A case in point - Harada's Disease (VKH)

[Guest guest]

David,

 

Harada's disease is one component of Vogt-Koyanagi-Harada Disease, also known by

the medical acronym of VKH. It is an autoimmune disease, in which the immune

system attacks melanin-containing tissues in the eyes, ears, skin, hair, and

brain. Like other autoimmune diseases, it goes through periods of exacerbations

and remissions. Patients with this diagnosis commonly develop secondary

glaucoma, and retinal detachment from the increased intraocular pressure.

Blindness is a real possibility from this disease, both temporary and permanent.

 

I know of VKH because my sister was diagnosed with it early this year. She is

fortunate to have the disease only in her eyes. Both of her retinas have

detached and reattached, and she believes one has reattached a little off its

original position, so her vision in that eye is " wavy " . She gets frequent

headaches and eye fatigue from using her eyes because of this, especially when

reading. So far, she has been treated medically with large doses of prednisone

and also chemotherapy meds. It is not yet under control, and she is currently

developing cataracts from the prednisone. She asked me for herbal assistance a

few months ago, but she lives far enough away that is was too difficult for us

to keep on top of the frequent fluctuations in her symptoms and vision. She has

since begun to work with a naturopath in addition to her uveitis specialists.

 

This is a poorly-known disease; most eye doctors have never heard of it, even

though it has been diagnosed for over 1000 years! And there is great

disagreement among uveitis specialists about how to treat it. I suspect we will

be hearing more about VKH in the future, as autoimmune conditions seem to be

increasing, at least in the US. Because medical treatment offers poor results

with high potential side effects, people living with VKH may very well seek the

assistance of acupuncturists, so it is wise for us to know about it. Some more

info is below, from the American Uveitis Society.

 

Andrea Beth

 

Vogt-Koyanagi-Harada Disease

 

A Patient Education Monograph prepared for the American Uveitis Society, January

2003

 

by Russell W. Read, MD, Assistant Professor of

Ophthalmology and Pathology

University of Alabama at Birmingham

Birmingham, AL, USA

 

NOTE: The opinions expressed in this monograph are those of the author(s) and

not necessarily those of the membership of the American Uveitis Society, its

leadership, or the Editorial Board of UveitisSociety.org. All medical decisions

should be made in consultation with one's personal physician.

 

Introduction

Vogt-Koyanagi-Harada disease, or VKH, is an inflammatory condition that affects

both eyes, as well as the inner ear, skin, hair, and coverings of the brain.

Certain groups of individuals appear to be predisposed to the development of

VKH, such as Asians (including East and Southeast Asians and Asian Indians),

Middle Easterners, Native Americans, and Hispanics. A common ancestry among

these groups is believed to exist, with groups now living in the New World

having arrived after crossing a land bridge across the Bering Strait.

Individuals of Caucasian and African heritage may also develop VKH, though much

less commonly.

 

History

VKH has been known for over 1000 years. The name of the condition comes from

three physicians who described the different phases of the condition, though at

that time it was not realized that the features described were part of the same

condition. Later reports brought this condition together under the name of

Vogt-Koyanagi-Harada disease.

 

Course of Disease

At the onset of VKH, patients frequently note symptoms such as severe headache,

neck stiffness, ringing in the ears (tinnitus), fever, and possibly scalp

tenderness. Sometimes these symptoms are so severe that patients may be admitted

to the hospital for meningitis (inflammation of the membranes surrounding the

brain). Within a few days to weeks, patients note the onset of blurry vision and

sometimes eye pain. Eye examination at this point classically reveals leakage of

fluid under the retina, and inflammation of the optic nerve head (the nerve at

the back of the eye which relays visual signals to the brain). The middle layer

of the eye (the uvea, and specifically the choroid) is swollen.

 

Diagnosis and Testing

Unfortunately, there are no blood or X-ray tests that can tell an eye doctor

without a doubt that a patient has VKH. Rather, VKH is diagnosed based on the

history of the disease in a particular patient in combination with the findings

present on examination and testing. The eye doctor will obtain a complete

history and carefully examine the eyes for acuity or vision, for eye pressure,

and for the presence of inflammation in the eye, using special instruments which

magnify the eye under bright light. Special testing such as a fluorescein

angiogram or ultrasound may be performed. Since no tests exist to diagnose VKH

absolutely, the eye doctor will likely perform blood tests and a chest X-ray to

ensure that other diseases which may look similar to VKH are not present. Some

of these other eye diseases which can mimic VKH include sympathetic ophthalmia,

sarcoidosis, intraocular lymphoma, uveal effusion syndrome, and multifocal

central serous chorioretinopathy.

 

Treatment

The main form of treatment of VKH is corticosteroids such as prednisone. High

doses are typically required to bring the inflammation into control. Some

patients may require admission to the hospital to receive corticosteroids

through the vein. It is believed by some doctors that early, aggressive

treatment may result in fewer complications and less likelihood of recurrent

disease in the future. No well-designed clinical research trials have proven

this, however. VKH can be a difficult disease to treat, and may require the use

of immunosuppressive therapy to achieve the desired control.

 

Cause of Condition

While the cause of VKH is not yet completely understood, scientists believe that

the condition is caused by an attack mounted by the patient's own immune system

against areas of the body that contain melanin, a substance that gives hair,

skin, and the eyes their coloration. Interestingly, the lining of the brain and

the inner ear contain this substance as well, thus tying together the various

sites that are involved in VKH, and lending weight to this theory.

 

Prognosis

When diagnosed early and treated appropriately, patients with VKH have a good

chance of retaining useful vision. Some studies suggest that VKH may be more

aggressive in children and African Americans.

 

Research and Future Outlook

Current research efforts for VKH are along two fronts: 1) Finding the exact

target of the abnormal immune attack, and 2) Determining the best treatment

protocols to control the disease quickly and preserve sight with the added

benefit of preventing recurrences.

 

2003 The American Uveitis Society. All rights reserved.

 

Vogt-Koyanagi-Harada disease.

 

Ocular manifestations of systemic disease

Current Opinion in Ophthalmology. 11(6):437-442, December 2000.

Read, Russell W. MD *; Rao, Narsing A. MD +; Cunningham, Emmett T. Jr MD, PhD,

MPH ++

 

Abstract: Vogt-Koyanagi-Harada (VKH) disease affects primarily persons who are

Asian, Latino, Native American, or Asian Indian. Women appear to be affected

more commonly than men, and VKH disease may occur at all ages, including

childhood. Experimental data continue to support an autoimmune etiology for VKH

disease, directed most probably against an antigenic component of the

melanocyte, possibly tyrosinase or a tyrosinase-related protein. The clinical

diagnosis of VKH disease continues to be based on physical findings. Newer

imaging modalities such as magnetic resonance imaging, indocyanine green

angiography, and digital image analysis have not added appreciably to our

understanding of the condition. First-line therapy consists of high-dose

corticosteroids, with use of corticosteroid-sparing agents for resistant or

recalcitrant disease. Complications are the main cause of reversible and

irreversible vision loss, with subretinal fibrosis and choroidal neovascular

membranes

having particularly poor prognoses.

 

© 2000 Lippincott Williams & Wilkins, Inc.

 

 

David Karchmer <acuprof wrote: Andrea,

 

Please, let me be the first to say, I'VE NEVER HEARD OF IT.

 

David

 

> So, to throw a curve at you all, how many of you have heard of

Harada's Disease? Clue: it is a western medical diagnosis. Another

clue: it is not a reproductive disease or syndrome. Answer to

follow...

>

> (etc.)

 

 

 

 

Ready for the edge of your seat? Check out tonight's top picks on TV.

 

 

[Guest guest]

Abdrea,

 

Very interesting, thanks for sharing this information.

 

This is exactly the kind of thing that I would expect an

acupuncturist to know thoroughly who claimed to specialize in either

Auto-Immune Diseases or Eye Disorders. In the same way, I think

there is a need to create standards regulating the knowledge and

expertise of practitioners who claim to specialize in Reproductive

and Fertility disorders.

 

Clearly none of us knows everything about everything. Hence the very

real need for specialization within our field, and objective

standards regulating such specialization.

 

David Karchmer

 

 

-- In Chinese Medicine , Andrea Beth

Damsky < wrote:

>

> David,

>

> Harada's disease is one component of Vogt-Koyanagi-Harada Disease,

also known by the medical acronym of VKH. It is an autoimmune

disease, in which the immune system attacks melanin-containing

tissues in the eyes, ears, skin, hair, and brain. Like other

autoimmune diseases, it goes through periods of exacerbations and

remissions. Patients with this diagnosis commonly develop secondary

glaucoma, and retinal detachment from the increased intraocular

pressure. Blindness is a real possibility from this disease, both

temporary and permanent.

>

> I know of VKH because my sister was diagnosed with it early this

year. She is fortunate to have the disease only in her eyes. Both

of her retinas have detached and reattached, and she believes one

has reattached a little off its original position, so her vision in

that eye is " wavy " . She gets frequent headaches and eye fatigue

from using her eyes because of this, especially when reading. So

far, she has been treated medically with large doses of prednisone

and also chemotherapy meds. It is not yet under control, and she is

currently developing cataracts from the prednisone. She asked me

for herbal assistance a few months ago, but she lives far enough

away that is was too difficult for us to keep on top of the frequent

fluctuations in her symptoms and vision. She has since begun to

work with a naturopath in addition to her uveitis specialists.

>

> This is a poorly-known disease; most eye doctors have never heard

of it, even though it has been diagnosed for over 1000 years! And

there is great disagreement among uveitis specialists about how to

treat it. I suspect we will be hearing more about VKH in the

future, as autoimmune conditions seem to be increasing, at least in

the US. Because medical treatment offers poor results with high

potential side effects, people living with VKH may very well seek

the assistance of acupuncturists, so it is wise for us to know about

it. Some more info is below, from the American Uveitis Society.

>

> Andrea Beth

>

> Vogt-Koyanagi-Harada Disease

>

> A Patient Education Monograph prepared for the American Uveitis

Society, January 2003

>

> by Russell W. Read, MD, Assistant Professor of

> Ophthalmology and Pathology

> University of Alabama at Birmingham

> Birmingham, AL, USA

>

> NOTE: The opinions expressed in this monograph are those of the

author(s) and not necessarily those of the membership of the

American Uveitis Society, its leadership, or the Editorial Board of

UveitisSociety.org. All medical decisions should be made in

consultation with one's personal physician.

>

> Introduction

> Vogt-Koyanagi-Harada disease, or VKH, is an inflammatory condition

that affects both eyes, as well as the inner ear, skin, hair, and

coverings of the brain. Certain groups of individuals appear to be

predisposed to the development of VKH, such as Asians (including

East and Southeast Asians and Asian Indians), Middle Easterners,

Native Americans, and Hispanics. A common ancestry among these

groups is believed to exist, with groups now living in the New World

having arrived after crossing a land bridge across the Bering

Strait. Individuals of Caucasian and African heritage may also

develop VKH, though much less commonly.

>

> History

> VKH has been known for over 1000 years. The name of the condition

comes from three physicians who described the different phases of

the condition, though at that time it was not realized that the

features described were part of the same condition. Later reports

brought this condition together under the name of Vogt-Koyanagi-

Harada disease.

>

> Course of Disease

> At the onset of VKH, patients frequently note symptoms such as

severe headache, neck stiffness, ringing in the ears (tinnitus),

fever, and possibly scalp tenderness. Sometimes these symptoms are

so severe that patients may be admitted to the hospital for

meningitis (inflammation of the membranes surrounding the brain).

Within a few days to weeks, patients note the onset of blurry vision

and sometimes eye pain. Eye examination at this point classically

reveals leakage of fluid under the retina, and inflammation of the

optic nerve head (the nerve at the back of the eye which relays

visual signals to the brain). The middle layer of the eye (the uvea,

and specifically the choroid) is swollen.

>

> Diagnosis and Testing

> Unfortunately, there are no blood or X-ray tests that can tell an

eye doctor without a doubt that a patient has VKH. Rather, VKH is

diagnosed based on the history of the disease in a particular

patient in combination with the findings present on examination and

testing. The eye doctor will obtain a complete history and carefully

examine the eyes for acuity or vision, for eye pressure, and for the

presence of inflammation in the eye, using special instruments which

magnify the eye under bright light. Special testing such as a

fluorescein angiogram or ultrasound may be performed. Since no tests

exist to diagnose VKH absolutely, the eye doctor will likely perform

blood tests and a chest X-ray to ensure that other diseases which

may look similar to VKH are not present. Some of these other eye

diseases which can mimic VKH include sympathetic ophthalmia,

sarcoidosis, intraocular lymphoma, uveal effusion syndrome, and

multifocal central serous chorioretinopathy.

>

> Treatment

> The main form of treatment of VKH is corticosteroids such as

prednisone. High doses are typically required to bring the

inflammation into control. Some patients may require admission to

the hospital to receive corticosteroids through the vein. It is

believed by some doctors that early, aggressive treatment may result

in fewer complications and less likelihood of recurrent disease in

the future. No well-designed clinical research trials have proven

this, however. VKH can be a difficult disease to treat, and may

require the use of immunosuppressive therapy to achieve the desired

control.

>

> Cause of Condition

> While the cause of VKH is not yet completely understood,

scientists believe that the condition is caused by an attack mounted

by the patient's own immune system against areas of the body that

contain melanin, a substance that gives hair, skin, and the eyes

their coloration. Interestingly, the lining of the brain and the

inner ear contain this substance as well, thus tying together the

various sites that are involved in VKH, and lending weight to this

theory.

>

> Prognosis

> When diagnosed early and treated appropriately, patients with VKH

have a good chance of retaining useful vision. Some studies suggest

that VKH may be more aggressive in children and African Americans.

>

> Research and Future Outlook

> Current research efforts for VKH are along two fronts: 1) Finding

the exact target of the abnormal immune attack, and 2) Determining

the best treatment protocols to control the disease quickly and

preserve sight with the added benefit of preventing recurrences.

>

> Copyright ? 2003 The American Uveitis Society. All rights reserved.

>

> Vogt-Koyanagi-Harada disease.

>

> Ocular manifestations of systemic disease

> Current Opinion in Ophthalmology. 11(6):437-442, December 2000.

> Read, Russell W. MD *; Rao, Narsing A. MD +; Cunningham, Emmett T.

Jr MD, PhD, MPH ++

>

> Abstract: Vogt-Koyanagi-Harada (VKH) disease affects primarily

persons who are Asian, Latino, Native American, or Asian Indian.

Women appear to be affected more commonly than men, and VKH disease

may occur at all ages, including childhood. Experimental data

continue to support an autoimmune etiology for VKH disease, directed

most probably against an antigenic component of the melanocyte,

possibly tyrosinase or a tyrosinase-related protein. The clinical

diagnosis of VKH disease continues to be based on physical findings.

Newer imaging modalities such as magnetic resonance imaging,

indocyanine green angiography, and digital image analysis have not

added appreciably to our understanding of the condition. First-line

therapy consists of high-dose corticosteroids, with use of

corticosteroid-sparing agents for resistant or recalcitrant disease.

Complications are the main cause of reversible and irreversible

vision loss, with subretinal fibrosis and choroidal neovascular

membranes

> having particularly poor prognoses.

>

> © 2000 Lippincott Williams & Wilkins, Inc.

>

>

> David Karchmer <acuprof wrote: Andrea,

>

> Please, let me be the first to say, I'VE NEVER HEARD OF IT.

>

> David

>

> > So, to throw a curve at you all, how many of you have heard of

> Harada's Disease? Clue: it is a western medical diagnosis.

Another

> clue: it is not a reproductive disease or syndrome. Answer to

> follow...

> >

> > (etc.)

>

>

>

>

> Ready for the edge of your seat? Check out tonight's top picks on

TV.

>

>

[Guest guest]

At this time, I cannot feel comfortable referring an

acupuncturist without VHKC (VHK certification). MDs

just won't take it seriously and what about the FDA?

 

Yes. You've introduced an important gap in

integrating with biomedicine. We'll need to convene a

convention or something... at least a meeting. We

need VHKC as soon as possible.

 

y.c.

vytalpathways.com

 

 

 

 

______________________________\

____

Be a better Globetrotter. Get better travel answers from someone who knows.

Answers - Check it out.

http://answers./dir/?link=list & sid=396545469

[Guest guest]

Dear Yangchu,

 

I am unable to tell whether the tone of your email is sarcastic, in fun, or

serious. My point in sharing the info about VKH Disease was to point out that

not all acupuncturists know the acronyms for every western medical diagnosis,

such as PCOS or VKH, nor every western disease diagnosis. It was not my intent

to suggest that we need more certifications, but I did want to take the

opportunity to educate as well, about a rare and poorly-known condition.

 

Sincerely,

 

 

 

 

Yangchu Higgins <ycmgh wrote: At this time, I cannot feel comfortable

referring an

acupuncturist without VHKC (VHK certification). MDs

just won't take it seriously and what about the FDA?

 

Yes. You've introduced an important gap in

integrating with biomedicine. We'll need to convene a

convention or something... at least a meeting. We

need VHKC as soon as possible.

 

y.c.

vytalpathways.com

 

 

 

 

______________________________\

____

Be a better Globetrotter. Get better travel answers from someone who knows.

Answers - Check it out.

http://answers./dir/?link=list & sid=396545469

 

 

Subscribe to the fee online journal for TCM at Times

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and adjust

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Please consider the environment and only print this message if absolutely

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[Guest guest]

If you were correct,

Then we'd have to certify every practitioner who treats a major

autoimmune, gynecological or infectious disorder. This is a

pandora's box you are opening. If legally we can only treat patients

with specific disorders by certification, it will kill the

profession, or make us into understudy therapists. I agree that we

need to study and be aware of as many autoimmune disorders as

possible, and experience is important, but to require certification

for each condition is just an absurd idea, in my opinion.

 

I don't think that herbal medicine and acupuncture has to

specifically be aimed at biomedical diseases in all cases. We treat

the patterns/symptom complexes that the patients present to us. Any

biomedical condition needs to be reframed into the logic of Chinese

medicine for us to treat it. We treat primarily the patient with the

disease. I support the development of specialties, such as

pediatrics, gynecology, or autoimmune disorders. What this includes

is biomedical data on these conditions. But this is just the

beginning. Our diagnosis and treatment strategies do not depend on

this data exclusively. The biomedical disease data gives us a sense

of pathomechanisms of disease

 

 

On Sep 9, 2007, at 9:43 PM, Yangchu Higgins wrote:

 

> At this time, I cannot feel comfortable referring an

> acupuncturist without VHKC (VHK certification). MDs

> just won't take it seriously and what about the FDA?

>

> Yes. You've introduced an important gap in

> integrating with biomedicine. We'll need to convene a

> convention or something... at least a meeting. We

> need VHKC as soon as possible.

>

> y.c.

> vytalpathways.com

>

>

> ________

> Be a better Globetrotter. Get better travel answers from someone

> who knows. Answers - Check it out.

> http://answers./dir/?link=list & sid=396545469

>

>

 

 

Chair, Department of Herbal Medicine

Pacific College of Oriental Medicine

San Diego, Ca. 92122

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Yo Z'ev,

 

I'm pretty sure that post was sarcastically mocking the ABORM.

Not to be taken seriously.

 

Correct me if I am mistaken YC

 

 

Chinese Medicine , " Z'ev

Rosenberg " <zrosenbe wrote:

>

> If you were correct,

> Then we'd have to certify every practitioner who treats a

major

> autoimmune, gynecological or infectious disorder. This is a

> pandora's box you are opening. If legally we can only treat

patients

> with specific disorders by certification, it will kill the

> profession, or make us into understudy therapists. I agree that

we

> need to study and be aware of as many autoimmune disorders as

> possible, and experience is important, but to require

certification

> for each condition is just an absurd idea, in my opinion.

>

> I don't think that herbal medicine and acupuncture has to

> specifically be aimed at biomedical diseases in all cases. We

treat

> the patterns/symptom complexes that the patients present to us.

Any

> biomedical condition needs to be reframed into the logic of

Chinese

> medicine for us to treat it. We treat primarily the patient with

the

> disease. I support the development of specialties, such as

> pediatrics, gynecology, or autoimmune disorders. What this

includes

> is biomedical data on these conditions. But this is just the

> beginning. Our diagnosis and treatment strategies do not depend

on

> this data exclusively. The biomedical disease data gives us a

sense

> of pathomechanisms of disease

>

>

> On Sep 9, 2007, at 9:43 PM, Yangchu Higgins wrote:

>

> > At this time, I cannot feel comfortable referring an

> > acupuncturist without VHKC (VHK certification). MDs

> > just won't take it seriously and what about the FDA?

> >

> > Yes. You've introduced an important gap in

> > integrating with biomedicine. We'll need to convene a

> > convention or something... at least a meeting. We

> > need VHKC as soon as possible.

> >

> > y.c.

> > vytalpathways.com

> >

> >

> > ________

> > Be a better Globetrotter. Get better travel answers from

someone

> > who knows. Answers - Check it out.

> > http://answers./dir/?link=list & sid=396545469

> >

> >

>

>

> Chair, Department of Herbal Medicine

> Pacific College of Oriental Medicine

> San Diego, Ca. 92122

 

[Guest guest]

I apologize for the last e-mail. I meant to hit the 'save as draft'

and it got sent instead in its unfinished version. It seriously

needs editing.

 

The gist of it was that if we certified every biomedical disease for

acupuncturists, we'd end up in a morass of regulation that would

seriously hamper the profession. While we do need to educate

ourselves in biomedical diseases and specialties, our main imperative

must be to master Chinese medicine in all of its depth. We've only

begun to understand those depths in recent years, there is still a

long way to go. I don't want to see this necessary development

sidelined by the rush to integrate with modern biomedicine.

 

 

On Sep 10, 2007, at 9:52 PM, wrote:

 

> If you were correct,

> Then we'd have to certify every practitioner who treats a major

> autoimmune, gynecological or infectious disorder. This is a

> pandora's box you are opening. If legally we can only treat patients

> with specific disorders by certification, it will kill the

> profession, or make us into understudy therapists. I agree that we

> need to study and be aware of as many autoimmune disorders as

> possible, and experience is important, but to require certification

> for each condition is just an absurd idea, in my opinion.

>

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

No, it wasn't meant to mock the ABORM. I am undecided on ABORM at

this point, it requires a lot more thinking about it on my part, and

it is an idea in its formative stages. That is why I've refrained

from commenting so far.

 

As I point out in a later post, it was sent accidently, needing much

editing. Sorry about that.

 

I am concerned that we don't get carried away with too much

certification, however.

 

 

On Sep 10, 2007, at 9:57 PM, David Karchmer wrote:

 

> Yo Z'ev,

>

> I'm pretty sure that post was sarcastically mocking the ABORM.

> Not to be taken seriously.

>

> Correct me if I am mistaken YC

 

 

Chair, Department of Herbal Medicine

Pacific College of Oriental Medicine

San Diego, Ca. 92122

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Z'ev,

 

I meant the post to which you were responding! The one about (VKH)

certification. THAT post was mocking the ABORM.

 

Sorry to say, I think you got hooked into giving a very thoughtful

response to a post that was a joke.

 

David K.

 

Chinese Medicine , " Z'ev

Rosenberg " <zrosenbe wrote:

>

> No, it wasn't meant to mock the ABORM. I am undecided on ABORM

at

> this point, it requires a lot more thinking about it on my part,

and

> it is an idea in its formative stages. That is why I've

refrained

> from commenting so far.

>

> As I point out in a later post, it was sent accidently, needing

much

> editing. Sorry about that.

>

> I am concerned that we don't get carried away with too much

> certification, however.

>

>

> On Sep 10, 2007, at 9:57 PM, David Karchmer wrote:

>

> > Yo Z'ev,

> >

> > I'm pretty sure that post was sarcastically mocking the ABORM.

> > Not to be taken seriously.

> >

> > Correct me if I am mistaken YC

>

>

> Chair, Department of Herbal Medicine

> Pacific College of Oriental Medicine

> San Diego, Ca. 92122

 

[Guest guest]

I wrote a draft something like this. Since Zev said it so eloquently. Just

weighing in - I agree with this post.

 

Someone else mentioned studying with Randine Lewis and Jane Lyttleton. I have a

friend that has studied with RL. Isn't that enough? Also I know people who

treat on the patterns and/or the element and have success with fertility issues.

Of course, we have to have an understanding of the western diagnosis, but we are

Chinese medicine practioners. We should be diagnosing and treating as such. I

think certification boards are a dangerous trend.

 

We are really worried about the wrong thing here. I am hearing on another site,

that an insurance company in Wash D.C. will only reimburse Medical

acupuncturists. This was a reverse from their previous position. Somehow

medical acupuncture is selling itself as more professional.

 

Then - the other side of the coin are the unlicensed professionals - that can do

whatever they want basically - buy lasers, creating weight loss and smoking

programs, hit cookbook acupuncture points - and whala, they are in business. No

regulation, no certifying boards. There is talk of more regulation on

acupuncturists for dispensing herbs, when a patient can buy them off the

internet, no problem. I wouldn't make it harder to be an acupuncturist given

the arena we are in.

 

Anne

 

 

-------------- Original message ----------------------

" " <zrosenbe

> If you were correct,

> Then we'd have to certify every practitioner who treats a major

> autoimmune, gynecological or infectious disorder. This is a

> pandora's box you are opening. If legally we can only treat patients

> with specific disorders by certification, it will kill the

> profession, or make us into understudy therapists. I agree that we

> need to study and be aware of as many autoimmune disorders as

> possible, and experience is important, but to require certification

> for each condition is just an absurd idea, in my opinion.

>

> I don't think that herbal medicine and acupuncture has to

> specifically be aimed at biomedical diseases in all cases. We treat

> the patterns/symptom complexes that the patients present to us. Any

> biomedical condition needs to be reframed into the logic of Chinese

> medicine for us to treat it. We treat primarily the patient with the

> disease. I support the development of specialties, such as

> pediatrics, gynecology, or autoimmune disorders. What this includes

> is biomedical data on these conditions. But this is just the

> beginning. Our diagnosis and treatment strategies do not depend on

> this data exclusively. The biomedical disease data gives us a sense

> of pathomechanisms of disease

>

>

> On Sep 9, 2007, at 9:43 PM, Yangchu Higgins wrote:

>

> > At this time, I cannot feel comfortable referring an

> > acupuncturist without VHKC (VHK certification). MDs

> > just won't take it seriously and what about the FDA?

> >

> > Yes. You've introduced an important gap in

> > integrating with biomedicine. We'll need to convene a

> > convention or something... at least a meeting. We

> > need VHKC as soon as possible.

> >

> > y.c.

> > vytalpathways.com

> >

> >

> > ________

> > Be a better Globetrotter. Get better travel answers from someone

> > who knows. Answers - Check it out.

> > http://answers./dir/?link=list & sid=396545469

> >

> >

>

>

> Chair, Department of Herbal Medicine

> Pacific College of Oriental Medicine

> San Diego, Ca. 92122

 

[Guest guest]

There's a satire from a contemporary Chinese author

called The Wall (wei-qiang). The narrative is a foray

into the " politics " of wall formation.

 

There's a certain concession that must be made

considering certifications that I'm at present not

altogether ready to make. I accept the intension of

such measures, but I wonder if it is true to the

spirit.

 

Biomedicine has difficulty accounting for the presence

of spirit. Ayur Veda, , and countless

other local practices do not.

 

Perhaps spirit is practitioners' most

important contribution to CAM settings. The industry

of Acronym Production Inc., is never ending. I think

we all agree that despite the graveness of XYZS aka

XYZ Syndrome and the PDQ of blood sedimentation among

patients who see practitioners with PDQC aka PDQ

Certifications, it all is nevertheless governed by the

principles of yin and yang. That's our medicine.

 

cheers,

 

y.c.

vytalpathways.com

 

 

 

______________________________\

____

Boardwalk for $500? In 2007? Ha! Play Monopoly Here and Now (it's updated for

today's economy) at Games.

http://get.games./proddesc?gamekey=monopolyherenow

[Guest guest]

Chinese Medicine , Yangchu Higgins

<ycmgh wrote:

>

> There's a satire from a contemporary Chinese author

> called The Wall (wei-qiang). The narrative is a foray

> into the " politics " of wall formation.

>

> There's a certain concession that must be made

> considering certifications that I'm at present not

> altogether ready to make. I accept the intension of

> such measures, but I wonder if it is true to the

> spirit.

>

> Biomedicine has difficulty accounting for the presence

> of spirit. Ayur Veda, , and countless

> other local practices do not.

>

> Perhaps spirit is practitioners' most

> important contribution to CAM settings. The industry

> of Acronym Production Inc., is never ending. I think

> we all agree that despite the graveness of XYZS aka

> XYZ Syndrome and the PDQ of blood sedimentation among

> patients who see practitioners with PDQC aka PDQ

> Certifications, it all is nevertheless governed by the

> principles of yin and yang. That's our medicine.

>

> cheers,

>

> y.c.

> vytalpathways.com

>

>

>

>

___________________

_______________

> Boardwalk for $500? In 2007? Ha! Play Monopoly Here and Now (it's

updated for today's economy) at Games.

> http://get.games./proddesc?gamekey=monopolyherenow

>

[Guest guest]

hahaha Hi David, yes you would be the one to know if ABORM was being mocked!

I hope you are able to take it easier this week. I'm pretty sure we're all

roughly on the same side.

 

Hugo

 

 

David Karchmer <acuprof

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Yo Z'ev,

 

 

 

I'm pretty sure that post was sarcastically mocking the ABORM.

 

Not to be taken seriously.

 

 

 

Correct me if I am mistaken YC

 

 

 

Traditional_ Chinese_Medicine , " Z'ev

 

Rosenberg " <zrosenbe@.. .> wrote:

 

>

 

> If you were correct,

 

> Then we'd have to certify every practitioner who treats a

 

major

 

> autoimmune, gynecological or infectious disorder. This is a

 

> pandora's box you are opening. If legally we can only treat

 

patients

 

> with specific disorders by certification, it will kill the

 

> profession, or make us into understudy therapists. I agree that

 

we

 

> need to study and be aware of as many autoimmune disorders as

 

> possible, and experience is important, but to require

 

certification

 

> for each condition is just an absurd idea, in my opinion.

 

>

 

> I don't think that herbal medicine and acupuncture has to

 

> specifically be aimed at biomedical diseases in all cases. We

 

treat

 

> the patterns/symptom complexes that the patients present to us.

 

Any

 

> biomedical condition needs to be reframed into the logic of

 

Chinese

 

> medicine for us to treat it. We treat primarily the patient with

 

the

 

> disease. I support the development of specialties, such as

 

> pediatrics, gynecology, or autoimmune disorders. What this

 

includes

 

> is biomedical data on these conditions. But this is just the

 

> beginning. Our diagnosis and treatment strategies do not depend

 

on

 

> this data exclusively. The biomedical disease data gives us a

 

sense

 

> of pathomechanisms of disease

 

>

 

>

 

> On Sep 9, 2007, at 9:43 PM, Yangchu Higgins wrote:

 

>

 

> > At this time, I cannot feel comfortable referring an

 

> > acupuncturist without VHKC (VHK certification) . MDs

 

> > just won't take it seriously and what about the FDA?

 

> >

 

> > Yes. You've introduced an important gap in

 

> > integrating with biomedicine. We'll need to convene a

 

> > convention or something... at least a meeting. We

 

> > need VHKC as soon as possible.

 

> >

 

> > y.c.

 

> > vytalpathways. com

 

> >

 

> >

 

> > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _

 

> > Be a better Globetrotter. Get better travel answers from

 

someone

 

> > who knows. Answers - Check it out.

 

> > http://answers. / dir/?link= list & sid= 396545469

 

> >

 

> >

 

>

 

>

 

> Chair, Department of Herbal Medicine

 

> Pacific College of Oriental Medicine

 

> San Diego, Ca. 92122

 

>

 

>

 

>

 

>

 

>

 

>

 

>