Digest Number 2396/PCOS acronym

September 11, 2007

i agree with julie & david here. we practice in a west. culture, where

western medicine is the standard. i do not believe a competent practitioner

in this environment would ignore the knowledge accumulated by west med. in

fact, modern acupuncturists in china have a background in west med. several

of the books on the ABORM reading list are west medical fertility texts. if

one is practicing tcm fertility in the west, s/he will need to be able to

read and comprehend medical reports and lab work from west med docs, and

will likely be communicating with these docs as well.

for a practitioner in a west country to claim to be 'specializing' in tcm

fertility or gyn and not know common west med acronyms as pcos or fsh

demonstrates a basic level of ignorance, contra intuitive to what a

'specialist' in the field would know.

my 2 cents on this one. please don't slay me if you disagree.

k

On 9/9/07, Julie Ormonde, L.Ac. <cariadanam wrote:

>

> The issue isn't so much in the reading, heck we can look it up if we

> need to. The problem is when a patient is sitting in front of you and she

> says " I was diagnosed with PCOS " or " My doctor says my FSH is too high " and

> you have to ask what PCOS or FSH are? If I was a patient going to a TCM doc

> and they asked me what PCOS was, I'd turn around and walk out.

> Julie

>

> I agree with Tatiana. I had never seen any medical literature

> wrote an acronym by itself. It is always preceded by its whole term,

> the acronym then in the bracket " .... " as Carpel Tunnel Syn " CTS " .

> I do not even know anybody including specialists who would judge a

> practitioner who does not know the acronym is an incompentent.

> I believe that whenever any TCM wants to show off his talent or

> knowledge of WM, please spell out the whole words before the acronym.

> For those whose know the acronym does not mean they know their

> stuff. Knowing the acronym is one thing, understanding is another, and

> practicing is a different issue.

> Even specialists in GYN / OB , there are crooks. Any of us TCM

> knows that they do the hysterectomy or cessarian in most unnecessary

> cases? 50-80%. Administering estrogen therapy in a wrong way ( because

> they know estrogen RX are harmful ) and causing too much problem for

> women. Same thing as wrongful prostate removal. But they are not

> punished and they are continuing to do that. Are these belong to ABORM

> " reproductive medicine " ? Are we following them ?

> Please check this book out : Hormonal Health by Dr. Michael

> Colgan. We TCM must be strong, not following the bad crowd and should

> not be proud of understanding a little knowledge of WM and despite

> other TCM folks. But it is good to know and understand WM to

> incoporate into our knowledge for practicing. I have read a lot of WM

> books explaining a lot of diseases explicitly, but they can not do

> anything about it. What does it do to us? THere are a lot of BS in

> explanation too, I think. However, there have been a lot of diseases

> have been treated successfully in TCM in very plain and humble

> explanation, but WM denies it and everybody still follows its crowd.

> Dr. Colgan states that when MD made a statement is like GOd's word.

> We TCM must think and find out for our own's sake I believe.

>

> Nam Nguyen

>

> --- In

Chinese Medicine <Chinese Medicine%40yaho\

ogroups.com>,

> " Tatiana

> Gaidarenko " <tvgaid wrote:

> >

> > I disagree with David.

> >

> > It is a good habit to write the meaning and than the abbreviation.

> Look at

> > the scientific journals.

> > To judge a person for not knowing the abbreviation is wrong.

> >

> > Tatiana

> >

> > " about ABORM, and who is or is not qualified to treat infertility

> > > somebody posted a very simple question, " What is PCOS? "

> > >

> > > See message #26271.

> > >

> > > I presume that the person who posted the question is an

> > acupuncturist,

> > > as most of us on this discussion board are. So I ask you this, is

> > this

> > > acupuncturist qualified to treat and manage infertility cases??

> > >

> > > Those of you who argue against specialty certification and claim

> > that

> > > all acupuncturists are created equal, do you honestly feel that

> > > someone who does not know what PCOS is should be treating

> > infertility?? "

> >

September 11, 2007

Hi Kath. I disagree with you, and I hope my words don't slay you. Let me know

if they do.

Perhaps what is missing here is the idea of co-operation. Part of CM is the

idea of a " Spectrum " . This could be called the " standard " of CM - one way for

each thing, rather than one way for everything, which is the type of standard

David (and you, Kath) is trying to impose (yes, I will use that word for now,

sorry David).

What we need are a spectrum of therapists, because as much as many of us are

enamoured with the idea of carrying two paradigm's in one's head, I don't see

it, and I've never seen it, and yes I have met all those wonderful doctors from

China who supposedly do both. Question them carefully (after you get their

trust) and they will let you know, one way or the other, in which paradigm their

mind actually falls. And the paradigm one's mind follows will define what we do

with our " facts " and " philosophies " . Period. To have two roots is to be

schizophrenic, and there is no quibbling with that. Read about schizophrenia,

you'll see what I mean. Even better, work with someone who suffers with that.

What is a spectrum of therapists? Well, therapists ranging from the hard-core

materialist-reductionist freak all the way to the mystical energy-soul boob.

That means that somewhere in there will be the people who contain knowledge of

both systems, but that they will work hand in hand with everyone else to form a

chain of medical help that patients can access as needed. See? That's not too

bad, I think. For those who feel at odds with my characterisation of the

extremes, cut and paste the following words into the appropriate area:

" hard-core biochemical researchers all the way to the sages of the GuiLin

mountains " .

I have a justification for the system I am outlining above, although I admit

few might find my justification compelling: The more reductionistic /

materialistic a person gets, the less subtlety they seem to have in their

practice of medicine insofar as dealing with the human heart. Of course, this is

a horrible generalisation. I just hope it contains a grain of truth or I'm going

to have to give up the ghost entirely! I work with a few MDs who will sometimes

state, in a shocked fashion, " I can't believe how much medical school

dehumanised me! I mean, they really beat it out of you! " . It's possible I am

confusing " reductionism / materialism " with the political and cultural system of

medical school, but I feel there is some validity to this point. Comments?

Kath, are you slayed, or still there?

Hugo

" "

Chinese Medicine

Monday, 10 September, 2007 7:46:13 PM

Re: Digest Number 2396/PCOS acronym

i agree with julie & david here. we practice in a west. culture,

where

western medicine is the standard. i do not believe a competent practitioner

in this environment would ignore the knowledge accumulated by west med. in

fact, modern acupuncturists in china have a background in west med. several

of the books on the ABORM reading list are west medical fertility texts. if

one is practicing tcm fertility in the west, s/he will need to be able to

read and comprehend medical reports and lab work from west med docs, and

will likely be communicating with these docs as well.

for a practitioner in a west country to claim to be 'specializing' in tcm

fertility or gyn and not know common west med acronyms as pcos or fsh

demonstrates a basic level of ignorance, contra intuitive to what a

'specialist' in the field would know.

my 2 cents on this one. please don't slay me if you disagree.

k

On 9/9/07, Julie Ormonde, L.Ac. <cariadanam@cableone .net> wrote: