients this is a new area for me, I share with them my discoveries, and we learn together whether or not I am able to help them. I am also very quick to point out any positive changes I am able to observe in them, so they can also " see it for themselves " . I hope these comments are helpful to you. You may contact me off-list if you wish. To your success, corotcm <corotcm wrote: Hello to everyone reading and writing. I'm hoping to connect with some people who may have gone through the same struggle i am going through right now who may have some helpful comments. I am an acupuncturist practicing in NZ and work on my own with no peers. I have had good training in China and great teachers but i am a novice by all standards (1 or 2 years practicing). This last year of practice has brought up so many struggles for me and i wondered if they are normal or not. I have a few main areas of concern. Does anyone have any HELPFUL comments/experience to share. 1.On Average how many treatments do you all suggest are needed for a patient before seeing results? Is it normal that i may have seen more than one patient for more than 10 sessions with no major results? how do you guys deal with this? DO you even get this? Acupuncture is not cheap and i'm not doing the profession any favours with these results (my diagnosis and treatment have been supported by well respected practitioners too by the way as i have contacted them for support). 2. How much self doubt do you guys go through when treating patients? I can see for me, a certain amount inspires me to learn more and the rest gets me down. 3. DO you have any tips on patient education? For example how to explain things in TCM terms to someone who is an open doubter and sees/feels no effects of the sessions. I think you can get where I'm coming from right now. Can anyone be supportive? Does it sound like i need a new job? If anyone is interested in helping i would love to share a case history or two. Maybe you can see where i am going wrong. Subscribe to the free online journal for TCM at Times http://www.chinesemedicinetimes.com Help build the world's largest online encyclopedia for Chinese medicine and acupuncture, click, http://www.chinesemedicinetimes.com/wiki/CMTpedia and adjust accordingly. Please consider the environment and only print this message if absolutely necessary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 5, 2007 Report Share Posted October 5, 2007 I like that Artemis, Feeling pressure, that we need to nail the diagnosis, pick the perfect point combination or the perfect herbal formula distracts us from really being present with the patient. Learn enough so that when you are with the patient you can forget it all and act spontaneously. When we are stressed, worried or not confident our patients pick up on that. It affects the energy of the treatment. I do what I'm trained to do, do the best I can with how the patient presents to me, consult with my peers or read books when I feel stuck and let go of my ego's need to be right or be the patients savior. When I was in school and perhaps my first year of practice, I was so focused on being the best and getting results with everyone that walked in the door that I was totally stressed out. Now that I've been seasoned by a few years of clinical practice, I'm much more relaxed and I think I give much more effective treatments without all the stress. Christopher Vedeler L.Ac. Oasis Acupuncture http://www.oasisacupuncture.com 9832 N. Hayden Rd. Suite 215 Scottsdale, AZ 85258 Phone: (480) 991-3650 Chinese Medicine Chinese Medicine On Behalf Of Artemis Papert Thursday, October 04, 2007 8:03 AM Chinese Medicine Re: struggle Hello, It is not something that is easy to admit but when we are happy that our clients get better isn't it part also because it makes us feel good about our skills as practionners? I remember one of my Shiatsu teachers telling us " Keep it simple, just give the best treatment you can. Don't even hope for the client to get better, that's already complicating things " . Artemis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 7, 2007 Report Share Posted October 7, 2007 Christopher, I hope in saying this, you are not saying that an in-depth diagnosis is not important. I think with time and experience, you can do a detailed intake and be present with the patient at the same time.. . .in fact, we must do that. Sloppiness in diagnosis leads to sloppy results. On Oct 5, 2007, at 1:38 PM, Christopher Vedeler L.Ac. wrote: > > Feeling pressure, that we need to nail the diagnosis, pick the perfect > point combination or the perfect herbal formula distracts us from > really > being present with the patient. Learn enough so that when you are with > the patient you can forget it all and act spontaneously. When we are > stressed, worried or not confident our patients pick up on that. It > affects the energy of the treatment. Chair, Department of Herbal Medicine Pacific College of Oriental Medicine San Diego, Ca. 92122 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.