Guest guest Posted August 16, 2007 Report Share Posted August 16, 2007 Hi everybody, I am sorry to hear about this, about the TCM title " Dr. or Ph.D " . My good friend " Harry Potter " has a feeling about all of us, TCM , is having a fake degree. I think he is absolutely right, a fake degree. I do not even think that TCM can be considered as a technician. If we , TCM , are considered technicans as such , we are extremely lucky because we are recognized and we can have a job at least a little above the minimum wage. A technician or an AA degree in any field can transfer his units everywhere and can be accepted for a job in his degree. I know that an Electronic Assembler without experience can be hired for $12.00/ hr, experienced $14- $18.00/ hr; Electronic technician $$18.81 - $32.00/hr ; computer technician $ $18.00 -$32.00/hr ; Radiology techinican $18 - $27.00/hr same as X-ray technician. TCM with Ph.d or Dr. " degree " can get for what, how much ? $8.00/hr part-time only or even nothing, share a room or get pay 40/60. With this degree we can survive for this kind of negotiation. A front office clerk without experience can get pay for $10-$15.00/ hr FT. So why are we struggling or among ourselves or reasoning about ourselves for a title " Dr. " ? We had been ripped ? We 've been cheated. Our title or units are not even recgonized nor transferred to any school at all. Then why ask for title ? Why do we believe we are better than this , better than that... Our ego was damaged and we are defending it. I think our best position is to complain to our school for a fake degree and demand punitive damaged. They must do something about it. THere are thousands and thousands of students graduated in big debt struggling looking for a job or something related to TCM to earn a living and to pay his debts, but there is nothing for them! This is a reality. We must face this and fight this for our next generation. Or target is our school , the cheater. I believe and I truly believe it with my friend that all TCMs " most of them are Oriental, businessmen like are the keys " . Most our teachers came from foreign country " China " and they claimed that they are MD in China or claimed all kinds of titles. They are here to teach us with minimum pay. Even after you graduated and consider to teach in one of TCM school with your Ph.D degree. Will they pay you the salary equivalent to the nationwide degree? Or they will rip you off? WE ONCE GET CHEATED AND IF WE THINK THAT IS NOT ENOUGH AND GO FOR ABORM ONCE MORE TIME ??? THIS IS REALLY FUNNY ! DO NOT LET THEM FOOL US ANYMORE........ FORGET ABOUT ABORM AT THIS TIME. WE HAVE TO FIGHT. THE FIGHT SHOULD BE TAKEN PLACE IN OR FROM OUR SCHOOL. Nam Nguyen Chinese Medicine , " flyingstarsfengshui " <flyingstarsfengshui wrote: > > Hi Kath: > > I have not read all the posts but my feeling is if any group wants > to create there own organization they should be free to do so but > they should not try to gain any more creditibility by obtaining > support from organizations created to support our profession as a > whole. And I do think these " expert " groups would better serve our > profession and the general public if they were part of accredited > organizations, as they have to follow certain state or national > guidelines. If ORM wants to create the industry standard they should > apply for accreditation or secondary educational qualifications or > they should obtain CEU approval for their courses, they should not > use any Acupuncture member organization or its affilates to create a > standard that could separate its memebers from Licensed practioners. > > Regards, > > david > > > > > Chinese Medicine , " Gordon > Mullins " <gordon.mullins@> wrote: > > > > Kath, > > > > Thank you for mailing me, if anything, you mail has shown the > strength and > > passion of people on the list and their own personal views and > allows for > > open debate which is always good in my opinion. > > > > Tks Kath, > > > > Gordon. > > > > On 8/15/07, <acukath@> wrote: > > > > > > gordon: > > > > > > just a point of clarification: when i said " seem to be > qualified " i did > > > not > > > at all intend to infer that i didn't think the practitioners > involved in > > > ABORM were not qualified in ORM. quite the opposite is true, i > deeply > > > respect thier knowledge and experience in this field. i'm sorry > if my > > > words > > > mislead or offended you. > > > > > > kb > > > > > > > > > On 8/11/07, Gordon Mullins <gordon.mullins@<gordon.mullins% > 40gmail.com>> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > Kath, > > > > > > > > I respect your strong feelings on this issue, and would be > wholly behind > > > > you > > > > on the basis if an association was being formed for unethical > and bogus > > > > reasons. But I really think you need to take a second look at > the > > > > organisation as a whole, and I think you are being extremely > > > disrespectful > > > > to those involved. I feel you are misrepresenting the facts, > you use > > > words > > > > like 'bogus' and 'seem to be qualified in ORM' if the people > below are > > > not > > > > qualified then who is. You say this needs to go through > colleges and get > > > > accredited, that would be wonderful in an ideal world, but no > college > > > > would > > > > have the resources or expererience that this association has. > > > > > > > > Can you carefully look at these 'small group of practitioners' > as you > > > > describe them, to me they are 'Pioneers in ORM'. And I respect > and > > > support > > > > their energy in combining their experience and knowledge to > allow for > > > > greater education to us the many. > > > > > > > > Ray Rubio, Dipl. Ac., Dipl. CH, DAOM > > > > > > > > Dr. Rubio has been on Faculty at Emperor's College since 1999 > where he > > > > instructs students in Herbal Medicine and Oriental Diagnosis > and > > > > supervises > > > > student Interns in the Emperor's College Clinic Dr. Rubio is a > part of > > > the > > > > inaugural cohort in Emperor's College first Doctoral Program . > > > > > > > > Dr. Rubio's specialty is Women's Health, with an emphasis in > > > Reproductive > > > > Medicine and the treatment of Infertility.. He speaks to > infertility > > > > support > > > > groups such as Resolve regularly. He is a member of the > American and > > > > Pacific > > > > Societies for Reproductive Medicine, and is currently > preparing a > > > clinical > > > > trial on the treatment of diminished ovarian reserve with > Chinese Herbal > > > > Medicine in patients undergoing IVF. > > > > > > > > Randine Lewis, Lic.Ac., Ph.D. > > > > > > > > Dr. Lewis is a diplomat with the NCCAOM, is a professional > member of the > > > > American Society for Reproductive Medicine, and is on the > Women's > > > Counsel > > > > of > > > > the ASRM. She supports, lectures, and publishes articles for > RESOLVE, > > > the > > > > American Infertility Association, and medical organizations, > and is a > > > > medical expert on numerous online fertility boards. Dr. Lewis > authored > > > The > > > > Infertility Cure > > > > > > > > Sadhna Singh , Lic.Ac., M.B.B.S. (India) > > > > > > > > Sadhna Singh graduated from medical college, India in 1983. > She has > > > > practiced medicine for over 10 years in the fields of > obstetrics, > > > > gynecology > > > > and internal medicine. Then, as a Chief Medical Officer at a > hospital, > > > she > > > > further gained invaluable clinical experience > > > > > > > > Martin Herbkersman, L.Ac., D.Ac., Dipl.Ac., C.H., O.M. > > > > > > > > He is the vice-president of the Board of Directors of the > American > > > > Association of Acupuncture and Oriental Medicine (AAAOM) and > is a > > > founding > > > > member of the American Board of Oriental Reproductive > Medicine. He > > > serves > > > > as > > > > Chairman of the South Carolina Acupuncture Advisory Committee > to the > > > Board > > > > of Medical Examiners. He is also a member of the American > Society for > > > > Reproductive Medicine (ASRM). > > > > > > > > Brandon Horn, JD, PhD©, L.Ac. > > > > > > > > Brandon Horn, JD, PhD©, L.Ac. is a lecturer, researcher and > clinician > > > in > > > > the > > > > fields of acupuncture, herbal medicine and nutrition. He has > published > > > > research in Fertility and Sterility and is currently involved > in other > > > > research examining acupuncture's role in improving the quality > of the > > > > uterine lining for women trying to conceive. > > > > > > > > Dagmar Ehling, MAc, LAc, DOM, Dipl OM > > > > > > > > Ms. Ehling is the author of The Chinese Herbalist's Handbook, > which has > > > > also > > > > been published in German. She was a faculty member at the > International > > > > Institute of for five years, and served as a > New Mexico > > > > State Licensure examiner for four years. Currently, she serves > on the > > > > NCCAOM > > > > Exam Development Committee for the national Chinese herbal > certification > > > > exam, and teaches internationally to physicians and lectures > at Duke > > > > Center > > > > for Integrative Medicine in Durham, NC. > > > > > > > > Diane K. Cridennda, L.Ac., DOM > > > > > > > > Diane's research on Poor Prognosis IVF Patients is published > in the > > > > supplement of Fertility and Sterility Vol. 81 Sup 3 April > 2004. It won > > > the > > > > Private Practice Physician's award for Research. She presented > her work > > > to > > > > the Pacific Coast Reproductive Society (PCRS) in 2005 on > Improvement of > > > > IVF > > > > Outcomes by Acupuncture. She has also presented her work on > Good > > > Prognosis > > > > IVF patients to the American Society for Reproductive Medicine > (ASRM) > > > > annual > > > > meeting in Philadelphia as well as reporting to The World > Congress For > > > > Human > > > > Reproduction in Venice Italy on Acupuncture: Impact on > Pregnancy > > > Outcomes > > > > in > > > > IVF Patients. > > > > > > > > Dr. Lorne Brown B.Sc, Dr. TCM (CA), R.Ac > > > > > > > > Committed to community outreach, Lorne serves on the Health > Action > > > Network > > > > board, is an associate member of the Infertility Awareness > Assoc. of BC > > > > and > > > > a member of Capers Integrated Health Network. He has worked on > numerous > > > > boards and committees including chairing the Membership > Committee of the > > > > Traditional Chinese Medical Association of BC, and acting as > the first > > > > natural products expert for the University of British Columbia > Clinical > > > > Research Ethics Board. > > > > > > > > Wenying Lin, MD (China), L.Ac. > > > > > > > > Wenying received her medical degree from Beijing University of > > > Traditional > > > > in China. Upon completion of her six-year > program, > > > > Wenying > > > > worked at Beijing Xuan Wu Hospital where she used her western > and > > > Chinese > > > > medicine training to treat a broad range of illnesses and > diseases, > > > > including infertility and chronic pain. Wenying received > training from > > > Dr. > > > > XiaoPing Ji, an internationally renowned and respected > acupuncturist, > > > who > > > > practices in China. Dr. Ji is the co-writer of Chinese > Acupuncture and > > > > Moxibustion (CAM). > > > > > > > > Wenying was an instructor and clinic supervisor at the > Colorado School > > > of > > > > Traditional Medicine. > > > > > > > > Caylie See, M.S., L.Ac. > > > > > > > > She is published in the Journal of Clinical Oncology and is > currently > > > > completing a study on the efficacy of combining fertility > drugs with > > > > Chinese > > > > herbal medicine. Additionally, Caylie teaches integrated > anatomy and > > > > physiology at California Institute of Integral Studies and has > lectured > > > on > > > > women's health topics at UCSF. Caylie is a member of the > American > > > Society > > > > for Reproductive Medicine and RESOLVE: the National Infertility > > > > Organization. > > > > > > > > Shiao-Ting Jing, L.Ac., O.M.D. > > > > > > > > Currently on the faculty of both Yo San University of > Traditional > > > Chinese > > > > Medicine, Los Angeles and Emperor's College of Traditional > Oriental > > > > Medicine, Santa Monica; former Clinic Supervisor, Yo San > University > > > > Clinic. > > > > > > > > Dr. Daoshing Ni, D.O.M, L.Ac., Ph.D, Dipl.C.H. > > > > > > > > Dr. Dao has been active in the TCM profession as well as > professional > > > > organizations. He was an examiner for the California > Acupuncture > > > Committee > > > > and also participated in the Chinese Herbology Exam > development for > > > NCCA. > > > > Well known and respected for his special interest in > reproductive and > > > > gynecological conditions. > > > > > > > > Richard P. Buyalos Jr., M.D., FACOG > > > > > > > > Dr. Richard Buyalos is board certified in reproductive > > > > endocrinology, obstetrics and gynecology and is a Fellow of > the American > > > > College of Obstetricians and Gynecologists. > > > > > > > > With over 20 years of experience, since 1983, in ovulation > induction and > > > > assisted reproductive technology (ART), he has published more > than 70 > > > > scientific articles, abstracts and book chapters, and is a > member of > > > > numerous professional organizations, including the Society of > > > Reproductive > > > > Endocrinologists and the Society of Reproductive Surgeons. > > > > > > > > Dr. Buyalos serves on a variety of committees for both the > American > > > > Society > > > > for Reproductive Medicine and the American College of > Obstetricians and > > > > Gynecologists > > > > > > > > Paul V. Murray III, L.Ac., C.N.C., M.B.A. > > > > > > > > Paul is also the founder and clinical director of Acupuncture > > > Associates, > > > > the largest group of acupuncturists in the State of Colorado. > > > > > > > > Paul is part of Craig Hospital's Complementary Alternative > Medicine > > > (CAM) > > > > program. The CAM Program combines the expertise of Colorado's > top > > > medical > > > > doctors and acupuncturists to Craig Hospital's most difficult > cases > > > > > > > > Paul is a member of the Acupuncture Association of Colorado, > The > > > American > > > > Association of Acupuncture and Oriental Medicine, The American > > > Association > > > > of Nutritional Consultants, Advisory Board Member to the > American Board > > > of > > > > Acupuncture and Oriental Medicine, and is a founding Board > Member of The > > > > Fertility Cure. > > > > > > > > Jane Lyttleton BSc, M Phil., Dip TCM (Aus), Cert Acup (China), > Cert > > > Herbal > > > > Medicine (China) > > > > > > > > Practitioner of Traditional , Sydney, > Australia; > > > > Guest Lecturer Department of Complementary Therapies, > University > > > > ofWestminster, UK; College of Social and Health Sciences, > Chinese > > > Medicine > > > > Unit, University of Western Sydney, Australia. Jane is the > Author of the > > > > preeminent authoritative text on the treatment of > reproductivedisorders > > > > with > > > > Traditional (TCM): " Treatment of Infertility > with > > > Chinese > > > > Medicine " . > > > > > > > > I too have strong feeling on this matter, best wishes Kath. > > > > > > > > Gordon Mullins. > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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