Guest guest Posted September 10, 2007 Report Share Posted September 10, 2007 Has any one tried using homeopathic remedies swiped on to acu points before needling or needles first dipped in to homeopathics? A friend had asked if this was ever practiced and if affective. I know of the use of injected homeopathics, but this idea is a far more subtle one and he was looking more for non-pain related experiences. David Botton Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 11, 2007 Report Share Posted September 11, 2007 In theory, it should work. Classically, when oral administration isn't possible, methods including spraying the face, or rubbing the liquid rx on areas of skin are utilized. Another method is to take the remedy by mouth at the very time of the acupuncture treatment. Strict-classical homeopaths are against any kind of energetic treatment, or certain foods and odors, while using homeopathic medicine... Regardless of the method used, if the remedy is appropriate, it will work. D. T. --- David Botton <david wrote: > Has any one tried using homeopathic remedies swiped > on to acu points before needling or > needles first dipped in to homeopathics? > > A friend had asked if this was ever practiced and if > affective. I know of the use of injected > homeopathics, but this idea is a far more subtle one > and he was looking more for non-pain > related experiences. > > David Botton > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 11, 2007 Report Share Posted September 11, 2007 David, Why do we have to dip our needles into homeopathics ? This is ridiculous and it may generate some kinds of problem in the future. If everything goes well, thing is OK. If something happens we have no way out. We are not allowed to do this I believed. I had treated so many acuphobiac. None of them has complained of needle inducing pain so far. HERE IS THE APPROACH. I had never used more than 2 needles for a treatment no matter how severe the case is. Because this is an introductory of treatment. Even though I could have used more than 2, but this is my limit..... This is not an important point. To minimize the pain when we insert a needle. First, find out a point which does not cause pain or startle such as abdominal point or S 36, LI 11, Du 20 or G34. Avoid sensitive points such as LI4 , H7 , P6 , points on extremities are sensitive. Then when we insert a needle, use a guiding tube if you are not an expert. Stroke the tail of a needle gently with slight force, the needle will penetrate the skin gently. This is the most important technique. It will not cause pain. Besides, stay away from the injured area. Don't insert a needle directly into an injured or damaged area, avoiding infection and pain. I 've seen acupuncturists showed off their talent. They insert needle very quickly with strength, their patient said " Ouch ! " . They replied, " Good Qi. You see ! " I think they are idiots. Others twist and push neddele in very with great force. This is a dumb method. I look at Qi as a source of life and it must be treated with great love and care. It is not only help you and your patients, but this Qi I think will follow your commands because it trusts you. Thanks for paying attention. Nam Nguyen Chinese Medicine , David Tarlo <d1tarlo wrote: > > In theory, it should work. > Classically, when oral administration isn't possible, > methods including spraying the face, or rubbing the > liquid rx on areas of skin are utilized. > Another method is to take the remedy by mouth at the > very time of the acupuncture treatment. > Strict-classical homeopaths are against any kind of > energetic treatment, or certain foods and odors, while > using homeopathic medicine... Regardless of the method > used, if the remedy is appropriate, it will work. > D. T. > --- David Botton <david wrote: > > > Has any one tried using homeopathic remedies swiped > > on to acu points before needling or > > needles first dipped in to homeopathics? > > > > A friend had asked if this was ever practiced and if > > affective. I know of the use of injected > > homeopathics, but this idea is a far more subtle one > > and he was looking more for non-pain > > related experiences. > > > > David Botton > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 11, 2007 Report Share Posted September 11, 2007 Nam, It seems that there are two points here, scope of practice (and the ethics that come with the territory), and scientific investigation. It seems to me that these two things should be treated as utterly distinct. Just because something is outside of one's provincial scope of practice does not mean that it is not clinically valid. For example, my state has a strong chiropractic lobby, and this political voice has seen to it that acupuncturists are " by law, " not allowed to do high velocity spinal adjustments. But these kinds of treatments are well documented as an integral component of Chinese Medicine and Tuina. So, at hand is FIRST to determine if these homeopathinc treatments have any clinical value. And only once that is clearly known should we (in my opinion) worry about whether such treatments are permitted and how they should be regulated for safety, etc. I think it is a mistake to halt scientific inquiry because a new treatment approach " sounds like trouble. " This is, in essence what is happening to medicla stem-cell research in this country. The " sounds like trouble " group is controlling the funding to the " Let's subject this to scientific inquiry " group. Just my two cents on this one. David Karchmer (Not the OP, the other David) --- In Chinese Medicine , " dr_namnguyen58 " <dr_namnguyen58 wrote: > > David, > Why do we have to dip our needles into homeopathics ? This is > ridiculous and it may generate some kinds of problem in the future. > If everything goes well, thing is OK. If something happens we have no > way out. We are not allowed to do this I believed. > I had treated so many acuphobiac. None of them has complained of > needle inducing pain so far. > HERE IS THE APPROACH. I had never used more than 2 needles for a > treatment no matter how severe the case is. Because this is an > introductory of treatment. Even though I could have used more than 2, > but this is my limit..... This is not an important point. > To minimize the pain when we insert a needle. First, find out a > point which does not cause pain or startle such as abdominal point or > S 36, LI 11, Du 20 or G34. Avoid sensitive points such as LI4 , H7 , > P6 , points on extremities are sensitive. > Then when we insert a needle, use a guiding tube if you are not an > expert. Stroke the tail of a needle gently with slight force, the > needle will penetrate the skin gently. This is the most important > technique. It will not cause pain. Besides, stay away from the > injured area. Don't insert a needle directly into an injured or > damaged area, avoiding infection and pain. > I 've seen acupuncturists showed off their talent. They insert > needle very quickly with strength, their patient said " Ouch ! " . > They replied, " Good Qi. You see ! " I think they are idiots. Others > twist and push neddele in very with great force. This is a dumb > method. > I look at Qi as a source of life and it must be treated with great > love and care. It is not only help you and your patients, but this Qi > I think will follow your commands because it trusts you. > > > Thanks for paying attention. > Nam Nguyen > > > Chinese Medicine , David Tarlo > <d1tarlo@> wrote: > > > > In theory, it should work. > > Classically, when oral administration isn't possible, > > methods including spraying the face, or rubbing the > > liquid rx on areas of skin are utilized. > > Another method is to take the remedy by mouth at the > > very time of the acupuncture treatment. > > Strict-classical homeopaths are against any kind of > > energetic treatment, or certain foods and odors, while > > using homeopathic medicine... Regardless of the method > > used, if the remedy is appropriate, it will work. > > D. T. > > --- David Botton <david@> wrote: > > > > > Has any one tried using homeopathic remedies swiped > > > on to acu points before needling or > > > needles first dipped in to homeopathics? > > > > > > A friend had asked if this was ever practiced and if > > > affective. I know of the use of injected > > > homeopathics, but this idea is a far more subtle one > > > and he was looking more for non-pain > > > related experiences. > > > > > > David Botton > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 11, 2007 Report Share Posted September 11, 2007 David, I agree with you here. THis is a limit scope of practice for TCM to incorporate any chemicals or any chemistry injecting into a patient. I had seen my father in-law " MD " injected Vitamin B complex into a local pain -acupoint- for treating the stubborn case of arthritis in my father. And the pain had gone away for more than 12 years. He had use vitamin B10 in other cases in acupoint. With the current law here in CA, it is unwise for TCM to experience this kind of treatment. But if it is allowed, I think MD may have such an advantage over us for pain. Thanks for spelling out the details. Nam Nguyen Chinese Medicine , " David Karchmer " <acuprof wrote: > > Nam, > > It seems that there are two points here, scope of practice (and the > ethics that come with the territory), and scientific investigation. > > It seems to me that these two things should be treated as utterly > distinct. Just because something is outside of one's provincial > scope of practice does not mean that it is not clinically valid. > > For example, my state has a strong chiropractic lobby, and this > political voice has seen to it that acupuncturists are " by law, " not > allowed to do high velocity spinal adjustments. But these kinds of > treatments are well documented as an integral component of Chinese > Medicine and Tuina. > > So, at hand is FIRST to determine if these homeopathinc treatments > have any clinical value. And only once that is clearly known should > we (in my opinion) worry about whether such treatments are permitted > and how they should be regulated for safety, etc. > > I think it is a mistake to halt scientific inquiry because a new > treatment approach " sounds like trouble. " This is, in essence what > is happening to medicla stem-cell research in this country. > The " sounds like trouble " group is controlling the funding to > the " Let's subject this to scientific inquiry " group. > > Just my two cents on this one. > > David Karchmer (Not the OP, the other David) > > --- In > Chinese Medicine , " dr_namnguyen58 " > <dr_namnguyen58@> wrote: > > > > David, > > Why do we have to dip our needles into homeopathics ? This is > > ridiculous and it may generate some kinds of problem in the > future. > > If everything goes well, thing is OK. If something happens we have > no > > way out. We are not allowed to do this I believed. > > I had treated so many acuphobiac. None of them has complained > of > > needle inducing pain so far. > > HERE IS THE APPROACH. I had never used more than 2 needles for > a > > treatment no matter how severe the case is. Because this is an > > introductory of treatment. Even though I could have used more than > 2, > > but this is my limit..... This is not an important point. > > To minimize the pain when we insert a needle. First, find out a > > point which does not cause pain or startle such as abdominal point > or > > S 36, LI 11, Du 20 or G34. Avoid sensitive points such as LI4 , > H7 , > > P6 , points on extremities are sensitive. > > Then when we insert a needle, use a guiding tube if you are not > an > > expert. Stroke the tail of a needle gently with slight force, the > > needle will penetrate the skin gently. This is the most important > > technique. It will not cause pain. Besides, stay away from the > > injured area. Don't insert a needle directly into an injured or > > damaged area, avoiding infection and pain. > > I 've seen acupuncturists showed off their talent. They insert > > needle very quickly with strength, their patient said " Ouch ! " . > > They replied, " Good Qi. You see ! " I think they are idiots. > Others > > twist and push neddele in very with great force. This is a dumb > > method. > > I look at Qi as a source of life and it must be treated with > great > > love and care. It is not only help you and your patients, but this > Qi > > I think will follow your commands because it trusts you. > > > > > > Thanks for paying attention. > > Nam Nguyen > > > > > > Chinese Medicine , David Tarlo > > <d1tarlo@> wrote: > > > > > > In theory, it should work. > > > Classically, when oral administration isn't possible, > > > methods including spraying the face, or rubbing the > > > liquid rx on areas of skin are utilized. > > > Another method is to take the remedy by mouth at the > > > very time of the acupuncture treatment. > > > Strict-classical homeopaths are against any kind of > > > energetic treatment, or certain foods and odors, while > > > using homeopathic medicine... Regardless of the method > > > used, if the remedy is appropriate, it will work. > > > D. T. > > > --- David Botton <david@> wrote: > > > > > > > Has any one tried using homeopathic remedies swiped > > > > on to acu points before needling or > > > > needles first dipped in to homeopathics? > > > > > > > > A friend had asked if this was ever practiced and if > > > > affective. I know of the use of injected > > > > homeopathics, but this idea is a far more subtle one > > > > and he was looking more for non-pain > > > > related experiences. > > > > > > > > David Botton > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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