Guest guest Posted September 14, 2007 Report Share Posted September 14, 2007 1) I don't think she can take the boards as as apprentice. 2) If you want to work with her, you could ask her what schol she's attending and then call the school see if she's a student there. I don't know of any programme in this country that offers apprenticeship. I think those only exist in China. Gloria < wrote: HI All, Yesterday I received a phone call from an acupuncture student who would like to leave school and study as an apprentice. She called me to see if I would work with her in this way. I found the call odd, since it was out of the blue and I do not know this woman. I thought perhaps others on these lists might have also received calls from her, and I'm wondering if this is some sort of a scam. I'm also wondering if anyone knows what the specific requirements are for learning as an apprentice, or where I can find out about them. Lastly, my preference would be to refer her to an existing program - do any of you know of such programs? Thank you, Got a little couch potato? Check out fun summer activities for kids. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 14, 2007 Report Share Posted September 14, 2007 There are special regulations from state board for apprenticeship. You can take her but you have to be approved by state board. Look at their webpage for detail Yuri The Traveler <dumai20baihui Fri, 14 Sep 2007 9:20 am Re: apprenticeship 1) I don't think she can take the boards as as apprentice. 2) If you want to work with her, you could ask her what schol she's attending and then call the school see if she's a student there. I don't know of any programme in this country that offers apprenticeship. I think those only exist in China. Gloria < wrote: HI All, Yesterday I received a phone call from an acupuncture student who would like to leave school and study as an apprentice. She called me to see if I would work with her in this way. I found the call odd, since it was out of the blue and I do not know this woman. I thought perhaps others on these lists might have also received calls from her, and I'm wondering if this is some sort of a scam. I'm also wondering if anyone knows what the specific requirements are for learning as an apprentice, or where I can find out about them. Lastly, my preference would be to refer her to an existing program - do any of you know of such programs? Thank you, Got a little couch potato? Check out fun summer activities for kids. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 14, 2007 Report Share Posted September 14, 2007 HI All, Yesterday I received a phone call from an acupuncture student who would like to leave school and study as an apprentice. She called me to see if I would work with her in this way. I found the call odd, since it was out of the blue and I do not know this woman. I thought perhaps others on these lists might have also received calls from her, and I'm wondering if this is some sort of a scam. I'm also wondering if anyone knows what the specific requirements are for learning as an apprentice, or where I can find out about them. Lastly, my preference would be to refer her to an existing program - do any of you know of such programs? Thank you, Got a little couch potato? Check out fun summer activities for kids. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 14, 2007 Report Share Posted September 14, 2007 Hi Andrea - The state of AZ Acupuncture Board has been developing guidelines for preceptorship for a few years now, but I'm not sure if they have completed the process yet or not. You might give Mr. Gonzales a call at the board and I'm sure he can fill you in. Take care, Kim Blankenship On 9/14/07, < wrote: > > HI All, > > Yesterday I received a phone call from an acupuncture student who would > like to leave school and study as an apprentice. She called me to see if I > would work with her in this way. I found the call odd, since it was out of > the blue and I do not know this woman. I thought perhaps others on these > lists might have also received calls from her, and I'm wondering if this is > some sort of a scam. I'm also wondering if anyone knows what the specific > requirements are for learning as an apprentice, or where I can find out > about them. Lastly, my preference would be to refer her to an existing > program - do any of you know of such programs? > > Thank you, > > > > Got a little couch potato? > Check out fun summer activities for kids. > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 14, 2007 Report Share Posted September 14, 2007 I got a similar sounding call a few days ago (initials L.P. to keep her privacy just in case she is legit). I teach at the local college and so I didn't think much of it. I have not called the person back. I don't think my clinic is set up for such a thing as I see only one person at a time and it there is a high level of trust that can only come from a one on one interaction. I think there is a kind of depth of learning only possible as an apprentice. Most schools teach to the exam(s) and not to real life. I have learned far more from my patients then I ever did in school. I've also learned what doesn't work and what not to fear (like treating pregnant woman). Christopher Vedeler L.Ac. Oasis Acupuncture http://www.oasisacupuncture.com 9832 N. Hayden Rd. Suite 215 Scottsdale, AZ 85258 Phone: (480) 991-3650 Chinese Medicine Chinese Medicine On Behalf Of Friday, September 14, 2007 7:53 AM TCM List; Chinese Herbal Medicine apprenticeship HI All, Yesterday I received a phone call from an acupuncture student who would like to leave school and study as an apprentice. She called me to see if I would work with her in this way. I found the call odd, since it was out of the blue and I do not know this woman. I thought perhaps others on these lists might have also received calls from her, and I'm wondering if this is some sort of a scam. I'm also wondering if anyone knows what the specific requirements are for learning as an apprentice, or where I can find out about them. Lastly, my preference would be to refer her to an existing program - do any of you know of such programs? Thank you, Got a little couch potato? Check out fun summer activities for kids. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 14, 2007 Report Share Posted September 14, 2007 I wouldn't know the rules, but though an apprenticeship is invaluable, I believe the school clinic setting is great becuase you have access to all the herbs. I, ironically, did an apprenticeship with Ray Rubio, but it was in addition to my schooling. I know in CA the teaching clinic has to file with the state board and be accredited. Therefore my hours with Ray were not submissable (though I never tried; it was, as I said, extracurricular for me). sami Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 14, 2007 Report Share Posted September 14, 2007 The NCCAOM has posted a notice that is not going accept apprenticeship as a route for eligibility after a certain date. CA does have a provision that allows for this to take the CALE, but not many have passed. There is no program but an individual working with a LAc and covering a certain amount of material. CA has a set of reqs you can check out at the CAB website. Mike W. Bowser, L Ac Chinese Traditional Medicine ; : : Fri, 14 Sep 2007 07:52:32 -0700apprenticeship HI All,Yesterday I received a phone call from an acupuncture student who would like to leave school and study as an apprentice. She called me to see if I would work with her in this way. I found the call odd, since it was out of the blue and I do not know this woman. I thought perhaps others on these lists might have also received calls from her, and I'm wondering if this is some sort of a scam. I'm also wondering if anyone knows what the specific requirements are for learning as an apprentice, or where I can find out about them. Lastly, my preference would be to refer her to an existing program - do any of you know of such programs?Thank you,, L.Ac.Got a little couch potato? Check out fun summer activities for kids. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 14, 2007 Report Share Posted September 14, 2007 The California Acupuncture Board (CAB) is also considering the elimination of California's tutorial program. Their logic is that remediation of the tutorial program's deficiencies would require a disproportionate amount of CAB resources given that the program only serves about two dozen students at the moment. The CAB discussed the issue at their August 2007 meeting but deferred action to give proponents of the program an opportunity to make the case for it. --Bill. -- Bill Mosca, LAc San Francisco CA mosca On Sep 14, 2007, at 1:02 PM, mike Bowser wrote: > The NCCAOM has posted a notice that is not going accept > apprenticeship as > a route for eligibility after a certain date. CA does have a > provision that allows > for this to take the CALE, but not many have passed. There is no > program but > an individual working with a LAc and covering a certain amount of > material. CA > has a set of reqs you can check out at the CAB website. Mike W. > Bowser, L Ac > > > ; > : : > Fri, 14 Sep 2007 07:52:32 -0700apprenticeship > > > > > HI All,Yesterday I received a phone call from an acupuncture > student who would like to leave school and study as an apprentice. > She called me to see if I would work with her in this way. I found > the call odd, since it was out of the blue and I do not know this > woman. I thought perhaps others on these lists might have also > received calls from her, and I'm wondering if this is some sort of > a scam. I'm also wondering if anyone knows what the specific > requirements are for learning as an apprentice, or where I can find > out about them. Lastly, my preference would be to refer her to an > existing program - do any of you know of such programs?Thank > you,Got a > little couch potato? Check out fun summer activities for kids.[Non- > text portions of this message have been removed] _______________ > Capture your memories in an online journal! > http://www.reallivemoms.com?ocid=TXT_TAGHM & loc=us > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 15, 2007 Report Share Posted September 15, 2007 The CA Acupuncture Board states in Business and Professions Code (Laws): 4940. (a) The board shall establish standards for the approval of tutorial programs for education and training in the practice of acupuncture, that satisfy the requirements of Section 4938. The board shall also establish standards for the approved supervising acupuncturists. (b) An acupuncturist shall be approved to supervise a trainee, provided the supervisor meets the following conditions: (1) Is licensed to practice acupuncture in this state and that license is current, valid, and has not been suspended or revoked or otherwise subject to disciplinary action. (2) Has filed an application with the board. (3) Files with the board the name of each trainee to be trained or employed and a training program satisfactory to the board. (4) Does not train or employ more than two acupuncture trainees at any one time. (5) Has at least 10 years of experience practicing as an acupuncturist and has been licensed in this state for at least five years. (6) Is found by the board to have the knowledge necessary to educate and train the trainee in the practice of an acupuncturist. The amendments made to this section at the 1993 portion of the 1993-94 Regular Session of the Legislature shall not affect the approval of any supervising acupuncturist which has been issued prior to the effective date of those amendments. and in California Code of Regulations (Regs) 1399.420 - .432 which is long and you can read for yourself at http://acupuncture.ca.gov/education/edu_require.htm but essentially states that tutorial programmes still exist. The western science requirements are usually taken at a junior college or an amenable OM school. The reality is that by accepting someone as your trainee and offering a tutorial to them, you are opening your clinic to the CAB's scrutiny. And, sadly, the success rate for trainees is low - they almost always fail their board exams (you can check the results on the board website at http://acupuncture.ca.gov/exams/statistics.htm) Best of luck - Dia Dia Vickery, PhD(Theology), LAc Licensed Acupuncturist / Herbalist Ordained Clergy dia Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 16, 2007 Report Share Posted September 16, 2007 Thank you, Dia. I am licensed in both California and Arizona, currently practicing in Arizona, so I will need to contact both boards before I consider pursuing this. The fact that I am licensed only 5 out of the 10 required years would likely be a sticking point with the CA board, but I will be doing this in Arizona. Still, knowing the CA board, it would be an issue with them. I noticed your PhD in Theology. Are you a practicing minister in addition to an acupuncturist? Spiritual leadership has long been an interest of mine, and I am a frequent lay leader in congregations. Do you combine this training with your work as an acupuncturist, and if so, how? If the answers to these questions are too far afield of this forum, please contact me privately. Thanks again, Andrea Beth Dia Vickery <moonwillow wrote: The CA Acupuncture Board states in Business and Professions Code (Laws): 4940. (a) The board shall establish standards for the approval of tutorial programs for education and training in the practice of acupuncture, that satisfy the requirements of Section 4938. The board shall also establish standards for the approved supervising acupuncturists. (b) An acupuncturist shall be approved to supervise a trainee, provided the supervisor meets the following conditions: (1) Is licensed to practice acupuncture in this state and that license is current, valid, and has not been suspended or revoked or otherwise subject to disciplinary action. (2) Has filed an application with the board. (3) Files with the board the name of each trainee to be trained or employed and a training program satisfactory to the board. (4) Does not train or employ more than two acupuncture trainees at any one time. (5) Has at least 10 years of experience practicing as an acupuncturist and has been licensed in this state for at least five years. (6) Is found by the board to have the knowledge necessary to educate and train the trainee in the practice of an acupuncturist. The amendments made to this section at the 1993 portion of the 1993-94 Regular Session of the Legislature shall not affect the approval of any supervising acupuncturist which has been issued prior to the effective date of those amendments. and in California Code of Regulations (Regs) 1399.420 - .432 which is long and you can read for yourself at http://acupuncture.ca.gov/education/edu_require.htm but essentially states that tutorial programmes still exist. The western science requirements are usually taken at a junior college or an amenable OM school. The reality is that by accepting someone as your trainee and offering a tutorial to them, you are opening your clinic to the CAB's scrutiny. And, sadly, the success rate for trainees is low - they almost always fail their board exams (you can check the results on the board website at http://acupuncture.ca.gov/exams/statistics.htm) Best of luck - Dia Dia Vickery, PhD(Theology), LAc Licensed Acupuncturist / Herbalist Ordained Clergy dia Chinese Herbal Medicine offers various professional services, including a practitioner's directory and a moderated discussion forum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 16, 2007 Report Share Posted September 16, 2007 Bill, Don't they need a legislative bill to change the law? Has one been proposed?Mike W. Bowser, L Ac : mosca: Fri, 14 Sep 2007 13:55:28 -0700Re: apprenticeship The California Acupuncture Board (CAB) is also considering the elimination of California's tutorial program. Their logic is that remediation of the tutorial program's deficiencies would require a disproportionate amount of CAB resources given that the program only serves about two dozen students at the moment.The CAB discussed the issue at their August 2007 meeting but deferred action to give proponents of the program an opportunity to make the case for it.--Bill.--Bill Mosca, LAcSan Francisco CAmosca On Sep 14, 2007, at 1:02 PM, mike Bowser wrote:> The NCCAOM has posted a notice that is not going accept > apprenticeship as> a route for eligibility after a certain date. CA does have a > provision that allows> for this to take the CALE, but not many have passed. There is no > program but> an individual working with a LAc and covering a certain amount of > material. CA> has a set of reqs you can check out at the CAB website. Mike W. > Bowser, L Ac>>> To: Chinese Traditional Medicine ; > : : > Fri, 14 Sep 2007 07:52:32 -0700apprenticeship>>>>> HI All,Yesterday I received a phone call from an acupuncture > student who would like to leave school and study as an apprentice. > She called me to see if I would work with her in this way. I found > the call odd, since it was out of the blue and I do not know this > woman. I thought perhaps others on these lists might have also > received calls from her, and I'm wondering if this is some sort of > a scam. I'm also wondering if anyone knows what the specific > requirements are for learning as an apprentice, or where I can find > out about them. Lastly, my preference would be to refer her to an > existing program - do any of you know of such programs?Thank > you,, L.Ac.Got a > little couch potato? Check out fun summer activities for kids.[Non- > text portions of this message have been removed]>>>>>>> ________> Capture your memories in an online journal!> http://www.reallivemoms.com?ocid=TXT_TAGHM & loc=us>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]>>>> Subscribe to the fee online journal for TCM at > Times http://www.chinesemedicinetimes.com>> Help build the world's largest online encyclopedia for Chinese > medicine and acupuncture, click, http:// > www.chinesemedicinetimes.com/wiki/CMTpedia>> To change your email delivery settings, click, http:// > and adjust > accordingly.>> Messages are the property of the author. Any duplication outside > the group requires prior permission from the author.>> Please consider the environment and only print this message if > absolutely necessary.> Groups Links>>>>> _______________ Gear up for Halo® 3 with free downloads and an exclusive offer. It’s our way of saying thanks for using Windows Live™. http://gethalo3gear.com?ocid=SeptemberWLHalo3_WLHMTxt_2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 17, 2007 Report Share Posted September 17, 2007 Mike, Yes, a legislative change would be required. The board is currently considering drafting statutory language and looking around for a willing author. --Bill. -- Bill Mosca, LAc San Francisco CA mosca On Sep 16, 2007, at 4:57 AM, mike Bowser wrote: > Bill, > Don't they need a legislative bill to change the law? Has one been > proposed?Mike W. Bowser, L Ac > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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